From the BBC:
A major terrorist plot to blow up planes in mid-flight has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said.
It is thought the plan was to detonate explosive devices smuggled on aircraft in hand luggage, with flights from the UK to the US being targeted.
During the night, police arrested a number of people in London after a counter-terrorist operation they said had lasted several months.
Security at all airports in the UK has been tightened and delays are expected.
Scotland Yard said in a statement: “We would like to reassure the public that this operation was carried out with public safety uppermost in our minds.
“This is a major operation which inevitably will be lengthy and complex.”
The Department for Transport set out the details of the security measures at UK airports.
Passengers will not be allowed to take any hand luggage on to any flights in the UK, the department said.
Only the barest essentials—including passports and wallets—will be allowed to be carried on board in transparent plastic bags.
Can we really be that far off from those bitchin’ x-ray machines from Total Recall?—the ones that can alert professional screeners to explosive devices hidden in a hollowed out regions of the pelvic bone?
Because those would definitely thwart terror attacks—though I’d probably have to stop smuggling heroin balloons in my ass. But hey—if it means a more secure world, I’m willing to charter a boat. Haitians work cheap, and I dig the whole pirate vibe, anyway.
Yessir. I’m willing to do my part. How about you, NED LAMONT?
(h/t Allah, who has more here—including a link to a Sky News story that points out that the threats were “imminent” and that those arrested were “mainly young, British-born Asian men.” Writes Allah, “‘Asian’ is used in Britain to refer to people from the subcontinent. Like Pakistanis.” See also, Ace.)
****
update: From the Guardian: “Police focus on liquid threat”:
The initial speculation over the nature of the alleged terrorist plot has focused on the fact that almost all liquids have been banned from hand luggage. Not even baby milk will be allowed on board flights departing Britain today unless an accompanying passenger is prepared to taste it in front of security staff.
The Metropolitan police Deputy Commissioner, Paul Stephenson, told a news conference that police believed the aim of the plot was to smuggle explosives onto aeroplanes in hand luggage and to detonate them in flight.
Bottles of water, contact lens solution and liquid medicine are among the items now barred from hand luggage. The Home Office website added that duty-free liquids would also be removed from passengers boarding flights to the US.
Terrorism experts suggested that the concentration on hand luggage indicated the plot involved explosives detonated manually rather than through a remote controlled detonator or timer.
“You could carry an inert liquid that if you mix with another one could become explosive,” said David Hill, a former counter-terrorism expert at the National Crime Squad and a security consultant at Red24.
“You could get the materials to make a bomb from a garden centre. Or it could be something as simple as taking on board paraffin and attempting to start a fire.”
Sources told the BBC that the plot may have centred around smuggling explosives on board in fizzy drinks.
From Forbes, ”Chertoff: Plot ‘Suggestive’ of al-Qaida”:
Chertoff said the plotters were in the final stages of planning before execution. “We were really getting quite close to the execution phase,” he said. He said it was unclear whether the alleged plot was linked to the upcoming fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 strikes.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said the operation could “potentially kill hundreds of innocent people.” Britain said 21 people had been arrested, including the alleged “main players” in the plot.
FBI Director Robert Mueller also pointed at al-Qaida. “This had the earmarks of an al-Qaida plot,” he said.
Chertoff said it envisioned multiple explosions in multiple aircraft.
[…]
The alleged plot was “as sophisticated as any we have seen in recent years as far as terrorism is concerned,” Chertoff said.
Chertoff said there was no indication of any plotting in the United States but the United States was taking step to protect against unseen threats or copycat attacks. “We cannot assume that this threat has been completely thwarted,” the secretary said.
“There’s sufficient uncertainty as to whether the British have scooped up everybody,” Chertoff said.
British authorities said the plan envisioned bringing down a number of aircraft with midflight explosions. Chertoff said the terrorists planned to bring various bomb components in a benign state aboard the planes and combine them once the planes were aloft to create and detonate explosive devices.
The plot seems to be a carbon copy of the 1995 plan ( Operation Bojinka) “to blow up 11 planes using nitroglycerine mixed in contact-lens solution and a battery-powered detonator”—though in this case, fizzy drinks appear to be intended carrier / disguise.
A reminder from the late Kyle Reese that seems particularly apt today: “Listen. And understand. That terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.”
All passengers boarding flights will now be required to strip and will be issued robes and slippers.
All luggage, clothing, and other items will be sent by boat or truck.
Coincidentally, membership in the mile high club has skyrocketed.
CAIR has issued a press release demanding same sex flights for muslims.
/sarc off
TW: I just wrote off the democrat party for this election cycle. This summer is gonna get real hot in more ways than one.
Move along. Nothing to see here. There is no terror plot. It’s a Rovian disinformation campaign.
Why bother with clothing at all? It’ll make flying much more interesting.
TW: boys will be boys.
Hmm. Apparently the Morlocks block links from Protein Wisdom.
Imagine that.
uh, yeah, as i tell the peeps backstage, “i’m changing, you can stay, I don’t care, but it’s your retinas that will burn.”
then again, I guess “interesting” isn’t the same as “good”.
What about the flights from the US going outbound? I find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t go for broke here. Our terror alert level hasn’t been raised…Yet.
They did arrest some swarthy youths from Dearborn this week with 600 throw away cell phones and airline info.
Naked? Some peeps hygiene would be seem to be counterproductive for that. Besides ever sit beside a 300lb redneck from Birmingham in a tank top? Not a vision I want expanded into frightening territory.
TW What were you two doing in the bathroom? HMMM.
Hmmmm…nary a peep over here. Can’t say I’m surprised.
There are x-ray machines being tested that can see through your clothes—to the skin. Google for “backscatter x-ray.”
I said “interesting”, not “pleasant.”
Much like walking barefoot over a mound of fire ants is “interesting.”
TW: This is a method to my madness.
… and the ordinary clock at Ned’s says:
tic
tic
tic
tic
tic
I QUESTION THE TIMING!!!
tic
tic
tic
tic
tic
It’s racial profiling. It is just a plan of Bushco to have him declared Emperor and disband the Senate. Darth Rove was responsible. There actually is no such thing as a Muslim or Islam. Republicans created them as a source of American focus on evil after the Cold War. Dogs and cats, living together…MASS HYSTERIA. They are the Religion of Peace. Islam means Peace. All we are saying is give Allah a chance. It is because we are occupying Orange County. Fat boy Rush had Viagra and grew horny and so they misread the reason for the alert.
Did I miss anything?
Threat level raised. But the homepage of the DHS is still warning of hurricanes. Typical.
Chertoff issued a “press release.”
Hey Mikey, try using that tube thingy and everyone knows where to go to for info.
DEE-DE-DEEEE
Homeland security webgeeks are still in training.
We are still trying to figure out why this plan was considered workable—aren’t carry-on bags screened and X-rayed?
This question was also asked on the LGF thread (#52) but not yet answered.
screened and x-rayed yes, BUT liquids don’t set off METAL detectors. Neither do explosives.
I know it’s late, but I gotta give you a dee-de-dee alert on that one.
When the leftosphere wakes up and you go out trolling it with hyperbolic Questionings of teh Timing, be sure to mention that today is Andrew Sullivan’s birthday.
Then go like
.
They caught all those Egyptians yet? And rousted all the immigration violating Muslims?
And figured out exactly what’s being preached in all the mosques?
Conclusive proof that “Green Helmet Ghoul” does indeed stage and manage these dead baby parades.
From German TV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPAkc5CLgc
Linked from Old War Dogs >> Authorities Break Up Major Terror Plot In Britain
Now, where did those
EgyptiansAsians get off to?No, I believe the euphemism for Egyptians is “Africans”.
The idea is that detonators (being electrical and thus tending to contain metal) will be just as hard to carry in hand luggage as in checked luggage. So, again, I don’t see the reason why an attack through hand luggage would be more feasible.
If only we would all convert to Islam, then all of this terror would stop being our fault.
I’m watching a press conf. right now that indicates, sammler, that the plan was to bring aboard two liquids and mix them.
<shudder>
Anybody remember Heinlein’s Puppet Masters? Not the Sutherland movie where nobody stripped down, but the book, with the parasitic critters that glommed onto your spinal cord and controlled everything you did? And how the whole country first went topless and then (when it became known that the critters could hide in your pants and still access your nervous system) naked?
<shudder>
Maybe global warming is good thing after all…
“The idea is that detonators (being electrical and thus tending to contain metal) will be just as hard to carry in hand luggage as in checked luggage. So, again, I don’t see the reason why an attack through hand luggage would be more feasible”
According to Scotland Yard the electronics would be disguised as normal things – cell phones, iPods, CD players, etc. Things that the screeners wouldn’t pay all that much attention to. Then, with the liquid explosives, everything would be put together, and the liquids mixed on board.
TW: Has anybody seen my mind?
If only Bush had signed the Kyoto treaty, none of this would be happening.
Oh, wait, that’s the wrong insane talking point.
If only …
You mean like the 600 cellphones those boys in Ohio said they sold to someone in Dearborn?
Detanators don’t need to be terribly complex, and could easily be fashioned from things that appear quite normal. For instance, if you’ve got a set of headphones, you’ve got several feet of copper wire that you could turn into any number of things. Got a key fob for your car’s keyless entry? You’ve got a remote activator. If it’s in a carry on, you’ve got access to it throught the flight.
Someone said «Allah, who has more hereâ€â€including a link to a Sky News story that points out that the threats were “imminent†and that those arrested were “mainly young, British-born Asian men.†Writes Allah, “‘Asian’ is used in Britain to refer to people from the subcontinent. Like Pakistanis.†See also, Ace ».
Yeah…
Maybe…
But you have to bear in mind the fact that 99% of Muslim minorities living in the UK (and France, Germany and the US for that matter) are Sunnis- many of whom are actually law-abiding secular citizen.
The (generally pro-Saudi) fundamentalists among them (called “Wahhabis†or “Salafisâ€Â), as well as the “ultra-fundamentalist†Al-Qaeda types who share the same objectives except the latter want to go faster are equally anti-Shiite and anti-Christian i.e. anti-Hezbollah and anti-Western at the same time…precisely because they hate both Iran and the West and their “idolatrous†(‘Al-Mushriq’) ways.
Which brings me to my next point: it is likely the alleged “Asian†plotters caught in London earlier today have absolutely nothing to do with Hezbollah or Lebanon- which won’t prevent Tony Snow to spin his usual Manichean hate-speech directed at gullible viewers “in the heartland†and other semi-literate sickos suffering from Neocon neurosis (remember Bush’s speeches on “our Saudi alliesâ€Â…).
As Lebanon burns for a crime it did not commit, the 6th “Israeli-Arab” war looks increasingly like a case of Persian chess vs. Neocon roulette.
One might ask: who really leveled Lebanon?
Israel?
Saudi Arabia?
Iran?
Or all of the above?
Several clues lead me to believe that the “pro-Western†puppet-government of Fuad Siniora (pro-Saudi Taliban in ties and suits would be a more fitting appellation…) wished (or shall I say plotted for?) the Neocon to flex their mighty muscles and help them “flush out the (allegedly pro-Iranian) Shiite scum†out of South Lebanon once and for all.
Problem is that you don’t kill an idea with clusters bombs: read Gary Brecher’s luminous article in the Exile to understand what tough cloth Hezbollah and their numerous followers are made of.
Destitute Shiite Muslims make up more than 40% of the Lebanese population: that would be like say “flushing out†the Irish working class from Massachusetts and New York circa 1890!
As I said earlier, the Siniora government and its Saudi protectors sincerely thought Cheney, Bolton & Co. would be happy to satisfy their monarchic good pleasure and get rid of those pesky Hezbollah lumpen-prolétaires for them.
Siniora (and president Chirac and King Saud with him) probably thought this could be done in a week time, with “surgical strikes†targeting exclusively Shiite villages in the south of the country: THAT was a tragic mistake.
In real life (i.e. outside of Arabia’s air-conditioned palaces), no one will do a dirty and expensive job on your behalf for free…!
“Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true†comes to mind…Ironically, this is an ancient Indo-Iranian proverb that the West imported from Persia long time ago- together with polo, chess, Satan and other ancient Asian niceties.
Just like the Faustian characters of old, Prime Minister Siniora is starting to freak out, for the Neocon devils have their own agenda and never intended to do bona fide donkey work for Beirut’s corrupt government in the first place!
Ethnic cleansing work in progress…
To be continued in the coming days….
Effective immediately, new rules for flying:
1. No carry-ons.
2. All clothing must be removed.
3. All body hair must be completely shaved off.
4. All orifices will be probed, inspected, and sealed with a TSA-approved tamper-evident seal.
…..unless of course you’re a muslim (or muslim-looking). Racial profiling and all that, you know. Wouldn’t want to upset their sensibilities. Let’s not be hasty.
Granny, get over here! You’re next in line for the body shaving!!
Of course Markos hasn’t missed a chance to show his ignorance and make an ass of himself.
Naked airline flights….
On one hand, there have been several women I’ve wanted to see naked. On the other hand, there have been women who the very thought of them naked has sent me into a thumb-sucking spasm of insanity, cured only by long hours of scotch drinking and banging my head against the bar in order to jar the thought loose.
Of course, if the TSA actually got smart and stopped strip-searching little old grandmothers from Davenport Iowa, and focused more on Middle Eastern men between the ages of 18 and 40, we wouldn’t even be having half the problems that we currently face. But then, we might OFFEND someone, and god knows that we can’t do that! Unless you’re a conservative, and in which case you shouldn’t even be allowed to fly, you jack-booted neonaziconreTHUGlican!
Hey Vic, when has Siniora made a public call for Hizbollah to stand down? Or for Nasrallah to call for an end to the rocketing? Ever? Why did he balk at a cease fire that would have allowed the continued removal of the Hizzys from So. Lebanon?
Now we know how many holes it takes to fill Doc Vic’s noggin. I’d love to tuu-uu-uurn yoo-ooo-uu ooooff…
Could someone get Dr. Vic back on his meds please?
TW: peace. I kid you not
Spiny Norman
Good lord, reading dementedunderground this early in the morning has me want to shower yet again
They actually think this is either a “Blair poodle” plot in concert with “Bu$hco” and/or it’s “*” fault because he has made America the target!
Aw, Vic, put a sock in it. You ramble like someone who’s had his brain scrambled by a hand mixer.
May I make a suggestion? If you’re going to stink the place up, do it with a short comment and a link–a link–back to your own blog instead of posting the whole goddam post in Jeff’s comments. You have your own blog. This one belongs to Jeff. Yours, Jeff’s. Yours, Jeff’s. See? There’s a difference.
tw: whore. Blog whore.
I see the other demented Doc has showed up
I do not friggin care is moderate moslems make up the vast majority of Islam.
THEY are clearly NOT IN CHARGE. Whether it is Hezbollah, Hamas, AQ, Al Asqa, Islamic Jihad or some Islamist shooting up Jews in Seattle, they are all on the same ideological page and they ARE connected by that anti-Western ideology and radical call to murder and mayhem.
Yeah, but then again those machines wouldn’t have been able to detect these guys, since the two ingredients were meant to be mixed after take-off.
Didn’t you see Superman III? That’s exactly how Supes killed off Richard Pryor’s supercomputer/MX missle guidance system/Atari 5200.
Hey Bushtards—all 33% of you –, have you looked under your bed for a terrorist this morning? Are you shitting your pants again?
Don’t forget to change your diapers today: the stench of cowardice is very strong.
Lamont won over Repugnicant-lite Lieberman. That is just a taste of things to come, you Neo-nazi BushShits.
Come November, you will weep.
In the meantime, assholes, keep on supporting an administration and a party that caters exclusively to 1% of the population: the super – rich. Of course, you are too dumb to realize that.
Ah yes….remind me again why the leftists are considered the “TOLERANT” and “CIVIL” ones? Clean up…aisle 5.
RE: “Devil’s Advocate”
Parody?
Who can tell anymore?
Oh, my! A Democrat won the Democrat primary! The unmitigated horror of it!
It’s over, neocons. Meet your new overlords.
President Howard Dean?
Parody? Is that you, Big E?
iT WAS TOO WLL SPELLED TO BE FOR REEAL. iT HAD TO BE A PARODY.
Sammler, the thing is a successful detonator can be made with stuff that you’d normally be allowed to bring on board. A similar scheme done by the North Koreans consisted of a pocket radio with a little bit of C4, and a bottle of PLX.
There has been a good bit of talk about “liquid explosives”; one interesting thing about PLX is that it’s a mixture of nitromethane and diethyl amine — two basically inert (toxic as all hell, but inert) liquid.
Mixed, however, they can be quite impressive.
Theblogs.net has been shut down?
It was 12 phones not 600!
LOL. So let me get this strate. Lederman get’s his teeth kick in, that prove’s the Iraq war was worng case close, and than all of a sudden Bush say’s there’s terrist’s? BUSH? HELLO? Dindh’t you dhinger’s even remember how there wasn’t any WMD’s? But now he’s teling the truth when his dhinger neocon freind Lederban teeth is kick in and it’s all over for Bush?
O sorry I forgot, dhinger’s is not relly reality base.
Hey dhinger’s why you all tlaking in here, isn’t Rush on.
Well, nobody else has said it, but anyone want to engage in some fruitless speculation about possible connections with the Iranian 8/22 agitation?
Let me ask you something, Jim.
Do you remember Operation Bojinka? Was that terrorist plot real?
Before you answer, you might want to note that it was in 1995.
Oh and I see you up there ahem you dhinger. Coming around are blog and acting all whatever. Big dhinger.
Lamont won over Repugnicant-lite Lieberman. That is just a taste of things to come, you Neo-nazi BushShits.
Er, so you’re saying that the “anti-Bush” (pro-Ignorance!) candidate eeked out 51.8% in a Democratic primary in a deep blue state is a harbinger of some sort of Democratic tital wave?
Oh, you can’t think to that level.
I forgot.
Sorry, dumbass.
Bush did not say that there were terrorists. The British did. The Bush administration is just repeating what they’ve been told about a British investigation.
Sheesh, talk about clueless.
C’mon, you guys, quit screwing with us. Jim’s a parody, right?
Right?
maddmatt sez:
No really, it was six hundred. But you have to read the WHOLE article to find that out:
So, I guess they must have one of those big family plans.
Do you remember the next bit of dialogue between Kyle Reese and Sarah Conner?
SC: “Can you stop it?”
KR: “I don’t know.”
That’s how I feel now. I don’t know if we can stop it because not enough people will take it seriously.
Turing Word: appeared, as in, I wonder if future histories will read, The strength and vitality of Western Civilization in the post-industrial age was not as solid as it appeared to be.”
Salafis are a branch of Sunni Islam.
Unless that’s the justification the plotters decide to throw out for PR consumption, in which case Dr. Vic will… blame Bush again. But for now, the al-Qaeda people urging solidarity with Hezbollah will be conveniently avoided.
tw: earth, as in some people should try living here.
I’ve said it before but it bears repeating. I just don’t understand the mindset that wishes to murder people just going about their daily lives.
I know I will catch shit for this, but when we catch people like this, we need to torture them to death over a long period of time. They need to feel the pain they wish to inflict on others. I don’t think anything else is going to get through to the next batch, and there will be a next batch as long as we treat them humanely.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I am tired of this.
So, we’re a few years into the Global War on Terror and we damn near had another 9/11. It seems to me that the prosecution of the war isn’t quite yielding the results promised.
For the Republicans, it’s almost too bad the plot didn’t come to fruition; they could have enjoyed a cowering media and frightened public, like in the days right after 9/11, just in time for the election season. They could have run one ad after another telling us how they’ve made us all safer…
Eventually, i think you’ll see the death of “carry on luggage” before we get to the “clothing optional flights.” Which is good because they have done x-ray and chemical scane of luggage since pre-9-11 days. Also, it’s bad enough sitting next to the really bloated grandmother who wants to talk all flight, but doing that and her being naked might make me turn my sobriety chip in.
TW: Feeling the fat guy in 3G’s hairy ass slide by as the navigates the asile is another potential downer.
“Besides ever sit beside a 300lb redneck from Birmingham in a tank top?”
Yo, Stephanie. Here in Nashville, we Chicago transplants don’t mind sitting next to 300lb rednecks from Birmingham. For one thing they’re mythical, unlike the “youths” of Dearborn and Bridgeview, Illinois, the missing “youths” from Egypt, or the arrested “youths” with the tracfones. If such 300 lbers do exist, they would probably be unfailingly polite, self-effacing, and unpretentious. They go to work, go to church, pay their taxes, and barbecue (pork) ribs. They love football and NASCAR. The quintessence of evil. However, they are very much unlike the liberal Chicagoans with whom I lived until I was 40 who were condescending, snobbish, and dismissive of people based upon their physical appearance or their Southern accent or their religious belief. Those liberals were unwilling, to judge anyone else’s physical appearance except to kowtow, shuffle, and genuflect to any creature that wasn’t pale-skinned, or to run in fear from “Asian” citizens who had Arabic accents. In the midst of Islamic terrorism, it’s still about the South isn’t it? I’m afraid that the only thing holding this country together are the Evangelicals. Take them out of the mix and dhimmitude completely overwhelms the Dems and bleeds into the Repubs. Israel would be flushed down the toilet; handgun banning (a la Chicago) would be rampant; and no one would ever be permitted to utter/write/or sign the word “Muslim.”
Would I have to pay extra for that or is this a complimentary TSA service?
An abiding characteristic of all murderous extremists is that they never tire of teaching those who won’t “take it seriously”. I have no fear that we will win in the end. There are, however, only two questions that remain unanswered.
1) How many innocents (westerners, Jews, non-Muslims, Muslims) will die before a majority “takes it seriously”?
and 2) given the inevitable blowback that will occur (because that majority won’t just “take it seriously”, they’ll “take it seriously” with a vengeance), how many innocents (Muslims, those who “look like” Muslims, Jews) will die?
JML wins Stupidest Post of the Month award, hands down, for his position that *almost* being attacked (and managing dozens of arrests instead)constitutes some sort of a failure.
Treacher is, as always, pithily hilarious on the matter.
Dammit Jeff, I accidentally read two whole paragraphs of Dr. Vic’s oral feces. I know I’m just a guest but pretty, pretty please can’t you configure things to show the author before the text…my eyes are burning and my brain is numb from the IQ points reading that crap stole from me.
I believe that JML is suggesting we need to start smacking the Islam out of young Brits. Or perhaps JML is making the argument for internment.
What is your solution, friend?
But, even if you caught al-Larry with a vial of acetone, al-Moe with a vial of hydrogen peroxide, and al-Curly with a detonator standing in the boarding line at Heathrow, do not, for Sully’s sake, waterboard them to find out who else was involved or whatever else might be planned.
In fact, I’m disgusted that you didn’t take this opportunity to clearly and unequivocally denounce torture.
WWND – What Would Ned Do?
Turing Word: want, as in, I want it, I want it, I want it, I want it, I want it …
Well, considering the terrorists were home grown British and the arrests were the result of a months long investigation, I certainly feel safer having 150,000 troops in Iraq.
Psst, happytalk, you forgot to include how the Limeys were asking for it because they too posted troops to Iraq.
And do try to work the Joos in somehow.
Apart from the amusing speculations about nude airtravel, the responses here seem to think the Democrats and liberals are against the war on terror. We’re rejoicing at the British police and MI-5 interception of this diabolical plot by extremists. International cooperation, vast networking of survaillance, surgical strikes on cells are the ways to win the war on terror. From 9/11 it has been clear this is not a battle between nations, but a police action against criminals not alligned with any flag. We have won nothing by putting our brave troops in the middle of a civil war in a country that had no ties to terrorism. That’s why Dems, and the VAST majority of American citizens, hate this Iraq war—it’s a simple-minded idea. Our country needs to do what WORKS to stop this threat, not the military-invasion fantasies of Neo-Con chicken hawks.
Marc Thompson,
Ahh, a police action. that worked so well under 8 years of Clinton – twin towers bomb 1, the USS Cole, Khobar Towers, etc.
Moreover, you like the intelligence and surveillance activities on the left? Since when? Or, wasn’t that all dems crying about the NSA intercepts, the SIFT program, etc.? How can you do surveillance and intelligence gathering without surveilling and intelligence gathering?
That’s the problem with libs, talking out of both sides of their mouth.
Oh, and before you call me a chickenhawk – I’ve served, more than one term. So, based on your use of the term “chickenhawk”, you must believe the corollary, which is that anyone who served must be listened to and obeyed? Right? Right? Otherwise, the chickenhawk meme is awful hypocritical of you.
TW “greater”. For the greater good of the country, liberals must be defeated at every turn.
– GB
I doubt we’ll have clothing-optional flights. I’m betting on:
Full strip/cavity searches plus X-rays
One-size-fits-all paper suits plus Depends
Strapped into your seat for the flight duration
Sort of like the flight in U.S. Marshalls. But not as friendly.
TW: south, as in, The folks I met in the South were unfailingly polite, courteous and friendly.
Marc – who is a chickenhawk?
I think your strange characterizations in the rest of your post speak for themselves – I will let them eloquently show your…uh, weltanschauung.
So it’s back to the 90’s eh? Nothing scares a state sponsor of terror like a criminal prosecution of expendable agents. I am sure the Iranians would quake in fear and cease all activites in support of terrorism – Please, not an arrest warrant, aieee!
In response to Great Banana:
Yes: covert international co-operative police action worked very well under Clinton. The dramatic proliferation of terrorist attacks since the Iraq War—Spain, London, Phillipines, Bali—points to the way our unilateral invasion fostered more. But I’m not an apologist for Clinton. I’m for what kills these monsters and keeps us free. A land war (although Afghanistan demanded one, I agree) isn’t working.
And NO Democrat is against survaillance and covert operations WITHIN THE SCOPE OF OUR CONSTITUTION. If Bush had used the FISA courts (as he lied and said he was), got court and Congressional approval for tracking your phone calls for instance, there would be little outcry on his abuse of power.
I salute your service to our country. I myself come from a family of lifer Marines—four brothers, all Vets. All Democrats. All liberals. All opposed to this administration. It is NOT a logical “corallary”, however, to assume that a veteran should be “be listened to and obeyed”—otherwise you’d have to listen to and obey the hundreds of current Vets crying for a cecessation to the war in Iraq. BUT, a combat Vet has more credibility, should be listened to and considered with MORE respect than a draft-dodging alcoholic coke-addled frat boy who barely passed through Yale on his daddy’s ticket—as an example.
We both LOVE this country, that’s clear. Let’s do what WORKS to keep us safe and free.
That’s just wrong.
Marc: I’ll just say that that’s a point on which reasonable people may disagree. Everything I’ve read so indicates that your assertion is unlikely, to say the least. I have no idea what you read.
tw: left. What are you, TW, a smartass or something?
So, we’re a few years into the Global War on Terror and we damn near had another 9/11. It seems to me that the prosecution of the war isn’t quite yielding the results promised.
Yes dumbass!!!!
You “got” it!
Because by God, never having an attack or plot attempted is now the benchmark for success!
You fucking idiots are literally unbelievable in your stupidty.
Nonsense. Since 1979 we’ve known that there
is a fundamentalist Islamic movement with full religious and political support in certain countries (Iran), off and on tacit support and cooperation in others (Syria, Iraq), and tacit, look-the-other-way neglect in others (Egypt and Saudi Arabia). The US responded in bipartisan fashion by electing to use police actions and status quo “realpolitik” which had, as a consequence, the propping up of despotisms across the region that only served to fuel the growing islamofascist fire.
It is NOT enough to rely upon police intervention because the police cannot possibly be 100% effective and the terrorists (and yes, their state sponsors) need only be right once in an era of proliferation of the technology of weapons of mass destruction.
Ironically, it is the policy prescriptions of the Left (i.e. police actions, occassional cruise missile strikes, an appeasement and accomodation with rogue, fundamentalist states like Iran) which dramatically increases the risk of full blown hostilities with mass civilian casualties because it increases the risk of successful WMD strike against the American homeland. And when that happens, all the bleatings and mewlings from the pantywaiste Left will not be enough to stop the righteous rage from a suddenly quite awake American populace. Regardless of which party holds the White House.
The Bush gambit in Iraq is all about forestalling that doomsday scenario by transforming the middle east. It is a daunting, long range, not-sure-to-succeed undertaking made all the more difficult by the insane rants of BDS sufferers. But its still far more humane and yes, liberal, than anything the Left has on offer.
Sorry about the bandwidth, Jeff. I should get my own blog.
Apart from the amusing speculations about nude airtravel, the responses here seem to think the Democrats and liberals are against the war on terror. We’re rejoicing at the British police and MI-5 interception of this diabolical plot by extremists.
Um, really?
Care to explain the denial going on at the Daily Kos and DU then?
vast networking of survaillance
Hilarious.
Coming from the crowd who can’t stop alleging the NSA program is “illegal.”
We have won nothing by putting our brave troops in the middle of a civil war in a country that had no ties to terrorism
Total delusion.
I dare you to support that with actual evidence, idiot.
Kyle,
The failure here is obviously a failure to win hearts and minds. I thought that was one of the central aims of the War on Terror. Does it not bother you that another catastrophic attack was planned? What do you think that says about the strategies that America is pursuing? Sooner or later, one of these plots will succeed. It’s a numbers game and we lose.
Pablo,
I don’t know that there is any one solution. I think our bungling in the Middle East these last few years has only added fuel to a fire that has been burning for a long time.
It’s easy to promote ideas like “smacking the Islam out of young Brits,” but how the hell would we do that if we wanted to?
Unfortunately, I think terrorism is going to be part of the “new normal.” Terrorism as a means to achieve a political end or to simply infilict damage and death can be carried out by virtually anybody, anywhere, at any time. I think we’re going to see a lot more of this in the decades ahead as more and more people fight over the same lands and fight for ever dwindling resources.
Does it not bother you that another catastrophic attack was planned? What do you think that says about the strategies that America is pursuing?
Um, idiot, THE SAME EXACT PLOT WAS PLANNED IN 1995.
Care to explain that?
Liberalism:
Each day, history is anew!
Fuck off.
the responses here seem to think the Democrats and liberals are against the war on terror. We’re rejoicing at the British police and MI-5 interception of this diabolical plot by extremists
From the Daily Kos:
You must really enjoy your stupidity.
Does it not bother you that another catastrophic attack was planned? What do you think that says about the strategies that America is pursuing?
I suggest you look up these dates, jerkoff:
October 12, 2000.
June 25, 1996.
August 7, 1998.
February 26, 1993.
By the way you ignorants have breathlessly assured us for 5 + years Clinton “foiled the millenium plot.”
Does that bother you!!???
Marc,
I’m sure you had the same respect for servicemembers when considering whether to vote for cobat vets G.H.W. Bush or Dole vs. the draft dodging clinton. And, how you define Clinton’s alleged “police action” that had absolutely no results and led directly to 9/11, based on what OBL said, is beyond me. You may love a country, I’m not sure it is the same one that I love though. And your argument about wanting intelligence gathering or surviellance w/in the consititution is laughable. How is NSA – wiretaps outside the U.S., or SWIFT, again outside the U.S., have anything to do with the U.S. Constit? Why were the libs crying about it? What constitutional means would any lib support in practice? We have found none so far.
You make assertions based on no facts and have beliefs that are simply incomprehendable when the facts are actually reviewed. But, like all libs, I’m sure you can rationalize it away.
And, there may be hundreds of servicemembers who want to end our actions in Iraq, but the vast majority of servicemembers support it. And, the vast majority of the military is conservative. So, therefore you should support the Iraq war.
And, you are a hypocrity. If you throw around the term chickenhawk – you are claiming that someone who did not serve cannot have an opinion. thus, unless you are an absolute hypocrity and an idiot, you must believe that only servicemembers can have opinions. I’m all for limiting all voting only to those who served. Are you? If not, drop the idiotic chickenhawk meme, b/c you won’t back it up with action.
tw “children” – for our children’s future’s sake, we must defeat liberals at every turn.
– GB
not the military-invasion fantasies of Neo-Con chicken hawks.
Er, I don’t see you in Kabul there coward.
Funny that, huh?
apparently, based on my last post, “hypocrity” is now a word. You must all use “hypocrity” in a sentance in your next post.
tw “complete” – if you don’t complete this assignment, you will feel the wrath of the great banana.
Ummm yeah… veteran here too, Marc. Got a couple of middle-east tours under my belt.
Fact is, we will probably always have terrorists… there will always be some moron who wants to spray bullets in a marketplace. What we have to do is keep it small: take away their state sponsorship, cut off their money, deny them safe haven anywhere in the world, and smack-down the people who are training/motivating/teaching them.
If this means we arrest/deport Imams who are preaching violent jihad, then I’m all for it. If this means we confiscate their bank accounts, and track/attack systems whereby they move cash, sign me up. If this means we pressure governments to either give them up or risk being sanctioned/toppled? Booyah.
We cannot permit state sponsors to create their own proxy forces of extremists to attack and kill innocent citizens… they have to go down for that.
These buggers have been blowing up Americans and other innocent civilians for 20-30 years, and the law enforcement model was NOT cutting it. You think it worked well under Clinton? WTC 1, Khobar towers, the Cole, 80% of the preparation for 9/11…
It was long past time for a different tack.
draft-dodging alcoholic coke-addled frat boy who barely passed through Yale on his daddy’s ticket
Wow… talk about giving the game away. Since you’re into making things up and/or believing thinly-sourced smears like that (all to support your worldview, natch), I don’t hold much hope that we’ll get more of a reasonable discussion from you.
God, I hope no one’s phone was tapped.
“draft-dodging alcoholic coke-addled frat boy who barely passed through Yale on his daddy’s ticket”
I assume that also means you must despise the various Kennedys around today – Ted, his son, etc. I mean, if you feel that strongly about people trading on their daddy’s / brother’s / family’s names, getting into schools as legacies, and being addicts, you have to hate the Kennedys.
Or, do you get a free pass once you’ve killed a woman drinking and driving, driving off a bridge, and purposefully leaving her to die?
Marc Thomson wrote:
Yes, quite dramatic.
Consider:
Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines beheaded an American tourist in June 2001.
The Bali bombing that killed 200 and injured another 200 occurred in October, 2002.
Bush invaded Iraq, on March 20, 2003.
Yes, that’s quite a dramatic increase in terrorism because of Bush’s invasion of Iraq.
So, police actions don’t stop terrorist threats to this country.
So, military actions against Iraq don’t stop terrorist threats to this country.
But at least the military actions kill and maim thousands of our soldiers.
So that’s a good thing now?
GB,
You don’t understand the term “chickenhawk”. Here’s a primer.
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/07/what-makes-someone-chicken-hawk.html#links
And NO Democrat is against survaillance and covert operations WITHIN THE SCOPE OF OUR CONSTITUTION. If Bush had used the FISA courts (as he lied and said he was), got court and Congressional approval for tracking your phone calls for instance, there would be little outcry on his abuse of power
Er, every court that has ruled on the matter has said the President’s authority in this area can’t be constrained.
Every
Single
One
GB,
You don’t understand the term “chickenhawkâ€Â. Here’s a primer.
I hope that was a joke.
Seriously.
Wow.
Fuck off.
(I know this isn’t making a dent in their granite-filled heads. I just like telling them to fuck off whenever they say chickenhawk.)
TW: fuck
off
JML:
So far, it’s been a numbers game and we’ve managed to hold our own. Are you suggesting we surrender?
As for ‘hearts and minds’, of course that is what this is all about: you can’t bomb ideas out of existence. They have to be replaced by better ideas. Other than doping people up and brainwashing them, how do you convey an idea? We’re trying one way. It may or may not be the right one and it may or may not succeed, but it’s worth a try.
By freeing the Iraqis and helping them establish a democracy, we’re hoping to succeed in the court of ideas. It’s a lot of work requiring great sacrifice on everyone’s part. We may not know for years if we managed to spark a flame of democratic thought in the Middle East. Think Vietnam. Today, they love us, but it wasn’t always so. The world had to suffer through a lot of pain to get to this point.
There’s no perfect way to go about anything in life. You give it your best shot. And it doesn’t happen overnight. The Left wants instant results. There are no instant results. If everything was as clear and easy as you suggest, don’t you think it would have been done already?
TheNewGuy: Thank you!
The dramatic proliferation of terrorist attacks since the Iraq Warâ€â€Spain, London, Phillipines, Baliâ€â€points to the way our unilateral invasion fostered more.
Really?
pp. 147-48 9/11 Commission Final Report
Robert,
I like it when people attempt to re-define words. It’s fun stuff. But, we both know that is not what is meant by chickenhawk when leftists use it. And, it has not been the definition of chickenhawk for the decades of the term’s existence as a term of derision against a political opponent.
And, it appears to me that what we have been doing since 9/11 has worked, if you define working as stopping terrorist attacks on american soil.
Frankly, my belief is that we will have to engage in real (total) war with Iran / Syria and likely Saudi Arabia and maybe Pakistan before all is said and done in order to put an end to islamofascism. Only time will tell.
tw “knew” – I knew this guy from Nantucket . . .
Great Banana:
No, I’m not pro-Kennedy and I despise their personal excesses as much as Bush’s sordid past. Yes, I voted for decorated war heroes in the past—Like John Kerry. Yes, I’ll admit some liberal blogs are suspicious of the latest arrests—some libs are wrong, and I’m sure you don’t agree with all conservatives. Obviously, since you served, you are not a chickenhawk—unlike Bush and Rumsfeld who ignore the advice of seasoned generals and disrespect the uniforms they wear.
But don’t set up a “false dilemma”—it’s one thing to respect, listen and consider the views of a Vet on issues of war over those who have not served, but to leap to idea that they should therefore be obeyed and be the only ones to vote is quite absurd. Surely, you know some idiot Vets, and there are some smart civilians as well. Stop inventing arguments you can win. Again—this is a unique war and demands unique tactics to succeed. Kill the monsters in their beds like Moussad’s vengance on the Munich kidnappers, infiltrate, AND when a nation like Afghanistan alligns with Al Qeda—take them out in a land war.
The dramatic proliferation of terrorist attacks since the Iraq Warâ€â€Spain, London, Phillipines, Baliâ€â€points to the way our unilateral invasion fostered more.
Again, I suggest you look up these dates, jerkoff:
October 12, 2000.
June 25, 1996.
August 7, 1998.
February 26, 1993.
Again, you ignorants have breathlessly assured us for 5 + years Clinton “foiled the millenium plot.â€Â
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