I’ve been part of a conversation over at Professor Bainbridge’s place today:
Glenn Greenwald has done yeoman work in exposing anti-Catholic bigot Pastor John Hagee’s endorsement of John McCain and the latter’s refusal to disavow the endorsement. I agree that McCain should reject Hagee’s endorsement. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Which is why I thought Ron Paul should reject the endorsement he got from white supremacists and Mike Huckabee shouldn’t hang out with Christian Reconstructionists. Indeed, I don’t think Greenwald goes far enough. Today, he opines:ÂÂ
Neither presidential candidates nor anyone else should be held responsible for the views of those who support them, unless the candidate seeks out that support and/or expressly welcomes it.
At the risk of stretching the metaphor past the breaking point,you can get fleas from dogs whether you chose to lie down with them or they chose to lie down with you.ÂÂ
Well, we all know what an honest intellectual broker his Supreme Sockpuppetiness is, so it comes as no surprise that he’s trying to create a distinction between Obama–who’s merely been a member of Reverend Jeremiah Wright’s parish for many years, rather than one who accepts the endorsement of someone who expresses hateful views. And Maverick really ought to have rejected the endorsement of this Hagee moron, and knowing what an upstanding guy he is, he very well might . . . after the Texas primary.
But when I expressed my deep skepticism regarding Greenwald, stating that I’d take him seriously when he expressed the same sort of outrage towards Wright that he does towards Hagee, I was answered with intellectual and ethical bankruptcy:
I’m betting Obama is just scared to death of the great Dan Collins and his propaganda machine.Let’s face it, the GOP has been sucking up to insane morons like Hagee for over two decades. Saint Reagan started it, and Dumbya Bush’s complete incompetence has finally given rational people a voice – and we’re saying that it’s time to kick the dingbats out of the seats of power. No more Robertsons or Dobsons or Hagees. (Falwell isn’t missed at all.) Go ahead, try to link Obama to Farrakhan. It won’t work. All of your wingnut fantasies have been stripped away, and this is the year you’ll pay for ever entertaining them in the first place. I can’t wait for November. It will be glorious on Election night. I’ll have two TVs going – one on Fox so I can watch the Great Wingnut Meltdown.
Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus on 03/01 at 06:41 PM
There ya go. This is the voice of “rational people,” I guess.
But as happyfeet points out psycho pointing out (and as Allah Pundit notes), the publicizing of scandal regarding Maverick and the Moron has opened the door to apply the same standards to Obama, the fundamental difference being that Obama’s membership in this church is significantly less casual than McCain’s relation with the Texas pastor.
As Allah Pundit points out, this audio has been available for some time, and was the basis for some of an article in Rolling Stone, which featured excerpts. What makes it different this time around is that Barack is no longer a long-shot candidate.
So, I’d like to thank Gleen(s) for opening the door. Yo, man.
huh, that’s an interesting spelling of Farrakhan. w-r-i-g-h-t. never would have guessed.
Here’s another good one, Maggie.
If McCain wins, where will the riots start? Berkeley?
m, unless the candidate seeks out that support and/or expressly welcomes it.At the risk of stretching the metaphor past the breaking point,you can get fleas from dogs whether you chose to lie down with them or they chose to lie down with you.
It is hard to reject every weirdo that supports you.
What’s interesting about Obama and Wright is that Obama really is a supporter of Wright, not just the other way around.
Barack is still a long-shot candidate. He’s running for president of the wrong country I think.
I haven’t really looked into it much, but in the video clips I have seen Hagee appeared to discussing the Catholic Church’s historical problems with anti-semitism, which I can’t really imagine anyone denying. Is there more to it than that? Is he not giving the Church credit for its current stand? Or is it just more demogoguery from the nutroots?
Bainbridge is right though. Dirty flea-ridden Christians must be condemned in no uncertain terms. You have to set boundaries. Bonk ’em on the nose with a newspaper if you have to. They’ll learn eventually.
Well, I think that the reason Bainbridge feels the way he does is because he’s Catholic and this is in the time-honored tradition of Catholic Church is Babylonian Whore and Pope Anti-Christ of Revelation stuff. You can go get a copy of Hislop if you’re really interested in this business.
The same media that’s so quick to nail an anti-Catholic bigot were nowhere to be found when Hick was running his anti-Mormon bigotry up the flagpole. Then again, Bainbridge is an oenophile, and way smarter than me. It could be that bigotry comes in varietals of varying qualities.
Oh, yeah, Stoogeboy, as I call him, a sterling example of punditry, by retromingence; seen almost daily at Douthat, Yglesias, and a handful of other websites. He makes Semantic, Data, & co; seem like Rhodes Scholars.
Hagee has much larger following than
Wright. Much more of an old testament
sort he relates current situation in Iran with Haman and the Book of Esther.
You’ll notice that Catholics weren’t digging Hick, I think, hf, and were pretty open to Romney. But in graduate school, studying Renaissance literature in English and Italian, I was in some seminars where Christian warriors really dug sticking it to Catholics, felt, oddly enough, that they were anti-intellectual, despite the fruits of that culture. They were sometimes appalled to learn, eventually, that I was an RC.
From Bainbridge’s comments:
Juxtapose that with Ric yesterday…
It just seems to me that Bainbridge’s dudgeon leaves a little baby crying in the dirt while the bathwater puddles around it. I think Ric is right that the question that overarches this conversation is:
Think about that, and then reflect on “liberation theology,” and have a little sympathy maybe for a pitiful amateur like Hagee.
I posted this over at Bainbridge’s. I think it’s right, so you guys get it, too:
As regards that last — does Hagee strike you as somebody who’s going to go into hiding, licking his wounds?
I didn’t think so. Me, neither.
Regards,
Ric
Thanks, Ric. It’ll mean money for McCain, too, I bet.
Not this paycheck it won’t.
With your concern trollery, you are pushing people like me ever more towards McCain, simply to poke you in the eye like he does so well. Quit harping on this phony religious stand-off; Obama is a member of a freaky church, and McCain is endorsed by a freaky christianist goof.
Yah, what? What is your position? You guys have assumed the plaintive bendover even earlier than I thought likely
Oh noes cynn, please don’t vote Republican. For my part I take it all back.
What’s my position, cynn? I think that both of them should be made to articulate where they stand with respect to the manifest idiocies of both “Reverends”. I intend to do what I can to see that that happens.
Was that supposed to make sense?
feets is right as usual.
not this paycheck, lulz
give mccains recent lobbiest problems….i seriously dont think u guyz wanna open this can of worms.
In “Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude To war†Hagee has stated that Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves by rebelling against God and that the Holocaust was God’s way of forcing Jews to move to Israel where, Hagee predicts according to his interpretation of Biblical scripture, they will be mostly killed in the apocalyptic Mideast conflict Hagee’s new lobbying group seems to be working to provoke and which John Hagee believes to be a necessary precondition for the “Rapture†that will lift Christians, but not Jews, bodily into Heaven to enjoy physical immortality amidst paradise.
Christians For Israel lobbies for increasin the territorial borders of Israel and bombing Iran.
Dan: With respect I think it’s irrelevant. I don’t care that the next leader of my country has issues with his or her religion. I just want them cleaned up before assuming office. It can be done.
Hagee’s theology, it’s kooky and really of dubious applicability to the political sphere. A lot dubious. Wright’s theology was crafted to dovetail perfectly with a political expression.
That’s what I mean by Hagee being an amateur, and in the context of the campaign, it’s a huge difference between the two I think.
Thanks for the respect, but I don’t dig having my religion or intelligence insulted by either one. And with all due respect to the candidates, I don’t care to countenance this sort of bigotry any more than they do the dreaded middle name calling.
“Was that supposed to make sense?”
That’s to cynn.
Ok, but I swears it’s the economy, estupido. Just to be presumptuous I’d say that’s a lot cynn’s subtext as well. Hey. Did you know Hagee is married to an Hispanic?
Oh. I didn’t know he had that lobbying group. Guess Hagee’s turned pro.
No, it sure as hell did’nt.
Seriously, nishi, you have no room to be attacking anyone’s religious beliefs.
??
im a sufi mu’tizhilah.
wat have we ever done?
Cynn, I would rather not, really I wouldn’t. As long as we’re on dog metaphors, the correct thing for a sleeping one is to let it lie, right? And do not assume that I’m a follower of Hagee’s; I’m most emphatically not. But I have neighbors and friends who are, who don’t say “have a nice day” but “have a blessed day” — I’m far enough from San Antonio that they aren’t going to Hagee’s church, but, well, I filled up the car last Wednesday, and I could drive to three similar churches without stopping for gas, and that’s not counting the fifty or so smaller ones I’d pass on the way.
And it is a political issue, and an important one. It’s fairly important to the Democrats to split up the Reagan coalition of social conservatives, mostly religious, and fiscal conservatives; they have determined to do so by demonizing the religious, trying to establish that a Republican cannot accept the endorsement of a religious figure. In the process, like all Democratic Party tactics, they have ignored the collateral damage. They apparently believe that if they render that population politically impotent, it will simply go away.
Go where?
We’re talking about roughly a tenth of the American population, about the same as the number of blacks, something like three times the number of self-identified homosexuals. They are being told that they are worthless, that their votes aren’t welcome, that they are not permitted to participate in the political process; that their endorsements are supposed to be the kiss of death for political success, and their aspirations and programs will be rejected with contempt.
I have already been visited by proselytizers at my little store downtown. Already — has it been a full day yet since this blew up? I didn’t give them anything. They’ll be back, though. And the mainstream churches, predominately the Southern Baptists, are seeing defections. Megachurches aren’t considered a “denomination” with a particular catechism, and currently each one is politically, doctrinally, and financially independent. Keep an eye on the news the next few weeks. They’re more similar doctrinally than they are different, and if you start seeing moves toward alliance and consolidation, worry. Worry hard. There has been a big move in the last few years toward breaking up classical denominations in favor of independents — there are three of them within a couple miles of my house, with congregations in the low hundreds; our county is around 30K, for perspective. One of those three is part of what is really a consortium that buys surplus/overstock food from distributors and passes it out, free or at a cut rate depending; that consortium could easily turn into a doctrinally separate denomination, and a lot of the others would join.
The demonization is already generating sotto voce pushback. People don’t cuss as much as they did; I see fewer and fewer faux-Satanist necklaces and more and more crosses; “have a blessed day” is now something like one out of twenty where I never heard it before, say, two years ago. And how about Goths with Crusader tabards, and body piercings showing off crosses and Christian fish? Recent sightings, both.
For extra credit, discuss the relationship between what I just described and the Right Reverend Michael Huckabee.
Oh, and worry. Did I tell you that?
Regards,
Ric
look.
rasmussen market poll.
the republicans will loose the general if they cant get the theocons to vote mccain.
mccain pissed off the theocons like he did a lot of other ppl.
hagee is a step back into their good graces.
ric gets it:
In the meantime, there’s what you might call meta-policy  the attempt by Democrats and their Press stooges to break up the Reagan coalition by demonizing Christians and insisting that candidates are only acceptable if they repudiate Christian ideals and theology. Hagee’s an easy target, a fat little fraudster with a Millenialist message whose congregation comes for the delicious thrills of a horror movie they make in their own minds  a Red State tradition that goes back to the Founding Fathers or earlier.
except……..mccain broke up the devils bargain when he called Dobson and Robertson agents of intolerance.
those guyz are a lot revengeful i think.
hagee is mccains humble pie.
sry
rasmussen market poll
mccain cant repudiate Hagee.
and the MSM wont let u parallel hagee and wright.
never happen dan.
sry.
u know what happens whenu invite the vamphyre into the house.
u become vamphyres.
Here’s a nifty guide to the Mu’tazilah. It’s really quite charming. My favorite so far is the part about the chimps and the crocodiles, but for real – if this page has any merit – I think there’s a lot there most of you guys would agree with.
Oh, pray to the God of your choice, the economy is collapsing. Did any of you whipsmart vangaurds notice this?
Nishi, you go ahead and comfort yourself with your oversimplified generalizations.
For the rest: Rasmussen hasn’t got a clue. They don’t even know which questions to ask.
Hint: Dobson and Robertson, et. al., are irrelevant.
Hint: The little independent church, in an ugly WWII-surplus pine building not far from my house, draws a noticeable fraction of its congregation from the habitues of the Mexican restaurant across the road — a restaurant run by recent immigrants and something of a watering hole for others in the community.
Robertson and Dodson are agents of intolerance. Hagee would agree with that. The last folks who wished me a blessed day were a black couple. You need to examine your categorization; it’s a trifle simplistic.
Regards,
Ric
sorry, that was in reference to another blog.
I am totally on board with the ISO date format too.
And you can’t repudiate Tariq Ramadan.
They shouldn’t; the relationship between Obama and Wright is much, much closer than that between McCain and Hagee. Didn’t Obama dedicate a book to Wright?
Ric — it’s hopeless. Nishi and cynn are operating on the basis of their bigotries, and those bigotries are fundamental to their self-definitions. They are X because they are not Y, and no evidence that Y doesn’t precisely match their predefined notions will ever penetrate.
umm….feets..u mebbe shud check source on that.
a mu’tazhilah is a grrl mu’tazhili.
your link looks like a spoof site written by islamophobes i think.
that dont know arabic bte.
ric i really like the markets poll.
its based on economics and bidding theory.
i think it is the most accurate polling model out there.
i stand by my vamphyre modelling.
Oh. Actually it looks like a very sweet précis. I didn’t find anything that suggested it was being disrespectful or I wouldn’t have linked it. I’m kind of disappointed really that that isn’t the real deal. Darn. And also it’s just the wiki page is really kind of a slog.
Yeah, cynn, the economy is going down. It did, after all, go up before. It’s just like airplanes: the number of landings will always be equal to or greater than the number of takeoffs.
There are three things going on, primarily: the price of fuel; cleaning up after the latest failed Populist experiment; and the knowledge by the financial community that the next President will be either a Democrat or a RINO, with consequent attempts to discount the results. Nobody in the race is offering anything except ways to make things worse, differing only by how fast and which part they intend to smash first. What’s to debate?
Regards,
Ric
Rob, you need to pay attention. cynn and nishi are entirely different. Don’t lump them.
Regards,
Ric
with respect, ric, But there is the mortgage collapse and the credit disaster. Surely you can’t be that dumb
I’m not feeling the credit disaster. The fuel thing a little, but that’s cause the price is so high. They’ve been practically giving away chocolate at Ralph’s though.
im sry if its simplistic ric.
it is just so obvious to me.
robertson and dobson do matter.
that is why Huckabee.
The mortgage collapse and the credit disaster are the same thing, and are what I was referring to as “…the latest failed Populist experiment.” Briefly, the Government required lenders to lend to people who couldn’t repay the loans, and the financial industry shrugged and worked out ways to make money off the stupidity. Now the crows are coming home to roost. It’s a problem, with our beloved political and bureaucratic classes moving rapidly and diligently to turn it into a disaster. The correct action — leave it alone, let it bleed to clear the contagion — cannot be contemplated.
Regards,
Ric
nishizono-chan,
I have more than a little tolerance for your general foolishness. In part, this is because I have a great appreciation for Japanese culture and you manage to co-opt some of it from me. There seems to be a curious and quick mind in there as well. In this spirit, I should like you to consider that you appear rather like Nasrudin’s ass when you issue forth about whom “gets it”. For that matter, your putative status as a Sufi is more of the same. I feel quite confident suggesting that there are a not insignificant number of Sufis/Ishmalis/Hashishins that would find such a pronouncement by an ephebic naval-gazer to be quite brazen and offensive.
It seems clear that you aspire to and possibly could make some useful contribution here and elsewhere. As it stands, you elicit collective face-palms and eye-rolls (when you’re not eliciting machinations to get you excommunicated.) That you seem to consider this some kind of badge of honor is only more testament to your neophyte intellect.
Otto: Apes don’t read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don’t understand it.
ãŒんã°ã£ã¦ã„ãÂÂã¾ã£ã—ょã„
Verse, nishi? Advice: don’t change your name to Ralph Waldo.
The megachurches are growing, not least on the perception that Robertson, Dodson, and company were ineffective. McCain’s a politician. He picks the strong horse. This is news?
Regards,
Ric
We’re talking about roughly a tenth of the American population, about the same as the number of blacks, something like three times the number of self-identified homosexuals. They are being told that they are worthless, that their votes aren’t welcome, that they are not permitted to participate in the political process; that their endorsements are supposed to be the kiss of death for political success, and their aspirations and programs will be rejected with contempt.
Be worried.
sooooooo…..are u sayin trent reznor is right, ric?
and we all gonna be living in a realitytv version of the Handmaid’s Tale?
can i be feets handmaid if it comes to that?
or Dans?
i find the rest of u somewhat lacking in the sense of humor department.
The megachurches almost all have schools, too.
“Comment by nishizonoshinji on 3/1 @ 8:59 pm #
??
im a sufi mu’tizhilah.
wat have we ever done?”
Sufis in the collective? Nothing that I know of.
You, on the other hand, are a bigot.
cf.
malaclypse-sama
for ur sufi acquaintances, yes, brazen i am.
I’m familiar with The Handmaid’s Tale, nishi. It’s good shivery fun, a nice reinforcement of Teh Narrative, and about as relevant to Hagee & Co. as a treatise on astrophysics.
I repeat: you’ve cast them out, declared them anathema. Where do you suppose they’ll go?
Regards,
Ric
Nishizono-chan,
Your post and general idiom put me in mind of a couple quotations. To wit:
“The greatest mistake is trying to be more agreeable than you can be.”
– Walter Bagehot
“First there is a time when we believe everything, then for a little while we believe with discrimination, then we believe nothing whatever, and then we believe everything again – and, moreover, give reasons why we believe.”
– Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
ä¹¾æ¯!
It’s not nearly as good as Lady Oracle, though. That’s her masterpiece.
On holiday? I keed.
Ah, The Handmaid’s Tale. Interesting piece of SF, shite piece of political science.
I don’t know anything about this Hagee guy, but I completely reject Dan Collins’ assessment. “You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.”
What an ancient idea. Don’t you know anything about science, Dan? Progress? What he SHOULD have said was, “You lie down with dogs, make sure to put on some flea powder.” Someone just needs to dust McCain with some flea powder. Problem solved.
Ah, The Handmaid’s Tale. Interesting piece of SF, shite piece of political science.
It didn’t work as SF, either, at least not for me.
A world where the US falls into the hand of a totalitarian government, but Canada is somehow still Just Fine?
Sorry, can’t suspend my disbelief that far, not even with a space elevator.
“And how about Goths with Crusader tabards”
Really? That’s pretty cool.
But I don’t wanna watch VeggieTales no more. Can we get DirecTV? Pleeeeease? I promise I won’t watch nothing with Satan.
Muahahahahaha
Nothing galvanizes a religion like persecution.
For proof, Google “Global Warming Deniers”.
I have neighbors and friends … who don’t say “have a nice day†but “have a blessed dayâ€Â
Exactly. And they by God mean it. Even though I am a hopeless, agnostic, drug abusing sinner they still fucking mean it.
The idea that this is more threatening and crazy than sonuvabitches who blow themselves up in crowded schoolyards… well, good luck selling that shit in the real world.
Lady Oracle is saying she was demonically possessed during her writing and her life is lucifer’s until, before she kills herself, her life seems to come together.
Oracle is in the bible with device until it was removed in the new version. The oracle, not the one at Verizon that runs all the telephone equipment, is like us seeing with our eyes closed when we dream and don’t have the compromise of REM. We’re damned while we sleep and, especially during the Clinton years, during the day. The bible talks about visions. These would be damned people describing what they are seeing in the future using lucifer’s eye or the oracle. So, that we aren’t damned by lucifer daily, the body, the device might be a TV set at the UN. Instead of being used and being forced to see, a TV would be the answer. We can see things and stare through eyes and ears. The device was invented by Satan to control lucifer’s creations or the space aliens everyone thinks are nice and here to help us. The space ships have to be created also and that’s where luciferians get confused about Satan and lucifer. Lucifer goes after the human body and Satan does not. The TV, like the space ships and the device, is designed to control lucifer’s creations as they use time and visit the earth, God’s only creation. So, at the UN we have this TV that can stare through heads and hear through ears while the human travels through time without really using the body like non human luciferians do. So, Satan controls lucifer’s creations through that device. Now, humans, having made the deal with the devil for the technology or hardware and not the luciferian created things, travel through time and exist in God’s only creation as what? Deals with Satan are bad.
Fleas get in your hair. Your hair is on your head. Your brain is in your head. The fleas may be ‘making’ your life and are difficult to get rid of; allot like lucifer they are thousands of psychopaths interested in you forever.
Where do you suppose they’ll go?
they shud have their own political party and get the fuck out of mine. :)
Allapundit says social cons….pfft.
call em wat they is….theocons.
better yet us constitutionalists and libertarians shud secede and leave the theocons the republican party, since it is really the New Tribulation Party any more.
Democrats hate Christians too much I think for them to cleave. Evangelicals have toyed with the idea, sure, but McCain I think could be something of a crucible. They will, I think, take their own political measure, weigh their dissatisfactions with McCain, and in the end, the palpable hate and contempt Ric talks about, will forge a resolute opposition. Hick’s speeches upon his withdrawal and at the convention may be the most important speeches of this cycle I think. We’ll see I guess, but my measure of Hick is that he’ll play an amazingly constructive role before this is through.
But the crucible part… it’s a prededent that should give Democrats great pause should it occur, cause I don’t think they think of these guys as being very sophisticated. That’s just my sense.
Oh yeah. That’s a relatively recent measure of Hick. The SNL thing I thought was insightful though.
oh. *precedent* I’m just up cause I’m being melodramatic about walking my lease down to the office. A whole nuther year of my one God-given life with this carpet. Ok. Fine. When I get back up I’m having a drink though.
i stand by my vamphyre modelling.
Okay, time out. There are 2 words in that sentence that are purposely misspelled and they each contain an extra letter. nishi’s explanation for her wacky writing style has alway been expedience, and yet, our large-brained, tiny-breasted friend is now adding crap.
Also, to type “vamphyre” instead of “vampire” you must drop down to the middle row to enter the “h” – more time wasted.
In fact, if we consult the Missuz-a-Wiggins Guide to Faster Typing, it clearly states that adding letters to words will slow you down.
.
.
checkmate
oops
B-but, just think of all the valuable seconds she shaves off of every day by avoiding the shift key!
tooshay
And then be sure to say “Booga, booga!”
That way, people will totally get it.
I bet all of those poor unwed mothers who were given a place to live and give birth to their babys miss Falwell. I bet Glen Greenwald never did that. I bet those other cocksuckers (Am I being redundant) did that. I bet Barry Hussein Osama never did that. Just sayin.
#71
It’s just her way of drawing attention to herself.Children need a lot of attention. Like the red wig and plether outfit.
On the contrary Barach ‘don’t mention his middle name’ Obama believes his vote for Planned Parenthood and “the Negro Project’ is a brilliant economic plan designed to help stop poor unwed mothers from breeding poverty.
Again, more evidence of your base ignorance. There are social (or cultural) conservatives, economic conservatives, and religious conservatives. The difference between a social and a religious conservative is more one of inspiration and degree, but it’s real.
hahahaha
Hagee is a religious conservative??????
OMG!
i see absolutely nothing conservative about seating a theocon on the supremes.
Murdered the English language, for starters.
it is radical.
i just watched MTP and the repub strategists were very quick to paint Mccain as proLIFE!
i think that dog wont hunt, once he is asked about Schiavo and ESCR and his other actual votes.
A Muslim really has no business trying to lump all traditional conservative American Christian sects together as “theo-cons” when a vast portion of her chosen faith are always whining about being associated with the Salafist/wahhabi supremacists who like, you know actually really WANT a religious state under Allah and are in control of the majority dogma coming out of Saudi Arabia and who actually do kill unbeleivers and apostates.
That was just mean, SGT Ted. True tho’.
Ah, but nishi refuses to be lumped in with the majority of her fellow Muslims. That she continues to confuse the Christian identity idiots with average conservative Christians is, as she would say, teh ironee.
an yes i used vamphyre to make it more scary.
xian is neutral for me.
u honestly think judeo-xianity somehow is nuturing of freedom?
all religions are anti-freedom.
they tell ppl wat to believe, wat to think, how to act, wat to eat, how to dress.
and all religions only benefit members of the memetic tribe.
our republic is an attempt to form a meta-tribe, to neutralize the tyranny of religion so that homo sapiens sapiens can actually achieve freedom of thot, freedom of speech, and freedom to chose whichever religion they want, or to chose no religion.
nishi was interesting for a time, but she has descended into incoherent idiotic bigotry when it comes to Christians. I’m not a Christian but I know bigotry when I see it.
I think if nishi randomly removed every third letter, on average, her comments might be just as interesting.
theocons are political xians.
i dont care wat beliefs particular xian sects hold.
i resent theocons using the political process to impose their particular religious beliefs on the rest of the republic.
She also makes the mistake of using identity politics as a framework, when she forgets that American Civil Rights is guaranteed by the same God that she trashes, as opposed to the “international rights” that are gifts handed down from the UN elites. The purpose of the no-State-religion clauses isn’t to creater a “meta-tribe” it’s to guarantee individual liberty and freedom of conscience.
nishi stereotype all politically active Christians as theocrats, more bigotry.
I don’t care what beliefs particular muslim sects hold.
I resent them using Damask Steel to impose their particular religious beliefs on the rest of the republic.
u honestly think judeo-xianity somehow is nuturing of freedom?
That is such a profound ignorance of history I really don’t know quite how to respond.
and the supreme irony of u all sayin i cant complain cuz im a muslimah, is that the theocons are actually advocating shar’ia for America.
Shar’ia is the encoding of religious law.
i am a citizen first.
my citizenship trumps my religion, my race, my sex.
can u say that, theocons?
“u honestly think judeo-xianity somehow is nuturing of freedom?”
Compared to every other religion and ideology that has come along over the past two thousand years? Yep.
no you cant..you want representation for your religious values.
u want your particular religious value to be made law.
that is the definition of shar’ia.
nishi seems to think that this election is all about her. Schiavo? Puhleeeez. She’s been dead for how long now? And the McCain angle on the issue is what?
So that would make you anti-freedom, eh mu’tizhilah?
This 3 trick pony thing is awfully tedious, nishi.
mikey, we have a republic, not a theocracy.
we are free inspite of judeo-xianity, not because of it.
it seems to me that the theocons want to make our republic into a theocracy.
just like Iran.
Pablo
O brought up Sciavo…i think it will be an attack, he will try to make Mccain say how he voted.
i am a citizen first.
i dont want my religion convolved with government either.
No, that is Islam. Sharia is merely the code. Ever notice how all of the actual theocracies are muslim?
I like this game – it’s sort of like six degrees of Kevin Bacon. Conservative have for years been directly seeking relationships with the likes of Hagee, Robertson, Fallwell and BJU, yet somehow this is balanced out when Obama knows someone who knows someone who’s objectionable.
That said, I don’t care for a lot of the things Wright has said, but there is an issue of degree. The names I mention above are far more extreme than Wright could ever hope to be. They ARE Farrahkans, wrapped in an equally crazy and vapid ideology that substitutes the hate for different groups.
Well, since neither of them voted and she’s long dead, that would be pretty silly.
Ever notice how all of the actual theocracies are muslim?
Hammer. Nail. Head.
Ever notice how all of the actual theocracies are muslim?
what does that have to with theocons here tryin to make our republic into a theocracy?
i dont think that is right, but it doesnt excuse theocons inserting religion into politics.
and i dont live there, im an American.
im more concerned with how theocons think American shud be a theocracy.
Conservative have for years been directly seeking relationships with the likes of Hagee, Robertson, Fallwell and BJU
And liberals with Castro, Che, Mao, Ho, etc.
and how theocons have subverted the republican party.
It’s about everybody being represented. poeple that believe in god and those that don’t.
The constitution says”Congress shall pass no law respecting the establishment …………etc,etc.” it doesn’t say you can’t believe.
I think you’re a little too hung up on who’s a christian and how powerful you think they are. You’re a classic bigot. Also not very honest.
steve, I like this game too. Liberals have been screeching for years about conservatives seeking the support of evangelicals/preachers, trying to paint all manner of ugly scenarios based on them (see nishi, for example) but now that a progressive has his very own long time pastor and oft noted spiritual adviser with some very disconcerting ideas, we’re all supposed to ignore it as irrelevant.
Ha ha! Not. Let’s play. :-)
It ain’t gonna happen here. That only happens in Islamic countries. And speaking of theocons, you ought to tell your boy Doug Hooper to STFU.
“And liberals with Castro, Che, Mao, Ho, etc.”
Who. Find me Dems who’ve allied themselves with those people.
Which is why Huckabee won the nomination. Oh, wait a minute…
im an American
North or South?
“ut now that a progressive has his very own long time pastor and oft noted spiritual adviser with some very disconcerting ideas, we’re all supposed to ignore it as irrelevant.”
Ignore it as irrelavent? Yeah – some unknown indy blogger named Tim Russert brought up Obama’s non-relationship with Farrakhan at a nationally televised debate. It’s totally being ignored.
it is fine for ppl to be represented.
not fine for their religious values to made into law or lobbied.
i understand the expediency of inviting the vamphyre into the house circa election 2000.
but u can never get them to leave.
im an American
North or South?
Wow. That’s great right there.
and after a while they think they own the house.
Start here, steve. That’d be the pro-Castro Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.
You can Google more of this stuff yourself. It isn’t hard to find.
@ #110 If they were the Soviet sonobuoys in Red October, you could walk from Greenland to Iceland to the UK, without getting your feet wet.
@ #115
Nope. I liked the Barack Yaweh/Noweh Obama thing better.
You’re no Tim Russert, steve. Heh. I was talking about Wright though, who Russert only mentioned in the Farrakhan context. There’s a whole lot more worrisome about him than his NoI admiration.
For all the talk of theocons trying to take over the Republican Party and impose a theocracy here, they certainly haven’t gotten anywhere with either project.
You project too much nishi; and you really do not understand Americans. Your ignorance is palpable.
JD was trying to explain this to me. How is it that McCain is having Hagee’s beliefs imputed on him, when it is clearly not the case? But, Sen. Obama actually endorses the views and is a parishoner of Rev. Wrights. Somehow Sen Obama has manged to deflect and not answer. If this discussion is to take place at all, it should be about McCains views and Sen. Obamas views. 20 years of worshipping with Rev. Wright is telling.
We got back in our home today. JD celebrated by eating a pound and a half cheeseburger, and is now in a coma.
“And liberals with Castro, Che, Mao, Ho, etc.â€Â
Who. Find me Dems who’ve allied themselves with those people.
Here is a couple more:
http://lonestartimes.com/2008/02/13/ocf2/
http://rachelmarsden.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/december-11-2007-hugo-chavez-democrats/
That was me. I am not as practiced at this. Thanks for all of the well wishes.
For all the talk of theocons trying to take over the Republican Party and impose a theocracy here, they certainly haven’t gotten anywhere with either project.
You project too much nishi; and you really do not understand Americans. Your ignorance is palpable.
Particularly her complete ignorance of the impact of the Reformation and Protestantism on the evolution of Classical Liberal thought and the development of modern Europe and the United States. It’s incredible.
Hi, Mrs JD! Welcome home.
I don’t think the serious Obama questioning has yet begun. Once we get to the general, the kid gloves are going to come off.
lulz, they HAVE taken over the republican party.
theocons are 1/3 of the party.
and that is why u wont see Mccain repuditate Hagee, even tho hes a whackjob.
u cant win without them.
u seeeeee….if that starts, O will dissasociate from Wright.
they have discussed it.
blacks will still vote for O.
if mccain dissasociates from Hagee, the Huckabees wont vote for him.
mccain has to make his theocon bones.
O doesnt need to make his black bones.
i do think this is not fair, to treat idealogical connections of the candidates differently…
but it is the way it is gonna play out.
lulz, they HAVE taken over the republican party.
…
if mccain dissasociates from Hagee, the Huckabees wont vote for him.
If the theocons are controlling the party, why aren’t the Huckabees voting for Huckabee? Honest to God, nishi, you are not doing a very good job of convincing anyone here to give your research money.
Because of that whole perception is reality thing, you see.
“my citizenship trumps my religion, my race, my sex.”
Prove it. Go to a busy street corner and recite the pledge of allegiance.
Congrats Mrs and Mr JD! Glad to hear your back home.
I like nishi’s rules for Rethuglians – unless you totally denounce the Religious Right you are under their thrawl.
lulz, they HAVE taken over the republican party.
No they haven’t.
Not very scientific of you.
No, they’re not. Not by any definition except yours. There are vanishingly few people who want an honest-to-God (heh) theocracy; those that do are marginalized. Hell, most religious people are glad the 1st Amendment forbids the establishment of a state religion.
There are people who have their views of what’s right and proper and should be the norms of society informed by their faith. But that’s not a theocracy! If you live in a dry township because the majority of the voters are (religiously) against drinking alcohol, you’re not living in a theocracy; you’re just in the minority. Living in a theocracy means things like, oh, mandatory tithing, forced religious instruction, government-funded religious police, laws against changing faiths, restrictions on the practice of other religions, etc.
(Oddly, there are more restrictions on religious practice in Europe than here in the supposedly imminent theocracy of America.)
Nishizono-san, is there some reason that religious values are particularly bad for the country? Are you saying that if support for Israel or opposition to abortion was based on purely secular values you’d be okay with them being enshrined into law?
Values are values, no matter what source people use to justify them. Rationally, it doesn’t matter whether people believe in “Fair-trade goods” or “Environmental Stewardship” based on a sense of secular moral duty to fellow man or because God told them to, the beliefs are equally based on moral preference. Denigrating one source of moral preference as uniquely wrong is, ultimately, prejudice. You’re basically saying the moral values of religious voters, specifically Christians, render them unfit to participate in a shared civic community, whereas the moral values of secular voters like animal-rights terrorists are fine in the shared civic community despite being equally irrational (at best).
Furthermore, there’s a difference between enshrining religious values in a secular law and enacting religious law. A theocracy is a state based around religious law. You’d be hard pressed to find a law on the books that doesn’t trace it rationale to religious values.
vamphyre? is that the guy with the Pan flute?
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macalypse-
nishizono-chan,
I have more than a little tolerance for your general foolishness. In part, this is because I have a great appreciation for Japanese culture and you manage to co-opt some of it from me.
“nishi” is a fat-ass 19 socialist-apologist white boy troll who “jerks off” to anime and wants to be “transgressive”…
Cynn’s bullwhipping the collective backside with a massive McCain eye-poke. It’s all so circular I’m moving myself to my couch to collect myself.
Cynn, Love, please assure me you’re voting for Obama.