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Everything old is new again

Looks like Hezbollah is borrowing a page from the Think Progress playbook.

I know.  I’m as shocked as you are.  Because—as I’ve been reminded repeatedly by a host of helpful left-leaning commenters whenever I mention that such propaganda efforts have the potential to undermine liberalism and provide rhetorical cover for Islamists and their terror offshoots—the anti-war left’s rhetoric has no tangible effects, and suggesting that it does is just my rightwing way of CHILLING DISSENT! 

They’re just words, after all. Which are like, you know—fluffy floaty things!  And can’t harm anyone!

(Except minorities and other protected species.  Which is NOT a double standard.  Please consult your handbook / Townhouse email for a plausible explanation of the differences.  Thanks, and don’t forget to give to Ned Lamont).

100 Replies to “Everything old is new again”

  1. OHNOES says:

    B-b-b-but… the brown people HAVE to be telling the truth. Everyone knows that the only liars and manipulators are JOOOOOOOOOS!

    And Karl Rove

  2. Dan Collins says:

    Also, see Scott Burgess’s very amusing debunking from several months ago:

    http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_daily_ablution/2005/11/indy_uncritical.html

  3. TODD says:

    Bummer, dead crispy brown people, must be chemicals…….

  4. Semanticleo says:

    ’Faith-Based’ Triangulations

    Since the Neocons have been tacitly admitting Iraq is a failure, numerous world events indicate

    that ‘Democracy’ for the middle east was a trojan horse of apocolyptic dimensions.

    All the talk about ‘blood for oil’ or contracts for WH crony businesses is small potatoes.

    It’s not about money. It’s about power. It’s about preserving what some consider their

    paradise on earth, their pastoral existence. Oh, it’s also about money, because what good is

    paradise if you don’t have the shekels to enjoy it with. But wealth is just the subset; the icing on the cake. The real meal is preserving your own version of ‘status quo’.

    It is a Grand Vision which sees no defeat in the wrong-headed venture into Iraq. It’s a

    Win/Win situation for the architects of regime change in the Middle East. ‘It was necessary

    to destroy the Tigris and Euphrates in order to preserve it’ would be an apt eptitaph for

    the Trojan Horse of ‘Democracy’ in the Middle East.

    If democracy were successful-Victory. If it was not successful-Victory. So says David Frum in the following excerpt from yesterdays’ NRO;

    “Hands up, everybody who believes that the “hundreds” of troops that the Pentagon plans to move from the rest of Iraq into Baghdad will suffice to secure the capital against the sectarian militias now waging war upon the civilian populations of the city? Anybody? No, I didn’t think so.

    To take back the capital from the militias that now terrorize it will take thousands, not hundreds, of American plus tens of thousands of Iraqis. . . . So a real plan for success in Baghdad will have to be built upon additional troops from out of area, potentially raising US troop levels back up to the 150,000 or so of late 2005.

    Manifestly, neither the administration nor the Congress will contemplate such a move. Which means, most likely, continuing violence in Iraq and a continuing rise in the power of the militias, especially the Iranian-backed Shiite militias: the Hezbollah of Iraq.”

    Note the subtle reference to Hezbollah, satellite military arm of Iran.

    Is it a coincidence that Israel mounted a major military operation into Lebanon after 3 Israeli soldiers were kidnapped? Is it a coincidence that we no longer need to base

    Air/Ground support in Turkey? Do we any longer need to ask flyover permission from a foreign country? If we were not intending something beyond Iraq, why spend hundreds of millions on

    a super fortress citadel there?

    No, I suspect, and there is ample evidence from recent history, that there was always another

    agenda on the table with the extremists within our own ranks. Dare I say, the Jewish

    connection, with reference to these events? Why is the FBI continuing it’s investigation of

    the Israeli spy network, focusing on a Mr X? Is Doug Feith the ‘person of interest’?

    Take a moment and read the following Rolling Stone article, and draw your own conclusions.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/10962352/iran_the_next_war

  5. BumperStickerist says:

    Jeff forgets his history, religion and film:

    Israel Deploys Ark of the Covenant

    Even as we speak Janes Defense Weekly is contacting religious authorities throughout the world to get specifications.

    Also, if you take a look at the battle maps, you’d notice that prior to each battle a team of Israeli soldiers equipped with rams horns circles Hizzbulah positions seven times.

    The press doesn’t report it because of the religious angle.

    .

  6. Dan Collins says:

    Semanticleo–

    Go read Captain Ed’s dissection of that Rolling Stone article and draw your own f-ing conclusions.

  7. Dan Collins says:

    Also, take a look in the publicity photo of the writer’s wiki.  Any chance he might be a friend of Larry Johnson?

  8. Semanticleo says:

    A ‘Beastly’ Revelation

    The Neocons have been loathe, in past years, to mingle their ‘intellectual’ perogotives with the Religious Right’s view of Israel.

    That religious view has been unabashedly pro-Israel because it sees the fulfillnment of their

    version of 72 Virgins and the concomitant bliss of the afterlife, as an immutable result in pushing the politcal buttons necessary to realize their heavenly aspirations.

    Unfortunately, for the rest of us, those ‘good times’ must be preceded by the End Times, which are nothing short of spectaclarly brutal for the participants in earthly endeavors.

    Bill Kristol, perhaps the ‘tip of the spear’ for WingNut Nation, signals a new trend in

    the NeoCon worldView in this Standard piece:

    http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/433fwbvs.asp

    A tidbit;

    “What’s happening in the Middle East, then, isn’t just another chapter in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What’s happening is an Islamist-Israeli war. You might even say this is part of the Islamist war on the West–but is India part of the West? Better to say that what’s under attack is liberal democratic civilization, whose leading representative right now happens to be the United States. . . .”

    This phased osmosis over to the religious right’s view that we should support Israel at any cost, is the flip-side of the Shia cosmology, wherein we don’t merely exacerbate a clash of culture, but instigate it to advance the prophecies which originate from this region of the world. Just as Iranian radical sheiks wish to hurry along their paradisacial conclusion to Human History, now we seem to be signing on to the ultimate Tea Party.

  9. McGehee says:

    I can’t wait to read the CatFancy article about Social Security reform.

  10. Dan Collins says:

    Hmmmmm.  Whereas the left has been loathesome.

  11. Semanticleo says:

    Collinsworth;

    Any chance you might look for fire when you smell smoke?

  12. Dan Collins says:

    McGehee–

    I like the “inside the Vatican” analysis at High Times, personally.

  13. ahem says:

    Semantic: Boy, they can’t get anything past you, can they?

    Yeah, Dan. Ed is one of the very best.

  14. The Left does “dissent”, the Right does “counter-jihad”: it’s that simple.

  15. ahem says:

    Semantic: So you can get your head that far up your ass? Color me impressed.

  16. Dan Collins says:

    Gee, Sinsimilla, what smoke would that be?  The smoke issuing out of Bumbast’s ears?  Love the Thai stick centerfold.

  17. Great Banana says:

    Cleo,

    Shhh. You have unearthed an ancient, well-guarded and destructive secret.  My neocon breathren and I want to end the world.  We could have just had our puppet Bush launch a few nuclear missles at China and Russia, but we want to be much more subtle than that.  So, we are having Isreal fight Hezbollah in Lebanon.

    Shhhh – don’t give the game away, you might stop the apocalypse that we have worked so hard to forment.  I have passed your name to the Illuminati, so they may be paying you a visit through the normal freemason channels.

    Indeed, the head Freemason in this country, Ralph Nader (who we had run to ensure W’s victory in 2000), is probably going to visit you himself.

    Star seven, seven – seven, pearl white.

    – GB

  18. TODD says:

    Sematicleo

    Ok we are impressed you know how to copy and paste…Now the real question:

    What is your solution Jack?

    Also, you need to relax a little….

  19. B Moe says:

    We are seeing abnormal burns, different from wars we’ve seen in the past. The corpses of these victims are shrinking to half their normal size. You think it is the corpse of a child at first but it turns out to be a grown man,” said Raed Salman Zeinedine, director of Tyre Government Hospital.

    Are there any chemicals in existences that can shrink a corpse, bones and all, to half its normal size?  Where do they come up with this shit?

  20. McGehee says:

    Also, you need to relax a little….

    Todd’s right, Semi. Unclench, or you’ll cut off blood flow to your brain.

  21. schoolmarm says:

    For all those lefty trolls out there in web world who write really long posts I have a special offer … you get locked up in the inner sanctum of the House of Horrors for a week. I have not worked out all the details yet but it will involve my always hungry Rhodesian Ridgeback. I will guarantee by the week’s end you will be cured of all your excess verbiage.

  22. Verc says:

    Jumpin’ Jeebus on a nuclear PoGo stick, keeping in mind that you just quoted Rolling-freaking-Stone as an authority, let’s check it out.

    Yep, AIPAC, Chalabi, Feith, Chalabi, AIPAC, Chalabi, it’s all there.

    Pollari [Italian. ed] had informed the Bush administration that Saddam Hussein had obtained uranium from West Africa—a key piece of false intelligence that Bush used to justify the invasion of Iraq.

    Sigh. BRITISH INTELLIGENCE. And it was sought, not obtained. AND Saddam HAD hundreds tons of yellowcake uranium inside Iraq. This shit isn’t hard, man. It really fucking isn’t. But if you can’t get the littlest details right, no dice on the rest.

    Ghorbanifar suggested funding the overthrow of the Iranian government using hundreds of millions of dollars in cash supposedly hidden by Saddam Hussein. He even hinted that Saddam was hiding in Iran.

    In December of 2001!!! Saddam Hussein hiding in I-freaking-RAN. And you swallow that load like a good pivot girl for this Rolling Stones circle-jerk. 

    Saddam, the “secular”, “Sunni” leader of a country that went to war for ten years with Iran which killed one million people, and used chemical weapons, cooperating with the [Shia] Islamic Republic? My word, I say pish-posh to you, good sir! Eh, and BEFORE he “stepped down” from power?

    There had better be a damn good quote or some evidence. BUT I bet 90% of Rolling Stone readers pretty much unhinged their jaws and took it in raw. Them being sophisticated enough to balance two thoughts which contradict each other explicitly and nod up and down like they were bobbing for cock.

    I guess I’ll have to wait until the next month’s Hustler to get my rebuttal going to your Rolling-Freaking-Stone.

  23. McGehee says:

    Coming soon: a cut-and-paste of an article about extraordinary renditions, published in Tiger Beat.

  24. Spiny Norman says:

    Semanticleo,

    Any chance you might look for fire when you smell smoke?

    So the most lurid conspiracies are what you immediately gravitate to. Occam’s Razor is like Kryptonite to your side, isn’t it?

    BTW, this cherished anti-Christian “Progressive” myth:

    The Neocons have been loathe, in past years, to mingle their ‘intellectual’ perogotives with the Religious Right’s view of Israel.

    That religious view has been unabashedly pro-Israel because it sees the fulfillnment of their version of 72 Virgins and the concomitant bliss of the afterlife, as an immutable result in pushing the politcal buttons necessary to realize their heavenly aspirations.

    …is utter nonsense.

  25. Semanticelo says:

    “What is your solution Jack?”

    Typical WingNut Nation retort.

    “Now that we’ve contributed to the

    oily stain on the carpet, what are YOU

    going to do about it?

    The real question is; when are the scales going to fall off your eyes?

  26. Verc says:

    when are the scales going to fall off your eyes?

    When my Mizunos finally make their way to your tonsils from your rectum. Just my prediction. Requires alot of work, with the running start and total body workout, whupping your moron-icity.

  27. BumperStickerist says:

    This phased osmosis over to the religious right’s view that we should support Israel at any cost, is the flip-side of the Shia cosmology, wherein we don’t merely exacerbate a clash of culture, but instigate it to advance the prophecies which originate from this region of the world

    Ummm, my understanding is that we neocons support Israel’s RIGHT TO EXIST at any cost –

    knocking back the Hezbollah twenty-to-thirty kilometers so they can’t set off unguided rockets towards Israel is something that I, as a neocon, thoroughly support.  Laud even.

    Think of it this way, if Hezbollah declares that it upped the range of the Katushyas to 75 kilometers, I think Israel should just gas up the tanks and go a bit further – the UN and Arab Street be damned.

    If, however, Israel were to declare that it needs room to grow or more natural resources and does a land grab, then I do not support Israel.

    .

  28. Semanticleo says:

    “whupping your moron-icity”

    And that’s what is left of your ‘argument’.

    Too bad the lizard brain dominates your cerebral

    cortex.  But, your intellectual curiosity remains

    in a high state of readiness by comparison

  29. Squid says:

    Cleo, baby, I’ve been a fan for a long time.  Your usual antics around here are charming, in their own disturbing way.  But today’s Revelation- and Rolling Stone-based rant?  I fear you’ve really come unglued this time.

    Now, I’m telling you this as a friend: one pill, three times a day is good.  Ten pills twice a week is very, very bad.  You have to follow the instructions on the label.  It’s important!

  30. T-Web says:

    Semanticleo–So let’s see here. In recent years, radical Muslims have attacked liberal societies or non-Muslims around the world, including in the U.S., Spain, England, India, the Philippines, the Netherlands, Sudan, Israel, Bali, and East Timor. (That’s just off the top of my head–I’m sure I’m missing some.)

    Next, someone says these attacks might not spring from only localized grievances, but are connected through a common ideology held by their perpetrators.

    Somehow you see that statement as the manifestation of a nefarious plot by Jews and Zionists.

    I tend to shy away from making charges of anti-Semitism, but I think this is a pretty clear-cut case.

    That, or you’re droolingly stupid.

    Or both.

  31. McGehee says:

    Semi, seriously now.

    Do you have a point—other than “YOU’RE WRONG AND YOU’RE STUPID AND ALL YOU CAN DO TO ANSWER ME IS HURL INSULTS!!!”

    Not that I have a problem with that if it is your point—but sooner or later you’ve just gotta recognize the irony.

  32. ahem says:

    Semantic: I’ll cut this up into little pieces for you so you can understand.

    1) Contrary to that the left believes, the American right is not supporting Israel for religious reasons. It is supporting Israel because Israel is a western democracy that is being threatened by radical Islam–an enemy common to all democracies.

    2) If Islamism prevails, it will be a disaster of the highest order with dire consequences for the entire world.

    3) The US will go to bat for any western democracy that requires our help–not just Israel.

    4) One can have great faith in the basic virtue of the US and its power to help people without being a religious fanatic. Keep your nihilism to yourself.

    5) To assure a peaceful world is a hell of a lot of work, sometimes quite unpleasant. You think the last 60 years of relative calm weren’t paid for?

    6) If we’re going to throw our hands up and piss ourselves at the first sign of trouble, we’d better kill ourselves now and get it over with.

    7) You’ve got plenty of scales in your own eyes, kiddo. For someone who’s so intellectually undemanding, you sure have some strong opinions.

  33. Great Banana says:

    Cleo,

    The scales have fallen off my eyes.  Now that you have demonstrated through your brilliant prose that neocons want the apocalypse, I have no more scales and realize that all conservatives are evil and that Bush is the devil.

    Now, what is the right foriegn policy that we should have?

    – GB

  34. Brendan says:

    AND Saddam HAD hundreds tons of yellowcake uranium inside Iraq.

    Dude, I read this article in Kerrang! that says he totally didn’t.

  35. Semanticleo says:

    )” Contrary to that the left believes, the American right is not supporting Israel for religious reasons. It is supporting Israel because Israel is a western democracy that is being threatened by radical Islam–an enemy common to all democracies.”

    Ahem.  And I mean…Ahem!

    1.) What do you use to support the view that

    “the American right is not supporting Israel for

    religious reasons?  What part of the right?  The right, in general, or the religious right to which I referred?

    2.)Agreed

    3.)It all depends

    4.)Impossibly naive

    4.)Your definition of relative calm?

    6.)Agreed

    7.)Agreed.

    Now if you will address the issues of;

    1.)Citadel Fortress in Iraq.

    2.)Israel’s response to military kidnappings

    and tepid US response to UN and civilian deaths.

    3.)Neocons admitting Iraq is failure while

    pounding the war drum on Iran and Syria

  36. RTO Trainer says:

    Semanticleo,

    When wil you check yourpremises?  You come to a uber of conclusions, but the support for them isn’t there. 

    Nothing about religion in the Kristol quote.

    Nothing about win-win in the Frum quote.

    You don’t communicate well, just a lot.  Quantity isn’t quality, dude.

    On what are you supporting any of your contentions, because it certainly isn’t displayed in any of the lines of text you’ve wasted so far.

    To the one assertion you made which you didn’t try to prop up with something unrelated:  It’s most certainly not about “status quo.” It’s deliberatly and forcefully about the opposite.

    It’s about a rejection of the old cold-war notion that stability was the goal and the guarantors of that stability, so long as they were also not Communist, were to be dealt with softly, no matter what their “record” was.

    Sometimes to avoid the explosion, or the really big explosion, it’s necessary to release some pressure, not just continue to cork it up.

  37. ultraloser says:

    Ahem:  nicely done.

  38. Semanticleo says:

    “The scales have fallen off my eyes”

    Not quite yet.  The neocons don’t believe in

    the Apocolypse, but have hitched their wagons to

    the religious right, who do.  The religous right

    see themselves as a catalyst to increase the momentum toward the end times, as do their antithesis, the radical Shia Ayatollahs. That

    triumvirate has the keys to the ignition.  You’re all telling me that doesn’t scare the shit out of

    you?  Must be the scales.

  39. The Ace says:

    The religous right

    see themselves as a catalyst to increase the momentum toward the end times

    Source that please.

  40. McGehee says:

    You’re all telling me that doesn’t scare the shit out of you?  Must be the scales.

    Or maybe it’s the we don’t believe in the apocalypse and shit that keeps us from being scared.

    Or is that what you mean by scales?

  41. Great Banana says:

    Semanticleo,

    you have to be the most idiotic commentator on any number of blogs that I have been to.  It must come from the poetry you try to write.

    You state:  “The religous right

    see themselves as a catalyst to increase the momentum toward the end times, as do their antithesis, the radical Shia Ayatollahs. That

    triumvirate has the keys to the ignition.”

    Please, cite to me a reputable source for this info.

    As always, you are full of stupid talking points that are not only not backed up by any facts or citations (rolling stone does not count), but are in fact normally belied by the actual facts.

    And, try to learn how to write a clear, concise sentance that gets to the point.  Your ridiculous ramblings might seem creative to you, but are really insufferable and normally make whatever point you are trying to make indecipherable.

    Claiming those of us who disagree with whatever point you are trying to make have scales over our eyes is not an argument, it is not persuasive, and does not demonstrate that you know something of import that we don’t.  It just shows that you have the maturity level of a 15 year old who recently heard a saying about scales falling from one’s eyes, thought it was really clever, and so keep repeating it.

  42. Squid says:

    Cleo, what you call “scales” the rest of us call “reasoned judgement” or “healthy scepticism.”

    When a group wages war for over thirty years, consistently raising the stakes and the intensity of their attacks, one does not need to be a Rapture fan to say enough is enough and put an end to that long-growing threat.  One merely needs to decide that the threat needs to be removed by active means, because it won’t go away on its own.

    One might go so far as to say that those who come to this conclusion have had the scales removed from their eyes.

  43. RTO Trainer says:

    1.)Citadel Fortress in Iraq.

    2.)Israel’s response to military kidnappings and tepid US response to UN and civilian deaths.

    3.)Neocons admitting Iraq is failure while pounding the war drum on Iran and Syria

    1.  What “Citidel Fortress” in Iraq?

    2.  What do you want to know?  If they allow the kidnappings to go unchallenged, aren’t more kidnappings likley?  US response appears “tepid” to you for reasons I explained earlier about releaseing pressure to avoid the bigger bang later.

    3.  What admission of failure?

  44. Spiny Norman says:

    The neocons don’t believe in the Apocolypse, but have hitched their wagons to the religious right, who do.  The religous right see themselves as a catalyst to increase the momentum toward the end times, as do their antithesis, the radical Shia Ayatollahs.

    Are you going to provide a link for that myth? I’ve already provided one that debunks it.

  45. Semanticleo says:

    ’If Islamism prevails, it will be a disaster of the highest order with dire consequences for the entire world.”

    “Sometimes to avoid the explosion, or the really big explosion, it’s necessary to release some pressure, not just continue to cork it up.”

    Ahem and RTO;

    In a vacuum, your points are well made.  We just

    differ on the method.  This is a participatory

    democracy.  It has been said that within 20 years

    every free-election society gets the government it deserves.  We don’t deserve to be lied to for our own good.  When an elite group within a democracy

    has a hidden agenda that they wish to promulgate,

    but their sense is it will not be supported unless framed with careful informational control,

    that could be called a ‘silent coup’.  This is

    acountry where, for good or for ill, we make the

    decisions that propel our future.  The current

    chaos that reigns is due to the hijacking of the

    electorate through manipulation of data, so that

    the People would support action on Iraq.  Once in,

    they knew it would be easy to stay until done.

    That’s not how it’s supposed to work.

  46. stoo says:

    This obsession with the Religous Right seems unhealthy, to me.  Did a preist turn you down when you were young?

  47. AFKAF says:

    The religous right

    see themselves as a catalyst to increase the momentum toward the end times…

    Not sure who you are referring to by “religious right”, pal.  Orthodox jews?  Unitarians who favor lower taxes and oppose FMA?

    I’ll speak for myself: born and raised evangelical Baptist, coverted to Roman Catholicism.  Never ONCE have I considered my support of the concept of the sovereign nation of Israel defending itself against those who would exterminate them to be motivated by a desire to hasten the return of Jesus Christ.  Not once. 

    Never heard anyone else mention that as a reason for supporting the right of people to live free of daily murderous terror attacks either.  Not from the pulpit.  Not in the pot luck suppers in the community room, either.  Nor in the “afterglow” bible studies in people’s private homes.  Not.Once.Ever.

    I’ve read on the internet about tiny fringe groups that relocate to Israel from the states because they’ve got some wack-ass idea about being on the Mount of Olives when Jesus returns or some such.  There’s literally like 200 people like that or something.

    You’re effort to equate Christianity (or “the religious right”) with radical Islamism of the sort practiced by the nut-job leader of Iran is duly noted, though.

    Asshole.

  48. Semanticleo says:

    “There’s literally like 200 people like that or something.”

    The ignorance of your narrow world has been duly noted as well.  It’s just that sort of thinking that kept the Islamic world in the 16th century, so maybe

    your leaping to the conclusion I was including ALL

    christians, has some merit.

  49. Patrick Chester says:

    Semanticleo proclaimeth:

    Here’s a few links for the GoogleLazy.

    IOW: “How DARE you demand I support my own assertions!”

  50. Verc says:

    Achtung Semantic!

    Hey, bud, I’m gonna climb out of my usual panolpia and bury the Clue-Tomahawk for a minute, and just sip this cup of Java and put on some pimp-ass Chill music for a minute.

    And just rap with ya, baby.

    Just relax, sweet thing, put your shoulders back on the couch, or maybe slip down on this shag carpet. Mmmmmm hmmmmmm, now sugarnips, I gotta tell ya, I saw you walk through that door and I gotta say that you just need to take weight off your shoulders, sugar.

    Mmmmm Hmmmm, like what daddy do, just slip down into the cushions. Is that big papa’s wife-beat you got on? Huh? Huh? Yeah, I know.

    I know what’s troubling you.

    I know I can take care of it for ya. Just a, pffft, wafer-thin slice of your soul for papa.

    Uh hunhhh, baby.

    It must be hard for a fine sister, out here and not a single man you meet embodies that, mmmmmm, you know, that fine je ne sais quoi. You want to be protected, sugar, I know. You want a strong man to grab your arm and walk with you down the street, and massage your feet. Uh hunh.

    Cuz it must be hard for a sister to have never researched a fucking word ever uttered by any one to the right of Trotsky. Read a magazine or book by someone other than People, Dick and Jane or Guitar Weekly.

    BREAK’S OVER, HOE. GET YOUR ASS ON THAT CORNER AND GET ME THAT DOLLAR. Scandalous. You guys see that? I work hard for this money.

  51. RTO Trainer says:

    In a vacuum, your points are well made.  We just

    differ on the method.  This is a participatory

    democracy.  It has been said that within 20 years

    every free-election society gets the government it deserves.  We don’t deserve to be lied to for our own good.  When an elite group within a democracy

    has a hidden agenda that they wish to promulgate,

    but their sense is it will not be supported unless framed with careful informational control,

    that could be called a ‘silent coup’.  This is

    acountry where, for good or for ill, we make the

    decisions that propel our future.  The current

    chaos that reigns is due to the hijacking of the

    electorate through manipulation of data, so that

    the People would support action on Iraq.  Once in,

    they knew it would be easy to stay until done.

    That’s not how it’s supposed to work.

    All predicated on the unsupported supposition that anyone has been lied to.

    Start there and build your case.  But you do have to build it before it will be accepted as even a valid opinion.

  52. AFKAF says:

    so maybe

    your leaping to the conclusion I was including ALL

    christians, has some merit.

    I didn’t assume any such thing.  I asked you to define your terms, and assuming that you would not (a very safe assumption), I offered up my own anecodotal, experiential evidence.

    I skimmed your linked sources and I see an assortment of unsupported assertions and quotes from folks like Zogby and spokespersons from “peace” organizations.  Oh, and Dreher.  Who’s a “crunch con” bedwetter of the worst sort.  But even given that, his piece isn’t an exploration of American “religious right” chicanery anyways.

    Your attempt at a moral equivalency between the American “religious right” (if that is to mean anything beyond the literally tens of people who fit your fevered nightmare vision of “Christers” coming to get you) and Iranian eschatological warmongering is as despicable as it is ridiculous.

  53. 6Gun says:

    GoogleLazy.

    blank stare

    BTW, funny post, Verc.  How else to deal with a rubber phone pole…

    tw: Paid.

  54. RTO Trainer says:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/dreher/dreher041102.asp

    Proves what?  That there are people out ther that believe this stuff?  Who was denying it.  Show me a link to current policy.

    http://www.natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives/101102/101102a.htm

    Sharon’s policies which he reversed after this was written….  You’re batting 1000 here, if 1000 means missing every time.

    http://www.publiceye.org/christian_right/zionism/coalition.html

    Nothing more recent than 2003, hopelessly outdated (did you read any of these) and not one from anything like a reliable source.

  55. PMain says:

    Dang, now I have to hitch myself to the religious right? I was just getting used to being a mindless “cultist” who blindly followed the neo-con/fascist agenda. Hell before that, I was just stupid, evil, incompetent & a brilliant election stealer & oppressor of women & minorities. Now I have to worry about maintaining world domination or bringing about the “end of days” as well as grubbing all of the oil & profits I can, while lessening the rich’s tax burdens & making sure minorities can’t vote. Semanticleo, when will I ever have the time to destroy the Constitution, jail the dissidents, read all of Glenn Greenwald’s various personalities’ takes on the “truth” & still not address their substance & stifle free speech while spying on the innocent electronically? There is only 24 hours in the day & I can only assume I am against workers rights as well…

  56. ahem says:

    Semantic:

    You give waaaay too much credit to the so-called religious right. I have a dear friend who believes the same thing and it colors his thought to the degree he’s paranoid.

    That said, I’d agree that those on the ‘religious right’ have a certain kind of spiritual investment in Israel, but that’s not what’s guiding US foreign policy. The same group would feel the same way about Israel even if a Dem was in office. An intelligent Dem would support Israel for the same reason I mentioned above–because it’s a western democracy.

    A key assumption differentiating the left and the ‘right’ is whether you believe Islamism declared war on us back in 1996. Many on the left don’t believe that; it is the single most unifying belief of the folks who are currently identified as ‘right.’

    One fact that goes unobserved by the left is that the American ‘right’–in quotes advisedly–is a group of strange bedfellows: a variety of different types of conservatives, libertarians, JFK democrats, classical liberals, ex-communists, ex-socialists, ex-leftists, ex-SDS-ers, etc. When a troll crashes in here expecting to break up our weekly prayer meeting, it’s pretty funny. But let’s keep it to ourselves, shall we? We don’t want to kill all the fun.

    Relative calm is the relative calm since WWII. You and I have had it good, and no mistake.

    As for 4) being impossibly naive. I’m sorry you view it that way. My late father served in WWII and he and his crewmates won a Silver Star and two Presidential Citations. He wiped the gasoline off a Japanese sailor’s face with his last clean towel. My guiding image of an American is that of a hero. And I believe that you can spit in a crowd of Americans and hit 50 such men and women today. But perhaps I’m naive. I’m also optimistic, but that’s probably not in fashion, either. One reason the left repels me is that is is so pessimistic; it’s paralyzed by fear. It hasn’t the courage of any convictions.

    I don’t know about the citadel; I’ll have to look into it. There’s some debate about the degree of ‘civilian-ness’ of some of the so-called civilians. It’s way too soon to tell if Iraq is a failure. Our little spark may not take flame for several years. Historic events are best evaluated at a distance of decades. It’s beginning to look like we may have won the war in Vietnam after all.

    As far as civil liberty issues are concerned, we’re probably going to go through a massive period of trial and error while the administration–any administration–tries to figure our how to deal with terrorism.

  57. Sean M. says:

    When an elite group within a democracy

    has a hidden agenda that they wish to promulgate,

    but their sense is it will not be supported unless framed with careful informational control,

    that could be called a ‘silent coup’.

    But, dude, didn’t all those guys get killed off at the end of season six?

  58. TODD says:

    “The current

    chaos that reigns is due to the hijacking of the

    electorate through manipulation of data, so that

    the People would support action on Iraq.  Once in,

    they knew it would be easy to stay until done.

    That’s not how it’s supposed to work. “

    Come on Al! It is you isn’t it? We will never forget! Right?  Comical just plain comical….

  59. Verc says:

    Thank ya, thank ya, thank ya. I’ll be in my office if anything smarter wanders into the pasture and needs Clue-stomping.

    But seriously, Semanticleo is a complete waste of time. And this is coming from someone who has made wasting time into an elaborately balanced science. As soon as you kick off the “Apocalyptic Right”, quote the Rolling Stones article as fact–which cites the evil Zionist conspiracy of the Israeli Lobby (AIPAC), btw–and generally lies (that ‘neocons’ admit failure in Iraq, for instance), misrepresents, and take great pains to contradict itself within the same breath. But whatever. Have fun playing with the hairy bean bag.

  60. RTO Trainer says:

    A key assumption differentiating the left and the ‘right’ is whether you believe Islamism declared war on us back in 1996.

    1978.

  61. The Ace says:

    Here’s a few links for the GoogleLazy.

    Er, as demonstrated, this isn’t an answer.

    See, that’s a silly game you ignorants like to play. Link to things that don’t say what you claim they do.

    Which of course is why you’re not quoting from them.

  62. ahem says:

    How can it be a ‘coup’ when we can all vote for President again in 4 years? Don’t you understand? It makes no sense.

    You wanna talk about a coup, read a letter from Pete Hoekstra, the chairman of the Intelligence Committee.

    “In fact, I have been long concerned that a strong and well-positioned group within the agency intentionally undermined the administration and its policies,” Mr. Hoekstra wrote in a May 18 letter to Mr. Bush.

    Now, that’s a ‘silent coup’.

    RTO: I was thinking of Bin Laden’s fatwa.

  63. RTO Trainer says:

    RTO: I was thinking of Bin Laden’s fatwa.

    Sure.  But I’ve been wanting a GWOT since 1983.

    Just so long as we don’t tunel-vision on this al-Qaeda “jihaddi-come-lately.”

  64. Tongueboy says:

    A bloviator is

    a person whose volume and quantity

    of rhetoric varies inversely with

    his knowledge of the subject at hand.

    Therefore, an informed observer would

    naturally conclude that

    Cleo is a bloviator

    on the subject of the Religious Right.

    But of that day and hour knoweth no man…

    If I remember correctly, the end times are

    also characterized by increased evil

    and debauchery. All that time fighting

    to limit women’s reproductive rights,

    to run the gambling mafia out of my state,

    and to outlaw juice bars and lingerie shops…

    Lord, forgive me for forestalling your return.

    Yes, Cleo, that’s called sarcasm. But can

    I buy a little cheap grace in your eyes

    by affirming I have never participated

    in the Drug War?

    One toke over the line, sweet Cleo, one

    toke over the line…

  65. RTO Trainer says:

    Well, as I point out to the friends I have who follow that stuff (more closely than I think healthy) the first thing is that something has to happen to the Dome of the Rock.  Until then I see very little to worry about.

    (Even then I can’t see myself getting too exercised.)

  66. PMain says:

    1978

    Oh yes, who could forget the fateful year that Corvette Summer was released, but only to be slightly over shadowed by Superman & Indiana Jones, but “true” movie fans remember Mark Hammil’s first real “blockbuster”. It was also the summer of pucca shells & turquoise, feathered hair & white Cherokee coveralls. Some believe that the true war of terror began when Farrah left Charlie’s Angels & that its immediate effects were overshadowed by the release of Star Wars in 1977 & the apparent fix for her ABC team in the first Battle of the Network Stars… Telly Salavas was just a little too suspicious in his protestation that led to Robert Conrad’s & the NBC team’s eventual downfall. Never mind Gore 2000, Gabe Kaplan 1976, come on! Besides how do you have a real Battle of the Network Stars w/o inviting the Six Million Dollar Man? Me, I blame the jews.

  67. ddy444mack says:

    Try to snatch the pebble from my hand grasshopper……What the hell is it with all these frickin parables.  Confucius says….

    Me thinks Semanticleo is just trying to waste every bodies time by cutting and pasting insipid articles to divert us from the real goal of Apocalypse.  Just another red herring by a left of center airbag.  Probably not one lick of commonsense and feels potent when he commanding the English language and doing his cut and paste thing. I bet he lives in New Jersey and only moved there because he didn’t know how to pump his own gas.

  68. who's who says:

    ”..Hezbollah and Hamas want a prisoner release. Who are the people they want to set free? Samir Kuntar, who landed on the beaches of Nahariyah, walked into an apartment house, took a father and his four year old daughter out. Then, as the father watched, they smashed the child’s head in with a rock before shooting him. They want to release the men who set off bombs in the cafeteria of Hebrew University, killing students and teachers. They want to release men who used the head of an infant for target practice. They want to make them a heroes welcome in Lebanon. These are the “political prisoners” you are hearing about on your news programs, making it sound like tit for tat. Your kidnapped Israeli soldier who was on his side of the border for our homocidal maniac and baby killer.” – hornet

  69. Verc says:

    Me thinks Semanticleo is just trying to waste every bodies time by cutting and pasting insipid articles to divert us from the real goal of Apocalypse

    THAT does it!!! That is the last time I get up from humping my sister to respond to Semanticleo! Yeeeeeeeee ha!

  70. Big Cooze Hunter says:

    – Moral equivalency is its own reward. there’s a few among us that are going to have a fuck load of explaining to do later on. Good luck with that. Is idiotarianous really worth it? Clearly it’s the “post modern opium for the soft Marxists”.

    – Semidolt, there are three principles that generally debunk 99.9999% of any conspiracy your pointed little head can dream up. Read them. Learn them. FEEL them:

    a) Its hard to keep a single secret with just two people involved, impossible to keep multiple secrets with 3 or more people, let alone 100’s.

    b) Coordinating any sort of conspiracy among a given group of random actors is tantimount to trying to keep 45 balls in the air, while a trantula is crawling up your nutsack.

    c) Vivid imaginations are fun, and unfortunately hereditary in human beings, particularly the young, impressionable, and inexperienced.

    The Left are as children, simply not to be taken seriously. The whole pile of “conspiracy troupes” are based on a desperate need to have something to find fault with in a system they are no longer a viable part of. Powerlessness is really a bitch, and then you die.

  71. noah says:

    Allegedly the hard to fluster Althouse labelled Cleo (and it is a she) something like the stupidest commenter that she (Althouse) had ever encountered on her blog!

  72. Semanticleo says:

    holy Moly.  Must have hit a nerve.  Well, I guess it’s a little like iodine; it doesn’t help unless it hurts.

    In a vacuum, your points are well made.  We just

    differ on the method.  This is a participatory

    democracy.  It has been said that within 20 years

    every free-election society gets the government it deserves.  We don’t deserve to be lied to for our own good.  When an elite group within a democracy

    has a hidden agenda that they wish to promulgate,

    but their sense is it will not be supported unless framed with careful informational control,

    that could be called a ‘silent coup’.  This is

    acountry where, for good or for ill, we make the

    decisions that propel our future.  The current

    chaos that reigns is due to the hijacking of the

    electorate through manipulation of data, so that

    the People would support action on Iraq.  Once in,

    they knew it would be easy to stay until done.

    That’s not how it’s supposed to work.

    “All predicated on the unsupported supposition that anyone has been lied to.”

    Yeah, uh huh.  And in case you all want proof

    that China actually exists, or that the sun rises

    in the East, I’m sure you find Googling for that

    proof just as daunting. 

    Just remember to invest in the market.  Scarcity

    is the key.  Buy scales.  your demand exceeds

    the supply.

  73. ultraloser says:

    Ahem, it’s a pleasure to read your reasoned responses to Semanticleo.  Substance, rather than bluster.  How refreshing.

  74. bender says:

    that could be called a ‘silent coup’.  This is

    acountry where, for good or for ill, we make the

    decisions that propel our future.  The current

    chaos that reigns is due to the hijacking of the

    electorate through manipulation of data, so that

    the People would support action on Iraq.  Once in,

    they knew it would be easy to stay until done.

    are you writing in measures of 12?  why?

    I think your stoned!

  75. Big Cooze Hunter says:

    Guess powerlessness is even worse than we knew. Like the Fat man in Maltese Falcon….Clawing at the bird with a pocket knife…mubbling incoherently… “But….but….I….I don’t understand….it just can’t be….it….it just can’t…..nooooooo”.

    Gonna be really butt crack ugly for some when they find out how badly their poli-sci prof’s, or fellow travelers have “bagged” them.

  76. Semanticleo says:

    Achtung Semantic!

    Hey, bud, I’m gonna climb out of my usual panolpia and bury the Clue-Tomahawk for a minute, and just sip this cup of Java and put on some pimp-ass Chill music for a minute.

    And just rap with ya, baby.

    Just relax, sweet thing, put your shoulders back on the couch, or maybe slip down on this shag carpet. Mmmmmm hmmmmmm, now sugarnips, I gotta tell ya, I saw you walk through that door and I gotta say that you just need to take weight off your shoulders, sugar.

    Mmmmm Hmmmm, like what daddy do, just slip down into the cushions. Is that big papa’s wife-beat you got on? Huh? Huh? Yeah, I know.

    I know what’s troubling you.

    I know I can take care of it for ya. Just a, pffft, wafer-thin slice of your soul for papa.

    Uh hunhhh, baby.

    It must be hard for a fine sister, out here and not a single man you meet embodies that, mmmmmm, you know, that fine je ne sais quoi. You want to be protected, sugar, I know. You want a strong man to grab your arm and walk with you down the street, and massage your feet. Uh hunh.

    Cuz it must be hard for a sister to have never researched a fucking word ever uttered by any one to the right of Trotsky. Read a magazine or book by someone other than People, Dick and Jane or Guitar Weekly.

    BREAK’S OVER, HOE. GET YOUR ASS ON THAT CORNER AND GET ME THAT DOLLAR. Scandalous. You guys see that? I work hard for this money.

    If you look (not too closely)you can

    detect the uncomplicated workings of the lizard brained ‘tweaker’.  It has seen a resurgence of

    late in the Northern hemisphere due to the dumbing down of the american reptile because of contamination of the soil due to the pfofligate

    ‘Meth’ Labs that have been operating unchecked

    the past 6 years.

  77. noah says:

    Now cutting and pasting her own posts!

  78. ahem says:

    ultra: I have my limits.

  79. Bob says:

    noah says:

    Allegedly the hard to fluster Althouse labelled Cleo (and it is a she) something like the stupidest commenter that she (Althouse) had ever encountered on her blog!

    Ann Althouse to Semanticleo:

    Really, you are the only commenter in the entire history of this blog that I have called an idiot. It’s not my style. But, really, you are an idiot! I’m making an exception from my usual standards because it’s just so beyond obvious. Don’t comment again without making a sincere apology. I will delete you if you do.

    Original with context here.

  80. PMain says:

    ‘Meth’ Labs that have been operating unchecked

    the past 6 years.

    Are you complaining about the subversion of impressionable youth or trolling for another voter block to?

  81. allswell says:

    We are very dry in Southern Cali right now. I just want to know where cementlicker is getting her bud. Can I get a number or maybe just a pinch. That is some crazy powerful stuff your smoking. She reminds of a character DAmon Wayans used to do on In Living Color. The guy who uses all these flowery words and phrases that don’t make any sense.

    TW: kind? as in “what kind of shit is she smoking”.

  82. RTO Trainer says:

    Yeah, uh huh.  And in case you all want proof

    that China actually exists, or that the sun rises

    in the East, I’m sure you find Googling for that

    proof just as daunting. 

    You can’t assume that all of us share your premises.  If you have a case to make, go to.

  83. ahem says:

    Bob:

    I don’t know that Althouse is any great authority on anything. She’s also the one who called Jeff a ‘prick’. (Apparently, that was uncustomary behavior for her, too.)

  84. Semanticleo says:

    “Really, you are the only commenter in the entire history of this blog that I have called an idiot. It’s not my style. But, really, you are an idiot! I’m making an exception from my usual standards because it’s just so beyond obvious. Don’t comment again without making a sincere apology. I will delete you if you do.”

    Thanks for re-publishing a proud moment for me.

    Anytime an elitist member of the tenured are challenged by anyone they deem a ‘pupil’, they

    react with the imperious tone of nobility which requires abject submission.  Since she could not

    fail someone not registered for her ‘class’ she

    reacted to what she deems, the arrogance of

    contradiction.  She, like Glenn Reynolds purport

    to be educators.  They may have started out seeking to expand minds, but they have decided to

    expand their personal power instead. You regard

    the slight as a derogation.  I see it as a badge of honor. Her projection onto me the label ‘stupid’ has some verity if ‘stupid’ means I refuse to acknowledge the lofty perch she imbues upon her aged self.  Aged, I might add; not wizened.

  85. Bob says:

    I don’t read Ann’s blog.  I quoted the incident because noah referenced it.  I was curious to know what Semanticleo wrote to fluster Althouse.  Once I found the original, I quoted it here for historis-icity.

  86. 6Gun says:

    Now cutting and pasting her own posts!

    Sans line breaks.  Brilliant!  I haven’t been this convinced since beetroot went all old English a couple posts back…

  87. Patrick Chester says:

    I’m guessing Cleo possessing a stunning intellect is another premise she clings to.

    (Oh, how cute, she used the “struck a nerve” claim of validity. Odd how bee stings also hurt, but aren’t as beneficial as iodine.)

  88. ahem says:

    Semantic: You don’t have to hit return at the end of the line. It’ll wrap by itself. Just hit return when you want to start a new paragraph.

  89. Semanticleo says:

    thx

  90. cynn says:

    By “Citadel” I am assuming that Semanticleo is referring to the monstrosity of an embassy the US is building in Iraq.  Seems like overkill; the seat of our empire, perhaps?

  91. Rick Ballard says:

    Ahem,

    Tom Maguire gave Miz Tic the heave-ho, too. She can’t give you a straight answer because she’s never going to get above that magical mental age of 12. You know – needs a guide to exit a telephone booth.

    I appreciated your rational response to her but “Save the Pixels” is a better policy. Not that she’ll leave. She’s like bad athlete’s foot in that respect.

  92. Civilis says:

    It has been said that within 20 years every free-election society gets the government it deserves.  We don’t deserve to be lied to for our own good.  When an elite group within a democracy has a hidden agenda that they wish to promulgate, but their sense is it will not be supported unless framed with careful informational control, that could be called a ‘silent coup’.  This is

    a country where, for good or for ill, we make the decisions that propel our future.  The current chaos that reigns is due to the hijacking of the electorate through manipulation of data, so that the People would oppose action on Iraq…

    I took the liberty of correcting a minor mistake Semanticleo’s screed.  I don’t believe that it’s an organized conspiracy myself, mind you, but that the progressively dominated organizations that seek to mold American opinion do so due to shared biases rather than concious conspiracy.  They certainly have no problem lying to us for our own good, be it stories about phantom missiles hitting the WTC or white phosphorous “chemical weapons”.

  93. ddy444mack says:

    I think it is Semantic LEO, a he.  Which proves once again there are some men who lack commonsense.  I still think the cut and paste thing is something to distract the right with while someone from the left stuffs important documents down their pants.  Who the hell could read through all that skewed crap he pasted anyway.  Like anyone at Rolling Stone would even start to be considered objective.  I’m surprised it didn’t quote Joe Wilson.  This enigma, S&M Leo probably has a PHD in nuance and wants to be called “Doctor” that is why his posts throw off a mighty condescending air in tone.  Wait, maybe it is Joe Wilson…..

  94. capt joe says:

    Rick Ballard,

    Yes, I remember that. She completely lost her sense of humor with the whole Leoplod “24 hour” Rove indictment.  It was hilarious to watch.  You could almost see the facial tics develop.

  95. Rick Ballard says:

    Civilis,

    I would say that there is some organization involved with a good dose of simple affinity lathered about. Certainly, Fenton Communications is one locus of disinformation that propagates intentional falsehoods in a structured manner. Ryan Sager’s expose of Pew’s manipulation of data and the MSM’s uncritical publishing of the same with regard to Campaign Finance Reform is clear evidence of a coherent plan for misrepresentation.

    Much of the data concerning immigration comes from Pew as well. They certainly know how to manipulate a willing media to generate “public outcry”.

    It’s an interesting question as to how much is intentional misinformation and misdirection generated by plan and how much is generated by affinity of feelings. It’s rather a difficult thing to measure.

  96. Semanticleo says:

    “Tom Maguire gave Miz Tic the heave-ho, too.”

    Yes, the good Maguire did ban me.  It’ part of his ‘free speech’ ethic.  You know, the one he whines about when he gets banned.  But I guess turnabout is fairplay, when you’re ten years old.

  97. Semanticleo says:

    civillis;

    correct your own screeds.  The original was correct.

    Your revisionism may have a subtext for the ‘opposition’ members, but save it for your manifesto

  98. OHNOES says:

    Semanticleo: Proof that it takes all kinds of high school students with tenuous grasps on reality to make a world.

  99. alppuccino says:

    Hey Verc,

    What Mizunos are you playing?  I’ve had the MP-29’s for 12 years and I can’t find anything I like better.

    Mizuno dude, way to go!

    …….Oh and Semanticleo’s a knob.

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