As an Iraq expat noted on FOXNews this morning, “every purple finger is a bullet to the chest of the terrorists.”
A quick look at how our friends on the anti-war left are covering the momentous news [relevant entries bolded for your convenience; posts drawn from today and, in some cases, last evening]:
Daily Kos: “Mr. Bush, Your Coalition Is Shrinking” (Italy to draw down troops); “Open Thread”; “Is There Any Doubt ScAlito Is An Extremist?”
Atrios: “ More Fun with Jack and Tom” (Abramoff); “What Millions Let You Do” (ad buys on Drudge); “Open Thread”; “The Dean” (on David Broder)
Steve Gilliard: “The further adventures of assclown media” (on Pajamas Media, citing Moxie; live election blogging is teh SUCK); “ NIggers? Raise? Are you kidding?”; “ Stick to making shit up about middle America”; “We’re losing”
Kevin Drum: “High Turnout In Iraqi Elections..” (by guest Shakespeare’s Sister)
TBogg: “Hey! He’s a director, not a demographer. Okay, he’s not much of a director…but still” (on Jason Apuzzo and gay cowboys)
Think Progress: “Caught on Tape: Bush Admits WMD Were Irrelevant”
MyDD: “Upcoming Changes to the Site”; “The Senior Vote and the Medicare Prescription Drug Cluster$#%@”; “KY-03: Another Iraq Baby Running for Congress” (about Iraq vets running for Congress as Dems); “John Aravosis Open Thread”; “McCain and the Fearful Democratic Base”; “GOP Unwilling to Give Up Tax Cuts for Wealthy to Fix AMT”
Josh Marshall: “Sen. Feingold gives us a morning update on the state of play in the Patriot Act Renewal battle”; “Another piece of the Abramoff puzzle”; “Following up on the antics of our embarrassing Ambassador to Canada, David Wilkins”
TPM Cafe (Larry Johnson): “Democracy and Delusion in Iraq” (“With voting already underway in Iraq we should harbor no illusion about the ultimate outcome—the Iraqi shias with the closest ties to Iran will secure the largest share of the votes”).
Oliver Willis: “The Iraqi Election” (Great, the Iraqis had their election (after they essentially had to shut down the entire country again)… so can the troops come home now? Mission accomplished, and all that… (this is one of those Iraq Turning PointsTM) Yeah, guess not).
Juan Cole: “High Turnout Expected as Iraqis go to Polls” (questions legitimacy of elections; “the Iraqi ‘government’ is a failed state”).
Talk Left: “McClellan Disputes Novak on Bush’s Leak Knowledge”; “DOJ Hires Defense Counsel for Air Marshals”; “The Meth Act Does Not Belong in the Patriot Act”;
Mahablog: “Getting What We Bargain For” (“This is Bush’s pattern: To take credit for an ‘accomplishment’ (that may not have been accomplished yet) and then leave the work to others”).
The Huffington Post: “Iraqis Vote Under Tight Security” [front page; blog entries follw] ; “Care for the Least of These” (Republicans don’t care about the poor); “I Won’t Stand For It” (shame at standing for the singing of the National Anthem); “The Sustainability of ‘Alternative Gifts’” (avoiding “conspicuous consumption”); “‘60s Flashback: Is the Government Spying on Us Again?” (on yesterday’s MSNBC report) [blog
Wonkette: “Power- and Metaphor-Mad Attorney Wants to Sex You Up” (something about Craig’s list); “A Lighter Shade of Gray” (something about…aw, who the fuck knows); “Gossip Roundup: Clooney for Obama”; “Daily Briefing: ‘Carefully Calibrated’ Rhetortic” (on torture ban, PATRIOT Act)
Crooked Timber: “Shawcross and frivolous conceits” (about last night’s BBC Newsnight); “Council proposes, Parliament disposes..” (“the Irish Dept. of Justice – is threatening to legally contest the traffic data retention directive passed (with disgraceful ease) by the European Parliament (EP) this week”); “Iraq Votes” (“This time around, as before, voting will probably go reasonably smoothly (by Iraqi standards I mean: there will probably only be a small number of attacks and deaths), and this counts for a lot. I think the main problem will be the protracted round of post-election negotiations between the various blocs. If it’s anything like January’s election, we might not see a government for months.”)
Poorman: [last updated Tuesday]
Common Dreams: “ANTI-GLOBALIZATION PROTESTERS MARCH ON 3RD DAY OF WTO”
ISOU: “Vote for ISOU in the Weblog Awards….”; “I found this blog….”
Crooks and Liars: “Talk Left profiled in the Denver Post”; (how come the Denver Post hasn’t profiled me? -ed); “From Russia With Love” (about Charles Taylor); “Train Gropers” (“Japanese police are using forensic analysis in hunting down gropers on crowded trains’
; “Ask John Harris a question”; “Last day for Weblogs Awards”; “Mike’s Blog Round Up” (The Green Knight: “Fog Facts”; Orcinus: “A look at a new wingmutt book attacking science and the publisher who printed it”; The Reality-Based Community: “Dog whistle politics on immigration”; The Washington Note: “John Bolton actively sabotaging Condi…”; Talk To Action: “The Roy Moore wing of the GOP”)
*****
Note: I’m not passing judgment on these sites; I’m just trying to give you some idea about how the anti-war sites are reacting to the elections. Perhaps some sites are waiting for results. Or a really nasty explosion or something. You can draw your own conclusions.
For instance, John Cole is completely understanding of the relative silence and/or gloom (via IM): “There really isn’t anything to write about. If I had not linked to memorandum or pj, I would have had nothing to say.”
****
update: via IP, reports that turnout in Saddam’s hometown of Tikrit surpasses 80%; see also, Commisar (via Allah); and Socalpundit
Let ‘em talk. That’s what they do best.
Let’s talk about health care!
Impeach Bush! We cannot allow this kind of liberty to be spread!
Atrios has an open thread? Now there’s a shocker!
Although I usually enforce a strict “no Juan Cole” policy on myself, I took a peek this morning, and not even Eeyore could ruin my mood. I laughed out loud at the “failed state” bit. You could give this guy free Superbowl tickets and he’d find a reason to bitch.
The election never happened.
Hey, if you’re getting up, grab a Jew and take him to Alaska, would ya?
Pitiful, just plain pitiful……
Oh and how bout them IRAQIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No mention of the shortage of ballots due to ROVE’S masterplan to silence the people….
Dear anti-war left: This election was brought to you by the letters ‘F’ and ‘U’. And in spite of you.
WHERE IS THE INSTANT JEFFERSONIAN DEMOCRACY YOU PROMISED, MR. BUSH??
I’m distressed to learn that Oliver now thinks we’ve won. Something must be going terribly wrong over there.
As for the ones who haven’t said anything: Interpreting silence is a dicey business at best. I’d advise against it.
RE: John Cole’s IM comment.
Really? He said that?
Like I said, I’m not passing judgment. Just noting how sites who have spent several years howling about the problems in Iraq, the lies that took us there, the illegality of the war, how the Iraqis hate us and want us out, etc., are “covering” the elections.
It’s possible they are crafting posts for later celebrating the elections but noting that it’s but a small step, and one that is likely to make no difference whatsoever (like Wes Clark just did). This is simply a “moment in time” post.
Yeah, successful elections after 2+ years war just ain’t sexy enough.
Yeah, here’s something more sexy: US FLUSHES KORAN DOWN TOILETS.
It’s the third one.
By the third Apollo launch/Space Shuttle launch, nobody gave a damn either –
We’re a culture with an amazing ability to be bored by the exceptional yet endlessly fascinated with the trivial.
PS: To be fair, I suppose these folks are waiting for election results and other data. But I seem to recall some blogging all through the US Presidential elections with all kinds of speculation. So my cynicism is likely borderline realism.
Re: Kos stories… I’m only looking at posts from today (and in some cases, last evening).
Heh, speaking of trivial:
Apparently, Rove’s weather machine was unable to summon a huge standstorm to reduce Sunni turnout. The master plan, was obviously, to have our Shiite and Kurd puppets write in “George W. Bush” as president of Iraq but now that the Sunnis have not been stopped by the sandstorm, Rove’s plan to have his boy as the president of two countries has been foiled.
Don’t get me wrong: I think things can still go very wrong over there, and I worry they will.
But I think it’s more likely that in five years, the average position of the left-liberals (outside of a few fever swamps) will have shifted from “It’s too late, we’ve lost, and as we told you stupid neocons we never should have been there in the first place” to “Hey, we hated Saddam Hussein way back when the Reagan administration was supporting him; we wanted him gone, but just not in the hamhanded way in which it was done; and it all worked out OK in spite of, not because of, George Bush’s policies. And it was our loyal criticism of the administration’s mistakes, and not of the overall effort (which most of us supported), came at a crucial time, and snapped the administration out of its stubborn insistence that everything was great.”
They will then wonder why they can’t convince voters that they’re more interested in being strong on national security than in being perceived as strong on national security.
For all the supposed care and concern about Iraq, the Left side of the blogosphere appears to be completely blase about something so fundamentally life changing and important (extremely high voter turnout!) for those same Iraqis.
This near-complete avoidance (or Oliver Willis-style dismal) of the historic vote and the impact it has on actual Iraqi citizens is one of the reaons I could never align myself with the Democratic party of today. It’s utterly shameful.
Honestly…these commies should stick to what they are good at-“man-boy love”.
Its fairly obvious that the Democrats and left wing racists are pissed about this election. Maybe they should form a new party and elect David Duke as their leader. I mean even their lord jesus christ and savior Michael Moore and his minutemen can’t stop the momentum of good news coming from Iraq, and if he couldn’t lead them into the promise land of a world filled with “stability” and “state sovereignty” i.e. World Peace, then their dreams must be completely shattered at this point
Come on people, they are waiting for the tally. Then they’ll send lawyers to Ohio and Florida, blame Diebold, and spin conspiracy tales. Oh, psst, did you know that Rove was seen in Iraq???????
Keerist, let them do what they do best!
Support the revolution and Bu$h is a traitor and envision world piece.
Yes, I really said it. Right now there really isn’t that much to write about. In a few hours, maybe tomorrow, when the media gets their act together and we start getting some reliable information, there will be much more to write about. All we have right now are initial reports of high turn-out.
That doesn’t mean that this isn’t a big deal (it is), but right now THERE ISN’T MUCH TO WRITE ABOUT other than “lots turned out” and “there was little to no violence.”
Jeff is just pissed at me because I “donned my hairshirt” earlier, and this is his way of exacting revenge- by making it appear as if I think nothing big happened and placing that comment there to make it seem as if I am defending the bitter anti-war left. I am not. I just don’t think that other than linking to the folks on the ground who actually know something (I know- uncharted territory for bloggers) that there is much to say right now.
I might point out that Jeff would seem to agree with me, because other than linking to the same PJ Media post I linked to, he has had nothing to say on the issue (other than this post, pointing out the ‘silence’ from certain websites).
Imagine that.
Yes, John. It’s a conspiracy to humiliate you.
Too bad I didn’t wait a few weeks—you could of had me brought up on torture charges.
Conspiracies aside, no, you just happened to be on IM with me when I posted, and you commented on the post. As you know from our conversation, I’m not passing judgment. But as I say, if you’ve spent 2 years saying the whole plan for Iraq was a disaster, I’m interested to hear how you react to such an enormously successful election.
Meow!!
Good post BumperStickerist. I don’t care about Iraqi elections! Who’s dating Jennifer Aniston?! That’s what’s REALLY important.
And of course, this very post notes: Upwards of 15 million vote in Iraq; violence minimal; polls stay open an hour late to accomodate high turnout; in several Sunni areas, ballots run out.
And quotes an Iraqi expat, thus: “As an Iraq expat noted on FOXNews this morning, “every purple finger is a bullet to the chest of the terrorists.â€Â
Which is, in fact, a reaction to the elections. Combine that with my link to live election coverage, and dipping my son’s finger in gentian violet as a show of solidarity, and I think you can safely divine my reaction to the elections in Iraq.
Hiss.
John is not supporting the anti-war left, he’s just housing many of their members in his comments section. Not that it’s his fault, the filthy squatters just seem to like it there and an infestation of hippies is hard to get rid of. Once the drum circle starts they’ve dug in like ticks.
The smell of pachouli is what sickens me.
Alot of the folks on the left seem to feel the legitimate Iraqis (and the ones that deserve support) are the ones blowing things up, not voting. For example read some of Jakes posts a couple of threads down. From looking at John’s site some of the commenter there seem to run in the same direction. If that’s not opposing democracy what is?
If he doesn’t do something about them, he’s gonna have a jam-band music festival on his hands.
That’s alright; check out MSNBC headlines on MSN’s home page as of 11:00 PST:
MSNBC Front Page news
Ice storm to hit East Coast
Midwest snow and icy conditions moving in from the southeast were expected to converge over the Northeast by Friday, when New York City transit workers have threatened to strike.
NYC braces for transit strike
White House OKs torture ban
France nets 3 terror suspects
To be clear I don’t want to imply that John doesn’t support democracy, he obviously does, and probably more strenously than I do. I’m just saying that some of his commenters don’t, and some of the commenters that have shown up here (like Jake) don’t either.
Well, maybe, but it’s in Detroit so who could blame him.
“It’s in Detroit? That’s too long a drive from Ann Arbor! It’s going to be a disaster, tell you, a disaster!”
TW: clear. As in “it should be clear that it’s a failed Superbowl.”
I’m still stupid enough to continue being surprised by the American and European Left. Is it impossible to put Bush hatred and partisanship aside for something as important as these historic elections? I hate to demonize people I disagree with, but they really do reveal themselves to be rather scummy in their politics.
Will make it difficult to have any respect for them at all in the future.
Robert, you’re not demonizing them. They’re demonizing them.
Apparently, yes.
Remember, we’re talking about people who debate over “LIHOP” and “MIHOP”.
JPS,
so precient. i’d easily put money on that.
“we were never/always at war with eastasia.”
The fact that these elections are taking place is so monumental in and of itself, that their silence tells us all we need to know. This could well prove to be the seminal geopolitical event of this century – certainly of this decade – and they can’t even bring themselves to applaud.
Mongrels.
To be fair to John, he does seem to care about Democracy happening in Iraq. The squatters that have taken over his comments section are the problem. They didn’t put up any out houses or dig any slit trenches and are just pissing and shitting all over the place.
You can’t even hold your nose and go in there. The stench is awful.
You know the Left does not like to talk about elections that they lose. Unless they talk about how they were stolen.
They are losing this one and I can’t wait to hear how Bush stole it.
here’s what progressives think:
“if a dictastor gives his people free healthcare, i like that dictator.”
progressives do NOT support democracy. they see differing opinions as an impediment to progress.
every iraqi who voted today is, in the eyes of progressives, a collaborator, and so any of them who may loose their lives to terrorism deserved it.
this is what progressives think. this is what
the term “social justice” means: “the pedagogy of the paredon.”
I loved Rush’s comment on the radio today:
“hey liberals, here’s how to be happy about the iraqi situation. Pretend that Clinton is still President. Pretend that he is the one creating a a new democratic middle east and bringing real change to the region. Maybe then you can get over the hate of George Bush for a minute and enjoy what’s happening.”
It brings to mind the question I often have when I listen to the MSM. How differently would all of this have been reported if Clinton (Bill or Hill) was President right now? The words “night” and “day” come to mind.
QUAGMIRE! First Tookie, now this! I am going to cry now. I’ll be in my room.
by the way, there is no truth to the excuse that “there’s nothing to report”. that’s a lie.
if 15 people died in an ied attack it would be better covered. if this was an event of similar consequence to the left, we’d be watching back-to-back live reports with the gaps filled in with on-air speculation.
“so, bob, can you tell from where you are, if the votes are written on paper?”
“indeed many are jane. you may remember in the 2000 u.s. election, that paper was also used then. if you…”
“…and paper is, sorry.”
“no, go ahead.”
“paper, as i understand it, is made of pulpified wood. is that right?”
i don’t quite know what to give as an example. maybe if patric fitzgerald hld a press conference to say he hasn’t found anything yet. the leftwing blogoshere would be instantly alive with redundant posts about nothing.
here, we hear their silence because progressives understand that a success for iraqis and the u.s. is a defeat for them. kos and atrios and all of the ones that are bassicly auxiliary cnn correspondents are keeping their mouths shut because they don’t want to be caught saying what they believe. the pipsqueaks don’t have any rep to protect, so we get to hear what progressives think: “this is a defeat for the headchoppers and therefor also for us. f**k democracy.”
Successful Election? Not in Bhopal, let’s talk about what is really important, Bhopal. The anti war left on campus spent the last week discusing Bhopal and can’t even get the right Dow Company that owned the plant in Bhopal.
DONT YOU UNDERSTAND IRAQIS HAVE THEIR OWN UNIQUE CULTURE AND WILL NEVER TAKE TO AMERICAN STYLE DEMOCRACY?
DONT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THIS ELECTION IS A FAILURE BECAUSE ITS NOT EXACTLY LIKE AMERICAN STYLE DEMOCRACY?
After all the turnout is dramatically too high and nobody is out slashing the oppositions tires.
The more things change…
Back during the Gulf War, the anti-war nuts at my alma mater spent their time fretting about salad shooters. No shit, there were at least two waves of posters saying the war was all about salad shooters.
Because it don’t mean shee-it.
qualify that miricle max.
He’s only mostly dead.
Re: Filthy Hippies
John: tried tossing in a bar of soap? That’ll empty out a pit of Filthy Hippies faster’n anything else…
SB: fear
itself
Maybe they don’t like elections in the reality-based community because they think America is proof democracy doesn’t work.
This dovetails nicely with the liberal belief in the need for a revolution.
I still hate the French.
TW: nothing; as in “It has nothing to do with the conversation, but it makes me feel really, really good to say it.”
My response.
Were there hanging chads? Don’t ever ever forget about the hanging chads!
No argument, Kyle. I was merely trying to apply a correction factor for my cynicism. I probably over-corrected.
AND I BLAME THE FAULTY INTELLIGENCE!!!!!!!
Let me translate David Anderson:
“I was against the war. I am still against the war, I will be against the war… “
I.e. I never wanted this election to take place. I support the slavery of Iraqis. Have our troops surrender right now, so all these Iraqis who voted can be put back into chais.
Let me translate your translation… “Anyone who dissagrees with me is an idiot.” And if you go back to the last elections in Iraq and read my Blog, you will see that I was one of the first (and few) Leftie Bloggers to congradulate the Iraqis. I am not going to have a pro/con Iraqi War argument on Jeff’s blog. That is not in my eyes the subject matter…
Jeff made a good point. I saw my own oversight in not responding to what I agree is historical news. That you see fit to SPIN it as something it is not is a.) typical and b.) expected.
Who is the favored candidate?
What if the result leans toward an Iranian-like theocracy?
Just asking-
Let me translate your translation – You have nothing to say in your defense. You piss all over the Iraqis and our soldiers (see your own words, which I cited) and then want a pat on the back for it. Nope. Not going to happen. You should have kept your mouth shut. Instead you opened your big fat mouth, and now you are going to get kicked for it (with justification).
you wouldn’t have accidentally overlooked a specious report about the troops allegedly behaving badly, but you accidentally overlooked an entire election?
you must make yourself sick to your stomach with this sort of dishonesty. if not, then you’re a reptile. you must get dean money for this sort of thing.
The bar of soap solution proferred above is pretty hit or miss in terms of clearing out nests of hippy scum.
The best solution remains the one pioneered by Cartman: Slayer, played at extreme volumes. They scatter like roaches.
Laughing… Kicked? Already got the jack boots out have we? You arent man enough to kick me. Unless you consider anonomous attacks on someone else’s blog to be kicks. You really need to see someone about that aggression you know. As for Yummy or Jummy or whatever your name is. I already answered you on my blog. And Jeff, if you wonder why Leftist dont dialogue on this issue, perhaps you need look no further than these comments. One CAN be against the war and still want the best for the Iraqi people. Now I am done with this conversation. I have had enough flame wars this year…
no. you can be against the war and be ambivalent about the iraqi peopl. your moral stance on this rises no further.
Didn’t take long for you to violate Godwin’s Law did you with you not-so-clever “jack boots” comment – the last resort of a beaten man.
Of course I was speaking in metaphors, as I know you don’t really have the guts to literally take a piss on our soliders or their mission or the Iraqi people.
Instead you piss on them using your sad, happily mostly-unread blog. You degrade the idea of Iraqi freedom and democracy and marginalize those Americans and Iraqis who spilled blood to help make this happen. A senisble man would keep his mouth shut in shame today. But you keep it open, as if most are not already aware of what a cowardly slave you really are.
I can’t help but feel that this election is all the fault of Bush’s War in Iraq.
No you cannot, Anderson. You cannot be “against the war and still want what’s best for the Iraqi people”.
Because the cause of today’s events is the U.S. Military. If they stay home, no election(s), no democracy, no “best for the Iraqi people”. If they stay home, it’s fire up the shredder and dig me a nice mass grave trench time, Uday.
I don’t like calling you a liar, but I’d have to say you’re either lying or delusional.
“once”, just once I’d like to read something honest from one of these guys.
No, no, no!
When the media get their act together is bwhen we start getting unreliable information.
David A,
That could be the single stupidest thing I have ever read on this blog, and that’s saying something.
Please. No sympathy for John. He whored himself for traffic during his anti-theocracy spree and he’s now paying for every last penny his blogads brought in. He deserves the company he gets.
Acepilots neatly replaces the Balloon. Commissar atleast has libertarian-secularism without the horseshit outrage over every utterance from the televangelist crowd. Plus he’s much funnier than John and doesn’t blog about pets.
After watching the hissy fit of the last five years, I believe it’s time to amend the Constitution to allow a single Bill of Attainder which will prohibit anyone born between 1946 and 1964 from voting in any U.S. election, or running for office.
That’s my generation, and I would willingly give up the vote (which is NOT a fundamental right) to remove this tyrannous influence from our politics.
For the irony challenged: this is a jest. It does sum up my feelings about that generation. They have been bad for the country. They don’t even notice the fair warning the collapse of communism has given us: if we don’t reverse the growth of government control of our lives, this nation will in time suffer the same fate.
That is until mommy calls him to come eat dinner.
The position of the lefty blogs?
LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA FUCK BUSH
David Anderson.
You post reads like a pouting, petulant, temper tantrum throwing 10 year old spoiled brat trying to sound “all grown up” when arguing with your mother. Which I am sure you do often because I am willing to bet that you still live at home with your parents.
David is a poster child for why I generally don’t even bother with the residents of the “alternative reality-based community” anymore. I do with them just like I do when confronted with a spoiled 10 year old brat throwing a temper tantrum-point out how stupid they look, remind them that the shiny side of the tin foil goes on the outside and walk away.
Their infantilism, ignorance and refusal to accept the fact that everything they espouse has been proven wrong is striking to behold and is indicative to me of a deep underlying psychosis on their part. My guess is that they can not accept that 1968 is over-we gave peace a chance and got 9/11 instead. They figure that if they ignore the fact that there are nasty people in the world who want to kill them just because they exist those nasty people will go away. Their biggest problem is that there are people like us who are telling them that ain’t going to happen. A delusional psychotic gets rather violent when you try to snap them back into reality-it is no different with people like David. For example: When you try to correct them on one of their “alternative reality-based “facts’” they do the verbal equivalent of “La-la-la, I can’t hear you.”. Then they post their usual ad hominum attacks with the required “Hitler” or “Nazi” reference which is little more then the verbal equivalent of a 10 year old trying to get “even” with you by toilet papering the trees in your yard. I don’t think Pavlov’s dog was as predictable as a member of the “alternative reality-based community”.
this blog blows.
Not until the second date. So put that love thumb back in your crotch fist, sweetie—or at least say something nice.
This was a good round-up Jeff –
This morning – without even trying – I caught 1) NPR’s acid summary of the elections by Ann Gerrals: an incredibly bitter, parsimonious, 3-minute snapshot of this immense human occasion, this inspiring bravado act for freedom; her final sentence was something like, “…and every single voter wants the US military out now”; 2) Wes Clark on Fox goal post moving for dear life, desperate not to give Bush any credit for planting freedom in the ME.
That the anti-Bush left cannot take a Time-Out to acknowledge, much less celebrate, an outsized act of human courage is nihilism writ large.
Das:
“an incredibly bitter, parsimonious, 3-minute snapshot of this immense human occasion, this inspiring bravado act for freedom;”
Hey, go easy.
Imagine that you pride yourself on being a good and compassionate person. That’s why you hold the beliefs you do, after all, unlike those self-interested, not-so-nice people on the other side.
Now imagine you have to watch a day like this and know, whether you choose to admit it or not, that if you’d been listened to, this never would have happened. For all the legitimate criticisms you can level, this is a great day–and when all is said and done, you were against it.
That’s gotta hurt, is all I’m saying. So try to go easy.
In a more solemn vein, I do think it’s sad that one of two major political parties in this country has positioned itself so that when anything goes right in Iraq, they look bad and have to cover for themselves.
I am a political partisan. I may not wish the Democrats success, exactly, but I want them strong and credible, if only to keep my own all-too-flawed side on its toes.
Back when Margaret Thatcher won her last election, someone asked one of her advisers whether the Tories had secured a lock on 10 Downing Street for the foreseeable future. He replied, if memory serves:
“Of course not. Look, we live in a multiparty system. Sooner or later, Labour will win another election. Our job is to hang on until they are sane.”
I have to say, I’m impressed with the conservative blogosphere’s positive reaction to the large turnout in Sunni strongholds like Fallujah and Tikrit. Anti-American feeling among Sunni Iraqis is very high; and most of them are probably voting because they believe it’s the only way to get Americans out of Iraq. Conservative bloggers could have held this against the Sunnis, or criticized them for it. But instead they’re truly happy that Iraqis voted in such huge numbers today so they can get the two things they want most: an end to the violence, and an end to the U.S. occupation.
I think that shows righties really do want Iraqis to be liberated.
I’m happy they’re expressing their feelings through the political process and not by sheltering al Qaeda or former Ba’athist insurgents.
So yeah, that’s a huge deal, as far as I’m concerned. And of course we want Iraqis liberated. Why wouldn’t we? Politicized—rather than militarized—hatred of the US? Hell, it’d be like France, only with more sandals.
What is the matter with you lefties? What will it take for you to be happy? Is your life that sad that all you can do is btch and moan about everything. What a bunch of class “A” losers!
What is the matter with you lefties? What will it take for you to be happy? Is your life that sad that all you can do is btch and moan about everything. What a bunch of class “A†losers!
Hey, relax; you righties bitch and moan about everything, too. It’s that there’s a different set of “everything” for you guys.
For instance, righties bitch and moan about U.S. interrogators not being free to torture detainees after the McCain Amendment passes. You guys bitch and moan about those senators who are insisting on protections for civil liberties before voting to extend the Patriot Act.
Lefties bitch about righties who want Iraqis to vote for democracy so they can liberate themselves from the United States military, which occupies their country so they can vote to liberate themselves from the United States military.
See? We’re all the same.
Right Kathy. That’s the only reason Iraqi’s voted, to liberate themselves from the United States, the same United States that removed Saddam from power for them .
Makes perfect sense.
Now now, Tman. Leave Kathy her excuse not to feel like a total shitheel for spending her free time trying to block the way for 11 million people to vote for self-determination.
You’ll see: brown people aren’t fit to govern themselves. Mark Kathy’s words.
Anti-American feeling among Sunni Iraqis is very high
Well, seeing as how Americans robbed them of their “right” to terrorise and enslave the other 80% of Iraq, that shouldn’t be surprising. I don’t really care much for the Sunni’s personally, but I will never deny them the right to vote. In the end, it’s better for Iraq if everyone participates in the political process.
Im going to take Kathy’s comment at face value and say; Im glad you recognize that we really didnt have some ulterior motive for this election and that we say what we mean. The result may not be what we’d like at the moment, but hopefully, after a generation or two, democracy will solidify in Iraq and start some serious reforms with reguard to the rest of the region.
I hope this will be so.
Lefties bitch about righties who want Iraqis to vote for democracy so they can liberate themselves from the United States military
Kathy, not exactly :
And :
Hardly the quagmire you want it to be. Sorry. Besides, no matter what, you can always count on most Sunnis to hate the US because we kicked them in the nuts in order to liberate the rest of Iraq from Sunni oppression. Frankly, it’s nice that Sunnis are particpating in the elections, but beyond that I couldn’t give a flying fuck what they think.
Liberals are like the NOBLES in Braveheart.
They sit on both sides of the fence and watch the way the wind blows, and when it is in their best interests they go one way or another, never taking a stance, but waiting to see how things will simply affect them personally.
What I predict is that we will see all kinds of spinning, spinning, spinning of words, positions, etc.. in the coming weeks, as they recognize it will be surivival to be “for the war after we voted against the war….etc…
And what the heck is up with Joe Biden. Here we have this American Senator who in all the pieces I read about him today was talking about the Iraq constitution as if it does not exist. Is he not aware that the whole point of the first election was to pick the founders who would write the constitution. Which they did, and the whole point of the second election was to accept or reject that constitution???
He is talking like it has not even been written yet. Anyone else notice this?? Why is he so dumb?
God bless the iraqi people. I was simply praying for the past 24 hours that no one would die while voting. I have not heard the final numbers, but it seems like very few people were killed. (talk about voter disenfranchisement and disempowerment)
Thanks Jeff, for your passion. My eleven year old inked up his finger for school today, and proudly stood in solidarity with the Iraqi people.
Jenny
Who is NOT a noble.
How do you nuance the difference between the Iraqi election coverage and fear of the NSA monitoring international conversations and email. The NYT even says they sat on the NSA article for a year before presenting it on the same day they would have had to cover the Iraqi elections.
Did any gay cowboys vote in Iraq? That might get a mention.
Salon rages against the dying of the light.
Right Kathy. That’s the only reason Iraqi’s voted, to liberate themselves from the United States, the same United States that removed Saddam from power for them .
The only reason? No, but it’s certainly a major reason, especially among Sunnis. If you go to Google News and read through some of the articles there, you will see the comments made to reporters by Iraqis; many of them said quite bluntly they were voting because it was the way to get the Americans out of Iraq.
Iraqis also want an end to the constant daily violence and the total lack of security, obviously, and they’re hoping that voting will get them a government that will do that.
As for your outrage over the very suggestion that Iraqis could want to get rid of the Americans who removed Saddam from them, I think it’s foolish. Iraqis don’t like a foreign military occupying their country. They hated Saddam, and they were glad when he was gone, but that doesn’t mean they wanted an indefinite U.S. military occupation. They hated Saddam, and now they hate us. They hate the unending daily violence, which has made them prisoners in their own homes. And they put a lot of the blame for that violence on the American presence. They hate having their houses forcibly searched in the middle of the night. They hate having their wives and daughters and sisters treated disrespectfully by Americans who don’t understand Muslim sensibilities. Just because Iraqis hated and loathed Saddam, doesn’t mean they are going to love Americans when Americans take over their country and don’t leave, just because in the beginning they believed Americans, having overthrown Saddam, would leave their country and let them rebuild it by themselves. America long ago wore out its welcome with the Iraqi people, which at one time was very real.
It’s arrogant and presumptuous to believe that Iraqis, or any people in any country, would be grateful to foreigners who establish a military occupation of their country simply because, when those foreigners first came, they deposed a hated dictator.
Would YOU be grateful if another country, far more powerful than yours, invaded to overthrow a dictator and then stayed to occupy your country and act like they owned the place?
I don’t think you would be. I know I wouldn’t be.
To MisterPundit:
I went to your link, and I don’t know where that 10% figure comes from; if you look at the actual survey, here, you will see that only 46% of Iraqis think their country is better off now than before the U.S. invaded; half of Iraqis surveyed said the U.S. invasion was wrong; two-thirds “now oppose the presence of U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq”; almost 60% “disapprove of how the United States has operated in Iraq since the war [began]”; and most of that almost 60% who disapprove, disapprove “strongly.” Almost half of Iraqis surveyed “would like to see U.S. forces leave soon.”
“Specifically, 26% of Iraqis say U.S. and other Coalition forces should leave now [meaning before today’s elections] and 19% percent say they should go after the government chosen in this week’s election takes office; that adds to 45%. Roughly the other half say coalition forces should remain until security is restored (31%), until Iraqi security forces can operate independently (16%) or longer (5%).”
Re your comments about Sunni motivations for feeling as they do, of course you’re right that they hate the fact that they are no longer in power. That doesn’t mean an Iraq where the Shiites hold power will be any better. There are very strong signs that Iran has gained enormously from the growing influence of the Shiites, and I think it’s a given that, if the government formed after this election is heavily weighted to favor the Shiite population (which, I don’t see how it could be any other way), Iran and Iraq will get much closer, to Iran’s advantage. I don’t see that as a good thing, given how drenched Iran is in terrorism. And considering that the major Shiite political parties have strong links to Iranian terror organizations.
Maybe in a decade or so, you will be saying Iraq needs to be liberated from Shiite oppression.