Jules Crittenden has to be fucking me (in a heteronormative way):
It’s kind of hard to tell from this Portsmouth Herald article. But it sounds like your right to remove signs other people have planted without authority on your property, and to do so without interference from busybodies, and to express yourself when those things have transpired, is in jeopardy in the Live Free or Die State.
The report indicates that on Election Day, Nov. 4, 2008, a New Hampshire property owner was removing Democratic political signs someone else had planted on his property, when some busybody walking his dog verbally accosted him with the words, “What are you doing? You can’t do that. Who do you think you are?â€Â
To which the property owner, quite reasonably, responded, “Who the (F-bomb) are you?â€Â
At which point the dog owner, who turns out to be a professional busybody, a.k.a. lawyer,* sought to impress the property owner with that fact by presenting his business card. The property owner looked it over, and announced, “Ryan Russman, you are a (F-bombing) (expletive).â€Â
I dunno, sounds like fair comment. But apparently the words were accompanied by some gesturing.
The police, to whom the lawyer complained that he felt threatened, opined in the subsequent disorderly conduct and criminal threatening complaints that the property owner’s “language combined with physical gestures and in the context of the incident shows that the (F-bomb) is used to provoke physical violence.†The police complaint further opines that “his use of the language†was “not an exercise in free speech.†Rather, they were fighting words.
The property owner’s lawyer has countered in a motion that he googled the F-bomb and found 663 million uses “within ten seconds†running a “gamut from nouns, adjectives to strong emphatic.â€Â
WTF? I mean, really? Where does this fucking fucker get off suing the fuck out of this poor fucking guy?
Civility NOW!!!
UPDATE: *gesture*
RELATED: via Joe in the comments, companions of douchebag lose suit over characterization of said douchebag as douchebag
I don’t know anything about the court involved, or the laws of New Hampshire, but my guess as a lawyer is that no cause of action will be found.
And yes, that lawyer is a jerk of the first water.
First thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers. No, really.
Uhh, except Mikey. And Glenn, and the Volokhs. And — well, that ought to about cover it, I guess.
Hahaha, Mike.
This one of the reasons that leftists are so odious. They are unsatisfied with political victory, they require complete submission. Look around, are the lefties satisfied with the new regime? No, They want everything.
In any conflict, the first thing the left does is silence dissent. Look for much more of this kind of shit.
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that any argument of any type can me met by quotes from the following sources (and not in this particular order of precedent):
Jean Paul Sartre
Robert Heinlein
P.J. O’Rourke
The Godfather (I and II only)
Caddyshack.
Live free or die? Whatevs. Jules is apparently afraid to mention the shithead lawyer’s name. It’s Ryan Russman. Ryan Russman will be very comfortable in Baracky’s dirty socialist America I think. It’s sizing up to be tailor-made for him, actually.
If a fucking man cannot tell a fucking busy buddy lawyer with a fucking stupid dog to fuck off in his front fucking yard, then what the fuck?
America is not longer fucking free!
Over/under on the lawyer trolling on this site?
Too bad, Techie. This? This is art!
Hey now, the First Amendment does mention “free speech” but there’s nothing in there about “gestures”.
Perhaps the aggreived homeowner should have whipped out his dick and pissed on the lawyer’s shoes and his dog. That could have been called protected performance art!
On the other hand, if there is justice in the world, Ryan Russman, Esq. will be made a laughingstock.
I don’t know if the lawyer there is a lefty. He may not be. He may just have a superior attitude and is going to use the law to get in his hits. Or he way be as crazy as the admin. judge in DC who had the lawsuit against the drycleaner.
Either way, he is a jerk, and likely doesn’t have a good reputation with the local bar association.
Thanks for the reprieve, Mike.
No really – I mean that.
I grew up in Portsmouth, and still live in NH, and I can tell you this: Ryan Russman is a leech. He’s one of those. He has commericals on the cable channels all the time encouraging people to SUE! SUE! SUE! because, gosh darn it, they are a victim of something surely, and they deserve every darn penny they can get.
A leech on society. I’m still entiled to express my opinion in America, aren’t I?
http://patterico.com/2009/02/13/douchebag-loses-lawsuit-over-claim-that-he-is-douchebag/
Justice in New Jersey but not in New Hampshire? Go figure.
If we killed all the lawyers, who could we possibly find smart enough for public office?
Most states have curse and abuse statutes, and that sort of thing just isn’t automatically protected speech. Really.
It’s possible to say nothing, or say “none of your business,” “go away from me” in any number of ways that don’t involve cursing or abusive language. It likewise wouldn’t be legal to take a swing at a guy poking his nose into your yardsign hygeine projects.
I am waiting for the smoking gun reporing on a court opinion from some New Hampshire that embarasses Counselor Ryan Russman, Douchebag At Law.
Hey Seth, can you put a “Ryan Russman is a leech” sign out in your yard?
I wonder if he’s ever been ruled a vexatious litigant.
Also there is nothing to get one over on somebody than by being civil in a way that humiliates them. Acting like a big sweary brute makes them think they have made you lose it. And they lol.
SarahW,
“Meatlife” trolls?
SarahW–I am all for public civility. But this was a discussion between two presumed adult males and Mr. Russman started it. If a man cannot drop the f-bomb on a busybody who bothers him on his own front lawn, there is no justice in America anymore.
Ryan Russman is also not a man. Dan Collins has a phrase for this type of individual (it applies to snippy, but it would be impolite for me to mention it to you).
Careful, Seth. There may be a class action in this for leeches.
Whatever you do, don’t post the words “Ryan Russman” and “shyster” near each other on the web. If Google sees “Ryan Russman” and “shyster” close to each other on the same page a lot, it starts associating “Ryan Russman” and “shyster”. That would probably make Ryan Russman unhappy, because he wouldn’t want anybody to think he was a shyster, which I’m sure he isn’t.
Art!
Joe, it’s not that I’m unsympathetic with that viewpoint, but as a matter of law the lawyer has a hook to hang his vexatiousness on.
Basically your on thin, unprotected free speech ice if you drop the f-bomb in that way in your front yard.
you’re
He should have said, “Demme, who the devil are you?”
Imagining for a moment that I were this busybody, though, and I’d said that, and gotten that response, I think that rather than be a pompous twatwaffle about it, I would have laughed.
Aww, crap. Mea culpa: I confused Russman with another lawyer:
This one is the leech.
Got the TV adds of Feinstein mixed up with the radio ads of Russman. If only I had layers of editors and fact checkers.
I have no real opinion of Russman…other than he sounds like he’s rather self important and meddlesome.
I also failed to close that HTML tag. This is a red letter day for me.
I don’t get it, Sarah. Here’s what the fascist beg-the-question idiot cop says:
And yet… wondrously… no physical violence was provoked. How can this be?
Okay SarahW, I assume you have not walked by groups of teenagers in conversation lately in public spaces. I am not defending rude behavior, but men are expected to act like men. This lawyer is not a man. But this aggreived property owner should have called this busybody this and left it at that.
I vote number one for Counselor Russman.
As as I am inclined to spam, I will say it again, because it is so true:
Jean-Paul Sartre stated ‘man is condemned to be douchey because once thrown into the world he is responsible for every douchey thing that he does.’
ok, Debbie, if someone were wanting to menace someone, don’tcha think they’d drop a “pile of signs” they were encumbered with? Especially if they were anticipating some violence precipitated by their cunningly manipulative insertion of the “f-word” into the argument. You go ride your bike and think about that, sweetie.
Well, the law is an ass, SarahW.
For which in DC they’re completely uprooting the little bastard to make room for eight lanes of progress, fortunately.
Fucking fuck that fucking fuck!
And to paraphrase the immortal words of Col. Frank Slade (Ret.) in Scent of a Woman:
To Witness Debbie Orloff: Fuck you too.
Maybe I should have said at #5 every Al Paccino movie is fair game for quotes, with the exception of Cruising and Godfather III.
Has anyone seen that one kid what talks about the intentionalism around anywhere?
[…] Protein Wisdom: Asshat to Bombadeer […]
And yet… wondrously… no physical violence was provoked. How can this be?
Obama. If Bush were still President somebody would of took a ass-whipping.
It’s old law. Here’s some history that might amuse:
Society stiff, keeping chickens in this neighborhood!
Punching doesn’t have to be got around to, ’cause traditionally it’s enough that punching tends to result after certain activities. Threat to the peace, and so forth.
Gee…
I wonder if this means they’re going to have to stop allowing vile rap videos to be palyed in N.H…?
My guess? NO…Because that would be RAAAAAAAAAAACIST!…
Those aren’t fighting words anymore, they’re cultural idiomatic expressions…
That’s interesting, Sarah. It says that early on it was explicitly understood that words calculated to provoke violence had to actually provoke violence to be considered words what were provocative of violence (breach of peace). And then of course all manner of case law and extra statutes got piled on top to where it’s pretty much arbitrary depending on what mood the judge is in that day. It’s still inherently about intent though. I think RebeccaH at Mr. Crittenden’s place has it right. Lawyers what get in the faces of people they don’t at all know and get all business cardy are the ones intending to provoke shit.
awesome google-fu there by the way
“Idiomatic expressions”
Casual sweariness in front of the ladies is probably no longer perceived as crime unless it gets too obnoxious and loud.
But add that element of implied “I back up my swears with fucking violence, buddy” puffing up like a cockatoo or spitting hellfire cat, or frilled lizard , it’s not automatically protected speech. Getting in someones face with oaths and curses can be a crime, even if you are standing outside on your lawn.
I hate frilled lizards.
I’m thinking he’ll get off with time served in sweary-court.
“Lawyers what get in the faces of people they don’t at all know and get all business cardy are the ones intending to provoke shit”
They all stick together, though. And use their indoor voices to scare.
He’ll have to eat his legal fees though, and that’s detrimental to the social fabric I think. I really do.
Joe,
I’ve found that “be the ball” works in most situations. It confuzzles well.
They do all stick together cause when they don’t the consequences can be pretty ghastly. Patterico’s AutoAdmit post comes to mind. I couldn’t find anyone involved what was particularly sympathetic.
We just can’t have that damnable dumbassed human nature stuff running around free like that. It won’t do. It simply must be controlled or perhaps better, eliminated altogether and replaced by an all-encompassing rule book, maybe carried about for easy reference in the form of a Government issued Kindle-like thingy.
If you question them they hand you bibliographies two pages long and tell you to “look it up”.
I might threaten to punch a guy like that.
When I interned at the DA, I would have begged my superiors to let me just drop this, or let him plead to a DC summary at worst. But I’m not a lawyer, though I do sit for the bar in ten days or so.
Next time he will have sweary court in the back of his mind. Instead of loudness and fisticuffs in the offing , he will say “Sir, this is my yard and these are my signs. You are very observant, though. Who are you, so wise in the way of signage? Thank you, I shall be sure to keep your card for future reference. Now, I must be about my work. Would you kindly take your fine person on its way to the end of the block, before I summon the local constabulary?
Or maybe not.
Hmm. If I were removing signs someone had placed on my property, and the culprit had come along to challenge my right to do so, I would have told him to get off my property, and never come back under pain of citizen’s arrest for criminal trespass.
I would have further informed him that since the signs were on my property they were therefore my property as well, and I could dispose of them as I pleased. If that was not the intent of the person who put them there, he ought to take more care in the future.
Perhaps instead he will go straight to kicking him until he is dead.
The asshat in question
And if I wanted to insult him I would have looked at his business card, chuckled, and said, “I could ell you were a lawyer when you came slithering up to me.”
Of course placing the signs was a trespass.
His website has an e-mail address for a free case review. It would be wrong, of course, to have fun with that.
Outlaw-y, but wrong.
I believe that in most states it’s not criminal trespass unless the trespasser has been warned against it. Fun fact, if true.
The thing with “DWI” lawyers is that, in a lot of cases, they’re basically stealing money. I don’t know about NH, but for many states, you basically get the first one for free (assuming no one was hurt) with a special plea or program. Sometimes the circumstances under which they get caught are kind of funky, and there’s some lawyering to be done, but those cases are not that common.
I believe that in most states it’s not criminal trespass unless the trespasser has been warned against it
Or has been told to leave and doesn’t. Also, if you intend to do something criminal on the property.
If you shoot well, he can’t sue later.
OT? Not really. Just in case you haven’t seen this yet.
Damn, I miss that series.
I think the “fighting words” concept is in recognition of human nature, in that it’s possible to enrage somebody to the point where they go nucking futs for a few moments. Most times, people can restrain themselves from punching the wall, throwing a glass across the room, or other socially bothersome behavior. Or, if you poke a caged bear enough so it busts out of the cage and rips your arm off, we’ll still shoot the bear but it’s your own damn stupid fault that you have no arm. Hence, the law takes a dim view of provoking someone to the point where they lose control of themselves. Which, when considering radical Islamists, takes an interesting turn seeing as how several of those folks are so easily provoked.
You better be careful Sarah or someone will think you like defending douchebags.
Is “puffing” a term of art in criminal law circles?
If this is about “puffing”, why not charge them both and let the Court decide if it is nothing or something.
Or better yet, he could have taken off his gloves, lightly slapped the counselor’s face in a token gesture, their seconds would have arranged the terms, and then they would have met on a field of honor and settled the matter like gentlemen.
And by the way, I am pretty sure there are virtually no fighting words left, other than making disparaging remarks about Democratic candidates. Perhaps that is what they got this property owner for.
SarahW
You have the right to remove litter from your yard. Political signs are litter.
Ryan Russman is a fucking shit.
You are a concern troll.
Also a busybody, a fussbudget, a buttinski, a worrywart, and a fool.
Not to mention a tyrannical old hen with an inflated sense of propriety, and no substantial connection with reality.
Which is to say; there’s a good reason why your parents won’t let you out of the house.
Your problem is not that Eric Rieseberg used bad words, it’s that he used on an authority figure. Namely, a lawyer. In your servile word using bad words on a lawyer is double plus ungood and must be eschewed with might and vigor.
You’re also a delicate flower who wilts at the sight of meanness. For this reason you would have us all degraded to your level of discourse at all times. I say malarky. Mr. Rieseberg’s words were called for, and it is Mr. Russman who called for them. Mr. Russman was hostile and confrontational, and got exactly what he asked for. He didn’t want courtesy, he wanted a case.
We are not meek and mild bunny rabbits and you’re not going to make us into meek and mild bunny rabbits. Now go and concern troll a Pharyngula thread and see how far it takes you.
Ah. . .
. . .used them on. . .
and. . .
. . .servile world. . .
Applying these corrections at the proper location wins you a fabulous noprize.
Sara is not a concern troll, Mr. Kellogg. She’s one of my favoritest ones.
I mean *SarahW* …
You just couldn’t be more off base really, but I like your enthusiasm.
Also I threw in something about kicking ’til dead. That has to count for something
meek and mild bunny rabbits might could be a tautology though I think
I went back and read SarahW’s stuff again. I can’t get within 2 parsecs of where Alan thinks she is.
But maybe I misinterpreted Sarah’s intent and didn’t get where she lurvs douchebaggy lawyer-type guys. I just thought she meant that based on the homeowner’s vigorous response the douchebaggy lawyer-type guy had something to hang a douchebaggy complaint on.
If this had happened in TX, and I told the scum-sucking lawyer to get the fuck off my lawn, he would have had two choices: get the hell off of my lawn, or become shot, since I have no duty to retreat.
This is what I love about TX: we don’t have to put up with assholes on our lawn as long as the ammo holds out.
Since it is New Hampshire, I would go with hockey sticks at dawn.
I’ll never forget the one about a guy talking to his friend, “So I go to this fucking club, and I get fucking loaded, meet this fucking chick and we get along fucking great. Before I fucking knew it we were in her fucking room, she takes off her fucking clothes and we have sexual intercourse.”
I knew a guy, after a 4 year hitch in the Navy he actually talked like that.
oh crap. I don’t think I got that one before the buzzer went off.
I always thought the “fighting words” concept was used to reduce a battery down to a mutual combatant situation. As in, the guy called the lawyer a mean name, so said lawyer could hit him and claim “fighting words”. If the lawyer stood there and took it, accusing him of loving his mama too much would seem to be free speech. It seems you east/west coast types have different laws. I’ll have to re-examine the above link. I noticed years ago that the use of force law in Indiana is about three sentences. California use of force law, including lethal force, was about as long as the Indiana criminal code.
#79
I’m all for it.
SDN, regarding Texas, I’m a big fan of that big state. Been there twice, loved it, loved the people. State pride like no other. I hear long before that law passed, shooting a fleeing burglar in the back couldn’t get you prosecuted, because the jury would always let you walk. Strong libertarian streak and everyone was just sick of crooks getting away with it.
Bitch of a state to drive through, though. Seeing mile marker 800something gets disheartening.
As far as i can remember from the law school stuff on ‘fighting words’, mere profanity isn’t enough.
In IL this would not have qualified as a DC. The very best the guy could have hoped for would be an assualt (being placed in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery). But a guy with an armload of signs just cussing – nope.
Unfortunately, Sir, NH has taken a turn hard left. Must be all those Bostonites fleeing what progressivism hath wroth…only to wroth it again (heh).
…much like Chicagoans fleeing Illinois to Indiana’s lower taxes, then voting themselves into the same boat. Been there.
I Yield To My Learned Brother
or
Is There a Candlestick Maker
in the House?
by Ogden Nash
The doctor gets you when you’re born,
The preacher, when you marry,
And the lawyer lurks with costly clerks
If too much on you carry.
Professional men, they have no cares;
Whatever happens, they get theirs.
You can’t say When
To professional men,
For it’s always When to they;
They go out and golf
With the big bad wolf
In the most familiar way.
Hard times for them contain no terrors;
Their income springs from human errors.
The noblest lord is ushered in
By the practicing physician,
And the humblest lout is ushered out
By a certified mortician.
And in between, they find their foyers
Alive with summonses from lawyers.
Oh, would my parents long ago
Had memorized this motto!
For then might I, their offspring, buy
A Rolls or an Isotto.
But now I fear I never can,
For I am no professional man.
You can’t say When
To professional men,
For it’s always When to they;
They were doing fine
In ’29,
And they’re doing fine today.
“In your servile word using bad words on a lawyer is double plus ungood and must be eschewed with might and vigor.”
There’s a lawyer joke in there somewhere.
Mikey NTH, help me out.
“This is what I love about TX: we don’t have to put up with assholes on our lawn as long as the ammo holds out.”
Indeed, in this state the 2nd Amendment makes good neighbors.
Everybody else gets one warning shot.
No warning shots. That’s a thing of Hollywood.
serr8d,
Somebody around here told a story about a fellow had a ranch here in Texas (I think it was down here). Gate 300+ yards from the house. Had a big steel plate with bullet holes in it right next to the gate/call box. If no one answers leave a hand written message at the call box kinda thing. Stating purpose and need/ question.
The idea being there was an unseen well-sighted scope drilled in on your chest from the time you pulled up to the gate and got out of the car.
I love Texas that way.
SarahW is cool. I think she is saying a rant could be a criminal offense. I doubt this one was of that level, but that is technically possible.
You’re certainly a quick study, Alan, reckoning all that in-between stuff out of a few comments.
Say, what do you make of this next one?
I say bilgewater.
And Bonzo Dog Band.