I’m going to try this one out on my wife, should my summer tan and recent bulk-up (thanks, SuperPump 250 powdered supplement by Gaspari Nutrition!) yield me some spontaneous sexual encounters with off-work Hooter’s waitresses who just happen to be wandering around my neighborhood, their clothing threadbare and wet, as I’m out tending to some lawn edging without my shirt on.
That is, if I get caught. Otherwise, you know, I’ll keep my yap shut. Still, the hard truth is, sometimes those Hooter’s gals forget to take their panties with them when they leave, so it’s best to have a bullshit defense at the ready, just in case.
(h/t Ace, who notes, by way of a commenter at Althouse’s place, that Sullivan may have just set the cause of gay marriage back a couple of generations)
So, let me see if I have this right;
Andrew Sulivan and Dan Savage, two gay men, feel compelled to advise men in heterosexual, monogamous relationships, that it’s not only OK to cheat (because “monogamy is hard”), but it’s best to lie to your spouse if you do, just to spare them the pain, I suppose.
Priceless.
Is there no behavior too outrageous, are there no social mores that can’t be ignored, by those who feel it necessary to indulge their basest impulses? And then justify their own guilty conscience by advising all the rest of us that it’s OK to join them in their corruption?
Andrew Sullivan has a habit of assuming that his preferences constitute principles.
The reason that his comments might set-back gay marriage is because people will realize that it will only make him even MORE likely to speak from authority on these issues.
Contextual ethics happen.
TW: ahead
not going there
In one paragraph Mr. Sullivan grants it acceptable for men to break 2 commandments, and I can almost guarantee that the reason is that dear Andrew has a hard time keeping it in his pants and so thinks no one should. Clearly he is a paragon of virtue, and a shoe-in as replacement on the left for Clinton. Bravo.
Years ago, I remember the argument put forth was that gay men didn’t want “marriage” since monogamy wasn’t high on their agenda- they were putting forth a new option. When the gay marriage fight got going hot, that faction got real quiet.
Of course, it has long been my theory that women humanize men. Civilize the brutes. We force monogamy on you.
I think we can all be thankful that at least Andy didn’t get into any examples to illustrate his point.
Because I don’t think they make strong enough anti-psychotics to wipe the thought of Andy meeting the plumber or cable guy at the door to his apartment wearing nothing but a banana hammock and a smile from my brain.
Whoops! Time to make another thorazine milkshake. Anyone else want one?
The truth is neither “good” nor “bad”, it is simply the truth and as such should be valued at all times. Anyone that is dishonest in a personal relationship, with someone they purport to care for, is someone that is inherently dishonest.
We don’t have any special occassions for dishonesty.
Would you please make mine a double?
What was the concept of marriage again?
I guess it surely won’t apply to gay unions….
First of all, I find the No-xplode much more effective at attracting the scantily clad women than the Gaspari product. Plus, it gives you less flatulence, which adds to your odds of getting past hello with them.
Secondly, what kind of Hooters waitresses are you meeting that even wear panties to leave lying around?
Lastly, I would recommend giving this idea a ‘trial run’ without actually committing the sin. You can always apologize to your spousal equivalent from your hospital bed.
Adultery and bearing false witness are dandy. I guess all of that fits in quite well with Andrew’s “why can’t the Catholic Church be more like I want it to be?” campaign…
A lot of concern for commandments here.
Personally, I have my doubts about a deity that has a chance to give 10 rules for good living to mankind, and immediately wastes one telling us not to worship statues and stuff. Hey, no shit? Gosh…
Carlin is my God.
SB: hit
one toke over the line, sweet Jesus
Make mine a triple, as I now have the classic porn movie soundtrack (“whacka-whacka-waaa”) going through my head, too.
I really, really don’t get Sully and those in his audience nodding in hopeful guilt at the “An acceptance of mild hypocrisy as essential social and marital glue” assertion while still demanding to be married.
Hey, if one wants to schtup the one they’re with when their regular schtupee is ill/out of town/or currently boring… Don’t get married.
You don’t get to join the military and wander off base at your discretion.
Sully wants occassional fuckbuddies AND the right to obviate any guilt by transferring the responsibility of accepting his unfaithfulness with no emotional consequence to his partner. This kind of passive/aggressive behavior is the foundation of many an abusive relationship.
One of the worst bits of pablum to come out of the 70’s—“Love means never having to say you’re sorry”
I’m not even clear precisely what Sullivan is advocating. He speaks of using ‘discretion’ but what does he mean? Compound the error with a lie? Fess up and earn a free pass – but only now and then? Or is he requesting polite denial on the part of the aggrieved?
Boys will be boys but AS will never be a man.
Accept me for what I am: fundamentally dishonest!
I’m trying to get in touch with my inner lib.
Can you make mine a strawberry-klonipin smoothee?
TW: run
Gotta
The good major beat me to it.
Sullivan would be as “married” as he is “Catholic.” Neither is a buffet where you get to pick what you want and leave the rest.
The good thing about Hooters girls is that they are used to being puked on, which means you can continue both your SuperPump and your extramarital transgressions.
I’ve got about four hours to get the dwarf pony and the three dead tweakers out of my den before the wife comes home. But hey, what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her.
More like all-you-can eat, where you put everything that catches your eye on your plate, slurp up as much as you fancy, and leave the leftover mess for someone else to clean up.
I like it when they put out the honeydew slices on ice. And sausage. Big plump links of sausage.
….Did someone say they’re making drinks? I’ll take a Double Jack. Neat.
….I feel dirty. I want to go home now.
Nothing for me, thanks. If Sullivan’s around I think I’d rather stay sober.
Goldstein, you need to get a fucking job.
You mean Andy isn’t so much against the Church’s anti-gay stance as he is against their “don’t poke anyone in the room that makes your willy wiggle” stance?
Mild hypocrite!
Looks like one of Andy’s little “indiscretions” just showed up! It’s cool dude, we understand, plumbing work aint what it used to be and sometimes when a guy answers the door in a Union Jack thong (banana hammock) stuffed full of Benjamins it’s best just to got to your happy place and let nature take it’s course. No one is judging you, I’m sure you at least drove a hard bargain (no pun intend…ok, yeah it was intended).
Wow, another “Get a job, Jeff” comment, this time from a chipmunk-cheeked douchebag in a flattop with a face made for radio. I wonder if he’s on assignment from Hamsher.
I thought the T. Rex was extinct, but on closer examination, it was the segment of the left that accepted the value of homemaking.
That being said, if by “f—ing job “ he meant that Jeff should be paid to satisfy those Hooters waitresses, that might be more marketable than claiming it as a hobby.
Did anyone visit Mr. Rex’s site? I gotta stop looking these trolls up. Luckily it’s nearly Happy Hour here and one of those smoothies would go well to forgetting ever reading that blog (oh, and some of Goldstein’s pie would be nice too).
Anyone remember the stats on how much stay-at-home parents would make if they were paid yearly?
About T-rex,
What more can you expect from a Morrisey look alike wannabe with his thumb shoved up his #@#
Since T rex believes that merely issuing the order of “Get a fucking job” is worthy of Jeff’s instant obedience then I have to exploit this situation to my own advantage.
“Goldstein, make the fucking Armadillo violate a stack of Celine Dion posters.”
Nothing like a Dasypus novemcinctus getting jiggy all over Canada’s worst export ever to make a point. We should send them Bobby Brown and Witney Houston as a retaliatory strike.
Rob B.
I thought the “fucking Armadillo” as you so charmingly put it was the reason for Sullivan’s original post.
I figured his wandering eye caught sight of our armored little dillo and just couldn’t keep his hot little hands off the sucker, and well, since we haven’t heard any protests coming from him, I’m going to assume that violating a stack of “Celine Dion posters” isn’t very high on the little guy’s list of things to do today.
Why does anyone pay any attention to AS, anymore?
He writes, or blogs, I guess, for a magazine that nobody reads, and serves as fodder while waiting in the dentist’s office–usually 6 months out of date.
I know, I know, people read him so as to mock him…Hey, so what’s wrong with marital infidelity? Doesn’t the freedom to screw around add emotional glue to the relationship?
How old is AS? 16? ‘Cuz he sure rationalizes like a teenager.
You guys are doing a bang-up job of disarming the dildo, T Rex. It’s too hot for smoothies, I’m for a double shot of chilled Patron silver.
TW: suddenly
feeling better
I remember when I used to think like AS. It was back when I was too horny to see who was carrying those parts around. That’s some dangerous shit for anyone being driven by hormones.
Once you can truly see the carriers, it’s instant monogamy – if you can find it.
I must be old…
Rob … that was very hurtful. *sniff*
Haven’t you already done enough damage? Bill Clinton keeps popping up here like a toaster strudel.
Tell you what … put a leash on him and I’ll take Whitney for a week.
Hmm. If a man is born to love a man, is it a given that he is “wired” the same way as straight men when it comes to monogamy?
I call bull on the whole “monogamy is hard for men” line anyway. I’m not saying it isn’t. But are women so sexless that once we chain ourselves to our man’s leg and get him to use demitasse cups, we are never again tempted?
Anybody know what T-Rex’s job is?
Me, I’m helping on a manuscript for a book coming out this fall, and I’ve signed on to write a screenplay—this in addition to taking care of my son and working on a bit of my own fiction.
And oh yes, running this site.
I also do a weekly radio show, and do some other work for PJM.
For much of this I’m paid modestly. But as I’ve said before to people like T-Rex (well, not exactly like him—he is, after all, a special and unique snowflake, one that fancies itself colder and more ornate than other snowflakes, who just suck in comparison), are they willing to say that people who work at daycare centers don’t have jobs? Or is he saying that taking care of children is only a job when it’s done by strangers?
Either way, I’d like to know what he does. Must be a good job that allows one to spend his days taking pot shots at other people on their internet sites. Or maybe that’s just how he spends his lunch hour.
Consider how the the marriage contract evolved.
Bear with me here until I get to the finish. It’ll be a bit more clinical than sits well with some people, but your all intelligent folks except for T. Rex so give it a thought or two.
Humans aren’t geese and don’t establish a mate for life situation by nature. Our closest relatives are the great apes who by nature gather in alpha male polygamous groups. We still share many of the same biochemical responses from very similar endocrine systems to stimulae.
Ok then. Humans, except for the relatively rare groups like rain forest tribes and some Mormans that like the Hilary Clinton ‘It’s Takes A Village’ concept, don’t gather in groups for breeding and child rearing any longer. Somewhere along the line our species parted from that. The social group setting is no longer there to provide a safety net for child rearing, but the endocrine system of the alpha male still is.
To compensate for this conundrum of nature, humans developed a social compact between a man and a women that requires a commitment from the man to stick around and assist in the child rearing by providing whatever support etc. He agrees to give up the trifling ways of the alpha male and in return has a committed sexual partner and more chance to pass on his genetic pattern. He now doesn’t, usually, have to defend his mating rights against other alpha males. His mate rejects them as her part of the agreement and also now has a greater chance to pass on her genes. Everyone benefits except the males who live in their parents basement and can’t trick a lady into signing on the bottom line for love or money. They do get to thump their chests on the reality community blogs and impress the ladys there, but it’s a zero sum game and that’s a different discussion anyway.
Where was I? Oh yeah. So we now have a mutually beneficial contract between men and women that allows the species to thrive outside the communal group. Works great. Everybody who buys in gets to pass on their superior genes to the next generation and as an added benefit, it keeps the kids alive to care for the old folks whether they like it or not.
But it IS about child rearing. There are other reasons why people commit, but there is no natural pressure coming down through the last few tens of thousand years that requires a male uncommitted to or uninterested in procreation to enter a contract that requires him to be monagamous.
So Sullivan has it right for gay men. The commitment to monagamy in a gay marriage does not satisfy any compact driven by nature or nuture. The randy alpha male doesn’t get any benefits and the bonding is going to be looser. So romping in someone elses room and keeping it to oneself to avoid hurt feelings… Where Sullivan falls flat on his face is when he trys to apply the same ideas to the marriage contracts that do provide the benefits I mention and don’t just require monagamy but also trust in monogamy to do so.
Sorry Diana,
Your right. And for the Record I hope the Oilers win.
Hogamous, Higamous,
men are polygamous,
Higamous, Hogamous, women monogamous
Yep. Look how well they worked out for Andy…
Actually, this is the story that I heard about T.Rex and I am sticking to it like Mark Ash is sticking to his.
T.Rex originally wrote the screenplay for Double Dragon. He knew, off course, with such a hot property, he needed the best producer. That’s were Jane the Hamster came in. Well, after a few hours, a bottle of ripple and 8 rolls of duck tape, the deal was signed. Unfortunately, the studio didn’t want such an unknown. The hamster felt sorry for him and that is how he got his guest blogging at Firedoglake.
Since then, he has been shopping around a screenplay for his feel good musical of Vlad the Impaler, a modern parable for zionist amerikkka.
The rate of infidelity among married women is higher than many people assume. IIRC it’s nearly equivalent among younger marrieds. The differential becomes pronounced past the twenties, but this may be attributable to opportunity moreso than desire.
Jeff,
I went over to his site and took a gander earlier, I don’t want to click again (I already showered). According to his site he is a 38 YO, divorced guy who is going to go with his momma to shop for clothes. Apparently does some blogging at Hamsher’s and something about being a radio programmer. He wants to go shopping with his momma because since the divorce he is poor and apparently has sufferred so that he has lost weight and his pants are too big.
Other than that, I don’t know anything about him.
Oh, by the way, that recent study that surveyed “stay at home parents” valued the job of doing so at something like $135,000.
Just so you know. I don’t care how many degrees you have, you shouldn’t be making more money than Verc.
And I’m sure you’ll hear about it.
Pun intended?
Remember when your wife made eggplant parmagian for the first time? Remember how it smelled like open ass, and tasted worse?
You lied, and you choked down every bite.
LIED MAN!!!
I bet “the boyfriend” is feeling a bit nervous right around now. As for “the beagle,” he probably doesn’t care.
T Rex
I was a full time stay-at-home mom for 16 years (4 daughters)
Drop by So Cal sometime. I’d love to discuss with you your ideas that I or Jeff or any number SAHP’s are only worthy of a shoutout to “get a fucking JOB”.
Hmmmm… there’s some nice quiet stretches of desert out along I15 beyond Barstow where we wouldn’t be interrupted while I educated you on the subject.
Let me know.
TW: Golf … as in a nine-iron isn’t just for …
alppuccino- you know why I love you? Because I have to lose about 5 lbs before bathing suit season kicks in, and this comment just killed my appetite for days.
I’m going to say a prayer of thanks that I have no idea what Alp’s comment means.
Except that I should never order eggplant parmagian, which I probably could have figured out for myself anyway…
Ya notice which side of the political spectrum that crap’s coming from?
Dude, I just graditimated, so instead of weekly paychecks I get IOU stubs.
Luckily, I signed on as part time Protein Wisdom Sheriff and so Jeff let’s me hang out with the tango-line of chained basement homos.
On Saturdays, actus invites me to his mother’s basement. We watch Star Trek and spoon (I’m the butch, he’s the bitch). Unless it’s drill weekend, and then I’m too busy burning brown people’s villages and raping and pilaging. But we’re Marines so we often do the burning first and then there is precious little to rape and pillage. DOH!
Back to lurking.
Congrats on matriculating, Verc! Am I remembering wrong, or did you write way back that your degree was in History? If so, somehow I envision geoduck and her ilk developing a curious look, sensing a disturbance in the Force.
And that’s a good thing, if you ask me.
Who’s directing, Jeff? ‘Cause I’ve long thought that would be a good gig for me.
ACTION!
Goldstein! Rewrite scenes 8, 14, and 22. They’re crap!
TW: Give me a script about a musician overcoming adversity. It worked for Ray and Walk The Line.
Yes, sir, Master Tang, but I almost refuse to use it. I love to teach (nothing like teaching 18yr olds how to disassemble jet engines, btw) but I could not work in a school. So combat engineering, here I come. Reupping in the Marine Corps reserve, ummm, tonight.
It is a better, more honest and conseqential profession, I think. You also get to travel and imbibe strange drinks, and make love to strange women on strange beaches. Sometimes.
mmmmmmmm…strange.
There’s nothing better than showing up to work in yesterday’s clothes, reaking of cheap liquor and sex.
Hey, can I audition for this? I used to play Ron Jeremy’s plainer buddy in a lot of stuff back in the 80’s…
Hmmm, but, Balzac, do fluffers count as actors?
I guess I should get a job too. Taking car of 5 kids (and home schooling them) is the slacker’s way. I am so ashamed.
Verc,
That is definately a question for the Fluffer”s Union Of America..
Makes you wonder what about the relationship between “fluffer” and the tasty treat “fluffernutter.”
Because you just know there is a relationship. Has to be.
He works for NPR. His hobby seems to be suffering for the sins of humanity.
I’m awaiting the new Barbie doll: “Monogamy is hard!”
Which means he works for NPR 9-5 Mon-Sat, and listens to NPR the rest of the time?