Or is it that he’s receiving the run-around?
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rino news
Republican Peter King: Rand Paul Lies – ‘Doesn’t Deserve to Be in US Senate’ (Video)
Run around? You mean people might be trying to cause him problems for political reasons?
Whodathunkit?
Oh, right, that would be all the people who were told “shut up, racist” for pointing this kind of thing out…
Funny money: How student loan profits make Obamacare look good [VIDEO]
actually, drum, I think everyone having issues with Obamacare is getting the run around because it is supposed to fail
Paul’s son being automatically enrolled in Medicaid is a feature not a bug
FORWARD to singlepayer!
http://i.imgur.com/WWtIV6s.jpg
I generally like Rand Paul’s politics, but I have trouble taking him seriously.
I don’t know if it’s his dad, his first name, or that he’s a man that plucks his eyebrows.
Maybe all the above.
His first name is Randall. His wife calls him Rand and that’s what he decided to go by. It has nothing to do with Ayn Rand, as many people like to say.
I like the fact that he is a doctor who continues to practice when congress is not in session. He does vision correction surgeries for free and is a first rate ophthalmologist. He’s a good guy and not at all like his wacky dad.
Plus, I love his curly hair and drawly speech.
-14 degrees Fahrenheit and falling
Bet you wish you had those scarves now.
We’re looking at -3 overnight. Schools are closed, naturlich.
In real news:
http://acasignups.net/spreadsheet
6.6 million people now insured. Even more if you count people up to age 26 are insured because they’ve been allowed to stay on their parents plans.
FAILURE.
>6.6 million people now insured.<
have they paid their premiums. if not they're not insured
though you probably consider rand’s kid as being “insured”
{P}eople up to age 26 are insured because they’ve been allowed to stay on their parents plans.
FAILURE.
Failure indeed.
Meanwhile the employer mandate time bomb is still ticking, with an estimated 88+ million people scheduled to lose their insurance, according to some know-nothing named Sillybus. (Or something like that, but what would the HHS know about such things, right?)
But those nuns who have dedicated their life to easing the suffering of others? FUCK THEM, right, DV?
Oh, and according to your link, 4.45 million (more than 2/3) of those have been Medicaid signups.
Can you say “Death Spiral”? I didn’t think so…
“-14 degrees Fahrenheit and falling”
When I was 14 my parents were teaching at John D’or Praire, Alberta. The nearest real town was High Level, but during the winter the roads were impassable and the only supplies we got were by air.
Round about January (the sun came up around 10am, set about 3pm), it got down to -54f (yes, that was before Canada went metric, and no, the fucking school didn’t close!) and our propane tank froze. Not a huge deal, my dad went out around 2am and built a fire under the tank, thawing it out no problem. Problem was, the thermo-coupler went out when the furnace did, and it was a week before they could fly in another.
We fired up the gas oven/stove and put a oscillating fan in front to heat the house (mobile home), but by the weeks end, there was about an inch or better of ice on all the interior walls. Made things interesting when the furnace did get going again.
As an aside, we didn’t have running water there. we used a chemical toilet, or the outhouse. On weekends dad would drive down to the Peace River and fill a 45 gallon barrel we used for drinking and bathing. Bathing was accomplished by heating water on the stove and pouring it into the tub. If you really worked it you could get a warm bath of about 4 inches deep.
The school was 5 double wides, with a outhouse , 3 holes each for boys and girls in one structure. I don’t know about the girls, but by winters end there was a ten inch rim of frozen pee on the boys holes. I guess the teachers went home to go. My dad was the principle, mom, another couple and a single guy taught there and we all lived in teacherages close by, plus there was a convent and there were 3 nuns that taught (Sister Madelene was hot, and I’m afraid I had inappropriate thoughts about her). Hey, I was 14.
All in all, it was quite the experience.
Don’t even get me started on when I worked in Wyoming…
{P}eople up to age 26 are insured because they’ve been allowed to stay on their parents plans.
When I was 26, I had a college education, was a home owner and had a full time job. I also hadn’t lived at home since I was 17. What are these slackers doing with themselves that they need to be on mommy and daddy’s plan when they are sliding into being 30 years old. The only one of my kids who is still home is in high school, has a job and pays his own car insurance while holding a 4.0 GPA and wrestling varsity. Oh, and he’s scored a full academic scholarship to a major university. Other kids are similar stories, so I won’t repeat them.
Thank god I didn’t raise a bunch of losers like pajama-boi.
Looks like 2.1 M are paying some portion of their premiums; 4.5 M are Medicaid expansioneers, paying next to nothing.
ObamaCare might seem actually alive, but sooner or later it will suffer the fatal Leftist communal disease known as unsustainable spendimosis. Because no matter how much you dopes hope, Unicorn Presidents can’t shit gold bricks. TANSTAAFL, saith the Gods of the Copybook Headings.
Meanwhile millions of Americans have been bumped off of their plans that they liked and were repeatedly told they could keep and having to secure new plans at significant costs.
That was my point, Leigh… At 26, I was well into my second career, and had lived on my own since just after my 18th birthday.
This goes back to my earlier point that if someone is still counted as a dependent on someone else’s taxes and insurance, they should not have the vote. If you’re not driving the bus, you get no say in where or how fast it goes.
Republic of Gondour, anyone?
>Looks like 2.1 M are paying some portion of their premiums;<
we'll know how many paid when the ins. cos. ask for the eventual bailout
Rolling Stone is now officially the magazine of crazy ex-hippie grandpa who wants attention.
Officially.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/01/04/rolling-stones-5-economic-reforms-millen
Preaching to the choir, Drum. Sadly, there seems to be a much looser definition of “work ethic” among our yoots. My middle boy has been on his own since he graduated from college. Great job, working on his passion in his spare time, et cetera. He is disgusted with many of his peers who spend all of their time working crap jobs (when they work at all) or getting loaded and fathering illegitimate children they never see.
My eldest took a path like yours: at 18 he took a hitch in the USN and now a second career. A wife, home and a new baby this late summer, too. (Yes, I am now a Gramma. Yeah!)
So, yes. If you don’t have skin in the game, you don’t get to play.
Steven B. Thievin, repeat after me: Health coverage is not health care.
See also this.
Speaking of those 6 million, here are a few examples of what they are running into:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532869/They-no-idea-insurance-active-not-At-Virginia-hospitals-Obamacare-confusion-reigns-frustrated-patients-walk-out.html
Slappy’s still here? Have you hit the tip jar yet, moneybags?
Don’t try to add your newborn on either.
Well. 4.5 million people added to Medicaid. WE’VE TOTALLY FIXED THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM!!!
Fucking idiot.
And immediately be rolled over into very similar insurance. So there will be no gap in coverage. BTW, this kind of thing happens to a certain percentage of those insured every year anyways. But don’t let the facts hit you on the ass. Keep trumpeting that 88 million number because it sounds very very scary.
Repeat after me. Medical care without health coverage is a leading cause of bankruptcy. And if it’s elective (like hernia surgery), you better come up with a good chunk of money up front, because that’s not the kind of thing an emergency room has to treat.
Leigh, what did your boys do for health insurance at ages 19, 20, 21, 22, while they were in college?
“But don’t let the facts hit you on the ass.”
Yeah well, Obama and mendacious little assholes like you certainly haven’t. You just start telling wild tales about the uninsured that are supposed to distract from the train wreck we’ve all seen.
“Medical care without health coverage is a leading cause of bankruptcy.”
So is borrowing what you can’t pay back. Imagine that!
And immediately be rolled over into very similar insurance
At higher prices for most of them, 2/3 of them will be entered into Medicaid (many against their wishes), and so much for the “if you like your government, you can keep your government” lies, which you conveniently forget. Middle aged men and grandmothers will be paying for maternity care, nuns will be forced to pay for contraception, and waivers for politically-favored groups (such as Congressional staffers, unions, and government workers) will be handed out faster than a traveling salesman’s business cards.
You also ignore the difference between health coverage and health care.
FAILURE. Indeed.
Keep trumpeting that 88 million number because it sounds very very scary.
Just remember that it was HHS putting that number out, and it is the low end of the “median estimates”. It will probably be twice as bad, as the numerous middle-class tax increases have just gone into effect.
Death Spiral. Keep that phrase in mind as the election nears. You will be hearing it a lot as the system collapses around your ears.
Medical care without health coverage is a leading cause of bankruptcy.
The increased cost of health coverage due to Obama’s bag-of-suck is about to take its place. Outlandish deductibles, higher co-pays, increased premiums, and you pretend none of that exists. And if the hospital is out-of-area, your new ObamaCare plan won’t cover it, which kills the tourism industry, because who wants to leave home if there is a chance that you might get into an auto accident while traveling? But hey, who needs to leave home? We’ve got to work more to pay those higher premiums…
Steve. Donate or disappear.
Leigh, what did your boys do for health insurance at ages 19, 20, 21, 22, while they were in college?
Aside from the fact that virtually all colleges have health services or offer some version of same, the point is moot as the discussion of importance is the 23, 24,25, and 26 year old “children”. The point is that this cohort should be out of college, working, or in some form of grad school, which brings us back to the point about college/university health services.
Precisely, Eingang.
Medical care without health coverage is a leading cause of bankruptcy.
This is false. Divorce is casual to bankruptcy more so than medical expenditures which may be worked out with the providers. We have talked about this ad nauseum.
Hernia surgery is not elective, depending on circumstance. Rather like Caesarian section births.
“When I was young, my father had a serious heart attack. He survived, but we lost our house and car. Under the Canadian Medicare system, though, we would have kept the house and car and would have just had to pay the inheritance tax.” — Emo Philips
So your son’s insurance was provided by the college? So you paid his insurance through tuition? The people who awarded scholarships paid his insurance? Who paid your son’s insurance while he was in college?
I didn’t say it was the #1 cause. Read carefully.
Quote:
If it isn’t #1, it isn’t leading. So which one was the lie?
So your son’s insurance was provided by the college? So you paid his insurance through tuition? The people who awarded scholarships paid his insurance? Who paid your son’s insurance while he was in college?
Do you have a point ? (I know, a silly question) To repeat, the issue is not those in the 19-22 y/o cohort, but the 23-26 y/o cohort who should be out of college, working, or in some form of grad school.
So your son’s insurance was provided by the college? So you paid his insurance through tuition? The people who awarded scholarships paid his insurance? Who paid your son’s insurance while he was in college? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52377#comment-1047844
You keep missing the point, moron. That point being what Eingang mentioned and Leigh was agreeing with — that what college students are doing are IRRELEVANT to those 23, 24, 25 & 26 year-olds that are still being treated by the government as children.
Children don’t get a vote, so why should those who are merely classified as children?
If it isn’t #1, it isn’t leading. So which one was the lie?
Beat me to it, Drum.
I’m betting ole steve is a cut ‘n’ paster.
If it isn’t #1, it isn’t leading.
Reminds me of the old joke about dogs pulling sleds: “If you aren’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.”
We have two problems to examine here:
1.) We have the issue of “contributes to vs. causes” regarding medical expenses and bankruptcy. If you go bankrupt and have unpaid medical bills then did they cause your bankruptcy? Or did your unpaid mortgage? Or your recent lack of income due to unemployment? A bankruptcy involving unpaid medical expenses is not necessarily due solely to medical expenses.
2.) Medical coverage. The story seems to be that no health coverage causes bankruptcy but it seems that most people who had a bankruptcy and unpaid medical expenses also had health coverage. Thus having Obamacare coverage may not in any way prevent bankruptcy or guarantee treatment.
Thus this whole argument is a lot of shit.
The reality is that Obamacare is STILL an expensive, unreliable, unpopular disaster despite all the Pollyanna whitewash that has been compulsively applied to it by the guilty and the clueless.
If you go bankrupt and have unpaid medical bills then did they cause your bankruptcy?
To the bean counters pushing an agenda, yes. It is the same crap puled with “tobacco related deaths” wherein if you are struck and killed by a meteorite while enjoying a fine cigar, you get counted as a smoking related death.
>So your son’s insurance was provided by the college? <
no the college offered a catastrophic plan that you obamacare clowns say are "substandard' and they were dropped. gah some damn proggtarded.
As I am fond of numbers, I went back to look more closely at the link HMNWS provided, and found he brings the comedy gold. From his “In real news” link:
Since the HHS has refused to release real numbers, we know how accurate that is.
From the FAQ:
So – once again, HMNWS hasn’t bothered to read his own cite, and provides a totally biased link that is as accurate in its counting as HHS is. In other words, not at all.
…actually happens in this country. Unlike medical care with Obamacare.
>Who paid your son’s insurance while he was in college?<
who is paying the premiums of the 6,000,000 peeps you claim are "enrolled"?
So if the ACA let people stay on their parents insurance until they were 22, you’d be fine with it? Or, they wouldn’t need it because they’d be in college (paid for with loans, parents, or scholarships) and college would provide it? Or, they wouldn’t have gone to college and would be working and paying their own insurance?
Be specific.
It would be much better to go with made up numbers by some dude contributing to Newsmax as a basis for discussion. Please feel free to cite more accurate stats.
Jesus H Christ. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you insinuating that smoking is benign?
Cite a source. And even if that’s true, was it coverage that had annual or lifetime maximums? Did they hit those caps?
So you’re really so fucking stupid that you don’t know the difference between “a leading cause” and “the leading cause”.
Notice that this site, that lists leading causes of death, lists more than one thing
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
In other words, on that site, accidents are a leading cause of death. Much like medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy.
So, before you say anything else, answer the question, are you really that fucking dumb?
ofa needs better trolls. they be substandard obamacare trolls.
Also, since Steven B. Thievin couldn’t be bothered to read what I linked, I’ll bring the relevant passages here:
When the goal is process instead of results, everything goes to shit.
Bored now.
>but are you insinuating that smoking is benign?
ask the potheads on colorado
In emergency rooms. Have fun taking your own cast of and your own stitches out. Good luck getting that knee / hip / shoulder replaced. Have fun living with a hernia (until you have a blockage), or any other condition that requires surgery but won’t kill you immediately.
McGehee, are you insured?
not bored. fun to see the rubegoldberg machine shake apart.
I did read your link. There was just no “there” there, except some made up definition of socialism. Luckily there are these things called dictionaries and they have actual definitions for words. You might want to socialism up before you keep writing about it.
>Have fun taking your own cast of and your own stitches out. Good luck getting that knee / hip / shoulder replaced. Have fun living with a hernia (until you have a blockage), or any other condition that requires surgery but won’t kill you immediately.<
slappy you be industrial grade stupid. have you thought of pol pots cambodia for your human experiments. also does ofa pay good wages?
>” there, except some made up definition of socialism. <
or "healthcare"
So if the ACA let people stay on their parents insurance until they were 22, you’d be fine with it?
Oh for the love of ….
Hey INANE, every private health insurance out there that I know of ALREADY ALLOWED full-time college students to remain on their parents’ insurance until 22.
Been there done that filled out the paperwork to show it to the carrier and paid for it.
You might want to socialism up before you keep writing about it.
You might like to look up the words “metaphor” and “analogy” …
:::spit:::
Please feel free to cite more accurate stats.
Since HHS isn’t releasing them (gee I wonder what level of success it would have to be for the government to conceal the data?), they do not exist, but should that mean you blindly accept the made-up numbers from a cheerleading site?
Of course you do. That’s how you roll.
Notice that this site, that lists leading causes of death, lists more than one thing
Please note that they (unlike you) USE THE PLURAL. See the difference?
I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you insinuating that smoking is benign?
Ah, so because the stats are deliberately misused to mislead, it’s okay for us to accept that you want your fellow Americans to get cancer? (I mean, if we’re going for non sequitors, let’s have a little fun, shall we, heterophobe?)
So you’re really so fucking stupid that you don’t know the difference between “a leading cause” and “the leading cause”.
It was your choice of words, not mine. I understand it just fine. Do you? You haven’t shown it so far…
Death Spiral. You need to get used to that thought.
Darleen, I love what you’ve done with the place. Does Jeff split the proceeds with you?
Hey INANE, every private health insurance out there that I know of ALREADY ALLOWED full-time college students to remain on their parents’ insurance until 22.
The catch was that they actually had to be full-time students, not just adults who were too fucking lazy to get out and make a living.
If the government treats them as children, why should they be given the vote?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism?s=t
So ObamaCare IS socialist. Thanks for admitting that!
You really are stupid, do you realize that?
The catch was that they actually had to be full-time students, not just adults who were too fucking lazy to get out and make a living.
Yep — minimum 12 units a semester.
Now, parents have a moral obligation to help their kids … sometimes they fall on hard times due to circumstances beyond their control, sometimes they just need a swift kick on the ass out to the Big World to grow up and be responsible.
It does NOT help when Big Daddy Gov enables Peter Pan to live in the basement.
Hahaha. You really can’t read.
A leading cause. You don’t use a plural with that. You wouldn’t say “a leading causes”. You’re such a dipshit.
Check this out:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs297/en/
In specific, “cancer is a leading cause of death”
That doesn’t mean that cancer is “the” leading cause of death (which would be cardiovascular diseases):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate
So you really are that dumb. And now you’re doubling down. You really are the stupidest one here.
In socialism, the government would “own” (in the literal sense), not “regulate” the insurance industry. Drum, what company do you get your insurance through?
How many people are you currently employing? Because there are 20 million people who need jobs, and 5 million job openings.
You keep getting the whole “singular/plural” bit confused, and again, YOU are the one who keeps doubling down on it. All we did was point out that you were lying on at least one of those comments. Which one was it?
THE LEFT WING INTERNET ARGUING CHECKLIST
Skim until Offended
Disqualify that Opinion
Attack, Attack, Attack
Disregard Inconvenient facts
Make Shit Up
Resort to Moral Equivalency
Concern Trolling
When all else fails, Racism!
You’re still stuck on “Disregard Inconvenient Facts”. Time to move on to “make shit up”… (the government has been there since the rollout last fall.)
In socialism, the government would “own” (in the literal sense), not “regulate” the insurance industry.
So what ObamaCare really is, is fascism.
Glad we got that straight.
In socialism, the government would “own” (in the literal sense), not “regulate” the insurance industry.
No, moron, that would be “fascism” (state ownership), rather than the softer stage of “community risk pooling” which is “socialism”. DO try and keep up.
Or not. I need the laughs.
>In socialism, the government would “own” (in the literal sense), not “regulate” <
and the difference what exactly ofa troll?
I stand corrected. ObamaCare IS fascism…
1. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
>No, moron, that would be “fascism”<
moron be on a 1930's proggtard wet dream
slapphead
how’s the “global warming” going? like back in the ussr?
How many people are you currently employing? Because there are 20 million people who need jobs, and 5 million job openings.
Time to bring in a shitload of low-wage workers from south of the border, and raise the minimum wage for citizens, right? That’ll fix those numbers, right, DV? Right?
If not, we can always pass some more laws, because that always fixes the problems that were caused by the last set of laws no one read before voting on them…
a) No, it is an abysmal and unnecessary piece of “legislation”, but I am fine with kids in school staying on their parent’s plans. b) Never begin a sentence with a conjunction, but brilliant deduction on the option, Sherlock. c) Ibid.
a) So made up numbers are fine with you. Your intellectual rigor is astounding. b) Accurate stats don’t exist as the government seems reluctant to release them.
If that is what you inferred, you are an idiot, as you have frequently proved. However, epidemiology is central to what I do, and though you may not like it, that is how “smoking related deaths” are frequently counted.
One could fill the Grand Canyon with your ignorance of how medicine is practiced in the US. I have never seen or heard of a place (in the US) where if one is seen without insurance (or a regular doc) at an ER, that follow up is not provided. As far as the “won’t kill you immediately” goes, many teaching hospitals perform routine procedures as it is just as important (in fact necessary for some boards), and “service cases” (as they used to be called in some places) often provide these cases. As an illustration, one city hospital in a major north east city (the name of which you would recognize instantly), with which I am familiar had, in the span of one year on a particular service, exactly one paying customer. In an affiliated private hospital, at least 20% of the cases were service cases.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCoo08z_f30
>I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you insinuating that smoking is benign?<
should pot smoking be legal oh master "healthcare"?
Something else that DV doesn’t want mentioned is the fact that “coverage” has absolutely NOTHING to do with “costs”, and if the insurance company decides that a planned course of treatment is too expensive, they will just refuse to pay for it. But since the insurance companies are no longer concerned with keeping customers (since everyone is now forced to be a customer, whether they want to be or not), there is no appeal.
I wonder whether ObamaCare would pay for the ice floe for Grandma? Would the Gold Plan offer a nice comfy chair for her to sit in while she floats?
onesies for grandma and a dead poly bear
the onesie/ofa brain trust is “working” on smoking pot. sandra fluke is consulted
Would the Gold Plan offer a nice comfy chair for her to sit in while she floats?
Yes, but not a recliner, for that you need the Platinum, and if you want a massage recliner, you need the Cubic Ziconium plan.
But since the insurance companies are no longer concerned with keeping customers (since everyone is now forced to be a customer, whether they want to be or not), there is no appeal.
It’s not just that … HHS has the final word on what is/will be “acceptable” medical procedures and even private docs will be forced to comply otherwise they will be blacklisted by insurance companies as ObamaCare will force them not to do business with any doctor “out of compliance” with HHS decisions.
We are on the road to NHS’s “NICE” death panels.
…even private docs will be forced to comply otherwise they will be blacklisted by insurance companies…
Yep, but what that will generate is private clinics not dependent on the insurance companies, then there will really be a two tier system, unless, of course, the health commies ban them too. If that happens, medical tourism will take off. However, I can see the health commies taxing that, even though it would be irrelevant as only the really well heeled would be able to afford the tourism anyway.
potpl @ pg 212
>Is there a cure for this pathological hate? Seeing that scepticism
and defeatism are no use at all, we have to find one! Violence is no
solution to violence, since it merely breeds hate. The only real and
lasting power is ‘the power of the powerless’. The powerless have no
power, either because they have lost it or because their internal
‘make-up’ has never allowed them to serve it. Or there are those who
have never striven for it, or never wanted it. But they are strong.
Their strength has a different source than power, but it exists in the
world. For Christians, this ‘make-up’ is the highest moral ‘qualification’
– Jesus’ beatitudes of the Sermon on the Mount: ‘Happy are
the poor in spirit’ (Matt.: 5,3). It is they who have renounced
immediate means, preferring a deeper teleology, a broader
eschatology and more substantial goals. ‘Happy are the gentle, for
they shall have the earth for their heritage’ (Matt.: 5,5). The gentle
will implement the most thoroughgoing, generalized and lasting
revolution. They do not conquer the earth, nor dominate it, but
instead shall transform it into a heritage for humanity and shall
answer for it to God and to the planet’s peoples<
unless, of course, the health commies ban them too.
Massachusetts was already basing the licensing of medical professionals on whether they accepted the lower payments.
http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/house/186/ht04pdf/ht04452.pdf
“How many people are you currently employing? Because there are 20 million people who need jobs, and 5 million job openings.”
And that long term unemployment has NOTHING to with excessive regulations, high corporate taxes, health care costs, minimum wage, or any other leftist policies, AMIRITE? LOL
“Hahaha. You really can’t read.”
Shorter steve: I don’t know much of anything about the drivel I cut and pasted and can’t effectively defend it because I’m a bit of a dullard.
“Jesus H Christ. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you insinuating that smoking is benign? ”
Shorter Steve: Skim until Offended
THE LEFT WING INTERNET ARGUING CHECKLIST
Skim until Offended
Disqualify that Opinion
Attack, Attack, Attack
Disregard Inconvenient facts
Make Shit Up
Resort to Moral Equivalency
Concern Trolling
When all else fails, Racism!
“So you really are that dumb. And now you’re doubling down. You really are the stupidest one here. ”
Shorter Steve: Attack, Attack, Attack /Make Shit Up /Disqualify that Opinion
THE LEFT WING INTERNET ARGUING CHECKLIST
Skim until Offended
Disqualify that Opinion
Attack, Attack, Attack
Disregard Inconvenient facts
Make Shit Up
Resort to Moral Equivalency
Concern Trolling
When all else fails, Racism!
Palaeo,
I think he is more into “Make Shit Up”, with a secondary of “Disregard Inconvenient Facts”.
“made up definition of socialism.”
Which differs from your own made up version? Lol. It’s a question of national versus international socialism steve. or il fascismo if you prefer. It’s still centralized authoritarian rule by regulation and degree no matter how an idiot tries to slice it.
THE EDWIN HAWKINS SINGERS-OH HAPPY DAY
ed hawkins – “love is the only way”
Mahalia Jackson – Oh Happy Day
for slapphead
Mahalia Jackson in concert 1961 – Hamburg
Socialism up, people!
It’s the new *pwloop*
Jessie Jackson Jr. in jail 2013 — Humbug
*Humbug*
That should do it.
The next sound we hear will be shitstainsteve’s ass hitting the pavements, after of course the armadillo has chewed his eyeballs clean out of his sockets.
/metaphors OFF
He’s not going to be hanging around pressing his snotty nose to the windows trying to think up another nom de internet so he can get back in is he?
steve, there’s nothing much he knows and he’s damned proud of it!
Steven B. Thievin, please write a 10,000 word essay explaining why that is any of your business, or the government’s, and then cram it up your ass.
Every health care provider licensed in the commonwealth which provides covered services to a person covered under “Affordable Health Plans” must provide such service to any such person, as a condition of their licensure,
The wording on that is weird … The first part of the sentence speaks to the condition that the provider is already provides services to a person with a particular insurance. What if the provider specifically refuses to serve such people? e.g. cash only?
What if the provider specifically refuses to serve such people? e.g. cash only?
Yep, if you take any single gomer covered under obamacare, you have to take all comers covered under obamacare. The only other option is to exclude all obamacare patients.
The result is that there will be practices that take only non-obamacare “cadillac” plans, or cash. When that happens, expect that the health commies will prohibit such practices, and force every doc to take obamacare patients.
OK. Get the fuck out.
Specific enough?
I was going to add “Fuck off” but I like your approach better, Pablo.
Does this sound something like a business owner, i.e. someone who has created his own and a number of other jobs, would ever even think, let alone say? Surely it does not. So why is it still here pulling our collective chain?
Someone give me a shout when its days of pissing on the rug here are over.
Y’all keep arguing steve on steve’s terms.
A battle was lost when years ago the Dems shoved Ocare down the nation’s throat. Another was lost with the nation’s non-response to the Robert’s decision.
Another battle was lost when subsequent actions failed to rule the damn thing unenforceable at the State level. And yet another when the right, defeated at every prior turn, kept mewling about a broken website.
So they just fix it. Taking their time and spending us broker just because there’s nothing we’ll do about it.
Remarkably, none of these battles preempted Ocare on standing, originalist principle – the nation’s default setting is now offered as a passive, after-the-fact argument with leftist kooks who haven’t the character to debate honestly about what really matters.
So the war was lost when a nation failed its obligations to itself. Not when a website didn’t work.
Next stop? Single payer. Because they could and because they can. There is customer demand for it, witness steve.
How do we know this? Because there are no battles they shall not win owing to there being no end to laxity and sloth on the right here in Medicare Nation. The same nation that brought you creeping nationalized everything since about 1900, not 2008.
Ocare was the principled stand to take in a medical system already ravaged for decades by crony statist capitalism? In a nation already bred for decades to look to government for healthcare? Hardly.
That. Arguing with steve about the rivets in all the whistle stops on the rails to tyranny is the wrong argument. Just like all the lost battles, it’s intellectually deficient.
steve wins only until America stops losing. Which, owing to dismal character like his all across the fruited plain, it still isn’t ready for.
JHo, no one cares about steve or what he think—if indeed he does.
He’s like a hacky-sack. We’re just kicking him around until a real news item actually gets reported.
@ Eingang Ausfahrt
Raise your hand if you’ve ever taken out your own stitches.
::Raises Hand::
It is not that hard to cut stitch thread then pull out the thread. Good grief. If you cannot do something as basic as taking out a stitch, then you probably should remain living in Mom’s basement.
Blake, I have also taken off my own cast, again, not that hard even without a cast cutter.
Done both. Not a big deal.
Good. Because medicine had been wrecked long before Ocare rolled in. Any comparative analysis between before and after is as fruitless as any other comparison between the US system and literally another health system in the universe.
It’s like arguing budget responsibility in the era of printing presses. Wrong paradigm entirely.
Words matter and how you get there counts, as has been said.
Because medicine had been wrecked long before Ocare rolled in.
What do you mean by “medicine”, and what by wrecked ?
Simple solutions to reduce the costs of health care in the US:
1. Tort reform. Make any medical malpractice case “loser pays all court costs and attorneys fees”. This will eliminate the nuisance suit by the guy hoping to settle out of court for a quick payday, while still allowing those who have been truly harmed to pursue their case.
2. Remove interstate insurance limits. You can buy your auto insurance from a company in another state, why not health insurance?
3. Prevent drug companies from offering differing prices to different customers for the same drug. If Canada wants to buy US-made drugs, then let them pay what US citizens pay for it, rather than extorting lower prices. Or they can try to invent their own medicines.
For the trillion-plus dollars ObamaCare will cost the US economy, they could build, equip, staff and fund “free” hospitals in every medium-to-large city in the country.
The nation’s healthcare system had been a hyper-regulated command economy for years before Obamacare, Eingang Ausfahrt. Any resemblance between it and free markets has been purely coincidental. At best.
The right failed all the way back at Medicare and Medicaid. The notion that there are good and bad socialisms is terrifically faulty.
I submit those are faulty solutions, Drumwaster. Rather, each are manifestations of the outcomes of a central State rightly prohibited from interference in private matters.
Legislating them adds destructive positive feedback to a system already toppling from excess. You don’t write law perhaps to correct the effects of prior bad law.
Rather, each are manifestations of the outcomes of a central State rightly prohibited from interference in private matters.
Which was my point. Get rid of any laws that prevent those conditions (and passing laws setting them will automatically repeal any law to the contrary), and the system will auto-correct. It is the Federal Government that has the authority to allow (or even require) interstate insurance, under the Commerce Clause, and that is even a legitimate use of the clause.
Loser pays makes for cheaper care to the consumer (by getting rid of the CYA testing) and cheaper costs for the provider. Win-win.
Interstate insurance allows for much larger risk pools, making insurance cheaper. Win-win.
And when Canadians, Europeans, et alia, have to start carrying the full cost of their “free” health care, they might realize how much of a charity case they have been, and their system will need fixing. But that is their problem. Win-win.
“Capitalism isn’t an ideology; it’s what happens when people are left alone.”
Eingang Ausfahrt and Leigh…it doesn’t surprise me that you think it’s no big deal either.
Unlike our resident fool.
JHoward,
Got it, and you’ll get no argument from me on those points, but just as having health insurance does not equal health care, I think the term “health care financing” is better than “medicine” for describing that which is wrecked. Having seen health care delivery (“medicine”) on 5 continents, though there are the occasional places in individual countries where health care equals the standard of care in the US, it is never surpassed despite the roadblocks and land mines thrown in by the government and lawyers.
No argument with either of those. How about you suggest that your Republican representatives include those in a round of fixes to the law, and actually vote for them, rather than repeal, repeal, defund, repeal.
That’s 2% of healthcare costs.
Pardon me while I concern troll, but wouldn’t that be a new regulation (fascism) on the pharma industry? In your classic libertarian world, why can’t they charge whatever they want, wherever they want? Or put another way, why are Americans so stupid that they are willing to pay more for the same drug as Canadians and Europeans?
My post was facetious because you guys are the ones calling rich people “job creators”. Jobs come out of broad demand, not the 1% getting 30% richer.
When that happens, expect those doctors to go broke all on their own.
I keep hearing about how you can get great care in the ER, that you don’t have to pay for if you tell enough of a sob story, and you can get all kinds of free procedures done on you by excellent medical students, so the question is relevant:
Who here carries medical insurance? And if you carry medical insurance, why?
And yet the US has worse outcomes. Strange.
it doesn’t surprise me that you think it’s no big deal either. Unlike our resident fool.
Blake, I’ll bet he’s one of those guys who will sit around with a fever, tight chest and a dry cough until he can’t breathe and HAS TO GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM!!! because he has bacterial pneumonia.
Just a wild guess.
OT: Jay Carney is wearing a beard. Claire Shipman must be out of town.
And yet the US has worse outcomes.
Repetition does not make that nonsense true, steve. We’ve talked about this, as well.
Did you know that if you repeat the US has worse outcomes like, a thousand times, Obama bends the curve?
Seriously, it’s true. I heard it on NPR!
That’s 2% of healthcare costs.
So unless we can chop costs down to 0% we shouldn’t try anything but complete government takeover of the industry. Got it.
Does your level of stupidity hurt? It should.
Pardon me while I concern troll, but wouldn’t that be a new regulation (fascism) on the pharma industry?
No, it is the prevention of an otherwise criminal act on the part of foreign governments. Or is extortion okay as long as it is only governments doing it?
Or put another way, why are Americans so stupid that they are willing to pay more for the same drug as Canadians and Europeans?
Because they aren’t given the option, since these deals aren’t being hashed out with anyone representing US citizens at the table. Much like the governments negotiating employment benefits for government workers. With itself.
because you guys are the ones calling rich people “job creators”
Show me a single poor person that has created a single job. Oh, right, facts don’t matter in your world.
Jobs come out of broad demand, not the 1% getting 30% richer.
You think 20 million people demanding jobs would just create them out of thin air, if that were the case. You don’t make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. You do it by moving the whole Bell curve to the right. “A rising tide…” and all that.
BTW, those who are referred to as “poor” here in the US would be middle-class in many “first world” countries, and fantastically wealthy in third world contexts. When you define “poverty” as “20% of the population”, you will (amazingly enough) end up with 20% classed as “poor”.
I know, maths iz hard.
And yet the US has worse outcomes.
Except where it doesn’t, and only when you are comparing apples to bricks. You’ve already had that argument shoved so far down your throat, you will need to unlace your shoes to get at it.
Steve, pay to play here. Don’t be a taker.
When that happens, expect those doctors to go broke all on their own.
Tell that to al the “concierge” docs.
I keep hearing about how you can get great care in the ER, that you don’t have to pay for if you tell enough of a sob story, and you can get all kinds of free procedures done on you by excellent medical students…
Why you continue to display your ignorance is a mystery, what is not a mystery is that you are so dense you actually bend light. Some of the best medical facilities in the world, e.g., the Mayo Clinic, are teaching hospitals. In teaching hospitals, procedures are done by a hierarchy of physicians. If the facility is a university, the lowest rung are the medical student, then the residents, then the attendings (docs board certified in their field and professors if at a university). Any procedure done is directly supervised by one or two rungs higher, and the complexity of procedures is likewise stratified, and generally only Chief Residents allowed to fly solo.
So, if you are indigent and wind up in an ER, or seen in a free clinic for your hernia, no, it will not be fixed by a “medical student”, but by someone already graduated, and guided by a more experienced senior physician. So, you can take another bit of your misinformation and shove it somewhere near your pancreas by the southern route.
Outcomes – what Leigh said. That you prefer to wallow in your ignorance is sad.
HMNWS is a textbook example of Dunning Kruger Effect , Eingang. E.g., having never worked in the medical field, he knows more than any doctor.
The current administration suffers from DKE, as well.
having never worked in the medical field, he knows more than any doctor. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52377#comment-1048025
Or any nurse, or any insurance agent, or any economist, or any lawyer, or…
“Expertise in one field does not carry over into other fields. But experts often think so. The narrower their field of knowledge the more likely they are to think so.” — R. A. Heinlein
Heh.
Spot on, Leigh, except for HMNWS, as an pan-incompetent, it should read, “…for all skills…”, and he would never get to step 4 as step 3 would prevent him getting any training in a useful skill or trade.
Eingang, he’s still stuck on stupid, actually at “make shit up”:
THE LEFT WING INTERNET ARGUING CHECKLIST
Skim until Offended
Disqualify that Opinion
Attack, Attack, Attack
Disregard Inconvenient facts
Make Shit Up
Resort to Moral Equivalency
Concern Trolling
When all else fails, Racism!
(h/t: palaeo)
I am giddy with anticipation for him to get to racism.
Steven B. Thievin, you still need to write another 9,939 words in your essay, and then cram said essay up your ass, before you will receive a reply.
Magically, of course. Spontaneously, industry springs forth to fill that broad demand. Or would, if those pesky rich people would get out of the way.
Broads are always in demand. Need help, ask a sailor.
Do you remember the part where you never supplied any independent data to show that the US has better health outcomes.
Fine, do tort reform. Just don’t think it’s going to make a noticeable dent. So what else have you got.
You’re saying it’s illegal for pharma companies to charge different amounts in the different countries? Who in the US is responsible for “extorting” us? The government is demanding higher prices? Insurers are insisting on paying more?
Every time they buy a pair of pants, or eat out, or shop at Target.
Go look up demand in an econ 101 course. I’m talking about demand for products and services creating the jobs needed to fulfill that demand. A rich person doesn’t buy 3000 pairs of pants, or eat out 3000 times a month.
Way to lower expectation. “You make $20 / day. You’re not poor. Compare yourself to Ehtopia.”
I clicked the button, but it wants to send it to someone named Jeff. How would I route my funds to Darleen (you know, the one doing most of the work)?
Supply independent data showing the US having better outcomes.
All %0.3 of doctors? Let me know when it hits 5%.
You never answered the question about whether you carry insurance or not.
These are all companies owned by poor people, I’d venture.
All %0.3 of doctors? Let me know when it hits 5%.
No problem, it will get there, “The number of concierge physicians is still relatively small (4,400 in 2012), but has increased 30% over the past year. As ObamaCare unfolds, Forbes’ Bruce Japsen reports that as many as 10% of physicians are considering switching to a concierge practice.” and we’ll throw in all the plastic surgeons and shrinks who are cash-only just to sweeten the pot.
You never answered the question about whether you carry insurance or not.
Whether I have insurance is irrelevant to the fact that the medically indigent can get care for emergency and routine problems from a number of sources.
You really need to avoid trying to discuss things about which you know nothing, but then, you never would be able to say anything, could you ?
Do you remember the part where you never supplied any independent data to show that the US has better health outcomes.
No, what was done was shredding your pathetic source as the “National Enquirer” of data (inaccurate, incomplete, inconsistent and biased), and provide multiple examples where foreign medical practices have worse outcomes (such as leaving women to give birth in the hallways and elderly die of thirst while nurses step over them). Not the same question, but the same answer.
So what else have you got.
Nice comeback. Try GET RID OF GOVERNMENTAL INTERFERENCE as a next step.
Every time they buy a pair of pants, or eat out, or shop at Target.
No, that is just shopping. No jobs were created by them shopping, since the jobs associated with that trip WERE ALREADY THERE. (Else how did the pants arrive on the store shelf? Try and think things through, and you won’t look quite so stupid.)
Go look up demand in an econ 101 course.
Go look up “supply” and see where that supply comes from. You can demand a flying saucer all you want, but until a supply arrives, it doesn’t mean shit. And it will NOT be poor people who supply the flying saucer, no matter how many zeroes you have.
Way to lower expectation.
You’re the one pretending that Medicaid signups are “success”. Care to rethink?
Supply independent data showing the US having better outcomes.
Ibid.
Working as a clerk at Target now equals job creator? There must have been some major revisions to job creator since I was in grad school.
I clicked the button, but it wants to send it to someone named Jeff. How would I route my funds to Darleen (you know, the one doing most of the work)?
For this comment alone, you deserve to be banned.
To hell with you, the kids who must suffer with your genes, and the parents who rue the day they met.
The Target clerk voted for the Unicorn Prince, by which she created jobs for Mexican drug cartel gun smugglers, just for starters.
All %0.3 of doctors? Let me know when it hits 5%.
Done, and exceeded by almost an entire order of magnitude. 40% of doctors in the US are already in practices owned by the doctor(s) (either sole proprietor or partnership), rather than an HMO or hospital. Good thing you don’t actually bother to look at reality when firing off your stupidity. I’d say that you were a fucking moron.
The Target clerk voted for the Unicorn Prince, by which she created jobs for Mexican drug cartel gun smugglers, just for starters.
Aha! Lib Logic. I get it now.
Thanks, McGehee.
Steve, don’t try to get out from under. It looks like you’re trying to skate.
Give, or go away.
Sweeten the pot, or say goodbye.
Ante up, or away.
Bestow, or begone.
I’m saving “F” phrases for last.
Drum,
The shift Nimrod will take is that those practices take insurance vice cash-only. The real question is how many will take obamacare, and how many will switch to cash only, particularly if licensing is tied to obamacare.
Meanwhile, a raging success for socialized medicine !
Oh, he means the gray market medicos like on that TV show…
I don’t expect that to become a serious number until next year, when the first numbers of refuseniks become available, and laws get passed forcing them into involuntary servitude. (e.g., “You WILL accept this as payment for your services or you won’t get a license, and you will go to jail for trying to practice without a license.”)
See the Belgian doctor’s strike of 1964.
I’d just like to remind Thievin’ Steven that nationalized health care services are generally run by cold, calculating, heartless, semi-sociopathic bastards like myself. The decisions we make are based on a grim analysis based on costs, outcomes, and political pressure, and have nothing to do with the needs or desires of any particular individuals trapped in the system.
The fact that TS would sign up for such a system, given the historical examples of the terrible outcomes every time such systems have been implemented, leads me to believe that he is some sort of masochist. That he would consign the rest of us to suffer with him makes him a monster, who deserves the punishment fitting for one who would sell another man’s children into slavery.
Be gone, Steven. When you’re not evil, you’re boring. Except sometimes you’re both.
Not sure about the TV show, but there is the American Academy of Private Physicians if you want a “concierge” doc.
I don’t expect that to become a serious number until next year, when the first numbers of refuseniks become available, and laws get passed forcing them into involuntary servitude.
I expect that might happen in the communist states like Massachusetts, California, and Oregon, but not in the free states.
“And yet the US has worse outcomes. Strange.”
And bullshit. The outcomes are measured with metrics that favor small populations with a centralized payment scheme and ignore people who are not treated due to anticipation of a risk of treatment failure, which is how those “outcomes are boosted in the first place. Better outcomes is of no value in comparing systems apples to apples. The stat has, as you say, no “there” there. It’s an advocacy bullet point for dumb seals like you to compulsively arp to steve.
This “factoid” has been investigated and shut down multiple times and you are incrfedibly stupid to try and put it back in play.
eingang, physicians will be free right up to the point the “National Board of Physicians” is created and some sort of federal license is required in order to practice medicine. Said federal license will require acceptance of federally sanctioned insurance. Physicians will be bought off through being offered some sort of State stipend/bribe.
I can hardly wait to work with such a physician.
Actually, I’m expecting we’re going to wind up with a return to “fee for service” medical care and Obamacare will merely be a catastrophically expensive catastrophic health care policy.
“Ehtopia”
steve has while pulling a typo on Ethiopia, accidently coined a pithy phrase. I’m going to use it.
It describes a society where things are so crappy and badly run that no one even pays attention to what the government is doing any more. People just distract themselves and advert their eyes from anything that might cause them a headache and lash out at people who try to get them more involved. It’s an Ehtopia.
Okay, it’s more of a term than a phrase. Still pithy.
You’re the dumbest one here. Pop quiz – why do stores bring on extra help around Christmas? extra demand Demand creates jobs.
Those businesses don’t exist because there’s some rich guy at the top. There’s some rich guy at the top because those businesses exist. Those businesses exist because there’s demand for what they offer. That demand is generally not coming from the super wealthy, who (again), don’t buy 3000 pairs of pants or eat 3000 meals or are the bulk of shoppers that you find at Target.
Man, you guys are complete imbeciles.
Polls about what people are considering are meaningless. Some percentage of Democrats said they would move to Canada if Bush was re-elected. Far less actually moved. Come back when you have a percentage of actual doctors that are concierge.
Of course it’s relevant. You claim people can get great healthcare (best in the world) through the ER and teaching hospitals. So are you insured or not? Doesn’t seem like a question that should make you get all defensive.
Pick one ( ) Yes ( ) No
You have no data to assert that the US has better health outcomes than other countries. Unless you produce said data, you’ve conceded that point.
Going from uninsured to Medicaid is a success. Are you insured kevin?
So you don’t understand what we’re talking about. We’re not talking about who owns the practice. We’re talking about who pays for the Dr appointment. The patient? An insurer?
I think you’re just being dumb on purpose now. No one is really as stupid as you come across.
Obamacare is not an insurance plan. As a result of the ACA, I was able to obtain insurance through Providence. The question is, will those doctors take Providence, or Moda, or HealthNet, or any other insurer. If they don’t, I don’t see most of them being viable businesses because the only people who can pay cash only are people who (1) need very little healthcare (at this moment) or (2) are very rich.
So again, until you have a good percentage of doctors who are cash only, you must admit that you’re doing nothing other than baseless speculation.
“Do you remember the part where you never supplied any independent data to show that the US has better health outcomes.”
No, and neither do you. Do you seriously assume that “outcomes quality” data is independently assessed in any meaningful sense and that outcome quality can be measured in an apples to apples way between two systems that measure those outcomes differently ?
No one who lives under those alleged terrible systems would trade their for ours. No one in Japan, German, France, Austria. Even though people are dissatisfied with the system in the UK, they want theirs fixed, to a transition to ours. Those so called terrible system insure everyone and have better outcomes for a lower cost. That you want to cling to a system that excludes 50 million people, costs more, and has worse outcomes makes you a blithering idiot.
BTW, are you insured?
“You’re the dumbest one here. Pop quiz – why do stores bring on extra help around Christmas? extra demand Demand creates jobs. ”
Despite all the noise, demand by itself creates nothing. At all. Demand in a restricted market may well not produce anything. The dumbest one here is you steve.
“No one who lives under those alleged terrible systems would trade their for ours ”
Make shit up.
If you’re asserting that no data exists to compare us outcomes with other countries then, on what basis, do you assert (as fact) that the US has the best healthcare in the world?
“Those so called terrible system insure everyone and have better outcomes for a lower cost.”
As measured differently, often to glorify the system that people are dissatisfied with. Big whoop.
Target was not created by masses of poor people wanting to buy toilet paper. Target was created by wealthy investors as a means of providing toilet paper to consumers of whatever income level.
The extra people who shop retail at Christmas do not create jobs; the jobs come from the owners of the retail shops who want to handle the extra business. It’s a symbiotic arrangement, I’ll grant you, but I have never in my life drawn a paycheck from a poor man.
By the way — it’s adorable that you keep insisting, louder and louder, that we’re all the stupid ones and you’re the only person around who knows how the world works. It’s people like you that make me wish there were a way to convey red-faced foot-stamping in a comments section.
You really are the fly that keeps regrowing its wings. I almost feel bad that we keep pulling them off, but then I see how much you enjoy it. And unlike your other masochism, this one doesn’t involve causing untold misery to three hundred million of your countrymen.
Let’s say a business can server, at most, 1000 people per day. One day 1100 show up, and then 1200. The business has a choice – bring on staff and scale up to handle the increased demand or turn away customers.
In your world, apparently, target has 1 employee who does everything because demand has no effect.
Even though people are dissatisfied with the system in the UK, they want theirs fixed, to a transition to ours.
I want mine fixed, rather than convert. Why are they good and I’m evil?
“If you’re asserting that no data exists to compare us outcomes with other countries then, on what basis, do you assert (as fact) that the US has the best healthcare in the world?”
I’m asserting that your claim about better outcomes is based on advocacy and not apples to apples. I’m asserting that the combination of your deep personal naivete and skewed and cherry picked data is not sufficient to canonize better outcomes at lower costs. I don’t give a fuck abotu your challenges because you’ve failed to ever establish control over the ground you with to defend. Until you do, who cares about your questions?
“Let’s say a business can server, at most, 1000 people per day.”
No, let’s just take a moment to pull our big fat stupid head out of our ass, and stop trying to say that demand in a vacuum spontaneously creates jobs and value because you want to ride that axiom to some sad pretense of your having a basic understanding of economics 101. No one is saying that demand never does anything. Just that demand alone is worthless.
Those businesses don’t exist because there’s some rich guy at the top. There’s some rich guy at the top because those businesses exist.
So, according to that rather bizarre statement, businesses arise de novo by spontaneous generation, and then some rich guy takes it over or is installed as supreme leader.
You really are the Energizer Bunny of stupid.
Fuel-energy won’t move a car without an engine or transmission either. You remove mechanisms and the system stops being a system.
why do stores bring on extra help around Christmas? extra demand Demand creates jobs
And how many poor people were hiring at Christmastime? I mean, since it’s the poor people that have all those jobs to offer…
Those businesses don’t exist because there’s some rich guy at the top.
Just ask Sam Walton and his progeny.
You have no data to assert that the US has better health outcomes than other countries.
Reality doesn’t need proof. It just is. It is up to YOU to prove to the contrary, and you have failed.
Going from uninsured to Medicaid is a success.
Not for the people who have to pay those extra bills. Medicaid uses those more expensive ER services at a rate 40% higher than those with no insurance at all. But it was never about getting people insured, it was about destroying the health insurance industry and pushing government-run health care.
You’re the one pushing for fascism, remember? Why do you hate the free market, Dog Vomit?
We’re talking about who pays for the Dr appointment. The patient? An insurer? – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52377#comment-1048160
Thank you for admitting your ignorance, since the patient pays for the doctor’s care whether it is he himself paying cash per use, or pre-paying through an annual fee, or having a third party handle the finances. If it is for an individual, it is a trustee setup, but if for a group, then it is called “risk pooling” (aka “insurance”). Either way, they still don’t have to accept certain forms of payment, just as I didn’t have to accept credit cards when running my own business, if I so chose.
You’re still an idiot.
Those so called terrible system insure everyone and have better outcomes for a lower cost.
Only 997 repetitions to go before you earn that “I’m an Obama Suckup” coffee mug… keep going. Doesn’t make it any more true, mind, but everyone has to have a goal.
There is data to indicate that the US has higher costs and worse outcomes. There is no data to the contrary. Therefor, claims that the US has the best healthcare in the world are, by definition baseless. You can toss all the rhetoric you want, but it doesn’t change the logic of the situation one iota.
Or at least the system as it exists post change stops conforming to axioms based on observation of the complete system.
“There is data to indicate that the US has higher costs and worse outcomes.”
And there are significant problems in using that data to establish “better outcomes” in a meaningful manner. This is, as has been explained many times, due to differences in metrics. Which is why your citation of the data to support an invalid conclusion is worthless and rejected. The methodology of the comparison is shit in both accuracy and precision.
Don’t treat edge cases and you get better outcomes. Restrict the definition of everyone to everyone who gets treatment and you get better outcomes. And those better outcomes are illusions based on skewed data collection.
There is data to indicate that the US has higher costs and worse outcomes. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52377#comment-1048177
There is also data to indicate that the earth is flat. There is absolutely nothing that can be said to “prove” to the contrary when you are limitng the data to only what can be perceived when your head is held to the ground. You might not like how that data is collected, but that makes it no less valid.
Of course, you could point out that the data thus collected is so limited and biased in its methodology that it is not valid in the real world.
Precisely the situation you are in. You have offered data collected with your head held to the ground, and are ignoring the numerous times it has ALREADY BEEN REFUTED.
Then you are claiming some supposed victory, with reality staring you in the face.
Chanting is not good apologetics nor good polemics. Consensus is not science. Science is a goal not a destination. Models are not automatically useful. Reality doesn’t care what you think. Methodology undermines the abstract.
Thievin Steven lectures from a position of arrogant ignorance, as if his arrogance in believing he knows everything makes up for the everything he doesn’t know.
Given Stevie’s “understanding” of how capital works, I think I finally understand why socialism appeals to him so much.
Science is a process governed by principles, the first of which is that the scientist doesn’t yet have the answer to the question he is asking.
Even if millions of scientists before him already asked the same question and each one of them got the same answer, it is scientific to question whether everyone else’s answer is correct, or whether there might be a way to discover a more detailed, and therefore more correct, answer.
But there is never an absolutely 100% correct answer.
There is data to indicate that the US has higher costs and worse outcomes. There is no data to the contrary.
There is, and you posted it, it is unfortunate that you are too analytically challenged that all you can do is spout talking points given to you. Again, your assignment is to explain why Finland has the highest death rate from malaria.
If they don’t, I don’t see most of them being viable businesses because the only people who can pay cash only are people who (1) need very little healthcare (at this moment) or (2) are very rich.
Once again, Make Shit Up. The average cost per year for a private physician is around $1600. That and a catastrophic plan would be cheaper than the most obamacare Pot Metal Plans.
How many “concierge” practices are there ? 5500 and, “Inexpensive practices are driving growth in concierge medicine, which is adding offices at a rate of about 25% a year, says the American Academy of Private Physicians.”
Bread lines are a better outcome that a mall full of trinkets because the bread lines come from the designers of a fair economic system that was developed to follow the direction of history itself.
You can buy that or not buy it. You can buy it in the borad sense and then make excuses for the problems you let yourself see in it (No true scotsman would ‘er do such a thing!)
But nature never gave two shakes what Lysenko thought. And history sure needed to be revised a lot to keep it going in its natural inevitable direction.
And an overwhelming amount that indicates it’s round. Do you have that overwhelming amount that shows the US has the best healthcare in the world?
It hasn’t really been refuted. You just don’t like it. But even if we throw it out, you’re still left with a system that is empirically more expensive and a claim that it is better, and no evidence to support that claim. So do you withdraw the claim that the US has the best system in the world? Because that claim is baseless.
Are you insured, btw?
Once again, Make Shit Up. The average cost per year for a private physician is around $1600. That and a catastrophic plan would be cheaper than the most obamacare Pot Metal Plans. – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52377#comment-1048178
Are you insured?
Are you insured?
Do you have a relevant question ?
What facts do you use as the basis for decisions? Do you assume that there will be a tomorrow, and act accordingly? Or are you really going to go down the “no one can know anything” rabbit hole? Or, if so, stop asserting anything, ever.
Why does this question make you defensive?
Are you insured?
And an overwhelming amount that indicates it’s round.
Not when you are cherry picking the data, as you are. That source of data you have offered is equally limited, biased and INVALID. The number of times and number of ways has been repeatedly pointed out. Which, you, cherry-picking your way, have conveniently ignored.
Try again.
It hasn’t really been refuted.
Ibid. “What’s true is already so. Admitting it doesn’t make it worse.”
Why does this question make you defensive?
Thus begins the “concern trolling”…
Drum, are you insured?
Why does this question make you defensive?
Do ever think about what you write ? If I am uninsured, as I have discussed, I could get care, so your question maes no sense, If I am insured, I can get care, so again the question is moot, so in either event there is no reason to be defensive.
Read the whole thing, as they say. Educate yourself.
Just as another “for instance”, the number of “stillborn births” is invalid because the different countries are using different definitions and standards, yet you think the statistics thus created bear any relation to each other.
Drum, are you insured?
McGehee asked it above, and I never saw an answer, so I will repeat the question:
How is this any of your fucking business?
I will add one other: Under what rationale is it the business of the government?
“Drum, are you insured?”
What’s even remotely pertinent about this? More lame ignorant steve-shit.
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/3/583.abstract
“Conclusion. Differences in birth registration practices for infants weighing <1500 g are primarity responsible for the poor, deteriorating performance by the US in the International rankings of neonatal mortality rates. "
How's the explanation for Finland's malaria rates coming?
“Why does this question make you defensive?”
‘Why are you so angry’ variant.
“And an overwhelming amount that indicates it’s round.”
Oblate Spheroid actually. Now, where’s your overwhelming better outcome evidence that both accounts for and overcomes the methodology issues that make the claim akin to looking at the earth from a worm’s eye view and concluding that it is flat?
“What facts do you use as the basis for decisions? Do you assume that there will be a tomorrow, and act accordingly? Or are you really going to go down the “no one can know anything” rabbit hole? Or, if so, stop asserting anything, ever.”
Oh dear. Look at the “I read a brief summary of Hume” bullshit being woven into an excuse to pervert the whole field of science into mere pseudo-democratic political advocacy.
Drum,
Yep, and as I maintained, and was demonstrated by The Energizer Bunny of Stupid’s link, when you take accidental death out, the US, by some sorcery, all of a sudden was leading the league for life expectancy.
Apples to monkey wrenches Slappy is comparing.
“It hasn’t really been refuted. You just don’t like it.”
Because it has been refuted. You just pretend it hasn’t been refuted because you happen to like it.
No one who lives under those alleged terrible systems would trade their for ours
You are not acquainted with any persons from the former Soviet Union, I take it. Well, I am and horror stories abound. Like hell they, as LEGAL immigrants, want that here.
Why are you all freaking out about saying whether you’re insured or not? Here, I’ll go first. I’m insured. See, that wasn’t hard. You’re among friends here. Go for it.
Drum, Pale, Input/Output, McGehee, Leigh?
Let’s build a universe out of hockey-sticks and call it data.
” Why are you all freaking out about saying whether you’re insured or not ”
Not answering a stupid and irrelevant distraction of a question is freaking out in your la-la-bullshit world?
Why are you freaking out about your dumb question not being taken as ‘the belle of the ball’ steve?
Drum, Pale, Input/Output, McGehee, Leigh?
Still waiting for the “your fucking business” certification.
Are you offering to start making payments?
Ok, steve:
Feed the kitty, or fuck off.
Really, steve, that darleen comment makes you look like a dick.
Input/Output
Your google translator has failed you, EBOS, and you have again hurdled to an incorrect assumption, but then, that is why you are the EBOS.
No one who lives under those alleged terrible systems would trade their for ours
Canadians say what ?
Canada says what ?
I guess not answering if we have insurance is holding up some super awesome pseudo-gotcha he has lined up to distract from his distinct lack of any meaningful arguments to support the ACA/OC trainwreck. Bummer.
Really, steve, that darleen comment makes you look like a dick.
He may look like a dick, and he may write like a dick, but don’t let that fool you, he really is a dick.
(thanks, Groucho)
You spent more ink not answering it than answering it. Who’s insured?
Jeff collects the money, Darleen does most of the posting, and I’m the dick.
But I do enjoy it here, so I just sent Jeff a $50. Now, shall we have that deep conversation you wanted to have a while back?
Eingang, are you insured?
I’ll wait until jeff confirms it. You lie so easily.
Eingang, are you insured?
Can you tell us why this is a relevant question ? Why are you so defensive about answering that ?
>Darleen does most of the posting<
slapphead you truly are an idiot
slapphead you truly are an idiot
But I do enjoy it here… Apparently he is also a masochist.
“Can you tell us why this is a relevant question ? Why are you so defensive about answering that ? ”
Yeah, and why is he freaking out about answering it?
“Jeff collects the money, Darleen does most of the posting, and I’m the dick. ”
You’re a huge dick. And a waste of time.
“You spent more ink not answering it than answering it. Who’s insured? ”
Don’t freak out steve. Don’t be so defensive.
Still waiting for the “Your Fucking Business” cert…
Still waiting for why the Finns drop dead from malaria.
Ok, Steve, face value again. On behalf of Jeff and darleen, thanks for ponying up (you really don’t want me to get into the Ps).
I’ll bite: I am insured. Your point?
The question is not who and who is not insured here on Jeff’s blog. The question is whether or not the American people want to surrender more than one sixth of our economy to bumbling bureaucracy. It’s actually closer to one fifth (that’s 20 percent, since you aren’t strong on the maths) when one figures all the other service providers that are lumped into “healthcare” and are not doctors or hospital staffers.
I submit that the American people do not.
And yes. You are a dick, steve. How dare you insult our host and those who wish to help him out?
How dare you insult our host and those who wish to help him out?
Narcissism; he actually thinks he is doing Jeff a favor with his mental incontinence.
Are you going to finish your assigned essay?
Unlike Obamcare, at least we have a choice as to whether nor not we donate to Jeff.
Hey, DV, what happens when a contract is unilaterally breached by one party to that contract?
…why it’s the government’s (let alone Thievin Steven’s) business.
Just so, McGehee.
Thanks.
The hypothesis put forth is that anyone can get treated at the ER, and get procedures done for free at a medical school. It has also been put forth that the ER will forgive large amounts of debt such that you don’t lose everything you own and have to declare bankruptcy. If this is true, then why do you find this option unpalatable? I’m asking honestly.
An alternative plan put forward is to pay doctors in cash and carry only catastrophic insurance, as the typical dr (according to Ausgang and I’ll take his assertion at face value) only costs $1600 / yer. Now, if you’re over 30, that’s not a legal option any more. Leaving that aside, is this the route you went in previous years? If not, why not?
You keep dodging questions, DV…
Amusing.
“Ignore inconvenient facts” writ large. And here we’d thought you had advanced far enough to qualify for “concern trolling”…
Drum, last time I checked, you don’t know the difference between “a leading” and “the leading”, so why do you keep writing? Don’t you think you owe it to yourself to go back to the basics?
“Drum, last time I checked, you don’t know the difference between “a leading” and “the leading”, so why do you keep writing? Don’t you think you owe it to yourself to go back to the basics?”
Why waste our time with this 2nd grade nanny nanny booboo bullshit steve? Are you defensive? Are you freaking out?
Drum, last time I checked, you don’t know the difference between “a leading” and “the leading”, so why do you keep writing?
You keep thinking that I am the one who made that mistake. I’m just the guy who pointed the lie out when you made it.
You lie so often you ought to run for office.
Let him stay freaking in, if that’s his preference. I doubt anyone would be disappointed.
“The hypothesis put forth is that anyone can get treated at the ER, and get procedures done for free at a medical school. It has also been put forth that the ER will forgive large amounts of debt such that you don’t lose everything you own and have to declare bankruptcy. If this is true, then why do you find this option unpalatable? I’m asking honestly.”
So it’s just another stupid distraction that ignores what ACA has done TO people with coverage, and how little it actually does for people without, for whatever reason, while yapping nonsense about better outcomes?
No wonder you idiots are getting more and more unpopular.
The hypothesis put forth is that anyone can get treated at the ER, and get procedures done for free at a medical school.
Ignoring the fact that all teaching hospitals are not medical schools, that is not a hypothesis, it is a fact that if you are medically indigent, you can get seen via an ER or a free clinic.
It has also been put forth that the ER will forgive large amounts of debt such that you don’t lose everything you own and have to declare bankruptcy.
No, it wasn’t. I haven’t figured out is you are a dishonest hack, incapable of reading and reason, or both. If one is medically indigent and get seen at at a private hospital, the cost will likely get written off, if a city (county) hospital, the city or county eats the cost. Even you should be able to comprehend that someone who lives in the subway has no assets to go after. If you have a job/assets/insurance, the hospital would be correct in trying to collect, though it is not unheard of for debt to be reduced or written off in the face of demonstrated hardship.
If this is true, then why do you find this option unpalatable?
It is not an option if one is not indigent, you buffoon.
I’m asking honestly.
I doubt you ever do anything honestly.
according to Ausgang and I’ll take his assertion at face value) only costs $1600 / yer.
OK, you are lazy too. Seeing as how you didn’t bother to read the quote & link last time, here it is again:
As you are also innumerate: 135 X 12 = 1620.
Tell me, EBOS, is it true your right hand is tattooed “Breathe In – See Other Hand”, and your left, “Breaathe Out – See Other Hand” ?
inane
The point is that medical care is not more a “right” than a Big Mac.
Indeed, if we are talking about have a “right” to stuff because otherwise YOU’LL DIE!1!!! then food, which we need everyday, is vastly more important than the occasional doc visit.
Yet, last I checked, no one was advocating single-payer grocery stores, nor “affordable dinner” restaurant plans.
How come we get to choose (for now) what we want (and can afford) to eat, but not how we want to set up our medical care?
The ACA is providing a way for millions of people to get health insurance. Depending on how you count, 7 – 9 million, so far. You guys are the ones who’ve insinuated that health insurance has no value.
>The hypothesis put forth is that anyone can get treated at the ER, >
here is what arguing with proggtarded stupid is about: the law becomes “The hypothesis”
stuff it dirtbag
Aus – I find it interesting where you stopped commenting. Did you, in 2013, pay cash for medical services and carry only catastrophic coverage? If not, why not?
“You guys are the ones who’ve insinuated that health insurance has no value.”
various forms of fed gov’t compulsion isn’t “insurance” slapphead
The ACA is providing a way for millions of people to get health insurance./i>
No, ObamaCare is FORCING millions of people to buy health insurance that they neither needed (middle aged men living alone having to pay for maternity care) nor wanted (Catholic nuns being forced to pay for contraceptives), while politically favored classes (Congressional staffers* and labor unions) are given waivers from the “law of the land”.
Why do you hate reality, DV?
(* – a group that was SPECIFICALLY REQUIRED by that “law of the land” to use the exchanges, but which Obama just waved his wand and the law evaporated, just like any dictator could.)
7 – 9 million, so far.
2/3 of which are signed up on Medicaid, whether they wanted it or not. 1/3 of which have major errors, and NONE of which have actually made payments.
“Did you, in 2013, pay cash for medical services and carry only catastrophic coverage? If not, why not? <
the personal being political thanks saul alinsky/related proggtard. none of your effin' busyness clowndisasterclone&trade:
You guys are the ones who’ve insinuated that health insurance has no value.
It isn’t insinuation. Insurance is meaningless unless it is accepted as payment. Hospitals in Virginia are actually turning patients away because they are not sure who is covered and for what.
Because PROGRESS
Onward to Ehtopia!
“The ACA is providing a way for millions of people to get health insurance. Depending on how you count, 7 – 9 million, so far. You guys are the ones who’ve insinuated that health insurance has no value. ”
Hype over reality again. Better outcomes through modification of metrics.
I think I will take my ObamaCare insurance card down and demand a Big Mac.
“What do you mean, this has no value? It’s OBAMACARE!”
(Waits for Dog Vomit to catch on to this little morality play.)
You guys are the ones who’ve insinuated that health insurance has no value.
Really? No dear, what we’ve said is that the value of anything is determined by the choices of the people involved (free market value) … NOT by government fiat
A great deal of the current “high price” of medical care is due to The State placing, not just a big fat thumb on the scale, but gaming the system from top to bottom. From restricting the number of medical schools, to dictating Medicare/caid reimbursements, to refusal to address tort reform (what IS the profession of the vast number of politicians outside of their political office?), The State has created the problems it screams only it can fix.
I’m not going to play Obama’s and by extension socialist steve’s game of picking my pocket for services I neither want nor need.
The pioneers take the arrows, folks.
You guys are the ones who’ve insinuated that health insurance has no value.
That may be what you inferred, but no one here came within a light year of insinuating that.
The ACA is providing a way for millions of people to get health insurance.
Again you didn’t bother to read a link. There was no reason, short of laziness or just disinterest why anyone other than the 8.2 million long term uninsured couldn’t get insurance before. Your lack of intellectual curiosity continues to astound.
Depending on how you count, 7 – 9 million, so far.
If you live in Wolkenkuckucksheim, those numbers have long since been shown to be bogus.
Did you, in 2013, pay cash for medical services and carry only catastrophic coverage?
As I said, it is irrelevant to the discussion, though it is a perfectly viable option for many (or at least was prior t the obamacare abomination). I am leaving it as an academic exercise for you to figure out how I might deal with medical expenses, there have certainly been enough clues for anyone more sentient than an avocado.
there have certainly been enough clues for anyone more sentient than an avocado
Avocados everywhere take umbrage at the comparison to DV. A spokescado is heard to say, “I’ve seen bird droppings with quicker uptakes.”
what IS the profession of the vast number of politicians outside of their political office?
Millionaire lobbyist?
Remember back when Chappy Kennedy sold us on HMO’s? Ah, good times. Good times.
“I’ve seen bird droppings with quicker uptakes.”
I’ll denounce myself to the Avocado Anti-Defamation League if you denounce yourself to the Bird Dropping Anti-Defamation League.
Drum
That one’s usually post Congress. What you have is a trial lawyers club.
“I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a disgrace; that two are called a law firm; and that three or more become a Congress.” — John Adams
Precisely why we need Rand Paul. He is a doctor and can blow holes in the bad ship Ocare.
“There is no distinctly American criminal class – except Congress.” – Mark Twain
I think I will print a trillion dollars in CrankyBucks™. I’ll be an instant trillionaire.
That will be sweet. I can hardly wait to spend it all.
Of course, there will be the problem of people not accepting my CrankyBucks™ as payment for goods and services since they are valueless, but if I believe hard enough that problem will go away, I’m sure.
“Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Member of Congress. But I repeat myself.” — Mark Twain
He is a doctor and can blow holes in the bad ship Ocare.
One can hope, alas, the bad ship Ocare is surrounded by a fleet of trial lawyers and other flotsam and jetsam from gerrymandered shores.
“Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
““All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity.” – Twain
Well, then he just needs sufficient aircover and we’re there.
>The ACA is providing a way for millions of people to get health insurance. Depending on how you count, 7 – 9 million, so far <
making shit up works no?
I denounce Thievin Steven for usurping the Indian name bestowed on me by the gone-but-not-lamented troll Barney Gumble: “Makes Shit Up.”
Right-thinking persons are cautioned to refuse to apply this name to Thievin Steven, and to call him instead “Shits Makeup.”
Depending on how you count, 7 – 9 million, so far
7-9 million, with a 95% CI of zero to 7 billion. Precision and accuracy.
Damn you guys spend a lot of time amusing a lying sack o’ crap.
Damn you guys spend a lot of time amusing a lying sack o’ crap.
Meh – it works both ways – I am endlessly fascinated to see what lunacy he will come up with.
Today I learned from Steve that every year Santa brings us new jobs and then doesn’t take them back after the holiday shopping season has concluded.
It’s MAGIC!
Steve, I am fascinated with how you could reach this point in your adult life where you feel the need to shill for the administration. I suspect/assume that your undergraduate work was done in the northwest ( I have several relatives who went to UW and came out hard core lefty).
I also suspect/assume that your studies were in the softer social sciences: poli sci, communications, literature or something. Nothing wrong with that, I had a mix of that with some harder sciences.
Of course, my core beliefs were rather shaped by the loving care of Uncle Sam. Not a whole lot of bs allowed; only results measured.
Would you care to open up a bit about how you got to where you are?
“You may hate rich people, but when was the last time a poor person gave you a job?” — Gene Simmons
Apropos of everything and nothing in this thread, can somebody tell me just exactly who in the hell Charles W. Cooke thinks his audience is in this Polonian exercise in sweet reason, and how, exactly it compares to NROs actual readership? That is, who is it that Mr. Cooke thinks, or pretends he’s addressing, versus who it is who’s likely to actually read what he wrote?
The subject matter, of course, is the nothing. The everything is, will his efforts have their (ostensiby) intended effect, and what might we conclude from that which we may or may not want to apply in here?
Marco!
Achievement Unlocked: Gutless Wonder!
Did you, in 2013, pay cash for all medical services and carry only catastrophic coverage? If not, why not?
RI Red – I thought when you wanted to discuss each other’s core beliefs, it would be more about each others logic and/or basis and less about whether we had pets as children and which parent did most of the cooking.
I assumed that when I indicated that employment increased around the holidays because of increased demand – that I didn’t have to spell out that the post holiday slump in demand would decrease employment after the holidays. But you managed even to fuck that up.
So if you have 20 million people looking for work, and 5 million jobs, how many lazy people do you have? And if someone can’t get insurance because of a preexisting condition, does that make them lazy?
Let’s say you have a family of four, making 25k per year. What do you estimate their rent to be? Groceries? Utilities? The occasional auto repair (or bus passes)? School supplies? Clothes? What does that leave for health insurance? What (in 2013 terms) does that insurance provide?
And is that family indigent at that income level? Be specific. You’re an expert, after all.
“I assumed that when I indicated that employment increased around the holidays because of increased demand – that I didn’t have to spell out that the post holiday slump in demand would decrease employment after the holidays. But you managed even to fuck that up. ”
No, you were just sloppy and incomplete in your pitiful non-explanation of DEMAND and got called on it and are now spinning der wheels to try and get your eau de smart sprayed back behind your donkey ears again.
“So if you have 20 million people looking for work, and 5 million jobs, how many lazy people do you have? And if someone can’t get insurance because of a preexisting condition, does that make them lazy? ”
At some point the idiot needs to quit faking with ginned up “look at how smart I think I am ” questions and actually study the subject he’s been babbling on about in ignorance.
“Achievement Unlocked: Gutless Wonder!”
Shorter steve : I haven’t figured out that my battery of stupid diversion questions aren’t selling ACA for shit yet.
palaeomerus – jesus loves you. Now go to bed. You’re drunk.
nutcase says:
>say you have a family of four, making 25k per year. <
medicaid clown or don't you know that
“palaeomerus – jesus loves you. Now go to bed. You’re drunk.”
Oh look. steve typed some more tedious stupid shit and tried to sell it as a clever barb. Who (except people who recognize patterns) expected that?
Not in states that haven’t expanded medicaid. Or don’t you know that?
“However, the United States Supreme Court ruled in National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius that states do not have to agree to this expansion in order to continue to receive existing levels of Medicaid funding, and many states have chosen to continue with current funding levels and eligibility standards. “
hellomynameissteve says January 7, 2014 at 12:45 am
>say you have a family of four, making 25k per year. < medicaid clown or don't you know that – See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52377#comment-1048382
Not in states that haven’t expanded medicaid. Or don’t you know that?
– See more at: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=52377#comments
At least you're admitting that the ACA is an utter failure.
So, in other words: you really MEANT to say that those jobs that got “created” all got destroyed later?
You had a job-creation claim there, but you managed fuck that up.
^to
Achievement Unlocked: Gutless Wonder!
It is good to see the EBOS is not only still at it, but raising the bat on his own inanity. Was that supposed to mean something ?
Did you, in 2013, pay cash for all medical services and carry only catastrophic coverage? If not, why not?
Why are you afraid to answer why this is relevant ? Why haven’t you been able to figure the puzzle out ? Do you cry yourself to sleep because you don’t know ?
Good Lord. Do you ever read anything that might challenge the talking points fed to you ? Do you ever deign to look stats up yourself to see if numbers you are fed are accurate ? Are you actually proud of being ill-informed”
There are 8.2 million long term uninsured. They all could get health care, even those with pre-existing conditions, here is but one example. What they could not get, which you apparently think everyone is entitled to, is a limo to a private jet to take them to the Mayo Clinic.
And is that family indigent at that income level? Be specific. You’re an expert, after all.
First, as discussed previously, one does not begin a sentence with a conjunction, take a look at this. It may be above your head, but you might learn something for a change. Second, the level at which a family at that income level is deemed indigent would be dependent on a variety of factors, such as location. I realize complex thought is beyond your abilities, but life is multi-factorial, much as you would like all options to be binary.
The only group most at risk of inadequate care are the mentally incompetent, whether congenital or acquired (e.g., brain injury or substance abuse), who are non-institutionalized. As you evidently fall into one of those categories, why look, even Oregon has help for the uninsured.
You truly are the Koh-I-Noor of buffonery, the Hagia Sophia of incoherence, Venus de Milo of intellectual sloth.
Correcting the spelling and grammar of others is usually the sign that you’ve run out of things to say, but since steve took the initiative upthread, I thought to go back over his numerous errors along those lines and correct them.
But then I realized that I didn’t care, and that it would have no effect. Just as nothing else said to him seems to have any effect.
I am however impressed with his ability to trash his own previous arguments in the name of winning this round. It’s evidence either extraordinary adaptability, or extraordinarily short attention span.
Correcting the spelling and grammar of others is usually the sign that you’ve run out of things to say…
Generally true, as is the given that everyone makes the occasional mistake, but beginning sentences with conjunctions is particularly grating given their function, and even if it is becoming a common practice among good published writers. English can be a particularly elegant language, and its continual debasement is bothersome.
It’s evidence either extraordinary adaptability, or extraordinarily short attention span.
No, intellectual sloth and a fundamental dishonesty. In other words, typical “progressive” thought.
““Bad planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.” Nor a tax increase; nor a shrinking of my rights; nor a Leftist takeover of a once-proud, strong, and free Republic.
Can’t understand these newly-far-Left Democrats. They push for Statist Utopia, but fail to realize that their unsustainable demands and fiscal policies will instead push back decades of technological progress. If we’re lucky, only decades.
But the thought of the steves of the world attached to plows, trying to provide for themselves for the first time ever, is comforting. Stripped of our thin layer of 1st World Civilization by their own doing, these proggs will suffer most nicely.
Let’s say you have a family of four, making 25k per year.
Let’s say instead that you have a man and a woman, discovering that they can’t afford to have two children. And then take it from there.
Serr8d, Slart – his counter will be that there are those who were making 6 figures who then fell on hard times due to loss of job (or whatever) and are now reduced to $25K, and ignore a) lack of preparation for disaster whilst well heeled, and b) all the help that, as I have linked, has been out there.
Let’s say you have a family of four, making 25k per year. What do you estimate their rent to be? Groceries? Utilities? The occasional auto repair (or bus passes)? School supplies? Clothes? What does that leave for health insurance? What (in 2013 terms) does that insurance provide?
And is that family indigent at that income level?
Let’s go one at a time here:
Family of four making 25K.
Rent: Most likely they receive a rent subsidy or live in public housing or Section 8 housing or with relatives.
Groceries: EBT, WIC, cash assistance (depending on one’s state of residence), and the free school lunch program.
Utilities: Programs for the poor (see above: Rent) often subsidize utilities at a lower rate than the general population.
Bus Passes: Heavily discounted or free (special circumstances determined by city of residence).
Auto repairs: Shade tree mechanics abound or you buy another bucket-o-rust.
School supplies: (Assumed that this is for minor children) Free in many states through donation programs by the more well-heeled or a merchant.
Clothes: Schools often have winter coat drives in conjunction with area churches. Goodwill, Salvation Army and other charity shops are everywhere. WalMart has “tax free” days for school clothes prior to the term beginning.
Health insurance: Medicaid.
Indigent? Not if you ask them privately. They also receive EITC and numerous other benefits.
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps !
Leigh, that will, alas, fall on one who has deaf ears, blind eyes, and is just plain dumb. The Energizer Bunny Of Stupid is strictly a binary thinker wherein you either have something, or it is impossible to get short of the government handing it to you.
Oh, sure Eingang. He is stupid, an elitist, grew up I the leafy ‘burbs and has a token black friend or two from his college days who he refers to often in conversation, but hasn’t seen or spoken to since graduation.
He knows no poor people and thus cannot understand the depth of their cunning and willingness to game the system. (Naturally, this is not all poor. Merely the “Professional Poor” as we have come to know them.) To him, they are merely victims of circumstance and The Man. He doesn’t recognize that they are a finely honed machine and that one hand washes the other by their being that way and exponentially increasing the number of services and providers for their “needs”.
Money will never solve their problems as has been proven by windfalls such as lottery winnings. They return to their natural state — broke — once they burn through their winnings.
More government cheese is not the answer.
While we’re asking irrelevant questions, I wonder when the last time steve’s power was turned off?
Because it’s important to me to know. So no getting defensive.
It’s just gathering demographic information, Slarti. I don’t know why he’d object. And if he does, clearly he has something to hide.
To clarify: shut off for nonpayment of bill.
So if you have 20 million people looking for work, and 5 million jobs, how many lazy people do you have?
So if you have a government making labor more expensive (punishing job creators and driving up costs), how many jobs do you think will be offered to those who are demanding a supply that does not exist?
I mean, you have argued that demand creates jobs. Aren’t those 20 million demanding jobs? Or are they just demanding more free stuff from Big Brother?
Or are you just a fool? (Never mind, we already know that answer.)
How do you square that circle of higher wages and amnesty for 11 million (reported) illegal aliens? According to you, we are already 15 million jobs short for the people who already live here.
I know! I know! Tax the Rich™!
ICYMI, steve: 5% unemployment is considered a benchmark of full employment in the nation. It was really terrible when unemployment was at 5.4% when Dubya was president. Remember? Thank goodness the Wahn fixed that . . . oh, wait.
Groceries: EBT, WIC, cash assistance (depending on one’s state of residence), and the free school lunch program. –
Let’s not fail to mention that the free “lunch” program also includes breakfast and supper.
W/o a reduction in the foodstamps the family is given to feed those kids who are being fed at school.
So, basically, the parents have to provide 3 square meals on saturday and Sunday.
Gives them plenty of dough to spend on booze, drugs, smokes and lotto tickets, doesn’t it?
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/julias-mother-why-a-single-mom-is-better-off-on-welfare-than-taking-a-69000-a-year-job/
I’m sure the noble poor would never do that, Leigh.
There isn’t any noble anything, Car in, except on rare occasions, or when it’s convenient.
Provide a system, and people will try to game it, because that’s what people do. Not everyone, but most everyone.
Speaking of which, wasn’t there someone lecturing us on game theory, recently? Whatever happened to that person?
No worries, Slart, they’ll just pass a few (thousand) more laws and … UTOPIA!
Just ask them!
All those other times that it was tried and failed miserably (and in one or two cases, catastrophically)? Wasn’t tried hard enough, that’s all. We just need to throw more money at the (inevitable) problems.
I believe that was dalek, but it may have been steve.
It made me miss Rick to give him a good thrashing.
If we could only give the state more power, so that the opposition can be forced aside…
What could possibly go wrong?
Steve, are you saying it’s all nature and no nurture? I don’t think core beliefs are with you at birth; rather, that they result from a combination of influences. Upbringing and education are certainly influential in my own search for understanding.
Regardless, here is a core belief: human beings, by nature, are self-interested. A lot of other beliefs can be developed from that.
One corollary: generally, people will prefer to make easy decisions over hard ones.
Another: civilization is a thin veneer that represents an attempt to moderate our inner savage.
Take of those what you will. Some of those principles apply to these ongoing discussions.
Gives them plenty of dough to spend on booze, drugs, smokes and lotto tickets, doesn’t it?
Spending which results in thousands of new jobs created, which is why we need to spend more on EBT!
I don’t think core beliefs are with you at birth; rather, that they result from a combination of influences. Upbringing and education are certainly influential in my own search for understanding.
There is a flood in New Orleans. Looting, fighting, and all hell breaks loose. There is a flood in Grand Forks. Prayer, charity, and potluck dinners break loose.
Why the big difference?
http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/01/its-official-obamacare-debuts-with-more-cancelled-plans-than-enrollments/
Taki Magazine suggests that Racial amity is not possible.