Kerry and Gore? Done. Ditto Edwards. And I don’t think Obama has enough depth to last even a few layers of media peeling. Early Favorite? USA!
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
- In The Mailbox: 12.23.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll truly IS a sad, embittered psychopath
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I’ll have a go:
Evan Bayh and Mitt Romney
Evan/Mitt
I will want to know the foreign policy and military cred of any candidate. That’s first.
Second I want to know what they are going to do about immigration.
Third I want to know their moral posture on social issues and freedoms. No zealots, and no phonies, need apply.
Is anyone left?
How about Rick Perry (Gov, TX) for VP and Rick Sanford (Gov, SC)for President? I know, they aren’t Democrats, but my wife went to school with Rick and says he asked her out once. I want to keep him out in the open where I can keep an eye on him. Cuz my wife – smoking hot!
Media peeling Obama? Romneys grandfather perhaps, but who exactly do you see peeling Obama?
Giuliani?
Foreign policy / military experience for Giuliani?
Also, his pro-gay pro-abortion position will hurt him with the Rove base.
How about a Giuliani/Lieberman ticket?
It might draw off enough sensible Democrats that understand that the MoveOn.org crowd will, in the long run, do for their party’s nat’l defense credentials what George McGovern did AND win enough of the financial/voting support of the jewish community to hobble the Democrat ticket, whomever that may be (Clinton/Richardson?).
Giuliani / “that Jerome ave. squeegee guy” – that’s a real winning ticket.
Foreign policy experience here and here.
Tell me he’s going to enforce our borders and I’m voting for him.
McCain will get the nod, Clinton will win the election.
I’ll bet my internet anonymity on it.
Giuliani commanded the biggest bunch of uniformed, armed dudes not on the Federal level. The NYCPD. I also think he has foriegn diplomicy cred, but I’m to lazy to check how much. Are you limiting your choice of candidate to only those from congress?
I was thinking of some one to fill your qualifications, not Roves base.
A new poll was just done in the Southeast – Rudy was WAY ahead.
I don’t think it will hurt him at all, especially if he runs againt Hillary. How many Southerners do you think will vote for Hillary against well…anybody?
Foriegn policy experience is way over-rated.
What FP experience did Reagan, or for that matter, Clinton have before taking over the Oval Office?
Since we’ve made a habit of electing Governors, not Senators since the 60’s, who did have any real FP experience? Perhaps Bush Sr. could claim his UN tenure and Ambassador to China bona fides, but that certainly didn’t translate into a great presidency.
Give me a man with strong convictions, the ability to be persuasive and the cohones to do what’s right, as opposed to what’s popular, and I’m voting for him. At this pont, that’s Rudy.
I think the base will come around if it comes down to a choice between Giuliani and Hillary.
After all, Giuliani is likely to nominate SCOTUS justices, if he has the opportunity, that are Constitutionalists. He tends to deplore social engineering and knows it comes from the Courts.
And I don’t think being “pro-gay” is going to hurt him with anyone. Very few people are truly anti-gay—though many don’t want to see gay marriage. If civil unions come out of pro-gay Republican President, that would certainly speak well to moderates.
I was thinking earlier today about a Giuliani Lieberman ticket, but the problem is, Lieberman, for as stalwart as he’s been on the war, is still a very progressive fellow, once you factor out his support for Iraq and faith-based initiatives.
And so he might not be the best choice—though it is intriguing.
Now, drag Zell Miller’s ass out of retirement and we can talk.
Pablo, thanks for the ambition.
I’m not sure what he thinks about the border, and though I want somebody to step up on that issue, I’m very pessimistic anything will be done, no matter who is elected president.
We could dig up Teddy Roosevelt.
If the Dems are gonna have Dead People vote, we should be able to have a Dead Candidate run. I like his chances.
McCain gets the nod and a LOT of folks on the conservative side stay home election day.
Ask me again in a year. For all we know Giuliani could be on the Supreme Court by then, and Obama could be starring in a new branch of the CSI franchise.
Or, you know, vice versa.
That’s why Clinton wins. McCain gets the nod becuse it’s his turn. Just like Dole in 96. No chance, well, maybe an outside chance, but he spent a lot of money and waited a looong eight years for this.
Bush’ll have to back him, and he will be subsequently landslided back to Arizona. Which he might carry, barely.
Sorry, Jeff. Gotta disagree about Zell Miller.
After his threats of personal violence against Chris Matthews in that very contentious interview during the convention in 2000, the media has the knives out for him.
They’d make him look like that old, bumbling buffoon Adm. Stockdale that ran with Perot, or worse, like a modern day Curtis LeMay, the Ex-Air Force General that ran with George Wallace.
By the time the media got thru with Miller, we’d be praying for Dan “Potatoe” Qualye!
The only thing that could hurt Rudy is his anti-second ammendment history.
With me at least.
Yes, I’m aware of that.
Pablo: I know about those two incidents but they don’t translate into foreign policy cred.
Lee: Fair enough.
Carter, Clinton ….
Bush 41 was pretty good in that area. So was Nixon. I want someone who knows foreign policy, and who knows the armed forces. McCain, possibly.
And I don’t want anyone in the National Security establishment who can play Schubert on the piano and read Tolstoy in the original. That means Condoleeza is OUT.
Condi on the tube sounds more presidential than anyone else.
Have another look around the world, steve. That’s exactly the sort of credentials I’m looking for.
Everything I have read about Condi re: Iraq indicates that she is completely passive, feckless, and ignorant.
In the Northeast that’s known as “electable”.
Where do you read that?
Every analysis I have read about behind the scenes stuff concerning Iraq indicates that:
1. Condi had no pull with anyone, beginning even before 9/11,
2. Condi was easily dominated and shut up and out by DOD,
3. Condi was clueless on the issues involved in allowing DOD to run the post-Iraq show.
I think you will find that anywhere you look, but the last place I saw it was in Woodward’s latest book.
I want her back at Stanford.
Dude, did you word it like that on purpose?
Cuz now I’m sporting a chubby…
McCain would be fun as Secretary of Defense in a Giuliani administration. For a time.
et tu Freud?
Because the mayor of the city that hosts the UN has never dealt with foreign countries.
Woodward’s as reliable as the Weekly World News.
Tell you what.
If you come up with some, you know, facts, get back to us, ‘mkay?
Being the mayor of NYC is pretty think for foreign policy or military experience.
Things that Rudy has to contend with: the first thing is, the mayor of NYC has to be the mayor of NYC, and the politics of NYC, which is highly urban, highly immigrant, and highly patronage oriented, doesn’t translate well.
~ NYC is anti-gun, unlike most of America.
~ NYC is pro-gay, unlike most of America (I said “anti-gay” earlier, but I mean this in terms of civil unions and general “so what” acceptance.)
~ NYC is pro-choice, unlike many in America and specifically the GOP base.
~ NYC is heavily EEOC oriented, and bureaucracy oriented, and patronage oriented (this goes back to the Irish originally, I think, but it has been picked up by everyone else since then.) Most Americans are opposed to identity politics, growing government, entitlement mentality, and power through the dispensation of the state.
So, Giuliani will have to deal with all of that.
In addition, Rudy has to contend with:
~ Bernie Kerik
~ The way he handles his wives
Good luck.
Giuliani will defeat the Hildebeest in 2008. I’m not thrilled with Rudy’s stances on immigration and gun control. He’s far from the ideal candidate, but I don’t see anyone on either side as ideal.
McCain’s maverick image plays well to the msm. Among the voters, not so much. I can’t stand him because of McCain-Feingold and the Keating 5.
Obama is doing well now only because he has no record. He is the perfect progressive candidate: all image & no substance. I believe he’ll crumble once the Clinton attack machine gears up. The media is fawning on him now, but they’re like sharks: if he starts to bleed, they’ll pile on.
Robert, Nobrain:
You can direct me to any critiques of Woodward’s latest (since that’s we’re discussing right now) that disputes the descriptions of Condi’s performance. I will read and get back to you.
You can also direct me to any positive, specific, appraisals of Condi’s accomplishments in the Bush admin, either as NSC or Sec State. I will read and get back to you.
Rudy’s got the charisma. And he has accomplished many things. The dem’s candidates…not so much.
I followed Rudy everyday as mayor of NY—I liked him, I just don’t think he’s qualified to be POTUS— and one thing he doesn’t have is charisma.
McCain might get the Republican nod ‘cuz “it’s his turn”, but that’s the only substantial reason that I see. But I think that will require McCain pandering to the Republican Party leadership; I’m not convinced that McCain has all that much of a grass roots appeal.
I admit to speaking from a certain personal prejudice, as I am not happy with McCain over a number of issues, but I have not seen much joy over his campaign thus far in the blogs that I frequent. Anecdotal evidence, FWIW. I could be wrong.
Otherwise, I am waiting to see what happens in the Republican campaign; we have months until the primaries, let along the 2008 elections, so I’m not getting to deep.
Ditto for the Dhimmicrats. Yes, I would prefer a Republican president, but I simply have low expectations for that lost cause. If Lieberman somehow gets the nod, I might vote that way, depending on what Joe does between now and then. Since there’s something like a 0.000038474% chance of the DNC nominating Joe, well, I merely point out the possibilities to Howlin’ Howie (hey, he sends me e-mails, exhorting me to drive out the Rethuglicans from Congress! So I can offer sage advice, should he read this).
But the pre-primary jostling for the Party Of The Clueless™ is far from over. Hillary! is showing her claws, Obama is being sweet and kind but firm, and the other candidates appear to be clearing space for the pending battle, perhaps hoping to clamber over their political corpses to gain the Dhimmicratic nod.
In any case, this presidential campaign, while it promises to be long and tedious, at least has the potential to be entertaining at some points. I won’t make any guesses as to whom the DNC nod goes to, but I will say watching Hillary!‘s political career crash and burn like the Hindenberg would make up for the early campaign start.
I know I will.
I bet his stance on gun control changes. As I said before, if he looks at Britain and much of Europe, he’d be a fool not to trust Americans to arm themselves.
Plus, like I noted before, he’s not much into social engineering. So, though he may have personal opinions about matters, he isn’t likely to force them on the country if the country disagrees with him.
Hillary’s saving grace is that she’s tied, via Bill, to pax Americana and the glorious days at the end of history before Bush came along and coaxed Islamic militants into an attack (or blew up the buildings himself, depending on which conspiracy theory you believe). Votes for her will be votes hoping that Bill gets another shot at being “co-President.”
I feel my pain.
I’d hate to do that, but I’d seriously consider it.
It would be nice to vote for a candidate, rather than against a candidate.
Steve,
You have already shown your distaste for Rudy, which is fine, but I totally disagree w/ you regarding his experience or his charisma. None of the top Republicans will be able to compete or appear nearly as comfortable in front of the naturally hostile media like Rudy has shown throughout his career he can. Of all of his potential Democratic opponents, he can tout his successes, while they have had none. “I cleaned up NYC†will go far against harsh criticism from the left or right, what’s their retort, he didn’t? Look at Times Square, before & after.
Overlooked is that that kind of determination goes a long way amongst conservatives, who unlike their blindingly policy adherent counterparts, they appreciate someone that has the inner strength to do what’s right, no matter how unpopular ala Ronald Reagan. While gay marriage is a way to bring out voters who may be sitting on the fence, but I’m not sure it is will the main cause behind keeping people home vs. going out & voting. If Hillary is even close near November that will be motivation enough; the potential irony being that Republican may be able to find success w/ the Democrat’s least successful political meme of late, “we’re not them.â€Â
I don’t think the marriage issue will be as harmful as the Dems hope it is, for the same reasons. All he has to do is appear remorseful & the American public will forgive him. Hell, Bill Clinton was accused of rape, repeatedly, diddled an intern & his wife still could be considered the front runner for her party.
I think McCain is a non-starter in the primaries. Everywhere he goes he’s going to be called “the Democrats’ favorite Republican,” which might play well in the general, but not early on. I predict he tanks in New Hampshire and drops off the map completely on Super Tuesday.
Giuliani!
I wish Cheney would step down so Bush can bring Rudy in to take his place. Then Bush can step down to let Rudy clean up Baghdad.
It’s a dream I have….
Is support for Giuliani a backlash against social conservatism?
Rudy has possibilities. I’m simply seeing what happens before committing.
“Co-President”? Wow, talk about the Constitution becoming a living document! Hopefully that amendment (still being drafted by Bubba’s staff for presentation to President Hillary! just after she takes her oath of office) entitles the Co-President to a retinue of attractive, nubile young female interns at all times.
TW: need65. That’s a large retinue!
Apparently fathers aren’t held to the same standards as grandfathers.
Odd, isn’t it?
California might surprise you… and I think if his primary turnout shows that he puts California in play in the general election, he’s got a very good shot at going all the way.
Emphasis mine
Doesn’t being elected mayor through all of that show that he has dealt with it before, very successfully I might add.
I don’t think you are the best judge of charisma IMHO, no offense. But, I guess they call him Americas mayor because he wears nice suits.
That “if” is larger than Alphie’s ignorance.
If we are playing politics … which we are, Republicanswould offer up a sacrificial lamb to the Hildebeast machine and let her in for 4 years.
Which would be perfect 4 years for the Dhimmis to implode and discredit any serious possiblities of being anything more than a vocal minority. Let them prove their feckless irresponsibility out in the open. The rest of us can get long Crude Oil, gold and Ammo.
Playing for 2012.
Big gamble, OTT, because of the incumbency factor. And in addition to “playing politics,” which I agree we will be doing, we have to consider the fact that there’s actually a threat out there to contend with.
I saw Rudy speak at the CA GOP convention last month in Sacto. He invoked Reagan about a dozen times, talked about Alito and Roberts being the kind of judges he’d appoint to the bench, endorsed keeping the tax cuts intact and spoke of the War on Terror as the defining event of our era. Got numerous standing O’s.
He’s a great speaker, a man of conviction (not poll-driven)and if matched against Hillary, social conservatives will turn out in droves to defeat her.
Don’t know what the Vegas line on Pres, Giuliani
is, but that’s where my money would be.
That’s just silly. Like saying “lets get rid of the police department for a few years, so everyone can see how the criminals are just bad”.
The Republican nominee can sure count on my vote. I’m easy like that.
McCain is a total non-starter with me.
Especially after the way he treated the First Amendment the way a terrier treats a rat.
Guliani? Wait and see. I like him, like what he did in NYC.
If I favored anyone right now, it’d be Newt Gingrich.
BECAUSE OF THE SMARTS!
Full disclosure? I have already sent a donation to Rudy.
I’ll second you on Newt, O’Brain.
I’d vote for Giuliani, if I voted.
I’ve admired Rudy for a long time
His prosecutorial crusade all but decimated the Five Families, he turned around a horrid NYC economy, ran the sleazes out of Times Square, reduced crime in NYC by some 65%, and showed exceptional leadership post-9/11, including the refusal of the “it’s your fault†$10 million gift from the Saudis.
He’s a Proven Leadership candidate who should be able to win over enough social conservatives to edge McCain in the primary.
I’ve already put some of my money on him.
Given how the media HATES Gingrich, he’s probably got no chance in the general election. Granted, he’s about the most interesting speaker and most thoughful policy wonk in the GOP right now, which he could parley into an important role with whichever candidate wins the nomination. But the media will nuke him every chance they get, so nominating him would be tantamount to handing the Hilde-Beast (or Gore or Obama) the Oval Office.
The biggest problem with Newt is he truly has no charisma at all, and had no leadership skills once he attained an actual leadership position.
Well, other than authouring the rebublican revolution, and capturing both houses of congress.
*that would be republican revolution, of course*
My money is on Rudy for the GOP side. I do think he has problems with the social con element, but that he can overcome that by pointing to the work he did reducing crime and cleaning up Times Square in NYC. I think people think of him fondly for his reaction to 9/11, and I think that will be the deciding factor.
My personal choices would be Newt or Cheney, both of which have no chance at all. I could see Newt getting the VP nod.
I think Hillary! will be the Dem candidate because she is the best politician on her side. No one even comes close, IMO. I could see Obama getting tapped for VP.
At the end of the day, I see Rudy in the WH by a close margin. That said, I think Hillary! has a real shot.
Let me clarify about Giuliani.
I have lived and/or worked and/or dealt with NYC on an almost daily basis for 25 years. I know the city well, the people, and how the mayors are evaluated. There are a lot of things about Rudy that just aren’t front and center yet, but, in a presidential campaign, they will be. If you ask me to itemize, it’s all the little times that he appeared to invoke patronage, was spiteful, controlling, and in general a bitch.
I always liked him because he was a Republican conservative and I appreciated the anti-mob work. However, if a Republican is going to be mayor of NYC, they have to be liberal. Otherwise, no chance.
I can tolerate a liberal Republican, but I’m not sure most GOP’ers can. Actually, I would prefer a strict conservative Republican who was libertarian in spirit (like Reagan). But that’s not in the cards.
In all my years in the NYC area, I have never heard anyone characterize Rudy as “charismatic”, but, whatever. He was generally perceived as tense and dull. However—and this is of course important—he was a great leader after 9/11.
I would prefer McCain, or a Draft Powell movement, but NOT another president who has no military experience or involvement (like, say, FDR was sec’y of the Navy), and little or no demonstrated foreign policy chops.
This is why I would prefer not to have a choice between Rudy and Hilary. I will of course not vote for Hilary. I don’t want Bill in the White House again.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I don’t want a President Giuliani with little military or foreign policy experience hiring the same people that Bush has surrounded himself with. Let’s just say that their problem-solving ability seems challenged.
As to John’s comments:
No, because most New Yorkers buy a liberal perspective on these issues, and Rudy just went with the flow to get elected. How that will play countrywide, I don’t know.
Huh?
Johnny LaRue and Clark W. Griswold.
Activist Republicans (the ones who do the grunt work and vote in the primaries) hate John McCain. Regardless of (the activists’ ) personal social issue stance. Therefore he will never survive the primaries, therefore he will never get to the general. QED. He’s got about as much of a real chance as Chuck Hagel, which is to say, none.
Gingrich, OTOH, would get creamed in the general and has ticked off a lot of primary voters, so he’s a no-go that way.
Giuliani is . . . interesting. I voted for him for mayor in 1993 when I lived in NYC. He was good for that. Dunno about president. Very tough row to hoe with “the base”.
To be honest, the best Republican to go up would be the immediate former gov of Florida. But his last name would be a very, very high negative. Maybe he should change it to his wife’s – then he’d be Hispanic, too! (
)
Newt was fine leading the revolution, once he gained a Republican majority and the Speakership things didn’t seem to go so well for him. Maybe he would do better if given a second shot, I dunno.
but, but… he was great on that Sienfeld episode. He swore to get to the bottom of the no-fat yoghurt issue. Too funny.
Look at this resume.
I mean, please, no charisma? His charisma reeks… er, I mean, he reeks of charisma.
hey, we can’t all be Fred Thomspon.
Mitt, damn your eyes, Mitt. He’s the only one who’d get my vote.
If the choice is Rudy or Hillary, a good-sized chunk of the country will vote for Rudy… and start burying their guns. In fact, if that turns out to be the ticket, perhaps one of you folks could introduce me to a venture capitalist. I want to start a company making waterproof, non-magnetic gun-burial containers. I have some ideas…
Forget McCain. The Democrats could nominate Osama, and Republicans would stay home in droves. If they want a Democrat they can vote for a real one.
But what I really want is to have the 2008 primaries right now or in the next couple of months. Then all the second-tier candidates can start running for 2010 and 2012. It’s all they can do, anyway, so we might as well let them get on with it. It’s turning into a variant of Italy; the bureaucracy runs the show, while the politicians run for office but never actually serve in office.
The reason for the enthusiasm for Giuliani is exactly that. Of all the field, he’s the only one who has actually done anything useful while in office. The rest of them have gotten elected, then used their time to run for re-election or election to the next step up. McCain might be considered an exception, but whoever it was, above, who predicted he might carry California is on something I want a sample of right now. There is a real possibility that he might pull a Gore and fail to carry Arizona.
Given a real choice, I wouldn’t vote for Rudy. But I don’t expect a real choice, and looking at the bunch of losers squabbling right now he’s by a long chalk the best of the lot.
Regards,
Ric
Ric, all you really need is a length of appropriate diameter PVC pipe, and two endcaps.
)
I have family in Canada. There’s plenty of buried weapons around those parts. (at least that’s what I hear
*Is support for Giuliani a backlash against social conservatism*
No, I don’t think it is. I’m a relatively fairly social conservative but at the same time, abortion and gay marriage are not my biggest issues- yes, they’re important issues to me but there’s plenty of other issues facing this country t hat need to be addressed (immigration, war on terror, cutting spending, etc) and if those issues are tackled by someone less socially conservative then I am, but someone who will get the job done, then I’m all for him.
Right now, I see Guiliani as the only person with the name recognition and the stones to face some of our bigger challenges. Plus, Roe’s going to be the law of the land until there’s a significant change on the Court- personally, I’d rather a republican, ANY republican, nominating SCOTUS justices then Billary or Obama.
Steve,
As I said before if he can deal with those issues in ultra-liberal New York he can deal with those issues nationwide.
Going with the flow to get elected? Well gosh, I have never seen that work before in a national election! *snort*
I guess I should draw you a picture;
If you think Rudy doesn’t have charisma then you are not a good judge of charisma IMHO. I don’t think I can make it any more clear then that.
Brought to you by Officer john of the Charisma Police, Balding Divorcee Division.
To serve and protect the charismas of former mayors’ presidential candidates.
Officer john, Dave Dinkens needs you …
Settle down BJTexas! I sense some snarkiness there. Yea I like Rudy in ‘08. I think he has the charisma to do it. So sue me. I get the sense you didn’t read the entire exchange too.
Dave Dinkens?
john:
No snark zone. Jest havin’ a little yuk yuk wid ya, is all.
I happen to like Rudy. I think that he’s less about charisma and more about power and confidence. Charisma doesn’t mean squat. Clinton had charisma. So does McCain. Rudy has demonstrated grace under pressure, decision making capabilities and an ability to communicate assurance during times of crisis. He also has a thick skin and doesn’t appear to be a poll whore.
I just might vote for him. We’ll see.
David Dinkens? Former mayor of NYC, who definitely needs a charisma transplant.
Next time, I’ll forward cue cards…
Yea BJ I read your comments all the time and I know where you were coming from (and I like it). Cue cards not needed I was just giving it back.
I forgot all about Dinkens the do….must have been his lack of charisma.
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