From France-Echos comes this:
The Obin report, innocuously entitled “Signs and Manifestations of Religious Affiliation in the Educational Establishments†and headed by the inspector general of French education Jean-Pierre Obin, the study was actually finished last year but remained unpublished until leaked on the Internet a few weeks ago.
It is easy to understand why the French government was unwilling to publish it. For the survey is a devastating indictment and an anxious wake-up call at the same time.
The result of an extensive research and five months of field interviews in numerous schools in 20 French provinces by a distinguished group of educators, the Obin report documents the extensive Islamization of French schools in the vicinity of Moslem ghettoes and the imposition of strict conformity with Islamist dictates through violence and intimidation.
Having by and large completed their takeover of the Moslem ghettoes, often by “targeted violence†against non-Moslems and moderate Moslems alike, the Islamist fanatics are making great progress towards achieving control of the educational system as well.
As usual, girls are the first victims of religious extremism. The “big brothers,†as the Islamists are known in school, enforce a strict Islamic dress code which prohibits make-up, dresses and skirts, forbid any co-educational activities and make going to the movies, the swimming pool or the gym all but impossible for Moslem girls.
The punishment for refusal to conform is often physical violence and beatings. And this, says the report, is a relatively protected environment compared to “what girls experience outside of school.†Such as forced marriages at 14 or 15.
No less disturbing is the picture Obin paints of the spread of the kind of religious obscurantism that one associates with Wahhabi zealots, but would find difficult to envisage in a public school in the heart of Western Europe.
Moslem students often refuse to study Voltaire or read Madame Bovary, acknowledge even the existence of other religions, or sing, dance, draw faces or right angles because they resemble the cross. English, on the other hand, is hated as the “language of imperialism.â€Â
Increasingly, the radical Islamists are able to secure special, often preferential, treatment for Moslem students making a mockery of French secular traditions. In some schools, Moslems already have the right to eat at separate tables, have their own toilets off limits to the infidels, be served only halal (Islam’s kosher) food and practice mass absenteeism during Moslem holidays.
In addition to the routine expression of violent anti-Semitic sentiments, schools have also become a major focus of aggressive proselytism. The report states that it is virtually impossible for non-practicing Moslem kids in school not to conform to the strict Islamist behavior prescriptions. Even non-Moslems are often forced to take part in Ramadan fasting, against the wishes of their parents.
Perhaps most troubling is the study’s finding that this new generation of Moslem children, born and raised in Europe, is growing up already indoctrinated to consider themselves part of a “Moslem nation†separate and opposed to everything Western civilization stands for.
It is quite likely that things like this are happening all over Europe, where the multiculturalist social project is reaping what its critics have long noted it would sow: a Balkanized culture wherein individual identity groups (once they complete the internicine battle over who controls their identity narrative, a battle which often favors the dedicated extremist) claim control over how they are to be treated and what the Other—in this case, the French—can and cannot say or do to assail their culture.
Making matters more difficult is that the Koran is the guiding law for Muslims, and Islamists are able to use it, when given the opening, to claim a form of internal sovereignty from the laws of the nations they inhabit. And so long as those nations concede to the demands made by Islamists, they are by necessity ceding bits of their own sovereignty to “foreign” mini-states embedded within their nation state.
What is suprising here is that the ultranationalist French have allowed the situation to go this far. For what it’s worth, I would have expected this more in, say, Great Britain—but I suppose that the French have so ghettoized their Muslim population that they have alienated, rather than assimilated, Muslims, which (moreso than multicultural “tolerance”) is the cause of the Balkanization in this instance.
All of which, I suspect, means that France will soon burn. Because say what you will about the French, but they are nothing if not proud and self-interested. And I doubt they will let any parts of their country be taken over by radicalized Islamist enclaves.
I expect violent crackdowns and deportations are not so far away as one might think.
Your thoughts?
I certainly have my doubts about that. The Fwench just caved in to the students when Chirac stated he would rescind the bill. I really don’t think that the Fwench will stand up to anything anymore.
“The wogs begin at Calais” is starting to loke severely prophetic, huh?
SB: hands
show of
The question is: what do you do about this?
Any action will undoubtably be met with protest and violence. France can’t even allow 25-year olds to be fired without protest and violence.
So, the incentive for the politicians is to ignore the problem and pretend it doesn’t exist. At least, until they leave office. The only people motivated to make a real change are those who truly care about the future of the country, and those seem to be a minority of the chattering classes.
I don’t see a practical solution.
Of course, what am I saying. That shouldn’t be related to the Fwench only. I think that all of Europe is incapable of standing up….I sorta have to include the USA in that group also. We are presently being cowed to accept, unassimilated and seperatist, almost 12 million illegal residents.
Christ, I wish GWB and the Congress would grow a set of balls.
I see an important difference between caving into the soft-socialist demands of those reared on soft-socialism and entitlement, and the question of nationalism being threatened by those presuming to take over French schools, towns, etc., and institute Sharia law—all while telling the French to move or be assimilated.
In close quarters, the French can be ruthless. So all it takes is the will. Do they have it? I think they do—because this is a predicament of self interest. But I could be wrong.
Time will tell, I suppose.
Why do I get the feeling that Milosovic is laughing in his grave?
First, immediately cut off all welfare payments. Next, bust the hell out of any criminal activity. And this does include car-torching, gang-rape, and other charming activities that thes “youths” indulge in. Ship all foreign born trouble makers back to their lovely home countries.
It is coming down to this. Or war.
From Fort Zinderneuf to Chirac’s ears, my hunch is that, in this matter, the French Foreign Legion will be allowed to help with domestic disturbances and then it’s off to the races.
.
I’ve said for years that France will be a Muslim country by 2020, maybe sooner.
Josh,
FYI in French (you have the equivalent in all Romance languages) “grand frère†simply means “elder brother†without any ideological connotation attached.
But I’ll have to admit the Orwellian irony is quite “piquant†(to use another French word) when the translator chooses to replace “grand†or “elder†by “bigâ€Â!
Cordially,
Dr V
Who is this Josh?
I mean Jeff obviously.
I discussed this very topic with a most wise friend of my recently. I tend to fear for the future of Europe given the demographic trends described by Mark Steyn, the free-speech chill represented by the cartoon business, etc. My friend’s point echoed Jeff’s – which is to say, he sees a French Nationalistic uprising in the future, after which time things will get, er, pretty ugly – but most overdue corrections are. I certainly don’t hope for widespread violence in Europe, but I’m even less looking forward to an Islamic EU, so I hope he (and Jeff) are correct.
I myself remain pessimistic.
What’s the signficance Doc? “big brother”, “elder brother” or “older brother” doenst matter what you call them. The point is the French have islamist youths running around enforcing sharia law on non-practicing muslims and non-muslims through violence. I don’t think many people are going to equate islamist thugs enforcing sharia law without proper authority with some sort of orwellian authoritarian governmental authority. By the way in the US older brothers are generally referred to as big brothers there relative sizes not withstanding.
Josh, Jeff. Iceberg, Goldberg.
The student protests are different from the Islamist protests of last fall. In fact, the students are protesting the vital interests of France’s Islamic community: easing the unemployment in the ghettoes, mainstreaming the ghettoes. That is the very definition of how wars start, even internecine wars.
But the very worst thing the French Islamists could hope for is too much success, too dramatically. They have demographics on their side; in twenty years, France would be a Muslim nation in all respects. But if the Islamists see that violence works, as it has, twice and dramatically within half a year, they will get at it again, much harder.
It is not just France and les banlieu sensibles. It is also the Cartoon Wars. And if it happens that certain groups become emboldened, and violent (against l’etat itself), France will respond.
The quirk of the ‘insurgency’ type warfare as it is unidirectional, monotonically increasing. There will be more fighting because the French students have just doomed themselves and their country to economic misery. Had the French done the sensible thing and reformed, they would probably be Muslim.
Now they’ve chosen war.
Doc,
In American English common usage “big brother” means the same as “elder brother” with no implied ideological context that I am aware of.
FWIW
When France finally reaches the consensus the Moslems have gotten out of hand, you will see deportations from that country as brutal and far-reaching as those from Spain in 1492. They will quietly ignore all UN resolutions condemning it as well as the charges of hypocrisy.
France is fucked and as much as I don’t like the French, I’m not happy about it.
None of this comes as a surprise to anyone who’s read Bruce Bawer’s book, While Europe Slept. This book is essential for anyone who wants to understand what’s going on in Europe right now and how it got to this point.
As an aside, the book also makes you incredibly proud to be an American.
More on the French here.
I’ve just started Claire Berlinsky’s book, “Menace in Europe, Why the Continent’s crisis is America’s too”. It covers this topic. I’ve also ordered Bruce Bawer’s new book, “While Europe Slept, how radical islam is destroying the west from within”. 9/11 woke me up to this danger, and it amazes me that some people still think that it was a Bush conspiracy. I’m hoping that all the violence associated with the Mohammed cartoons will wake up more people, but it seems like they’re still trying to figure out “why they hate us”. At least the people that I know. Thank G-d for the internet where I can find and print out Osama bin Laden’s, and his henchmen’s own words to show to these people. Anyway, Jeff, thanks for such a great site. We get a great education, plus your wackadoo sense of humor!! LOL. Which I absolutely love, and most of the commenters are just as hilarious. Thanks again.
THIS is an EX-country!
But what if the gang rapist’s didn’t make a video that proved their innocence? then what?
I don’t know, guys, I just don’t know.
I had an economics professor in college (late 1970s) who predicted that the Soviet Union was doomed, economically, and bound to collapse. But he expected it to result in civil war, with massive destruction and millions dead. We got lucky – it didn’t happen. No one expected such a peaceful solution to that problem.
Is there a peaceful way out of this one? I don’t know. It’s like watching a slow-motion train wreck. We can see it coming, but we don’t know what will happen next. What if there is no good solution to this problem?
It may come down to this: who’s prepared to be more ruthless – the Islamists or the French?
sw: live. Will we live through this?
I don’t know, I might be willing to fight for France.
There’s that whole beachhead theory.
And, of course, the chance to rub a little “anti-America” rouge gently into one or two cheeks is not to be sneezed at.
The French are a little hard to predict. Taking over the world one day, slashing at each others throats the next, then it’s up on the weekend to bow and scrape and freak out over foreign words.
Maybe the French will revert to “Charlemagne/Napoleon” mode and Johnny Depp will have to move again.
But it’s nice to hear the news anyway.
After reading this post, the thought of that story by Dan Simmons keeps ringing n my head. Is this the forfront of the 100 year war? I guess history does repeat itself…
Travel brochure to al France for Spring 2025.
France will be the first Islamic Republic of the EU, but not the last.
Only question remains, will the Louvre get their artwork OUT of France before it is destroyed?
Good luck explaining to the fwench the problem that lies at their feet – they’re too busy trying to whipsaw the EU over to their model of “economics.” If ever there was a society that has been taught not to look past its own selfish best interest, it is the fwench.
Maybe it’s their insistence on taking three months off per year in the summer (whilst les nouvelles miserables still toil in the cities). Maybe it’s their inability to construct a functional air conditioner. Maybe it’s that cute little habit of giving all their men of the political classes female names.
But unless the fwench somehow start themselves up a modern version of Elba for their miscreants, they are well and truly fornicated, this within 15 years.
The UK may indeed regret taking part in the EuroTunnel project, but not for the initial reasons (Germans, Russians) to worry.
You were, of course, responding to the part of nikkolai’s comment where he called for the accused to be handled entirely extrajudicially—summary executions and the like.
Oh, wait, he didn’t say anything like that.
The snark is denied on grounds of unripeness.
I have always thought that it was the Islamists fault for not assimilating. I am not as sure, now. I wonder if it is more Darwinian this way. When other cultures assimilated with America (remembering it is a two-way street), not all influence that culture evenly.
First, the fewer cultures (“America – the early years”)had to weave into the tapestry, the more even was the shift. As the mid- and industrial years developed, and with them the softer focus on agriculture, different peoples with different skills found different kinds of prosperity. Their influence on the culture was both smaller in impact, and greater in furthering our acceptance of those with differing attitudes about life and living.
Second, because laws were steadily, if not equally applied, and standards of manners were common between cultures, the more you succeeded, the less your culture’s differences affected the whole. In the ghettos, along with violence, there was family. Strong families generally survived better, easier, and with a greater chance of breaking through a very low ceiling. (mild political comment here) The more, it seemed, government got involved with internal dynamics (bussing to spread out the cultures, inadvertantly encouraging the one-parent family through bad welfare policy, etc.) as opposed to external dynamics, say, lynchings or poll taxes, the core of that which was America grew weaker .
The Islamic – especially the Radical Islamic – culture is almost designed to be stronger, as it is more focused. I wonder if this direction is virtually unchangeable in Europe? I suppose if the Long-timers get a clue, but they will almost all need a clue, and right soon, mate.
Is there a connection in this to our unique problem of the growing illegal immigrant power status?
tw: island: maybe no man, but possibly one culture.
I now have to go back and read the comments. Apologies if I just cribbed anyone.
DrSteve, please don’t hurt Actus, he’s not responsible. I hear he’s a law student.
You see? They’re assimilating after all!
Who run Bartertown?
Don’t count the French out yet. Don’t count Europe out yet, either. According to military people I know, Iraq is crawling with special operations forces from all over the world, including Europe, who are gaining practical (i.e. very bloody) experience on how to deal with Islamic terrorists in an urban environment.
Europeans have only two modes: utter passivity and genocidal rage. We may yet see the switch from the relatively recent (and historically anomolous) former mode into the traditional latter mode.
Think of all the corpses the Europeans created during the two world wars and in the Belgian Congo, German East Africa, Devil’s Island, etc. And the French fielded police death squads in their fight against the OAS during the DeGaulle years.
I wouldn’t dream of it. The stuff is funny if you go for nearly toxic concentrations of ironic detachment. He just jumps the gun a little sometimes, and nikkolai’s post really didn’t give him the opportunity he thinks it did. That’s all I was saying. Of course, I could have completely missed the point of his post, too.
The only hostility I feel towards anyone here is reserved for that de la Vega fraud.
I am completely, completely confused. A year ago, the big news was the French headscarf ban. I was actually irritated with the French for cracking down on religious expression. Now it looks like France was being proactive against this separatism.
How are the Muslims getting their own bathrooms, when they’re not allowed to have headscarves? What?
Interesting read.
Hope the French find their balls and beat back the mohammadean invasion. It will take tremendous resolve, which I’m not sure they have. Socialism has a neutering effect.
Dammit- where’s Charles Martel when you need him?
I am not very optimistic about this one getting solved without lots of bloodshed. They’ll get some Le Pen-like ass clown in power to whip things up and it’ll be off to the races. Man, I find myself praying for France. Irony abounds. Well, not really – I guess the average Jacques or Jeanette in Normandy or Artois didn’t ask for any of this…
I think it’s fair to say their problems are worse than ours. The bridge between the average illegal immigrant from Mexico and a native-born American is far more bridgable than that of a violent Muslim fanatic with a secular, socialized European. I don’t see too many car fires in the streets of LA or Dallas right now.
Our issues with illegal Mexican immigrants could be solved by, in addition to more border security, making the naturalization process more realistic – streamline the immigration process so it won’t take literally a decade to someone from Latin America become a citizen (if you’re lucky). Take away the emotionalism from the debate, and the US immigration problem boils down to labor supply vs. demand. Make the laws reflect the reality, and much of the problem will solve itself.
France has a far tougher job, because it has a core of true, honest-to-Allah enemies in its midst. I think there is a practical solution for Europe – aggressive assimilation. France needs to stand up to these “big brothers,” not just to curb violence but to show non-violent muslims that the French state will protect both itself and them, thus making the state worthy of respect.
Hell, where did the Vikings go? All the brave ones that weren’t loony went to the US, myself, I think – all those illegal Europeans, invadin’ the New World without the proper papers and all.
More seriously – I think it’s because too many Europeans think self-defense isn’t necessary anymore – the US will pick up the tab, and besides, I think they’re still half-convinced everyone in the world is nice and would agree ifonly with enough “dialouge” occurs. The Dutch lost this naivete after Theo Van Gogh. I fear only something of that magnititude will shake the French from their lethagry.
Somewhere in the vast forests of Luxembourg a descendant of Charlemagne lurks. Charles Martel indeed.
No. They only acquiesced, using the “somebody else’s problem” excuse. You know, the same one the Left uses to castigate intervention in Iraq. Dead babies, genocide against Kurds and Marsh Arabs, 300K/year dead—not Americans; not our problem; symptoms of a “well-run tyranny”.
It is said, sometimes, that people get the Government they deserve. It isn’t always true. Sometimes they get less, or worse.
Regards,
Ric
“Get a bigger hammer!”
SB: some
things never change
“Josh, Jeff. Iceberg, Goldberg.”
I can’t believe that there is another human being who doesn’t know me that is familiar with that joke!
Finally, my existence is justified!
France is in deep doo-doo and Germany is mobilizing as we speak.
(Actually the Germans are well occupied with their own unassimilated immigrant Muslim population, but that’s another day’s topic.)
The French government will be able to continue its plus c’est la même chose routine only so long as the activities described remain mostly confined to the ghettoes, regardless of whose civil rights within are being trammelled. Even now, the French won’t police these neighborhoods. And who administrates and teaches in these schools? Has the government turned over entire school districts to the Islamists to do with as they will?
If, however, the ghetto violence begins to spill over, as it did last fall, into normal French society with any regularity, the French will demand action. And, yes, it could very well come to violent crackdowns and even mass deportations. I don’t see the natives bidding adieu to la belle France voluntarily or quietly.
That’s all well and good and necessary, but who is going to deal with the ordinary Muslim who has been indoctrinated to consider himself part of a “separate Muslim nation” hostile to all things Western? That is the larger threat. And why do I feel that sooner or later we’ll be drawn into the bloody thick of it?
Oh, I dunno. Reckon a century and a half of experience might have anything to do with it?
Regards,
Ric
It’ll be interesting to see just how many ‘cultural centers’ and mosques are arsenals.
Yeah, ISNA, I’m talking about you, too.
As far as Simmons’ Century War? He’s dead on, except that it’s already been going on for centuries. This is just a new phase.
TW: It’s only going to get uglier.
I can’t wait til the radical Islamists start pulling their crap over here.
It will be interesting when they come upon the meaning of such words as “Crips” and “Bloods”. The Islamo-fascists wouldn’t last two minutes against any decent La Crosse team in the country, either.
Americans are pretty nice people for the most part, but as a foreigner, you really don’t want to piss them off.
They can have France, but I think the little bullies had best think twice before showing up with an attitude in my town. I don’t think they really understand what an unpleasant place making their own laws would drop them in – at least where I live. If my kid were threatened by Islamo-bizarros at school, you can bet that right after the “diplomacy” failed, I would not go weeping to my house and sob myself to sleep. Wonder how the BizarreIslamos react when someboy gets in their face? Sounds like fun to me. Bring it on, ibn Al Hookahlookha. I don’t think that I’ve ever met a relic of the 7th century before.
I expect France, Italy and Germany to do what they do best, go on a killing spree.
I think Holland will actually work things out much less violently.
I was in Italy a couple months ago and there plenty of signs of outright hatred of Muslims. The papers, from England as well as Italy and France, were full of front-page, above-the-fold stories about Muslims doing bad things.
Holland, on the other hand, is aggressively tolerant. I think they will react with much more restraint, but they will react.
I just see lots of blood-shed in the larger EUnuch countries.
You know what seems strange to me? When we invaded Afghanistan, and later when we invaded Iraq, there were persistant, dire warnings about the dreaded “rising of the Arab street.”
For some strange reason, the invasions caused far less reaction by the Arab street than some relatively mundane cartoons in a Danish newspaper.
It’ll all end in tears, as a man says. And riots. burned cars. That sort of thing.
Tom:
“inadvertantly encouraging the one-parent family through bad welfare policy,”
What makes you think it was inadvertant? The American left needed a permanent underclass in order to survive post-depression. The best way to create it was to destroy the poor family.
Beck:
The so-called “Arab Street” doesn’t rise when it actually might, you know, get SHOT at by real soldiers. It is reserved for ceremonial violence.
Lost Dog, I was thinking the exact same thing. There is no way, absolutely no way, any responsible American parent is going to put up with this sort of shit. Lemme ask everyone this: your child is being threatened by a group of junior wannabe islamic militants at school, bullied, pushed around, and told he can’t use a certain stall when he’s really got to go. Then he comes home and tells you that the can’t study his mulitplication tables because he’s got two whole chapters of the Koran to memorize, or he’s going to get a beatdown tomorrow at first bell. Now, do you even remotely care fuck-all about anything even finge-ishly PC? No, no, no, no no, no, no. You go speak to the school, the other kids parents, the Governor, whomever, and if that doesn’t work, you put on the black pj’s and go tactical. You can fuck with the average American man, but do not, under any circumstances, fuck with his family.
It all comes down to the acid test, which, as Jeff knows due to his Zen & Motorcycle Maint series, is the Peace of Mind test, the same test used whether when choosing peas over carrots, or GMC over Ford, or life over death. Some are easier than others granted, but it is always, and has always been, about peace of mind.
What the jihadists need to learn, and we need the brass ones to teach them, is that in the grand scheme of the cosmos, they need to be more worried about our peace of mind than their own…not, as it stands now, vice versa..
surf-actant
I think you’re on the right track Charlie. While the Arab street in Egypt or France or any of the numerous other Arab countries didn’t have any cause to worry about “getting shot,” I think there’s a substantial factor at play wherein Arabs had a certain degree of respect for the US military’s actions. They may have absolutely hated what we were doing, disagreed with our motives and justifications, and wished death upon each and every American soldier, but they could still respect that we were willing to back up our threats with decisive action.
That perception seems to have substantially eroded, for one thing, and it seems to be non existent when it comes to consideration of countries which were unwilling to support the US invasion of Iraq. France is (rightly) perceived by Muslims as being weak precisely because they didn’t have the stomach to stand up to a thug like Saddam, despite the lofty platitudes of support for America which came issuing forth in the immediate aftermath of 9/11.
What you going to do? kick the jocks out of school?
How does the headscarf ban make them seem?
So, what, it’s ok because you can come up with a superficially similar case from more common experience?
Forgive me if your post wasn’t, y’know, meant to communicate an actual position.
And for my part, the headscarf ban was misplaced. I believe you’d probably refer to it as incompetence.
Actus: The headscarf ban is a single incident of defiance amidst too many cases of appeasement, multicultural pandering, and spinelessness to count.
While it suggests that the French may yet find the will to resist the overwhelming tide of Islamicization, it does not in any way, shape, or form invalidate my argument.
Next?
Unserious.
The longer the Arabian Nazis are allowed to consolidate their foreign beachheads, the higher the butcher’s bill for this mess is going to get.
What terrifies me the most is the growing possibility that we may have to actually commit genocide on these people just to live in peace. I don’t believe there is a peaceful solution. I am not going to convert and live under Sharia nor will I accept dhimmitude. They will accept no other terms. So conflict is inevitable.
Of all the people in hte world, the last i’d call multicultural would be the french. They’re rather supremacist, rather ‘be french or be not part of society.’
It’s multiculturalism that got France into this predicament in the first place.
The Arab ghettos across France have happily opted to “not be a part of society,” and society has embraced that very paradigm. The riots in every major French city several months back were a clear demonstration of what happens when you have large unassimilated minority populations whose very philosophical ethos is diametrically opposed to the values of liberal Western culture.
Great thread, I’m cheered by the general concern here for France’s welfare (no pun intended!)
If anyone here knows a neuroscientist named d2ana, please tell her I love her. Also, thanks to her and a recent layoff, I am about ready to give up science completely and study guitar full time. God bless all of you including the velvet underground and the paper floor.
“The Butcher’s Bill”
As much as I play guitar and attempt to sing, I will probably never make an album. If I ever do, this will be the title of the album.