Consider it an Easter gift. Like Peeps, only saltier, and with a hankering for delicious pints of New Castle:
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said ran would free the 15 detained British sailors and marines Wednesday as a “gift” to the British people.
He said the captives, who were seized while on patrol in the northern Persian Gulf on March 23, would be taken to Tehran airport at the end of the news conference that he was addressing.
“On the occasion of the birthday of the great prophet (Muhammad) … and for the occasion of the passing of Christ, I say the Islamic Republic government and the Iranian people  with all powers and legal right to put the soldiers on trial  forgave those 15,” he said, referring to the Muslim prophet’s birthday on March 30 and the Easter season.
“This pardon is a gift to the British people,” he said.
Indeed! And the crucifixion was a gift from the Romans—because without the Empire and the Pharisees, we wouldn’t today be prompting our kids to poke through bushes and under garden gnomes in search of pastel-dyed eggs!
Asks Allahpundit:
The question now, given the de facto prisoner exchange yesterday involving that Iranian diplomat kidnapped in Iraq, is how much Britain  or we  gave up to make this happen.
[…] And right on cue, here’s maybe the beginning of an answer to that question: according to Iranian TV, the U.S. is going to let an Iranian envoy meet with the five Quds Force members captured in Irbil.
Ed Morrisey sums it up this way:
Ahmadinejad makes the most out of the reversal. Facing the threat of a blockade if Iran pressed this any further, he gets to look magnanimous while still maintaining the notion that he could have tried the sailors for espionage, even while dressed in uniform. It’s a net win, allowing the Iranians to feel as though they won a tactical victory while avoiding having to back up their rhetoric with action.
Whether this is a win for Tony Blair remains to be seen. He stuck with negotiations and got the 15 back, and he didn’t have to apologize for a violation that never occurred. On the surface, it looks great—an end to the crisis without a shot being fired. It’s what happened below the surface and behind the scenes that will determine how Blair fared against Ahmadinejad.
Maybe. But I think the real tell will be how British citizens react. Were it me, I’d be packing my bags and heading off to Australia to tend sheep—but then, I’ve been known to overdramatize.
But at least I’m in good company.
Bottom line—as Victor Davis Hanson noted yesterday—is that the EU, UN, and NATO seemed paralyzed—and this, before Iran goes nuclear. If the Iranians were probing for reaction in order to determine Western latitude for provocation, they likely come away from this quite emboldened.
In fact, Ahmanidiniwhateverjihad used his presser to chide the West for its lack of family values:
He criticized Britain for deploying Leading Seaman Faye Turney, one of the 15 detainees, in the Gulf, pointing out that she is a woman with a child.
“How can you justify seeing a mother away from her home, her children? Why don’t they respect family values in the West?” he asked of the British government.
Tiny little bits of Jewish schoolchildren could not be reached for comment.
(h/t CJ Burch)
“How can you justify taking a mother hostage? Why don’t they repect basic international norms in Iran?” Major John asked of the Iranian regime.
“When are we going to meet the First Lady of Iran. And does she wear her beard close-cropped as well?”
Jeff, you don’t actually like the angry, conflicted (and wrong) Victor Davis Hanson, do you? Take a gander at that history some time. Int he words of Sean Connery from “The Hunt for Red October”: “I read that book. Your conclusions were all wrong.”
Any moron can report the Spartans marched here and there, but the conclusions he draws from history are either pure hypocrisy or dead wrong. I begin to see where you have been led astray. Don’t worry, in honor of Matthew Dowd’s rebirth and the Easter season, we will welcome your repudiation of simpleton neocon/Perle policy mistakes.
Come to the light, Jeff
Uh, Timmah,
You neglected to link to your incisive, meticulously researched review of Hanson’s book, wherein you skillfully skewer all his assertions with your irrefutable logic and unparalled grasp of history. I’m dying to read it.
Jeff . . . stay away from the “light” if you believe in as political freedom, capitalism, individualism, democracy, scientific inquiry, rationalism, and open debate.
I think we’ll eventually find out that we and the Brits played this inning the way we did to protect the lead. The Brit hostages had no value to Iran other than soundbites for domestic consumption. The international media game did not play out as well as Iran wanted and the tradeoff presented too great a threat to Iran in keeping them longer. The diplomat we released, on the other hand, did have a lot of value. When Iran talks to the next lot, they’ll find out the same thing they found out from the guy yesterday – they’ve been wrung dry.
Ahmadinejad not only play his hostage taking card for little profit, he did the Brits and the US a favor by defining options. Neither country will consult with the UN, NATO, the EU, or any other mediating power next time. The response will be immediate.
Professor/Historian Timmah!, no doubt. ‘Cuz this is peer review, right?
I’ll be interested in what the 15 have/are allowed to say about the whole thing.
timmyb said:
I’ve read a few of Hanson’s books. I’m curious, which of his conclusions are “dead wrong?”
One he repeats quite often is the difference, since the beginning of ‘the west’ between the “citizen solider” of the western ideal and slave or mercenary ideas of armies found elsewhere. That one looks pretty solid.
Maybe you could, I don’t know, offer something to at least support your claims about Hanson.
What do y’all think abotu these British servicement allowing themselves to be used like this. American servicemen would punch themsleves in the face so they would be less useful for propaganda.
I undrstand that they were under orderd to not resist, but ther are little things you can do to piss the enemy off.
Snip: “This pardon is a gift to the British people,†he said.
I’m reminded of the scene in Schindler’s List:
Ralph Feinnes “pardoning” one of the Jews … to experience the “power” surge when one has the power of life or death over people.
Feinnes’s character grew quickly tired of that tiny thrill and, alas, resumed shooting them randomly from a balcony.
I suspect that Mr. AchminJihad will also soon tire of the “power of the pardon, and begin the killing wholesale in earnest.
Maybe it’s the different way of looking at adversity. Stiff upper lip and all that. Where Americans might punch themselves in the face and their home front would see that as the proper response, Brits wouldn’t give the blighters the satisfaction and their home front would see that as the proper response.
It comes down to the individual balls in the end though (apologies to Ms Turney, as she has more balls than a lot of guys in the US these days.)
I got the nicest Easter gift: the snowblower my neighbor stole last year.
The IRS, to commemorate Easter and Passover and Texas Bill’s “Chevypalooza Sale”, informed me that they were gifting me the tax money that I overpaid in the form of a refund.
Not sure we are “backing away” from capturing Iranian terrorist facilitators in Iraq because of this incident.
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11126&Itemid=128
Really? For totally super seriously real?
Hope springs eternal, I guess. Every time our estwhile “allies” let us down (let alone work against us), I hear a chorus of those who believe that this time, we’ll finally cast aside worthless institutions like the UN, and the next time it happens, we’re right back to dithering around with them. That will continue to be the case as long as a substantial portion of the populace insists on assuming bad faith in American interests, and the leadership of the other side of the aisle insists on not having the backbone to stand up to them.
Nick, the question was for JeffG, but, since your response shows you have at least read a VDH book…well, I’m game. First, you are correct, no less of a god than John Keegan has praised VDH’s work on the citizen soldier concept. It’s fine work.
But, my main problem with Hanson’s books is that he constantly judges the actors of the past by the mores of the present. Rooting against, loudly (if that is possible on the printed page) and constantly, the Spartans because they treated the helots badly is a little incongruent concerning his hero Epaminondas was a slave owner (and slavery was prominent EVERYWHERE in Greece.) For Christ’s sake, every ancient society had slaves from the Mayans to the Romans to the Polynesians. The historian should not root for one slave-holding nation versus another.
Similarly, and this is delicious irony, he constantly (throughout any of his books and articles) expresses his hatred of Alexander and accuses him of being a war-monger. For example, he criticizes Alexander for attacking Persia without being provoked. No matter what your politics re: Iraq (I see the irony, many of you will not see it), it is simply ludicrous to support “wars of choice” now in relatively peaceful and stable times and decry them in unstable times where wars were constant and unending (in fact, methinks Pablo will be picking an Alexander the Great bio, scratching his chin and muttering: “Unending war in the Middle East…I got to read about this guy! That’s a great idea”).
I know Vick’s major problem with Alexander is that he burned Thebes to the ground and placed Athens firmly under his royal thumb, but you’d think his cause and effect analysis would help him realize without Alexander’s conquests, the East would have never been Hellenized. Without Greek science and learning and language, Christ himself might have lived and died without notice (the Scriptures Hanson holds so dearly were written by the Greek diaspora for Greek intellectuals).
I finished the book and am a regular reader of his website, so I’m pretty familiar with his loony ways. But, IF that is your cup of tea, Nick, then I suggest reading Bob Kagan’s works too. He also sprinkles right wing politics throughout the Ancient World. And, he tells a fine yarn. Sparta as the Soviets and Athens as the Americans and Demosthenes as Ronnie Reagan. A little dated, but then so is VDH’s “a Democratic Iraq will transform the Middle East.”
In the end the guy criticizing Alexander the Great for being a war-monger while advocating the American conquest of the same ground seems to be cognitive dissonance on a monumental scale.
You may return to your thread. I don’t want to hijack it to attack a right-wing hack. I can do that at his website!
Of course the various international bodies will be consulted. We will still see the broadcast footage of frowny-faced diplomats entering imposing buildings, shots of the UN headquarters and all of its flags, the scene of a dumpy balding guy in a dark suit speaking into a microphone in front of the nameplate that informs all thet he is from Quablekistan, and so on ad infinitum.
The question I have is any of that ‘consultation’ ever real, or is it just a finger-shadow show, done because the etiquette requires it be done but understood to be just an act? You know, a propriation to the international lefts’ god, but nothing more than that.
This is all well and good, but I’m ready for some REAL news out of the Middle East. Anybody heard whether Pelosi has surrendered to the Syrians yet or not, or at least whether she’s joined in with some students in burning George Bush in effigy and shouting “Down with America?”.
So, you really don’t know anything about history.
Why am I surprised?
Snarky bullshit aside, ya, I do think so. We did learn our lesson. We would have fired. And if we hadn’t been in a position to do so immediately, would have responded with strikes. The next time the Brits will fire, knowing that for one, Iran will indeed take military hostages, and for another, now they know like we do that there’s no reason to think other response options would be of any use. And I’d bet Iran figures it was a one shot deal too (assuming they do not have a nuke behind another try, in which case the stakes change far beyond the present discussion). So it’s unlikely we’ll know.
You know what else is interesting? The naval units that moved into the region are not being withdrawn, nor has the movement of other units into the region stopped.
Diplomacy still works, SGT.
Isn’t that good news?
Nice to have a Plan B.
Nicer still if it was Plan A.
If diplomacy works, why didn’t the Iranians complain to the British embassy about encroachments, rather than violating Iraqi waters, committing piracy, and violating the laws of war?
The EU pissed itself for all the world to see. I think they’re about on Plan F now, which has something to do with forcefully prosecuting the, um, iPod.
Bits of half a million Basiji children remained strangely silent.
To be fair, from alphie’s perspective, the diplomatic approach is working perfectly.
Uh, no Karl.
Because that would require having a world-view, and alphie has specifically and categorically rejected the idea that he has a worldview.
That all depends on what was given away.
Appeasement works too, at least for awhile. Then eventually the guy you’re appeasing realizes he doesn’t need to play nice anymore and stops doing so, or he realizes that you no longer have anything worthwhile to bargain with.
God…I can’t BELIEVE I just responded to this twit. I’m gonna go punish myself now by watching re-runs of “The View”
SGT – Suicide by O’Donnell?
(Thinks about possible ways that could happen)
“shutter” Ewwwww
That should be “shudder”.
Damn afternoon drinking…
Yeah, you definitely don’t want to hear a shutter if you’re committing suicide by O’Donnell.
Well. Diplomacy in the form of two aircraft carriers. Always works for me.
Sorry, but I’ve simply heard this entirely too many times over, well, my entire lifetime, to believe for a moment that the next time, we won’t find some way to handcuff ourselves. I don’t believe that anything short of another 9/11 will unify enough Americans to actually respond in a manner that psychos like Ahmedinijawhatever deserve.
And even then, only until the next election campaign starts.
I don’t believe that anything short of another 9/11 will unify enough Americans to actually respond in a manner that psychos like Ahmedinijawhatever deserve.
I think the nation is far enough gone now that the response would be to blame President Bush for rilin’ the bad guys. We could be invaded by an army and the press would call it our fault, because of Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.
I think the nation is far enough gone now that the response would be to blame President Bush for rilin’ the bad guys. We could be invaded by an army and the press would call it our fault, because of Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.
Posted by Christopher Taylor | permalink
Short of completely denying funding for the troops,(which would put a republican in the whitehouse in 2008)I don’t think there will be another major attack on US soil while Bush is in office. Should our troops leave the ME prematurely or a prog dem get elected in 2008 i would say it would be a certainty. You can bet the DNC is hoping for another attack on Bushes watch. Why else would Nancy Pelosi take it on herself to implement foreign policy.
The British sailors an marines are arriving home now. I’m sure the aircraft carriers didn’t hurt negotiations.
I think it was all Nancy Pelosi’s doing. After meeting her, the Syrians decided that the Great Satan wasn’t much of a threat after all if we put this dingbat in charge of anything, so they told the Iranians to go ahead and set them free.
SGT is write- Pelosi and the democrats are going to take credit for it (in fact, look at Drudge this morning and it appears they already are). The Syrian terrorists apparently played a “major” role in the release of the hostages.
And the leader of the democratic party is working with terrorist states to undermine her own country’s president.
I SOOOO appreciate all the idiots who stayed home last election- Nancy Pelosi aiding and abetting our enemies as Speaker of the House is SOOO much better than another 2 years of republican ineptitude.
Or, put another way, Republicans in Congress are stupid and greedy while Democrats in Congress are vile and evil.
Am I the only person who, at this point, is seriously questioning the British soldiers held ‘captive’ by the Iranians?
According to everything we’ve read and/or seen, they were treated well. If that’s the case, doesn’t anyone else find it rather revolting that they jumped up in front of Iranian cameras and helped spread the propaganda without any coercion?
Matt, how is Pelosi undermining the President. Are lawmakers required to stay at home on Easter recess. Any opinion on the Republican delegation to Damascus? Were they undermining the President? When Pelosi tells the Syrians that they need to stop funding Hamas, what part of that message undermines the President?
The way righties can be led from the White House by faux-rage is just a mystery.
For your continued edification, I went ahead and included a couple of links to Laura Bush and Condi wearing the hajib in Muslim countries. Apparently, the scarf doesn’t know it’s a bi-partisan oppressor….
http://www.mahablog.com/wp-content/uploads/scarf6.jpg
http://www.mahablog.com/wp-content/uploads/condihijab.jpg
Ask the Washington Post.
Am I the only person who, at this point, is seriously questioning the British soldiers held ‘captive’ by the Iranians?
According to everything we’ve read and/or seen, they were treated well. If that’s the case, doesn’t anyone else find it rather revolting that they jumped up in front of Iranian cameras and helped spread the propaganda without any coercion?
Posted by Agent W |
The mere fact that they were taken against their will is coercion.
If Andy McNAbb is to be believed British soldiers are trained to give all the appearances of being cooperative while not being cooperative.
I’ve been doing that all my life.
Oh, come on. I highly doubt someone like John McCain would say that’s worthy of acting as Iranian puppets.
Yet they were cooperative, without confirmed coercion (beyond the ridiculous idea that capture alone is enough coercion to become a sock puppet), and did everything Iran asked of them.