Thanks to all of you for your input with respect to my choosing a rifle. Lots of knowledge among the readers here. I’ve heard from military snipers and special forces guys; from hunters and defensive-minded gun enthusiasts; from men and women; from Christer haters and caring pro-gay marriage goodly goodness folks.
My main considerations were these: I wanted a rifle that, if I could only own one, would be the ideal rifle to handle most anything that comes up, from CQB to long-range elephant killing. In short, a bug-out weapon that would help me bug out successfully and with an attitude, then prove suitable once the zombies have taken over and I need to hole up in a farm house with a bunch of strangers and kill game so that we can eat a nice steak from time to time.
With that in mind, I narrowed my choices down to the M1A or the SCAR-H (17s is the civilian version) — and after much consideration, have decided on the SCAR 17S, particularly now that magazines are starting to show up with some regularity. A modular 308 with very manageable recoil at just under 8 lbs just seems like the perfect all-around SHTF weapon; and as one commenter somewhere put it, it’s a 90% solution 100% of the time. FN does a fantastic job with recoil control — as I learned with my 45 tac shooting +p rounds. And if I’m going to train on a single rifle, this is the one I think I should go with.
The biggest concern, naturally — and it’s more an obstacle than a concern — is the price. Finding one used isn’t easy in the .308 / 7.62×51; and new, the cheapest I’ve found with a layaway option is well north of $2K — around $2500, and that’s without a suitable scope, extra mags, etc. So it’s going to take me several months to purchase one, because this is going to have to be a “want” buy rather than a “need” buy, where my wife is concerned.
Still, I worry about all the talk of bans on “assault weapons” and “high capacity magazines”; I don’t trust politicians, and I particularly don’t trust the GOP leadership’s having any balls, when push comes to shove. So I’m hoping to put as much down on the weapon as I can now and then finish paying in a couple months before the society melts down and the zombies begin roaming the countryside, looking to raid my stockpile of Beefaroni and ramen.
Thank you all so much for all your input and your support. And if you can manage it, please throw a trifle into the tip jar. It won’t be spent on booze or designer jeans — just a shiny new rifle to protect the pw homestead when the needy entitled undead come a-knockin’. For the peace of mind.
Molon labe. Oh. And outlaw.
Don’t think you could do any better for an all purpose rifle. Hope you love it. And welcome to our world.
Jeff,
I saw your pingback to my KRISS article and meant to respond, but between throwing Peach Milkshakes at gay people while circling Chick-Fil-A and oppressing brown skinned people with my arsenal of guns, I’ve been low on time.
I, for one, approve of your choice. .308 is a damned fine round. You could find an AR10 that tosses ’em too if you’re looking for cheaper, but the SCAR is a fine platform nonetheless. And sexy too, so you can look *good* while oppressing brown skinned peoples.
My only admonition is that you hit the range as much as you can. A weapon is useless without the knowledge on how to use it. Think of leftists – they have a brain, but what good does it do them when they are unable to utilize it’s ‘thinking’ function?
And if you ever find yourself near the Tampa area, you are more than welcome to try the KRISS out. It’s a great weapon, accurate as hell, small enough for the homestead without worrying about over penetration (that’s something else to comprehend on your gun. That .308 has a tendency to keep going. Where is it going to stop?), and adequate for reminding the two legged varmints that somehow wander through the door that they’re in the wrong place.
And just FYI – While I may not comment here much any more, I read. Every day. Have been for years and not planning on stopping any time soon ;)
Hey, Rob. Heard about guys using frangible bullets in these things for CQB. It cycles them without a hitch. Will keep a mag or two filled with such and labeled. Is the plan.
If you’re looking to fight off the zombie hordes, by all means go for the weapon that puts the most rounds out.
If you’re buying a weapon for survival, go for the simplest to operate, maintain and acquire ammunition for. (or reload) .22lr, 5.62, 7.62, .308, | .410, 20ga, 12 ga
If you can afford it buy at least one of each.
Some FN pr0n for you.
Think of leftists – they have a brain, but what good does it do them when they are unable to utilize it’s ‘thinking’ function?
That was so fine it needed to be posted again.
Watch yourself, boss.
Yup. This runs Winchester 308 as well as the NATO rounds, jcw46.
I’ve been thinking about picking up an M1A and still might. But, after shooting an AR-10 for the first time today, I just wasn’t that impressed with a semi auto rifle. I much prefer my sub MOA bolt action .308.
You mean you weren’t impressed with the accuracy, Blake, or with the idea of a semi-auto MBR?
If the SCAR 17 is too expensive FN still makes their old FAL semi-autos (I think) and it is also known for being a low recoil semi-auto 7.62. And there are FAL Style knockoffs as well. They seem to run $1000-$2000+ depending on what you get. Some have hunting grips if you are worried about the future legality of tactical cosmetic features.
It’s a long, full sized, heavy-ish ‘battle rifle’ style gun though and not as sexy as a carbine style.
I think they do make FAL derivatives with more modern materials though. They aren’t all cold war wood and steel pieces.
SW, for whatever reason, the AR was just “meh” as far as I was concerned. The gun shot fine, (however, lousy trigger, but, I’ve got a 2lb after market trigger on my rifle. The difference between the AR trigger and my trigger was startling) for whatever reason, it just didn’t have any appeal for me.
Honestly, SW, I expected to like the rifle, because of the modular aspect of the AR platform. The guy had done a great job putting the rifle together, adjustable cheek rest, bull barrel, good scope, etc.
Yeah, I’m scratching my head over that.
FN don’t make FALs anymore, but DS Arms bought out the Austrian licensed machinery and make complete rifles in Illinois. Original Belgians are getting rare, still get Argentinians, Brazilians and Israelis knocking about, as well as Brit L1A1 inch varieties. I’ve seen 2 pictures of the Syrian rebels in the last week holding what must be Turkish ex-army FALs.
FAL style are these guys:
http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/bgprod/2-DSASTG58CP18.jpg
DSA makes a lot of FAL-derivative guns that they call the SA-58 series. Most are expensive if you buy them diectly from DSA but can be found at gun shows. They often design their guns around police friendly tactical features rather than hunting, defense, or match rifles.
http://www.dsarms.com/FAL-SA58%20Rifles/products/8/
You might also look into the H&K G3-style guns.
Most battle rifles have kind of stagey triggers, Blake. It’s like the brass don’t trust the grunts with delicate objects.
Battle rifles are supposed to be tougher rougher guns than assault rifles. They aren’t supposed to be touchy or fragile. They build them kind of robust in the hopes that they’ll break less.
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An excellent choice. Personally, I’ve always been a big fan of the 7.62 cartridge. It is significantly more powerful than the 5.56, both for hunting and possible anti-zombie uses, while being common enough that training ammunition isn’t absurdly expensive. I think the choice between SCAR and M1A was well made also. While the M1a is an excellent rifle, it is heavier, and that is something that can take a toll when hunting.
While we’re brain picking, does anyone have any scope recommendations? Something you just love, perhaps?
Dan_H, that’s true, but don’t forget the number that comes after the 7.62x. 7.62×39, 7.62×51, 7.62×54, etc. They are not the same cartridge and are not interchangeable.
Having used one to put 62 consecutive rounds into an 18″ circle at 1000 yards — iron sighted — one fine day at Camp Perry, I’m partial to the M14 and its civilian derivatives. HOWEVER, that was with an armory-accurized rifle. The run-of-the-mill M14s had some serious accuracy problems and it sometimes takes considerable magic to make some of them shoot, the gunsmith must overcome what is essentially a bad design vis the action’s bedding in the stock. Caveat emptor applies in spades, especially if you’re buying one at a gun show and no return is possible.
On the other hand, I heartily second the choice of the 7.62×51, it’s much more effective than a 5.56 and the recoil is easily manageable. Choosing a widely available military issue round is probably very wise should the SHTF. Still, if I were limited to a single gun I’d think hard about a good quality AR-15 because there are reliable and inexpensive .22 lr conversion units available and practice makes perfect. Not to mention that a .22 is probably the better weapon for foraging. Still, I’m just not a fan of the 5.56/.223 or the AR platform, there’s something off-putting about the loudest noise being the “shing!, shing!, shing!” of the recoil spring in the stock under your ear. A rifle should go “bang!” not “shing!”. But that’s just me….
I have no experience with the SCAR 17S, but FN does make fine weapons, I’d be surprised if this one is an exception. Also, pace the Scout Rifle contingent, in case of a serious defense situation I would want a semi-auto with extended magazine. Bolt actions can be very accurate, but they’re hell for slow to reload when the zombies are at the door.
While we’re brain picking, does anyone have any scope recommendations? Something you just love, perhaps?
I’ve got a cheapo Bushnell Legend that does the job out to about 150 yds. Compared to my friend’s Zeiss, well it’s easy to say you get what you pay for.
Are you going to fight a war or something? That is an unwieldy and difficult all around rifle. If you want a good, easy to swing and aim, load and maintain rifle you want a Mini-14. It’s available in .223, .30 cal in 39 length or even 6.8 if you look around. (very bad ass the 6.8) The parts are inexpensive and it is very, very accurate right out of the box.
If you want a rifle that is the epitome of battle ready it is an M-1 Garand in 30-06
Swing, balance and easy hand position is not what that rifle you desire are about.
I’m also very particular to my Russian SKS rifles. I stopped a gang of home invaders with an SKS, bayonet deployed. One of the Sheriff’s Deputies said “Nothing warms your heart like a bunch of bad guys at the the point of a bayonet.”
Have you used it, Beto Ochoa? The people I’ve spoken with who have — save one, who called it “chubby” — haven’t described it as unwieldy at all. The stock folds, eg., and the weight at under 8 lbs seems quite manageable.
To answer your question, though: I don’t know if I’m going to fight a war. But if I have to, I’d like to have this. And if I can only bug out with one rifle, I want one that can do damage up close, at intermediate range, and very far away.
If you want a rifle that is the epitome of battle ready it is an M-1 Garand in 30-06
It also weighs in at over 9 lbs, more like 9.5. The SCAR is emaciated in comparison. My dad tends to measure everything in how much it weighs relative to a Garand.
I have had to walk all day with a rifle and a lightweight is great because it’s easier to carry and it does the basic function of a rifle. That FN is a good, reliable choice for that job. I carried an AR platform in .308 with similar furniture because there was a bunch of gear to attach to it. Then it wasn’t nearly as light but its function was reliable. I had an SBR you cannot buy without an NFA tax stamp. There is a giant difference. That rifle is a mile long in comparison and I don’t think I ever saw anyone with a 16″ barrel. Two or four less inches of barrel is just as accurate and easier to shoulder and aim. Later, I was the security chief for a manufacturing facility and we used Mini-14s. Without a doubt the best civilian rifle for hunting and self defense. I had one in 6.8 and it was flawless in functioning even when dirty and I dispatched three Coyotes at 400m with it. Believe me, the Picatinny rail set up is for hanging gear from and handling with gloves. I hate those things for a comfortable to shoot rifle. And that’s the biggest part of shooting well. Having a rifle that you like to shoot instead of one designed for attaching gear to and carrying all day.
As for the M1 Garand, those older battle rifles may be heavy but they shoot like a stick of butter and are comfortable to wield. If you get in a scrape where you need penetration, nothing says get the hell out of the way like 30-06, if someone gets too close they are a lethal bludgeon and spear, even without the bayonet.
I protect my property and family with a Winchester Model 12 police issue pump 12ga, my M1 and my Tula SKS. As for pistols, for home defense the revolver is the best choice. They don’t jam and you can buy a used police issued S&W that rode in the holster all its life for around $350. The .38 Special in a revolver is very loud and changes people minds instantly. The rarity of needing more than six shots in a home situation is in the hundredths of a percent of encounters.
For a bugout rifle, I’d still take the M1.
Also, for bugout. You want common stuff like an AR. You’ll never find parts for an FN.
As much as it pains me, because I love ’em, I’ve got to disagree with the M1 Garand. The last of them were manufactured over 65 years ago and age and ear have taken their toll in many small ways on many springs and small parts. Also, the en bloc clips don’t allow a tactical reload — you’ve got to shoot it dry before you reload — and they eject automatically on the last shot. The rifle is useless without those clips, which can be hard to find in the dark — not to mention that in a serious encounter you don’t want to be searching for the clips. .30-06 ammo is easy to get but a fresh supply of en bloc clips, not so much. Nowadays if you must go that way the Beretta M59 would be the better choice, and it comes in 7.62×51 with detachable magazines.
Then there’s the 6.8mm. I’m sure it’s a fine caliber, but I’d bet you won’t find a significant supply of 6.8mm ammo at the local rod and gun shop in Podunk, USA. In a long-term SHTF situation you want ammo that’s readily available everywhere. 7.62/.308, 5.56/.223, .30-06, 12 ga., .45acp, .357mag/.38spl., .22 lr, etc. If they don’t sell the ammo at WalMart you probably don’t want the gun.
Found a couple at the Denver gun show but I just didn’t have the bread to pick it up now.
Here’s hoping no “assault weapons” bans or “high capacity magazine” bans happen over the next several months.
One nice thing about the AR-15 and AR-10 rifle types is that one can buy the “gun” as a stripped lower receiver, which lowers the initial cash outlay. That’s the part that could be banned. The rest of the parts (but not, of course, the magazines) would likely still be available. I know a guy who claimed he picked up a few right after Obama was elected. He also said he bought a bunch of hi-cap magazines even before he had assembled any rifles. So, if one knows for sure that they will be purchasing a certain rifle, there’s nothing that says one cannot get the magazines beforehand, while they are still available.
For the .308 caliber AR, it seems the DPMS style is the best choice because it’s compatible with Remington and Fulton Armory AR type rifles. That means one could exchange lowers and uppers across all the brands and they would fit.
I have my eye on a 100 round magazine for the M1A (in case I ever get another M1A to replace the one I sold, of course), just because they don’t want me to have it. The problem is it costs as much or more than a decent inexpensive rifle or shotgun.
Now that I notice you mentioning elephants and zombies I’m thinking maybe you had best not own a rifle.
[…] So, one of my long time reads on the Interweb Tubes (as well as my inspiration to the mindset of importance of intent), Jeff Goldstein, is picking up a home defense rifle […]
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