From the AP / YNet:
Hard-line Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who said Nazis’ attempt to eradicate Jews in Holocaust was a ‘myth,’ now charges that European countries sought to complete genocide by establishing Israel, a Jewish state in the midst of Muslim countries
Hard-line Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who said the Nazi attempt to eradicate Jews in the Holocaust was a “Myth,†has now charged that European countries sought to complete the genocide by establishing Israel, a Jewish state in the midst of Muslim countries.
“Don’t you think that continuation of genocide by expelling Jews from Europe was one of their (the Europeans’) aims in creating a regime of occupiers of Al-Quds (Jerusalem)?†the official Islamic Republic News agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.
“Isn’t that an important question?â€Â
Well, sure, that’s an important question —though I rather doubt Mr. Ahmandinejad will like how I rephrase it. Specifically: “Did not the Europeans know we Muslims are ideological savages incapable of countenancing the presence of Jews in our midst? Did not they know we demand from non-Muslims either submission or death—and that we would not rest until we’d accomplished one or the other?”
Ahmadinejad said Europeans had decided to create a “Jewish camp†as the best means for ridding the continent of Jews and said the camp, Israel, now enjoyed support from the United States and Europe in what he termed the slaughter of Muslims.
Last month, Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust, in which Nazi Germany killed six million Jews, was a myth. After global outrage over the comments, he said that Europeans, if they persisted in reality of the slaughter, should cede some of their territory for a Jewish state.
In October, Ahmadinejad called for Israel to be ““Wiped off the map.”
Is it any wonder that even some NATO countries are beginning to recognize the danger a nuclear-armed Iran poses to the entire region—particularly when the Iranian president is repeatedly threatening to target a nuclear-armed Israel whose strongest ally is history’s most powerful military, a military that now has a convenient foothold in both Iraq and Aghanistan, and provisional allies in Turkey, Kuwait, and even Saudi Arabia…?
Interesting times ahead.
*****
related: PJM has a good round-up on the speculation that a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities could be in the offing.
(h/t Allah and Tom Pechinski)
a question for someone with better history skills than me–how did Hitler rise to power?
Could Ahmadinejad be using the same playbook?
Could saying outrageous things inspire a reaction against Iran that could be turned into iranian paranoia and nationalism?
I think Ahmadinejad is taking a page from Hitler, and not exactly following his path. Hitler demonstrated that it is easier to get people to hate than it is to love. Ahmadinejad is trying to get the Iranian population to unite against the rest of the world, possibly the first step in trying to gain direct control (or exert significance influence) of the Middle East.
The fact that Ahmadinejad is a terminal nutjob makes this very scary.
I wonder if fondue would solve the Ahmadinejad problem as it has solved so many other problems?
If so…what kind of cheese should be used?
While doing the gruuuuueling work of sitting by the pool and drinking margaritas last week, I struck up a conversation with an Iranian woman (currently in the US, family in Iran).
She said it scares her that Ahmadinejad is so obviously trying to stir up trouble. He is a smart man, and has for some reason decided to pick this fight with Europe, Israel, and the US. I don’t think the population is so easily united against the rest of the world. I think the Iranian population would like to be more united with the rest of the world. So why is he bringing this on them?
Ok, that’s all. Did I mention it was sunny and 82 degrees? And palm trees….
Hitler demonstrated that it is easier to get people to hate than it is to love.
Or maybe he is just taking a page from the Howard Dean playbook. Dean does the exact same thing – uses the rhetoric of hate to get his supporters into a delusional frenzy.
Jeff,
I thought the following was significant
As historically false as the Holocaust denials. But Western self-hating Leftists will all be nodding their heads at the one while reaching for the “We are unworthy” cat’o’nine tails for a few round of self-flagellation.
Good point, Mark, considering that Dean is as nutty as Ahmadinejad.
Chavez seems to be going there, too: http://tinyurl.com/ajeuq
“Global test” says what?
I am tired of anti-semites, and I am tired of hearing those intrepid souls, who dare to speak of the valid grievances some Middle Eastern Muslims have against Israel–being branded as anti-semites.
It cheapens the power of the word “anti-semite,” and will only tend to produce more of the genuine article. New fronts, such as Iran, being introduced into America’s War on Terror, will put further strain on the US military’s resources. Talk abounds of conscription being reinstated. True anti-semitism will grow along with exasperation at forced involvement in blood feuds of families not one’s own.
Americans who rescued skeletal Jews from Nazi concentration camps were and still are considered heroes, and rightly so. Americans stepping into the ages old conflict between Muslim and Jew, where suffering exists on both sides, is another matter. Patriotic Americans, though they are acting under orders and are making great personal sacrifices, are making the conflict more bloody and deadly by their involvement.
What if Muslim and Israeli adults would stop fighting with one another long enough to rescue and protect the Ugandan children being kidnapped and conscripted into devil Joseph Kony’s LRA? Perhaps this is too much to hope for. If it is, I would propose that America, except in the role of non-violent and impartial peacemaker, leave Jew and Mid-Eastern Muslim alone in their quarrels, and focus its attention on the children in Africa. (Musalaha is one good model of a program that is working to restore peace in the Mid-East.)
The Ugandan children need world intervention right now, and are defenseless, as much as the Jews in Nazi concentration camps were in the ‘40’s.
“Separated by a wide ocean from the nations of Europe and from the political interests which entangle them together, with productions and wants which render our commerce and friendship useful to them and theirs to us, it cannot be the interest of any to assail us, nor ours to disturb them. We should be most unwise, indeed, were we to cast away the singular blessings of the position in which nature has placed us, the opportunity she has endowed us with of pursuing at a distance from foreign contentions the paths of industry, peace and happiness; of cultivating general friendship and of bringing collisions of interest to the umpirage of reason rather than of force.” –Thomas Jefferson: 3rd Annual Message, 1803. ME 3:359
ISTM the main grievance most Mid-Eastern Moslems have against Israel is that it exists.
As for Jefferson, he was writing at a time when it took six weeks to cross that wide ocean. Nowadays you can do it in seven hours. Don’t you think that might alter the situation somewhat? And, as I recall, Jefferson didn’t find that ocean prohibitively wide when it came to taking action against the terror-supporting states of his day: remember, “The Shores of Tripoli”?
TW near
<blockquote>Talk abounds of conscription being reinstated.</blockquote>Take that up with Charlie Rangel. Nobody on the right (and, more importantly, nobody in the Pentagon) is talking about that.
Please update your scare tactics/talking points, miraclewhip. Something about the NSA “illegally” spying on your grandma’s phone conversations would be a bit more topical.
I wonder if fondue would solve the Ahmadinejad problem as it has solved so many other problems?
If so…what kind of cheese should be used?
I’m going with Gruyere. Unfortunately, I’ve always found the different varieties of Swiss cheese difficult to melt evenly without the assistance of Fuel-Air Explosives. Sure it’s expensive, but when entertaining a prominent head(case) of state like Ahmadinejad, you don’t want to skimp. I’d hate for him to think we aren’t “fondue” him.
And for those of you as hung over as I am this morning, the little “b” in the comments control panel stands for “bold,” not “block quote.”
tw: will. “Wow, looks like Jeff will change the block-quote format for the new year!” Or not.
That’s cool, but what the heck does this have to do with Ahmadinejad?
This is what intrigues me with some people: how they can hold cpnflicting views at the same time.
Two examples:
The Holocaust did not happen.
The Holocaust is continuing with Israel amid Muslim states.
Jews lived peacefully with Muslims.
Jews living with Muslims will be killed.
One just can’t reason with someone with such thought-processes.
miraclewhip, why are you dredging up this long discredited point? We aren’t discussing the anti-semitism of Iran in order to justify protecting Israel or Jews. We are discussing this because Iran threatens much of the world. We protecting American interests. That this includes Israel and Jews is immaterial.
And I second Sean M. Where did you read about reinstating the draft?
TW: possible. It’s possible that you are clueless.
Ayup, and we coboys invaded the Middle East ‘cuz we heard they might be Injuns theah…
Miraclewhip  You remind me of the shrill woman I met at a march who wanted to know why Bush didn’t send troops to Africa to “end female circumcision.”
Aside from questioning how it helps the rights of women to send Marines and Rangers to look up their skirts, this is the same dodge you’re pulling; and like that shrill woman, I see no reason to believe you give a rat’s posterior about the children of Uganda or the refugees of Darfur or anything except scoring points on Bush for not addressing a different problem than he’s addressing.
Well, Hitler rose to power in a parliamentary system, getting about one third of the seats. As the largest single party, he was able to get an appointment as Chancellor.
At that point, and this is probably the oddest part, Brownshirts (the SA) were used to keep representatives out of Parliament, while the Nazis “passed” a set of laws essentially overthrowing the government.
I’m not sure if the situation’s really parallel, though—Hitler’s rabble-rousing was mostly directed to getting the 1/3 election to put him in control of the government; Ahmadinejad already is in the government.
That all the world’s great peoples deserve morally equivalent nukes.
(Now that Ahmadinejad’s gone all racist, it’ll be harder for the usual leftist twats to defend Iran’s race to arms. Not impossible; harder. Counting down to Tillman, Dr. V, or some other fool in 5 … 4 … 3 …)
Boy, not much gets past that guy. Get him, Hugo Chavez, Howard Dean, the Kos kidz, and Bob Mugabe together for the ne plus ultra conspiracy theory fest.
Oh, and feed them fondue, lots of fondue; the Swiss economy could use a boost.
Phone Tech, I think it’s better to say that Ahmadinejad is trying to use Hitler’s techniques for redirecting the anger and frustration of people onto another target. Although, now that I think upon, Hitler was hardly original in that this is hardly new. Although Hitler did hone this to a fine art, damn his soul.
Mark (above) pointed out that Howard Dean is a better parallel, given that Dean ”…uses the rhetoric of hate to get his supporters into a delusional frenzy.”
The_Real_JeffS, I think you’re right. I sort of lost the forest of strategy in the trees of minutae.
Nuke Iran? Lebanon? Syria?
Comes with all those Roamings, Phone Tech……
Crap, I just put my DCUs away for good. I guess if I make it to Iran, I’ll need a lead-lined lab outfit more than camo, yes?
Don’t worry, Major John. I put my DCUs away for good as well. We’ll get issued the new ACUs anyway.
To: Sean_M and The_Real_Jeff
Re: Reinstating Draft
<blockquote>Talk abounds of conscription being reinstated.</blockquote>
* hits self upside the head * Oh, sorry. IWTFOC.
All I said was “talk abounds.” I made no specifications as to the folk amongst whom it was abounding. It CERTAINLY isn’t going to be heard (in PUBLIC anyway) from spokesman from the Right, who are trying at the moment to bolster lagging public enthusiasm for the war. This purpose would not be served by an inadvised tipping of the hand about future military conscription, part and parcel of every empire-building enterprise.
No, the talk of conscription abounds among (not so) “shrill women” like myself, who (along with their husbands), until recently, were rather proud of their little boys’ interest in playing soldier or cop, and who, by nicknames and selection of playthings, etc, encouraged their children’s aspirations toward careers in military service. For generations in both my family and in my husband’s, service in the military has been held in very high regard. Until recently, we would’ve been proud to see our son go into the army. Now, we are joining the throngs of parents who, along with being The Anti-Drug for our kids, are serving as The Anti-Recruiters as well.
In economically depressed areas, military recruiters don’t have to work all that hard. But the military won’t be able to swell its ranks forever with the likes of Lynndie England just to make quota. Standards of excellence must be upheld.
Eventually, if the US Empire is allowed to continue to grow worldwide, its need for personnel to overcome resistance to building the Empire will grow as well. Military conscription must and will overcome the resistance of mothers like myself.
From: the Halls of Montezuma
To: xj and jeff_mcenroe
Yes, Jefferson recognized that pirates were terrorists, and that the US should have a navy to stop them, wherever in the world they were interfering with US interests.
There’s a difference between a little boy who becomes a pirate and a little boy (or girl) who becomes a modern-day Al Quaeda-style terrorist, though.
Whoever heard of a little boy becoming a pirate on the high seas because he was bitter at being thrown off ancestral lands (in Jaffa, or Deir Yassin, for example) and having to spend his childhood in a refugee camp, with no hope for the future?
The solution isn’t to wage war against the full grown version of this desperation. That will only result in another generation of desperation, more deeply entrenched, seething, and dangerous.
The solution is to counteract the sort of hatred expressed by the Muslim Ahmadinejad (and his Jewish counterparts) before it can poison another generation.
A Jeffersonian (and Constitutional) role for American troops in the Middle East (and in Uganda for brain-washed youth rescued from the LRA) would be as Protectors over the processes “of cultivating general friendship and of bringing collisions of interest to the umpirage of reason rather than of force.”
That is, American troops would stand guard as 1) Ugandan children were deprogrammed of the twisted and pseudo-Christianity with which they were inflicted in the LRA which causes them to fear and hate EVERYONE 2) Muslim and Jewish children would be reconciled, being released from the corrupted versions of their own religious heritages, corruptions which cause them to fear and hate each other.
To: Mcenroe.
Re: You remind me of a shrill woman I met on a march…
In a very soft voice, I tell you. While I don’t believe mutiliation belongs in any culture’s rite of passage, I don’t see the point in bringing on mutilation to prevent mutilation. The Iraq war casualty counts don’t reflect the precise number of American teenaged legs blown off in Iraq, to be replaced by life-long, and agonizing, phantom pains where the limbs used to be.
miraclewhip:
<blockquote><i>No, the talk of conscription abounds among (not so) “shrill women†like myself, who (along with their husbands), until recently, were rather proud of their little boys’ interest in playing soldier or cop, and who, by nicknames and selection of playthings, etc, encouraged their children’s aspirations toward careers in military service. </i></blockquote>
Ah, I see. So you are ignoring the article you linked to, as well as the often stated opinion of many soldiers (e.g., me), who despise the draft. All so you can wring your hands in private, and worry when the jackbooted storm troopers break down your doors down, and drag your screaming children off to war.
Perhaps I am being overly dramatic, but I do believe that you are being overly paranoid.
One of the better counterpoints to your whinge is in your linked article:
But this means nothing to you, of course. All of this in spite of a good economy, which is usually the antithesis to meeting recruiting standards.
Mine too. Me as well. Just to put things into perspective, you understand.
Only recently? Not since Vietnam? Hmmmmm….a late blossomer, perhaps? Or is Iraq worse than Vietnam?
<blockquote><i>Eventually, if the US Empire is allowed to continue to grow worldwide, its need for personnel to overcome resistance to building the Empire will grow as well. Military conscription must and will overcome the resistance of mothers like myself. </i></blockquote>
OK, miraclewhip, what US Empire? Seriously. Where? Our troops in Germany are forcing the German Government to support the war by sending troops? Do you think that we are still occupying Japan? Is South Korea a vassal state?
I think you are serious in your stated intentions. But I also think that you are seeing monsters under your bed. I don’t know that you need medical attention, but you sure sound like you are playing to your own fears.
Color me unimpressed with your rhetoric.
TW: Get out into the sun more often.
Uh, you got me, especially since any kid who was at Deir Yassin would be at least 60. Kind of old for a pirate on the high seas.
But what really interests me is that you assume that a child who grew up in a refugee camp has no hope for the future? My mother-in-law’s family grew up in a refugee camp. They lost all their property on the way. She did all right. In fact everyone in the refugee camp did well enough so that it’s called a town these days.
I used to live in a former refugee camp (today it’s called a neighborhood). It wasn’t so bad, and nobody I ever met there had “no hope for the future”. Why did they turn out relatively OK, with no terrorism? Is it just because they were Jews?
“That is, American troops would stand guard as 1) Ugandan children were deprogrammed of the twisted and pseudo-Christianity with which they were inflicted in the LRA which causes them to fear and hate EVERYONE 2) Muslim and Jewish children would be reconciled, being released from the corrupted versions of their own religious heritages, corruptions which cause them to fear and hate each other.”
Wow, so our troops should do this? How exactly? Do we take over the educating of children in foreign nations forcibly? Having jackboots in Miami wasn’t enough, we need to kidnap children and have the “re-educated for their own good”? Let me guess, “its for the children, so its ok”?
We shouldn’t be in Iraq, we should just “deprogram” the world of the ideas that you think are wrong? BRILLIANT, and not at all egotistical, fascist, or overbearing. I’m sure all the Countries in the world will understand why their civilians need to be “deprogrammed” from what you believe to be bad ideas. Best of luck with your solution.
The_Real_Jeff: Yes, I was an exceedingly late blossomer. I encouraged people to vote for Bush in 2000, and to support military involvement in the Middle East military.
Thanks for the concern about my dose of sunshine, but, not to worry, I only post when the sun goes down. I do not post while the sun is shining, using time that belongs to my employer, as is the wont of some.
I’m not paranoid, I’m hopeful that things can turn around! I wouldn’t bother posting if I didn’t have that hope. This’ll be my last post of the day. Promise.
“We’re an Empire now.” Hadn’t you heard?
Maor: There are overcomers in every race.
Gekkobear: No, no, you’ve missed the point. The children in Uganda have ALREADY been forcibly removed from their parents by Joseph Kony’s LRA. The military’s protective role would involve keeping these children from being abducted again during treatment, and preventing the abduction of other children.
An abducted child’s “initiation” into Kony’s army involves forced participation in the raping, beating, murder and mutilation of other children, and oftentimes of his own parents and siblings. The child is then told by Kony’s men that, because of the things he’s just done, he will NEVER be accepted back into his old village, and thus he is psychologically and spiritually manipulated into deeper bondage to Kony. Children aged 4-12 are the prime targets here, bear in mind.
Do you understand now that the psychological “deprogramming” process is a compassionate road to restoring these badly damaged children to wholeness? Parents whose children have been stolen and twisted in this way BRING their children, who have managed to escape, to deprogramming centers, begging for their help.
In the Mideast, where it is the parents *themselves* who are poisoning their own children, Muslims training their kids to hate Jews, and Jews training their children to hate Muslims, there is far less that an American military presence will be able to accomplish. This is precisely why, in the first post I made to this thread, I suggested that troops currently stationed in the Mideast could be doing more good in Uganda.
Forgiveness, and only forgiveness between Muslim and Jew will ever bring peace to that land, and American-side-choosing militates AGAINST the forgiveness that is so essential to peace in the Mideast.
TW: That’s my answer, miraclewhip.
TW: Word, the last one, which is mine:
If you keep rolling your eyeballs in that silly manner long enough, you’ll never be able to get them to stop. EVER.
miracle whip-
What if we went in to save the children, and Kony’s people started plantin IEDs to kill our soldiers and suicide bombing the Ugandan families, police forces, schools, and hospitals?
Yes, but for Jews the overcomers seem to be 100%. Which I pointed out in my previous post.
And have you heard about desperate German refugees recently? Me neither. Germans also seem to have a 100% overcoming rate.
How about Vietnamese kids with no hope living in the refugee camps of the US? I haven’t heard a thing.
Do you know of any precedent for refugee camps even existing after 20 years? Because Palestinian “refugee camps” are 57 years old. Of course, virtually none of the residents are old enough to have ever been refugees. And Arab kids who didn’t grow up in “refugee camps” also seem to be interested in terrorism. Why is this? [This is a rhetorical question. I don’t really want information from someone who gives such a naive analysis of the Israel-Arab conflict]
BTW, why is the LRA different than Saddam’s Iraq? Besides being much smaller and less threatening, I mean.
Maor asks:
1.) The CIA didn’t put Joseph Kony in power.
2.) “Where else in the world can you find 20,000 to 30,000 children kidnapped and forced to fight and serve as sex slaves?”
3.) Despite the all too tangible evidence of Unganda’s desperate condition, the LRA is on “Tier Two” of the Bush administration’ Terrorist Exclusion List, which basically means, it isn’t considered worthy of the United States’ attention. Iraq, despite lack of evidence to support its status as builder of WMD and aider and abettor of Al-Qaeda, was and still is considered a much higher security threat.
4) Please understand, I am NOT recommending that the U.S. military conduct a Shock and Awe style military operation in Uganda. I am recommending that, while people like Betty Bigombe, who are working to negotiate with the LRA, military support (and I mean very, very low key military support) be given to those who are trying to stand guard over the rest of the Ugandan population.
MayBee: Sadly that’s not as remote a possibility as it sounds at first blush, given Joseph Kony’s late chumminess with the Sudanese Muslims who brought the slaughter in Darfur.
Please see part 4 of my answer to maor. This is an approach that could’ve spared the U.S. a world of hurt had it been followed in the Middle East. We could have avoided the attack on the USS Cole, the World Trade Center attack in ‘93, and 911.
America SHOULDN’T be choosing sides in other peoples’ civil wars, but instead should be working to protect the innocent, and promoting reasoned negotion between warring factions. Even the latter approach goes a bit beyond the degree of involvement in foreign affairs recommended by the Constitution and Jefferson, but that approach seems to be where the moral high ground lies. It also seems a more logical route to worldwide security than does the perpetual of eternal warfare.
I meant perpetuation, not perpetual. Sorry.