I have a very busy day, and won’t be able to post much, but for your fisking pleasure, I bring you monkyboy:
I believe:
1. John Kerry served in Vietnam.
2. While he was there, he was involved in combat.That’s it.
I’ve never heard two soldiers who were involved in the same battle agree on every single detail. It’s not like they have the time or the viewpoint to see the complete “truth.â€Â
I looked into the swiftboaties claims after the election.
I ignored the tales of anyone who didn’t actually participate in the same battles that Kerry did…that eliminated almost all the swiftboaties.
Of the few that were actually in the same battles as Kerry, by their own accounts, they were in no position to even see how Kerry acted during those battles, much less pass judgement on his actions.
I imagine their tales are still good enough for the faith-based community to continue to believe in, though…that’s the whole point of belonging to it, isn’t it?
As wishbone was brave enough to admit…he believes in whatever helps him sleep at night…
You don’t have to bring in any of the 1001 Arabian Nights’ Tales that Hisheadisodd told Teresa, some of which have been shared with the public–but you may if you want. Remember, you ought to have some facts at your disposal, because those reality-based people aren’t easily fooled, unlike the faith-based. They have perfectly logical, unbiased and well-researched reasons for choosing to believe as they do.
I haven’t read Wired in a very long time, but in his article “The Church of the Non-Believers” Gary Wolf talks about the absurd rhetoric of the Radical Atheists, Dawkins and Dennett included, and concludes:
The New Atheists have castigated fundamentalism and branded even the mildest religious liberals as enablers of a vengeful mob. Everybody who does not join them is an ally of the Taliban. But, so far, their provocation has failed to take hold. Given all the religious trauma in the world, I take this as good news. Even those of us who sympathize intellectually have good reasons to wish that the New Atheists continue to seem absurd. If we reject their polemics, if we continue to have respectful conversations even about things we find ridiculous, this doesn’t necessarily mean we’ve lost our convictions or our sanity. It simply reflects our deepest, democratic values. Or, you might say, our bedrock faith: the faith that no matter how confident we are in our beliefs, there’s always a chance we could turn out to be wrong.
Toys for Tots rejects talking Jesus dolls
Talking Jesus, left; Talking Moses, right
Note to Mel Gibson: neither speaks Hebrew or Aramaic
A talking Jesus doll has been turned down by the Marine Reserves’ Toys for Tots program.
A Los Angeles company offered to donate 4,000 of the 1-foot-tall dolls, which quote Bible verses, for distribution to needy children this holiday season.
. . . .
As a government entity, Marines “don’t profess one religion over another,” Grein said Tuesday. “We can’t take a chance on sending a talking Jesus doll to a Jewish family or a Muslim family.”
. . . .
According to the company’s Web site, the button-activated, bearded Jesus, dressed in hand-sewn cloth outfits and sandals, recites Scripture such as “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again” and “Love your neighbor as yourself.” It has a $20 retail value.
Grein questioned whether children would welcome a gift designed for religious instruction.
“Kids want a gift for the holiday season that is fun,” he said.
No kidding. On the other hand, it might have some interesting debates with Magic 8-Ball, that resemble some of the comment threads with monkyboy. Action Commando Counter-Jihadi Jesus, though . . . that would be cool.
No word on whether the Marine Corps is accepting 1000 offered Tickle-Me Greenwald dolls.
Pandagon, typically, weighs in half-cocked:
The fundies are drop-kicked again, this time for trying to foist a talking Jesus doll on Toys for Tots, which rejected the offer.
She has a nice round-up of outraged Freeper comments.
Now try to follow me here, because what I’m about to say is . . . worldly. But do you suppose there’s any chance that the Beverly Hills Teddy Bear subsidiary that offered the dolls calculated that they wouldn’t be accepted, and that there would be a media windfall?
I think we should stick to fighting the elections we did win.
I’m sorry. Perhaps I haven’t had enough coffee to make sense of that.
And who would we be, actus? Murtha, or monky?
Most sensible people—on my planet, anyway—stop fighting elections after winning them.
Why is this political? Maybe the Marines just saw them for the tacky gift, they were. Good for them! What’s the big deal? The dollmaker’s can get their tax write off some other way.
Why are you feeding—nay, feasting—the trolls?
Ardsgaine, are you listening
The damn dolls are straight out of a bad Ned Flanders Simpson episode.
Well, that narrows it down.
Sounds like something Andrew Sullivan would say, Dan.
Eh,
Kerry’s so over it’s not worth even mentioning him except for humor purposes. This guy’s presidential career was over the moment he called our troops stupid and I think even he knows this.
If Monkey and the other idiots want to continue to claim Kerry was unfairly smeared, let them, who cares? Kerry the Klown comes with so much other baggage it really doesn’t matter.
I love though how Murtha, Mr. re-deploy the troops to Okinawa, is claiming now that the DEMS are the ones swift-boating him. That’s classic.
“This Holiday Season”
What “Holiday” would that be?
Well, if the Marines are distributing Christmas presents, then I don’t see why someone offering Christ dolls is so outregeous.
The Marines, not wishing to “offend” may be correct is avoiding these toys…but do they distribute toys that reinforce the Patriarchy? Where are the Pandagonistas on the Barbi question?
*snicker*
I guess then that monky can ignore all of us that believe that Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon in 1969
I mean, it isn’t like we were all there.
When “we” finally stop offending one another’s hypersensitive “sensibilities”, what, pray tell, will we have become then?
Both culturally and personally. Assuming there’s any difference at that point…
Specious comparison Darleen. The moon landing was arguably the biggest news event in history– clearly it warranted greater attention and was better documented than one soldier’s service among thousands.
Ummm
So, just what about Xmas in Cambodia with Nixon as President makes it “credible”?
Monky wants to take Kerry’s word because “he was there”, regardless of any facts to the contrary.
Yet, there is nothing credible about Kerry’s Congressional testimony.
Monky is engaged in version of “The 1969 moonlanding was a hoax” faith.
Before I forget, when J Effin’ K gazed into the ‘04 debate camera and promised each and every one of us “health care”, should I have taken that as gospel truth? I mean, he had neither the right nor the means to deliver.
So when J Effin’ K was “in Cambodia for Christmas”, should I take that as gospel truth? I mean, he had neither the right nor the means to deliver.
Therefore, when considering J Effin’ K’s abysmal record of truth-telling (aside from being a Democrat and all) do I (a) take what he utters as gospel truth, or (b) dismiss the fraudulent old trollop because he has neither the right to represent his own falsehoods as he does, nor the means to deliver on them?
That being part of the difference between a willfully lying opportunist candidate who blames secret service guys for his taking headers off his SnoBored, monkyspunk, and a CC who cannot keep to his intended staff (re: your inane assertion about Bush vis a vis Rumsfeld’s leaving his position) due to what may easily be seen as undue and also purely opportunistic political pressure.
There’s a difference between character and, well, no fucking character.
Just a little mental experiment for our little mental case, waxbananaboy.
Hope your’re being consistent about this:
BTW, most of the swifties who were there dispute Kerry’s version of things. So even after dismissing “most” of them, you’re still left with Kerry’s version being a lie.
Aha! That’s just what the New World Order wants you to believe. The Jooooooish bankers and Cobalt Blue Masons staged the entire thing in the Karl Rove’s basement. All of the astronauts were paid off with Tahiti vacation cabins and bank accounts in the Caymen Islands. They funneled the billions of space dollars into their mind control machines and the ubiquitous Orbs of Confusion, allowing them the opportunity to steal the national elections, start a war for oil in Iraq to further stuff the coffers of the black helicopter……
ping…please deposit 75 cents to continue this call…
Um, gotta go…
I can’t believe how successful monkyboy’s forays into PW-land have been. Multiple posts entirely devoted to the little rascal. Other posts de-threaded into oblivion. All the attention monkyboy could ever want.
hehe indeed.
Besides, all we know about the moon landing is what we were shown by the right-wing media, all of it secretly controlled by Rupert Murdoch and William Mellon Scaife and… and…
HALLIBURTON!
Attentively.
I’m curious though. Does faith admit the possibility of error? How does it determine when it was wrong? Since it doesn’t require evidence to support it, what evidence could make it doubt itself?
I’ve haven’t read Dawkins’ book, but I have listened to him on NPR. I missed the part where he accused the theists of being sinners and condemned them to eternal torment.
On the other hand, I was told by my kindergarten teacher that if I died without being saved I would go to hell. Now that’s polemics.
PS. John Kerry is a lying ass just like Monkyboy.
Kerry has about the same chance as GWB of being nominated. But while you’re at it……….
Monkeyboy says;
1. I believe GWB served honorably in the military.
2. He wanted to go into combat, but was denied.
That’s it.
Very Ezra Pound. Very.
muchow–
We can perform a live dissection on you, too, if you like. The topic could be idiot trolls, but we’re examining this one in (more or less) vivo, as a means of studying the pathology. He can’t jack this thread, anyway. He can only respond as he is.
Haliburton! I forgot about Haliburton! The EEG pulses produced from oil platforms.
Cheney you magnificent bastard!!!
Your Talking Jesus Doll won’t get you into Heaven anymore.
Oh, this is too precious!
Andy Sullivan is quoted in the Federalist Patriot under “Dezinformatzia”
Thus sayeth the the man seeking the “soul” of conservatism…
Where do I get a talking Muhammed doll?
You know, Dan, something like that might actually bother me because I’m neither as witty (or nasty) as many of the regulars here nor am I as oblivious (or nasty) as monkyboy.
OTOH, I do know that you and all the others so willing so “help” monkyboy to see the error of its ways are being played by someone who is clearly interested only in attention. And riling you up. And there you are: all riled up giving monkyboy that sweet elixir of attention.
You don’t like me saying that? Tough. Hehe.
They discontinued that model. Something about it constantly fondling the male children…
BJ, I thought it was the exploding turban.
Form 180, MonkyBoy.
Form 180, MonkyBoy.
Not some edited,
rationalized,
sterilized,
staff-reviewed,
Kerry-approved
press release –
but the Form 180.
Form 180, MonkyBoy.
Form 180, MonkyBoy.
Partly.
Completely. Know thy enemy.
Hehe.
I think there’s a talking Monkey-scrote around here somewhere.
Amazingly, I agree with Monkyboy’s two first points. I likewise believe that Kerry really was in Vietnam, and really did see Combat.
(Of course, nobody denies those, that I’ve ever seen…)
On the other hand, the pretense that only a “faith based” person (that being code for “the evil other side that will believe anything”, which is fucking hilarious coming from monkyboy) would believe that someone’s fellow soldiers, who were with him in the same unit and on the same boats, would have no idea at all about his character an actions, and that only those who were watching him closely at that exact moment have anything to say is… mindboggling.
Everything I know about military culture and war suggests that the character of someone in combat will be widely known by those he serves with, very rapidly – at least to the broad extents of “crazy stupid reckless brave”, “brave and capable”, “does okay”, or “chickenshit”, for instance.
If the majority of his fellow servicemen, who were in close contact with him for months of service, think he’s a chickenshit, well… it doesn’t take blind faith in Jebus to think that they know better than you.
Hell, I’m an atheist and I voted for Democrats for Governor and Representative in the last election, and I still think monky’s completely full of it on this. No surprise, since that’s my usual opinion of his stance on any topic I can remember his position on, offhand.
Science damn you!
– Item #1. I gave monkey-putz the ultimate shot across his baboon ass last thread in the queue. I layed out a fair compendium of Mr HisHeadIsFunny’s pravaricating “Career de Sade”, then challenged him to that C note wager. Til then, there’s no point in wasting anymore bandwidth.
– Besides, as someone else pointed out, once the “Clan des battes” writes off one of their own, the word is out that any further defense of the victim is Verbotten, and just too embarrassing, even for their brand of infinate fecklessness.
– Item #2 – Does anyone have a pic of the monkey with the little drummer boy outfit, playing the cymbles or the tempani, because nothing says Christmas like monky-poo spirit.
– Monkey has finally achieved the consistancy of that brown, caked on ring around the inside neck of a Korean red bean curd jar, after 6 months in the summer sun, sitting in the backyard of a 96 year old Pusan Har-moan-nee.
It’s pronounced “Her-MY-owe-knee”.
{/JK Rowling fan}
***
What?
TW: long-time resident of area76
There are of course those that believe that Science is the only knowledge that really exists and that Science will solve all questions. They have…”faith” that this is so. This is called “Scientism” in some quarters (there’s a good thread on it here:http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/009212.php#comments).
Personally, I think such people are full of shit, but they’re welcome to their beliefs.
Just a small addendum:
When I say “faith-based,” I’m not referring religion.
Rather, I’m referring to those Americans who believe in a…fantasy…about America.
When a person or an event challenges that “fantasy,” rather than re-examining their belief…
…the “faith-based” choose instead to believe the childish smears and nonsensical excuses the people who are profitting from the “fantasy” provide.
The fantasy here, chimp-anus, is that in your little simian head you have what you think is a logical explaination for what you wrote above.
To the rest of us, it’s just meaningless gobblygook or chimp chattering if you will. Just don’t like America too much, do you?
BTW: Are you planning to take BMoe up on his $100 bet on Kerry’s form 180? Comeon, now, don’t be a weinie…
– Drum – Har-moan-nee means “granmother” in Korean. Introduce “yul-MYo” into it, and she’ll probably hit you with her frying pan. (part of the contraction meaning roughly “How much do you charge”.
I’m not even sure what form 180 is, BJ.
Will it show Kerry didn’t actually serve in Vietnam?
As for my above post, I mean the people who believe Abu Ghraib was equivalent to a frat hazing.
Or the working-class people who still think tax cuts for the wealthy will stimulate the economy when it’s chugging along at a 1.6% growth rate.
As for my above post, I mean the people who believe Abu Ghraib was equivalent to a frat hazing.
Compared to having your head cut off, it is a walk in the park. That’s why the terrorists preferred it when the ameicans ran it as opposed to the Iraqis.War sucks doesn’t it?
Or the working-class people who still think tax cuts for the wealthy will stimulate the economy when it’s chugging along at a 1.6% growth rate.
Just give me your money now. You’re not going to have it long anyway.
You just keep thinking there, Butch. Someday you’ll get good at it.
To have faith means to believe in the existence of something without evidence. Scientific knowledge is gained through the examination of evidence gathered through observation. To say that requiring evidence to support one’s beliefs is a form of faith is a complete perversion of the English language. One might as well say that abstinence is a form of promiscuousness. It makes as much sense.
Faith is belief based on emotion. The only thing it gives us knowledge about is what we want the truth to be. Knowledge of the external world requires that we focus on what exists, make observations, and draw our conclusions from that.
This part:
is an equivocation. It seems to be saying that those who believe in science think that finding the answers to all of the questions in the universe is imminent, which would be silly and easily refuted. What it really intends, though, is to create room for a special type of question that only faith can answer.
Science is a specialized application of reason. It is advanced metaphysics, if you will. There are, of course, other questions that do not fall under the purview of any science, but no question falls outside the realm of reason.
Twentieth century philosophy abdicated on a lot of those questions, declaring them unsusceptible to rational analysis. From that abdication, two schools of thought have arisen to plague us. One says that if the questions can’t be answered by reason, then all answers are correct. The other says that if they can’t be answered by reason, then we must rely on faith. That is why we’re in a war right now with one group of people claiming that their faith gives them the One True Answer about the world, while people here at home tell us that since all answers are true, the fantics’ answer must be true also. You guys all know that both of these groups are wrong, but you have yet to realize that you can’t oppose one form of blind faith with another without becoming what you oppose. Faith is not the cure for what ails the world, it’s part of the disease. Reason is the cure.