Amazingly, those commentators who have spent the last 3 years or so decrying the “extremist right’s” insistence on “purity” tests (and were early adopters of a Mitch Daniels candidacy, Daniels having famously counseled that the GOP leave aside social issues) have just recently become very very concerned with Herman Cain’s positioning on certain key questions important to social conservatives — the latest being, where does Cain stand on the issue of abortion?
The aspect of Cain’s answers on the subject that seems to be so “confusing” and “troubling” to some ertswhile Big Tent pragmatic Republicans-against-Visigothery, is that Cain keeps implying in his answers that he is himself pro-life, while his official position seems to be that he can’t in good conscience presume to know the difficult decisions women go through in deciding upon abortion in certain instances.
— Which suggests to me that there is really no confusion at all, with respect to Cain’s position — and that the suggestion that there is is but an attempt to harm Cain’s campaign and reinvigorate the campaign of the only two “real” candidates left, namely, Romney and Perry.
Because it’s simple: judging by his answers, Cain veers classically liberal / libertarian on the issue. That is, his stance vis-a-vis the government’s role in deciding upon the question is a different issue entirely from his personal beliefs — which he says are decidedly pro-life.
Abortion is, clearly, a hot-button issue; and it is one that for very many conscientious people is difficult to negotiate, because it requires balancing the rights of a woman over her own body with the rights of the unborn.
But Cain’s position is only problematic if you believe that he would intentionally nominate judges who are pro-life. And I suspect most many conservatives trust Cain to nominate conservative / libertarian judges (he has pointed to Clarence Thomas as an ideal judicial mind) moreso than they do, say, Mitt Romney.
As I recently noted elsewhere, we can be absolutely sure of one thing: if nominated and then elected, Herman Cain will not perform any abortions.
This is a non-issue. Like electrified fences before it. But it’s being played into an issue quite deliberately.
My own counsel? Look who is pressing the issue and ask yourselves why. And look back over their writings to see the trajectory of their thinking from 2007 to the present. Are they consistent? Have they “grown”? Or do they seem to believe whatever it is popular at the moment to be advocating for?
****
update: Althouse doesn’t appear terribly “confused”; nor does lifenews find anything terribly confusing — though they do seem to wish Cain would throw out a bit more red meat, if he wants to get GOP support. Like, eg., he could say he once considered blowing up a Planned Parenthood clinic, but he didn’t, because it’s against the law!
My counsel, for what it’s worth, would be this: screw pandering to the GOP; if it’s legal conservative / classical liberal / libertarian support he’s after — you know, many of those “independents” Karl Rove and others are always insisting we chase down — he could do worse than to give a principled answer to a complex question.
And he did, people pretending otherwise notwithstanding:
Yesterday in an interview with Piers Morgan on CNN, I was asked questions about abortion policy and the role of the President.
I understood the thrust of the question to ask whether that I, as president, would simply “order” people to not seek an abortion. My answer was focused on the role of the President. The President has no constitutional authority to order any such action by anyone. That was the point I was trying to convey.
As to my political policy view on abortion, I am 100% pro-life. End of story.
I will appoint judges who understand the original intent of the Constitution. Judges who are committed to the rule of law know that the Constitution contains no right to take the life of unborn children.
I will oppose government funding of abortion. I will veto any legislation that contains funds for Planned Parenthood. I will do everything that a President can do, consistent with his constitutional role, to advance the culture of life.
Makes perfect sense to me.
I guess I’m just confused over the confusion.
There’s another trope on the loose today too, one with a bit more punch, namely, that Cain is retrenching or retreating or reformulating his 9-9-9 plan, because he is fleshing out the details of the opportunity zones and the below poverty-line po’folk’s release from income tax.
but what if an illegal immigrant gets pregnant with an anchor baby
Shorter ‘Them’: “OMG! It’s like he’s making it all up as he goes along! No foreign policy experience or even interest – did you hear how me mocked the good people of Uzebekistan? The man is simply unqualified to be President. And unelectable, too – can’t overemphasize that!”
I blame Erwin Schrödinger.
Or Tim Tebow.
Cain needs to realize that many in the press wants nothing better than to cause turmoil in the GOP nomination process. And Cain needs to have simple answers to foreseeable questions. Speaking off the cuff now (while refreshing in a way) this only gets him off focus and gives fodder to his competitors in the primary race. He could answer 99 questions right and one flub will lead the news and blogs that night. It is unfair (and Obama often gets a pass on the same thing) but that is the way it is.
I like Cain. I want him to succeed. I trust him far more than I do Romney. Cain can beat Obama in a head to head match up. But these recent press gaffes have been unforced errors. I see him being set up (from both sides) just like Palin was set up. And because a lot of people are looking seriously at Cain for the first time now, this is not the time to let misstatents followed by backtracking be the first impression they get of him. I do not think he has hurt himself yet, but he will if he doesn’t get more cautious with the press.
Is that all that’s going on? Because his plan is being contextualized as having been found to raise taxes on 80% (of what? households? people? don’t remember) by an independent review.
Good to know.
…’course, many of the same people were telling us how there was going to be NUCLEAR ARMEGEDDON of some sort following the Japanese tsunami.
And I seem to recall some “the oil spill is unstoppable, the sea floor may collapse, and the Gulf’s fragile ecosystem will be destroyed for years to come, if not for all time” talk as well.
So, “grain of salt”.
Yep. That is correct. Strange to see Allah, Ace, Glenn Beck, etc. all ready to jump Cain over this. Hmmmm, what could be motivating them all? How many Republicans would actually vote to make first trimester abortions illegal (criminalized like murder) in the case of rape? I am pretty sure it would be less than 50%. But we expect our candidates to say abortion is wrong in all circumstances? I would be perfectly okay with a President who said this is a state issue, the constitution is silent on it, I am against federal funding under any circumstance.
but what if an illegal immigrant gets pregnant with an anchor baby
Send her back across the border in month 7 so that the bebe will be born Mexican.
Yes, I know that’s wholly impracticable. But it’s also true that some women do indeed come illegally to the U.S., deliberately get pregnant and give birth here, just so that they can have a citizen bebe for whom they can collect food stamps and WIC.
I know some of them personally: they have absolutely no shame at gaming the system because in Mexico, gaming the system is the system. Among other Latinos, especially Central Americans, Mexicans have a reputation for being liars and cheats (and particularly potty-mouthed). (Yes, I’ve met plenty of Mexicans who are NOT liars and cheats or potty-mouthed.)
Heh. Yeah, by the Tax Policy Center, a so-called “independent” arm of the Brookings Institute and the Urban League. Right.
Urban Institute, not League, sorry.
I blame Erwin Schrödinger. I thought it was a cat in the box.
Nope Joe, it’s a thin little book.
#12 – It was/wasn’t.
How many Republicans would actually vote to make first trimester abortions illegal (criminalized like murder) in the case of rape? … But we expect our candidates to say abortion is wrong in all circumstances?
I used to think that rape was a perfectly good reason to permit abortion, no questions asked, but then someone (I think it was Sarah?) pointed out that then you have to prove rape to get a legal abortion, and suddenly a lot of men are falsely accused of a life-destroying crime.
Incest you can prove with DNA. In the case of the severely disabled being raped (or “seduced”), you can show that the woman was not capable of consenting.
I don’t think anyone says that the life of the mother (and inevitably the life of the child) is not a valid reason to abort. If it’s a decision between one life being lost or two, you don’t need to be a Vulcan to figure that out.
Well sdferr, no doubt Grover Norquist’s people will go after it as well.
bi-partisan opposition!
Verschränkung!
Someone among the candidates — Santorum? Perry? I forget — used the Tax Policy Center numbers in the debate the other day. They hardly have need of Grover.
I don’t think anyone says that the life of the mother (and inevitably the life of the child) is not a valid reason to abort. If it’s a decision between one life being lost or two, you don’t need to be a Vulcan to figure that out.
Alas that get’s gamed too, human nature being what it is.
I remember, during one of the pushes to ban partial birth abortion back in the Clinton era, a
doctorabortion activist with an M.D. saying that he (she?) would consider emotional distress enough of a threat to the life of the mother as to justify a “life of the mother” exemption.And things are complicated in other ways with life of the mother. I have a pregnant friend who has placenta previa (sp?). If she goes into labor, she could die … so instead of aborting the baby she desperately tried to conceive, she is simpy scheduling a C-section a month in advance of her due date.
I think the important thing to remember in any of these situations is that there are always two lives at stake. That changes 99% of the debate right there, but it doesn’t give any easy answers for the other 1% — but there probably shouldn’t be easy answers.
Any weapon to hand strikes again.
This is what bothers me about the primaries. Not the disagreements, the complete and utter bullshit of half of the attacks.
(Not just towards Cain, of course, but he’s certainly been getting his allotment these last few days.)
We need to evolve into a place where leveling a bullshit charge is viewed as a greater offense than being simply wrong about any given thing.
That.
With penalties.
speaking of bs
Link
It was depressing to read the bashing at ace’, by a guest poster, bashing Cain for this. It makes them seem unprincipled.
Sounds like there is now one confirmation from a principal to that story.
There is more in that twitter feed.
I don’t see any confusion either; I’m on Cain’s e-mail list and here’s a quote from a message about the Morgan interview:
“As President, I will appoint judges who understand the original intent of the Constitution. Judges who are committed to the rule of law know that the Constitution contains no right to take the life of unborn children.
I will oppose government funding of abortion. I will veto any legislation that contains funds for Planned Parenthood. I will do everything that a President can do, consistent with his constitutional role, to advance the culture of life.”
(emphasis Cain’s)
Ruling Class: “We already had a black guy elected president (don’t everybody thanks us all at once)! Now we have to start vetting all these other black guys who want to be elected president or else — God help us all! — there might be another one!
So confusing, this Cain-abortion thing. Why, it’d be like a candidate saying he’s anti-illegal immigrant while offering in-state tuition waivers to illegals. Oh, wait —
Some seem to be able to understand English.
Oh, look.
di
I think the rape exception is workable if worded as “in the case of reported rape” … i.e. woman is raped, makes a police report, has a rape-kit done, is offered morning-after pills. If pills, fail, there’s a paper-trail that makes her lying about 12 week post-consensual-sex-regrets easy to refute.
So confusing
Best to just get on the Romney Express. Disciplined evasiveness and non-responsive responsiveness eliminates confusion.
To say nothing of the appearance of congnitive dissonance.
#WINNING!
The point is shit like this is (somewhat) avoidable if you recognize the press is out to get you. Certainly it is something faced by every GOP candidate (Obama of course mostly got a pass). The really depressing part is not the attacks from the left, but the back stabbing of Cain from people who should be defending him. But hey Ace and Allah want to help Perry Glenn Beck wants to help Mitt Romney.
I think it’s confusing to hear a guy what likes to occasionally yammer about his slave ancestry bitch and moan about making education available to kids what are in this country through no choice of their own.
“Cain appears to be genuinely pro-life but is clearly not thoroughly well=-versed or comfortable on discussing the issue of abortion. His past history spending money on pro-life advertisements and railing against the racist nature of Planned Parenthood and its abortion agenda suggests he clearly opposes abortions and wants to protect unborn children under the law. But Cain will have to become more articulate on explaining those pro-life principles and doing so in a way that does not involve using typically “pro-choice” phrases such as government not making decisions for women if he wants to be taken seriously as a possible Republican presidential nominee by the majority of Republicans and Americans who are pro-life.”
i think they want herman to have aborted fetus pics on his web site
Sure. Because education should be free to everyone, just like healthcare.
…and if the daddy becomes unemployed, why, he should get unemployment benefits just like everyone else!
it’s confusing
This part I can totally believe. Life is complicated. Sometimes for pikachus it’s best to maybe stay out of the adult conversations altogether. Because they’re confusing.
petey doesn’t disappoint
Herman Cain’s Shallow and Contradictory Claims
On second thought, forget the rent, because why should ownership only be for the 1%?
Because education should be free to everyone, just like healthcare.
no they have to pay the same tuition as all their neighbors and the kids they grew up with
“but what if an illegal immigrant gets pregnant with an anchor baby”
Maybe they could give her the new abortion pill.
It kills the mother but the baby lives.
petey doesn’t disappoint
You spend a lot of time reading Clark Clifford Republican columnists, newrouter.
(Last time I link that, I swear)
thanks saw that the other day
Glenn Beck wants to help Mitt Romney
No he doesn’t: he says Romney is a big-gubmint Republican and is pretty disappointed in him.
Beck may be LDS, but he’s not tribal about it. I mean, come on: Harry Reid.
Link
did we know this no one tells me anything it’s becoming a pattern
With Fatty McAwesome out she has moved on…Romney/Cain
more Romney slash porn
Really?
Okay, I’m ready to put a bet on it. She’s about a week from pulling the full Pawlenty.
there’s a lot purity testing go on
going on
Like this, nr? “Obama’s secret weapon: Mark Levin”.
Mark is damaging Mittens, you see, and should just shut his conservative face!
my favorite mittens cartoon. when mittens say he supports a i know he can also make the case for h,m,q,w maybe b.
a redstater does a climb down
Link
@37″But Cain will have to become more articulate on explaining those pro-life principles and doing so in a way that does not involve using typically “pro-choice” phrases”
@58″Herman Cain’s statements on abortion during this campaign season have not been as clear as they should have been.”
i think there was a whole lotta spinning of intent going on here.
Isn’t reliapundit the guy who thought it was just terrible that people made fun of the jihadis after the G.I. Joe hostage pic?
Why yes — yes he is.
Paul Ryan discusses 999.
Here’s what I think Cain should do to stop the “concerns” over his plan: Tell people that 9-9-9 = 27, and that if Congress starts tinkering with those rates, it will no longer = 27. So they shouldn’t do that, and the voters shouldn’t let them. He just decided 9-9-9 was more catchy than “about 27%, all told”.
he should tell them it’s cause it takes nine months for a fetus to become a baby
yup that’s how goddamn pro-life this motherfucker is
That was good to hear, thanks Jeff. To add to Ryan’s comments toward the tail-end of his talk, when he speaks about the criticisms on the “growth” of the rates and the super-majority requirement to change the rates inresponse, etc., Cain, it seems to me, further aims to arrive “as soon as possible” at a Fair Tax system, which if assumed for the sake of discussion, augurs against a tri-plex system to be gamed. That, of course, isn’t to say that the Fair Tax itself is necessarily perfect, just that the criticisms leveled at Cain’s 9-9-9, claiming there isn’t a means to hold the rates to 9%, don’t work quite in the same fashion as against a Fair Tax.
How long did it take NG’s fetus to become a baby again?
mr cain should take a holiday and beat up epa.
he was a whimsical little fetus
Aren’t they all…
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The confusion lies among those who support Israel today strictly for the purpose of preserving its existence for a preordained but blessed future destruction. Which, incidentally, is not confusing at all.
This is just the Manipulators’ attempt at perception control. Any time I hear the press and the RINOs talk about ‘taking back the narrative’ or getting away from the ‘extremists of the Tea Party, ‘ I can safely assume that they would rather have a Potemkin man like the current empty suit misgoverning. We should just stay focused on getting a Bad Man out of office and putting a Good Man in.
The idiocy continues taking its toll. The leftist educators have done a wonderful job for their cause. Reading may be fundamental but understanding has become optional at best.
Useful idiots on the march to give us establishment GOPers from now til the end of time. I’m serious. The best thing is a third party that overtakes the GOP. It won’t let itself be taken over and revised.
that read like it was written by a kid in high school
Judson Phillips has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer. You might as well disregrd him. Everyone else does.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/22/krauthammer-down-on-herman-cain-he-is-winging-it/
Krauthammer, et tu? No surprise there.
And of course billyjon has a link to anyone saying that, not involving Daily Kos, HuffPo, etc.
Huckabee saying Cain is pro-choice, and that the damage is done. Begging the question, who the fuck asked Mike Huckabee a goddamned thing?
huckabee is a establican tool
So is Huckabee supporting Romney or Perry now?
These critics of Cain mostly have their own agendas and candidates to support. As RSM noted, nothing personal Herman…just business.
Coulter is supporting Romney. After squealing for Christie for months on end — the same Christie who backed Mike Castle. It’s like my world has been turned upside down.
According to Ace’s sidebar, Christine O’Donnell is also supporting Romney.
Turner is Hooch, Jake is The Fat Man, etc.
my what an abundance of clark clifford rethuglicans
Public choice theory.
Or, in pw syntax, GMU is U of C.
Ja. I don’t get the Coulter-Romney connection. Huckabee is, bless his heart, almost the kiss of death as far as I’m concerned. Christie is, well, down here in Texas we would call him a Democrat.
Oh, and go Mark Levin!!!
We have two options. (Okay, maybe more. In the paradigm jumping around in my head I think we have two.)
One, someone with cash needs to start hinting that there are other sinecures they could attain whether or not Romney wins.
Two, we could start standing up and telling those who are moving towards Romney that we see through their bullshit and know they’re self-interested bullshit artists.
Bribe ’em or remove their fig leaf. Maybe both.
RE Cain’s tax plan that will require more from taxpayers who are accustomed to paying little or nothing: We on the right should embrace the concept. As the left has so often reminded us — it takes a village. And (as stated by a member of the current administration, only referring to the “rich”) — we all are beneficiaries of the infrastructure of our society.
I am sick of hearing how half the people pay no income taxes. Even if it’s $1 or $10, everyone who lives in this great country should contribute.
Shared sacrifice! Everyone’s gotta have some skin in the game!
These are ideas that I have been told are good ones, mainly by those who will surely object to their implementation.
The notable I’m interested to watch is Michelle Bachmann (I could care less about Ann Coulter, christ, she’s from Connecticut.). Which way will she go? To Romney? To Newt? To Cain? To Perry? Not that her view will sway my own, mind, just that I’m curious to see how she perceives her leadership of the House Tea Party caucus.
She’s been on my watch list for awhile now, sdferr.
I wonder, if she pulls the wrong string, does her own congressional district think twice about sending her back? Now that would be funny.
I suppose that could happen.
But, she’s a great rep. Just not so great — or properly motivated — at stopping Romney.
One hell of a lot of people are going to be 2012’s Frum/Brooks/Noonan unless they pull Romney’s nuts past the 50% mark and over both finish lines. What people won’t do to be Ambassador to WTF-istan.
You won’t find me doing it. As everyone here in the blogosphere knows, I’m not a team player — that is, if the team is a big ball of ineffectual suck.
The latest from Commentary is that Cain is very much like Obama.
So sad that the right is being led around by a bunch of big government types whose only care is getting the power and access for themselves.
Maybe you should pick up the Romney banner, Jeff.
That has funny written all over it.
OT: I would love to do this, but the wife would kill me.
Look, as someone linked recently, Romney’s already picked up the coveted Jimmy Carter endorsement. After that, it’s all just gravy.
“The latest from Commentary is that Cain is very much like Obama.”
yea the hermanator was “community organizing” burger kings and pizza shops.
That’s interesting. As is this.
Amazing the things you can pull out of your ass, ain’t it?
I’m making a list.
Checking it twice.
Etc, etc.
So, Coulter is singing a different tune this morning with some Herman love and some scorn for the GOP field’s practiced obtuseness as to 9-9-9. My guess is she’s been reading her email.
the career politician lady speaks
Link
Pablo, I pulled that from listening to Beck’s radio show the other day. Where Beck said that Herman Cain’s position was insane. While not quite as harsh, the Blaze is saying it is unclear where Cain is coming from and he may be pro choice.
And while Beck was a Romney supporter in 2008, I agree he has only been luke warm for him this time around. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2489285/posts He is not completely shameless as say…K-Lo or Hewitt.
Lots o’ people were Romney supporters in ’08, when he was arguably the best choice left after teh Fred! and Rudy flamed out.
It’s a testament to the good work of Barack, Harry, and Nancy — they’ve helped move the entire field of GOP candidates quite a bit to the right, and more in line with the actual desires of the base. That the R Leadership is intent on nominating the least acceptable candidate, well, some things never change.
“Today’s GOP: The people who vote for us are an embarassment!”
If you want Cain to throw out some red meat how’s this?
CANNIBALISM! Get Shep Smith on the line…
SDN –
No need to look left for those questioning Cain’s philosophy. You can leave it to Hugh Hewitt and Santorum to get the B-thumpers spooked… The Believers didn’t hear “Constitution/courts/illegal” uttered by Cain – now look for Perry to slowly but surely rebound riding the wave of the faithful.
Gingrich on Cain
Joe, that doesn’t tell me where you got the notion that Beck is on Team Romney. He isn’t, by any stretch of the imagination. “I just don’t trust him.” is his repeated refrain on the subject.
Newt is absolutely right. Herman should hire him.
I assumed it Pablo given his support for Romney in 2008 (which was not reluctant at that time). But if he is saying he does not trust Romney now (I have not heard him say that, but I only hear him occasionally so I could have missed it), that speaks well for Beck.
oh my i’m shocked the pres. of a trade org lobbies really
NYT: Hey, did you know that Herman Cain was once a lobbyist?
Joe, read your link:
He’s not one to endorse candidates, and he’s never been particularly supportive of Romney.
beck from what i hear doesn’t think the answer comes from dc
Pablo, I did not realize you were such a Glenn Beck fan. Okay, he is skeptical of Romney. That makes him sane (and not a whore like Hewitt). He was, however, very supportive of Romney in 2008 (but that may have been more anti McCain in nature).
Someone is also engaging in dirty tricks in Iowa. Hmmmm. http://theothermccain.com/2011/10/23/mysterious-attack-on-herman-cain/ Looks like Team Perry.
“He was, however, very supportive of Romney in 2008 ”
stop the senile mcbastard at any cost
Which is why I said when Mitt Romney was running for president, I don’t want anyone who even flirts with socialism.
Very supportive, that.