Presidential wannabe John Edwards wants YOU to help “reclaim patriotism”. And just how do you do that? Well, the answer might seem counterintuitive to those of us in whichever of the two Americas it is where protesting the war on Memorial Day seems a bit loathsome and opportunistic.
In the other America, though, here’s how you can reclaim patriotism from people who actually support the troops rather than condescend to them, support the Iraqi people rather than agitate for our country to abandon and betray them, and support the Commander in Chief and General Petraeus rather than work tirelessly to undermine US foreign policy for political gains—and doing so based on a husk of lies and collective amnesia that fancies itself a glittering beacon of freedom (approximately 24,000 sq. ft worth, if I’m remembering correctly…)!
10 Things You Can Do Over Memorial Weekend to Support the Troops and End the War
Throughout our history, military men and women and their families have sacrificed for America. The troops in Iraq and their families continue to sacrifice today. So this Memorial Day Weekend, John Edwards is asking the American people to give some part of their weekend in returnâ€â€to honor and remember all those who have gone before in service to our country, and to let our government know we want to honor our troops by ending the war and bringing them home.
Translation: We want to honor our troops by insuring that history views them as failures. Which is cool, because at least we’ll feel good about ourselves— and let’s face it: we could give two shits about those ridiculous jarheads.
This Memorial Day weekend, John Edwards is asking that we all take responsibility for the country we love and the brave men and women who protect us. As citizens, let’s volunteer in support of our troops, and offer our service to honor theirs. As Americans, let’s take a moment to join in prayer for our troops. And as patriots, let’s gather together this weekend and make our voices heard. It’s up to us. If we are loud enough, and clear enough, we can end this war. Because it really is possible to stop a president who believes he can do no wrongâ€â€it just takes people with the courage to do what’s right.
Do what’s right, eh? Here’s a reminder, Mr Edwards, in case you’re actually beginning to believe your own lies:
MATTHEWS: Let me ask but the war, because I know these are all students and a lot of guys the age of these students are fighting over there and cleaning up over there, and they’re doing the occupation.
Were we right to go to this war alone, basically without the Europeans behind us? Was that something we had to do?
EDWARDS: I think that we were right to go. I think we were right to go to the United Nations. I think we couldn’t let those who could veto in the Security Council hold us hostage.
And I think Saddam Hussein, being gone is good. Good for the American people, good for the security of that region of the world, and good for the Iraqi people.
MATTHEWS: If you think the decision, which was made by the president, when basically he saw the French weren’t with us and the Germans and the Russians weren’t with us, was he right to say, “We’re going anyway�
EDWARDS: I stand behind my support of that, yes.
MATTHEWS: You believe in that?
EDWARDS: Yes.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about-Since you did support the resolution and you did support that ultimate solution to go into combat and to take over that government and occupy that country. Do you think that you, as a United States Senator, got the straight story from the Bush administration on this war? On the need for the war? Did you get the straight story?
EDWARDS: Well, the first thing I should say is I take responsibility for my vote. Period. And I did what I did based upon a belief, Chris, that Saddam Hussein’s potential for getting nuclear capability was what created the threat. That was always the focus of my concern. Still is the focus of my concern.
So did I get misled? No. I didn’t get misled.
MATTHEWS: Did you get an honest reading on the intelligence?
EDWRADS: But now we’re getting to the second part of your question.
I think we have to get to the bottom of this. I think there’s clear inconsistency between what’s been found in Iraq and what we were told.
And as you know, I serve on the Senate Intelligence Committee. So it wasn’t just the Bush administration. I sat in meeting after meeting after meeting where we were told about the presence of weapons of mass destruction. There is clearly a disconnect between what we were told and what, in fact, we found there.
MATTHEWS: If you knew last October when you had to cast an aye or nay vote for this war, that we would be unable to find weapons of mass destruction after all these months there, would you still have supported the war?
EDWARDS: It wouldn’t change my views. I said before, I think that the threat here was a unique threat. It was Saddam Hussein, the potential for Saddam getting nuclear weapons, given his history and the fact that he started the war before.
MATTHEWS: Do you feel now that you have evidence in your hands that he was on the verge of getting nuclear weapons?
EDWARDS: No, I wouldn’t go that far.
MATTHES: What would you say?
EDWARDS: What I would say is there’s a decade long pattern of an effort to get nuclear capability, from the former Soviet Union, trying to get access to scientists…
MATTHEWS: What about Africa?
EDWARDS: … trying to get-No. I don’t think so. At least not from the evidence.
MATTHEWS: Were you misled by the president in the State of the Union address on the argument that Saddam Hussein was trying get uranium from Niger?
EDWARDS: I guess the answer to that is no.
I did not put a lot of stock in that.
MATTHEWS: But you didn’t believe-But you weren’t misled?
EDWARDS: No, I was not misled because I didn’t put a lot of stock in to it begin with.
As I said before, I think what happened here is, for over a decade, there is strong, powerful evidence, which I still believe is true, that Saddam Hussein had been trying to get nuclear capability. Either from North Korea, from the former Soviet Union, getting access to scientists, trying to get access to raw fissile material. I don’t-that I don’t have any question about.
MATTHEWS: The United States has had a long history of nonintervention, of basically taking the “don’t tread on me and if you don’t we’ll leave you alone.†We broke with that tradition for Iraq. What is your standard for breaking with tradition of nonintervention?
EDWARDS: When somebody like Saddam Hussein presents a direct threat to the security of the American people and, in this case, the security of a region of the world that I think is critical.
(thanks to Rightwinged)
What kind of cynical political beast would profess to all that—noting a direct threat, recognizing a Security Council that was acting out of its own financial interests, claiming that his own reading of the intelligence led him to believe Iraq that was attempting to acquire nuclear weapons, and saying categorically that no, he wasn’t misled in his vote to go to war—and then call for us to pull out, leaving the Iraqi people hanging out to dry, and virtually insuring that the middle east becomes further destabilized?
Or, to put it more bluntly, how craven and ego-driven does one have to be to sell out two entire countries for the remote opportunity he might pick off a few primary victories by pandering to the anti-war base and maybe secure himself a vice presidential nod?
And yes, that was rhetorical.
What else does Edwards want you to do for Memorial Day weekend in order to “reclaim patriotism” from actual patriots? Glad you asked:
Get local, get active, and get outdoors. Walk the streets of your neighborhood. Get everyone you know to sign a petition to your local government bodyâ€â€for instance, your town or city council or neighborhood associationâ€â€to pass a resolution requesting that Congress use its funding authority to support our troops and end the war. Bring the petition to the next meeting. […]
Send our troops a taste of home. Go shopping with your kids, your friends, your neighbors, and buy a whole bunch of stuff that would make a soldier happy to receive (check for restrictions). Then go through a site like Anysoldier.com, OpGratitude.com, or TroopCarePackage.com to send your package to a soldier in Iraq. Take photos and tell us about it.
Gather in public. On Memorial Day, get your friends, kids, co-workers, neighbors, aunts, uncles, grandfathers, grandmothers, and anyone and everyone you know together to publicly support the troops and end the war. Be sure to check with your local authority for any permits you need for public gatherings. Contact local media to publicize your event. Before you get started, please take a moment of silence to honor the fallen. And during your event, make sure you conduct yourself respectfullyâ€â€both for those serving in Iraq and the memory of the brave servicemen and women that Memorial Day honors. Share your plans here.
Pray. Organize a prayer vigil for our troops at your house of worship. Tell us about it.
Make your voice heard in Washington. Call President Bush at (202) 456-1111 or email him at . Call your Representative and U.S. Senator and ask them to use their funding power to support our troops and end the war. Tell us about it.
Get vocal. Buy a bunch of poster-board and markers. At a picnic or with family and friends, make signs that say “SUPPORT THE TROOPS – END THE WAR.†Bring them to your local Memorial Day parade. Then take a digital photo of yourself and your family or friends holding up the poster and tell us about it. We’ll include it in a “Democracy Photo Album†on our site.
Greet a vet. Before Memorial Day Weekend gets started, get in touch with the Yellow Ribbon Fund and volunteer to provide welcome-back services and mentorships to injured soldiers returning home. Tell us about it.
Say thank you. Send a thank-you note to our troops through organizations like Let’s Say Thanks, A Million Thanks, or Operation Care Packages. Better yet – gather folks together to write thank-you notes at a picnic. Tell us about it.
Help an injured vet. Before Memorial Day Weekend gets underway, contact your local VA Hospital and learn how you can volunteer. Tell us about it.
Light up the night. Get your friends and family together and organize a Memorial Day candlelight vigil to support our troops and end the war. Share your plans here
In other words, turn Memorial Day weekend into a sixties-style war protest, publicize it, photograph it, pat yourself on the back for presuming to speak for soldiers whom you don’t speak for, then have a couple of hot dogs and some cole slaw before emailing out links to John Edwards website, where you can point you pals to the photo of you essentially spitting in the face of the men and women fighting in Iraq.
Of course, it’s a loving spit. Because you’ve prayed for them. And presumed to dictate their mission. For their own good. Because you care so much and all.
Funny how Edwards didn’t believe any of this nonsense when he was last running for President, isn’t it? But then, everybody’s got to find his niche. And Edwards and his wife (incidentally, I wonder if she’ll say a prayer for the Republican across the street who so frightens her and brings down her property values with his icky guns and his poor landscaping choices) have chosen as their niche the very anti-war “progressive” base that is willing to ignore all that came before just so long as “their candidate” is saying and doing the things they demand he say and do now.
And Edwards is “their” candidate (hi, Amanda!), inasmuch as they own his ass. He is, to put it frankly, a political whore. And those who support him are every bit as morally bankrupt as he is.
Now if you’ll excuse me for a bit, I need to go bathe.
(h/t CJ Burch)
Yeah, but he’s a silky-headed ho.
When I calm down a bit, I might have to pen a little missive for Mr. Edwards.
Here is the executive summary:
Not in My Name, you slimeball.
I’m spitting mad. Seriously. Anyway, my wife and kid are coming home today, so I have some things I need to take care of.
I’ll pop in from time to time, but if anybody wants to throw up a couple guest posts today, feel free.
I can’t wait for one of these loons to ring my doorbell with a petition!
I’m loading up rock salt now…
It’s the return of the bunnies!
BECAUSE OF THE THEOCRACY!!!
I tell you what, I puke on some posterboard and mail it to Edwards personally, maybe then he’ll know how this vet feels about his fng patriotism. Piece of crap……
Well put, Major John, as always.
Not in my name.
And not in my kids’ names. They don’t want his frigging care packages, either.
Did anybody ever point out to the Silky Headed Ho (thanks, Dan!) that you don’t end wars? You either win them or lose them.
I’s just occurred to me that as a member of the evil, despised “landowner” class, I can yell “Get the hell offn’ mah property, ya damn dirty hippie!” as I let loose with the rock salt.
My day is made.
That’s really insulting to whores, comparing them to Edwards.
You’re right. He’s more of a bint.
Considering the guy did this shit for a living as an ambulance-chasing heartstring-pulling trial lawyer, we shouldn’t be surprised by this.
I don’t think even the Democrats are stupid enough to nominate the Silky Pony.
After reading John-girl’s call to (dis)arms, I do want to throw up, but not like that.
Dear Mr. Edwards,
I support your efforts in running for President by insisting that you go home now.
MK
hm…
I was just thinking of organizing a Support Trees Movement for Arbor Day. First of all, take a minute and thank those guys in the orange vests for supporting trees by picking up the trash. Help your neighbor rake up and recycle those leaves. Say a prayer for the brave platform sitting and 16 penny nail driving activists who are protecting our forests. Carefully, carefully, light a candle to remember those who have gone before, giving their all for conifers everywhere!
Then join us in a clearing in Brazil for the a celebration hardwood bonfire so big that the guys on the space station will have to wear shades.
E-Mail us pictures!
Edwards has zero chance of winning and I question his influence even with the whacky anti-war left who seem to have totally run out of steam even with protests.
Would it be inappropriate to e-mail a picture of me and my friends stomping an anti-war cock-muncher at one of their rallies?
This much is certain: No matter how much he may bow and scrape to them, the rabid pro-capitulation camp will never truly support Breck Girl. After all, deep down he’s just another patriarchal Christianist godbag. They just like yanking on the puppet’s strings and watching him dance.
It pleases them.
Looks like Fred Phelps may have more influence than the Dems let on, this one is straight out of his playbook.
Because nothing says “I support the troops” more than reminding them they’re fighting for a lie and oppressing a People of Color to line the pockets of hook-nosed, Big Oil neo-cons. Fuck, I can hear the fifes and drums playing now.
Christ on a cracker, could this slimy snake be any more duplicitous?
A distraught woman queries her doctor, “Can a woman get pregnant from anal sex?”
The MD replies, “Of course, where do you think tort lawyers come from?”
He could not be more duplicitous, but he could be more successful.
I know of no greater testament to the basic judgment and decency of the American people than their general disinterest in the political fictions that have been tossed at them in the last six years.
Seriously, I feel compelled to paint with a broad brush. Doesn’t this sort of whorish behavior reflect his roots a s a personal injury tort lawyer? What sort of background does he have that seperates him as a presidential hopeful? It looks as though he cut and pasted the bolded sentiments from DU or Code Pink. Whatever works, regardless of the setting and the appropriatness.
I think campaigning with Jon Cary has irretrievably corrupted his mellow. what’s next, showing up at soldier’s funerals with “messages of support?” GTFOOH! Silky Pony hasn’t figured out the majority of Democrats don’t support this extreme a position, never mind the rest of the country.
As silly as Edwards’ propaganda is, it will convince only one group in America. That’s the lapdog media. CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, CNN and the New York Times will treat this drivel as the very essence of patriotism.
When the most whorishly anti-war Dem does not get the nomination, that helps, yes?
Sorry guys…. I just don’t seen how leaving Iraq, minus Hussein, & with a government friendly to the US is ‘capitulating’. esp inasmuch as any jihadist rivals to said government don’t stand a snowballs chance chance of “taking over”, & there’s no evidence the US presence is making the country more stable and terrorist-free.
Ok, you’re now free to call me a traitor, a pussy, etc.
Does he even know what Memorial Day is for?
Did you guys see when Edwards was grilled on what he would actually, specifically do? He doesn’t seem to know much beyond:
1) There’s a country called Iraq in the Mideast.
2) We have troops there.
3) This is bad.
Hillary, by contrast, really seem to understand the situation, and concedes the reality that we can’t just pick up and leave without serious consequences.
So we can assume that you will be out and visible on Memorial Day holding posters that Support our Troops by Ending the War? You’re OK with that? Because, in case you haven’t noticed, the post was less about Iraq War policy and more about the appropriatness of staging essentially political demonstrations on a holiday that has traditionally been contemplative and reflective about those who have given their lives in service.
Do you have an opinion on that or is it just about the evil Bushwar?
Take your time…
& there’s no evidence the US presence is making the country more stable and terrorist-free.
Ah, the reality-based community weighs in again.
Apparently they ever never noticed or have forgotten that Al Qaeda raises its flag anywhere in Sunni Iraq we don’t beat them down.
Sheesh, you’d think they never even heard of Fallujah or Ramadi.
It’s almost like archeology, digging down through layers of historical revisionism that have accumulated over the years in order to find trace evidence of the real pre-war consensus on Iraq.
truth32
TallDave, aren’t there serious consequences to staying in Iraq indefinitely? A lot of people (including people like myself who recognized the danger posed by the Hussein regime and who supported his ouster) don’t feel as if the US is accomplishing its more recent, far broader purpose of pacifying Iraq. Whereas its original purpose (removing Hussein and the threat posed by his government) was accomplished long ago.
Am I a traitor? Are these opinions disrespectful of the military? Is it possible to view Iraq and its welfare as a political and not a military problem without considering this as an affront to our armed forces?
nope, none at all.
no
that, or willfully ignorant, take your pick
well, if you can explain to me how the political process is going to function without security being enforced, possibly.
BJTex, I don’t think the war belongs to Bush. I think the war that many in the US supported ended with Hussein’s execution, and what’s taking place now in Iraq is something else (in my opinion, a waste of money and manpower, with no clearly defined objective.)
Apparently they ever never noticed or have forgotten that Al Qaeda raises its flag anywhere in Sunni Iraq we don’t beat them down.
and right now they’re raising their flag in various caves in Pakistan and Afghanistan and Montreal. They’re no more likely to take over those governments than they are Iraq. Actually, in Afghanistan they’re considerably more likely, and shouldnt we be redoubling our efforts there rather than wasting our resources on Iraq?
What about staying in Afghanistan indefinitely? Or Germany? Or South Korea? Or the Balkans? Or any number of places where we have troops stationed? Aren’t there serious consequences to staying in those places indefinitely?
The answer is of course, “yes” to all those. So why did Silky Pony single out Iraq?
Again, not the point of the post. I know that you are on the fall line with all of this dissent and patriotism and political vs military blah, blah, blah but I’d still like you to answer the question above before we get all huffy about Iraq War strategy.
You are about to set a new record for irrelevence and subject changing. Do you have an opinion about Edwards?
Are you OK with the concept of a Presidential candidate using a solemn national holiday to promote a particular political position?
It’s a pretty simple question.
sorry, BJTexs, I’ll behave myself. ;D
still waiting for RTO to get home, will probably be well after Memorial Day.
What resources are in Iraq that should be in Afghanistan? How would those resources be used in Afghanistan? How would those resources be supported in Afghanistan? What impact on the local political scene would additional US forces have?
What would the effect be in Iraq of shifting US forces out?
What would the effect worldwide be in shifting US forces out of Iraq?
Here’s an idea: a sign that says “Support Our Troops—End the War—Nuke Tehran”.
Apparently they ever never noticed or have forgotten that Al Qaeda raises its flag anywhere in Sunni Iraq we don’t beat them down.
Hi maggie. Unfortunately I don’t think your links show that security is being enforced. I’ve seen no evidence that Iraq’s violent death rate is declining, and quite a bit that it’s ticking higher. If you have some hard data demonstrating that terrorist activity is declining nationwide in Iraq, that would be very interesting to me. But personally I don’t see how Marines can be expected to win a campaign of harassment (where they are largely bystanders—not even targets.) I also don’t think that harassment by truck bomb and suicide attack poses an ontological threat to Iraq’s government, and that should be our first concern. Not ridding Iraq of psychotic imbeciles. Thats impossible, and a waste of time.
You’re OK with that?
With supporting thew withdrawal of troops from Iraq? Sure. Or with pre-empting attacks on my patriotism because I believe as much? Yes, that too.
“They stand up, we stand down.”
I can’t figure out how this statement is that hard to fathom, AEinNY. It’s only the doltishness of the phrase’s speaker that muddies it up, huh?
So why did Silky Pony single out Iraq?
because we have ten times as many troops there than in afghanistan. Because the mission there is less clearly defined than it was before the war, that it seems to be yielding little results,& because a solid majority of Iraqis disapprove of our presence there & want us to leave.
Are you OK with the concept of a Presidential candidate using a solemn national holiday to promote a particular political position?
Sure. Particularly since every political figure has done so on every national holiday since the dawn of time.
AE
The issue isn’t whether the Iraqi government will eventually be able to stand up to AQ and/or the sectarian fighting–it’s that they need a trained and competent army and police force. Our continued presence is two-fold–root out the insurgents to buy time, and train the army and police to be effective. Neither is a simple operation, and requires time–not just a few years. And time is the one thing the MSM, Democrats, and others don’t want to give.
We’re too damn used to solving problems in a one-hour TV drama. We no longer have the patience to see things through to the end. Vietnam was lost to some of the same impatience–depressing news as reported by the media, with only elements of the whole story being represented. Iraq seems to be suffering from the same effect–sensationalist bad news without the balanced reporting of the successes.
The surge is working–as reported by the on-scene bloggers and others who are not handicapped by their own biases. The troops in the field believe in their mission, and are pissed at the MSM. I work daily with these folks, getting the latest capabilities to the field, adjusting tactics to meet the threat as it changes.
We need time!
“They stand up, we stand down.â€Â
For the life of me I don’t see what this means in practical terms. Is there any agency in Iraq capable of ridding the country of whackjobs with high explosives? It’s whackjob central. It’s swamp all the way down. The US has no responsibility to turn Iraq into Disneyland. Its DOES have a responsibility to be clear with the people whose money it’s spending (mine and yours). “Win. That’s the strategy” isn’t clear. It’s extremely vague.
Go ahead and read this wonderful post and hum these words while you’re at it (I know I heard them)
That I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘ Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.
And I’m proud to be and American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘ Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.
You guys seem a bit agitated. What Mr. Edwards said was pretty thin gruel as far and imflamatory rhetoric is concerned. Maybe you guys think it’s your job to decide who is and who is not patriotic? I know that as supporters of this war and enablers of the incompetent bush administration, you must see yourselves as such. But what Mr. Edwards says is a lot less direct and to the point than what the retired generals who appeared in a recent television add had to say. Are those retired generals patriotic? Do they not care about the troops? Maybe it’s your guy who is, well, as someone else said…
“put it frankly, a political whore. And those who support him are every bit as morally bankrupt as he is.”
This is the sort of thing that made my entire family ditch the Democratic party. No sense of honor or propriety. No common sense–not even the most basic of social skills. Other examples include Code Pink’s hospital protests, and turning the Coretta King and Paul Wellstone services into political pep rallies.
All decent people know that hospitals and memorial services are out of bounds. I emailed Sen. Edwards to inform of this.
They normally try to maintain some level of respect for the men to whom the day is dedicated. That you see no problem with the matter at hand speaks volumes about your own character.
We’re not talking about foreign policy or competence here, guys (there’s an infinite number of other threads for that). We’re talking about a man who wants to be President, pissing on the graves of our war dead for the sake of scoring a few cheap political points.
That shows a real lack of class, and it has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with Bush, no matter how many times you try to conflate the issues.
Would it kill you to write, “I agree with Edwards on a lot of issues, but I think that using Memorial Day to push this stunt is inappropriate?”
I remember when the Democrats bashed the Bush administration for “politicizing the war on terror” and the Bush administration said “oh, no we’re not”. All the Bush administration was doing was pointing out that the Democrats didn’t want to win in Iraq. Remember that?
Iraq is more important than Afghanistan because of the oil profits that would be redirected to jihad.
Political solutions in Iraq (and war is one type of political solution) of the peaceful type are still in need of aggressive security protection. Protection requires both offensive and defensive military operations.
There are several provinces where al Qaeda attacks every project underway.
Political solution people are murdered and intimidated.
What does your side propose we do in those locations?
Leave for Okinawa?
I have to admit that I wasn’t able to wade through the whole post, so my comment may make no sense to those who have. Nevertheless, I am going to comment anyway.
It is NOT unpatriotic to protest a war that you truly believe is wrong. It is NOT unpatriotic to protest the President who led us into the war that you believe is wrong.
Personally, I was and am in favor of this war and our presence in Iraq and Afganistan. However, I rececognize that there are reasonable, intelligent people who love this country and disagree with my view.
As Professor Reynolds at Instapundit likes to say “a pack not a herd” we shouldn’t just blindly do what the government tells us is the best thing.
You can love a family member and still disagree with their life choices. So too can you love your country while disagreeing with the choices our elected officials have made.
Protesting and making your voice heard is one of the most patriotic of activities which is why the right to do so is the FIRST Amendment.
History teaches us that all generalizations are wrong. Including that one.
“It’s swamp all the way down”!?! That’s not a valid observation that can be defended. How many elections are held in swamps? How many constitutions are written in swamps? How many women vote or go to school for the first time in swamps? That’s a pathetic sneer, not empirical evidence.
You also ignored the continued presence of US forces in the Balkans. This is clearly defined? We’ve been there how long? We’re to remain for how long? And the pay off to this is what? Besides Albanians planning on an Edwards-style Memorial Day celebration at the gates of Ft. Dix?
I’ve heard this”Husseins’s dead so let’s declare victory and hope that there’s no Iraqi boat people” crap before. Declare victory and the time of the last flight out of the Balkans, S. Korea and the Bundesrepublik and we’ll talk.
<i?>Would it kill you to write, “I agree with Edwards on a lot of issues, but I think that using Memorial Day to push this stunt is inappropriate?</i>
Yes, it would kill me, because I agree with him on practically nothing, and I think this isn’t much of a stunt, as political stunts go (plus if you think GWB is above offensive political stunts you’re kidding yourself.)
Iraq is more important than Afghanistan because of the oil profits that would be redirected to jihad.
Oil profits don’t drive jihad or even empower it much. If 9/11 taught us anything it’s that terrorism is cheap.
“Translation: We want to honor our troops by insuring that history views them as failures.”
History isn’t going to view the troops as failures. It’s going to view Bush, the Republicans, and enablers like you as failures. That’s if you’re lucky. Bathe all you want, you can’t wash that away.
Actually our job is to decide who’s an asshole with an attitude who isn’t all that familiar with the regulars here. Thanks for making our job that much easier.
I particularly enjoyed Bush’s Christmas 2005 address to the nation in which he implored all America’s citizens to give the gift of Halliburton stocks to their loved ones. It just edged out his Easter address of 2003 in which he declared that Jesus died for the sins of Rightwingers only. Lefties are still destined for eternal damnation.
Actually, I thought Edwards was refreshingly candid in the Matthews interview. I presume it is the new Nutroots version of Edwards who you find so direct and to the point.
How many elections are held in swamps?
Quite a few! Name a swamp, I’ll show you an election.
This is clearly defined?
No, and the US presence is 1/20th the size of that in Iraq. The amount of tax money spent there doesnt even compare. So yes, its a problem, but a far smaller one.
after skimming this brief history of Memorial day, I’m thinking the better thing for Edwards to suggest is visiting a National Cemetary and decorating graves with some homemade, “Died for a Lie” signs.
History teaches us that all generalizations are wrong.
Say what? All of them?
the US presence is 1/20th the size of that in Iraq
And perhaps not so coincidentally, Al-Qaeda is probably twenty times more populous in Iraq than Afghanistan. That’s because Saddam opened the gates to let them in once the US Military booted them from Afghanistan.
This I realize goes against the common moonbat wisdom that Saddam Hussein had nothing -NEVEREVEREVERNEVER!!- to do with Islamic terrorist groups, but sometimes a duck is simply a duck.
Ae in NY, you said earlier in the thread that you were behind the initial removal of Saddam, but you are now against us staying to help them on their feet?
Are you sure you realize the ramifications of us leaving both in Iraq and elsehwere? Because that wouldn’t jive with your previous opnions on Iraq pre-invasion.
“Our nation mourns the loss of our men and women in uniform; we will honor them by completing the mission for which they gave their lives—by defeating the terrorists” -GWB, Memorial Day 2006
So “defeating the terrorists”—according to the weird parameters laid forth by this president and is suppporters, is how we have to honor our fighting men and women. Right, that’s not a political position, that’s just OBJECTIVE FACT! Good thing he isnt politicizing the holidays. That would be wrong.
Yeah, look at all the love and respect soldiers returning from Vietnam got.
but you are now against us staying to help them on their feet?
We arent helping them on their feet. Our presence is doing nothing to reduce the level of violence in Iraq. Data suggesting otherwise would be very welcome. Thanks in advance.
? Because that wouldn’t jive with your previous opnions on Iraq pre-invasion.
Says you. I supported the overthrow of Hussein and the removal of WMD threats, not Mission: Iraqi Disneyland.
Al-Qaeda is probably twenty times more populous in Iraq than Afghanistan.
Shouldn’t that be “despite our vastly larger troop presence, there are fewer al qaedas in Iraq?” I dont think some guys in Iraq hopping up and down with AK47s pose much of a threat to the USA. Pissing billions away yearly in a futile effort to kill every last one of them is worse.
TW: time to slowly86 this conversation and go home.
I have to admit I don’t get your point here, AE – so is it ok to give them more money to spend? Or that it doesn’t matter if they have more money to spend, because attacks can be financed cheaply regardless of whether or not they have a much greater stream of revenue?
Are you saying Jihadists, fresh from a vicory in Iraq, will stay put?
<i<>Are you saying Jihadists, fresh from a vicory in Iraq, will stay put?</i>
their “victory” is as spurious as our defeat. Has it escaped you that they’re claiming victory now in afghanistan?
They aren’t running Iraq. They aren’t spending its oil revenue. They aren’t any more likely to follow us back to NYC and blow up the subway system than if we stayed there for 20 more years.
So your answer to me is that jihad has been done cheap before, so oil money wouldn’t have any effect on future jihad funding needs?
I realize Saddam gave the families of Palestinian suicide bombers totally cheap ass payments by our standards and that jihad has been run on a pretty low budget compared to our casualties averse, high tech military.
I do not think it is honest to claim that jihadi’s would not use oil money to buy a little more boom if they had it. Granted, I cannot definitively claim the money wouldn’t be used to retire from jihad and instead for buying lakefront villas in Italy, outfitted with jet skis and supermodels… in fact I wish that’s what they’d do, but it seems a lot more likely that they’d use the oil cash to buy better stuff to blow us up… but you go ahead and believe the truth as you intend to experience it
AE in NY wrote:
Someone isn’t looking very hard. In February, when the “surge” started, 3014 deaths. Last month, 1821 deaths. Possibly fewer this month, on a straight-line projection. But I get the imporession AE doesn’t care much about the brown folks anyway, based on his Mission: Iraqi Disneyland crack. Because if the US pulls out, it’s not like there wouldn’t be a regional war involving Iran and the Saudis, with terror camps galore springing up there, to our eventual detriment. It’s the kind of thinking that helped create WWII out of WWI.
Because NOT ONE DEMOCRAT in Congress voted for the war, right, Ted? Do we have to lay it out for you? Do you really think history will be that kind to Democrats?
Quick, name the Dem Presidential candidates who didn’t vote for the war. No peeking. On has really silky hair.
Oooh! Oooh! I know!
By GOD, Jeff!! You’re the second-coming of Tim Russert.
Geez, is that all it is? Well then, let’s pack up and go home.
“Oil profits don’t drive jihad or even empower it much. If 9/11 taught us anything it’s that terrorism is cheap.”
You just exposed your incredible ignorance on global jihad, AE. Without the petro dollars from the Wahabbi sects in Sunni Arab countries there would be no money for jihad. Even though 9/11 only cost about $600,000, there is much, much more money behind the jihad, and most all of it comes from oil.
As for Edwards, I don’t question his patriotism, only his judgement. Very poor, IMO.
I don’t know, AE, did the 9/11 hijackers jump up and down? I’d be willing to bet they didn’t telegraph their punch quite so obviously. The cost of their actions? There’s a mighty big hole in your city, and some DNA that hallows the ground there… to say nothing of the giant hole they created in the world’s biggest economy. Do you have some evidence to suggest that jumping up and down is a sign of impotence among terrorists?
Strawman alert, too: “kill[ing] every last one of them”??
(Please note that I am NOT saying al Qaeda==Iraq.)
Shouldn’t that be “despite our vastly larger troop presence, there are fewer al qaedas in Iraq?â€Â
No, you didn’t comprehend that last statement very well. There are more al-qaeda in Iraq because we successfully booted most of them out of Afghanistan, and Saddam had always been so nice to Islamic terrorists (he was so generous with the aiding and abetting you see) thus less need for as many troops as in Iraq (as well as several other factors such as Iraq and Afghanistan being about as different from each other as Cuba and Canada, but I digress).
You wanted a blown-up Iraq minus Saddam and then everyone comes home. I might not necessarily disagree that this would have cost less in US lives and dollars in the short term, but those of us thinking beyond next week realize that we are doing this for the LONG term, so that we don’t have to do this AGAIN.
The amount of tax money spent there doesnt even compare. So yes, its a problem, but a far smaller one.
Posted by AE in NY
So yours is a concern about degree, not substance? Fine. One more thing. Are you a general?
AE, I’ll give you that you do have a point. If our goal was “eliminate Saddam’s regime” then we’ve won and can go home. You also state that you’re sure that the fighting will die down if we leave.
Are you then willing to take responsibility if you’re wrong? Because right now I know who’ll get blamed if we pull out and the Shi’ites do their impression of Rwanda, and ironically it’s not the people calling for us to pull out. I have no reason to believe that anyone else that is calling for a pullout intends to take responsibility for the aftermath; when they do, then we’ll think about listening…
– The same old meme continues on unabated by the party that can’t get anywhere without a defeat in Iraq, and in general in the WOT.
– Well moongirlies, now that al Qaeda leadership , IN IRAQ, has officially endorsed the Democratic caucus theres not many places for tje Leftnutz to hide. According to al Qeada, IN IRAQ, they will now endeavor to “pressure” Bush in the same ways as the Dems, and have publicly aligned themselves with the party.
– All that remains is for Dean, Pelosi, or Reid to invite Zawahri or Bin Laden to appear as guest keynote speakers during the fall Dem presidential primaries.
– Its totally umclear why anyone would ever lable the moon-gaggle Left as unpatriotic.
If Al Qaeda is in Iraq only because the Americans are there and the Americans leave, where do you think Al Qaeda will go then?
I only ask questions Democrat moonbats can’t or won’t even try to answer. It’s just something I like to do.
The whole point of the post is that a Presidential candidate is willing to try and turn a day that SHOULD be about, and ONLY about the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines (and Coastguardsmen – and the WWI and WII Merchant Mariners) who have died in their service. NOTHING else, no #$%& political protests, no @#$% politicking.
Memorial Day is for those who have gone on to their reward while in the performance of duty. To try and take advantage of that day is cheap, wanton and sluttish.
Somebody let the Saudis know they’re wasting all that cash on madrassas, pamphlets, mosques, and imam salaries…
Maybe to a dolt……
Translation: “When we pull out, if there’s genocide, it’s W’s fault for not having a plan to deal with it. A plan which, of course, better not involve sending US troops in to stop the genocide. This is of course why we want the pullout well before the next election.”
Major John,
I received a GREAT honor last weekend.
My 2nd cousin is a member of the Sisters of St. Joseph, and is going into the nunnish retirement home (she’s 91).
We had dinner for her for a couple other people and sister came in and handed me a bag, “Here, this is for you.”
She gave me her brothers medals, two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star.
Her brother, Sergant Francis F. had been killed during the Lorraine Campaign. He was in Third Army under Patton, and is interred in the American Cemetary in St. Avold, France.
She also had the Regimental notes for the battle, but I haven’t had a chance to really look at them, yet.
I’m thinking of getting a picture of my cousin, and maybe getting a shadow box to hold the metals.
I was greatly honored that Sister gave them to me, and I’ll try to be worthy of that honor.
The glorious identity politics of a civilian run military. People do get in a tiffy when they think they own a point of view.
Maybe to a dolt……
Hey now, it’s about supporting the troops, not insulting them.
AE writes that oil profits don’t drive jihad or some similar nonsense. I’m sure all those fine members of that peaceful social organization in Lebanon, what’s it called, oh yeah, Hezbollah, would be real sorry to see Iran’s oil profits dry up all of a sudden. No more oil profits, no more Iranian boom booms.
Is that you, Thomas Jefferson?
That’s funny how the one guy said Maybe to a dolt and then chris was all like Hey don’t insult the troops like that HAHAHA LOL and then Edwards was all like Genocide? It’s a serious risk.
Well, I don’t know about you folks, but far as I can tell, leaving – altogether – a contested field of battle, particular when one is compelled to leave under force of arms, is losing.
I’m not sure why so many, many of the people in this country seem to be eager to lose in Iraq.
BRD
Major John – Don’t forget the residents of Guam. We can’t forget about them because we allowed them to be placed under the boot of the Japanese during WWII. Next it will be the…..
Will the democrats ever let us forget our moments of national shame?
What Major John said.
Preach, brother.
Not so long as they consider them their moments of triumph.
That’s the part I don’t get either, BRD: how does one perceive what is clearly losing as “victory”? Or even “support”? Maybe it’s because that side of the aisle has learned that through constant repetition, a (ahem) Big Lie can be accepted by the public as the truth. But what they don’t seem to understand is the rest of that Big Lie thing: that in order to make the Big Lie convincing, the liars must control all the avenues of information. Let the actual truth seep in and there goes the ball game.
So. We leave Iraq, claiming to the skies that it’s a win for us and for Iraq, that it’s a choice we made purely on our own without outside influences (much less threats), and keep saying it and saying it and saying it… and those among us who wanted us to go believe it because they’ve wanted all along to believe it… but a billion or so Muslims, both moderate and radicalized, all over the world, see it for what it is. And the moderates pray and batten down the hatches, and the radicals grin and reload.
Jamie,
I guess the thing that keeps rattling around in my empty little head is that it seems obvious – to the point of tautology – that surrendering is losing. There’s no amount of reframing, or caterwauling, or rabid assertions that change that.
For a number of years we’ve kind of gotten into the headspace of spin, and reappropriating language, and all that jazz – but really, at the end of the day, this is a clear-cut a straightforward definitional statement as one can make.
This isn’t even really a question of perception – no “2+2=4”, but rather purely tautological “2=2”.
I can’t figure out how this is not a manifestly self-evident statement.
BRD
Maybe we could just get Democrats to try saying, instead, “Wow, this Iraq thing is a real challenge. We’ve been spending a lot of time practicing, and look how much we’ve improved since we started!”
BRD,
what happened to your guest post?
did the funny circles on some of the charts scare people or did it just disappear on its own?
[…] the US with a President who, when it was convenient for him to do so, was quite adamant that he had not been “misled” with respect to the war on Iraq, and that the intelligence all supported the assertion that Hussein […]