Search






Jeff's Amazon.com Wish List

Archive Calendar

November 2024
M T W T F S S
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930  

Archives

“The stunning chart that shows the Obama spending binge really happened”

I post this just in case Andrew Sullivan happens by and pretends to “await an answer,” or Jay Carney wishes to engage with actual numbers.

The rest of us don’t really need a whole lot of charts to tell us just how destructive this President has been to the private sector economy. Just as we don’t see in Obama “a pragmatic, sane and successful president” whose stewardship is responsible for the US economy’s having fared better than many of the Western democratic socialist economies.

Because we live the truth, we are increasingly unmoved by all the pretty lies. And this is the biggest problem Obama faces in 2012.

229 Replies to ““The stunning chart that shows the Obama spending binge really happened””

  1. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Rex Nutter’s chart foisting FY2009 on Bush originated with Nancy Pelosi. So I guess it’s true what they say about finger pointing. At least in this instance.

  2. JHoward says:

    Banksters you say? Unreformed financial reform? Unfettered crony capitalism? Ben ProBancke’s helicopter-printing press mashup?

    I wonder who constituted Obama’s one hundred golf foresomes since 2008.

    No I don’t.

  3. OCBill says:

    Evidently, not much of the money made it to Detroit (past its corrupt government anyway).

    Detroit, whose 139 square miles contain 60 percent fewer residents than in 1950, will try to nudge them into a smaller living space by eliminating almost half its streetlights.

    You have to identify those neighborhoods where you want to concentrate your population,” said Chris Brown, Detroit’s chief operating officer.

  4. TRHein says:

    So Sullivan is saying in Bush’s two terms he didn’t have a budget… way too much projection there.

  5. Pablo says:

    http://www.politicalmathblog.com/?p=1786

    But no, really, Nuttungs claim is Mostly True. So shut up.

  6. sdferr says:

    ‘ “You have to identify those neighborhoods where you want to concentrate your population,” said Chris Brown, Detroit’s chief operating officer.’

    Stalin was very good at this. His neighborhoods were called Gulags.

  7. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Detroit ought to reinvent itself as a location for filming post-apocalyptic horror and urban warfare movies.

    Either that, or the Army ought to turn it into a military reservation for urban combat training.

  8. palaeomerus says:

    Detroit is planning to do for real what Robocop III proposed. Except there’s no OCP, no robocop, and no giant neo-Detroit on the way to replace what is being torn down. A city is so $#@#ed that it needs to contract and downsize(via people leaving) and abandon annexed property.

  9. Dale Price says:

    What is happening to Detroit has no precedent, unless you go back to major European cities during the Black Plague.

    Even then, they didn’t lose 70% of their population–people started moving back in fairly quickly.

    L. Brooks Patterson, the executive for neighboring Oakland County, probably had the best analogy when he compared it to Constantinople. It’s a better analogy than he knows, given that Byzantine Constantinople was reduced to a collection of villages just before it fell to the Turks. That’s basically what Detroit is today: a collection of widely-separated viable neighborhoods that are islands in a sea of ruins.

    In a decade, the only people who are going to be left are the stubborn, the cock-eyed optimists and those who can’t get out. The black working class exodus has been on for a decade.

    And there’s no way the surrounding suburbs will be able to annex anything. Leaving aside the furor–apart from downtown and Midtown, the most liveable neighborhoods hug the suburban borders. The City would be nuts to let them go.

  10. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Rush was just saying that the recession “officially” ended in Mar. of ’09, and thus, since Nutting says Obama isn’t responsible for anything prior to Oct. ’09, Obama can’t take credit fo ending the recession, by Nutting’s own metric.

    I’d like to take that one step further. Not only is Obama not responsible for ending the recession, but he is solely responsible for the weakness of the current recovery, according to “Nutting rule.”

  11. bh says:

    That Political Math graphic that Pablo links up there is excellent.

  12. bh says:

    It seems like only yesterday large scale spending was what saved the economy and gave us “recovery summer”.

    I suppose outside of marveling at their shamelessness, the lesson here is that some of them have finally come to the realization that no one is buying that bullshit anymore.

  13. OCBill says:

    Using threats of violence, by refusing to provide street lights and police/fire service to “obsolete” neighborhoods, it’s not hard to imagine this being the way forward(tm) to eliminate suburban sprawl and concentrate the population in easily-managed urban utopias like Detroit. Just pass laws to prohibit the use of streetlights in areas with a population density below x and related laws to establish the maximum number of miles police cars can drive, etc. For the children!(tm)

  14. happyfeet says:

    The spending doesn’t count the ungodly interest we’ll have to pay on obama’s horrific rape of our treasury.

    Though default is more or less inevitable at this point I guess.

    Failshit thy name is America.

  15. Physics Geek says:

    I’m old enough to remember a time when Sullivan wasn’t bugfuck crazy. Maybe he thought that Charles Johnson and John Cole needed company in the Shits Own Pants ward.

  16. cranky-d says:

    They could put up a perimeter wall and make it a prison.

    “Escape from Detroit.”

  17. bh says:

    What I want to know is why the House Republicans haven’t already passed a bill taking them up on their suggestion that 2009 was a mistake the Dems had nothing to do with.

    Makes it a bit harder to immediately change gears to “draconian cuts” when they’re pushing this latest bit of nonsense.

    Not that they wouldn’t immediately change gears but perhaps 3 or 4 percent of the population might notice it.

  18. Ernst Schreiber says:

    On the other hand, the radical libertarians and the anarchists will finally have a place to go and practice spontaneous order. Especially if things evolve along OCBill’s lines.

  19. motionview says:

    Another chart of interest.

  20. motionview says:

    Apparently you can add Michael Fumento to that list physicsgeek.

    Back then a tall bearded Republican declared, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” Just another one of those idiot, moron, “duplicitous bastard” RINOs.

    Lincoln accepted the possibility of civil war for an ideal. Our RINOs would have been working out a way to slightly reduce the growth of new slave states while borrowing the , ah, work units one month in 12, when it was their turn.

  21. cranky-d says:

    Abraham Lincoln modeled himself after the statesman he knew Obama would be.

    Yes, Lincoln knew about The Coming of Obama. Obama is just that awesome.

  22. bh says:

    Heh.

  23. Slartibartfast says:

    That politicalmathblog link is pretty tasty. It’d be nice if they’d have some liberals arguing counter to it using some kind of consistency, though.

  24. palaeomerus says:

    ” Back then a tall bearded Republican declared, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” Just another one of those idiot, moron, “duplicitous bastard” RINOs. ”

    Yeah. That was after he supported tossing Millard Filmore (who was an incumbent) in favor of Winfield Scott. This utterly destroyed a divided Whig party which lead to the creation of he new Republican party. Which lead to a civil war.

    Lincoln is a REALLY BAD spokesman to pick on this topic. A HORRIBLE one. Lincoln was NOT a pro-establishment guy who played ball and worked together. He supported for the radical anti-slavery guy who had a great reputation as a war hero. It did not work out. Pierce (the democrat) won. But Lincoln was about head butting the system just to see what happened not big tents and aisle crossing. The current GOP is in no way Lincoln-esque beyond their efforts to expand federal executive power at the expense of federal legislative and sate power. Even there they are gradualists where Lincoln was rather jacobinite, pragmatic (not in a realpolitik sense but in a ‘let’s kick over the constitution if that that’s what it takes to hold the union together’ sense) and prone to justify his measures by being “on the right side of history” at a crucial time that might see the nation destroyed if he did not act, with haste and force, giving no mind towards restraint in the name of consequences or expenses. Lincoln was both a great hero and a monster. Perhaps he was the convenient sort of monster who shows up and drives Megalon and Gigan out of downtown Tokyo with the help of the robot Jet Jaguar but he is still very much a monster and dangerous to the USA. He started the crack that FDR , Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter widenedd so that Clintons, Bushes and Obama’s could walk through and take their place on the American throne that we all said we’d ever build or tolerate.

  25. JHoward says:

    The spending doesn’t count the ungodly interest we’ll have to pay on obama’s horrific rape of our treasury.

    To whom is a topic rarely broached.

  26. Curmudgeon says:

    I’m old enough to remember a time when Sullivan wasn’t bugfuck crazy. Maybe he thought that Charles Johnson and John Cole needed company in the Shits Own Pants ward.

    I think it is the AIDS dementia kicking in. If it isn’t, well, the Rule Of The Anus trumps everything in Sullivan’s world. Neither the economy, nor the march of savage Islam, nor anything else matters to Andy Sullivan as long as he can marry his butt-buddy.

  27. Dale Price says:

    He started the crack that FDR , Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter widenedd so that Clintons, Bushes and Obama’s could walk through and take their place on the American throne that we all said we’d ever build or tolerate.

    No, not really. Lincoln did take some extra-constitutional actions, but his actions weren’t the precedent for the monster we had today. His actions were easily bracketed by the fact the nation was shredding itself in a civil war. Moreover, his roadmap for Reconstruction offered a much lighter footprint than was actually imposed. Though I suspect he would have to have embraced more stringent measures eventually.

    Even so, FDR, Johnson and the rest did not look to Lincoln as precedent for the Leviathan State, because he offered no such precedent. The federal government, up to the Great Depression, was a remarkably small and unobtrusive part of people’s lives. It was the shock of the Depression that created the crack Roosevelt stuck the dynamite in.

  28. RI Red says:

    And why do you suppose the Fed is keeping interest rates artificially, super-dooper low?
    Because if/when they go up, Uncle Sugar, sorry, the taxpayers, are well and truly screwed.

  29. leigh says:

    I think we can blame Woodrow Wilson, Princeton professor for a number of ills, Dale. Income taxes for one and segregation for two.

  30. Curmudgeon says:

    And why do you suppose the Fed is keeping interest rates artificially, super-dooper low?
    Because if/when they go up, Uncle Sugar, sorry, the taxpayers, are well and truly screwed.

    Inflation / Stagflation is a great hidden tax, too. Compared to the Obamunist, Jimmuh Carturd was a regular flag-waving and pro-business patriot.

  31. leigh says:

    I’ve been looking over my shoulder for the last two years for inflation/stagflation to come galloping on a dark horse just like it did in the 70s.

    *sigh* I really don’t want to relive the Bad Old Days of 19% home loans, gas lines, etc. Once ought to be enough.

  32. Dale Price says:

    leigh:

    Oh, definitely–Wilson was not a good President, and the income tax certainly feeds the beast today. And he was an atrocious, to-the-bone racist.

    But the Federal government still was a tiny creature after his Presidency. I’d say Hoover did a lot more than Wilson did to change that.

  33. Curmudgeon says:

    I was just al ittle kid then, but it left an impression. There was also a sense of doom in the air, that the Soviets were unbeatable, that we would end up standing in lines for rations of everything, and that there was an unstoppable crime wave. It just looked like the future would suck ass.

    Fast forward to 2012, and it’s back. In some ways it is better; no one is seriously proposing wage and price controls. However, in some ways it is worse. Jimmuh Carturd was a least a Naval Academy graduate, and was Old Leftist (New Deal / Great Society pro-American) rather than New Leftist anti-American like the Obamunist is.

  34. palaeomerus says:

    Fresh Food like meat is up by about 80% from 2008 here. Gas is up a little higher than it was in the summer of 2005. Tuition and utility costs keep climbing. Medical costs are going up and soon so is my health insurance! Taxes are about to go up if nothing is done. The dollar has lost value. It’s not systemic inflation exactly(well, the money printing is) but it works about the same way from my end. I get materially poorer.

  35. palaeomerus says:

    “Even so, FDR, Johnson and the rest did not look to Lincoln as precedent for the Leviathan State, because he offered no such precedent.”

    Except for the fact that he did.

  36. cranky-d says:

    We may not officially have inflation, but stuff sure costs a lot more than it used to.

  37. palaeomerus says:

    the Homestead Act
    the Pacific Railway Acts
    the Revenue Act of 1861
    the Revenue Act of 1862
    the National Banking Act
    the Department of Agriculture

    He did most of this with the Congress cleared out of opposition owing to the attempted succession. The southern states were slowly readmitted to what he had created in their absence.

    This WAS clearly the model that lead to the big Federal Small state system.

  38. Dale Price says:

    Except for the fact that he did.

    How? The suspension of habeas corpus did not bring us the Social Security Act. Calling up 75,000 volunteers after Fort Sumter did not give us the Great Society. The Emancipation Proclamation did not give us Obamacare.

    The “Lincoln as First Emperor” argument has always strode the landscape skyclad. It is unsupported by anything other than “he did certain extraconstitutional things, so it must be true.” John Adams did worse with the Alien and Sedition Acts, but no one goes back that far. It is a deeply-believed sentiment lacking in evidentiary support.

  39. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Lincoln in context:
    “If we could first know where we are, and whither we are tending, we could better judge what to do, and how to do it. We are now far into the fifth year since a policy was initiated with the avowed object and confident promise of putting an end to slavery agitation. Under the operation of that policy, that agitation has not only not ceased, but has constantly augmented. In my opinion, it will not cease until a crisis shall have been reached and passed. “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved; I do not expect the house to fall; but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other. Either the opponents of slavery will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction, or its advocates will push it forward till it shall become alike lawful in all the States, old as well as new, North as well as South.”

    What’s that Glenn Reynolds says? “Another rube self-identifies,” isn’t it?

  40. Curmudgeon says:

    “the Homestead Act”

    This WAS clearly the model that lead to the big Federal Small state system.”

    No, you can’t blame Abe for settling what was still a frontier nation. The federal government owning most of the Western states and territories? That came with Teddy Roosevelt, whose role in “progressive” rot and ruin seems never to be fully pointed out.

  41. leigh says:

    Jimmy Carter is/was an anti-Semitic sob who proclaimed that, if re-elected, he was going to “fuck the Jews”. He’s a bitter old man who (and this is no lie) actually hangs out in the mock Oval Office in his Presidential Library on occaison. He broke the unwritten rules of former presidents, too, by making cracks about sitting presidents and by consorting with commies.

    I originally gave him points for his Habitat for Humanity gig, until it was revealed that the homes are slapped together pieces of crap that are not livable five to seven years down the road.

  42. Ernst Schreiber says:

    He did most of this with the Congress cleared out of opposition owing to the attempted succession. The southern states were slowly readmitted to what he had created in their absence.

    The southern states cleared themselves out. By your line of reasoning, you’re asking me to take seriously the complaints of Wisconsin Democrats hiding in Rockford while Scott Johnson and the Republicans get on with doing the job they were elected to do.

    Also, it’s imprudent to read present day concerns into the past. Our present governmental-bureaucratic regulatory apparatus is unsustainable. The United States of the middle nineteenth century was a very different place.

    You might as well start arguing, like Pat Buchanan, that we need to bring back import tarriffs, because it used to work for us.

  43. Curmudgeon says:

    Don’t get me wrong, leigh, I hardly think well of Jimmuh Carturd. But his New Left shit (like Sandinista and Palestinigoon fellating) came after he left the White House.

    The Obamunist? He was reared on that. We elected, for the first time, a true America hater.

  44. Dale Price says:

    The Homestead Act did not not not feed the federal monster. The federal government divesting itself of lands to smallholders is the opposite of growing the beast. As opposed to the Federal government of today, owning bazillions of acres of undevelopable land and buying more all the time.

    At the end of the day, private enterprise owned the railway under the Pacific RA. Again, it granted federal lands to private companies, which is another non-leviathany thing to do.

    The Revenue Act was a temporary war measure which expired of its own accord.

    The National Banking Act stimulated the creation of twice as many state banks as national ones. Again, it did not radically alter the relationship in the same way as the Federal Reserve Act.

    The Department of Agriculture was less relevant than the post office for the next seventy years. If you want to blame Lincoln for what it turned into, then you should blame Washington and Jefferson for what the Department of War looks like now.

    If Roosevelt, et al had found these Lincoln-era acts as precedent, they wouldn’t have had to talk out of their asses so often to try to justify their actions–or to just flat out use threats to get things through.

  45. palaeomerus says:

    ““the Homestead Act”
    This WAS clearly the model that lead to the big Federal Small state system.”
    No, you can’t blame Abe for settling what was still a frontier nation. The federal government owning most of the Western states and territories? That came with Teddy Roosevelt, whose role in “progressive” rot and ruin seems never to be fully pointed out.”

    Selling it for cheap? Sure I can.

  46. leigh says:

    I knew what you meant, curmudgeon. No need to explain. I was just venting.

  47. Ernst Schreiber says:

    How Lincoln Saved the World.

    I happen to think Beran (or Knox Beran, not sure which) is correct.

  48. Curmudgeon says:

    You might as well start arguing, like Pat Buchanan, that we need to bring back import tarriffs, because it used to work for us.

    Did you know that the argument used to be between low “revenue maximizing” and high “protective” tariffs? They actually understood Laffer’s Curve a hundred years before Laffer.

    That said, some of these arguments over Abe Lincoln remind me of arguments over “Free Silver”. So much has happened to the Government Monster since then that re-hashing Abe is irrelevant. Are some of you neo-Confederates going to really hash out the constitutionality of ratifying the 14th Amendment?

  49. Ernst Schreiber says:

    I originally gave him points for his Habitat for Humanity gig, until it was revealed that the homes are slapped together pieces of crap that are not livable five to seven years down the road.

    That. And the owners only “own” them until they try to sell them. “Sweat equity” has no cash value, it seems.

  50. palaeomerus says:

    “If Roosevelt, et al had found these Lincoln-era acts as precedent,”

    They PRECEDED FDR’s actions. They MODEL aspects of FDR”s monster government.

  51. palaeomerus says:

    “. Are some of you neo-Confederates going to really hash out the constitutionality of ratifying the 14th Amendment?”

    Neo confederate’? That’s your argument? That’s where you want to take this? How stupid.

  52. Ernst Schreiber says:

    neo-Confederates? Was that really necessary?

  53. bh says:

    We’ve talked about this before but when we think of inflation we have to think of more than the grocery store. Clothing, electronics, and housing are all currently deflating.

    So is gold. Down almost 20% over the last 9 months.

    This should encourage us to look further than single variable explanations.

  54. palaeomerus says:

    “The suspension of habeas corpus did not bring us the Social Security Act. Calling up 75,000 volunteers after Fort Sumter did not give us the Great Society. The Emancipation Proclamation did not give us Obamacare.”

    You seem to think that even begins to make a point of some kind. Lincoln is where the executive and the national government began to grow into what it is today. That is the crack that was widened. That was the initial unchecked expansion beyond what was intended. He was the super president who started the mutation that would ALLOW the likes of Social Security, Obamacare, and the war on Poverty .

  55. palaeomerus says:

    “Ernst Schreiber says May 24, 2012 at 3:51 pm
    neo-Confederates? Was that really necessary?”

    Yeah. I guess I can call Curmudgeon an absolute monarchist with similarly asinine reasoning.

  56. Ernst Schreiber says:

    FDR’s New Deal was Wilson’s War Socialism on steroids and human growth hormone, and maybe some alien dna thrown in for good measure. Wilson, like Theodore Roosevelt, and unlike Lincoln, was an admirer of both Bismark and Darwin.

  57. palaeomerus says:

    “This should encourage us to look further than single variable explanations.”

    I’m not too interested in explaining anything. I’m just saying I’m getting materially poorer just like I did in the late 70’s early 80’s. If it’s inflation or not, I’m still getting poorer with the same mount of money in the bank. If I bought houses and gold it might be good times. For ribeye consumption it kinds of sucks to be me. And for car trips. My paycheck buys substantially less of what I want.

  58. palaeomerus says:

    Socialism is great because after it blows up in everyone’s face it doesn’t count because was never properly tired.

  59. palaeomerus says:

    tired-> tried

  60. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Lincoln is where the executive and the national government began to grow into what it is today. That is the crack that was widened. That was the initial unchecked expansion beyond what was intended. He was the super president who started the mutation that would ALLOW the likes of Social Security, Obamacare, and the war on Poverty .

    post hoc ergo propter hoc?

  61. bh says:

    Costly ribeyes here.

    There are things we can do about that but only if we focus on the true causes and not inflation as a nebulous macro effect.

  62. Curmudgeon says:

    “Selling it for cheap? Sure I can.”

    Because demanding top dollar for lands would have been *so* smart, especially in an age of European Colonialism and potential Mexican revanchism.

    The best way to assure a hold on something is to actually go out and settle it…..

  63. palaeomerus says:

    “There are things we can do about that but only if we focus on the true causes and not inflation as a nebulous macro effect.”

    I didn’t BLAME inflation. I said it’s pretty much doing the same thing to me as inflation did.

  64. palaeomerus says:

    “Because demanding top dollar for lands would have been *so* smart, especially in an age of European Colonialism and potential Mexican revanchism.
    The best way to assure a hold on something is to actually go out and settle it…..”

    neo-confedrates

  65. palaeomerus says:

    ‘ post hoc ergo propter hoc?”

    The first institutionalized super presidency had no influence on subsequent expansions of stemming from super presidency? People just forgot? Insulated by a historical vacuole?

  66. Curmudgeon says:

    neo-Confederates? Was that really necessary?”

    Yeah. I guess I can call Curmudgeon an absolute monarchist with similarly asinine reasoning.

    Oh puhleeze. The point stands. So much has happened to the Government Monster since then, that re-hashing Abe is irrelevant.

    And arguing over Lincoln does remind me of “The South Was Right” book arguments. (That was a good book, actually).

    But after “progressivism” (sic), after the New Deal, after the Great Society?

    I think there are bigger fish to fry today…..

  67. bh says:

    Perhaps I’m simply making a point of my own, palaeo, that doesn’t need to be contra to anything you might be saying.

  68. palaeomerus says:

    “Oh puhleeze. The point stands. So much has happened to the Government Monster since then, that re-hashing Abe is irrelevant.”

    No, neo-confederates is just stupid hyperbolic shit. And who gave you the irrelevant brush? What was innocent about Lincoln’s actions and how was it really any different an expansion of executive power than what came after except being somewhat lower in magnitude?

  69. palaeomerus says:

    “And arguing over Lincoln does remind me of “The South Was Right” book arguments. (That was a good book, actually).”

    In my opinion, the South (most of it anyway) was a second Mexico in the making only with shittier music. It was a hereditary landlord peasant system.

  70. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Institutionalized how exactly?

  71. Curmudgeon says:

    “Because demanding top dollar for lands would have been *so* smart, especially in an age of European Colonialism and potential Mexican revanchism.
    The best way to assure a hold on something is to actually go out and settle it…..”

    neo-confedrates

    Whatever.

  72. Curmudgeon says:

    In my opinion, the South (most of it anyway) was a second Mexico in the making only with shittier music. It was a hereditary landlord peasant system.

    OK, so Lincoln had to take measures to preserve the Union and crush the Slave Power Aristocracy.

    And who gave you the irrelevant brush? What was innocent about Lincoln’s actions and how was it really any different an expansion of executive power than what came after except being somewhat lower in magnitude?

    See above. How would you have restored the Union and crushed the Slave Power?

  73. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Shouldn’t have asked that because I have to duck out until much later probably.

    You can’t draw a straight line from Lincoln to Obama. You also have to account for Cleveland, Coolidge and Reagan.

    Maybe we should just agree to trade Lincoln, TR and Hoover for Jackson and Cleveland, and share Kennedy on alternating weekends.

  74. newrouter says:

    cherokee nation update: pow wow chow reviews

    I’ve received nothing but rave reviews from my colleagues after whipping up treats from this cookbook in the faculty lounge kitchen. Admirers of Pow Wow Chow may also enjoy Bow Wow Chow, a Indonesian-influenced cookbook from a former professor now in politics.

    link

  75. JHoward says:

    Your government has abandoned you. Long live your government:

    U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission investigators have concluded their probe of possible financial fraud at Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and determined that they will probably not recommend any enforcement action against the firm or its former executives, according to an excerpt of an internal agency memo.

    The agency has been grappling with the case for more than three years amid questions from lawmakers and investors as to whether Lehman misrepresented its financial health before filing the biggest bankruptcy in U.S. history in September 2008.

    Under a heading reading “Activity in Last Four Weeks,” the undated document reads, “The staff has concluded its investigation and determined that charges will likely not be recommended.”

    Grappled. They grappled.

  76. palaeomerus says:

    “See above. How would you have restored the Union and crushed the Slave Power?”

    What does that have to do with anything? Good intentions mean WHAT when they cause the devolution of principles?

  77. palaeomerus says:

    “OK, so Lincoln had to take measures to preserve the Union and crush the Slave Power Aristocracy.”

    Did he?

  78. JHoward says:

    the world we live in is being led by a bunch of crooked banksters and the Central Planners that do their bidding. At the top of the Central Planning global ponzi pyramid, is our very own Federal Reserve, headed by master Keynesian magician, the Wizard of Eccles, Ben Bernanke. For the vast majority of 2012, the Federal Reserve has been playing a very, very dangerous game.

    […] the global ponzi is completely and totally incapable of holding itself together without consistent and increasingly large infusions of Central Bank money.

    They grappled.

  79. palaeomerus says:

    “OK, so Lincoln had to take measures to preserve the Union and crush the Slave Power Aristocracy.”

    Doesn’t Obama need to reform America into just and equitable place and move us forward and create a centrally planned economy for us while altering the whole concept of ownership? He had a goal related to his concept of the public good and some people agreed with it. That’s a reason to give a blank check to a man on horse. That’s a reason to water a living constitution?

  80. palaeomerus says:

    ” Institutionalized how exactly?”

    In law. In precedent. In an ever expanding executive and federal government.

  81. newrouter says:

    large infusions of Central Bank money

    jay gould and stock comes to mind

  82. palaeomerus says:

    ” Whatever.”

    Yeah, ‘neo-confederates caller’ totally gets to demand explanations.

  83. palaeomerus says:

    “We believe, in the words of our first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, that through government, we should do together what we cannot do as well for ourselves. –”

    President Barack Obama, speaking on April 13, 2011

    But there’s no precedent. No lineage there. Look away. Lincoln GOOD.

  84. leigh says:

    nr, I read a new (to me) word to describe the faux Indians the other day: Pretendians.

  85. cranky-d says:

    OT: I see a lot of bitching in the news about the Facebook IPO, and congressional investigations will be coming. What happened that’s illegal?

  86. leigh says:

    Nothing. People are whining because they expected a whopping return and didn’t get one.

  87. leigh says:

    Jeff Bezos of Amazon fame, didn’t turn a profit for years. Look at him now.

  88. palaeomerus says:

    I think the complaint is that reports of lowered profitability forecasts were sat on by Morgan Stanley just before Facebook IPO.

    Some investors (big ones)were informed of this lowered profit forecast just before the IP and most others (small investors)only found out about the reports a day or so after the IPO.

  89. palaeomerus says:

    It leads to a presumption that the stock market is much friendlier with big clients and dismissive or even deceptive through omission towards smaller clients.

  90. OCBill says:

    I like turtles.

  91. bh says:

    If the underwriting analysts changed their earnings estimates based on public information rather than inside information there isn’t a legal issue here.

    Facebook went public on May 18th. Check the date on this news story, May 9th. That’s irrefutable proof of public disclosure.

    Do you get better service when you’re a huge client? Of course. That’s the case everywhere, not just finance. If you buy in bulk at Costco they’ll actually charge you less than other people. If you buy a huge TV at Crazy Eddie’s they’ll kick in delivery for free.

  92. OCBill says:

    Fed says only way to avoid inflation is to keep unemployment as high as it is now

    The term they use is “Full Employment”, but they define it as the maximum employment rate that avoids inflation. Congratulations, President Obama, our economy has achieved stagflation equilibrium.

  93. cranky-d says:

    I figured it was much ado about nothing. Thanks, bh.

  94. Ernst Schreiber says:

    “We believe, in the words of our first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, that through government, we should do together what we cannot do as well for ourselves. –”
    President Barack Obama, speaking on April 13, 2011
    But there’s no precedent. No lineage there. Look away. Lincoln GOOD.

    Lincoln never said what Barak Obama said he said.

    The error I believe you’re making is accepting the progressive teleology of history at face value and reversing it. If it contributed to growth of national power and activist government it must be good. All the progressive historians say so. Ergo, if they think Lincoln is a hero, he must be a villain according to the contrary reading of their history which you’ve adopted. You’re not considering Lincoln as an historical actor faced with a series of choices and no certain outcome. Nor are you considering his presidency within the context of the time. And that’s a misuse of historical reasoning.

    Lincoln BETTER becaue the alternatives WORSE.

  95. cranky-d says:

    I got a raise a week ago. Here comes some massive inflation.

  96. Dale Price says:

    You seem to think that even begins to make a point of some kind. Lincoln is where the executive and the national government began to grow into what it is today. That is the crack that was widened. That was the initial unchecked expansion beyond what was intended. He was the super president who started the mutation that would ALLOW the likes of Social Security, Obamacare, and the war on Poverty .

    And you seem to think that repeating “Lincoln is to blame!” proves your argument. Ipse dixit doesn’t cut it.

    A better argument, grounded in fact, for the unfettering of the federal executive, would be Jackson’s presidency–and expansion of executive powers, deployed in such freedom-advancing activities as the ethnic cleansing of Georgia. But, no, it’s Abe’s fault, for some inchoate reason. We feel it to be so.

    Lincoln is the convenient but misplaced whipping boy for those who want to pare back federalism. Sadly, all you’re doing–inadvertently–is legitimizing the progressive project. Instead of emphasizing how alien the statism of the Great Depression and succeeding generations was (imported directly from Europe, not based upon the principles of the Republic), you are granting cover for proggs who will argue that what they are doing is purely organic, a natural development for America.

    “Why, Lincoln got the ball rolling! Thanks for the argument!”

    –Barack Obama.

    Leaving aside the fact that your examples don’t hold a thimble-full of water, as I demonstrated before. So, in addition to lacking factual grounding, they make a great propaganda point for progressivism. Shooting yourself in each foot, and well-aimed.

    In fact, it’s really odd that the New Dealers never waived the banner of Lincoln in their arguments for ramming their program through at the time. An odd omission given that Lincoln was revered outside of the South by the 1930s.

    So, no, I’m not conceding the preserver–however flawed he may have been–of the Founders’ legacy to the progressives.

  97. bh says:

    No problem, cranky. Congrats on the raise, btw.

  98. McGehee says:

    It sure is nice to get home from vacation to find PW is still every bit the echo chamber it ever was.

  99. motionview says:

    Zerohedge may have found the next UN High Commissar for Climate Change.

  100. Dale Price says:

    “We believe, in the words of our first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, that through government, we should do together what we cannot do as well for ourselves. –”

    President Barack Obama, speaking on April 13, 2011

    But there’s no precedent. No lineage there. Look away. Lincoln GOOD.

    Yeah. That’s the beginning of Obamacare right there.

    It all started with the Feds divesting themselves of its acreage to free men and women. How did I not see it before?

    Your problem is that you’ve turned Lincoln into a devil figure. For which the progressives, again, thank you heartily. That will win them many, many hearts and minds.

  101. Dale Price says:

    “pare back federal power”, not “federalism.”

    “waved,” not “waived.”

    The perils of posting with your four year old waving (not waiving) his new toothbrush in your face.

  102. dicentra says:

    with the help of the robot Jet Jaguar

    Niftiest cravat in giant monsterdom.

  103. palaeomerus says:

    “Yeah. That’s the beginning of Obamacare right there.
    It all started with the Feds divesting themselves of its acreage to free men and women. How did I not see it before?”

    Subsidized land market.

  104. palaeomerus says:

    “Leaving aside the fact that your examples don’t hold a thimble-full of water, as I demonstrated before”

    All you “demonstrated” was that link A did not lead directly to link L And you did that rather badly.

  105. palaeomerus says:

    “Your problem is that you’ve turned Lincoln into a devil figure. For which the progressives, again, thank you heartily. That will win them many, many hearts and minds.”

    Bullshit to both.

  106. newrouter says:

    PW is still every bit the echo chamber it ever was.

    you haven’t noticed the new and improved “pw noise cancellation technology™”

  107. cranky-d says:

    Yup, everyone is totally in lockstep agreement around here.

  108. palaeomerus says:

    “Lincoln never said what Barak Obama said he said.
    The error I believe you’re making is accepting the progressive teleology of history at face value and reversing it”

    No. I’m saying that he was inspired by Lincoln’s actions to pursue similar federal executive power expanding activities to meet his own goals. Just as FDR and Johnson were inspired.

  109. palaeomerus says:

    “A better argument, grounded in fact, for the unfettering of the federal executive, would be Jackson’s presidency–and expansion of executive powers, deployed in such freedom-advancing activities as the ethnic cleansing of Georgia. But, no, it’s Abe’s fault, for some inchoate reason. We feel it to be so.”

    Jackon ignored judicial review. That Obama HAS imitated. Now does that somehow exonerate Lincoln of what he did ? Did what Lincoln did NOT expand federal execultive power in ways that were useful to progressives? Is saying so when progressives are trying to coopt him as a fellow traveler really destroying him to the delight of progressives? Why even waste time with this cheap Goldbergesque ” you feel it to be so ” tripe? When I mention what bothered me about Lincoln you merely came up with supposed public goods that resulted which proved necessity. You think that is a satisfactory defense of the power expansion? That prevents it from leading to further expansions? It supposedly turned out alright if you pretend it didn’t lead to worse ? it just didn’t? Jackson did but not Lincoln? It skipped a guys? You “feel that to be so” ? And I’m the one juggling an embryonic quasimodo reason? Because A leads to B leads to C leads to D instead of A leading to D alone? In fact it all starts with -A and skips A?

  110. leigh says:

    Obama can’t be bothered with an historical precedent, real or imagined. Likewise, he is not well-read and not particularly bright. To the extent that he is actually aware of any doings or legislation by former presidents, it is the executive and likely inaccurate version fed to him by his surrogates and tailored to meet the needs of a speech or platitude wherein he is to stay on script.

    You’re giving him much too much credit for being an E-vil genius. You’re also dragging Lincoln through the fever swamps of your imaginings, in my opinion.

  111. palaeomerus says:

    ” You’re not considering Lincoln as an historical actor faced with a series of choices and no certain outcome. Nor are you considering his presidency within the context of the time. And that’s a misuse of historical reasoning.”

    No. I mentioned he might be a useful monster and all that way back. I’m sure that in mythological context Pandora was an awfully nice person too. I can understand why she opened the box. I feel curiosity. But she opened it.

  112. newrouter says:

    severely conservative

    Sources close to Senator Rand Paul tell National Review Online that Paul and Mitt Romney had a private meeting on Wednesday. Details of the topics discussed are hazy, but Paul — the son of Texas congressman (and presidential candidate) Ron Paul — reportedly found the meeting productive.

    The one-on-one conversation in the nation’s capital lasted 30 minutes. Sources say the tone was cordial but it wasn’t meant to be an exchange of pleasantries. The Kentucky Republican focused his questions on policy.

    link

  113. palaeomerus says:

    “You’re giving him much too much credit for being an E-vil genius. You’re also dragging Lincoln through the fever swamps of your imaginings, in my opinion.”

    Obama said he thought he was following in Lincoln’s footsteps of using government to do what we can’t do alone. He said it. He formed that connection in his own mind. Cynically or not he did. And “fever swamps of my imaginings” is just silly. He really did that stuff. He used a war to get most of it done. Is he super evil? No. But that’s just the hyperbole being thrown around to keep his statue shiny. It’s like neo-confederate.

    Obama probably isn’t super evil either. He can easily be described in the context of this era and his upbringing too. So can FDR and Johnson, and George W Bush. So what? What does that accomplish? What does that change? The crack is still there. it still gets widened by those following the same course. Lincoln is part of the problem we have today. He was a major pioneer in the field. He demonstrated the efficacy of the approach. Progressives adopted much of that approach.

  114. Dale Price says:

    When I mention what bothered me about Lincoln you merely came up with supposed public goods that resulted which proved necessity. You think that is a satisfactory defense of the power expansion?

    No, that’s not remotely what I said. What I said was that the alleged “power expansion” was no such thing. And you haven’t provided evidence to the contrary, apart from citing acts which did not change the power equation, or in fact (the Homestead Act) actually reduced federal power.

    Instead, you’ve brandished Obama’s misuse of Lincoln. Gleefully, for some reason.

  115. motionview says:

    ABC “News”

    As President Obama addressed the graduates, no rainbow flags could be seen on display. The LGBT students couldn’t be picked out of the crowd of white and blue.

    “Reporter”: Why can’t I pick the gay LGBT students out of this sea of uniformed officers? Where are the rainbow flags in gratitude for Obama’s benificence?

    You were looking in the wrong direction – turn toward the press gallery.

  116. Dale Price says:

    He was a major pioneer in the field. He demonstrated the efficacy of the approach. Progressives adopted much of that approach.

    Again, no proof on any of the three statements.

    Apart from quoting Buh-rock, who also has said nice things about Reagan. In fact, he’s a big fan of dead Republicans, now that I think about it. Why are you so eager to let the progressives co-opt him?

  117. palaeomerus says:

    “Sources close to Senator Rand Paul tell National Review Online that Paul and Mitt Romney had a private meeting on Wednesday. Details of the topics discussed are hazy, but Paul — the son of Texas congressman (and presidential candidate) Ron Paul — reportedly found the meeting productive.”

    So Romney and Ron/RandPaul attempt to make peace leaving the Tea Party groups and the ‘back to Reagan’ groups out in the cold? Or does Romney think the Pauls are the main focus of the party’s general reluctance towards him?

  118. newrouter says:

    LGBT students out of this sea of uniformed officers? Where are the rainbow flags in gratitude for Obama’s benificence?

    you have to have the “right type” of conformity?

  119. palaeomerus says:

    ” Again, no proof on any of the three statements.”

    If you say so. Apart from the apart froms…etc.

    ” Why are you so eager to let the progressives co-opt him?”

    I’m not eager for it at all. I’m just pointing out that it is happening. How do you propose to stop them? Pretending that it expansion of the federal executive starts with Jackson but somehow skipped Lincoln and his expansions of federal executive power were not noticed, and special, and necessary, and proper, and thankfully lead nowhere even though the expansion continued ? Asking for a direct A to L link instead of looking at the A to B link and the B to C link and drawing the obvious conclusion?

  120. bh says:

    OT: I’m currently wondering if The Cars might not be better than REO Speedwagon.

  121. leigh says:

    Instead, you’ve brandished Obama’s misuse of Lincoln. Gleefully, for some reason.

    This. I don’t understand your term “neo-confederate”, pala. What does that mean?

  122. leigh says:

    The Cars are indeed better than REO Speedwagon.

  123. palaeomerus says:

    “Mocking the thrill is getting to Matthews.”

    Matthews called the GOP a party of grand wizards and colluded with the pretense that a guy with an AR-15 was white at a political rally so he could support the angry, white, armed, racist males hate this black president meme. He claimed that Sarah Palin was partially responsible for Gifford’s getting shot.

    The more he squirms the better.

  124. palaeomerus says:

    “This. I don’t understand your term “neo-confederate”, pala. What does that mean?”

    Curmudgeon called me a neo-confederate in this very thread. To defend Lincoln. Because only a neo-confederate would attack Lincoln on any point. Lincoln good.

  125. palaeomerus says:

    “The Cars are indeed better than REO Speedwagon.”

    Not live they aren’t.

  126. palaeomerus says:

    “Instead, you’ve brandished Obama’s misuse of Lincoln. Gleefully, for some reason.”

    It proves that Obama considers himself to be following Lincoln’s pattern of expanding federal executive power and influence for the common good as he perceives it. Explicitly. It shows that the people saying that Obama’s misuse of executive power has nothing to do with Lincoln’s misuse of executive power and entirely independent of it were wrong. Obama does find precedent and inspiration in Lincoln’s actions. He brags about it.

    Duh.

  127. palaeomerus says:

    “Not live they aren’t.”

    I should say weren’t. Quite a while ago now that I saw them live.

  128. bh says:

    REO Speedwagon put on good shows or The Cars put on not so hot ones?

  129. cranky-d says:

    I’m not sure comparing The Cars to REO Speedwagon is a viable comparison. They don’t occupy the same musical niche.

  130. palaeomerus says:

    “REO Speedwagon put on good shows or The Cars put on not so hot ones?”

    Yes.

    (At least back in the day. I think I saw REO first. I was surprised at how cool their show was. The Cars were just sort of doing a third string tour date I think.)

  131. leigh says:

    Curmudgeon called me a neo-confederate in this very thread. To defend Lincoln. Because only a neo-confederate would attack Lincoln on any point.

    Well okay. I am not an historian, we’ll have to wait for Ernst to return for that, but I’m sure this argument has been hashed and rehashed before. I am not in agreement with your argument about Lincoln being Obama’s muse, but it’s your argument, not mine.

    Obama is a fool and boy-king. I think Lincoln was a humble man and greatly tested by his duties to the young and fractured republic and his personal life. There is no comparison between the two except in Obama’s mind.

  132. bh says:

    They were both big when I was a little kid, cranky. That’s the category they share in my mind.

    Always liked REO because I equate it with dancing with girls I liked at high school dances (they were on the playlist every dance for some reason) while I’ve only started liking The Cars through youtube the last few years.

  133. bh says:

    That’s cool, palaeo.

  134. cranky-d says:

    Ah. I liked The Cars when they arrived on the scene. I was on the edge of hitting high school.

    On the other hand, REO had the album “High Infidelity” out when I was in high school. That album got a lot of radio play.

    Never saw either of them live.

  135. palaeomerus says:

    “Obama is a fool and boy-king. I think Lincoln was a humble man and greatly tested by his duties to the young and fractured republic and his personal life. ”

    None of that changes anything. I agree with much of what you said.

    And yet I still think that Lincoln put the first big crack in the dam that held back federal power and started the ascension of the executive towards being the central planning office for the nation. The reasons for Lincoln doing what he did don’t change what he did or the effects of it. It’s not about his personality or talents or anything like that. It’s about his role in the erosion of the state and in people’s own individual right to live their one lives. And it was done in the name of the public good. (Not socialism, or progressivism though the republicans quickly developed their own progressive wing). And my thesis is that expanding executive power for the public good every time someone wants a problem solved leads to a bureaucratic, authoritarian, collectivist hell and general failure. It’s the perfect excuse. You don’t want poverty do you? You don’t want old people to starve to death do you? You don’t want ‘generic bad thing’ do you? Then give me power and money I’ll work on it for you!

  136. palaeomerus says:

    If it came to CD’s I’d prefer the Cars I think.

  137. newrouter says:

    it is interesting how black ghetto culture has infiltrated the popular high school culture in the last 30 years? race to the bottom or sumthing.

  138. palaeomerus says:

    Tom Petty and Heart breakers are damned fine listening too. Aand I like some of the local Ska tapes I have accreted over the years quite a bit. The Grownups and the Suspects especially. I also like Reverend Horton Heat a whole bunch though I only have two of his CD’s which are often lent out. He’s a pretty funny guy. (There ain’t no Saguaro in Texas, but we sure got a lot of prickly pear!)

    I have a mild headache now. I think I’ll back off until tomorrow.

  139. leigh says:

    Did Tom Petty get his stolen guitars back?

  140. leigh says:

    One of the best outdoor concerts I saw was Huey Lewis and the News. No special effects, but still awesome.

  141. TmjUtah says:

    The Nutter numbers and story were a “push”; same part of the playbook as the Tanning Tax, “deeming passed” for legislation, extrajudicial assassination, and lately the vacating of habeus corpus protections by executive order.

    Push a stupid, unbelievable regulation, law, or storyline out there and let media do the lifting.

    This Nutter thing was fail. “Math is Hard” to some folks. Folks that actually have budgets and balance checkbooks (which means persons who probably aren’t government) don’t find it hard at all to see where the lie is here.

    All the words, including the “the’s” and “ands”.

    It’s Big Lie time; kind of early for “Hail Mary” stuff, but somebody fucked up and killed Osama ahead of schedule.

  142. TmjUtah says:

    Oops. Killed OSAMA ahead of schedule.

    Jeff, or any other host, feel free to make an edit if you are so inclined.

  143. bh says:

    Full Moon Fever (sans the Heartbreakers) was one of the first cds I ever owned. Man, I played the hell out of that album. It was driving music.

  144. motionview says:

    Jim Croce on an 8-track with a matchbook as a vernier control.

  145. Dale Price says:

    It proves that Obama considers himself to be following Lincoln’s pattern of expanding federal executive power and influence for the common good as he perceives it. Explicitly. It shows that the people saying that Obama’s misuse of executive power has nothing to do with Lincoln’s misuse of executive power and entirely independent of it were wrong. Obama does find precedent and inspiration in Lincoln’s actions. He brags about it.

    Duh.

    I’ve said what I can say, and have backed it with facts. If you want to give credence to a sentence ripped from context and quoted by the community organizer, so be it. In a speech he didn’t write and no doubt spit up by the geniuses who brought us the “Intercontinental Railroad” and fake Rutherford B. Hayes quotes.

    I’m not going to let the Left revise history to fit their paradigm and to suit their needs of the moment. Mileage on that varies.

    Apologies for my sharp elbows, and I’m bowing out.

  146. leigh says:

    Thanks pala! I was thinking about those guitars the other day (one of my brothers collects Les Paul stratocasters) and hoping that they found the prick who stole them and that they were returned unharmed.

    That’s harsh. Stealin’ a man’s axe.

  147. happyfeet says:

    I used to fool around but I couldn’t take the punishment so I had to settle down

  148. happyfeet says:

    true story

  149. happyfeet says:

    excuse me but that comparison is not viable

  150. leigh says:

    Les Pauls and Stratocasters

    Sorry for sounding dumb up there.

  151. McGehee says:

    Seems to me Jeff has had a few things to say about people who take what somebody did or said and reinterpreting it for their own purposes. That’s what Obama did when he talked about Lincoln. It’s what he does when he talks about any great American.

    It’s what he does when he orders from the McDonald’s drive-thru.

  152. leigh says:

    Are you home now, McGehee? How was the vacation?

  153. bh says:

    Jim Croce on an 8-track with a matchbook as a vernier control.

    Did I have to google anything from this comment? Sure. I’m happy to inform you that it wasn’t “Jim Croce”, “8-track”, or “matchbook”. I still don’t get it though.

    I don’t know if I’ve ever been in a car with an 8-track player. I think I’ve seen the cartridges though.

  154. Ernst Schreiber says:

    neo-confederate is an argument killer, leigh. Sorta like “because shut up, that’s why”

    and Lincoln GOOD, come to think of it.

  155. cranky-d says:

    When we took the custom van from San Diego to Alaska we mostly used the 8-track. Bought a few in some store north of SD, but I have no idea where. The Eagles greatest hits (one of my selections that everyone approved of) got the most play. I also got a Beach Boys album that was disappointing due to the number of instrumentals on it. I was just hitting my beach music phase.

    I was 13. I kept my father company when he drove, while my younger sister (younger than my other sister, not younger than me) and her friend took the other shifts. I recall going down the road somewhere in Canada listening to Willie Nelson on a crappy cassette player singing “I gotta get drunk.”

    Good times.

  156. palaeomerus says:

    “I’ve said what I can say, and have backed it with facts.”

    Nah. You ignored my examples except to throw in a few contextual ‘explanations’ that had nothing to do proving or disproving with my assertion. You threw around a few lame straw men such as “land grants do not lead directly to Omabacare therefore subsidized federal land settling has nothing at all to do with developing the expansion of authority that lead to Obamacare and neither did anything else, plus Andrew Jackson and stuff. Prove it did. Except don’t quote Obama saying it did.” You offered no reasonable explanation why we should include Andrew Jackson and exclude Lincoln from the influence chain.

    You wasted my time with extremely stupid cheap shots like “why do you want to help the left to coopt/destroy lincoln” (contradictory goals BTW) .

    None of that addressed much of anything.

  157. bh says:

    That does sound like good times.

  158. bh says:

    I’d like to contribute to the Lincoln discussion.

    He was the ideal height for a man.

  159. bh says:

    Here is a chart.

  160. palaeomerus says:

    “Seems to me Jeff has had a few things to say about people who take what somebody did or said and reinterpreting it for their own purposes. That’s what Obama did when he talked about Lincoln.”

    So you do NOT believe that Obama believes that he is just following what Lincoln did which is expanding his federal executive power beyond the prior limits because he has good things he can do with it and he’s on the right side of history? You do not agree that there is a chain of such expansions where where the prior ones are used to excuse the current ones because they are for the public good or demanded by the times? That these expansions took place at the expense of state and individual liberty and power? That they pointed to the idea of the federal government more and more being the powerful actor that was required to do what lesser entities could not, and eventually what they could do? And do you not agree that these impositions build on one another and inspire further future expansions of federal power and are mentioned explicitly as inspiration for such?

  161. leigh says:

    Thanks, Ernst. I’m with you: Lincoln GOOD!

  162. sdferr says:

    For a more synoptic view of the tension of the strong executive in the creation of the executive powers in American Republican government, I’d recommend a perusal of Harvey Mansfield’s address at AEI on the occasion of the celebration of Washington’s birthday last Feb. It seems to me the problem will always be a problem, simply on account of contingencies (conntingencies which the framers recognized will necessarily arise in moments of crisis) which will always be uncertain, bu which will also always require efficient decision and action, hence never simply definitive for the purposes and aims of law-making. But see Mansfield’s account.

  163. BT says:

    Whippersnappers.

    I remember riding around in a 65 Corvair Monza with a turntable that played 45’s. Good idea but they never got the stabilizers right and a lot of collectable 45’s ended up as frisbees. 8 tracks came along soon afterward.

    First concert was Paul Revere and the Raiders at a mall opening. First real concert was the Beach Boys. Saw the Beatles at Atlanta Stadium. Heard Cream at Chastain from the stables.

  164. Ernst Schreiber says:

    It proves that Obama considers himself to be following Lincoln’s pattern of expanding federal executive power and influence for the common good as he perceives it.

    No it doesn’t. It proves that Obama will claim he’s just percieves himself following in the footsteps of Lincoln. We don’t have to accept that at face value any more than we accept anything else Obama says. Obama saying it doesn’t make it true, even if Obama himself subjectively believes it to be true

    Saying Lincoln shouldn’t have done X because X made it easier for Obama to justify doing Y 150 years after the fact, and therefore Lincoln is ultimately responsible for Y, is to my mind more than a bit like saying Rush Limbaugh was wrong to say “I hope he fails” because he should have known the Democrats and their media allies would misuse his words.

    As a folk-wise cab driver once said to Spencer Tracy, “The man’s dead. And dead men can’t rightly defend themselves.”

  165. palaeomerus says:

    Context for the use of my “argument killer” :

    ““This. I don’t understand your term “neo-confederate”, pala. What does that mean?”

    Curmudgeon called me a neo-confederate in this very thread. To defend Lincoln.
    Because only a neo-confederate would attack Lincoln on any point. Lincoln good.”

    ——

    ” “We believe, in the words of our first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, that through government, we should do together what we cannot do as well for ourselves. –”
    President Barack Obama, speaking on April 13, 2011

    But there’s no precedent. No lineage there. Look away. Lincoln GOOD. “

  166. bh says:

    As sdferr is on an old computer which probably makes finding these things and linking a pain, he’s mentioned this to me in the past. The video is here (starting around 44 minutes) and the text is here.

  167. palaeomerus says:

    “No it doesn’t. It proves that Obama will claim he’s just percieves himself following in the footsteps of Lincoln. We don’t have to accept that at face value any more than we accept anything else Obama says. Obama saying it doesn’t make it true, even if Obama himself subjectively believes it to be true
    Saying Lincoln shouldn’t have done X because X made it easier for Obama to justify doing Y 150 years after the fact, and therefore Lincoln is ultimately responsible for Y, is to my mind more than a bit like saying Rush Limbaugh was wrong to say “I hope he fails” because he should have known the Democrats and their media allies would misuse his words.”

    Obama ‘misused’ his actions and his interpretation of the intent to grow government so it can help people and better meet the challenges of the era.

    If you don’t want to take it at face value that’s fine but it’s Obama using Lincoln’s record as a justification for his own actions and Lincoln does have a record of expanding federal executive power for the sake of what he saw as necessity and duty. And it did not really contract afterward nor was there any expectation that it would.

  168. bh says:

    I remember riding around in a 65 Corvair Monza with a turntable that played 45?s.

    Are you kidding? I’m asking because I can’t tell. They put record players in cars?

  169. motionview says:

    bh you used to have to slide the matchbook in with the 8-track cartridge just right to get the 8 tracks/playing head lined up correctly. In every 8-track player ever made. Screwdrivers and very narrowly smashed down beer cans might work in a pinch. Or you could just get it over with and fix it forever with a big hammer.

  170. BT says:

    “Are you kidding? I’m asking because I can’t tell. They put record players in cars?”

    Yep

  171. bh says:

    That sounds like a nightmare, mv.

  172. palaeomerus says:

    “Y 150 years after the fact, and therefore Lincoln is ultimately responsible for Y,”

    This is just the a->b->c->d; a does not directly influence d and so had no influence on d even though d says it did because d lies. This is like saying early discussion of federalist issue have no place in a discussion about today because it;’ been too long for them to hold relevance.

    I don’t think the bit about Rush and interpretation have much to do with anything. Lincoln did expand his federal executive authority and prototyped federal intervention in areas it was previously not a major actor in. That is not Obama’s interpretation of Lincoln. Lincoln did. Obama may not be following Lincoln in any other tradition worth note but he IS following in the federal expansion footsteps and he is using Lincoln as one of his inspirations. What Lincoln did has had long term consequences for the states and individuals. Certainly Lincoln is not solely responsible but I never said he was and have already covered that by mentioning FDR and Johnson widening the crack.

  173. bh says:

    That sounds like a nightmare, BT.

  174. Ernst Schreiber says:

    I thought it was appropriate the first time. It’s the repitition that makes it an argument killer Palaeomerus.

  175. leigh says:

    No wonder they were “Unsafe at Any Speed.”

  176. sdferr says:

    Thanks for linking that, and truly said bh, as it’s a tremendous pain even to type this. Linking and viewing is quite out of reach to me for now.

  177. BT says:


    Photo

    Close but not exact.

    If memory serves, the turntable would take stacks of records.

  178. BT says:

    The biggest problem with 8 tracks was they would eat tapes. Same with cassettes.

  179. McGehee says:

    Palaeo, I don’t give a shit whether Obama believes it. If he does, it’s his opinion, not fact. Fuck him.

  180. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Obama ‘misused’ his actions and his interpretation of the intent to grow government so it can help people and better meet the challenges of the era.
    If you don’t want to take it at face value that’s fine but it’s Obama using Lincoln’s record as a justification for his own actions and Lincoln does have a record of expanding federal executive power for the sake of what he saw as necessity and duty. And it did not really contract afterward nor was there any expectation that it would.

    Here’s the difference that matters: Growing government to better help people meet challenges is neither necessary nor a duty, however desirable. “Preserv[ing], Protect[ing] and Defend[ing] the Constitution” is.

    And if you plan on coming back at me with the Transcontinental Railroad, you’d better damn Eisenhower for the Interstate Highway System while you’re at it.

  181. bh says:

    Thanks for the photo link, BT. My mind has been blown.

  182. happyfeet says:

    Boise is a wonderful and special place who knew

    once when I was little at my cousins cousin B had an 8-track of porn it was very explicit and I didn’t know what to make of it at the time

    8-track porn who knew

    cousin B is on the disibilitah now, mostly filing lawsuits for a living

    god bless him

  183. bh says:

    Have you guys considered the fact that Abraham Lincoln turned everyone from Jersey into shrieking whores?

    (That’s known as a callback in the business.)

  184. cranky-d says:

    You’re probably thinking Super 8 hf. Porn is usually a visual medium, is it not?

  185. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Obama may not be following Lincoln in any other tradition worth note but he IS following in the federal expansion footsteps[.]

    That’s what I meant by false teleology. It doesn’t follow that because Lincoln expanded the power of the federal government and it was good, all expansions of federal government are good**.
    Similarly, it doesn’t follow that because Obama contines to expand an already expansive federal government previously expanded by Johnson and Roosevelt to good purpose, all prior expansions of federal power likewise served no good purpose.

    Some of it has been good, some of it bad, or foolish or even tragic. The good the bad and the ugly need to be sorted out on a case by case basis, cognizant of the full historical context.

    **The fact that Obama is trying to uphold Lincoln, instead of the more appropriate Wilson, FDR or LBJ, indicates to me an awareness of just how toxic the legacy of big government progressivism-cum-liberalism remains —despite the Era of Reagan being over. So we got that going for us at least.

  186. cranky-d says:

    Thinking it over, I can imagine that you could have 8-track porn.

  187. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Lincoln was a railroad lawyer. That’s probably a bit like being a Wall Street hedgefund mananger these days.

    Or sumptin.

  188. bh says:

    I use frivolous eschatology when looking forward, Ernst. I’ve heard false teleology before but this discussion has been useful contextually.

    For my word understandin’ and all.

  189. happyfeet says:

    it was for reals 8-track porn it was story about a kid what got kept after school by his teacher, and boy they got up to all kinds of shenanigans…

    and then the principal lady walked in

    yup

    the principal is your pal

  190. cranky-d says:

    So, two “older women” and one young guy. Imagine the hijinks.

  191. bh says:

    Nah, Wall Street hedge fund managers are called bankstahs now. And we hate them just as much as Occupy Wall Street does, I guess.

    Didn’t see that coming.

    I hear the weather in Singapore is nice this time of century.

  192. cranky-d says:

    That is so trippy, geoffb.

  193. bh says:

    That’s both insane and maybe the coolest thing I’ve ever seen, Geoff. This makes me an empty headed fool but my only frame of reference here is imagining Xzibit putting a record player into a DJs car on Pimp My Ride.

  194. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Now that I think about it, false teleology probably belongs in the department of redundancy department, verbose bastard that I am.

    And wordy too.

  195. geoffb says:

    The really neat thing for me comes at 11 sec and is in the video scene as just below the speedometer but was actually off to the right of it. Those push buttons are the automatic transmission gear shift.

  196. bh says:

    This is probably OT but I’m pretty sure that the first person to use “bankstah” and the variations on this blog was nishi.

    Think about that.

  197. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Do you suppose she’s out there personally breeding the new master race, or has she finally found something more meaningful to do with her life?

  198. happyfeet says:

    I saw nishi the other day she gave me a music

  199. happyfeet says:

    she’s spirited as ever

  200. geoffb says:

    And here it is.

  201. cranky-d says:

    No improvement in her behavior then. That isn’t surprising.

  202. bh says:

    I’m guessing she’s deeply immersed in Sufi manga controversies online and unhappy at work.

  203. cranky-d says:

    Someone with that many chips on the shoulder is unhappy in general.

  204. bh says:

    Very good, Geoff. Cheers.

    Nishi was on “bankstah” over two years ago. Yeah, that’s an awesome path to follow.

  205. Ernst Schreiber says:

    You scroll down three comments and you see that Jeff’s predictions were better than Nishi’s.

  206. bh says:

    When she started bothering me I asked for predictions on comp immigration reform and she said very silly things.

    Very silly things. When you can’t imagine how a poor economy changes the terrain… you’re as intelligent as nishi.

  207. Pablo says:

    The biggest problem with 8 tracks was they would eat tapes. Same with cassettes.

    Salvaging an eaten tape was a bit of an art form. I was a fucking master.

  208. bh says:

    Hey, ‘feets, here’s a comment from that thread that I sometimes wonder about.

    Any thoughts?

  209. bh says:

    I miss SBP, btw. I hope he’s doing well.

  210. Pablo says:

    I don’t know if I’ve ever been in a car with an 8-track player. I think I’ve seen the cartridges though.

    I’ve been in a car crash with an 8 track player. A Malibu SS. Hendrix’s Smash Hits was playing. Good times. Because it wasn’t my car and I wasn’t driving.

  211. geoffb says:

    I had an 8 track in my 1966 VW camper bus in 1970-71. It got stolen and when I got around to replacing it I went for a cassette deck. Somewhere stored in our basement is a home 8 track player and some tapes.

  212. bh says:

    These 8-tracks seem to be connected with terrible events. I’m thinking about making sure there isn’t one in my house right now.

  213. Ernst Schreiber says:

    It’s sorta funny to read somebody prattling on about demography and destiny and recreational sex and the right to prophylactic abortion on demand with no regard for causation or correlation or the differences therein. All in the name of SCIENCE.

    But mostly it’s sad. And kind of pathetic.

  214. bh says:

    And then it’s funny again.

  215. Pablo says:

    I dunno if it’s whimsy or memory, but I think Crosstown Traffic was on.

  216. Ernst Schreiber says:

    If you follow the links to Jonah’s corner post about the Culture Wars that nishi was attemptimg to mock in her own special way, you’ll read the following:

    [O]n another level, this legislation [i.e. Obamacare] is a superconducting super collider of culture-war conflagrations. It will throw off new and unforeseen cultural spectacles for years to come (if it is not repealed). The grinding debate over the Stupak amendment was just a foretaste. The government has surged over the breakwater and is now going to flood the nooks and crannies of American life. Americans will now fight over what tax dollars should cover and not cover. Debates over “subsidizing” this “lifestyle” or that “personal choice” will erupt. And when conservatives complain, liberals will blame them for perpetuating the culture war. [emph. add.]

    How appropriate! Contraceptive mandate, anyone? Or how about Republican war on women!

    Stupid Catholic institutions! How are good progressives like Nishi going to see to it that you become evolutionary dead end if you won’t embrace contraception and abortion?
    What about teh DEMOGRAPHY?!?

  217. bh says:

    This is our chance to use teleology in a sentence again, isn’t it?

  218. guinspen says:

    nishizonoshinji is the mistress of tediology.

  219. JHoward says:

    The Constitutional Republic and the Dollar are dying…from murder in slow-motion, just as surely as if they had been poisoned by Lucretia Borgia.
    – Instead, the modern version features Washington and Wall Street. The end result will be the same, unless a massive dose of syrup of ipecac is ingested this November at election time, and the US manages to puke-out the rottenness.

    Americans are NOT being shepherded by altruistic wise men, but, herded by psychopatic predators (politicians), enabled by thieves calling themselves bankers (sounds ‘nicer’ eh? – just like sociopath sounds ‘nicer’ than psychopath while meaning the exact same thing).
    – Criminals ALL.

  220. JHoward says:

    Wall Street hedge fund managers are called bankstahs now. And we hate them just as much as Occupy Wall Street does, I guess.

    Didn’t see that coming.

    I hear the weather in Singapore is nice this time of century.

    Welcome, brother bh. Good to have you aboard.

    We gave em the power to print, connive, and debauch and darned if they didn’t go right out and do it. Banksters living in the Wall Street-DC corridor on taxpaid dispensation hold exposures pushing ten times the entire US national debt.

    This is called too big to fail. The FDIC not so much and the taxpayer not at all.

  221. Dale Price says:

    Nah. You ignored my examples except to throw in a few contextual ‘explanations’ that had nothing to do proving or disproving with my assertion. You threw around a few lame straw men such as “land grants do not lead directly to Omabacare therefore subsidized federal land settling has nothing at all to do with developing the expansion of authority that lead to Obamacare and neither did anything else, plus Andrew Jackson and stuff. Prove it did. Except don’t quote Obama saying it did.” You offered no reasonable explanation why we should include Andrew Jackson and exclude Lincoln from the influence chain.

    You wasted my time with extremely stupid cheap shots like “why do you want to help the left to coopt/destroy lincoln” (contradictory goals BTW) .

    None of that addressed much of anything.

    All-righty.

    None of your explanations were more that superficially comparable, that was the problem. None–as in zero–of the legislative acts you cited were precedent for anything. As you continue to refuse to acknowledge because LINCOLN EVIL, to turn your rhetorical range back on yourself, calling the Homestead Act an expansion of federal power is deeply, deeply stupid. Because the Federal government selling its land is not exactly precedent for the massive land grab the Federal government has been engaged in over the last generation, either through direct buying or environmental regulation.

    That’s your spleen talking, not your brain.

    You call Lincoln “the crack” without considering whether or not earlier executive actions might have been worse. You don’t consider whether or not a peacetime President telling the Supreme Court to stuff it in a land seizure case might be worse precedent–a bigger crack–than Lincoln’s in telling Taney to piss off during an insurrection. To do so does not “exclude” Lincoln from the chain, but offers a context lacking from Lincoln Evil.

    And, like it or not, by a monomaniacal focus on Lincoln, you are handing him over to the progressives and destroying him at the same time. It’s hardly contradictory–letting the Left claim him destroys his legacy of freedom while advancing its goals. “We’re the real party of Lincoln!” Letting Leftist pseudohistory reign is destructive that way.

    Accepting an Obama quote from the 2011 SOTU as cinching proof for your Devil Lincoln thesis is weak, there’s no two ways around it. If he’d brandished it during the actual launch of his authoritarian initiative, you would have a strong argument. An air-biscuit from two years later is post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

  222. happyfeet says:

    Mr. bh I think nishi is playful more than anything

    she always seems like she’s having fun doing whatever it is she’s doing

    and I think she genuinely believes Team R is bad for America’s soul

    who can really argue that

  223. Pellegri says:

    I prefer “pants on head retarded” to “shits own pants ward”, but if you combine them you get some amusing imagery.

Comments are closed.