Rox Populi wants to know what would it take for the Dems to get your vote in ‘06 and ‘08? Serious answers only, please. And if you can manage it, post your responses onto both sites.
My answer, which I left in the comments at RP:
In 2000 I didn’t care who won, though I disliked Gore, who seemed impossibly artificial.
But now, after 5 years of listening to Dems, there is absolutely nothing they can do to win me back short of purging their entire leadership and nuking their base from orbit.
It’s the only way to be sure.
And yes, I consider that to be a serious answer.
Because the fact is, I can’t trust Democrats to protect US interests; hell, I can barely trust Republicans do so—but at least they seem committed to the belief that our interests are worth protecting.
And if I’m going to try to influence one of the two political bases, I’m more interested in moving the bluenose social cons toward the center than I am in trying to force the vehemently anti-progressive “progressive” socialists and totalitarians to ease back on speech restrictions, identity politics appeals, and the desire for a huge, centralized nanny welfare state controlled by bureaucratic elites schooled in anti-capitalist political principles.
Of course, what bothers me about the Miers nomination is that it appears to be an instance of George Bush finding an evangelical who will be tough on porn and abortion (which social cons will find appealing), but will prove to be “moderate”—or at least deferential—on affirmative action and other proportional-based moves toward social-engineering, policy initiatives that reinforce identity politics and the diversity movement, two things that regular readers of this site know I find to be anti-American in their systemic rebuke of individualism and individual rights and so, for me, at least, are completely unacceptable.
Hearing Ed Gillespie and Kay Bailey Hutchison (and, to a lesser extent, the President himself) appealing to these very things recently in their defense of Miers made me throw up a little in my mouth.
You kidding me. I would love to see Hillary in office, for the entertainment value if nothing else. Let’s put her out there as our Commander in Chief so we can see what a complete freaking Socialist she really is. If we can live with Jimmy Carter for four years, hell, how much damage can Hillary do.
Wait a minute, let me rethink this. I think the vodka is affecting my ability to think rationally.
If they officially realized we’re at war and ran somebody like Lieberman. Maybe.
Aw, who am I kiddin’.
As a long time lesser-evil man, I do believe I’d vote for Hillary if the Republicans nominate McCain.
OT:I just did a belated post about girl bloggers, who are just objects for me to use and then discard.
My comment:
Joe Lieberman would have to start kicking ass and taking names in his own party and throw off the shackles of MoveOn, Media Matters, etc. If there is still a war on (don’t EVEN act like it might not still be raging three years from now), pledge to fight it as though it were frigging WW2 and end it decisively, and then tell me he was slashing the federal machine by 20% in his first term or he’ll kill himself live on national TV. Oh, and destroy Homeland Security altogether and design a system that worked.
I’d vote for that. Maybe. If he also promised to beat Nancy Pelosi every time she said something stupid.
It would require Democrats rallying behind a nominee who:
1. Defended and lauded the Iraq war, in it’s legality, goals, motivation and strategic vision, with reasoned criticism of its execution and constructive suggestions for improvement;
2. Embraced a pro-growth, restrained-if-not-low tax economic philosophy;
3. Rejected affirmative-action, or its stain on American ideals, its corrosiveness to American race relations, and the harm it does to minorities;
4. Proposed rigorous enforcement actions against employers hiring of illegal immigrants.
Which, more or less means it would require their nominating Zell Miller.
I’m serious. The chances of my believing any other Democrat who made such committments are essentially zero.
Call it battered wife syndrome, but as many things as have dissapointed me about Bush, I am utterly convinced that any Democrat besides Miller would be worse.
Maybe we got ‘em demoralized.
I used to be a fool who sometimes voted Democrat and sometimes Republican. Unfortunately for the Democrats, once the mainstream media lost control of the American information spigot, the scales fell from my eyes.
I can now see the insidious effect of socialism and the pervasive, hypnotic, orwellian effect of the old stalinist propaganda so beloved of the left. Our so-called history, culture and media have been tainted with this diseased logic to a shocking extent–from the myth of the innocence of the Rosenbergs to the culture of victimhood to Miller’s Death of a Salesman.
What do the Democrats have to offer? They’re a party in decay. They’re not even remotely liberal. They’re left: moderate left or radical left. And they have no charisma. Joe Lieberman’s in the wrong party and Hillary Clinton was a stooge for the SDS. Bill Clinton is enough to make a nannie goat gag.
I would now cut off my hand before I would vote with the Democrats. Liberal values are currently the preserve of the Republican party, which is where I’ll align myself for the foreseeable future.
wwtd
What would Todd Do?
Even a young Clint Eastwood would quickly tire applying such a continuous beating.
Unfortunately, one great candidate could make voting for a democrat acceptable. Zell would have to promise that no more than 50% of his cabinet would be democrats, and then they would have to be from state governments, not from DC.
I voted for Clinton in ‘92 and was anti-Clinton by the time of his inauguration when I saw the number of Carter
retardsretreads being considered for cabinet positions.TW: A mind is a terrible thing.
Game over man, game over. I don’t know if you were paying attention, but we just got our asses kicked.
/bill paxton at his finest
I’d have to see some concrete proof that the leadership of the Democrat party was going to publicly repudiate MoveOn, the DU fringe, and Michael Moore, and move some provably pro-defense adults back into the forefront of the party.
Firing Howard Dean and telling George Soros to (in so many words) cram his money up his ass would be a couple of steps in the right direction.
My comment was:
Roxanne,
Howard Dean has called me an evil idiot, Ted Kennedy and the Congressional Black Caucus have implied I’m a rabid racist, and Michael Moore and the lefty blogosphere believe I enjoy killing American servicemen for the sake of being able to drive a big honkin’ SUV over the backs of various endangered species and native peoples.
I’m a moderate and I am repulsed by the games that BOTH sides play, but rarely have I been so roundly insulted, marginalized, pigeonholed, and dismissed as in the last two years by the left’s leadership.
I like some of the things that the Democrats used to promote, but recently they seem able to voice just one thing: BUSH IS EVIL. That’s not a platform. It’s not an agenda. It’s not a direction. It’s not a plan. Blind hatred and negativity don’t sell, don’t win, and don’t move anything forward.
So I’m not sure what I’d need to vote Dem in light of the hyper-negativity from the left, but a renewed focus on basics, a COMPLETE cessation of anti-Bush bullshit, and few heartfelt apologies would help.
TW: An apology written in blood
I voted for Wellstone! when he first ran for Senator. Oh well… I beg forgiveness!
What could Democrats (Democrat Farmer Labor party in Minnesota) do to earn my vote?
Unambiguously defend the 2nd Amendment from infringement as they do the 1st Amendment’s speech portion with regard to the press and artists.
Advocate a policy of tax code simplification across the board.
Advocate a policy of school choice.
Advocate a strong military and back it up with stopping attempts to curtail military recruiters’ access to public schools and universities that receive federal funds. Also, squash attempts with the party base to further shrink the military from its already too small size. Also, advocate a policy of continuing US military supremacy.
Advocate freer trade, eliminating tariffs. Including and especially agricultural subsidies.
Advocate strengthening US borders.
Advocate policies to get illegal immigrants to return home.
I’ll just start there and wait to see if they even try with those.
You have to understand that under no circumstance is the main stream Democratic party going to renounce the far left. They don’t have the numbers.
I commented thusly:
I sometimes view the Republican/Democratic dichotomy of American politics to be like a child custody dispute involving the American public. Dad’s the Republicans– he believes in responsibility, discipline, and tough love. Mom’s the Dems– she believes in sympathy, understanding, and second-chances. Sometimes Dad gets too bossy or the kids get restless and would do well to get a change of scenery by going to live with Mom for awhile–if she were sane.
Right now I couldn’t trust Mom. She spends all day calling Dad names, insisting beyond sanity that Dad’s a “liar” (like that’ll get the kids to hate Dad too), she’ll sleep with virtually anybody as long as they hate Dad, she’s cynically opposed to things she used to like (like nation-building, support for Israel, spread of democracy and human rights) because Dad put his money where Mom’s mouth used to be (no crudity intended).
What to do to get my vote? Dems would have to unambiguously repudiate Dean and the revived 1960s anti-war Left. They would have to publicly implore them to leave the party and vote Green. They would have to willingly forego those votes. That would be a start.
You acknowledge that Americans don’t want to fight a war and lose. And that daily bad “news” from Iraq contributes to low popularity for the war. But all you suggest Dems would offer is a plan to leave Iraq with our cajones allegedly intact. (Like that act of retreat would end international terrorism and quell radical Islam’s declared war on the U.S.) What about resolving to win the F’n war and establish Middle East democracy through the Democrats’ alternative strategy? You cannot have the anti-war and anti-Islamic terror blocs in the same tent.
At this point, nothing would make me vote for a Dem for President. We need a couple more election debacles to finally kill off the left and enable the Dems to become a viable American party again.
Long ago, a CA pol opened the legislature with “The legislature is now in session, and no man’s property is safe.” For congress, yes, I’d vote Dem, if only to destroy the one-party rule and gridlock them into fiscal sanity.
I can’t conceive of any Democratic candidate who could earn my support, who wouldn’t be torn apart by his own party. If Lieberman were black instead of Jewish, maybe he could survive by using his Ethnic Shield Of Defense +3; him, maybe I could see voting for if the conservative candidate was really bad.
For me the main issue is now and will for the foreseeable future be the war. There are hardly any Dems who are acceptable on the war, and none of them appear to have the nads to drag the party into sanity on the question.
I’m not what you’d really call a ‘moderate’, but for the pure intellectual exercize, what would it take to make me vote for a Democrat in ‘08?
It would have to be a candidate like Zell Miller or Bobby Denton, who then does one or more of the following:
* Announces an official policy of supporting regime change by any and all means in Syria, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, France, and the US State Department.
* Runs on a campaign slogan of, “Get a f*cking job, hippies!”
* Conducts a lengthy investigation of all allegations of prisoner abuse and disrespect of Islam at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, which then culminates in a finding of “Frankly, who gives a shit?”
* Promises to personally serve eviction notice to current occupants of UN Building, said eviction to be enforced by strafing.
* Puts shotgun barrel in mouth of Palestine Authority representative, saying, “You’ve explained your position to me, Achmed, now explain it to Mr. Browning!”
* Opens speech to the National Organization for Women with a scowl and the line, “Why the hell isn’t my supper ready?”
* In all official diplomatic statements, consistently refers to current Chinese leadership as ‘them Red bastards’.
And, yeah, that’s all meant seriously.
It occurred to me while thinking about this that we really don’t need a resurgence of the Democratic Party, the Republicans have already filled the void. The problem with the Dems is they have been pushed so far left by the Republican encroachment they have lost touch with anything remotely “mainstream”. I mean anyone who calls W an extreme right winger is fucking nuts, I would place him somewhere between JFK and LBJ on a political spectrum. I don’t know what is going to happen, but it seems to me we need a serious fiscally conservative party more than anything right now.
For me, a Dem candidate would simply take a look at Daily Kos. Then stay the heck away from anything the Kos posters think is a good idea, an important issue, good framing, or a viable plan.
They could come up with some plan for real fiscal responsibility rather than simply asserting they are now the party of fiscal responsibility while proposing more new spending.
They would be willing to treat taxpayers in the higher brackets with gratitude rather than scorn.
They would have to be willing to face social ills and change the problems along with asking for money to ‘cure’ the social ills. Which yes, means some personal responsibility.
They would tone down the rhetoric. Kerry lost me with his “George Bush is tearing the heart out of the heartland” kind of BS.
Here’s my post over there:
Hmm, well, haven’t voted Democrat for um,, well, ever. I’m pretty disappointed in the Republicans of late, but there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that the Democrats are offering in my interests. I suppose they could completely dissolve,and a new entity that coincidentally called itself the Democrat Party could coalesce, one that didn’t have Pelosi/Kennedy/Reid/Hillary/Jesse Jackson/Sharpton/Michael Moore etc etc as their moral leaders.
In other words, when pigs fly out my ass, and sing sweet gospel music.
Dems, do everything in your power to distance yourself from people like this. Then we’ll talk.
1. Promise the implementation of the Fair Tax and elimination of Social Security and the Medicare Drug Benefit.
2. Promise televised jihadi death matches to determine who gets released from Guantanamo.
I’m was sure that I’d never vote for a Democrat, but now I know I would if one of them just used the phrase “ethnic shield of defense +3.” That’s funny.
Although I probably wouldn’t be considered a moderate I haven’t been averse to voting for Democrats in the past. I cried when Jimmy Carter lost (I was too young to vote), I voted for Mondale and Dukakis and as close to a straight-party Dem ticket as I possibly could have in the very Republican state I lived in during those two elections. I didn’t vote in ‘92 or ‘96 but would have voted for Clinton in ‘92. I even voted for Harry Reid for Senate once. Now let me show you my perception of the Democrat party today.
Howard Dean, the DNC chairman, has said of the current political climate
Harry Reid took the occasion of a discussion of Senate rules with a group of high school students to express himself thusly,
He later apologized for this comment but explicitly refused to apologize for also calling the President of the United States a “liar.”
And, finally, from the very politically astute and normally congenial <a href=”http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/26/dems.clinton.transcript/”>Bill Clinton </a>last year at the Democratic National Convention,
Statements like these, and believe me I could find dozens more if I wanted to spend the time, and the actions of elected Democrats (judicial filibusters, to name just one example) reveal to me that the Democrats, or at least their national leaders, don’t see their differences with Republicans as merely policy disputes between well-meaning people. Rather, they see these differences as arising from sinister motives on the part of Republicans. Until the Dems can come to grips with the fact that there are intelligent, well-informed, honest, and well-intentioned people that can disagree with them, they will be unable to honestly evaluate their beliefs and policies and present alternatives that will make me consider voting for one.
My response over there:
The Democrats have insulted me out of the party, and judging from the continuing voluminous screeching, they want to keep it that way. If they want to give the message that they are against any and all religion except Islam, then message received and acknowledged. Islam we must try to understand, you see, but Christians can be demonized and insulted just for fun. Fine, just don’t expect my vote. Ever.
Give more than lip service to ending illegal immigration. NO amnesty. Drop that word from their vocabulary.
My money is my money, it does not belong to the government. You don’t “pay” for tax cuts, you cut spending, and I wish that the Republicans would do that more, but I don’t dare dream that the Democrats would do it at all. Everyone who pays income tax got a tax cut, not just the mega-wealthy and the Democrats need to quit lying about that.
Duct tape Michael Moore’s pie hole. Cindy Sheehan too, while you are at it. The rank anti-Semitism of the left is too much. It makes the old conspiracy nut-job fundamentalist preacher Carl MacIntyre look sane, and I didn’t think that could ever be done. Every time they open their mouth, I hear the Democrats moving farther away from me.
Quit living in denial of media bias. Fake but accurate, my butt. Fake is inaccurate, by definition.
I live in Virginia where the Democrats would only be slightly to the left of the center of the national Republicam party and the Republicans lean way to the right on many social issues. So I end up voting for a lot of Dems in local elections. I’ve voted for a Dem for Senator before and easily could again. But I have a hard time believing that the Dems could put up a candidate for president that I could vote for. (Can we dig up Scoop Jackson?) Despite all of my disappointments with Bush and the Republicans, the idea that the Dems will be able to convince me that they are more serious on defense and better on domestic spending … hard ot believe.
I’ll bite. Hi, I’m G. Bob and you might remember me from such voting blocs as “Clinton ‘92” and the less popular “Clinton ‘96”. You know, back before the Democratic party showed that they couldn’t be trusted with a law firm in Arkansas, let alone a nation. Good times.
I had been voting against Republicans my whole life. I admired the Democratic party for it’s support of the civil rights movement. I applauded the party for it’s support of free speech. I stood with it as a check against those who would try to impose their religious and moral views on me. I supported it for the memories of visionaries in spreading democracy and human rights across the globe.
The fact that many in the Democratic party can’t see that they no longer stand for those things is why I will never vote for another Democrat for a long while.
Instead of trying to create a color blind society where all have equal access, the modern Democratic party panders to race-baiters and destroys the years of hard work that got us to the point we are today. Quotas have become a means unto themselves, rather than a tool to correct a great wrong. When people of color, like Clarence Thomas or Condoleeza Rice rise to power they are torn down by the Democratic party. Shameful.
Democrats once stood for freedom of expression. Now they stand for laws that limit speech. They have created a society where one is afraid to speak without fear of someone being offended.
It’s no longer the Moral Majority I have to fear. It’s the Nanny state. From laws against video games to regulations on drugs and alcohol, it’s the Democrats who hand out the scarlet letters. Instead of claiming God as their driving moral force, they now say “it’s to protect children”.
As for spreading freedom and democracy…..well, that speaks for itself. Because of one man in the white house, there are 50 million people in the world who have been able to vote for the first times in their lives. Women are no longer stoned in Afghanistan for the crime of wearing nail polish. The rape squads in Iraq have been shut down and for one brief shining moment, a chance for a better world is at hand. Perhaps I could have forgiven the Democrats if they sat on their hands and did nothing, like the Republicans did in WW2. They didn’t. They have instead decided to do everything in their power to undermine the war on terror and American effectiveness abroad.
No, I don’t think the Dems will ever win me back. Instead they’ll pay lip service to the Nascar crowd and become once then what they were before. I’m not a Republican, but I sure as hell will never be a Democrat again.
errr…that should end “and become worse than what what they were before”. Stupid whiskey.
If, when Democrats are discussing terrorists, the word “understand” is consistently followed by the words “how the enemy thinks”, I might remotely consider voting for a Dem a decade or two from now. Otherwise I’m with G. Bob and his stupid whiskey.
I never had electoral relations with that woman, Ms. Democrat Party, not ever.
I guess if I had a spike driven through my head that caused permanent brain damage that caused my entire personality and mental capacity to change, it might be possible, but I doubt it. I have family and friends, y’know, and I hope they wouldn’t let me.
Barring a spike right through my head, I guess I’d have to be one of those dead people voting. They DO vote Democrat, y’know.
How f’n awesome is it that the Turing word is soviet?! hahahaaaaa
Wait, why am I even answering the question? I’m not a “moderate,” and never have been.
My comment:
Having voted both Republican and Democrat at all levels (heck, I’ve even voted Libertarian!), I suppose I’m a moderate.
I will likely continue to vote that way on local elections.
However, I have found it, since 1997, very difficult to vote moderate on the state level, and impossible to do so at the Federal level. The 2000 Presidential election merely confirmed my analysis. Further idiocy at the state level has me looking at Libertarian candidates far more closely than I would have thought a mere 10 years ago.
Frankly, I’m fairly certain that the DNC will not get my vote (at the state and Federal) ever again. Between Kerry, Clinton, Clinton, Dean, Reid, Byrd, Kennedy, Boxer, Pelosi, Rangel, Murray…..aw, hell, just about all of the current DNC big names! Between all of them, I’m convinced that the DNC is in the middle of a major meltdown, and is so brain dead as to not realize it.
Fix that little problem, and I’ll be listening.
Look, Jeff is entirely missing the point – we’re all just mind-numbed drones who voted for Bush (twice) because of the Rovian Mind Control rays.
All the Democrats have to do to get US ALL, Each And Every One Of Us, to vote for Democrats in 06 and 08 is to replace Bob Shrum with someone, anyone, who has an actual clue.
That would be the political equivalent of what the Red Sox did bringing in a young GM, shaking things up, and winning.
Of course, they could screw up and bring in Kos, in which case that would be like the Redskins with Daniel Snyder.
It’s the New Millenium, candidates don’t matter anymore.
G Bob…I’m not going to start a debate about history, but your wrong about which party led the civil rights movement. History revised in the class room and via media, has white washed the truth.
Other wise your post is spot on.
I’m with Beth. The spike is probably the only way I’d vote Democratic – and I WAS a moderate way back in the gray area of my life. Moderate hell, I was way left when I seceded from college.
Having had a period of about ten years without the serial abuse of almost all things illegal, I think Michael Savage is right. Drugs and alcohol make you mentally ill because they alter the fundamental realities, and no one will convince me that the KosKids are not at the least smoking some serious weed.
I was going to respond, but then I saw the “serious answers only” caveat. Basically, never.
As I was pondering the recent and extremely pleasant LACK of Cindy Sheehan in the news, I added this thought over at Rox Populi:
Roxanne, one more for the dying thread: Vietnam & Iraq comparisons. Vietnam *was* a quagmire, but our involvement kept the communist north from taking over. Anti-war protests successfully turned public opinion and we pulled out. The result? Thousands of living US servicemen and MILLIONS of dead SE Asians. Millions.
Now it’s 2005 and we’re committed to a new war, one in which the stakes are much higher. Cindy Sheehan is working tirelessly to change public opinion and have us pull out, with most if not ALL of the left behind her. Will she and her allies be responsible for the deaths of millions in the Middle East? A renewal of bloody repression, pogroms, and ethnic and religious hatred? Stay tuned to find out.
We’re had troops in Germany and Japan for 60 years—since WWII. I anticipate the democratization of the Middle East will take *far longer*. Give me a Democratic candidate that understands this.
Q: What can I do to prove to you that I’m human!
Lt. Worf: Die.
Until the democrats regain their sanity, they don’t have a chance, with me anyway.
They need to throw Mad How out on his ass through the back door, tell MoveOn, International Answer and the rest of the leftist lunatic fringe to go to hell. They need to realize that we are involved in a serious war and actually support the US and western democratic principles. They should abandon their use of envy and class warfare in domestic politics which only serves to divide us. Maybe they can actually propose policies and positions. How about supporting a flat tax? How about nominating judges who will interpret the law and not try to legislate from the bench? How about not fillibustering and acting like children having a tantrum when someone they don’t like is nominated to a high position. How about believing in the ‘rule of law.’Maybe trying to protect our second amendment rights instead of trying to take them away. Forget about affirmative action. They need to quit trying to introduce international law into the American court system. They need to support continued American control of the internet, which has lately come under fire. They need to get over their Bush derangement syndrome and act like responsible and rational adults. How about not being such sanctimonious and smug elitist assholes. They need to publicly bitch-slap Nancy Pelosi and tell her to shut up. While they’re at it, they should bitch-slap Teddy Kennedy, tell him to shut up, sit down, have a scotch and seriously think about how he acted at Chappaquidick(sp?).
The list goes on and on, but who are we kidding?
What do the Dems have to do to get my vote? Hell, I’m gonna vote for whomever they nominate, just as long as they don’t repudiate those Kos Kidz or dump that clever Howard Dean!
And I just want to assure all you donks that I would never do something like that Lucy does to poor trusting Charlie Brown every year, and pull the other lever at the last moment, leaving you flat on your back, as it were. Or vote for a roadkilled possum if that was what was running against you. That’s just so not-me. Ain’t gonna happen.
So just stay the course. Show some cojones… nominate Dean!! And Kos for VP! You’ve got my vote sewed up – no need to change in any way. Honest.
>cunningdeviousness
I could vote for a Democrat for President that:
* Repudiated Dean, Kos, DU and…
* Believed in the Bush Doctrine re Democracy in the Middle East….and
* Endorsed the Fair Tax Act…..and
* Declared the “War on Drugs” a disaster, a failed experiment and offerred a comprehensive plan for legalizing drug use…..and
* 100% supported the School Voucher Program….and
* Advocated a gradual elimination of the Social Security and Medicare Program…..and
* Stated that the most important and primary function of the Federal Government was to protect its citizens from harm – National Defense
I guess I would vote for anyone who advocated these positions regardless of the party they represented. I would be curious to see if such a someone actually had a chance to be elected.
If McCain were nominated for the top slot, I’d vote against him. Certainly if the Dem were Lieberman, and possibly even if it were H. Clinton.
Or I might just stay home that day.
“Son, there are two kinds of people in this world. Fighters and quitters.
Your going to run into situations in your life that are unpleasant. Bad things will happen and you’ll get discouraged. Things won’t always go as you thought they would or even as you planned. But when the day is its darkest and you’re feeling like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, that’s when I want you to quit whatever it is you’re doing, even if it means millions will die.
Do you honestly think we’d have this big house if I’d have hung around that sinking car and tried to save that drowning strumpet? You’ve got to know when to cut your losses Son.”
“Thanks Dad. I like your tie.”
I vote Fighters.
I take three issues into the voting booth: national security/defense, taxation, judicial appointments. In 40 years no Democrat has been able to win my vote based on those issues. Given the current crop of candidates and the philosophical/ideological drift of today’s Democratic party, I’m pretty sure that record will remain intact.
“It occurred to me while thinking about this that we really don’t need a resurgence of the Democratic Party, the Republicans have already filled the void. The problem with the Dems is they have been pushed so far left by the Republican encroachment they have lost touch with anything remotely “mainstreamâ€Â. I mean anyone who calls W an extreme right winger is fucking nuts, I would place him somewhere between JFK and LBJ on a political spectrum. I don’t know what is going to happen, but it seems to me we need a serious fiscally conservative party more than anything right now.”
Exactly, we’re electing Republicans, but many of them would have been moderate Democrats 30 or 40 years ago. We need a revived Republican Party [or a replacement], not Democratic Part, because the first has morphed into the latter and the latter is now almost a fifth collumn for transnational progressivism.
Buncha great comments, here. Most of them reflect my own thinking. I’d add just one other tidbit:
The Democrat Party would need to unambiguously repudiate gun control, work to start rolling back federal gun control laws, cease the villainization of both the gun industry and groups like the NRA, and fully embrace the Second Amendment as an broad individual right enforceable against overreaching government.
I added, for the edification of Roxanne’s readers, a link to the party platform documents of the last century. If you read the Democratic Platform from, say, the 1960 election when the iconic John F. Kennedy was elected, you’ll notice the great similarity that exists between the Democratic party as it existed then and the Republicans today.
Before I could consider voting for a democrat there would have to some democrats on the ticket! I don’t mean the socialists that now call themselves democrats, I mean democrats such as Harry Truman and Zell Miller. The socialists calling themselves democrats now have only one thing in mind and that is bankrupting those who have earned a living to give it to those who are too damn lazy to earn on. Gun control, nanny state, political correctness, dumbing down public education-should I go on? I think not.
But the current crop of republicans are not that much better. I think I will vote a straight libertarian ticket and waste my vote-unless that is that there are as many people out there as pissed as I am at both parties and decide to do the same.
Stop lying.
Everything else will fall into place after that.
TW: The Cajun chicken that lay before me was black as the soul of the woman who served it.
The Democratic party would need to become the same party it was during WWII. The party that defended America to the point where its enemies had to unconditionally surrender. The same needs to be done with these islamofascist thugs. The day the Democratic party becomes more interested in protecting the lives of Americans in comparison to the Republicans is the day that I will vote Democrat.
My Comment:
I waltzed into this thread from Protein Wisdom.
If I had been motivated enough to vote at the time, I would have voted for that sax-playing guy on MTV. By the time he got around to staining dresses and perjuring himself, I was disenchanted with the Democratic Party, but I didn’t hate them. I would have voted for Bush in 2000 if I had been motivated enough, but I wasn’t that motivated. It didn’t seem like either candidate would have made a difference, and it was simply a matter of choosing a lesser evil, so I stayed home.
Then came September of 2001, and I thanked God for the first time in my life for having the President we did. As the local papers announced funerals and memorials for those killed at Ground Zero, I became much more of a conservative, and a hawk.
Since then, I have watched the Democratic Party become shrill, myopic, and traitorous. They want to beat George Bush, and don’t give a damn what happens to this country, or others. They are willing to let 56 million people in two fledging democracies slip back over the edge into despotism for a perceived temporary political gain. Their behavior isn’t just traitorous against our country, it is an affront to humanity.
What can today’s Democratic Party do for me?
Die.
Until liberalism is purged from the Democratic Party and sent back to the sewers from which it came, I will never even consider voting for the Democratic Party (with the noted exceptions of Zell or Joe). I am a conservative. I am not happy with the Republicans, either, but until I have a better option, they will begrudgingly get my vote.
Here’s what the Dems would have to do:
1) Return to being adults when it comes to foreign policy and defense. Bring forth a strategy that is more than second guessing and fantasy. Five years after 9/11 I should have some idea of what the Dem strategy is to oppose terrorism. Is the Dept of Peace really the best answer?
2) Bring back fiscal sanity. This issue is yours for the taking as the Reps have abandoned it. Drop the class warfare rhetoric.
3) Don’t use the courts to set policy. I’m a supporter of gay marriage but I want it brought about legislativly. Talk to the people and convince them that it’s right. Counting on judges to solve and settle policy is anti-democratic.
4) Drop identity politics and pursue color blindness. Racism and sexism can be used by people of every color and gender. Oppose it in all forms.
5) Remember that the other side of the argument may be wrong, but isn’t necessarily evil. Yep, this drives me crazy from the Reps, too. Be the bigger person.
This would go a long, long way for me. It’d also win elections. Shame it won’t happen.
I was contemplating commenting, but:
1). About umpteen dozen people said what I would have said about natsec /foreign policy / activists; and
2). Judging from the general tenor of the non-righty / moderate commenters, the folks who need to listen most are the ones listening least.
At any rate, I no longer indulge in that hobby.
Moe
What would it take for me to vote for a Democrat for President? Nothing less than an act of God.
I forgot one little thing. They would have to give me a better option than “Bush-the lesser of two evils. vs Kerry-the evil of two lessers.”
I think this is Jeff’s best post to date.
This really articulates for me, better than I could, how I’ve felt seeing Howard Dean, Ted Kennedy, MoveOn, and Daily Kos take over the Dem Party.
It’s like what I would feel if the GOP made Pat Buchanan their national chair, Ann Coulter a Senator, and AynRand.com was suddenly not only taken seriously but holding regular meetings with Republican leadership.
I’m not sure nukes are enough.
I dunno guys. That Ed Marshall guy was making some pretty good points over there. We’re all a buncha gun-totin’, racist, plundering Theocons and we’re just gonna have to shut our stupid pie-holes and let Dems run things the way Nature intended. It’s our own damn fault we’re too dim and deaf from banging our Bibles to understand the brilliance of the current Dem Party.
I wouldn’t read him, if I were you. He’s a silver-tongued devil and with his claimed background in advertising this is obviously some slick way of winning people over to his viewpoint through vilification and repetition.
tw: year. Reading Ed Marshall’s comments is like spending a year with your head in a metal bucket while Lt. Worf is banging on it with a ladle.
Jeff seems to top himself every day. He’s got good stuff.
What is ‘threw up a little in my mouth’ from? Its driving me crazy.
MayBee: Hey, no need to suffer. This is the Age of Google.
Dodgeball
What is ‘threw up a little in my mouth’ from? Its driving me crazy.
Me too. It’s like one of those familiar faces that you can’t quite attach a name to.
Of course TallDave had to beat my post with the answer and make me feel even stupider than usual…
Thanks TallDave.
Thanks for doing my googling so I didn’t have to google myself.
I’ve never seen Dodgeball. I just, well, really did throw up a little bit in my mouth.
In a bizarro universe, I could maybe see the Dems nominating somebody that I’d be willing to vote for against a particular Republican.
But the Democrats haven’t been that sensible since before I was born.
You’ve not seen Dodgeball? “Welcome to ESPN8… the Ocho!”
This is pretty much what I’ve been thinking. There’s not much the Democrats can do to make me vote for them, but if the Republicans moved way right (banned abortion, made church attendence mandatory, required me to read Coulter, that sort of thing) I might consider voting for a moderate Democrat who fills the void.
I’d probably end up voting Libertarian, but I’d consider the Democrat.
The Democratic Party can’t even begin to think about getting my vote. Not unless they are ready to abandon all the “Stuck on Being Terminally Stupid” people who are the main spokespeople for the party. Howard Dean, John Kerry, Billary Clinton or is it HillBilly Clinton now, Chuck Schumer, Teddy Kennedy, Cindy Sheehan, Jesse Jackson, Charles Rangel. Do I need to mention more??? Oh yeah Russ Feingold, Jim Doyle, Michael McGee, and Tom Barrett on the state level. These supposed leaders and action takers are a huge source of the riotous and abusive discord and racism manifesting itself in this nation because of their negativity and lack of leadership and willingness to stand up for anything outside the entitlement of their own images and personal fame and power. It will be a cold day in hell, when I vote Democratic, as long as those unprincipled folks mentioned and their minions are still in “leadership” positions of the “Blame America First” Party. Geez, Louise, I just thought of another half dozen “BAF Democrats” while typing this that keep the party of choice, for me at least, the party of Lincoln.
For the record, I’ve never seen Dodgeball either, but (I’m guessing like most people) I remember the line from the preview. I think that’s where it entered common usage.
Here’s the comment I left:
“My advice?
Don’t worry about the moderates. Earnestly seeking the middle ground on every single issue is the sure-fire way to stand for absolutely nothing.
Find a few issues, defend them with rigorous intellectual arguments, and stand behind them with all your might. The moderates, and lots of other people will come.
Right now the Demcoratic Party is living on the heat of hate and that’s no way to ensure a lasting and vital party. At some point (and I’d say that point has already come), most folks are going to start looking at you like they look at the crank homeless guy who stands on a streetcorner wearing a sandwich board and yells at imaginary enemies.
Don’t be afraid to lose the crazy base, or the smaller bases who have only one interest and could care less about anything else. If your ideas work and if they’re strong, you’ll pick up a new base and it’ll be a stronger base than the one you had before.”
TW “off”. As in, “Cast off the spittle-flecked lunatics”
I dunno, Jimmie. That sounds like what they have been trying to do every time they talk about “framing the issue” and “convincing those ignorant masses of their righteousness”, it’s just that their “rigorous intellectual arguments” regarding the few issues they go wild over are not very compelling.
hmmm…find me a democrat with courage. Courage enough to come out strong against illegal immigration, ID in schools, and Kelo. A democrat that would have stood up against that idiotic Terri’s Law, and that would come out strong to
tar-and-featherfire the bioethics council, a democrat that would push funding for ESCR. They won’t say boo on any of those issues, where they could actually get some traction, because they’re terrified of alienating red state voters. All they do is try to attack Bush on issues where he is doing the right thing! Show me a democrat with enough sand to say Bush is doing a bitchin’ job on the war on terror, but he sux on all that other stuff. Gutless craven vote-whoring cowards, the whole lot of ‘em.I then posted this hoping for fireworks. I’m ashamed:
I agree with The Real Jeffs and James Ray: Ed Marshall is persuasive.
To get my vote the Dems would have to promise to put Ed Marshall in charge of the sodomy stats in our federal prison system. During his tenure he would stay at each institution until he’s taken it up the ass 10 times and then move on to the next.
No persuading now, Ed.
There is no Democrat party to vote for.
There is a legacy platoon of otherwise unemployable elected charicatures, each concentrating on sending as much pie to whatever local splinter constituency they have to appease on any given day.
That’s why the legacy platoon survives only in blue enclaves any more. This is fitting. Way back when the rest of the country decided that it was indeed “morning in America”, the coasts hit the snooze button.
We are so stinking rich that we can carry entire states on the books (important ones, too) that exist soley to reelect drones that are in their own way every bit as useless to democracy as the old Soviet Union ever was.
They are branded Democrats. Statespeople, they are emphatically not.
There are serious issues facing us – war(s), natural disasters, budget issues, entitlement reform, a possible flu pandemic, and right at the moment we are reshaping the face of the Supreme Court.
The Democrats can’t get my vote until they evince the slightest interest in CONTRIBUTING to reasoned debate – not maneuevering to make this news cycle’s soundbite log.
I feel about the Democrats about the same way as I do jihadis: I don’t hate them so much as I understand them, and understand what they want.
The jihadis want the end of western civilization. The legacy platoon could care less about the end of western civilization, just so long as they got the right office and equal time on the microphones.
Turing word: nothing, as in “what Democrats offer a constitutional republic made up of free people”.
The Dems could be pro-defense, pro-military; pledge and carry out daily reminders to the diplomatic corps that America comes first, the rest of the world second; and finally acknowledge that yes, William Jennings Bryan is dead, as are the social and economic policies that originated in 1880’s and that they will no longer be touting them as the cure for what ails us.
The democrats exist to prevent a real progressive agenda from being adopted by the American people, who have demonstrated REPEATEDLY that is exactly what they want—a progressive agenda that promotes the general welfare. Just like it says in the Constitution. . . you know, that quaint document that has been replaced by the Cheney administration with Mein Kampf.
Good American sheeple.
Baa baa baa
The democrats are the “light” alternative to the GOP but make no mistake, they have no interest in a progressive agenda, could not care LESS about the average American and will get MY vote when they start giving away fur coats in HELL.
Time for a third party.
You lost me at Mein Kampf.
For me it was ”a real progressive agenda”. Weasel words if I have ever read them that mean any damn thing the reader or speaker wants at any given second. Might as well put in a rorshach blot.