My laptop, a 3-year old hp pavilion zd7000 (which I’ve twice had repaired after thinking it was dead), is now, officially, on its last legs. In fact, I doubt very much it will last the week.
Because I do nearly all of my blogging on my laptop (I still have a Mac G5 desktop), I’m going to need a replacement. And because I haven’t been following along with developments in the computer world as closely as I should have, I am asking for your expertise.
I don’t want this thread to devolve into an Apple vs PC pissing contest, but I will say that I’m leaning (initially) toward a MacBook Pro. A couple of Dell models and at least one hp have gotten some good reviews—but as my last two laptops were a Dell and an hp (the hp has run very hot right from the beginning), I’m not sure I want to go that route again.
What I like, on first blush, about the MacBook Pro, is that it uses the dual-core Intel CPU—a change from the PowerPC. It is light, has a superb screen, and the build material seems far superior to that of some of the lesser-priced PC laptops, which use a lot of molded plastic.
Anyway, shoot me your opinions if you are so inclined. I’ll likely be reading them on my desktop—at least, if the sound coming out of this machine as I move to hit “submit” is any indication. Because though I don’t know a whole lot about computers, I’m almost certain that they shouldn’t sound like Harvey Fierstein gargling with a string of specialty beads.
I think that the iBook Duo superdrive 13” white (or whatever the larger screen would be now) is probably a better deal. You pay $200 extra to get it in black with 40GB larger hard drive. Just get cheap outdrive for dumping large files on.
Jeff, I just bought a new HP Pavilion Notebook with 2 Core Duo processor, 2 gigs of RAM and 200 gigabytes of hard disk space. It has a 17 inch screen, good speakers and a number pad built into the key pad (good for accountants like me). I bought it from Costco for $1,600, which includes sales tax. Unfortunately, most stores sold this model out over the Christmas season and I just stumbled upon a store with four left in stock.
I need a computer that is good for number crunching as well as graphics, Photoshop and the like since I do a lot of that for fun. I especially love the large screen.
Jeff, a ton of reliable stuff is here.
Yeah, my hp is one of the first generation widescreens, and it has the full keyboard. Tell me, does yours run hot on you?
If I go for the MacBook Pro I’ll likely get the 17” screen, though I may just stick with the 15.4” I have now if the savings is considerable.
Since I am a Mac guy, you know which way I lean.Just too much damn power in these things to go back to pc..Sorry….
I’m typing this from a Titanium G4, which is great.
I wish I were typing this from a MacBook Pro.
I am sooooooooo glad I’m not running windoze. Of course, with the MacBook Pro, you can boot windoze native, if you had to.
DFC!
Go for the MacBook Pro with the 17” screen. Get as much RAM and hard drive space as you can afford. Best laptop around.
Whatever you do, do not buy a Dell. I used to have great experiences with Dell, but my most recent Dell laptop (an Inspiron E1505) died a couple of months after I got it. “No problem,” I thought, “I got that cool ‘next-day (including nights and weekends)’ service plan.” Apparantly, “next day” to Dell means about 1.5 months, because that’s about how long before a technician finally made it out to my office to fix things. Now, once the tech actually showed up, things got fixed pretty quickly, but still…
I did evaluate the MacBook Pros when I was deciding what to replace my old laptop with, but I decided against the MacBook because almost all of the work I do on my laptop is Windows-related in one way or another. If I went with the MacBook, I’d either have to spend the $$$ to replace the Windows software with Mac equivalents, or run a dual-boot OS-X/Windows XP system. My experience with dual-boot systems (every computer I’ve owned up to my current laptop has been a Windows/Linux dual boot) is that one winds up using one of the two operating systems almost exclusively, making the other essentially a waste of disk space. Furthermore, it’s always a pain to switch between the two of them, and invariably some file that one needs is always located on the other OS.
So my advice is that if you’ve got lots of Windows software already or you need to do Windows-specific things, then stick with a PC. If you’re free of these constraints, the MacBook is definitely worth a look.
Incidently, Jeff, one of the ten most trusted PC editors in the on-line sector runs a high-end Mac for daily work. Saw him on it less than two weeks ago. I’m guessing that’s not unique, either.
About HP’s, my only experience has been that they have nasty versions of Windows with all kinds of poorly thought out and needless programs preinstalled. Can’t even format them and start over fresh with OEM copies. Not unlike IBM’s laptops (which I use.) If you must use proprietary versions of Windows, at least consider Dell (with Tom’s experience factored in). My three desktops run OEM copies of Windows only.
Other high-end laptop brands include some of the Toshiba and Panasonic offerings.
Just my $0.02…
I like both Macs and PCs, but this word of warning on the PC side: Toshiba makes some gorgeous computers, but don’t go there. I had two catastrophic failures, the second two weeks out of warranty. Too pricey to take the risk.
Generally, my experience with Dell customer services has been very good, however a note about formatting your hardrive (if you’re into that) is needed:
First, after two years (and while the lappy was still under warranty) I had problems with my headphone jack. In short, it stopped working. They had a guy (indpendent contractor) out the next day. He made the necessary replacements in under an hour.
Second, I had power adaptor trouble (unrelated to their recall last year) and they fixed it even though the warranty had run out. (NOTE: it helps if you aver that you will electrocute yourself unless they fix it.)
However, if you’re the type who likes to format and partition the hardrive when you buy it from folks like Dell, or Gateway, or HP who put all that crap on there, take note: partitioning the hardrive will void the warranty. My dad made that mistake and they refused to service his lappy.
This info is not going to matter if you pick the Mac. So, just take it as FYI and JIC.
A brief comparison of the two here.
The Mac is more secure against virus’s, spyware, and stuff like that.
I have a first-generation Macbook. (Not the Pro.) It is very solid, and I use it as my main machine for more than 10 hours a day. It also travels with me regularly.
My only complaint is that I have the discoloration problem on the wrist rest that is common to the first generation Macbooks. However, I am unprepared to be parted with this machine for the few days it would take to have the plastic swapped out. Well, I’ve a second complaint–Photoshop is not Intel native yet. But they’re getting close to releasing a native version soon.
If the Macbook Pro is anything at all like the Macbook, you’ll be pleased with the reliability and functionality. Go ahead and get as much RAM as you can afford–2 gigs is not an unreasonable amount. Since you can run Windows, if necessary, on a Macbook or Macbook Pro, I wouldn’t look at the PC laptops unless you must stay in the $699 price range. Which you would soon regret.
If it fits your budget, you can’t go wrong with the new MacBook Pros. I’m planning on going the Core 2 Duo route this Spring, when they upgrade the chipset to allow for more than 3G of RAM. I’m kind of in an unusual situation in that I do lots of development for both OS X and Win XP. I’ve got Parallels running on a first-gen MBP, and 3 Gigs is not quite enough.
Given that irrelevent piece of background, why would you need that much power? Are you concerned about the screen real estate? If that’s not a big deal, then go for a MacBook, rather than a Pro. They’re much cheaper, and pretty much as powerful. They run the same C2 Duo processor, ‘though I think slightly slower. If all you’re really doing is blogging/writing, then you don’t need the high-end machine that is the Pro. But again, if screen real estate is an issue, then the 13” MB could be too limiting.
We’re looking at upgrading my wife to a MacBook from a 15” Ti Powerbook that is on its last legs. In the long run, though, when I get my next-gen MBP, she gets the old one, and the MacBook goes to the business. The size of the screen is going to be a big deal for her in the long run.
Also, don’t forget to price in the extended Apple Care warranty. It’s completely worth it.
Hi~
Just good to see you back, Jeff.
If you should go the PC route, I have had very good luck with a series of Panasonic Toughbooks. They are very portable, light weight, rugged and, well, tough. I even dumped a glass of water on one once. Just waited for it to dry, and no problem. Not that I would recommend doing that.
Jeff,
I”m not up on computers either.
I would probably recommend a Commodore Vic 20. I hear those are good.
Gateway’s been good to me for years.
If you go PC:
Wait until Feb 1 – that’s when Vista is released.
DO NOT buy a “Vista Upgradable” machine. You want the OS installed as clean as possible, not ‘upgraded’.
Highly recommend you get 2gigs of RAM.
I have nothing good to say about Dell, Compac/HP. Sony’s were ‘the shit’ a couple years ago I understand.
A ‘three year+’ laptop should run you about $1700.
Meaning this laptop should run anything that comes down the pike for three years.
Also, the $1700 is with 3 year part/labor, offsite repair.
Gateway determined that my 2.5 year old BIOs was bad on my laptop. FedEx’d on Tue, had it back Friday. It did cost my $40 to overnight it.
burrhog,
I don’t mean to threadjack, but are you really recommending upgrading to Vista right off the bat? I was thinking about letting them work out the bugs for a year before I even considered upgrading.
What do you think?
Nuke —
Well, I use my notebook as a portable desktop, so I like to use it for things like photo editing, video, etc. I’m used to a 15.4” widescreen on the hp, so I don’t think I’d like a smaller screen. I am not into computer gaming—I mostly just write and websurf—but I am interested in multimedia projects.
For instance, I might have to do some video and audio editing; and being able to swap between the dual G5 and the MacBook Pro would be nice.
Is the MacBook (non) Pro sufficient for all that?
Don’t overlook Amazon.com for Apple purchases; you can get a 15” 2GB Macbook Pro for $150 off the Apple list, free shipping, and no sales tax. Bought my last Powerbook there (15” G4) and will order the MBP later this month.
HP’s dv9000 series is nice. 17” widescreen, dual-core proc and two hard drives.
SB: decision86
Hmmm…
Jeff,
Before you chuck the HP, enter Setup (BIOS) at bootup using the F10 key. There is often an Advanced > Device Options setting that allows you to enable “Fan Always on while on AC Power”. This can significantly reduce overheating.
Another common cause of overheating is insufficient RAM, which forces the system to write to the pagefile (hard drive disk)when it runs out of RAM. I’d recommend a minimum of 1G for word processing & surfing.
Oh!
Another possibility: You have a defective notebook battery that is about to meltdown and scald your junk beyond all recognition.
Which, ya know, could win you some bar bets or something.
1: Avoid Vista at all costs. It’s nothing but hype and DRM and will be a big mess.
2: XP is a decent choice for the next 3 years.
3: It sounds like a MacBook Pro would take care of all your needs better than anything else.
Jeff,
If you are looking at your notebook as being a ‘portable desktop’, then you want to go with the MacBook Pro. And likely the 17” model. You’re target seems to be correct. While you can run the multimedia apps on a MacBook, the 13” screen will definitely be a hindrance.
Go for the Pro. You won’t regret it. And max it out with memory. If you’re going to be multitasking between the various tools (Safari, Photoshop, video/audio editing), then you’ll need at least 2 GB of RAM. I’d go for 3, personally.
It’ll be an expensive machine, but it will last you for years. Apple’s been incredible about making OS X backwards compatible. I challenge anyone to make Vista work well on any machine that’s older than 2 years old. On the other hand, I’ll bet the house that Leopard (OS X 10.5–due this Spring) will run quite comfortably on any G4. You won’t need to worry about suddenly having a machine that won’t run the latest OS for years.
Sorry. Hope that last bit didn’t wander into PC bashing. Like I said: I use both extensively. I’m just partial to the design philosophy behind Macs and OS X.
We dig guys who use MacBook Pros
Question: is a faster, smaller hard-drive a good idea? It shaves a bit of money off the price that I’d put toward upgrading to 3GB RAM (Apple offers the 7200 RPM 100GB drive for $100 less than the 5400 RPM 160GB drive).
Idly —
I’ve had battery troubles with the hp (I’m on my second, and the battery consistent falls out of the machine); and I use a Notepal Cooler Master to keep it as cool as possible.
It just seems to me the first generation widescreens didn’t do a good job of fan placement. Consequently, I’ve never been able to really use this as a portable machine without risking frying my beanbag.
My company uses IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpads. They are pretty rugged and have good tactile feel to the keyboards. The biggest area of concern for me and my money are reliability, and the tactile feedback of the keyboard. HP and Compaq are model dependent, and I just don’t care for Dell.
I bought a Thinkpad for my daughter a couple of years ago and it has held up fine – including a semester in Australia.
Personally, I’d stick to the lower end of the dual core processor range, and invest a little money in upping the memory to at least 1GB. Memory can usually be added fairly cheaply. Get a big enough hard drive off the bat. They can be upgraded, but it’s a non-trivial exercise in a notebook.
The ultra light models aren’t worth the extra money unless you transport them a lot.
Having said all that, I LUST for the Panasonic W-5. The new one is or will be dual core, 12 inch screen, ultra light, rugged, and expensive. But why buy one when I can use the company’s PC for free?
While you are doing your comparison’s, and if you are still keeping PC’s in mind, don’t forget Acer. I bought mine a little over a year ago, and haven’t had one hiccup. I did ton’s of research at the time and Acer offered the most for the least. They are usually in the forefront of features.
Ha – work71 – how true
According to this, you shouldn’t realize much of a performance gain for the 7200 vs the 5400RPM drive. But it might help in some cases, especially if you’re doing video or photo editing. I’d put the $100 toward more RAM, but plan to buy a large Firewire disk to use for backups and extra storage.
Just whatever you get, make sure that it doesn’t have a key on the keyboard somewhere with a flame icon on it. That ‘Exploding Into Flames’ option was not quite the killer app they hoped it would be.
More like ‘Killer Lap’.
CT —
Yeah, I figured I could add external storage later, or even use the extra Seagate I installed in my G5 for larger files.
PS: my Marine son in Iraq bought an Alienware laptop. He raves about it, and he can afford whatever he wants. For what it’s worth.
Is the MacBook (non) Pro sufficient for all that?
No. I use the Macbook mostly for programming and some design work in Photoshop. It works well for me. I have done some video editing, but very little. You’ll want the faster video of a Macbook Pro if you do a lot of video work. You’ll also want a higher resolution screen. I don’t know that I’d go to the 17” one. That is a huge monster of a laptop and you’ll not be predisposed to lugging it around. The 15” Macbook Pros are very portable.
The speed difference in drive rotational speed is minimal. You’ll want more RAM. If you’re going to do video editing, RAM is critical. Use external Firewire drives for faster and/or more storage space.
Jeff, I don’t know if my new HP runs hot. The fan is fairly quiet. My last laptop was a Compaq that I bought 3 years ago, and it ran hot and the fan made a lot of noise. But the computer still performs as well as it ever did, it’s just obsolete.
The Macbook sounds great. I have always steered away from Apple due to the price and the fact they couldn’t run IBM software. But, maybe it’s time to reconsider.
If a windows laptop is what you want, go Dell. You can get a used Dell D610 for something like $400 bucks with 1gig ram and operating system installed. These are pretty tough and it’s what I use on the road, and I am very unkind to it.
If a mac is what you want, go with the macbook pro.
But if you’re like me, getcheself a used Toshiba tecra and install the Elive CD. All your multimedia will work. Of course, I don’t use it to surf the web, I just look at it. OOOh, pretty.
Does the Mac come plumbed for a docking station? That way you could have a screen as big as you want for home use w/o effecting portability.
I prefer the keyboard/mouse on my PC over the keyboard/touchpad on my laptop. A docking station lets you have it both ways.
Go with the MacBook Pro. It loaded and it runs both Mac OS X and Windows XP like a dream. If you want to do any serious Windows stuff you will want the bigger hard disk, and you will want to download Apple BootCamp and partition your disk first thing (it may not work as easily if your hard disk gets too cluttered). You can use Parallels (latest RC version) with a BootCamp partition for most things, but sometimes native Windows just works better.
If you want any help with it drop me a line; I work in Denver and would be happy to come by.
I have a mate who makes a great living fixing Dell laptops, he reccomends the Apple on build quality, also with parallels desctop program you can run windows programs or use bootcamp and have a best looking reliable windows machine.
Sounds like Jeff doesn’t plan to go cheap, so I will steer clear of eBay tips. But you might find an educational discount to be helpful (if eligible!). E.g. (at NYU):
For PC-only, I recommend the IBM (Lenovo) line of laptops. They are the best, no one else compares (avoid Compaq, BTW). Not the cheapest. But mine is a 2000 model and runs like a watch, if slow (PIII 900MHz). You won’t cringe at the plastic, I assure you.
Among other things, on an IBM (and probably most others now) you can indeed wipe the drives because they give you a restore CD with the OS and all built in, restore with no hassles if your experiments don’t work out. The T or Z series are your best bet – the T line is the corporate standard. Among other things, components like RAM and disk are very, very easy to replace – toolless in fact. The IBMs also have a drive bay where you can swap in DVD burner, second HDD, a floppy or an extra battery. Most new machines also have flash card reasers, Bluetooth, even WWAN as options or standard.
My own decision now is whether to spend on the T60, Z61, or the Macbook 15” (right? Or are they only 13”?) Core 2 Duo with a dual boot. One thing I should say is that some of these machines (usu. the high-end ones) have superior video options, cutting battery life but increasing performance, which may matter to you. Remember that not only can you add disk and RAM, but also can plug in an external monitor, so the LCD’s size may be less crucial.
For added external storage, you can buy an external USB or Firewire case for around $20, put the biggest 3.5” (or 2.5″) hard drive you like, and go to town. You could also get a NAS (networked storage) device and all the computers in your house could share it.
Oh, and too much RAM is never enough. I wouldn’t want a machine with less than 2GB these days, 1GB IMHO the absolute minimum. More than 2GB is better. But you can always add more when you start wondering why running 200 Firefox tabs makes your machine crawl.
When upgrading, remember your laptop probably only has 2 RAM slots; if both are filled with 2x 256MB, or 2x 512MB, SO-DIMMs, you will have to chuck one or both to upgrade. Nonetheless, vendors charge so much for factory RAM that it may be better to do so than to pay them for the RAM you want.
Oh yeah, Dells areokay. BTW, I much prefer the IBM (others have it now) Trackpoint over a touchpad. Oh, and IBMs do have docks, but all of them have a video-out port.
Here’s my IT Professional stock answer I give to people who ask for advice about this kind of purchase:
If you are working with graphics, Apple is the only way to go.
If you are doing general office type work than either Apple or Intel will do, however, some things to be aware of.
I recommend Dell for anyone purchasing several systems (businesses) because of the support, warranty and standardization of components.
I reload my system about every 6 months because of the way I use it. Dell is the only thing I’ll ever (willingly) use on that account.
If you expect your installation to be more stable than really anything will do.
Gateway is good on cost but knowing what’s actually in the box can be a crapshoot.
Sager and Alienware make some screaming workhorse machines (really serious gamers use these), but again the components can be a mystery and thus hard to support.
HP/Compaq are good general use machines, but support is dismal and they do not ship restore disks with the system anymore, you have to request them. (But thank God, the SoftPAQ is dead and gone.) Component standardization is good, provided you know what the actual model number of your machine is (what’s on the case isn’t it.)
I simply won’t ask anyone to consider deliberately purchasing an IBM for personal use. Especially not a laptop.
That’s the info I ask people to consider when making this decision.
All I’ve got to say is:
I’m using a 19-month old Dell Inspiron 700m that I hauled across the country in a pannier during a four-month cycling trip this summer. I ran it off of solar power and in motels with funky electricity. It’s been up mountains in 95-degree heat, down the other side at 45+ miles an hour, bounced, jostled, and vibrated. I used on picnic tables in deep fog, at the beach, and in a tent. I still use it every day. And it’s still trooping along.
Before the trip, when the standard battery began to lose capacity after nine months, Dell replaced it and my extended battery for free.
All told, the laptop, with the standard and extended batteries, plus a full GB of RAM from a 3rd party, cost me $1050.00.
The single reason I own one. I need to use an outboard PC-slot card for some work in the field. Otherwise, I’d simply never use one…
I’ll pipe in with another Thinkpad recommendation. I speak at a lot of tech conferences, and you’ll see more Thinkpads being used by the conference speakers than any other brand, maybe as many as all the others put together. When you’re hauling your butt a thousand miles to speak to several hundred people, you really, really care about whether that machine will work when you get there. My Thinkpad has never let me down.
They do cost more, when comparing the same feature set. But not that much more.
In the “don’t get these” bucket, I’ll nominate Sony. My last Vaio laptop was an absolute piece of junk. Lasted less than two years before so much stuff failed on it that it was useless.
Oh my!
Jeff, we could hook it up to my van and blow leaves from here to Vermont. As long as we had a tractor to point my exhaust pipe, that is. Then we could call ourselves “landscapers”.
Wanna buy a 1998 Compaq with a 333 CPU? Let me know…
(I haqve upgraded my handle with a very expensive “The”. Some things just have to be taken care of…)
It is not heroic and does not make you a rocket scientist to be able to navigate around a PC. Just because they have made it so hard to use and maintain does not get you into heaven. Written on a 17” MacPro with Intel chippage.
Gotta say, I’m running a Compaq Presario V6101 and it’s working fine for me. So I had to scrub some junk programs and build my own rescue disks. gave me a excuse to rummage around on the machine. It’s basic but works great for my purposes.
I’m going the other way, away from Mac, frankly. I’m on a budget and got tired of working on outdated/used Macs. Just my sitch.
MacBook Pro, max out on RAM and hard drive if you can afford it. Also invest in Parallels. For the money, the best of both worlds if you run any PC apps that suck on the Mac (Quicken comes to mind).
I have an old Powerbook, and a MacBook Pro, and a HP Pavilion (worst customer service in the world). Go with the Pro.
For what it’s worth.
Glad you’re back.
I… I recommend a double Gibson.
…
(hic)
Caveat: I work for Microsoft.
OK, here is what I tell people.
1) If you’re not technical, and are easily annoyed, buy a Mac.
2) If you want the best bang for your buck, buy a PC.
3) If you’re a fashion slave, or are concerned what the other metrosexuals at the coffeeshop will say, buy a Mac.
4) There is nothing inherently superior about Macs other than they are a closed platform owned by Apple and Steve Jobs. If Microsoft was able to do the same, you’d see the PC equivalent of the Xbox 360. Think about that for a moment. Then imagine the antitrust cases. Eewh.
5) Vista is an amazing improvement over XP. I rarely turn off my laptop. I leave it running (put it in sleep mode when traveling) for weeks at a time. Very stable. Very cool. Very worth the upgrade.
6) Vista is very new. Therefore there is a paucity of drivers for it for your treasured 6 year old hardware. Get over it. Buy new hardware. Try and get that HP scanner from 1998 to work any better on an Intel Mac running OSx. Dare ya’.
7) Dell is no better and no worse than any other hardware manufacturer. Its just that so many units from Dell are in circulation, you are bound to hear about more complaints that you will about from Acer to Toshiba.
8) Just because someone has an Indian accent on the tech support line does NOT mean they are stupid. Let’s all remember that folks.
Summation:
1) I have a Dell 700m. Runs Vista just fine. Love it. Very sturdy and fast.
2) I have a Toshiba M4. Runs Visat just fine. Have to use. It’s OK.
3) I have used Intel Mac laptops. Just LOVE them. I cannot however:
a. Stomach inflating Jobs ego anymore than I have to
b. Conscience paying 1.5 times the price for 10 times less the selection of software
c. Understand why a sleek, aluminum cased uber-laptop makes word processing any better than dumpy plastic cased laptop from Dell
d. Stand to go into the Apple Store’s “Genius Bar†(grrrrr!) to ask those twits a question. Any question. Even if I was on fire.
4) In short:
a. Buy a Dell
b. Buy a Latitude, not an Inspiron
c. Buy it with a business quality, onsite, next day support contract
d. Buy it with Vista installed
e. Ask for a custom install, without all the custom crap they love to install on it (Realplayer, AOL, Earthlink, etc.)
f. Buy it with as much RAM as you can stick in it, and the fastest, largest HD you can afford.
g. I personally love the D620’s. Get it with a SATA drive.
If you have any questions, please email me.
Caveat: I work for Microsoft.
OK, here is what I tell people.
1) If you’re not technical, and are easily annoyed, buy a Mac.
2) If you want the best bang for your buck, buy a PC.
3) If you’re a fashion slave, or are concerned what the other metrosexuals at the coffeeshop will say, buy a Mac.
4) There is nothing inherently superior about Macs other than they are a closed platform owned by Apple and Steve Jobs. If Microsoft was able to do the same, you’d see the PC equivalent of the Xbox 360. Think about that for a moment. Then imagine the antitrust cases. Eewh.
5) Vista is an amazing improvement over XP. I rarely turn off my laptop. I leave it running (put it in sleep mode when traveling) for weeks at a time. Very stable. Very cool. Very worth the upgrade.
6) Vista is very new. Therefore there is a paucity of drivers for it for your treasured 6 year old hardware. Get over it. Buy new hardware. Try and get that HP scanner from 1998 to work any better on an Intel Mac running OSx. Dare ya’.
7) Dell is no better and no worse than any other hardware manufacturer. Its just that so many units from Dell are in circulation, you are bound to hear about more complaints that you will about from Acer to Toshiba.
8) Just because someone has an Indian accent on the tech support line does NOT mean they are stupid. Let’s all remember that folks.
Summation:
1) I have a Dell 700m. Runs Vista just fine. Love it. Very sturdy and fast.
2) I have a Toshiba M4. Runs Visat just fine. Have to use. It’s OK.
3) I have used Intel Mac laptops. Just LOVE them. I cannot however:
a. Stomach inflating Jobs ego anymore than I have to
b. Conscience paying 1.5 times the price for 10 times less the selection of software
c. Understand why a sleek, aluminum cased uber-laptop makes word processing any better than dumpy plastic cased laptop from Dell
d. Stand to go into the Apple Store’s “Genius Bar†(grrrrr!) to ask those twits a question. Any question. Even if I was on fire.
4) In short:
a. Buy a Dell
b. Buy a Latitude, not an Inspiron
c. Buy it with a business quality, onsite, next day support contract
d. Buy it with Vista installed
e. Ask for a custom install, without all the custom crap they love to install on it (Realplayer, AOL, Earthlink, etc.)
f. Buy it with as much RAM as you can stick in it, and the fastest, largest HD you can afford.
g. I personally love the D620’s. Get it with a SATA drive.
If you have any questions, please email me.
Good advice <will not say>. Steve Jobs, in and of his own self, would prevent me from ever buying a Mac. Just as Phil Knight prevents me from ever buying anything with a “Nike” logo. Successful, smart and very arrogant bastard’s. Not a rational view on my part, perhaps, but there it is.
Sorry Jeff, I broke the rules.
So, if Jobs is arrogant, what is Gates? Mr. Humble? Like the man said, if you’re technical and are patient and like to do complex puzzles, you’ll go PC. If you want to create, you’ll do the Mac thing.
Nice to know that people let ego get in the way of sound purchasing decisions. You may have 10X more software available on Windows, but 90% of it is total crap to begin with, so you’re right back where you started.
Sheesh.
To catch up a little with your questions, Jeff. You can go with a smaller, faster drive, but the speed won’t make that much of a difference, and you will need to get a good, large external drive eventually, especially if you’re doing a lot of video. I don’t know how much you are planning on doing with the Citizen Journalist shtick, but if it gets to be a big deal, then hard drive space will be at a premium pretty quickly. And if you go with dual-booting/Parallels in order to run Windows too, then you’re definitely going to need a large HD on the MacBook Pro. I’m running Parallels on an 80Gig HD, and I’m scrambling for disk space.
No, the MB Pro does not come with a docking system. No need. There are Firewire 400/800, USB 2.0, network, audio, and video ports built into the machine. Everything your heart desires. And the Pro drives the external monitor as a separate desktop (while the MacBook only mirrors the desktop on the notebook screen).
Good luck with your decision. If you have any more questions, or want to take it off line, drop me a line.
I know nothing about computers but I take my lap top every month into dumps like Bangladesh, Indonesia, China, Malaysia, Vietnam (interacting with the internationals, you know), and out of Dell, HP, Compaq and IBM the only one that has run silent and cool is the IBM- now Lenovo.
So my next one will be another IBM/Lenovo.
Plus a separate hard drive to dump all the company’s secrets on once a month, just in case.
If you’ve got the desktop for the heavy lifting, why not go with a cheap PC laptop? For a thousand dollars you can get a perfectly decent machine that will do everything it sounds like you’re looking to do, adequately. Less snazzy, way less hip, but functional and half price. I’ve got a Vista compatible, year old Acer with dedicated video RAM, 15.4” screen, and 120GB 5400RPM HDD. Had to upgrade the system RAM, but that’s easy, and cheaper than buying it preloaded.
It’s not a dream machine, but buying a dream machine laptop, if you don’t need to do everything on the laptop, seems frivolous.
I’m loving my MacBook. I’ve got it partitioned and am running WindowsXP on one side. I can run all the Windows software that I need to run on the XP side, and all the good stuff on the Mac side.
I heartily endorse furriskey and others who have mentioned IBM/Lenovo. If you’re planning to use your laptop while traveling, it’s the only way to go. Poll Southwest flight 6 or 96 (DAL to MDW, commuter flights five minutes apart) and you’ll see.
And if you’re traveling and expect to use the computer on the airplane don’t get the 17” screen because you can’t open it on the tray table and your neighbor won’t want it on his lap (he’ll have the 13” ThinkPad there). The smaller models are enough cheaper that you can also buy a 19” or 21” (or larger) screen for use at home on the extra video port.
If you’re serious about video editing, go Mac—the video is better, and as mentioned above some models let you use dual-screen rather than just screen echo on the aux port. But get the little one, and start saving for the 1080P wide-screen TV with digital input port (with, alas, DRM enabled, so sometimes it won’t work for no visible reason; you’ll soon get the hang of the proper curses and incantations to make it go; hint: effigies of Job and Gates are useful, and hatpins). You can do quick-and-dirty on the portable job, and refine it on the bigfellah with something resembling what your viewers will see.
Regards,
Ric
Jeff,
I was in the PC business for years. I’ve followed the evolution of PCs but can’t answer your question(s).
It depends. (like the old guy requires)
As someone earlier said: if you have an investment in PC software, you should factor that, or replacement cost, for the software into the cost if you go Apple.
The Macbooks materials are not that much different, but their design factors give them tighter tolerances and a more solid, compact feel. Nice. (Sort of the solid-block iPod feel.)
The Alienware aftermarket laptops are awesome, but expensive.
I finally got off desktops when I went to a 17” Compaq. It runs a bit hot, but wide-screen, separate numeric keypad, and full-size keyboard convinced me to toss my desktop set-up. For on-the-road, I’ve gone to a tablet PC (Toshiba) – thinner, lighter, longer-lasting (battery) than laptops, and handy for one-on-one meetings.
The 7200rpm drives are nice if you are doing disc intensive work – such as video reformatting, program compiling, or animating the ‘dillo; else, the bigger drive at 5600 is more useful. I’ll endorse the memory in almost all circumstances.
If what you do is surf, blog, write, and occasionally produce light-weight videos: go Mac. It’ll come with all of the software to do those functions, feels good (solid construction,) and is priced close to comparable PC laptops. If you think you might need more functionality (add-ons, software choices, etc.) then you are a bit locked in with the Mac and might want to go PC.
The 17” is great, but don’t try to travel (much) with it. It weighs a ton, and the charge pack for it is larger and weighs more as well. You won’t have room in your luggage for jogging shoes when you lug all that around.
Good luck.
Thanks, guys!
I don’t travel much (my wife does, and she uses a company-provided Dell), but I do want to be able to take the thing into my living room and, when I set up the green screen, my basement to do real quick and simple video editing on the fly.
I love the magnetic power cord on the Mac (with the little guy running around). And I already have the 1080P widescreen TV—but I’m not likely to hook into it very often.
Right now, my office is set up in such a way that I can move pretty easily between the hp notebook and the Mac. However, I don’t have a tv in the bedroom that I can see, so the 17” screen is appealing for watching a DVD with headphones while my wife slumbers.
Thanks, too, for the hard drive advice. Maybe I’ll just go with bigger (standard) hard drive and then by a faster external.
Still not set on what I want—the Lenovo’s are solid, but I like widescreen for video; and the newer 9000 series Pavilions have a lot of the features I like, but I worry about all the plastic. On the one I have now, the hard drive and the entire keyboard chassis had to be replaced, and the battery has always been a problem.
For me, portability is inside the house and out on the patio in the summer time.
I also like to write at night, so the backlit keyboard on the Mac is kinda nice—though I do like the full numerical keyboard on the hp.
Only thing is, I went to a bunch of stores tonight to look at the various laptops, and there are NONE out. I was told this is because everything they have in stock is loaded with Vista, and they can’t ring those up until the 30th.
That kind of stuff pisses me off far more than Jobs’ arrogance—that if I were desperate for a computer this evening, I couldn’t buy one. Unless I bought a Mac.
Your best bet is duo core 2 in either a Fujitsu or Toshiba from the most current standpoint. I’d recommend the Fujitsu as ther manufacturing control is one the most stringent in the industry (most components and all assembly is done by Fujitsu Japan). Another outstanding alternative but quite pricy is Panasonic, again, with complet control over 95% of the manufacturing process. Panasonic does not yet offer a “2” but they do have duo.
A more mainstream option would be the Lenovo (formerly IBM) Thinkpad. Good workhorse and I’m on my 4th with 2 still usable. HP’s are good but Lenovo is more of the standard.
Nothing at all wrong with Mac’s if you are in to that sort of thing. Wife is a graphics person and I play with hers a bit but it does have it issues dealing with a predominantly PC world. And the tend to run hot, even with the Intel chipsets.
Stay away from Dell or Gateway at all costs. Product integrity is not real assured and the manufacturing runs of components via third party often means that any service will require complete replacement of the notebook as opposed to a parts replacement. This means re-imaging the notebook and the obvious potential loss of data, files and software even with regular external back-up.
Disclosure: Macs @ home; Dells, IBMs, Toughbooks @ work.
Most laptops lately get plenty toasty, and combined with the size and usually-working-at-home situation I bought my wife a lap stand made of aluminum.
With a G5 desktop at home you can probably gauge the software upgrade experience by trying some stuff out at a retail store. Except for Final Cut Express/Pro it will likely all be in the box already and of much better quality than the free software on a Windows system. Working between two Macs will be very smooth too. As for Steve, I buy my Macs from a company not this dude.
Both Mac Book Pros come with FireWire 400 & 800 ports for adding fast external drives. In that case you can do lightweight (web/non-broadcast/non-HD) video editing easily with the internal 5400rpm drive and use an external 7200/10000rpm later if/when required. FireWire on Window systems aren’t too common, particularly 800 though you can buy PC cards. This also allows you the flexibility to move the external drive from laptop to desktop for any reason instead of network copying a few gigs of data.
Macs don’t have a dedicated replicator port but there are a few 3rd party solutions that work with the normal ports if you’re always returning to the same desk, keyboard, monitor, speakers, etc. Macs, as somebody mentioned, also tend to last longer from a performance obsolescence perspective that PCs – the main reason I’ve only bought three used Macs for myself the past 11 years (currently a B&W G3/350 (8yr old model) to be replace with a hopefully new something this year).
IBM/Lenovo does build decent stuff but it looks like they only go to 15” screens. I don’t know how support may have changed since Lenovo took over.
Panasonic Toughbooks are even more restricted in form than Thinkpads. The semi-rugged models are still pretty conventional with a bunch of nifty features (port covers, handle, touch screen) while the fully-rugged (milspec) would make a better present for Bill’s trip than a desktop replacement for you.
Dell has the full range, but to get something at the Apple’s quality you’re looking at a Latitude (15″) or Precision M90 (17″) and those will certainly be in the same price range as the Mac. The D620 (work issued), in particular, is a great unit overall and actually approaches the size/weight/thickness of a 15” Mac.
Whatever way you go I recommend warranty extension for laptops on principle, especially with kids. My wife’s Inspiron 1505 also has Complete Care (accidental damage coverage) for all 3 years too on my insistence. AppleCare is good for parts & service, but not having bought an Apple laptop I’m not sure what do do about uncovered damage (drops, closing the screen on pens, etc). AppleCare may help or it may require a 3rd party warranty or perhaps one of those nifty AmEx side benefits if purchased with a particular card. I can’t say that I’ve seen any other OEM selling anything like Dell’s Complete Care. My company couldn’t even get coverage for accidental damage on several thousand Thinkpads a few years ago.
I’d recommend a Mac Book Pro. Followed by a high end Dell. Think hard about warranty coverage and how long you plan to keep the computer. Capacity over speed for the hard drive. 2GB RAM to start, no lower.
For Jeff, and everybody (assuming you got through all that…), does anybody actually like those newfangled, shiny “ultrabright” screens? The reflections would drive me crazy!
I have a MacBook (non-pro) and I don’t love it. It is fast and has quick start up.
My battery is completely dead after just a few months (I need to bring it in, I know….)
So..that makes me hate the magnetic cord thing. It comes unplugged way too easily, and then it goes dead.
I hate it that there’s only one key for backspace/delete.
I hate not having right click.
The sound is pretty weak.
My husband has a MacBook Pro (intel) and likes it much more- the sound is better and he hasn’t had the system problems I’ve had (in addition to all the other positive things people have said above).
My son has an HP and loves it- it has enough power that he can do gaming on it. It has traveled really well and was a great price.
My opinion is, you CAN’T blog on a laptop!
Its like trying to shit on a nail head. Sure, sometimes, but its hard to aim.
Jeff,
When considering purchase of new computers, I always glance at what CNET.com has reviewed.
See here.
I usually rely on them to provide relavant price/performance ratio guidance. More often than not, the frozen Editor Pacific Northwest scenic tour guide’s tattered, frostbitten, last-grasp in desperation arm always seems to be pointing towards the proverbial laptop Mecca. That, or either the hairy Cheeto crumb encrusted JuJu Bee under the kid’s car seat.
I’m never sure which.
Anyway, from the (CNet) reviews above it looks like the Toshiba Satellite P105 has all the performance from the top-of-the-line systems, but at half the price. I would consider it too, if I were making the silicon plunge.
Good luck.
I’ve been a Mac user all my life, and have converted my wife.
My last machine was a 600 Mhz iBook G3. At the time I purchased it, it was the slowest machine that Apple produced, and the line was speed bumped a few weeks later. Despite being “slow,” it served me faithfully for many years, and just last Spring started to show its age. I upgraded to my current 15” MacBook Pro.
I gave it to my best friend, a dedicated PC guy, who was without a laptop. A short time later, however, his brother gave him his surplus 1.8 Ghz Dell laptop with XP. The next time he saw me, he gave me a demo running the two side-by-side.
He wanted to show me how much faster my old one was at pretty much everything. Granted, anything processor taxing would have been faster on the Dell, but my then 4.5 year old bottom-of-the-line iBook was much more usable in general.
I generally don’t feel the need to upgrade any Mac until it’s 4 years old at least. Keep in mind, I’m always using the latest software and OS. Each successive iteration of Mac OS X has been faster than the previous one; the older your machine, the more you’ll see the speed boost.
When you actually compare feature sets, Macs come out the same price, or often cheaper than comparable PCs. More than that, you’ll see much higher quality software in general. This post over at Daring Fireball explains it best – Mac users don’t put up with crap. We just expect more than the average Windows user.
In short, it’s a great investment.
/ignore
I do check CNet and other review sites. It’s tough to get a real read—if you read their review for the MacBook Pro, they seem to really like everything about it except that it doesn’t have a certain kind of media reader—and yet the score is significantly lower (7.3) than many of the PCs they rate much higher (and that, in the case of some comparable Dells, cost more).
And of course, looking at customer reviews, you run into the problem of Mac/PC bias. So I try to balance out all the professional reviews.
My first laptop ever—provided by my university—was a Toshiba Satellite. I’m sure they’ve improved in the decade since, but I had so many problems that I’m still left with a bad taste in my mouth.
If you want one that tastes good, Jeff, I recommend one of the old Grape iBooks. Cheap, too. Not much power, though.
Costco just emailed me this link.
Yeah. I priced out an hp comparable to the MacBook Pro and it was a couple hundred bucks cheaper. But because I’m typing this on an hp that’s melted down, I’m a bit more inclined to spend the extra money, if I can scrounge it up.
Jeff,
No Dell Hell. Just no. My company issues Toshibas which seem to take a fair amount of abuse and keep going. My govt project issued Gateways, which I like. XP is Good Enough; I wouldn’t buy Vista until a couple of service packs come out. Get as much RAM as will fit.
Not to kiss too much ass, but let me know if you go for a Dell. I’ve got an extra docking station I can ship out to you.
Actually, I’m not really kissing ass, my wife wants it out of the coat closet.
If your son is going to have access to the laptop, get the most rugged one you can find and buy the extended coverage for accidents (e.g. testing the aerodynamics of a rectangular shaped frisbee).
Unsolicited plug for NOD32 Antivirus software. Very lightweight – won’t suck up memory.
LMC–
Out of the closet?
Company bought thousands of Dell laptops for salesforce last cycle; contract called for chips made in Taiwan and many arrived with chips made in Korea, which were problematic. One of my several Dells over those years couldn’t survive a very smooth BMW motorcycle ride to New Mexico. Got me to thinking about Toughbooks.
This cycle, we have IBM thinkpad tablets – screen is too damned small, otherwise, has worked fine for several months.
Bought 2 of the kids new laptops for Christmas: one for an aspiring writer, one headed to front-line Iraq. Decided on the Dell Inspiron 17” TrueLife Wide-screen WUXGA, Intel 2 Duo processor T7200, 2GB DDR2 667MHz 2 DIMM, 256 NVIDIA GeForce Go 7900 GS videocard, 100GB 7200RPM SATA harddrive, Windows XP Media Center, 8XDVD+/-RW Drive, Soundblaster Advance Audio, Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 802.11a/g Mini Card(54Mbpps), Dell Wireless Bluetooth Module, Microsoft Office 2003 Small Business and EducateU, 4 year warranty with CompleteCare Accidental Damage Protection, LoJack software.
Reasoning was: screen big enough to enjoy video, photos, gaming. Hardware selected big and fast enough for gaming, entertainment, professional and educational applications. Software capable of full support of entertainment, educational, professional activities. Extended service and repair coverage, which one hopes to never need. While it may break, there is provision for repair. While data may be lost, a backup harddrive with auto-backup software is essential, and the unit can write to CD and DVD.
I guess bottom line, I was buying function, utility, service availability. I like doing business with people who do a lot of what they do: surgeons who do a lot of their specialty successfully, mechanics who repair lots of my make of car, computer manufacturers who make a lot computers and can repair same. I’m confident my kids will have functioning laptops for the next four to five years minimum, with capability to do all they will need.
For myself, I’m eyeing a 17” inch with Blu-Ray.
Jeff;
FWIW and VERY late, but your comment about how you use your laptop spurred this train of thought.
I, too, use my laptop as a portable desktop and my old desktop as a backup/file server. I do graphic design, production print graphics and 3D modeling and rendering (in Discreet (Autodesk) 3DS Max).
I run a Dell Inspiron 5100—about two year old, now. I have bought and used Dells exclusively at home and business since ‘95. They perform admirably and stand up to the best Apple has been able to offer down the years. When it comes time to replace my old standby, it will be with another Dell portable—probably a Precision workstation.
To establish bonafides:
I have been working on both Macs and PCs since the mid 80s in high-end, computation-intensive applications (where, as we used to say, the state of the art is barely adequate to the task).
My opposite numbers in the art department are running big G5s right now. My LAN server is a Max OS-X XServe (running dual G-5s). I do not, in short, speak from bigoted ignorance.
All partisanship aside, I think it can honestly be said that—NOW—there is no real qualitative difference between the two platforms—not one that an actual user would notice in switching between the two, being equally familiar with both. You should go with the one that makes you most comfortable.
But now, for rabid opinions: I really think HP has lost its way. The old saw about “HP” standing for “high-powered” as well as “high-priced” doesn’t apply. They seem to have swallowed whole the idea that a labor-saving device has as its primary function the minimalization of energy use and to hell with core functions or user convenience.
I wonder about Lenovo, now that the Red Chinese Army is making them.
Toshibas always struck me a little like Fiat Spyders—overrated and temperamental.
Acer seems to be Microsoft’s choice for giveaway machines in their charities (or did I read that wrong?) Which should tell you what THEY think of them.
Alien Machine has been taken over by Dell, which makes me wonder what might happen to that quirky, idiosynratic touch that made it a value brand.
Boxx is still around, but I’m hearing rumblings in the 3D community that it may have seen better days. (I have no personal experience, though.) And those things don’t come cheap.
Sony seems to think that a brazilian bucks in advertising justifies a higher price tag—and for what?
But all that’s personal opinion. Professional driver on a closed track. Do not try this in your car. Your mileage may vary. Taxes, title, dealer prep, and options not included. Void where available. Not prohibited in some states.
Regards,
M
Jeff,
Sounds like you are leaning towards Mac OS/X. That’s a great choice IMHO.
It’s based upon a time-tested OS named Unix that has proven scalibility, power, and better security than Windows. Mac made a good choice when they threw away their original OS and opted to re-write in a Unix flavor. Not unlike the open source Linux model choice made by my fellow Finn Linus Torvolds.
My preference has always been Unix, but I’m an old seasoned programmer from a few years back who learned the joys of multiple platform applications programming – IBM MVS mainframes, HP Unix Servers, and MicroSoft Windows PC’s. Each has their strengths, but each also has their relative downsides.
Anyway, if you want a stable operating system then anything Unix-based at it’s core will satisfy your desire. Mac OS/X will provide all that and more.
But, it will be at a price premium and also somewhat limited supply of additional applications for purchase.
My motto has always been to pick the machine that best fits the task(s) at hand. If you think the availible software for the Mac fits all the bills, then you have your winner.
Enjoy.
Dan,
I seen73 that was coming as soon as I hit submit.
Go with the Macbook Pro and Parallels.
My wife just bought the Macbook Pro and I put Parallels on it for her and installed a copy of MS XP that we bought a few years ago to upgrade the crappy Vaio we made the mistake of buying.
Her Macbook run XP faster than my company Lenove T-43 run Windows 2000. So basically if you go with the Macbook Pro and buy a copy of Windows 2000 or XP you have a powerful version of both a Mac and PC. Don’t bother with the bootcamp option since dual booting is a pain in the posterior. With Parallels you have an XP session running on OSX and can swap data files and do cutting and pasting between them. Another plus not mentioned is you can periodically make a copy of the few files that constitute your XP environment so that if you catch something or some application melts down the OS you can just delete it and copy over from the copy you made. No more reinstallation of the OS at all. Nothing beats a Virtual Machine if it’ll do what you need.
I also work in Denver as an IT professional in a Data Center, working with servers and storage devices, Mainframe, Unix and PC class…let me know if I can help.
Way late here…but did no one notice I said…”Not a rational view on my part.”
Of all places, I would expect folks here to read.
Jeff, since you brought up the question of HP notebooks running hot, I have paid attention to my new one. I kept it running constantly over the weekend and it never got especially warm. It seemed relatively cool (like its owner).
I sure love my new notebook. Oh did I mention it came with a TV tuner? You can watch TV on it!! Useless, but fun.
Thanks, all!
I’m torn between the high-end hp 9000 series and the MacBook Pro—with Mac having the edge
If this computer goes soon, however, I might have to settle for the hp—though a major drawback is that it only allows for 2 GB RAM (and will now come pre-loaded with Vista, which is a resource hog). I understand some improvements are upcoming for the MacBook in Q2 of this year (a change in screen lighting, which will improve both illumination and battery life, as well as cool the computer down), and I also don’t want to have to pay for an upgrade to Leopard so soon after purchasing a computer loaded with Tiger.
Jeff, if you’re still following this thread, there is every chance that in an emergency you can boot off a USB drive. Your PC is probably modern enough to have that option in BIOS. So, buy a cheap external USB drive and just pull the internal after you have ghosted over its image. Run the computer off the USB drive. (I would presume that whatever is making the noise is the current internal drive.)
If it’s not overcomplicated mechanically for your HP (it’s laughably easy on the corporate Thinkpads), you could also just buy a new notebook HD and replace the current internal one with a new internal one – dealnews.com often has ads for them under $100.