In the LA Times opinion section today:
Bomb Iran
Diplomacy is doing nothing to stop the Iranian nuclear threat; a show of force is the only answer.
By Joshua Muravchik, JOSHUA MURAVCHIK is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
November 19, 2006It has been four years since that country’s secret nuclear program was brought to light, and the path of diplomacy and sanctions has led nowhere.
Meanwhile, Seymour Hersh says he’s leaking another document that he says says what he says that’s leaked early by The New Yorker:
A classifed draft CIA assessment has found no firm evidence of a secret drive by Iran to develop nuclear weapons, as alleged by the White House, a top US investigative reporter has said.
Seymour Hersh, writing in an article for the November 27 issue of the magazine The New Yorker released in advance, reported on whether the administration of Republican President George W. Bush was more, or less, inclined to attack Iran after Democrats won control of Congress last week.
A month before the November 7 legislative elections, Hersh wrote, Vice President Dick Cheney attended a national-security discussion that touched on the impact of Democratic victory in both chambers on Iran policy.
“If the Democrats won on November 7th, the vice president said, that victory would not stop the administration from pursuing a military option with Iran,” Hersh wrote, citing a source familiar with the discussion.
Cheney said the White House would circumvent any legislative restrictions “and thus stop Congress from getting in its way,” he said.
Geez, if only Sy could have gotten that out there before the plutonium residue was found.
And if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. I’m not worried. I’m an old man. I’ve led a full life.
A portion of my rankings of authoritative voices on the intentions of the Iranian mullahs vis-a-vis their nuclear program:
2,228,442: My third grade teacher, Mrs. Scott (deceased).
2,228,443: Fran Tarkenton.
2,228,444: Paris Hilton’s chihuahua.
2,228,445: Alcee Hastings.
2,228,446: Tupac Shakur (deceased).
2,228,447: Fred Barnes.
2,228,448: Mark Spitz.
….
4,290,612: Any member of female hair band “Vixen”.
4,290,613: Charles Nelson Reilly.
4,290,614: Ron Jeremy.
4,290,615: Seymour Hersh.
Bone,
Just out of curiousity I’d be interested in knowing whether Danny Bonaduce ranked ahead of Seymour or not.
TW: used69
I’m not going there.
Two rankings for Danny:
1,459,305: Danny Bonaduce (pre-steroids).
5,667,309: Danny Bonaduce (post-steroids).
So, in answer to your question: Yes. And no.
Charles Nelson Reilly is still alive ? I’m amazed. But sad that he is ranks lower than Fred Barnes. Now if we were talking about Paul Lynn. Now that I would understand. Paul was a mean drunk.
Diet Coke coming out my nose. And it hurts like a mother.
Our neighborhood trolls need to read up on how we skewer Fox News around here. But that would shake their world view and we can’t have that.
P.S.: It’s Paul Lynde. In the center square.
Well,
Hersh was wrong about the My Lai massacre and Abu Ghraib, I’m sure he’s wrong this time, too.
3,445,666,999: First birth of November 20, 2006 in Guangzhou General Hospital, Guangzhou, China.
3,445,667,000: Monkyboy.
3,445,667,001: Wldebeest herd on the move, Kenya/Tanzania border.
I am honored to place so high, wish.
Is Muravchik actually complaining that the Czar was overthrown?
Poor guy, I bet he hasn’t slept at all since the elction…
And that turned out to be a good thing how?
And since we’re talking Iran, ditto the Shah. Thanks, Jimmah.
3,445,667,001: Wldebeest herd on the move, Kenya/Tanzania border.
Monky outranks an entire wildebeest herd? Surely shome mishtake.
I gotta go with Angie on this one.
No self respecting herd of wildebeast would have come up with a balloon fence.
Of course the Iranians are working on the bomb. I am suprised they have not gotten one already given all the help the French, Germans and Russians are giving them.
Most Iranians, even the anti-government ones, like having the bomb. They are Persians, they cannot tolerate Pakis, Indians, NoKos and, of course, Jooooos having the bomb. If you are going to bomb them, make sure you take them the hell out or it will be like a fire cracker in a hornet’s nest.
Really it is way too late. The time to take out the Iranians was during the invasion of Iraq. We should have had a force of 500,000 and swept into Iran and Syria when we took over Iraq.
Get used to the Iranians having nukes. We need to make clear any attempt to use them will be a painful lesson to them. Let’s hope they have some reform before they use them.
Come on Bone, Somebody on the Hollywood Squares must rank higher than Fred Barnes ?
George Gobel
Wally Cox
Jo Anne Worley
You’re expecting there to be a return address on it? Or are you saying that if one goes off, we should just start nuking all the countries on our list of usual suspects? Personally, I think the time to start lobbing nukes indiscriminately is before we lose Manhattan.
TW: Time is running out.
Ok, this is killing me. How did I miss the balloon fence? Where is it?
Muravchik was National Chairman of the Young People’s Socialist League from 1968 to 1973…
I hate you, Czar!
No, I love you, Czar!
I’m so confused!
I better become a neocon and join the American Enterprise Institute!
Bomb Iran!
Ardsgaine, time ran out some time ago. Time ran out when the Pakis got the bomb and started exporting the technology throughout the middle east. Wonder why we haven’t caught Osama. . . could it be he is hiding under the Pakistani’s nuclear umbrella and there is not a goddamn thing we can do about it (other than starting nuclear exchange with Pakistan). We would obviously win that–but would it be worth it?
As incompetent as the CIA is, you can figure out where a bomb came from. Every reactor has a fingerprint of isotobes that can be monitored from space and aircraft. If a bomb ever goes off here, we can figure out where it came from and retaliate. If there is any doubt, take out Iran, Pakistan, and NoKo first and see what happens.
Really what would you do? Bomb Iran now. Really? It might delay a bomb. I would love it, but Bush has been burned. He will not do it. If anyone does it will be the Israelis, but my guess is that is not likely either. If it enrages Iranians and strenthens the regime, and only delays the bomb a bit, we gain nothing.
MayBee,
Go here.
There is more in Major Johns post, “More Evidence of Broken Soldiers”, also.
Who’s blog is this?
Whose. This wine is too good.
Errr, “More Evidence of a Broken Army” that is…
– Actually I have it on good authority that monkey’s science advisor Hothair Onfire Algore has already proposed an upgrade to the original “Most Excellant Balloon Adventure”. He’s come up with replacing the ballons, and Goodyear Blimps, with Helium filled Condoms. Man’s a freakin’ genius I tell’s yah…..
TW: moment24 ….Monday night on Teh History Channel, “Man, Moment, Machine”…the story of the Amazing monkey magic technicolor condum fense…Check your local listing’s for times….
lee- thanks. That was hilarious!
Although I am now convinced monkyboy is a paradoy. And nichevo is the most patient person on the planet.
And I was a Kennedy Democrat until 1979, monky.
And noticed Jimmah giving the world to the Soviets and letting the Iranians humiliate us. Never again.
It’s called learning. Read some P.J. O’Rourke. All will become clear.
Of course, all this to the guy who thinks balloon fences are the bomb. Pardon the pun.
– While we’re at it we better trademark that one:
“Condom Defense Fense”(tm)
Tom Clancy’s new thriller:
“The Trojan Gambit”
Available now for Amazon pre-order.
If I Had a Balloon Fence
If I had a balloon fence,
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
All day long I’d biddy biddy bum.
If I had a balloon fence.
I wouldn’t have to kill Palis.
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
If I had a biddy big fence,
Yidle-diddle-didle-didle fence.
I’d build a big tall fence with balloons by the dozen,
Right in the middle of the border.
A fine tin fence with real cables below.
There would be one long cable just going up,
And one even longer coming down,
And one more leading nowhere, just for show.
I’d fill my fence with wire and balloons and lights and flags
For the town to see and hear.
And each loud “bang” and “boom” and “pow” and “crack”
Would land like a trumpet on the ear,
As if to say “Here lives a safe safe man.”
If I had a balloon fence,
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
All day long I’d biddy biddy bum.
If I had a balloon fence.
I wouldn’t have to kill Palis.
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
If I had a biddy big fence,
Yidle-diddle-didle-didle fence.
– Lets try that again….teh last version has to much s in it: “Condumb Defense Fence”(tm)
– When you need the very best protection science has to offer…..
Dude, we got attacked by al-qaeda and invaded Iraq. How much address you think we’ll need?
If Tom clancy is to be believed, we can do some detection of the radiation and try to detect its provenance.
If I Had a Pit Bull
I’d launch it at monkyboy’s crotch
Hehe, wish.
Y’all can just fiddle, instead…
okay, obviously somebody with posting priviledges needs to make a balloon fence post. *looks at Dan Collins*
“balloon fence post”
– Well yeh…go for it…except you don’t need posts…that’s what the
blimpsballonscondoms are for…they’re “rigged” of course, so that’s what “holds things up”, so to speak….(this could form the basis of an
penalmissle defense insta-launch)I’d rather see a post about this:
http://www.globalorgasm.org/
Rest easy, everyone!
Actus,
Just out of curiosity, can you recall any place that was the focus of military action that might have been more closely linked to 9/11?
BRD
– ridged…. damn this Beef eaters is smooth….
Sure. But we didn’t stop there now did we? Now a nuke, we won’t stop for a while after that one. We’ll ride that train down pet-project lane.
Actus said:
A bit later, Actus also notes:
Is that to suggest that a return address would be rather pointless since our response would be to involve a bevy of countries, one of which, statistics would seem to indicate, would have been the source of the material?
BRD
I’d like to thank actus Johnson for that fine example of pure lefty internet gibberish.
It seems actus needs a memory refresher
Monkmeister sez:
It turns out that The Great Balloon Fence has competition in the “Dumbest Defense-Related Concepts of All Time” sweepstakes.
BRD
please BRD, it’s just another sad example of hippies doing their damdest to get laid.
“It’s for peace, baby!”
Maggie,
I could be mistaken, but I’m not sure that the linked page stated that any supporting activities taken for the cause necessarily involved other people.
BRD
Let’s set aside the fact that Hersh admitted to fudging things—at least when he gives speeches. Let’s set aside that he was taken in by forgeries and relied on a source with memory problems when writing about JFK.
Let’s assume, for the moment, that his report is accurate:
What sort of track record has the CIA had? Miss the Iranian revolution? Check. Miss the vulnerability of the USSR? Check? Underestimate Saddam’s WMD programs in the 80s and early 90s? Check? Miss 9/11? Check. Miss the degradation of Saddam’s WMD programs? Check. Renaming the agency the CYA? Check.
And what’s mising from Hersh’s description? Any suggestion that we have informants inside Iran that could provide useful intell. No big surprise there, as humint was gutted by Democratic Congress in the 70’s and the GOP Congress in the 90’s (though at least the latter had the excuse of the end of the Cold War).
I don’t think so, at least the global orgasm is…wait for it…doable.
jeez I crack myself up!
BRD,
That had crossed my mind, but then, why give so much lead time if you weren’t going to at least attempt to involve other people?
– When, and where in the hell, did the LA/NY Trash reporter staff’s become Teh definitive conduit for CIA inside intel material. Leaving aside the accuracy, and typical “cherry picking” that usually goes on at will, I would so love to see some of these idiotarian pricks brought to trial on something, anything, to stop the damn leaks. Until something is done, it will keep going right on.
I think we’ll find that anyone who stops to ask for return addreses obviously hates america and is objectively pro the other side. Whatever the other side is.
Totally. Blogs should get a fair share too.
Actus,
I thought folks here had been arguing that the ability to ask for return address is a good thing. Do you think that return addresses would be futile?
BRD
Maggie,
I dunno. Maybe the lead time was necessary for folks to find all of their equipment and manage the logistical issues. I mean anyone who is going to advocate that kind of approach with the idea that it might work could actually need a couple of weeks of lead time.
BRD
Too easy. Must raise the degree of difficulty to win the gold….
Don’t worry, a place is saved for Sid Hersh here in hell. Sid baby, it won’t be much longer.
What’s that old saying?
“Amatures talk performance, professionals talk logistics?”
Anyhow, figuring out where all the gear is and how to use is a pretty critical part of any operation.
/deadpan/
I think there will be patriotic heroes on TV and blogoland bombastically smacking around any leftie that dares to raise the question of whether we have enough return address.
Actus,
Holy mackerel – after a mere five exchanges, you have actually posted something with a non-zero amount of substance! It might not be an amount large enough to be visible to the naked eye, but a non-zero amount nonetheless. Are you feeling ill? Should I notify a doctor of this abberation?
All joshing aside, the question you pose drives, in its essence, to the core of the debate between the dovish and hawkish ends of the spectrum. To drastically oversimplify, at the dovish end the choice is thought to be between war and peace, while at the hawkish end the choice is generally thought to be between war now and much more difficult war in future.
The real debate does lie in reconciling these two views. With respect to your concern, there is, I’m sure a feeling amongst the sufficiently dovish that the warmongering contingent is perpetually (for whatever reasons) running around looking for excuses to bomb stuff. From the hawkish side, it appears that there are those for whom no amount of “return address” evidence will ever be enough, no provocation, insult, or injury that we didn’t deserve, and no cause worth protecting.
If you wanted to be really constructive about that kind of question, the most worthwhile thing to do would be to do something like penning an op-ed for a newspaper in a bid to try to spark the debate before the bomb goes off. Recognizing that nations in time of duress tend more towards passion than reason, it is certainly worth looking at the entire deterrence and response solution space now, before the unthinkable occurs.
At least in my experience, unfortunately, attempts from folks of the hawkish persuasion to start such a debate are often attacked as being warmongering or racist or whatever. So, if nothing else, let us start here and now, and maybe a little bit of the debate will stick.
BRD
If I were in the CIA, I would purposely disinform old Sy that putz.
TW: Give him the Moe Green treatment Prof. Turing? That’s kinda harsh on Hirsch. If you say so.
Meanwhile, Seymour Hersh says he’s leaking another document that he says says what he says that’s leaked early by The New Yorker:
Your writing is very elegant. But what does it mean?
Uh, no matter what reason i make now, that won’t stop the nutters deciding to go nuts on TV. Only they can help themselves.
Actus,
I admire the strength of your convictions in deciding that utter inaction is called for when invited to discuss and debate. Your humble approach to suasion is subtle indeed. Good luck with it.
BRD