Al Qaeda’s deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri said in a video aired on Friday that U.S. President George W. Bush’s plans to withdraw troops from Iraq meant Washington had been defeated by the Muslims.
He also criticized Islamist groups, including Egypt’s banned Muslim Brotherhood, for believing in Western-style democracy and taking part in elections.
“Bush, you must confess that you have been defeated in Iraq and in Afghanistan and you will be in Palestine soon,” he said in the video broadcast by Al Jazeera television.
Jazeera said the video by Osama bin Laden’s second-in-command, which had English subtitles, carried the date of the Muslim lunar month which ended in December.
“I congratulate the Muslims on Islam’s victory in Iraq. I said more than a year ago that the Americans’ departure from Iraq is only a matter of time,” said the bespectacled Zawahri, who wore a white turban and sat next to an assault rifle.
“But they are justifying their withdrawal by saying that the Iraqi forces have reached a satisfactory level.”
al-Zawahiri concluded his speech “with a shout out to my homies, Jack Murtha and Howard Dean,” and “much love to Allah’s favorite fly girl, Nancy Pelosi.”
(h/t Allah)
A triumphant return! Hope this means all is well on the health front.
Sounds a bit like the Black Knight: “Alright, we’ll call it a draw.”
Iraq only a flesh wound.
If that is their definition of a victory, what would a loss look like?
Heard tell that Zawahri was up for consideration as Oscar Night host. His audition included a laugh-out-loud-funny medley of old Islam standard chants and yelps dubbed into scenes from the contending films.
The deal fell through when the Acadamy could not meet his demands of having the stage adorned with members of the Bush administration heads on pikes. Not enough time was their reason.
John Stewart it is.
The fact that he’s claiming victory amidst evidence quite to the contrary tells me they’re nearing the end. Much like Saddam’s Minister of Info at the podium bleating war cries while US tanks and infantry practically carried him off the stage.
Furthermore, the fact that the tape was subtitled in English tells us who their primary audience is – those folks in America following the narrative parrotted by many Democrats that the US is losing the war for democracy in Iraq.
Josh,
You got your translations wrong: Al-Zawahiri concluded his speech with “long live Al-President Bush bin Bush for he’s the best recruiting agent global Jihad ever hadâ€Â
Too bad the US Army will miss its fiscal 2005 (already lowered) goal of 80,000 by about 6,800 recruits, or 8.5 %, the worst performance since the Halcyon days of President Gerald Ford- Herr Vice Cheney’s brainless “mentorâ€Â…
The bearded cum turbaned Mohammedan admirer of comrade Kalashnikov slyly echoed Bush’s July 2003 speech and concluded his conclusion with “bring them on [these infidel cowboys] we’ve got the force necessary to deal with the (in)security situation…”
Anyhoo, welcome back
Dr V
Hmmm.
1. I hope you’re all right Jeff.
2. Burka burka burka. Burka burka. Burka!!
3. Where the hell is Baghdad Bob? I kinda miss his goofy wierd pronouncements. Frankly I think Miller-Lite commericals would be a blast with him hawking those things.
“Bud Light! You are not tasty! You don’t know what tasty is! You’ll never be tasty! I pour hot coals in your belly if you buy anything but Miller Lite!”
Or some such nonsense.
They keep recruiting ‘em–we keep killing ‘em.
Doc,
just like their sterling recruiting strategy in Afghanistan – the guys we blew out of existance in 2004-2005 while I was there have been replaced by the mighty stormtroopers who carry out victorious operations like beheading teachers. Yup, seems to be working in Iraq too – see how they seize strategic areas and hold them, see how the stockpiles of materiel and vast teeming pools of manpower accumulate.
I can only pray to God that AQ logisticians and strategists follow your logic. Right over the cliff.
Can’t wait for Dean to proclaim “I told you so!!”
Zawahiri is nothing but a turd in the punchbowl now.
Sounds familiar.
Just a flesh wound. … I’ll bite your legs off!
In a related story, Pete Carroll has come out of hiding in a janitor’s closet at the Rose Bowl and declared that Texas withdrawal from California means USC are the NCAA Champs.
tw:see-> how easy this is?
Methinks I hear a bunch of wistful thinking in ol’ Z’s words. Only someone who is terminally stupid, or spinning the propaganda machine as hard as inhumanly possible and at a rate not seen since the old US/USSR media battles, could call Afghanistan a victory for Islam. That goes triple for the specific brand of Islam that Zawarhi supports as well. Just not possible unless your ideological blinkers are just short of a parsec in length.
Hells, for that matter, there’s little chance of Iraq being a “victory” for al-Qaida. (Assuming, of course, that they were actually in there to begin with.) With a lack of a Hussein regime and the possibility of an actually responsible government forming, the al-Qaida mindset and philosophy took a giant step backwards.
Of course our esteemed Doc V doesn’t want to discuss re-enlistment rates across the military.
Cause that’s not DOOMY.
Welcome back, Jeff.
P.S.: Zawahiri…dude, NICE cave.
HAHAHAHAHA, That’s RICH! I almost forgot about Bagdad Bob, deja vue big time! HAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, can’t seem to stop laughing….HAHAHAHAHA. Ohhhhh, my side…gasp.HAHAHAHAHAHAHA….
TW-I have an “idea” this guy has more credability with the MSM than the entire pentagon.
Did you see his beard? Don’t forget the beard.
Word. He probably could have gone a step farther and emailed a copy of the contents to Reid and Murtha. Kinda personalized it, y’know?
Reminds me of a Carthaginian press release.
Eggzactly.
Let’s not forget Murtha’s recent statement that he doesn’t want to see a draw-down “that looks like victory”. No, he wants to see a rapid retreat that looks like defeat.
Odd how Murtha and Zawahiri both want to make it look like an American defeat.
What is it that goes on in the brains of these lefties that craves our defeat? Is it self-loathing? A fear that the U.S. is the evil empire? Or did they all just get the crap beat out of them by the high school football team and ROTC?
Amazing what you can do with a “Fletch” beard a towel and a machine gun.
Jeff,
You’ll need to do a “Overheard in a bunker post” about this. After all, I don’t think Abdul and Zahib know that they have won. Might have something to do with having to dodge the Predators, Marine Patrols, local citizenry ratting them out and working with those unstable IED’s. IMO I don’t think they are going to jump up and down and say something like,”We’re Number One!!”
Dammit! You heard what our new Over Lord said! On your knees and bow to the Great Zawahri!
This reminds me of an old Onion article where we were all newly aquired subjects of the North Vietnemese (since we lost the war).
Nikolai,
You may find answers here and here. The second link is to the first of a series of posts that you might want to read in their entirety.
A question for Murtha: Is there any way your call for withdrawl (redeployment) from Iraq can be encouraging to a potiential recruit? No, it can only be discouraging. If you’re gonna take a stand, at least admit your actions have consequences. Be faithful. Be a Marine.
I’m interested to hear an explanation from a Democrat. Why do the Islamist’s talking points and the Democratic party’s talking points always sound the same?
Cloudy? Actus? Jake?
Let’s face it. It’s over for us. Don’t any of you remember the disheartening video footage of the mobs toppling the statue of President Bush?
Shrink Wrapped–Thanks for the links. Very interesting, indeed.
As Saint Cindy seethes at being left off the credits.
For any of you that remember “Joe Isuzu”, I’ve been waiting for Baghdad Bob to show up advertising Isuzu’s for years.
Heck, if BB went into advertising talent I’d say that deserves a pardon from any charges might be waiting for him.
11 KIAs in the last couple of days.
Are we “winning” yet?
At this rate we’ll soon approach Vietnam casualty rates.
All for some stupid NEOCON illusion.
Now it looks like even Bush is beginning to face reality.
What’s with this meeting Bush had with former cabinet members of former administrations, as to what to do about Iraq?
Could it be that even Bush has second thoughts?
When Zawahri runs for the House in 2006 as a Democrat, will he count as another Democrat war veteran? At least he won’t have to come up with a brand new stump speech.
Well, Carl we’d have to stay in Iraq with the present “unstable” situation for say……another 85 years or so in order to hit VN casualties.
Maybe by then the Dems will be back in power and can call for an “immediate redeployment” (AKA hasty retreat).
I could be wrong but I don’t think it is going to last that long. Sorry to disappoint.
al-Zawahiri concluded his speech “with a shout out to my homies, Jack Murtha and Howard Dean,†and “much love to Allah’s favorite fly girl, Nancy Pelosi.â€Â
I don’t see that anywhere in the transcript.
2,000 KIAs in the last couple of days.
Are we “winning†yet?
At this rate we’ll soon approach Great War casualty rates.
All for some stupid Normandy illusion.
Now it looks like even Eisenhower is beginning to face reality.
What’s with this meeting Roosevelt had with the Churchill, Stalin and DeGaulle, as to what to do about the war?
Could it be that even Roosevelt has second thoughts?
Carl W. Lindbergh
Given that casualties were about the same in ‘05 as in ‘04, I’ll need a little more than the standard defeatist talking points to convince me.
Hey, it’s the new compilation album–’Now that’s what I call Antiwar agitprop memes 5’: All your old favorites from the 1960’s, 70’s, and ‘80’s–remixed for 2006!’
Carl
Please tell me that you were not serious when you wrote that. Are you as stupid as your threads show you are?
I think that should read “Phonecian”, not “Carthaginian”.
TODD, I think Carl W. Goss was crying too hard from his rage over this tape to type coherently.
TW: “Rage” as in “Even Carl can tell this is stupid for a change.”
Give Carl his props – writing it as “NEOCON” does have a certain majesty to it. Plus, he’s great as the neighbor on Aqua Teen.
That’s a grave insult to ATHF’s Carl.
“NEOCON illusion”
aahhhhh, it’s vision, not illusion. I know, a tough concept to grasp when you don’t have any.
TW-liberals are stupid, and not just a “little”
Have to admit you’re right, OHNOES – on the other hand, I can see a definitely parallel between Cloudy and Ignignokt.
Dadgumit, that should be “definite” – I’m veering into Meatwad territory here myself.
Murtha can’t. He’s old, senile and completely unmedicated.
Sounds a like like Carl W. Goss, AAMOF. Hey…
tw: Why is it always the old ones who slip their gears and refuse to fade away quietly…
Al Qaeda’s deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri said in a video aired on Friday that U.S. President George W. Bush’s plans to withdraw troops from Iraq meant Washington had been defeated by the Muslims.
Which is what I was predicting months ago. You started fighting a tar baby; staying meant that you just bled and provided propaganda for Al Qaeda and leaving also provided propaganda for Al Qaeda.
I point out one simple fact – Bush has failed to articulate a clear definition of what “winning” in Iraq would look like, and shown the US reaching that. Without that simple, obvious step, the Al Qaeda propaganda will win in the Middle East. Instead, your war has been aimed at domestic opinion.
“We threw the Soviets out of Afghanistan and the Americans out of Iraq” will become the standard wisdom, and terrorism against America will be encouraged.
Well done.
Oh, and note this prediction too. I suspect you morons will be completely silent about this when it happens.
This is Withdrawal in a Time of Trojan’s prediction. Now I’m not omniscient as she/he/it apparantly is but IMO this is not going to happen. Therefor I would like to ask WITT that if he/she/it is incorrect then would he/she/it agree to place its overinflated head up its ass and spin around and around while wiggling up the anus until it disappears into itself.
Not only would that provide entertainment, it would be an act of public service for the entire globe. Hell….it could even bring world peace.
“11 KIAs in the last couple of days.
Are we “winning†yet?
At this rate we’ll soon approach Vietnam casualty rates.”
Yup, if we keep this war up, I guess we’ll approach the Vietnam casualty rates in ABOUT 40 YEARS you moron.
Geez, some people just never do their homework.
Even if we agree with the idea that the drawdown of US/coalition forces is due to insurgent violence–not “facts on the ground” in the form of effective Iraqi security forces, infrastructure, and government–and therefore marks a defeat for the US, it’s a far cry from that to any claim to victory for Zawahri himself or AQ in Iraq as a whole. AFA I can tell from the WH’s Iraq strategy, the US will still be directing counterterror assaults in country for a long time to come (or for as long as AQiI exists and the US is welcome), coordinated with a stronger Iraqi government and security apparatus; a future environment likely much more favorable to US efforts along those lines.
The ironic thing is that Zawahri’s words here are just as likely an indicator of an AQiI withdrawal; the US is not the only one who might feel the need to proclaim “victory” and flee.
I point out one simple fact – Bush has failed to articulate a clear definition of what “winning†in Iraq would look like, and shown the US reaching that. Without that simple, obvious step, the Al Qaeda propaganda will win in the Middle East. Instead, your war has been aimed at domestic opinion.
You’ve got that backwards. Americans want a pitch that sounds good (and Dems want clear-cut plans they can undermine, then point to as failures).
What impresses the network of Islamofascist terrorists that operate out of every nation in the Middle East and North Africa is wiping them out, foiling their plans, shutting down their funding and emboldening a population to fight back against them, which is what is happening in Iraq.
Carl,
You’ve hit all the same points Zawhiri does. Is it because you think he’s right?
Yeah, Phoenician, you predicted that troops would be withdrawn.
I predicted the sun would come up.
I guess we’re both just brilliant.
To recap Phoenecian (you kiwi dolt):
1. Saddam will turn his WMDs against the invading forces and force terrible carnage.
2. Three days in–“It’s a quagmire. Americans are bogged down. Baghdad will never fall.”
3. You let Saddam and his sons get away and without them true victory is not possible.
4. You’ll never get them to form an interim government.
5. You’ll never get them to write a constitution.
6. You’ll never get them to pass the constitution.
7. No one will respect the outcome of the election.
8. You’re in a tar baby with decreasing troop levels that indicate that you are in a tar baby.
We’re waiting for number 9. And Major League Baseball has its EYE on you because you are batting 1.000. Pretty good for a cricket player.
Though #7 is accurate if you consider people who blow up funeral goers as “no one.” And #1 is truly sweet for its irony.
Like I said: Omniscient.
I guess Osama was too busy to give the victory speech, huh.
I just want someone to tell me why any of us should take seriously the words of a dirty little man hiding in a cave, sleeping with a gun, moving constantly from place to place to keep from getting captured or killed. Not to mention the total lack of citizenry pouring into the streets to celebrate Yay Terrorist Day.
Phoney, you go ahead and believe what you want to. Who am I to intrude upon your little fantasy world?
Is it just me, or have Phoenician’s denunciations taken on a more desperate quality of late?
Are you guys questioning Zawahri’s PATRIOTISM? Facists.
I just want someone to tell me why any of us should take seriously the words of a dirty little man hiding in a cave, sleeping with a gun, moving constantly from place to place to keep from getting captured or killed. Not to mention the total lack of citizenry pouring into the streets to celebrate Yay Terrorist Day.
We’ve got the guy who’s responsible for 9/11 anyway: Saddam Hussein! Who needs Osama Who?
You just can’t make this shit up.
We should have let the Japs rape you like Nanking, fucking ungrateful bastard.
Personally, I’m liking the fact he called us morons.
Seems the typical condescension’s out, and anger in.
Thanks for the amusement, pissant.
Phoenician did at least certify that I was no “Yank,” which will gratify my ”We still call it the ‘War of Northern Aggression’” Mother-In-Law to no end. She’s harbored her suspicions of me for some time, me being born north of Jackson and all.
TW “tell” – as in, “You tell Neil Young…etc.,etc.”
So the only winnable war is one without casualties?
Carl, what if this isn’t one of our options?
:peter
I say we stay as long as it took us to install demomcracy in France, Germany and Japan.
What?
Frylock  The MoveOnBots across the street at the rally have been getting kinda hissy lately too, it’s fun to watch.
Richard – it’s almost like they’re sensing disaster. What are they going to do when their whole house of cards collapses around them?
There going to thank God their base has the attention span of a fruit fly and invent a whole new reality.
Sheeesh. A moderate Democrat comes in and posts a reasonable bit, and all there is in response is a cricket chirping. Yet the trollish-sounding ones come in and they get bashed upside the head with a DayGlo pink rubber trout.
No wonder moderates never get any attention in modern politics these days.
Huh? I do not think this word “moderate” means what you think it means.
Even if we agree with the idea that the drawdown of US/coalition forces is due to insurgent violence–not “facts on the ground†in the form of effective Iraqi security forces, infrastructure, and government–and therefore marks a defeat for the US, it’s a far cry from that to any claim to victory for Zawahri himself or AQ in Iraq as a whole.
You are indeed a fool – they are not fighting a miltary war; they’re fighting a propaganda war. Any withdrawal will be claimed as a victory, and seen as such unless the US is very very careful.
To recap Phoenecian (you kiwi dolt):
Cites, liar.
Piator,
I’m going to, if I may, pass on the greater and more significant responses for the time being simply to make one point that has come to mind as of late.
I have, at least as an individual, tried to be civil and well behaved regarding your commentary.
I can completely understand why you may have, in general, taken a more robust defensive position. I simply ask that when I do ask a civil question that you extend the same couretsy in reply.
Respects,
BRD
PS No, I’ve not commented on this thread, so this is not a defensive response, so much as a request.
You are indeed a fool – they are not fighting a miltary war; they’re fighting a propaganda war. Any withdrawal will be claimed as a victory, and seen as such unless the US is very very careful.
Dear Phoenician,
My twelve-year-old refused to do his homework so I sent him to his room without supper and I then withdrew to the TV room for some relaxation. He’s calling his schoolmates and declaring victory. What can I do? Please help!
Signed, Help! My house is a quagmire!
Dear Help! My house is a quagmire!
You should move out of your house immediately. Your child has obviously taken control of the home. You made the mistake of thinking it’s important to control what he does, when all that really matters is what he says to his schoolmates. Good luck with your next family.
Signed, Phoenician
We lost? Gosh, it doesn’t seem like we lost…But all the alphabet networks and mainstream newspapers, and elected emocrats keep screaming that we lost, so maybe we did lose. No wait a minute–we liberated 30 million people, toppled a top-ten all time mass murderer, set up a democracy in the cess pool of the ME, provided a beacon of hope for decent folks all over that region….for the life of me, I just can’t fathom that we lost.
Check your beanie, you are projecting again.
Fuckin’ loser! Don’t you know by now that you are not supposed to think? Thinking is the province of the MSM. They will tell you what to think, when to think, how to think and the truth as they want it to be. You are supposed to blindly consume what they feed you and repeat it incessantly.
Jeezus!! Can’t you maroons get anything right?
TW: only – The only truth you need is what they tell you.
“Dear, I finished mowing the lawn, and took out the trash.”
“Did you trim the hedges?”
“I didn’t say I was going to trim the hedges.”
“Oh, and the trim. Did you paint the trim?”
“I said I was going to mow the lawn and take the trash out. I did. I did not say that I would trim the hedges, paint the trim, or anything else. I mowed the lawn and took the trash out.”
“Did you wash the cars?”
If this is not an overwhelming total ass-kicking by Uncle Sam, can someone please describe what would be?
We lost? Gosh, it doesn’t seem like we lost…
“Victory will be achieved by meeting certain clear objectives: when the terrorists and Saddamists can no longer threaten Iraq’s democracy, when the Iraqi security forces can protect their own people, and when Iraq is not a safe haven for terrorists to plot attacks against our country. These objectives, not timetables set by politicians in Washington, will drive our force levels in Iraq.” – George W Bush, Dec 14 2005
From Today in Iraq:
—-
Bring ‘em on: Deadliest day of violence in months on Thursday, which followed a very bad day on Wednesday. 130+ Iraqis killed on Thursday, and 7 US soldiers are killed in bombings. (Later update says 11 US troops killed.) Nearly 200 people were wounded in the attacks on Iraqis in two cities. Another three bombs exploded in Baghdad, two of them detonated by suicide bombers. And insurgents sabotaged an oil pipeline near the northern city of Kirkuk, causing a huge fire.
UP
UP
UP
Some of those killed were tribal leaders who had come to supervise the recruitment of residents into the country’s police force, said Majeed Tikriti, a doctor in Ramadi’s hospital. Local leaders have repeatedly demanded that U.S. and Iraqi authorities allow men from Ramadi to serve in Iraq’s armed forces. They had argued that only locally recruited soldiers could bring a measure of control to the city of 400,000 on the Euphrates River, which is considered one of the key centers of the Sunni-led insurgency. Though U.S. and Iraqi authorities have been reluctant to allow this, on the grounds that locally recruited soldiers are vulnerable to coercion by insurgents, they have relented in recent weeks.
UP
UP
“The patience of the Iraqi people is about to run out, and that is not acceptable by God,” Sistani was quoted as saying.
The Iraqi patience is about to run out against who, pray tell? Maybe the islama-nazis who are murdering them?
How much more indicative of the state of the Democratic Party can you get? An observer can’t tell the difference between a “moderate Democrat” and a Jew-focused conspiracy theorist self described “Tafft Republican.”
Reminiscent of Cloudy wondering why we just wouldn’t treat poor PIATR seriously. The guy is rooting for dead Americans, that’s who you’re aligned with.
You’re not contradicting my post, or adding to it in any way. You assume, for example, that Zawahri actually has credibility when it comes to his intended audiences. Maybe he has credibility to Western liberals, but you guys aren’t funding terrorist operations AFAIK (feel free to educate me on this point however, preferably with names and addresses). As I said above, AQ will try to claim a victory they did not earn, while fleeing a country that is decreasingly tolerant of its presence; regardless of the superficial parallels, calling this empty propaganda is a far more accurate description than casting US claims to victory–after invading the country, removing the government, replacing it with a nascent democracy and rebuilding their security apparatus–while drawing down troop levels as the same “propaganda.” No one takes Zawahri’s claims to victory in Afghanistan seriously, of course. In terms of Iraq, AQiI are trying to take credit for what is more a “victory” for Iraqi insurgents–among whom are the same people Zawahri is trying to propagandize–making it far more dangerous for AQiI if they try to stay there. No one mistakes Zawahri for an Iraqi. The US is drawing down forces in order to have less of a footprint in country, but we’ll still be running counterterror ops as long as AQ is there, and as long as we’re welcome. Our ability and effectiveness will be greatly enhanced as well, both in Afghanistan and in Iraq, making this one applause line of his rather shallow and pathetic. Like your trolling.
“In terms of Iraq, AQiI are trying to take credit for what is more a “victory†for Iraqi insurgents–among whom are the same people Zawahri is trying to propagandize–making it far more dangerous for AQiI if they try to stay there.”
Imo from the very beginning Al Qaeda was doomed to defeat in Iraq. The pieces on the board didn’t allow the installation of a Sunni religious state, none of the three main actors, Shi’ite, Sunni, or Kurd would have allowed it.
The question has always been whether the US would win or lose, not whether Al Qaeda would win. They’re a spoiler, but not the main opposition. Iraqi tribal society, corruption, and sectarian differences were always the main enemy.
“Victory will be achieved by meeting certain clear objectives: when the terrorists and Saddamists can no longer threaten Iraq’s democracy, when the Iraqi security forces can protect their own people, and when Iraq is not a safe haven for terrorists to plot attacks against our country. These objectives, not timetables set by politicians in Washington, will drive our force levels in Iraq.†– George W Bush, Dec 14 2005
The terrorists are attacking funerals. Not a very effective method of winning a propoganda war or toppling a democracy. You left out the part where after the attack at the police recruiter the survivors cleaned up the mess and got back in line to sign up. And I don’t think anyone thinks it is a safe place to be a terrorist over there. So what part of this well articulated plan of Chimpy’s don’t you understand?
What, no response from Boilerplate in a Time of Original Thought? I find it interesting that PIATOR feels the need to cop the Neocon line about solidifying victory now.
The Iraqi patience is about to run out against who, pray tell? Maybe the islama-nazis who are murdering them?
Probably, but that’s likely to also include the American occupiers and their pupets. “A plague on both their houses” is a common sentiment.
Imo from the very beginning Al Qaeda was doomed to defeat in Iraq.
Oh yeeeees? And what, pray tell, are Al Qaeda’s objectives in Iraq?
You people still don’t understand what sort of fight you’re in.
Who will be spontaneously drawn to fund AQ operations, when AQiI has been so overwhelmingly overtaken by the native insurgency that Zawahri feels the need to attach himself to the coattails of their so-called victory?
The nuance would escape you.
Who will be spontaneously drawn to fund AQ operations, when AQiI has been so overwhelmingly overtaken by the native insurgency that Zawahri feels the need to attach himself to the coattails of their so-called victory?
This is a little like claiming an arsonist is unsuccessful because the resulting blaze is so much larger than the match used to light it…
I don’t understand how a Xerox copier works either, but if I have a sledgehammer I can fix it so it don’t work.
Your response makes no sense. It’s more like an arsonist goes to his target only to find it’s already burning; he then takes credit for the fire while the real culprits are standing right next to him, brandishing knives.
<objectives in Iraq?</blockquote>
To establish a militant theocracy or at least prevent democracy.
And they have been sooooo successful.
But Al-Qaeda and PIATOR can point out that although, hey, they haven’t even come close to taking over the country, and that technically, Iraq has turned into a democracy, they haven’t actually failed, because you know, things can change.
And that sort of argument really impresses me.
Piator,
The other open question suggested by your observations is the role of asymmetry in this conflict. Clearly, both participants are engaged in a largely asymmetric conflict. This does raise the question (for both participants) about whether or not their aims are better met by matching an opponent’s asymmetry, and taking them head on on their terms, versus the merits of pursuing asymmetric goals through asymmetric means.
There are pros and cons to both sides, and I think the point that you imply – that defeating Al Qaeda on a symmetric basis provides the surest basis for declaring victory – is a valid one. In matching asymmetric conditions for victory, we can end up with the kind of situation we may face shortly – a war with two victors. So, our options are to go with that, compell our oponents to fight on our terms, or choose to fight on theirs.
Clearly, it is rather difficult to force an opponent to symmetrically match one’s own approach (although we were successful in Nov in Fallujah), so that’s not a particularly promising long-term approach. We could just compete through our own methods, but I think that might end up, as mentioned above, with a two-victory solution. This isn’t optimal for the US, because the nature of the AQ asymmetry creates a potential requirement that not only do we win, but also that they lose.
So the last option suggests that we change modes to fight, and defeat, AQ on their own terms. But I’m not, at this point, fully sure how so an engagement could be carried out successfully, and would welcome your commentary on the matter.
Regards,
BRD
“you morons”
Desperation is so unbecoming, Piator. If this all upsets you so, maybe you should take a break for a while.
In dinging the Bush Administration for AQ propagandizing, you’re asking the U.S. to take into account in the formulation of its objectives something it can’t influence. Maybe it’s the economist in me, but that’s not particularly intelligent reasoning on your part. AQ can spin any event they choose, any way they choose. How is the elimination of this possibility a rational desideratum?
Or maybe you’re just attempting to frame the conflict in a way you think the U.S. can’t win.