A Not-So-Swiftboat
Allah has this headline: Video: Mary Katharine Ham slams John Kerry on Fox
I think on balance I’m more grossed out by the idea than turned on. But honestly, I can’t help but be turned on a little, too.
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
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It is true that our “all volunteer†military is made up largely of economic conscripts. Middle and upper class kids largely shy away from the army. And then you have a Brahmin class guy like John Kerry, a Yale grad, rich boy, who volunteers to go to Viet Nam and now is being challenged by the likes of Rush Limbaugh?
This just in: A Fox News tool just said that this country wouldn’t be what it is without the G.I. Bill. I agree, except that it was fairly gutted by Ronald Reagan.
John, aka iconblaster,
Kerry said what he said. He’s stuck to it because he’s constitutionally unable to utter the words, “I was wrong.”
Kerry believes in one thing, and one only: John Kerry. He could use a bit of autoiconoclasm.
Okay, we will discount Limbaugh. What about the 100 million or so rest of us who think Kerry is a douchebag?
Suppose it is true that the military is made entirely of “economic conscripts”. Does that make it okay to insult them?
“Stay in school so you won’t end up like those sucker bozos dope lemmings that Bushitlerchimp McFlightsuit sacrifices to line his pockets with bloody oil money!”
So is our “all volunteer†economy. I know I sure as hell wouldn’t have volunteered for most of the jobs I have had if I didn’t need the money.
And so it goes.
Actus thinks that it should be obvious that Frenchy was making a Chimpy McBushliar joke because Bush is, oh so obviously, not an intellectual. Apparantly pomposity and arrogance equal intellectualism. Chimp-anus thinks that Kerry, being a vet, would not have made disparaging remarks like that, unlike the “proven” disparaging remarks he made about Viet. vets, soldiers “terrorising women and children” and those hack Swiftboat guys who refused to join his “band of (political) brothers.) I mean, hey, he got three of them to join the band! Now John’s argument is that the military is largely made up of the economic underclass, so I guess that Kerry was right all along.
These are the sweet people who want to run your country. Don’t let them.
Actually, John you are very wrong. The military is composed of a cross section of American society with those from the lower socio-economic class less likely to be an enlistee. The education of American military personnel is also very high.
Tell the whole story,
SenatorJohn.YouKerry volunteered to go to the waters off Vietnam.It was only after he got there that the Swiftboats’ mission was moved to inland waters.
– Quickcode celltextmes 55 – CC: agents Dieter, Olaf, Lunar99 , ahab, Heegee, NTHammer, BrassRat, TankGirl, BlueBird, SpecialK
– The pumpkin has been carved. Orb of confusion a success. Little John steps on crank, and goes upside down surf-sailing. Guns and Roses for everyone. Phase two is on. Minimum cell chatter, and safe swim to everyone. End of message – coded Delta Zebra 0072.
(erase on completion – ref “need to know†article 322)
As far as the education level of recruits, there was a time when a HS diploma was required but now a GED works. This is only anecdotal, but here weren’t any kids from rich families in my unit. The military doesn’t keep track of the income levels of the parents of recruits. I seriously doubt that it represents a cross section. It’s good that we are taking time out for this outrage du jour. Meanwhile, this just in from today’s NYT:
A classified briefing prepared two weeks ago by the United States Central Command portrays Iraq as edging toward chaos, in a chart that the military is using as a barometer of civil conflict.
What was that about an inability to admit when you are wrong?
Icono: I dare say the only reason Kerry showed up for duty was for one of the following reasons:
1) He can’t find Canada on a map
2) He thought he’d get a desk job
3) He enlisted while on acid
4) He had delusions of grandeur, thought he was a leader of men until he realized the Viet Cong were shooting live ammo at him
5) His grades weren’t good enough for exemption
6) He mistakenly thought it would be a feather in his cap later when he wanted to run for office
Don’t give me any shit about Kerry enlisting. I was in college in the early 70s when he was undermining our military effort. The fuck head has a wing in a Hanoi museum devoted to his tireless efforts on behalf of the Communist victory. Fuck you.
Besides, you’re just bitter because Kerry has fucked you up real good this time. Real good. Have a nice fucking day.
– Seems this was a bad week for “Johns”.
– We took down an inhumane killer, and his despot regime.
– We gave the Iraqi’a a chance at a free Democratic country.
– What they do with it is up too them.
– The Jihadists CANNOT let that happen, or it would drive the final stake through their movements heart.
– What part of that senario escapes you John?
Please see the material I linked, John. It is part of a larger study within the DoD providing demographics of the US military.
I bet there were, if you go by the Democrats’ notion of rich. At least when it comes to taxation.
But how about middle class? After all, how many truly “rich” kids are there, comparatively?
Haven’t read the NYT article. But here’s an article you might want to take a look at, John.
If Iraq is indeed inching toward chaos, I’d say much of it has to do with a lack of will on our part—and that, in part, is thanks to the new left, many of whom have suddenly and remarkably embraced the foreign policy realism of, say, Nixon and Kissinger.
It’s the 9/10 mentality, only instead of longing for Clinton, you seem to long instead for Bush I.
Typical cut and run, crap, John. It’s one thing to be wrong about the future. It’s another thing to be wrong about the facts. To cut and run would certainly bring about the scenario you envision. We’ve seen these leaks before. They tend to emphasize certain aspects of the interpretation, and omit others. There are people in this country who would like nothing better than to see the troops pull out and the nightmare scenarios ensue, BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN.
Oh, and don’t think I don’t blame the Bushies in part, as well. It took guts to undertake an offensive posture against this kind of enemy (and it shows me that Bush understands that enemy at base), but it takes more guts to execute it aggressively, rather than merely show resolve. And I think we’ve been far too accomodating—and that the accomodations we’ve offered have been taken for weakness rather than for respect and deference on our part.
And not only on the part of our enemies, either.
Why do you keep conflating economic level with intelligence, John? You aren’t implying that people from lower income families are inherently dumber than the rich, are you?
– It all comes down to historical precedence. the “in” party during wartime tends to maintain, largely due in part to a restive electorate that waffles on changing horse’s in midstream. ANY sucess on Bush’s part would just exascerbate that situation. So. The Dems know all this starting with Afghanistan. They were hoping for a quick end to things after that phase, and when it didn’t happen, and Bush moved on Hussein, you could hear the audible moans from inside the beltway. The Dems have no choice but to root against the US in Iraq. They need that action to be over by ‘08, or they’re very possibly facing another 8 years of Republican incumbancy. they don’t even make a lame attempt to hide it anymore. It’s that obvious, particularly with the cheerleading from the feckless drive-by media.
– It’s understandable with a party that scoffs at everything “American”, but at the same time there’s no reason we can’t tell them and their ideology to go fuck themselves.
By rich kids I meant ones with parents who could afford to send them to college.
”I’d say much of it has to do with a lack of will on our part”
Who is stopping Bush from fighting this war any way he sees fit? The ten hippies marching on State Street this past Saturaday? Even a rag like The Weekly Standard can come up with something better than that. I opposed the war from the start but I thought we should have sent twice as many troops if we were going in. We should have confiscated every AK47 and artillery shell in Iraq. If they want us out they can throw rocks like the Palestinians (Weak arms on those kids due to under-funded little league programs). I’m outnumbered here. Adios, fellow Americans!
– Hmmmm…Guess it was harsh of me to let the cat out of the bag. Sorry John.
Thanks for the stimulating conversation, John. See you at the polls.
In more ways than you realize.
Which, for the purposes of taxation is $28,000 a year. You know, rich.
The current crop of Iraq vets running for political office might have something to say about the kinds of opportunities that military service has afforded them.
Oh, please don’t go, John, please don’t go. That’s it, I’m reconsidering my position.
Ok.
(And to think they say the Left has no plan for the survival of progressive Western civilization.)
I do think Kerry’s remark was a ham-fisted swipe at the Bush cabal. However, I also think it was inappropriate and uncalled for, given the circumstances. His frothing non-apology made things much worse. This whole furor is becoming absurd.
Frankly, I’m beginning to think that capitalizing on military service in any capacity in politics is a false front. Is there really a direct connection to someone’s service and their political conduct? Seems to me they might be mutually exclusive. “You served your country with honor, thank you soldier! Now that you’re a politician, the subtle and overt forces that governed your previous behavior no longer apply. You now operate in the shifting, opportunistic political arena. Better wise up.”
This occured to me a while back when yet another Iraq vet announced his/her candidacy with fanfare and an appeal to the “vetness” factor. I still don’t understand the central emphasis on vetness as a political quality.
Nice visuals, Dan. The contrast between those two pictures is the perfect device to define Rambo-John’s plastic view of his neo-magnificence. What used to take time, blood, and bodies now just takes images.
According to the Heritage Foundation study the only group truly underrepresented in the military are those who would be considered lower class. The middle class and upper middle class are both statistically over represented. Even the truly upper class are only minimally underrepresented.
Since every study confirms that the majority of Republicans are from the middle to upper class economic levels and that the majority of the military are Republican, it would only make sense that the majority of recruits come from those same classes.
– cynn. Good observation. Unfortunately human nature never follows nice pat expectations of alacrity, and distinctions. Expecting anyone to eschew a large part of their life experience is rather naive’. Kerry is a particularly grievious case, since he’s based his entire career on exploiting the military, and his own checkered service record. It would be simply impossible for him to jetison that approach this late in the game, most pointedly because he’s obviously still bitter about losing it all when his tissue of lies came unhinged in the ‘04 campaign. The truth is, it’s a testimony to the “fairness” of the system that both him and Kennedy are still around at all.
Okay…
I agree with you, should have sent more troops and should have confiscated all the weapons.
Got it.
Now tell me, where in the Democratic Leadership’s platform are they advocating that? So why are you voting Democrat again?
My parents (Dad was a retired Federal employee) paid for part of my college; I had a partial scholarship for two years. That covered about 1/2 the costs; I paid 1/4 (summer jobs), and the rest came from my parents.
Then I got a full ride ROTC scholarship for the last 2 years of school, so I told Dad to spend his money on himself.
But, by John’s standards, I was one of the following:
A. A rich kid for two years, and then poor for 2 years
B. Sorta rich for two years, then poor for 2 years.
C. Poor for 4 years.
And, hey, I was an officer, not enlisted.
Funny thing is, my parents were in fact middle class, by their income (retired or not). Of course, this was in 1979, but I expect that similar situations exist today.
But, from this, I can only conclude that John really didn’t know the rest of his unit that well, because a fair number of enlisted personnel are in fact middle class (and that’s from my recent experience). With college expenses having gone up so dramatically, it’s hardly surprising that middle class people are looking for alternate funding methods like I did.
I’m guessing John was semi-alienated in his unit for whatever reason*, but served maybe one tour, and went home without really accomplishing much for himself. You can get something out only if you put something in.
Anyhoo, John’s “reasoning” is shallow, his generalization sweeping, and his ignorance appalling.
Some sage advice, John: Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.
(*: I think that reason is because John is an arrogant jerk with delusions of importance. I can’t imagine why I would think that)
TW: matter26. Yep, John doesn’t matter.
Yes and no, cynn. Veteran status can be a useful item in your political resume’…..but it shouldn’t be a shoo-in for an election.
To elaborate…..”no” in the sense that being a vet is not an automatic certification as a calm, rational, and thoughtful person with sterling leadership qualities. I respect my fellow vets for their service….I do not assume that they are angels sent from upon high. I’ve known a few bad apples in my time, so I look behind the facade.
“Yes” in the sense that military service indicates (but does not prove) a desire to serve the community. Military service shows that a vet had some leadership experience, and is able to make personal sacrifices. It does not follow that the vet will exhibit those same qualities while in office.
So I look at military experience as only a part of the picture for a given candidate. It can be a false front, and the wise voter will recognize that.
BBHunter: I think I am more perplexed than naive. Of course military service would indelibly inform someone’s outlook. I just don’t think it should be a marketing tool. Harping on military service for its own sake muddies already dirty waters. Just my take.
– The worst of it is, Kerrys snobbish elitist comments are factually wrong. The military has a full 10% higher academic achievement level than their civilian counterparts. At least if he wants to denegrate some identity group for some political reason he should try to know what he’s talking about. Now he’s managed to once again show his distain for the military, and bring the whole country down on his heaad, and for what?
– The Dems, particularly candidates running in this election, know instinctively they need very badly to get out ahead of this mess. Harold Ford Jr., and Hillery, along with a growing number of Dem voices, are calling for Kerry to make a public apology, saying his comments were highly inappropriate.
– Like that disasterous interview with Imus this morning, where he told Kerry repeatidly. “Just shut up John and go surfing”
– Bob Beckle on FOX…. “[Sometimes] in trying to defend my fellow Dems I feel like the only fire hydrant at the Westminster dog show…. Would I say Kerry should apologize….yes quite frankly I wish he would and then just go home…”
How could he possibly apologise now? He’s effectively nuked that option by going on the frothing attack. Any apology now is going to seem disengenuious unless the combined talents of Sam Seborn and Toby Zeigler can craft a partial apology slash partial attack screed.
I don’t know if there is a speachwriter talented enough in the world to pull that off. In the meantime, I most cynically say, let’s keep up the pressure!!
– Well actually there is, but Gene Wilder is semi-retired…..
Well, there’s always Mel Brooks….
I’ll pass your regards on to LTC (ret) Pritzker (yes, those Pritzkers).
I grew up quite comfortably upper middle class. I enlisted at 18, later got a commission and am still in today. Education is strongly encouraged at all levels. You are confusing your anectdotes regarding entry at enlistment with how well educated our Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors and Marines are over their careers.
– a message from those dumb “grunts” in the Me to J F’ing Kerry says it all – FOX ran the picture of a group of our guys holding a hand painted sign saying:
“Hulp us Mr. Carry – We are Stuck hear in Irak”
(the “S” in stuck is backwards…. perfect)
Erm… correction…. “Hulp us Jon Carry. We is stuck hear in Irak”…obviously the previous version was too gramatically correct for the “dummies” in our military.
– Kerry is going back to Washington, which is unfortunate, because he was doing such a good job for the Reps.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the Fox Network changed its name to the Crack Network? That way, we could be treated to headlines and promos such as:
John Kerry Botches Joke on Crack Tonight
Bill Clinton Gets Angry on Crack
Hannity and Colmes, Exclusively on Crack
Hillary Claims Crack Part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
Ted Kennedy Refuses to Appear on Crack
Get Your Election Results First on Crack
Charles, yeah, but then we’d have to put up with all the crack cracker cracks.
Leakers, and their conduit the NYT, along with (until just a few days ago) the ACLU.
B Moe sez:
John keeps doing that because he’s an asshole, B Moe.
Don’t pay him any mind.
McGehee, don’t forget congress themselves. When the enemy uses your talking points in propaganda, you might want to take a step back and look long and hard on where exactly you stand. Unfortunately, as we’ve seen with jackass john, that kind of introspection seems beyond their capability. If only the laws of the land applied to them (sarcasm off).
Major John, I think it would be interesting if the ghost of General Walter Krueger could be sent to pay John a visit (and Sen. Kerry) and let them know exactly how he feels when someone disparages American military personnel.
Yup, can’t help but wonder how big his chin is, though.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm….
John Kerry as a Hapsburg…..hmmmmmmm.
I think that I can stop being outraged long enough to laugh my ass off at that vision.
Although that would be about the ugliest coin in history…
Please back off from J. Kerry. He is a non-issue here. He made a stupid comment followed by a torrent of even more ill-conceived blathering about apologetic qualifications, miscommunications, etc. Can we not comprehend what we experience and figure it out for ourselves? If not, we get what we deserve.
My question is: why is he relevant? He’s not running for anything. Who cares what he says? The DEMOCRAT PARTY (your shorthand, not mine) is distancing itself, while the REPUBLIC PARTY is making him an issue.
Ahh, cynn…
Here is a thread about John Fucking Kerry.
If you don’t see his relivance to the current political landscape today, you should cinch your helmet down tight and get back on the short bus.
Cynn,with all due respect, I can’t possibly disagree with you more vociferously.
The last time I checked, George Bush isn’t running for anything either. The DCCC has turned the president into a massive hard wood club and is systematically bludgeoning Republicans all over the country with him. It’s POTUS as the paddle and GOP candidates are bending over and saying “thank you, sir, may I have another?”
I just sat through about 15 ads for local Dem candidates here in SE PA. There were more pictures of Bush and Iraq than there were of the candidates!
John Kerry is still the De Facto and symbolic head of the Democratic party. He is still it’s face (shudder) and he has actively injected himself into the campaign. Whether or not he was trying to make a lame-o joke about Bush, he got his hand caught in the cookie jar and then tried to steel the cookies anyway. His apology is a non-apology and, with things as close as they are, it should be used, subtly but for effect.
Republicans have tried to be the sober, reserved party all the way through this campaign. Let’s take ther gloves off and get our manicured fingernails a little dirty for 6 days. I’ll sleep like a baby.