I mean, look at this filthy mockery of Pro-Family values: junk-hugging tights, suggestive codpiece, improper use of patriotic accoutrements, quasi-Islamofascistic man burka… What we need now is some OUTRAGE.*
****
update: and you simply don’t get that kind of pectoral definition with free weights. No. I suspect something unnatural is going on here. And what kind of message does that send to the children?
****
update 2: Bill INDC wrestles with the thorny nature of referential ontology.
****
update 3: This is the kind of thing that makes writing for public consumption every day so rewarding. From a comment left on Bill’s site:
Malkin is right. You are wrong. Goldstein doesn’t count because he’s a sarcastic semi-conservative wanker; we expect wise-guy stuff from him. You we take seriously.
Posted by Drewydd at January 12, 2005 08:55 PM
And of course to be a whole conservative, one must only ever smile at the delightful and intoxicating laughter of children (provided those children are being raised by traditional families).
With regard to Bill and seriousness…well, maybe there’s a gravitas to llama humping posts I’m simply not aware of…?
****
update 4: Michelle links to these rules and regulations pertaining to flag etiquette, and points out that the 1.6 million members of Veterans of Foreign Wars objected to Kid Rock’s use of the flag during his Superbowl appearance.
Quickly: I don’t believe in a metaphysical category of “Flagness.” Perhaps the Veterans of Foreign Wars do—though I doubt all of them are in uniform agreement on the matter.
To my way of thinking, once KR put holes in the flag and pulled it over his body, what he had ceased to be a flag and became a poncho with a flag design—though one he was clearly employing to celebrate his country. Similarly, I find the act of burning the American flag, while offensive, a speech act—and not an act akin to destroying a piece of, say, the Capitol Dome. The power of the flag rests in its symbolism, not in the fabric that makes the symbol manifest. And in burning the flag, the burner’s intent, clearly, is to protest the symbol, not the cloth.
KR meant to pay tribute to his country. And sometimes it really is the thought that counts.
****
From the comments, a couple of competing thoughts on the nature of “flagness” here and here. And here’s Baldilocks, from her archives.
****
update 5: Dario sends along the following links for your consideration:
Flag jacket, Bono, Olympics, Olympics 2, Nancy Sinatra at a Vietnam War Memorial Rally, 911 Benefit Concert, President Bush signing a flag.
You just had to go after the Llama humping post …
How about not having Kid Rock perform, er, because he’s not a particularly good singer/musical talent? He seems a nice enough fellow otherwise, from what little I know. Although, shilling for Coors Light hasn’t helped my opinion any…
Sorry. I was being a sarcastic wanker again. But in a semi-conservative kinda way.
Different question, Major John.
I would have no problem with that. I have a problem with politicizing the invite and turning it into a referendum on morality.
I suppose my potty mouth qualifies me as semi-conservative as well. Plus, I don’t think folks like me referring to the President as President Junior.
Aaaah, you can’t please everyone, so just don’t please anyone.
Was this guy speaking for all the Druids or was he acting alone? Mayve it was Richard Gere. He surely had something up his butt….
PW is hardly ever sarcastic. It is often acerbic. It is always funny.
Orgle orgle orgle.
Maybe. NOT mayve. Gail. :D
Wow, Jeff, you’re like a dog with a rag toy. And I mean that in the the best way possible.
Jesus Jeff. Get the fuck *off* this topic. There are *gasp* social conservatives in the Republican party. Shocking. Not letting Kid Rock play the inaugural just isn’t that big of a fucking deal. It really, really isn’t.
So fucking get over it already. You sound like a whiney left-wing bitch, bitch.
Also, will you have my man child?
Cheers,
prat
praetorian –
So fucking get over it already. You sound like a whiney left-wing bitch, bitch.
Maybe it’s fun to discuss? Read another blog. YOU “sound like a whiney left-wing bitch, bitch.” Really.
Maybe it’s fun to discuss? Read another blog. YOU “sound like a whiney left-wing bitch, bitch.†Really.
I take it all back.
Bill from INDC, will you have my man child?
Hopefully,
prat
What about bunting? I don’t see anyone complaining about bunting. Is bunting OK flagwise?
I HAVE GIVEN MY LIFE TO PAT BOONE.
Bill from INDC, will you have my man child?
If it were medically possible, I’d give it serious thought.
What if the humping llamas wore little bunting panties or something? Would that be unpatriotic?
My OUTRAGE! is growing.
During the late 80s when the issue of flag burning was front and center, I heard an interview of a retired Army officer. It’s been so long, that I cannot remember his name, but I still remember what he said:
that “Just as with a wedding ring, if the symbol of our faith and devotion becomes more valuable than the faith and devotion itself, then all is lost.”
He went on to say that, although he would likely express his own distaste with a flag burner by popping someone him in the kisser, that he had fought in two wars to give the jerk the right to do so.
If in the world of Hollywood and rock and roll, a guy is willing to stand up and proudly wear the symbol of our country, and proudly catch hell for supporting our President, and proudly support our troops…well, then…I say he should be able to wear pretty much what-ever-the-hell he damn well pleases..
And why does Captain America have a croquet ball in his tights? I have many questions tonight. Many, many questions.
My OUTRAGE! is growing.
Uh, something is growing … though not for Abe Lincoln. No sir.
Tube top and mini skirt. Verrrrry classy. But, hell, she could be a Republican and Shank would be happy.
Ask your questions, Gail. We’re listening.
“I HAVE GIVEN MY LIFE TO PAT BOONE.”
You have won me over. Look for me during the upcoming Superbowl telecast.
I’ll be the fan in the endzone holding up the placard that reads, “JEFF 3:16”
Flag bunting is not okay on houses or infants.
No one is ALLOWED to wear flags, ever under any circumstances, no not even llamas, or houses. Flag wearing is punishable by pro-family Christian firing squad. In garments. At Presidential *congressing* balls broadcast by CBS.
We will respect authoritay. And pie. And cheezy poofs.
My word is “done”. Okay then. And you think Jeff doesn’t hand-pick these for us.
I forgot what I was going to ask.
Lincoln is my favorite president. Don’t call him cheezy.
But thanks for the 411 on bunting.
I’m here for you. Cheezy Poofs or no.
Admittedly Lincoln would somethimes appear to be cheezy but he was only camping it up.
Oh my God! I’m going to bed. My magic word is “shot”
I realize this might be hard to fathom for those who aren’t veterans, but you might feel like the VFW crowd if you had killed people for that flag or watched your friends die for it. I spent part of my hitch with the Air Force Honor Guard. I went to a lot of funerals where that flag was draped across the caskets of some very good men. Men who gave their lives for America. I can see their point in wanting the flag to be shown the proper respect.
I myself was offended by KR’s wearing of the flag as a poncho.In hindsight, finding out more about the man, I realize he most likely meant it as a show of his love for his country. I can respect that and I have no problem with him performing at the Inauguration. In fact, I think he’s as good a choice as any other.
For those of you confused about clothing and flags, flag designs are okay, wearing flags is not.
This wasn’t meant to offend anybody, I just felt like I had to add my comment.
Hey Ana, my word is “length”.
Jeff watch where you’re pointing that thing! I almost poked my eye out on the way in tonight.
People, children.
The flag design, per se, differs from the the flag verbatim. In a truly non-heuristic paradigm the red, white, and blue hews to idiomatic, or perhaps, homiletic esoterica.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and what’s up with Kid Rock and that creepy munchkin rap motherfuckin dwarf he hauls around on tour?
– Well Michael maybe your dream finally came true….
– Goldstein….front and center…. we know you’re out there somewhere hiding….You simply must prounonce on the bunting question…
– What do you do with an Elephant with three balls and bunting on his mind…..
(walk him and pitch to the llama) .. *rim shot*
turing word…I couldn’t make this up….: “head”
Okay, maybe I haven’t added much to the badinage, but I still think Kid Rock is Jewish.
Oh, and what’s up with Kid Rock and that creepy munchkin rap motherfuckin dwarf he hauls around on tour?
That “creepy munchkin” was Joe C., who suffered from a digestive condition called Celiac disease and was was given a pretty damn good last bit of a life by Kid Rock. he died four years ago at 26.
I still think Kid Rock is Jewish.
And, really, if we let foul mouth jews rock it donkey-punch styley at the inauguration, the terrorists have won.
Fucking seriously.
You think I’m joking.
Seriously.
_blink_
cheers,
prat
Michael Dennis:
I realize this might be hard to fathom for those who aren’t veterans, but you might feel like the VFW crowd if you had killed people for that flag or watched your friends die for it. I spent part of my hitch with the Air Force Honor Guard.
So did I (at a local Honor Guard; retired 22 year AF veteran) but I still realize that when a man tries to display his love for the flag in an inappropriate manner and does so out of ignorance that it isn’t a crime.
Kid Rock showed the fact that he had been corrected at one of the NBA Final games in Detriot (his hometown) of last year. (Not to mention the fact that he has gone to visit our troops several times shows where his heart lies.) He sang the national anthem and I only recognized him when he put his hat back on after singing it.
Perhaps all that are so offended by the “disrespect” shown to the flag of late should make it their business to educate the younger crowd instead of excoriating them.
Certainly such young people aren’t getting this type of education in the schools they attend or from their parents.
And since when did sympbolism become more important that concrete and meaningful *action?*
I really have nothing to add.
Tim McNabb
fivehundredwords.com
More: If you’re familiar with Kid Rock and you didn’t see him sing the National Anthem at the 2004 NBA, think about the last time you saw him with his hat off. The Kid has been schooled. That’s what happens when you surround yourself with people in the know, as his has by his Iraq trips.
Let’s try this again: If you’re familiar with Kid Rock and you didn’t see him sing the National Anthem at the 2004 NBA Finals, think about the last time you saw him with his hat off. The Kid has been schooled. That’s what happens when you surround yourself with people in the know, as he has via his Iraq trips.
Jeff, Is that you as a super hero? If so, what is your name. You know, like mine was Supersparkle.
Suggestions:
JocularJewMan
HilariousHebrewMan
JoyRideJewMan
KinkyKosherMan
SuperStudblogger
BibulousBigBlastman
:spongg:
RWS – I think it would be Captain Bilabial!
But, Jeff, I am glad, you know, that you aren’t picking on Superman. It’s just a think with me you know.
Think? I meant ‘thing’ – too much scotch?
RWS – The miniscule codpiece doesn’t work for a guy with a penile superiority complex. Goldstein thinks he has a staff that could part the Red Sea.
Maybe, “The Rod of Aaron.”
I thing…
Oh, that thing. He bought Aaron’s Budding Rod for $49.95 here during Replica Auction Saturday.
Parting the Red Sea? So far, he’s just been using it to make a bigger tent.
(And my spam buster is… “parts”!)
People! All this talk about Kid Rock has us skirting the real issue: why aren’t any of the “artists” who actively campaigned against Bu$hitler invited to perform at any of the inaugural events?
It’s truly a national scandal that Green Day, Bruce Springsteen, and the Dixie Chicks (to name just a few) won’t be allowed to voice their songs of protest during any of the official inaugural balls. The KKKrushing of dissent continues, and it won’t be long until your children are forced to swear allegiance to Pat Boone.
It’s doubleplusgood that our Fascist host required me to type in the word “thought” in order to post this comment before it could be posted.
Yeah, well, I always thought Cap’n America looked a little too ‘flaggy.’
Of all the things in this world that a person could get their panties in a twist about, people pick this. Christsake the guy loves his country so much that he wore the flag on stage; and people think it’s unpatriotic. Like, “Sorry KR, there’s only a few ways to be patriotic, and if you don’t obey the rules, you’re a fuckin disgrace to your country.” This argument is easily one of the stupidest, most inane, useless debates and I can’t believe people are wasting their time on it. If only this much attention were given to healthcare or environmental policy, maybe something might actually change for the BETTER in this muthafuck. sheesh.
Like Kelly said above, there IS a difference between clothing with a flag motif and desecrating an actual flag to make clothing. It shouldn’t really matter if the person cutting the flag up has pure thoughts while doing it or not; it’s the US flag and you don’t do that. It’s a bit like serving bald eagle to celebrate July 4th, and that just seems wrong to me, even if eagles were tasty.
With that said, I can’t tell if Kid Rock’s garment was actually made out of a flag from the one picture I’ve seen. Some clothing designer may have made the poncho look TOO authentic and the unintended result was to get some people cheesed off.
At least the stripes are going vertically because that’s more slimming.
Later,
bbeck
It shouldn’t really matter if the person cutting the flag up has pure thoughts while doing it or not; it’s the US flag and you don’t do that.
But that begs another question: if someone does do that, but they didn’t know protocol and didn’t intend it in a negative way, is it really appropriate for conservatives to repeatedly castigate them like unbearable scolds?
I’d say, “no.”
OK Bill – I promise I will not bring up the llamas any more.
Bill, I would say “no” as well…and I would think that when the person in question found out he offended he would immediately apologize for doing what he did out of ignorance. Right?
But, who doesn’t know that the US flag shouldn’t be desecrated?
Later,
bbeck
Shhh. My dog thinks you can only get castigated once.
But that begs another question: if someone does do that, but they didn’t know protocol and didn’t intend it in a negative way,…
Ignorance of the proper rules of flag etiquette is no excuse.
…is it really appropriate for conservatives to repeatedly castigate them like unbearable scolds? I’d say, “no.â€Â
Awwwww. We never get to have any fun!
An ontological question people: What if the garment in question was not a flag to begin with and therefore didn’t need to be torn up or otherwise altered but was just constructed from the ground up as a flag allusion? I don’t think Captain America’s outfit ever was a FLAG per se because flags aren’t stretchy.
Symbol is as symbol does.
hey bbeck –
Have you ever used bunting? American flag napkins? A tablecloth on the Fourth of July? A coffee mug with flag? Any commercial product with a pattern?
9. The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
Details and examples are here.
A lot of people aren’t aware of the hyper-strict rules surrounding the flag. And I’d venture to say that while respectful tradition is nice and has a place, some of those rules have obviously been invalidated with positive intent.
Interpreting the rules themselves, rather than the meaning of the rules, with fervor that ignores intent is ridiculous, and is a tendency that conservatives complain about with regard to overzealous liberals and the politically correct use of language.
A bit of common sense works wonders, at times.
This outrage seems to be curiously absent during war memorial concerts and the Olympics.
update: and you simply don’t get that kind of pectoral definition with free weights. No. I suspect something unnatural is going on here. And what kind of message does that send to the children?
If I recall my Marvel Comics history correctly, Captain America derived his strength from an experimental serum called FLAG developed by the govt. to create super human soldiers. Or perhaps it was developed for athletes…..
Well, my feeble attempt at humor regarding KR’s entourage fell face first into the beer puddle in mosh pit.
My apologies to fans, friends, and family of Joe C.
By the way, Bill, have you lost weight? Been working out? You’re looking good these days…
No one observes the correct rules for flag usage anymore. When’s the last time you saw someone lower the flag when it rains ? Or stand at attention ? Does your neighborhood school display a flag ? It’s pretty silly to accord such respect to a national standard, doncha think ? ‘Cause then, people who want to make statements with their flags would actually have to know something about it ! We might even have to start teaching flag customs in schools – how outrageous ! No, much better that we hold no one to even a minimum standard, just in case their ignorant disrespect was meant to be, y’know, patriotic.
Please pick which bit of common sense you prefer from the above and discard the rest. My common sense tells me those not criticized for their errors tend to repeat them. Your mileage may vary.
Well you’d better get busy then. because if you want to hold Kid Rock to a Draconian standard, for a single offense committed in ignorance of protocol, with postive intent, not repeated, until the end of all time, you have some advertisers, volleyball and bikini manufacturers, as well as picnickers from sea-to-shining-sea that need some serious frowning upon. Get busy.
Kid Rock was criticized and educated about protocol by members of the armed forces that weren’t uptight dicks about it. He has not done it since. So your argument is irrelevant to this discussion, I suppose.
Not calling you an “uptight dick,” btw.
Check out update 5 for some additional links.
Dorkafork: they’ve got flag bikinis for men and women now, and the maker is suspiciously French-sounding.
I’m a little confused here, Bill – criticism is a Draconian standard now ? The very remedy I suggested, and that you indicated was supplied by members of our armed forces, to positive effect, makes my argument irrelevant ? What, then, is it that I am supposed to get busy doing ?
criticism is a Draconian standard now ?
Well, I was just assuming that we were following the logic train from the inception of the argument, where Malkin et al labeled Kid Rock a loser because of his poncho transgression, and stated that this transgression still carried some weight over whether he should be let in the Big tent to play some songs.
I guess that train completely jumped the damn tracks somewhere. My bad.
<lifts the corners of Bill’s mouth>
Okay, now exhale in short bursts, like this: “Ha! Ha! Ha!”
There you go—that’s how you take a joke.
Killed over a flag? Maybe I’m too able to see the metaphor for the reality, but if I’m ever asked to kill or die for some fabric I’ll tell whoever it is to fuck off and die.
McGehee –
Have you ever considered the possibility that you’re just not reading my tone? The joke’s on you buddy. Yippekayay.
A good indicator: anyone that thinks the phrase “poncho transgression” can be written without any jocularity … well …
I thought a “poncho transgression” was when the Mexican fighter hits his opponent below the belt.
In the interest of “equal rights”, how about a picture of Wonder Woman for us to bitch about.
That Lynda Carter had a bit of a flat ass. But man, she had a smokin’ rack!
Looooong may she wave.
See proof here.
No, no, no…
Pancho transgression occurred when he sidled into Lefty’s tent one night all liquored up and looking for a little outlaw man-love.
You know, all the Federales say, he could have had him anyway.
Please forgive me Towns Van Zant, wherever you are…
Geez, sorry, got hung up doing work; are we still making fun of the joo for thinking we’d really let him in the party? I mean, c’mon, a joo republican? People think of the craziest things…
You know, sometimes that Randy T. he can be a little over-protective, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
A good indicator: anyone that thinks the phrase “poncho transgression†can be written without any jocularity … well …
Good point—I must have missed that. Yeah, ol’ Poncho T. was quite the salsa blues wailer back in the day. I wonder what’s become of him?
Bill, I would agree that few people are aware of ALL the rules surrounding the flag.
But that isn’t what I just asked, right? I just asked about the general knowledge concerning ONE rule about the flag which most people DO know about. So you just asked a bunch of irrelevant questions about my past decisions on patriotic decor. I’d be glad to answer but I figured those were rhetorical.
What’s at issue is taking an actual flag—not a facsimile or a cloth that bears a resemblance, but an actual flag—and cutting holes in it. And as I indicated before, I don’t think many people are ignorant of the rule surrounding that. Do you?
“Interpreting the rules themselves, rather than the meaning of the rules, with fervor that ignores intent is ridiculous…”
This sounds like lawyerese, that there’s no crime without intent, but there can be offense without intent.
Here’s an example…
You go to Jeff’s house and break all his Pat Boone records. Here are a few circumstances under which this could have happened:
a) You assumed Jeff wouldn’t mind because…well, come on, it’s Pat Effing Boone.
b) Even though you knew Pat was Jeff’s master, you’re doing him a favor because…well, come on, it’s Pat Effing Boone.
c) You did it by accident because you tripped over them when you were distracted by Jeff’s life-size poster of two llamas copulating.
Now, you may not be guilty of a crime—heck, I’d pin a medal on you—but doesn’t Jeff have good reason to be offended even if you didn’t intend to offend?
Either way, I’m really pretty sure that many folks who burn the flag in protest believe they are doing it for good positive reasons, too. They could say they’re doing it for love of country and as a symbolic gesture indicating that the flag no longer stands for the liberty it once did. They could say that it was an easy way to get publicity for their political message, which they believe is important and needs to be heard. Or they could say the fumes from the burning nylon is a more righteous high than the latest crop of mushrooms…
And it would still be the wrong thing to do. Not only that, if we made an exception to desecration because we happen to agree with and/or approve of the political philosophy of the motivated person/s in question, it’s a double standard.
“…and is a tendency that conservatives complain about with regard to overzealous liberals and the politically correct use of language.”
Er, not quite. We’re not talking use of language that can have many different meanings, we’re talking about a symbol that has specific, undisputed ideals attached to it. It’s a physical thing that represents abstract ideas, and when you treat the physical thing with disrespect, you’re symbolically treating those ideals the same way regardless of intent. That’s going to have an automatic Tick-Off Factor for plenty of folks…and not just tight-azz conservatives.
With all that being said, I have no idea if Kid Rock made this poncho himself; in fact, I would guess that his Style Consultant designed it, some minion made it, KR was told to wear it, and he did like the Pop Idol Myrmidon he is. That doesn’t exactly absolve him of wrongdoing but it would seem more likely that he WAS ignorant of how the poncho was made.
And even with all that help, his music still stinks.
Later,
bbeck
Big Bang Hunter: Sorry, I don’t understand your comment. Who said anything about having a dream.
Jon: Sorry, I didn’t mean to confuse you, but serving the Flag symbolizes serving America. Several hundred thousand (millions?)have died for that metaphor.
And for the last time people. “Flag” and “flag design” are not the same thing. Even those cheap little toy flags people wave at parades aren’t real flags. They aren’t designed for using on a pole or hanging from a mast or carrying in a parade. I’m curious why some of you don’t see the difference.
Is there a First Sergeant in the house? Those guys know everything on this subject.
Michael Dennis: I see the difference.
I don’t see why *you* don’t see the difference between the following:
–someone intending to show pride in the flag, but making a mistake out of ignorance; being corrected, and going to “sin no more”
–someone intentionally desecrating the flag
Is KR permantly cast into “desecration Hell” for *not knowing?* Glad God is more merciful than some of His children.
BTW, I’m able to read just as well as most Shirts, better than some.
Juliette: Your last line is pretty funny since you apparently didn’t read what I wrote. Go back and read my first post. I said I realize it was probably just an ignorant mistake and that I thought KR should be invited as much as anybody else. I use the word “probably” because I’ve never asked KR personally or have seen him mention it in an interview. He just doesn’t seem like the kind of guy that would desecrate the flag out of malice.
Michael: My apologies. (Easy.)
I’m still able to read just as well as most Shirts do, just not necessarily recall every word.
My panties got in a bunch originally because it *seemed* (in said post) that you were assuming that you were the only one here who understands how many military personnel view the flag.
So now that you know that you aren’t, I’ll do my best to make sure that I read comments more thoroughly.
We military veterans also could be a little less uppity about the flag. Regardless of whether our friends died for it or not, that flag belongs to our civilian brethren just as much as it belongs to us. That said, we need to teach our fellow citizens how to pay respect, because they sure aren’t learning in school.
I think we should be burning the Constitution not the flag.
The FLAG is sacred. When I was in school we said a prayer to the flag and to GOD every day. Life was good.
But I can tell you this: I fought in the military to prevent flag burning. Others fought to make it possible. With a military so divided how can we win wars?
What we need more of is Kid Rock singing about Hos while Janet Jackson has a wardrobe malfunction. Every night. On the National news. That way we could get rid of communist inspired sex education in schools.
The Republicans are doing the right thing. Which is why Obama got my vote over Keyes.
I try to pay respect to the flag by upholding the ideals it represents—one of which is that I’m free to turn it into a poncho should the mood strike me. That I do so while trying to celebrate my country is a bonus.
Personally, I find the idea of declaring sacrosanct something produced on an assembly line a bit absurd. But I respect that others feel differently.
M. Simon: Now that I am retired, I can say this: please pass the big spliff!
I voted for Bush because there is nothing a real red blooded American veteran likes more than Bush.
Smoked or eaten. I like Bush.
But I think we need more Adult Rock and Less Kid Rock. Louie, Louie. And I know the real words too.
There are some things too sacred to screw with.
Oh yeah. When did this become an Islamic site? I see you are commanding people to Submit. What is with that? Wouldn’t it be better to Enter? Depending on gender of course. Maybe a gender neutral Send would be good.
No true American Submits. At least not too often. Depending on gender of course.
Juliette,
I think it is highly unfair for you to be anticipaing my posts and ruining the punch lines.
And we don’t even live together.
Well any way, if you want to burn some Bush or get one eaten you know who to call.
And the secret word is: <b>filled</a>
I take it as a sign.
Juliette: My comprehension might be bad too. I didn’t realize what you meant when you said Shirts earlier. Sorry I wasn’t more clear earlier in my own post. I assumed there were some vets here, but still felt like I should say something. Basicly, no it wasn’t a good thing to make a poncho out of the flag, and yes, KR probably didn’t mean it in a bad way and he shouldn’t get pounded for his ignorance.
M. Simon: I’ll start watching the national news again if they follow your ideas.
Jeff: Crosses, Menorahs, Talmuds and Bibles are mass produced. A lot of people think those are sacrosanct too. At least we can disagree here without having to blow each other up or saw off heads to show how righteous we are.
Now everybody hug.
I understand. And I’d answer that those people are wrong, too.
But you are definitely right about the last part. God Bless America.
No, thanks. But offer well-taken. Glad to find ut that you’re male, however. LOL
M. Simon goes down (in flames). LOL
Here is a serious question for you Jeff, Is there anything that is sacrosanct to you?
I don’t mean that sarcastically, I just mean that if nothing is (and you have every right to believe that nothing is) then it is a little hard to understand anyone’s mindset who does believe something is sacrosanct. See what I mean jellybean?…
– Turing word “growth” ….Alright Goldstein is definately setting these tokens….either that or its his sneaky way of promoting LLama copulation or maybe it was simply the mention of bunched panties and bush….. So then “wrapping yourself in the flag” before the horizontal mambo would be patriotic sex?….
RWS —
Just because it’s not sacrosanct to ME doesn’t mean it’s not sacrosanct to someone else. But that doesn’t mean I should be made to treat it with a certain reverence. I do—but that’s a choice.
As for what I find sacrosanct, a 1953 St Louis Browns Satchell [sic] Paige baseball card.
I had one of those clipped to my bike’s spokes. It went click-click-click-click while we went rampaging through the neighborhood chasing the kid with the funny little hat, Aaron something or other.
Satchel(l)?
Ahhh.
Now I get it.
I had wondered who/what had inspired his name.
Why JEff! I have one of those!!!! It was my Dad’s.
I’d give it to you, but you would have to be saved first….
This place is sacrosanct!
– Jeff I thought he retired after ‘48 when the indians won the series… I seem to remember he said they had found a copy of his BC and he was 87….and anyway he was tired of barfing every time he had to pitch….but maybe I really am senile….
Satchel Paige.
Pitched his last game in ‘65 at age 59—though some experts have him born in 1897 rather than 1906, which would have made him 70.
Either way, quite remarkable for a guy who didn’t throw a knuckleball.
– I watched him pitch when I was a youth…(really youthful youth)….I doubt he weighed as much as Bond’s left thigh…
– Should have known he wasn’t ready to quit the last time I watched them roll him off the field on a guerney…
Holy crap! Doesn’t intent matter anymore? They guy was trying to be patriotic. He was trying to honor the flag. If something is sacrosanct to you, you shouldn’t get bent out of shape unless the derogation of that “thing” is the itent. Damn have we ever become a bunch of whiners.
Burning the flag for example (still proteceted expression) is offensive on purpose. Then of course there is this. By the way, the first amendment protects such speech from the government, private citizens can certainly beat the shit out of these people.