The power of groupthink again asserts itself as the MSM frames the narrative on the latest quarterly report from the Pentagon.
The Washington Post declares there has been “No Drop in Iraq Violence Seen Since Troop Buildup” in a strory by Anne Scott Tyson (who has been known to take dictation from antiwar groups):
Three months into the new U.S. military strategy that has sent tens of thousands of additional troops into Iraq, overall levels of violence in the country have not decreased, as attacks have shifted away from Baghdad and Anbar, where American forces are concentrated, only to rise in most other provinces, according to a Pentagon report released yesterday.
Similarly, The New York Times blares: “Violence Rising in Much of Iraq, Pentagon Says,” while the LA Times claims “Iraq violence up since troop increase.” The Associated Press usues the economical headline, “Pentagon: Iraqi Violence Still Rising,” which claims that “Violence in Iraq, as measured by casualties among troops and civilians, has edged higher despite the U.S.-led security push in Baghdad, the Pentagon told Congress on Wednesday.”
All of which is (to borrow a phrase from Sen. Tom Harkin) a heap of dung.
It appears that many in the media (and in the blogosphere) are incapable of reading a report or a bar chart. The period covered in the latest report extended from February 10th through May 4th, though most of the MSM coverage implies the entire month of May is included. It also includes four days before any part of the current operation was launched—days which account for (by my count using iCasualties) at least 234 civilian deaths.
Even worse, it is fantastically misleading for the media to claim that there has been no drop in overall violence since the beginning of the “surge.” Again, iCasualties has the numbers:
Nov-06 1864
Dec-06 1752
Jan-07 1802
Feb-07 3014
Mar-07 2977
Apr-07 1821
May-07 1980
Jun-07 666 (so far)
It is easy to see the pattern. Civilian deaths were rapidly shooting up in advance of the surge, and they have been headed generally down as US troops have been deployed over the past three months.
Defying the antiwar groupthink is USA Today, which talked to Gen. David Petraeus and gives a full accounting of the good and bad points of the latest report. But even USA Today misses some important points. For example, the paper mentions that:
The number of unidentified bodies found in Baghdad  an indicator of sectarian violence between Sunni and Shiite Muslims  dropped from a high of 1,782 in October to 411 in April, according to an Interior Ministry official who declined to be named because he is not authorized to speak to the media.
The paper misses the fact that nationwide, sectarian murders have dropped from over 1600 in December 2006 to a little over 600 in April—a drop of 62.5%.
Update: In “Baghdad Crackdown Seeks Sunni Help,” the AP reports that “The security operation has failed to curb violence nationwide,” but buried later in the story you find this:
The death toll among Iraqi civilians, military and police around Iraq has dipped marginally when comparing figures for the four months before the security drive. The four-month death toll before the operation was 7,919 while the number for the past four months was 7,281, according to the AP count.
The pre-operation period, however, included the particularly deadly months of October through December last year, violence that in part led Bush to order more troops sent to Iraq.
In the statistical credit column for the security operation, deaths in Baghdad dipped to 3,764 in the period since Feb. 14, as compared to 5,585 in the four-month period preceding the crackdown. But killings linked to Sunni-Shiite showdowns outside the capital have risen.
So the failed operation has reduced deaths by 33% in its main theater of operations, and reduced deaths by around 8% overall, with the current monthly level about 40% of what it was when the operation started. That’s some failure.
Update 2: The Washington Post proclaims, “U.S. Says Iraq Troop Surge Complete.”
Really? Here’s the actual quote:
“The strategic movement of forces into the theater is complete, and the surge is just starting,” said U.S. military spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Garver.
Granted, headline writers have to simplify stories. But there’s a difference between simplification and contradiction. It seems like a lot of folks on the left side of the aisle and the subset in the MSM are judging things by Woody Allen’s rule that “80% of success is showing up.” The US military knows better.
And, as noted in the interview with Austin Bay (linked below), the “surge” hasn’t really even begun yet in earnest. Instead, the buildup has occurred, with the “surge” taking place in a few areas (which have seen progress).
What’s remarkable to me is that the Dem congress gave Petraeus time—and is now furiously hoping to cut him off at the knees before he can get the strategy into full swing.
Why could that be, I wonder? Because they love the troops?
Because as even the LA Times reported (see my earlier post today), the Marines sure don’t think so.
Nice analysis.
Hey, I’m trying to link this over at Dean’s World, but the permalink comes to the comments without showing the article. Is there a problem or am I just missing something? Last post doesn’t seem to have this issue.
Thank you Jeff, Austin Bay, and Karl, for going through all of this. I have no faith at all in the media to report these issues with even a modicum of accuracy.
It would be interesting to see which, if any, media outlets actually note that the “surge” is not yet implemented in full. If the over/under was 10, I would bet on the under.
TallDave.
It’s an EE bug of some sort. Once this post is bumped down you should be able to link it.
We’re switching over to WordPress soon—much of the work is down, but we still have to move everything from here over—so hopefully by next week sometime people will be able to link here, trackback, etc.
Isn’t it funny that Iraq is embroiled in a civil war and Palestine is merely a “factional conflict”.
Sometimes I wonder if these journalist snicker as they write this garbage.
That particular quote was a descriptive used in the FT.
Karl,
That’s all well and good, but how do you respond to the fact that the surge isn’t working?
By asking how you are defining “working” or perhaps “fact.”
The premise of the question is completely flawed and as asked it is unanswerable.
The report mentions that the overall level of violence this quarter remained similar to the previous reporting period but shifted location (p.24).
Have you gleaned any information as to why that is, ronaldo?
Shifted location to where the surge is not yet implemented perhaps Ronaldo…?
Both Karl and Jeff are doing yoeman’s work to frame this discussion in facts and reports.
None of it matters to the trolls.
Once you have fully drunk the Lime Green Fiasco in History Koolaide no amount of stats, reviews, interviews or reasoned analysis has any purpose other than to perpetuate a psychotic grasping of failed policies by deluded neocons on the chickenhawk right.
The Narrative has been set in biodegradable stucco and ye shall touch it not. The polls tell us so!
Thus the Senate Majority leader and the Speaker of the House, urged on by the baying hounds of the far left peace mongers, can publically write the President to say his surge plan has failed even before its fully implemented. Regardless of the stunning impropriety and hugely questionable analysis The Narrative must be served.
Opinion is stated as “fact.” Fervent belief is offered as “truth.” Honest disagreement is called “thugishness” or, worst, “insanity.” Historical lessons are devalued or patently ignored because The Narrative requires none, unless it is an utterly twisted Vietnam “quagmire” concept.
The Narrative trumps all, it’s power derived from the sensitive and sensible left, steeped in enlightenment and crafted by the “obvious to thinking people” and the latest, greatest poll numbers.
The fevered hope is that someday The Narrative will become The Matrix. Maybe it already has for our friends on the left, altrhough none of them will, in good conscience, will take the name “neo.”
Facts are delusional, analysis is hallucination, persistance is pigheadedness, victory is defeat.
Be sure to check your flash cards and take the red pill.
I’ll answer that as soon as you tell me why the media are using casualty figures from the months before the surge build up began to say that “it isn’t working”.
Gents, I’m pretty certain that tachyonshuggy was just snarking, and that the question posed is unserious by design.
The landlady mentioned that the overall level of violence in the city this quarter remained similar to the previous reporting period but in our neighborhood declined because the crack ho’s and pimps and dealers shifted location when the cops rolled in here.
What the hell is it about international affairs that so thoroughly has folks taking complete leave of their senses?!
And the trolls wonder why the realists resort to sarcasm:
Precisely. The American Left. Proudly conforming reality to preconception since the Jimmy Administration.
schools67
Wouldn’t a normal person assume that an increase in military activity, by its very nature, will result in increased casualties on both sides?
Yes.
Wait, that came out too snarky… what I clumsily tried to say is that I’m not expecting a huge downtown in violence, because our guys will be doing more shooting of their guys (and vice versa). In a war where you are trying to defeat the enemy (mainly by killing them), I would assume that this is an unfortunate reality.
Of course, I’m fully expecting the media and their fellow travelers to claim increased bloodshed is a sign that the “surge” is failing, when it actually signifies quite the opposite.
Oh, f***… I meant “downturn in violence,” not “downtown.” Sorry, I missed my morning martini, and am just not on my game today.
Yeah, but ‘downtown’ fitted so neatly with JHoward’s perfect Cops & Crime analogy just above that it looked fine.
Just a hint of vermouth & face Little Italy.
Sorry, Percy, but it matters not to the service of The Narrative as any casualties in a Never Should Have Gone and Now It’s Failed enterprise constitute failure.
WALK TOWARDS THE LIGHT!!!
8% reduction!!!! Awesome. Since peace has broken out, can we come home?
In other, non-Karl spins:
So, civilians in Iraq are only dying at the rate of 100 per day! The last 6 months in Iraq were the bloodiest of the entire operation. Finally, no surge, no escalation, no killing of Iraqis will end the Sunni insurgency until a political reconciliation is at hand. Either that comes from Parliament or it comes from the civil war. The stated goal of the “surge” was to provide political room to maneuver. Whether or not we can cut the Iraqi dead to 92 a day (another 8% drop!), the “surge” will have to end (because it is a tempo of operations the Pentagon cannot sustain and the American people will not support). If at the end of that time, there is no political solution, then the “surge” was all for naught anyway.
Celebrate the spin, Karl, Jeff and folks, but unless there is political movement (hint: there hasn’t been), the “surge” has not worked. War is about more than numbers of KIA.
The word “violence” has, at least since the ‘60s, always been used to morally equate two very different actions, unprovoked attacks and self-defense. MEGO whenever I see “level of violence” in a so-called news article.
Since idiocy has broken out, you can go home, Timmah! The big people have a conflict to resolve.
Wipe the spittle off your chin, timmah.
While Timmyb serves The Narrativeâ„¢, he makes a good point here;
Except for the fact that a political reconciliation can only be accomplished by the rule of law and the recognition of the duly elected government. The surge is designed to not only provide an increased level of security in troubled areas but also to make it so costly for Sunni diehards (al qaeda or Baathist insurgents) that enough will abandon chaos and embrace the order.
So arguing that politcal reconciliation will only happen when the killing stops begs the understanding that one must proactively engage those hellbent on torpedoing this goal.
Unless, of course, you are invested in the fantasy that if the US military leaves Iraq, violence will suddenly disappear in a Shia/Sunni hugfest celebrating release from the “occupiers.”
Leave the Iraqis to sort it out “Dodge City” style?
But that’s just The Narrativeâ„¢ talkin’…
Will the worsening Palestinian situation prompt a critical reassessment of Al Qaeda’s priorities on the part of AQ’s financiers, and among Arabs more broadly?
Isn’t that what the Iraq Study Group report implied?
What’s the definition of success? A murder rate equal to Detroit’s? No deaths at all, even from natural causes? Fewer deaths than under Saddam? Would that include those starved by
Saddam siphoning off the OFF payolaour sanctions?If there was a “D” after the president’s name, the story would be different. Just like the rotten GWB economy as opposed to the statistically similar but wonderful Clinton years.
Why would it? We’re talking about people who have made murder an integral part of their faith.
Have you e-mailed that thought to the editorial staff of any major news organs? I hear the 6AM ABC World News on Radio every morning while driving in to work. We get a 5 second “3 more US dead in Iraq” as the entirety of their coverage…
What’s the definition of success?
I asked that question on another thread recently.
I’m still picking the crickets out of my ears….
By definition, a surge is not something that you seek to sustain. It is a sudden and considerable but temporary rise- rather like a wave which crashes high up on the beach before receding to the sea, carrying the crap away with it and leaving nice clean sand behind.
The surge is supposed to end, tim. In due course. And the purpose of the surge is to overwhelm the terrorists who are trying to drag Iraq down into internecine carnage.
I see evidence that the surge is working already. I see none that it has failed and none suggesting that it will fail.
I just suspect that if the West Bank is seen as being co-opted, and Gaza as beleaguered and isolated, that Iraq may seem less important in the face of declining returns on the terror investment there. Won’t the Egyptian money guys be distracted by the emergence of a fledgling Islamic republic right next door?
Happy, I think they’ll be scared to death. Watch what you wish for, “President” Mubarak, because it might just bite you in the ass.
Timmyb,
First, there is at least one point of agreement. The “surge” is supposed to create more security—particularly in baghdad—for the purpose of giving the Iraqi government some breathing space to make progress on reconciliation, oil distribution, constitutional amendments, etc. And so far the Iraqis are dithering. But it’s generally beeen the pattern that they will run up to (and usually a mite) past any deadline before they ultimately act. So the jury’s still out on that, imo.
Second, regarding the 8% reduction, it can be said that (a) the quarterly measure does not exactly match the surge period, and the reduction would be larger than 8% if it did; and (b) even the 8% figure AQ and the sectarian militia were unable to keep up their operational tempo, even measured on the crude quarterly basis.
Third, if you’re suggesting that the quarterly numbers are more important than the trend over time—which shows a 60% drop from the February peak (and June looks to be even better so far)—I would like to see the argument for that.
The only money Egypt has to spend comes from the US taxpayer.
You devious, manipulative, rhymes with Toulouse.
Have we ever fought a war before where our strategies are announced to the world, in advance, and the efficacy of same is debated openly, prior to the implementation of same ?
timmyb, you little freak, answer the question: What’s the solution in and for Iraq? I mean, given that neither the surge nor the GWOT is working.
You mean like this?
A moonbat recently asserted to me that all this noise was the Left pandering to the philistine neocons in the 90’s, coincident to their Republican majority in Congress, telling them all what they wanted to hear.
Democrats being all soft-spoken and nuanced like that. Except in their loud, party-wide, warmongering public rhetoric, apparently.
That same moonbat had led off his argument stating that a great majority of Americans want to abandon the Iraq effort outright in the 00’s as evidenced by the Democrat Congress currently downtalking the liberation of Iraq. With loud, party-wide, defeat-mongering public rhetoric, apparently.
So, is timmyb a moonbat? Because the resemblance is striking.
I believe the solution is for Ds to use any and all negative indicators in Iraq as political levers at home, and for Rs to use any and all positive indicators in Iraq as political levers at home.
Which, unfortunately, has both sides scurrying for ammo. Whether either side is being incentivized to steer matters so their desired outcome is achieved is an interesting topic.
For an example of Republicans doing what I described above, many on that side were awfully quick on the draw whenever even a rumor of WMD discovery was whiffed. And I include myself in that “many”.
Indeed. So much for “exporting” the Brotherhood’s domestic pressures. Maybe Hosni should have sent Fatah some ammo to prolong the fight. Gah.
Pardon me if I don’t take seriously the condescension of people who have been wrong about Iraq every step of the way. How many conservatives predicted before the invasion that this was going to be an uphill battle all the way? Now you expect me to sit back and listen to you like you are all military geniuses Sorry, I just can’t do it.
Ronaldo:
Pardon me if, when you don’t sit back and listen to anyone here as if they are all military geniuses, I don’t give a flying, bald spotted, buck toothed, New York City sewer rat’s ass.
Be careful, as the door swings both ways…
Yes, Pablo’s got it. Sorry if it wasn’t funny enough to be obvious, or vice versa
I, for one have never claimed to be a military genius.
I will claim that 1980 civilian deaths in May is substantially better than 3014 civilian deaths in February.
I will also claim that stories comparing the quarterly number of deaths without looking at the trends within each quarter are misleading at best.
I will further claim that Gen. Petreaus is closer to being a military genius than Sen. Reid.
But if renaldo disagrees with any of those claims, perhaps he’ll actually put an argument together.
Be careful, as the door swings both ways…
With a name like BJ I guess lots of things swing both ways.
PWND!
ha ha. he’s got you cornered Mr. Texs! ;D
BWAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHA … HAHAHAHAHAHA. WHEW!
Wow wee, ronnie! That was some kind of cutting edge humor. I never heard that one before!
But enough of that noise. GET BACK TO THE NARRATIVEâ„¢! BUSHMCCHIMPYHITLER LIEDBURTON!
Shorter ronaldo: If I can’t get any respect for what amounts to my untreated derangement syndrome by refuting the very reality we stand on, I’ll throw dirt in the air by snarking imaginary intellectual adversaries for things they never said.
And then I’ll get personal and thereby expose the shallowness of my principles—they allowing me to hold that derangement syndrome in the first place—with a pointless shot as I exit.
So as to avoid having to face what I’ve willingly turned myself into.
Maybe you don’t really want to do personal, runaldo.
Having lived in the Middle East here is one thing that I can tell you about Muslims: They will bleed us to death in Iraq. They would rather blow themselves up in car bombs rather than accept a better life if it comes from American hands. Why? Because even in the best of times they don’t get laid and they don’t have Johnny Walker or Burgundy. Do we really want Iraq to be our West Bank and Gaza? Can we afford it?
We would be better off undermining Islam through marketing than attempting a frontal assault.
Okay, which one is ronaldo most like? Heet or alphie?
I’m still waiting to hear about one conservative pundit who predicted that this war was going to be a considerable undertaking.
“Brutal Afghan Winter”
Oh, that was a non-rhetorical question? Well, quite a few folks were saying that initial victory would be easy, but we’d be in Iraq for quite a while cleaning up. I think even President Bush was saying that.
Worst.Idea.Evah.
I don’t know why the msm doesn’t report this either.
On the political side the Iraqi parliament has passed a binding resolution claiming for itself the say in whether the government asks the UN to renew the mandate under which coalition troops remain in Iraq when it comes up for renewal in December. Unless Maliki vetoes the bill – which would lead to even more violence – they essentially are going to ask the UN to lift it’s stamp of legitimacy for the occupation.
They claim they had the votes to do this last year when Maliki undercut them by going to the UN 10 days before they were scheduled to vote.
Sure they haven’t met any of our benchmarks, but at least they are grasping the reins of democracy and passing one of the few bills they can all agree on.
And democracy is what this was all about in the first place right?
markg8;
Source please?
Thanking you in advance.
wait, I thought we didn’t have any benchmarks.
um, what about the ones that live in the United States and don’t blow themselves up? They just haven’t had enough time yet? or they aren’t real muslims?
Never mind markg8, I found it.
A google search turns up the story at these bastions of unbiased reporting:
1) Alternet
2) Truthout
3) democraticunderground
4) Robert Dreyfus
5) Daily Kos
6) Arab American News
Etc. Etc. Ad nauseum
Here’s the first couple of paragraphs. Sense a point of view here? (Emphasis mine)
The quoting of the al Sadr block guy as the definitive, authoritative voice is expecially amusing.
markg8’s been gone for a while but he doesn’t cover himself with glory with this gambit. Better luck next time.
ronaldo, that’s been the plan from the very beginning. I read it in my Alpha Bits back in ‘99.
Written by Raed Jarrar who you may remember as the Raed in “Where is Raed” from Salam Pax’s blog.
Yeah you wouldn’t want to quote Iraqis who form one of the most important voting blocks in Maliki’s coalition or anything BJ because they might be anti-American.
Lemme see if I can find it at Newsmax for ya. LOL.
Here’s al Jazeera’s take on it with quotes from some of your D’AWA and SIIC favorites:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D40BB67B-8696-4EF8-BEFE-F4B029DEF4A5.htm
Now tell me, why can’t we find this story at any major media outlet in this country? Seems to me it’s important. Afterall quoting President Bush 5/24/07:
“We are there at the invitation of the Iraqi government. This is a sovereign nation. Twelve
million people went to the polls to approve a
constitution. It’s their government’s choice. If they were to say, leave, we would leave.”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070524.html
Absolutely a fair thing for them to do, IMO, if they’re actually a sovereign government. That kind of power probably belongs to the parliament, although I’d have to read their constitution to know for sure.
But it doesn’t mean they’re going to ask us to leave, just that Maliki can’t exercise control all by his lonesome.
Yea mark!
I’m sure you read that news peace written by a freewheeling peacenik/anti Bush organization like alternet and didn’t see any bias in it at all. Fer cryin’ out loud in the first paragraph they say “out-of-control executive branch,” when talking about an Iraqi parliamentary vote. Nope, no bias there, move along people.
The tone of the piece practically guarantees that only the loopy leftie sites would pick it up. And, please, with the American Friends Service Committee.
Al Jazeera as a source? BWAAA HAHAHAHAHA! Pure comedy gold.
The real irony is that we get bludgeoned on a regular basis about Iraq falling under the spell of that thug al Sadr (just back from hiding his brown ass in Iran.) BTW: the biggest block of Shiite lawmakers in Iraq is controlled by Sistani, not the screaming thug.
That having been said, if the duly elected government wants us to leave and votes that way, legally? See ya! They haven’t done that, you’ll notice. They are simply establishing the parliament’s authority to do so, possibly in six months. That having been said this story is no bigger than the 60% drop in casualties from Februaru to May of this year. Neither one got picked up by the MSM (except for USA Today.)
What else you got, big boy?
Lemme see if I can find it in The Nation for ya. LOL!
Nope, not there either. Damned liberal rags.
War, occupation, civil conflict, insurgence, military action, rebellion, national rehab, factional conflict, internal struggle, the ouster of a madman, or a year and precisely six days without proper table linens, runaldo?
Because if you’re going to trot out that bullshit after a three week campaign that obliterated the Iraqi military complex with a relative handful of ground-based troops and equipment, you’re going to have to get a little more specific.
That completed, kindly scroll back a page or two and tell it to the godamn UN. Because ever since, I think it was, the War of 1812, they’ve been handing out these convenient little tearsheets generals check their watch against, and…
And to markg8, since timmah ran off, maybe you can explain—since prescence is that most valued of all military virtues—just how it’s going to turn out if/when Dubya finally says, you know what? Fuck you leftists and your sack of shit congresscritter liars, and fires up the transports to bring it all back home.
For the troops, naturally, they clamoring for his head on a plate for the last half-decade.
You really gotta wonder when the sheer internal pressure finally splits these leftist’s heads open from the inside.
The mother of all Fruedian slips…
BTW mark; I double dare you to search back through this blog to the hundreds of comments I have made and find one time that I quoted Newsmax. Or … you could not waste your time.
Slart: The Nation LOL! Lewt’s check Newsweek and Time and the NYT! Nope, not there either. RIGHT WING TOOLS!!!
As Slart noted earlier, Pres. Bush is on record saying that we had “difficult work to do” and that the “transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time” at the time. And the Admin. didn’t anticipate getting to the minimum force level until Dec. 2006.
As for the parliamentary vote, it’s not even clear that it’s a binding resolution. Which, y’know, might explain why the MSM hasn’t treated it as a big story.
One more think, mark;
From Karl’s (The Lion of Links) link on the Iraqi Parliament:
Yup, that’s some kind of major power bloc there. That must be why the alternet guys elected to quote them and not someone else in that story.
Facts are such inconvenient things, n’est pas?
Let’s see: Bush underestimated the effort. Nope. The surge is failing. Nope. The Iraqi’s hate us. Nope. Democracy won’t work. Nope.
Civilian brown people are
subhumanindefinitely expendable. Nope. It’s killing the economy. Nope. We’re imperialists. Nope. We’re violating national sovereignty. Nope.We’re violating national sovereignty where only murderous factional conflict could be controlled with utter tyranny. Nope. Hussein had no means to harm anyone. Nope.
The surge hasn’t begun. Nope. The surge is failing. Nope. The surge has begin but the numbers don’t prove it. Nope. The military wants out. Nope.
The Democrats only supported the war because they were duped. Nope. The Democrats supported the war because the Republicans made them. Nope. The American people made them. Nope. Their constituents made them. Nope, nobody here but us chickens.
Rethuglicans are chickenhawks. Nope. Republicans are warmongers. Nope. Iraquis are idiots, destined to subservience to the Religion of Peace. Nope. Because, naturally, The Religion of Peace is peaceful. Nope.
So what the FUCK is it with the American Left, anyway?
I don’t know why you guys are laughing. Putting another 28,500 US troops into Iraq brings us up to about where we were at the elections in 2005. Wasn’t sustainable then, isn’t sustainable now. Whack-a-mole has succeeded somewhat in shifting violence to other provinces, which is sure to make another segment of formerly complacent Iraqis despise the war and those who pushed the mayhem into their towns. Chances are they aren’t going to blame Iraqis for that.
Many Republican senators and House reps said last winter that the surge was Bush’s last chance. They know if the benchmarks everybody knows the Shiites have no intention of passing aren’t passed this summer the jig’s up. Repubs know they will have to vote to end the occupation in the fall or update their resumes because they’re going home with Bush in 2009. Hell Ray LaHood of Illinois has already stopped his reelection fundraising in hopes Bradley University will hire him as dean.
Bush forced the Dems to pass out the dixie cups for the poison kool aid he’s pouring to the Republican party and you guys think that’s funny. All while murdering the US Army in Iraq. Doesn’t sound like a laughing matter to me but then I’m sane.
President Bush again:
No, they blame Al Qaeda for it and are forming groups allied with the US to fight them, on the model of the Anbar Salvation Council.
…though it’s no surprise that markg8 would assume the US would be blamed the way he does.
BJ you obviously don’t recall it was Sadr’s block’s support that pushed Maliki over the top in forming a government and if they left it would also bring down his government. The parliament passed a non binding resolution on the same matter about two weeks before this one.
One Kurd saying on record to Iraqslogger (which is composed mainly of Iraqi McClatchy reporters, a news org you guys would normally be loathe to quote) “that the vote would be regarded as a non-binding petition rather than a law that would require withdrawal” does not change the facts at all. As I and Raed said in his article this res gives the parliament the power to say to the UN “we don’t want them here anymore” in December. Maliki could veto it but you know what would happen if he did.
There were 144 votes cast, barely enough for a quorum. It passed 85-49. Now maybe enough SIIC, D’AWA and Kurdish members might make it back from their summer vacation in Tehren, Damascus, London or wherever they go when GIs and marines are dying in 130F heat for their right to drink Mai Tais on a veranda somewhere in time to pass some legislation that will make it sound worthwhile to the American public to waste a few thousand more American lives and hundreds of billions more US taxpayer dollars on this fiasco. But the liklihood of that happening are about as good as Ron Paul winning the Republican nomination for president.
And now after reading JHoward’s post I bid you adieu. I can get better delusional crap almost anywhere else.
So you can’t explainâ€â€since prescence is that most valued of all military virtuesâ€â€just how it’s going to turn out if/when Dubya finally says screw it? That’s interesting, because apparently quite a few more rational, less delusional folks can…
OHNOES!!!
They’ve got their process, and when they get to issuing the invitation to go away and we refuse to do it, then you’ve got something to talk about. Until then, not so much.
Welcome to Iraq.
No, actually, I don’t. Given that the Mahdi Army has virtually abandoned the battlespace, and given that Maliki is a Sadr stooge, and given that the Sadrites have taken yet another vacation from Parliament, I don’t know what would happen.
Please explain.
markg8 retreated before threatening to shatter my skull.
Baby steps.
Why I don’t believe markg8 really wants to discuss things.
Crickets.
(I’ll take marko-grr8, timmah!, and runaldo a little more seriously when they explain how to reduce inner city crime by sending the cops home on leaves.
Oh, and because most of the victims are black.)
Having lived in the Middle East for over 20 years, here is one thing I can tell you about margate-
He is an ignorant, bigoted, boorish oaf of the type that gets Americans a bad name for the shallow stupidity of their ‘insights’ and the leaden incompetence of their attempts at wit.
Fortunately he is not representative of the majority of Americans abroad.
Naturally, when I say margate I mean ronaldo.
Enjoy your delusions and your marginalized status. As you and everyone notices you have many fewer compatriots here in dreamland. There’s a reason for that.
How nice of markg8 to tell all the icky people he hates they’re losers. Almost as if he’s hoping if he repeats it often enough they’ll believe it and make it true.
(Oh and I guess adieu means “I’ll slink back in later and make potshots when I think everyone else following this thread has gone elsewhere” in markg8-speak.)
Yes, apparently that “bad pennies turning back up” remark was a bit of projection.
I’ll get you, my pretty. You and your little dog, too.
Right. Because the only true religion is global homogenization, no matter the cost in any currency you care to weigh it in whatsoever. But don’t make you explain why because you just feel it.
Close? Good luck on that majority-lemming thing, though.
That kind of concise foreign policy analysis is why I come to PW. Although markg8 doesn’t seem to agree:
Goddam uppity sand-niggers.
Translation, anyone?
furriskey: Translation for you…
All of you are either deluded or insane due to the fact that you will not simply accept The Narrativeâ„¢ that every policy, foreign or domestic, put forth by you despicable Bush Pimps has been nothing less than a complete and abject failure. This is something that only sane, thinking people know. Because you refuse to follow The Narrativeâ„¢ I am completely righteous to declare all of you insignificant, marginalized and, oh yea, WORTHY OF HAVING YOUR FUCKING SKULLS SHATTERED LIKE FINE CHINA THROWN IN A FIREPLACE!
Glad I could be of service.
Having lived in the Middle East here is one thing that I can tell you about Muslims: They will bleed us to death in Iraq. They would rather blow themselves up in car bombs rather than accept a better life if it comes from American hands.
Wanna bet they run out of volunteers before we run out of bullets?
Why? Because even in the best of times they don’t get laid and they don’t have Johnny Walker or Burgundy.
Whos fault is that?
Do we really want Iraq to be our West Bank and Gaza? Can we afford it?
Too late. Already there. Maybe you can blame that on Bush too.
We would be better off undermining Islam through marketing than attempting a frontal assault.
What you subsidize, you get more of
Posted by ronaldo
Thanks for playing. We have some great parting gifts.
Ta, BJ.
Insightful fellow, isn’t he?
furriskey;
markg8: less about the nuance, more about the declarative!
But I could just be delusional or insane…
JHoward, if you’re still sober and around: to quote bloggers: I am not your monkey. To quote myself, use the site’s search engine, because I have mentioned at least twice a realistic solution to the Iraqi problem. Lazy and drunk is no way to comment, Howie
Apparently neither is egotistical and unreformed, but I still love you, timmah! Whatever that was.
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