David Thompson politely examines philosophy professor Jere Surber’s “argument” that academics in the Humanities naturally trend “liberal” because their nuanced understanding of the “complexities of history” — to which they lay claim as a function of having made it all the way through Georg Lukács’ History and Class Consciousness without once stopping to purchase a Diet Coke, presumably — leads them to an obvious intellectual endpoint: progressivism.
That progressivism — and the socialism and soft fascism required for its intellectual undergirding — keeps failing as it runs into the realities of the market (and the unintended consequences that result from attempting to subvert individualism in favor of a kind of state-monitored tribalism by way of increasingly intrusive legislation) seems never to trouble those like Surber; in fact, their idea of intellectualism, inasmuch as it brackets actual data in favor of privileging political and social desire, is not really intellectualism at all. Instead, it’s a rather wordy masturbation fantasy.
Which is why the proper response to Dr Surber would be to approach him outside the faculty lounge and say something like, “Tell me, philosophy boy… what is the sound of one hand clapping?”
— Then, when he hesitates, slap him across his face.
From there I recommend you go get yourself a pack of Hostess Snowballs and enjoy the delicious combination of sugar-coated coconut sliver, marshmallow, and soft cookie platform. Trust me: you’ll get more out of it than you would trying to argue the smug off a philosophy teacher’s face.
****
See also, Jonah Goldberg, here and here.
Well, I just figured Jere Surber couldn’t pass calculus.
What’s the area under the curve, Jere? C’mon, smart guy.
Progressives lawmaking: Whack-a-mole played on a national stage.
Hmm, extra “s” at the end of “progressive.”
I propose we start a band and call it this.
Frankly, for the reasons you cite, I’ve become a disciple of Jean-Baptiste Botul. If Lévy can do it, so can I.
Regards.
Is it possible to be both redundant and an oxymoron? I kind of feel that way about “fake philosopher”.
Just wondering about the denizens of this blog: How did any of you manage to major in the Humanities (or similar soft subject) and yet not come to the right conclusions about how the world works?
Besides a mortal dread of the demonsheep, I mean.
Oh Jeff to have you as a college professor.. the fun I could have while learning instead of being indoctrinated.
From R. Sherman’s link (for which, thanks Mr. Sherman), the last line:
Ah history, our savior and hero.
In the meantime, Mr Pagès will keep his own knowings (clappings?) to himself.
I dropped out before it had time to take.
Besides my essentially ad hom snark, there is another way to think about this. Would it be harder to get a good grade in Jeff’s class or in a bizarro world liberal Jeff’s class?
In one, you couldn’t bullshit. Personally, I always found bullshit was even easier than slightly expanding the page margins.
John Derbyshire comments here:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YTNkMTgzYzk4Y2Q4NjgwMzhhMmZkMDZjZjczZDMwNmM=
and here
http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Culture/2cultures.html
The Hostess Snowball is best enjoyed in one bite. Both at once not recommended for the novice.
…and that, as you know, is as intellectual as I get.
I can’t even express how immensely hilarious I find Sherman’s link.
Perhaps this is on topic, who knows? One thing I’ve always loved about those with musical ability is the way they have this fantastic brain function that’s fairly rare and they never seem to rub your nose in it.
From the second Jonah Goldberg link.
Why don’t you see more liberals in health care, natural sciences or law enforcement? Easy answer – those are all areas which require direct accountability and responsibility for results. Last time I looked, no one is ever held responsible for a garish painting or a poorly written novel.
I had history figured out by the time I was about twelve:
The side with the most artillery wins.
Right up until 1945, great powers fought wars of decision. Winners, and losers. The basic humanity inherent in our Republic – and the physical and moral weariness resulting from fighting two world wars – brought on a period of joust and posture that has lasted to this day. The Bear died of economic contradiction concomitant with totalitarianism… but we’ve since pretty well ceded the “good guy” hat as public policy.
We’ve elected a government (all of it) evenly split between self-loathing free men and baby sitters.
Hope I don’t live to see the return of winner take all. Because with the current cast of characters, we’d lose.
“I don’t live to see the return of winner take all.”
where’s the nuance in that?
I, like, for-real hated The Man and shit, in an already almost fully complexified way, so seeing his mind at work behind all right conclusions, and his (very) face on the signers-on to those conclusions, I was all “Nuh-uh.”
It was like disillusionment, but much faster.
I feel kinda knee-jerky. Guys like Umberto Eco kick all kinds of ass. And, of course, probably a dozen others I’m simply ignorant of.
There’s just so much bathwater and so little baby though. It’s hard to resist the temptation.
Two Dogmas of Empiricism, might make a nice pairing with the Two Cultures and the Scientific Revolution, if we can find it.
Sorry bh, Umberto must be beaten soundly in payment for the ending of “the Mysterious Flame of Queen Laona”. Then he can go back about his business.
Good original writing is hard as good original science is also. However, to echo, perhaps, bh a bit.
If the hard sciences at the college level were to follow the model of the Humanities then there would exist honored Departments, complete with Chair-persons, faculty, advanced degrees, in Alchemy and Astrology standing right along side the Chemistry and Astronomy Departments.
This is not inherent in the Humanities but is a consequence of Leftist politics which has brought this marker to the areas of study it most thoroughly infests. The CRU scandal is/was one attempt at bringing the same political influenced education to infest the sciences.
I did poli sci at Emory. Poli Sci is a field of varying levels of scientific rigor, depending on your concentration. A lot of it is pure humanities (narrative, case-study, etc.), but a good bit of it has become empirical. I had a thesis advisor who persuaded me to do a statistical (regression analysis) project about Supreme Court decision-making. Which made it quite a bit more scientific than some of the papers being cobbled together by my peers. Said advisor, by the way, is an unabashed liberal — but not the sort to preach it or hold against you your contrarian ideas. Still keep in touch with him. Solid dude.
Heh, LTC John, perhaps so.
You guys ever hear about the baseball player Rube Waddell? Apparently he was a bit soft in the head (allegedly) and opposing fans could distract him by holding up puppies. I feel like that sometimes with sdferr’s philosophy links. I start reading them, then I feel like I have to diagram some of the ideas or come up with little formulas. Then, later, I think “Oh yeah, there’s a comment thread going on and Lost is about to be on TV.”
But, for a better analogy, I’m like a Rube Waddell who gets distracted by a puppy held up by a teammate.
Well, I started out intending to go J-school, dropped out to join the Marine Corps, went back on a ROTC scholarship as an English major, then finished up my active duty tour instead of graduating. So naturally I work in IT now.
Demonsheep, I have shotguns for…
G R Elton was not a progressive. Yet, he was an historian. Just sayin
It’s really stunning to think so many right wingers have bought Jonah Goldberg’s brand of revisionist history and pseudo intellectualism. It is really pathetic, fixing the facts around a policy. Sound familiar? The thing is, his audience is so poorly educated, they actually buy the shit … hook, line and sinker. Goldberg has been thoroughly debunked. But, if you like a little wingnut masturbation, enjoy his BS.
Anyone else imagine Bobaloo was one of those “edgy” types on campus who carried around the little red book all serious like?
“Just sayin” is shorthand for, “there’s a point to be made here. maybe about how the texts don’t fall in line with the agenda of the instucting prof using the the text”, but its global warmining again to the tune of another 20 inches or so and since I have no intention of risking life and limb to play fool for the “man” tomorrow, I’ve decided the best recourse is Beefeaters. Just sayin.
Non sequitur much?
It makes you look dumb, Bob. Keep fucking that chicken though.
I think Bob nicely illustrated the points Jonah made today on NRO.
Oh, yea, and Bob, if indeed that is your real name, since I’ve decided to blow off tomorrow, I’ve got a full night of wingnut masterbating ahead of me. “Oh Jonah .. oh god oh god oh god .. pseudo intellectualism .. ism .. ism.. “. Where’s the kleenix when you need it?
I always thought that Georg Lukács should have quit after Return of the Jedi. The last three movies sucked.
Goldberg … Thoroughly debunked
One of the most persistent components of this is the right’s ardent embrace of the fraudulent thesis of Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism — to wit, that “properly understood, fascism is not a phenomenon of the right at all. Instead, it is, and always has been, a phenomenon of the left.” The embrace of this fraud as somehow truthful has produced those teabaggers’ signs bearing swastikas (suggesting that health-care reform is fascist) and signs showing Barack Obama as Hitler and, moreover, the claims that Obama is marching the nation down the road to fascism.
These pseudo intellectual assertions by Goldberg are distilled down to the teabaggers by the likes of Glen Beck and his chalk board. You know the Tea Klux Klan that has contributed so much intelligent debate on today’s most important issues… like Obama the Nazi-fascist-socialist, Obama’s birth certificate, and Obama’s continuing efforts to kill your grandmother, etc…
Real bright bulbs we have here.
Bob:
Dropping a big steaming pile of ad hominem in a comment section might constitute a fine argument over at crooks and liars, but over here, you gots to back it up with one of two things:
• A sound argument
• A bitchin’ submission hold
You’re 0-2 so far. Wanna try again?
I don’t think “debunked” means what Bob apparently thinks it means.
Okay, which one of you is doing Bob? A bit of the top but a pretty good facsimile overall.
Someone was absent the day Sister taught debunking.
I say “apparently” because I wouldn’t presume to claim a divination of his intent.
Bob, did you know that “Bob” spelled backwords is Bob?
Seems Jonah didn’t take that supposed debunking and just run away home, Bob.
Oh, and just so you know? The punctuation marks used here are more intelligent than you are.
I hope Bob doesn’t spend as much time fitting men’s testicles into his mouth as he does into his prose.
Not that there’s anything with that, naturally — just that it would leave him so little time for all that learnin’ he’s been missing.
(Meanwhile, back in Bobland, Bob feverishly googles “response to jonah debunk of criticism”. Ho hum.)Where is the damn vaseline?
IP address is from Twin Peaks, Washington . . .
You have got to know that when your big gun is that imbecile Neiwert, things aren’t going to go well for you.
I’d sure like a cup of Joe about now.
But what about Bob?
“I understood the infamous terror which this movement exerts, particularly on the bourgeoisie, which is neither morally nor mentally equal to such attacks; at a given sign it unleashes a veritable barrage of lies and slanders against whatever adversary seems most dangerous, until the nerve of the person breaks down…”
Adolph Hitler as quoted by William Shirer in “The Rise and Fall of the third Reich”
Neatly describes the tactics of the liberal left.
Try again, Bob.
Is there a German word for “I find empiricism hard to pin down but at least I’m not Bob”?
Seems like there at least ought to be.
My wife had a friend at college named “Bob“. Such a fine friend that he lives with us still. He makes more sense in the world than the “Bob” trolling through here, but then her “Bob” was given the last name of Marley so he has something to live up to.
Bob?
boB?
(Bob – Did you see what I just did there?)
Seriously, Bob, you’ve had like 25 minutes to cut and paste a response. And yet… nothing. Where is the love?
those teabaggers’ signs bearing swastikas (suggesting that health-care reform is fascist) and signs showing Barack Obama as Hitler and, moreover, the claims that Obama is marching the nation down the road to fascism.
Oh goody, yet another scrotum-dipping-obsessed Leftbot with a few index cards of spam points to randomly drop into comment sections.
Bobby “claim” seems to be since Goldberg’s book as been THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED!!1!! nothing Goldberg says, now or ever can ever be right. Never. Always lies.
boring, empty tactic.
Also, I imagine regular readers of this site bought into the liberal fascism thesis long before Jonah’s book on the subject, if for no other reason than I’ve been making the same argument for years — albeit, I’ve used certain ideas about language held by the left intelligentsia (and the concession to such ideas on the right) as my jumping off point.
You’re free to disagree, Bob — and counter the arguments — but to show up here and pretend that you’re dealing with a bunch of slack-jawed cousin fuckers is just going to end poorly for you.
That’s a little better, Bob. At least you produced a thesis statement:
Unfortunately, that’s Jonah Goldberg’s thesis statement. The rest of your comment consists of one logical fallacy after another, to wit:
Argumentum ad verecundiam
“Goldberg … Thoroughly debunked”
The list you link to contains the protestations of actual progressives who are not about to admit that yeah, their ideological ancestry can trace back to fascism. Not in a million years.
Arugmentum ad hominem
“teabaggers”
“pseudo intellectual assertions”
“teabaggers”
“the likes of Glen Beck and his chalk board”
“Tea Klux Klan”
Petitio Principii
“embrace of this fraud as somehow truthful”
“the right’s ardent embrace of the fraudulent thesis”
Strawmen
“signs bearing swastikas…and signs showing Barack Obama as Hitler”
The Hitler and swastika signs were borne by Lyndon LaRouche supporters, who should never be confused with conservatives.
“Obama the Nazi-fascist-socialist”
“Obama’s birth certificate”
“Obama’s continuing efforts to kill your grandmother”
“Obama is marching the nation down the road to fascism”
Furthermore, you get points take off for not addressing the thesis of this post, which is that intellectuals believe that the ONLY proper interpretation of history is the one they prefer, everyone else being a total moron.
Liberal Fascism doesn’t even address that point.
AND.
The other side point is that the Humanities don’t provide rigorous fields of study, that they’re full of fluff and nonsense.
See if you can see how I’ve deconstructed that thesis in this very comment.
BOB!!!!
Except that I didn’t.
Because I didn’t learn a damn thing about logical fallacies in school. Not even at Cornell (where there is actual Parthenocissus tricuspidata on the walls. I saw it! And I even know that it’s not actually ivy!)
I produced my comment by consulting this web site. Knocked it off in just a few minutes. Most of the commentariat here could do the same.
Also, geoffb, my pony-tail palm is languishing in my east window, above the kitchen sink. But it sure hangs on, even after having the dirt kicked out of it several times.
Dicentra – re #58 – I want to marry you. I have secret sql statements at my beck and whim, btw.
Meanwhile…
Bob?
Bobby?
You left some shit on the floor and you need to clean it up.
ROBERT!
Clean up in aisle “pseudo intellectual Jonah”.
Ooops, I did it again.
Petitio Principii = begging the question. (I can’t have been the only one to hit the ol’ Google for that.)
dicentra
Brava!
Missing comment alert. WordPress ate it and ain’t giving it back.
Bad blogging software. Bad!
I can’t have been the only one to hit the ol’ Google for that
nope. Sometimes I just sit back and marvel at di.
Jeff, you got filters on your comment section? Cuz I said summat that WordPress just doesn’t like.
My undergraduate degrees are in Classics and Philosophy. Classics is most definitely not soft; very few of my classes consisted of more than three students, and one was expected to have prepared the text for each class, which was very often a task which took upwards of four hours per class. If you have multiple Greek and Latin classes in a semester, you might not have much time left over for anything else. Most Classics professors were either Roman Catholic religious, vaguely liberal, or not very much in this world and therefore apolitical.
Philosophy held its share of political proselytizers, but like so much in college you have to suck it up and mutter “jerkoff” under your breath when it makes you feel better. One asshole admitted to liking to give NROTC students in dress a hard time because he could. Would have liked to cockpunch him, as he deserved it.
Was?
Whoa! There it is. Number 66.
Dicentra’s comment didn’t make it through the software because it was so chockful of curses and profanity.
Well, it’s a funny idea anyways.
66?
Di = Alec?
LaRoush signs. LaRoush resume.
Logically can’t be #66. Di, you asked the question.
High School grad.
Went to surveying because somebody has to ensure the stuff all flows downhill.
BTW, you know why George Washington and Abe Lincoln ran for president, right?
At some point in their lives they found themselves knee deep in a snake and mosquito infested swamp, over budget and out of time, equipment, and help and swore that they’d have an inside job next season…
BOB! Listen up.
Seriously, I’ve got foie gras, mission figs, and pork bellies to deal with. Could you please fuckin cut and paste an “intellectual” response soon. Otherwise, you’re just so much bacon.
Oooh.
Bacon.
My undergraduate degrees are in Classics and Philosophy
Yeah. See, if you had to learn ancient Greek or Latin, that’s rigor. If you had to read all of the old philosophers and then expound on them intelligently, that’s rigor.
Linguistics can also be a rigorous subject as long as you’re not stuck in Noam Chomsky land, because you have to deal with actual data and analysis.
Furthermore, a true liberal education would tax the mind something awful. It would turn you into VDH or David Allen White or someone like my now-retired Spanish professor, Ciriaco Morón Arroyo (how cool a name is Ciriaco?), a devout Catholic who was Jesuit trained and who specialized in the history of ideas.
I couldn’t get away with anything when I did my initial work for my thesis. He insisted on precision in terminology like I’d never seen before. He could tell you the ins and outs of Aquinas, Pseudo-Dionysius, Aristotle — anyone — break down the complex neo-Platonic philosophical systems, tell you about the word choices in don Quijote (that few if any modern professors could fathom) and how they informed Cervantes’ concept of the mind.
One of my professors ran into him in Madrid, just by chance, and said he was there to research X. Ciriaco rattled of a series of book titles, chapters, authors, and even Dewey-decimal numbers of books that he’d need to consult. The man was a walking encyclopedia. A scholar’s scholar. Just amazing.
Best of all, he didn’t possess the arrogance of his peers. He knew he was functionally an idiot-savant — extremely gifted in one area but helpless to mediocre in others — and consequently was Not A Leftist.
Liberal Academic Determinism.
They were the ones they’d been waiting for, as their prophecies had foretold. And told and told and told. Waiting, stalled in the lobby without a book. And not a Starbucks in sight. Damn those benches are hard.
Bob talk’ed smack then
Dis’a’pear’ed for ev’er
What a fuck’ing dick.
This is what I’m seeing in Firefox:
64. Comment by dicentra on 2/9 @ 8:02 pm #
Missing comment alert. WordPress ate it and ain’t giving it back.
Bad blogging software. Bad!
65. Comment by Darleen on 2/9 @ 8:02 pm #
I can’t have been the only one to hit the ol’ Google for that
nope. Sometimes I just sit back and marvel at di.
66. Comment by dicentra on 2/9 @ 8:03 pm #
Dammit! The secret to my success is in that missing comment! Lemme try again:
Except that I didn’t.
Because I didn’t learn a damn thing about logical fallacies in school. Not even at Cornell (where there is actual Parthenocissus tricuspidata on the walls. I saw it! And I even know that it’s not actually ivy!)
I produced my comment by consulting this web site. Knocked it off in just a few minutes. Most of the commentariat here could do the same.
Also, geoffb, my pony-tail palm is languishing in my east window, above the kitchen sink. But it sure hangs on, even after having the dirt kicked out of it several times.
67. Comment by dicentra on 2/9 @ 8:04 pm #
Jeff, you got filters on your comment section? Cuz I said summat that WordPress just doesn’t like.
68. Comment by Alec Leamas on 2/9 @ 8:05 pm #
My undergraduate degrees are in Classics and Philosophy
***
If you’re seeing something else, I don’t know what to say.
Firefox here too. Your 66 has been eaten again I think, di.
But! But! I can SEE it. Your last is #81, yeah?
But, no matter, it’s copied now in 78, for me anyways.
Timetravel much? Yes. 81. But, also I think you’re referring to my 79.
You asked about my 81 before I typed it.
Trippy!
Does “eaten it” mean you hit “say it”, the page reloads and your comment just isn’t there? Or does it mean something else?
I hit view source and see that my comment did post originally, as 858812, two posts after my logical fallacies one, as #66.
And I got it again as 858818, which for me is #66.
I didn’t see the original in #60 until I fed it into the URL: https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=16683#comment-858812
Weird. Really weird.
Dicentra doesn’t obey our silly spacetime rules.
Greatest thread ever!
But, also I think you’re referring to my 79.
steph is at 79. You guys stop it.
Does “eaten it” mean you hit “say it”, the page reloads and your comment just isn’t there?
Yes. And then when I hit Say It! again, WordPress tells me I’ve already said it.
Which, I’ve had that happen now and then, to which my response has reflexively become, hit the Back button on the Nav. bar, recover the comment, alter it slightly or grossly, depending, and post it again. Rinse and repeat as necessary until the proper effect is achieved.
Yes, we progs are left bereft. We are sitting in a clogged and offensive airport waiting room, where nothing ever takes off, and everyone’s on the phone.
alter it slightly or grossly
Hence my 66. Which didn’t show up either, until later.
MOM!
It’s a bitch determinism is, no getting around it.
cynn: You’re thinking of No Exit. It’s been done.
But nice image.
#86-87
Me also, same thing.
Steph is at 77 for me. Someone else confirm. I’m not gaslighting you, di.
Reference point comment.
What comment number is this for everyone else?
Reminded me of “Beetlejuice” but I’m prole through and through.
#94
94. What do I win.
#94 for me as well.
dicentra…#75
I know exactly what you mean. When I was in high school, I read a Louis L’Amour novel once.
It had cowboys and shit.
Ok, you guys.
1. Right-click somewhere on the page and select View Page Source.
2. Search for these two numbers: 858812 and 858818.
3. Verify their existence as my posts, versions one and two.
4. Return to this page and refresh.
Yeah?
Looking at view source, I find there is no 858812, just 858811 straight to 858813. dunno
same thing with 858817 straight to 858819, no 858818 is there.
HA!
I’m seeing the right page view and you’re not. Neener neener.
What’s the HTML code when you want the HTML reader to ignore the tags?
I’m assuming it’s html related because otherwise we’re all traveling at extreme speeds relative to di.
Sounds like it’s a local condition, kinda like you can have a swamp cooler thingy and I can’t.
You do have powers far beyond those of other mortals. Your own private internet.
So if there were no brownies and pie was naught but a distant memory, what would it be, that shining thing on the hill?
Pudding? Is it pudding I see?
It is sad commentary on the state of academia that philosophy professor Surber is not only capable of producing such a blatantly self serving and decidedly uncritical assessment, but is also willing to put it out for public review. One would think such an act to be an academic suicide.
The entire effort is weak. He does not even define his terms. You would think a man who calls himself a Doctor of Philosophy would recognize that the liberal in Liberal Arts might not carry remotely the same meaning as implied in it’s common American political connotations, and thus require some sort of clarification. No, he just skips right past that conundrum getting on to what he really wants to do – throw his great moral weight behind Obama and lash out at some current personalities. This is his notion of progress in the sweep of history?
Sad.
I am starting to wonder how many of my posts I can see and nobody else can.
Why are you looking at me like that?
I used to say that the proof of God’s existence is that no godless universe would contain chocolate pudding, but now there is Ace’s joke, and I really can’t bring myself to do it anymore.
Unfortunately ours is over 7 ft. tall and is currently at the only unobstructed south window. I want to put him outside in the summer but fear he will grow more and won’t fit back inside.
I just found the tag that makes the thing ignore HTML tags. It’s the pre tag, and WordPress doesn’t like it.
Effing commie fascist machine.
I’m with sdferr, those two are missing from the source as well as from the page. True for both Firefox and Safari on my Mac.
One would think such an act to be an academic suicide.
Are you kidding? He’ll be hoisted on the shoulders of his fellows and paraded around campus. He showed them.
All that stuff you mentioned — defining his terms, producing actual arguments — has been deprecated on account of being constructs of the White Patriarchy that were designed to oppress Teh Other.
I AM NOT KIDDING.
That’s their argument. They don’t even WANT to be rigorous anymore, because that means throwing in with The Man.
There you go Darleen. He’s your man.
I’m with sdferr, those two are missing from the source as well as from the page.
I’d accuse Jeff of screwing with us, but I don’t thing he knows how to rig it so that nobody can see two of my comments but me. I don’t think anyone does.
If you had to read all of the old philosophers and then expound on them intelligently, that’s rigor.
“And if the moon hit your eye like a big pizza pie, that’s amore.”
The problem with the Humanities isn’t necessarily the study of any of its disciplines but rather how they are studied and taught — and how easy it has become, as both a student and a teacher, to bullshit your way through them simply by accepting and regurgitating the propaganda of those who have taken over the various departments (nearly all of which come from attached to at least some bit of the New Left).
Clear back in ought-five I composed the following verses:
In the sea you will spy,
The green googly eye
Of the moray…
If it’s slim and it’s sleek
And it nibbles your cheek,
That’s a moray…
When you’re out on the reef,
Some fish gives you some grief.
That’s a moray…
On the ocean, you know,
Something bites your elbow,
That’s a moray…
When you swim in the sea,
Something takes out your knee,
That’s a moray…
It can rise to the bait
And can evicerate
What a moray!
So I sent it to my brother (who had sung verse 5 to me originally) and he sends back:
When a photo’s not clean,
Check for out-of-whack screen,
That’s … a moire!
You should’ve seen the art department when I said, “God bless Donald Rumsfeld.”
All that stuff you mentioned — defining his terms, producing actual arguments — has been deprecated on account of being constructs of the White Patriarchy that were designed to oppress Teh Other.
Well, I’m something of an optimist. At one time phrenology was considered actual science, but in time it was discredited (even though some of the foundational principles were valid if not precisely accurate.) The true sweep of progress and knowledge has involved multiple mis-steps, misadventures, with all sorts of necessary back tracking and corrections.
So long as we don’t find ourselves on a beach standing next to Charlton Heston and one half of Lady Liberty I have faith that today’s academic excesses will one day be held in severe disregard.
That Dr. Surber finds himself reduced to writing 1500 word polemics in an online trade rag communicates more self-truths than he likely finds comfortable much less comforting.
how they are studied and taught — and how easy it has become, as both a student and a teacher, to bullshit your way through them
Bingo. I would be more impressed with my academic credentials if I had broken a sweat once or twice. As it was, I could just spend a few days researching a topic, blather away for 23 pages, and that was enough.
Back in ’75 I beat morays to death with a baseball bat on the deck ’cause I hates the toothy bastards and they wount let go my hook.
Copernicus preserved epicycles. He wasn’t joking.
The true sweep of progress and knowledge has involved multiple mis-steps, misadventures, with all sorts of necessary back tracking and corrections.
You’re assuming a desire to find, you know, the TRVTH at some level. The current crop of clowns are happy with what they’ve created and will alter their dogma only when it becomes fashionable to do so.
So long as we don’t find ourselves on a beach standing next to Charlton Heston and one half of Lady Liberty
In academe, we passed that point long ago. We’ll have to sweep away progressivism and its spawn completely and start over.
<pre> doesn’t make the browser ignore HTML tags. It says that text within the tag is preformatted – spaces and linebreaks are rendered as they appear in the source. (Normally, all whitespace is collapsed to a single space, and text word-wraps as it sees fit.)
To ignore HTML tags, you’d wrap them in an HTML comment pair: <!– stuff –> Content within the comment pair is simply ignored, neither displayed or interpreted.
(Sure wish there was a ‘preview’ button… crosses fingers)
philosophy professor Jere Surber’s “argument” that academics in the Humanities naturally trend “liberal” because their nuanced understanding of the “complexities of history”
Back when I majored in Philosophy, Surber’s analysis of the Humanities would be tantamount to calling the Humanities a Religion. Anything that fled from making sense by essentially claiming a niche beyond making understandable statements and allowing them to be publically and rationally analyzed, or by having some sort of sublime or ethereal way of knowing was in deep doo doo.
Anyone with a real liberal arts education cannot possibly end-up being a “liberal.”
people who talk or write alot tend to be bullshitters
Dicentra, I bow to your demolition of Bob.
..way back, way back and gone!!! Touch ’em all, Dicentra!! You really crushed that Bob outa the park!!!(obligatory baseball metaphor..pitchers and catchers in 10 days..woot!!)
John.
Yeah, but then I wouldn’t be able to cut and paste the missing code/text in this comment section and show it to all and sundry.
Maybe if I try replacing all the angle brackets with their HTML names:
<li id=”comment-858812″>
<p>Comment by <a href=’https://proteinwisdom.com/pub’ rel=’external nofollow’ class=’url’>dicentra</a> on 2/9 @ 7:59 pm <a href=”#comment-858812″ title=””>#</a> </p>
<p>Except that I didn’t.</p>
<p>Because I didn’t learn a damn thing about logical fallacies in school. Not even at Cornell (where there is actual <i>Parthenocissus tricuspidata</i> on the walls. I saw it! And I even know that it’s not actually ivy!)</p>
<p>I produced my comment by consulting <a href=”http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html” rel=”nofollow”>this web site</a>. Knocked it off in just a few minutes. Most of the commentariat here could do the same.</p>
<p>Also, geoffb, my pony-tail palm is languishing in my east window, above the kitchen sink. But it sure hangs on, even after having the dirt kicked out of it several times.</p>
</li>
<li id=”comment-858818″>
<p>Comment by <a href=’https://proteinwisdom.com/pub’ rel=’external nofollow’ class=’url’>dicentra</a> on 2/9 @ 8:03 pm <a href=”#comment-858818″ title=””>#</a> </p>
<p>Dammit! The secret to my success is in that missing comment! Lemme try again:</p>
<p>Except that I didn’t.</p>
<p>Because I didn’t learn a damn thing about logical fallacies in school. Not even at Cornell (where there is actual <i>Parthenocissus tricuspidata</i> on the walls. I saw it! And I even know that it’s not actually ivy!)</p>
<p>I produced my comment by consulting <a href=”http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html” rel=”nofollow”>this web site</a>. Knocked it off in just a few minutes. Most of the commentariat here could do the same.</p>
<p>Also, geoffb, my pony-tail palm is languishing in my east window, above the kitchen sink. But it sure hangs on, even after having the dirt kicked out of it several times.</p>
</li>
That should do it.
Jeff says he had to rescue both versions of the comment from the spam filter (dunno why they were there), lest I be banned for being a habitual spammer. Maybe that’s why.
people who talk or write alot tend to be bullshitters
HEY!
Well, actually… it IS how I got through school.
I speak fluent bullshit.
That sounds a lot like AGW, Peden.
Shocking.
geoffb: people who talk or write alot tend to be bullshitters
It’s still small consolation for having Jeff post so seldom.
But yes, a mind is terrible thing to waste. That’s why I use mine sparingly.
geoffbnewrouter: people who talk or write alot tend to be bullshitters[…] laugh of the week, tacked onto Jeff G's usual adroit pinning of the subject moth to the board of […]
OK. These people must be stopped. They’ve just corrupted Captain America!
h/t Ace and Glenn Beck
You’re assuming a desire to find, you know, the TRVTH at some level.
Sort of. No, not in the middling masses that pass for much of today’s academia. I agree that they are a lost cause, but would further argue that most (even this Surber character) are simply clock punchers, and the fewer still who are the committed ideologues are, at most, building a very weak and unstable edifice.
What I’m assuming (counting on, actually) is the humanity that has, historically speaking, managed to cough up the valued few who are well and truly interested what is essential. A valued few who have, at various times, managed to stand in opposition to forces substantially greater, and more malign than today’s effete academics, and make their ideas not only known, but active upon the larger world.
I mean, we don’t even burn the heretics anymore.
I think I mentioned to Jeff one time that I used to make up fake Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett folk wisdom for papers as a signature move. Never got caught.
Ephedrine. Good times.
sorry all i was aiming at people who think that a crease of ones pants or tingle in a leg are important things.
A long time ago, I was given a handout by a teacher at a JC. I was supposed to go through it as a study guide, answer a few questions and be ready for the next day.
I gave up on the course and the teacher after the first sentence on the handout. It was a compound sentence I tried to reduce so I could figure out what the instructor wanted. I was unable to reduce the sentence to the point of making it coherent.
interested in what is essential…
I’m not offended at all, newrouter.
Because I can speak it fluently I know it when I read it. And there are those who will always hate me for that.
“I mean, we don’t even burn the heretics anymore.”
Which is the thing that gives me pause about the fulminations of a Dennett, a Dawkins or Harris over God-i-ness. That is, who’s to say we (humans, obvs.) won’t start again one day?
I wasn’t upset either, newsy. You’re absolutely right. People whose skill-set involves wordsmithing also have the capability for bullsplat, just as doctors can be quacks and scientists can work at CRU.
sdferr,
I dunno about the God people burning heretics.
I’m not so sure about Progressive Liberals, though. Some of the stuff I see those people spew make me think they aren’t that far from learning how to build a large pyre upon which to burn anti-progs.
sdferr: The proggs are eugenicists at heart, after all. George Bernard Shaw quite gleefully endorsed the use of a “humane gas” to get rid of the undesirables, but then Hitler went and spoiled it all.
Abortion, birth control, and the “death panels” will do the same job, just more slowly.
There’s just such a long long tradition of squishing the unGodly, were I in these guys shoes (and I’m not) I be a little more circumspect about paying out any more rope. Maybe a samizdat program would go over better, maybe a esoteric teaching, whatever/whichever.
Well, if we’re gonna have faith in a humanity that might produce a modern day Aristotle, then we’d also better be vigilant for an occasional Torquemada.
sferr,
It depends on who is defining “unGodly.”
oh watching beck today i find the tweed coat and pipe smoking crowd silly.(update to pc campus circa 2000)
squishing the
unGodlyunfitFTFY.
It was always the same urge — society won’t be right until we get rid of the undesirables, be they heretics or the feeble-minded. The criteria may changes but the urge to purge never goes completely away.
Man that was a typo-grammatically fucked up little paragraph I did right there. So, I’d be, and maybe an
I don’t like that sort of treatment, I must confess. I’m not really into having stuff fixed “for me”. I mean, if it’s bad or wrong, say so. But belittlement is fucked up.
I didn’t mean that, sorry. I should have included “unfit” alongside “unGodly.”
They being conceptually equivalent in that context.
Socrates was unGodly in his fellow Athenian’s eyes. He was extinguished. Likewise, the Christ was seen a heretical sort. Annihilated. Who does these things?
We do.
Abortion, birth control, and the “death panels” will do the same job, just more slowly.
Funny how in the echo chamber, the delusional are fully revealed.
Apostate hunters.
Print ayup, since a simple ayup wouldn’t take, WordPress being a mite fussy tonight.
Funny how you don’t see how funny it is you say this.
Who does these things?
People who don’t like to be challenged.
I don’t believe that the people who did the extinguishing were merely misguided or blinded by their religious or philosophical prejudices.
Isabella brought the Inquisition to Spain right after she and her husband, “the Christian kings,” successfully expelled the Moors from Granada in 1492. Because religious and political identity were practically identical in those days, Isabella wanted the inquisitors to root out her political enemies, who were easily identified as Muslims, Jews, and heretics.
The label “heretic” was not applied in a fit of hysteria, either. Any Spaniard that Isabella saw as a threat got called a heretic — the idea that the person’s “impiety” was a threat to the soul of the nation was a mere pretext to carry out her vendettas.
Likewise, Jesus called out the hypocrisy and moral vacuity of the Jewish leaders of the time. He was Causing Trouble. They couldn’t have that, so they use the Romans to carry out their dirty work (by law, only Romans could carry out capital punishment).
There may be times when people genuinely are blinded by their religio/philosophical biases and rid themselves of someone they truly believe to be a threat, but most of the time it’s cynical destruction of one’s political enemies.
Yeah, I meant to mention the only reason I’m posting tonight is that I’m on the road. Posts from home seem to be getting eaten lately. I wasn’t sure if it as WP or Firefox.
Okay, I’m off to watch Paranormal State and Paranormal Cops.
Then I might summon the Beast and trade him my soul if he agrees to pack me a bowl and make me a really big turkey sandwich.
Bob! You’re back!
the delusional are fully revealed.
Dude, again with the ad hominem. Can’t you, you know, craft an argument? Seriously, how do you justify your snobbery if you can’t even do THAT?
sdferr,
Thank you for #137.
Spent the past hour warming and scraping the car then driving home. We are not up to Wash DC standards but 9 to 12 inches with blowing and drifting. My Sebring threw up a wake of white in the driveway and knocked it’s trail down to undercarriage height. Lots of shovel work on the morrow.
Read how Jonah Goldberg responds to his critics.
As if the Tea Klux Klan isn’t proof enough….
Shit, dude, if that’s all you’re asking for it, we should talk.
Bobby Byrd? Is that you Bob?
Well guys, Bob has me convinced. To hell with you all, I’m outta here!
There you go Darleen. He’s your man.
sdferr
In case you didn’t notice, I haven’t referred to “values” in sometime. I use “principle”.
YOUR influence, sir.
Better specify what the bowl gets packed with. It’d be a real bummer to find that the date he acquires your immortal soul gets bumped up by a heavy dose of paraquat.
Here, let me help you. This is how you refute my argument:
***
Abortion, birth control, and the “death panels” will do the same job, just more slowly.
First, the term “death panels” is a loaded term that Sarah Palin coined to exaggerate the results of having the government offer a public option. No one is going to drag sick people in front of a panel that give the thumbs up or down on someone’s life, nor is there an effort afoot to give better treatment to the “fit” while letting the “unfit” die.
Second, equating eugenics (which is a despicable idea) with abortion and birth control is likewise an exaggeration. Eugenics is the effort to improve the genetic pool by selectively breeding the best specimens and/or preventing the “unfit” from reproducing. Family planning is a method for a woman to take control of her own reproductive system. The concept that some people “ought” to reproduce while others “ought not” is absent from today’s approach to family planning.
***
See? Was that so hard?
As if the Tea Klux Klan isn’t proof enough
Bob, the KKK was a Democrat organization and even Kleagle Robert Bird is still a Congresscritter.
But hey, don’t let facts stand in the way of showing your ignorance.
Goldamn, why do leftcult trolls have to have the IQ of an afterdinner drink?
Why would I have Neiwert tell me how Goldberg responded when I can read the response itself?
Tell me, Bob: do you find yourself tripping into furniture if Neiwert isn’t around to tie your shoes for you?
Let me make this as clear as I possibly can: I’ve dealt with Neiwert before. He’s the intellectual equivalent of a puff pastry: looks plump at first blush, but once you pressure it at all, you’re left with something deflated, flakey, and vaguely French-inspired.
Anyone who read here more than 10 minutes would see that this is not an echo chamber. Then we have Bob, who is, apparently, an idiot. Hi Bob!
Debunked by Neiwert defused by Kascynski
But, guys… Tea Klux Klan!
It’s like I’m being wordsmithed… in my ear!
I mean, what’s the diff?
Neiwert is more apt to accidentally bunk something than deliberately debunk.
another reason I’m annoyed with Bob
my late uncle was Bob. Bobby to my grandparents. An all around good guy and straight talker.
I think hate-filled idiots like the troll “Bob” above should be stripped of that good American name.
I think I’ve been insulted.
Bob. I just looked at what you linked. Here’s some of it:
For one thing, Jonah rejects (and uses evidence to refute) the idea that the KKK is just a bunch of racist rednecks who currently populate the conservative movement, as conventional wisdom on the left insists. Neiwert’s insistence that Jonah “honestly” assess the KKK is really a call for Jonah to wear a hair shirt and flagellate: “Yes! Yes! I admit it! All of us on the right are racists because the KKK is exactly who you think it is! Which also negates the entire thesis of my book!”
But notice what Neiwert does here: “Goldberg’s definition [of fascism], as we’ve explained, describes not fascism — particularly not any of the traits that make it distinct — but rather totalitarianism (or authoritarianism, if you will) generally, of which fascism is but a particular species, and a definitively right-wing one at that).”
Maybe you’ll have to find it for me, Bob (let that be your one contribution to an intellectual discussion), but how does Neiwart define “right wing”? Because right now he’s just objecting to the fact that Jonah is connecting dots that Neiwart does’t think should be connected. Why? Because they shouldn’t.
Ok, your turn.
My real name is David and there have been so many idiot trolls using that name that I wouldn’t want to use it if I did want to use it.
Bob, you ruined my mac and cheese.
Here I was clacking away at the keyboard to pound some sense into your head while my macaroni soaked in the hot water. Now it’s a mushy mess.
I won’t forget it, Bob. That’s just not done.
“As if the Tea Klux Klan isn’t proof enough…”
You do know. do you not, the the KKK was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party?
No,no you don’t.
Bob is like that, dicentra. He’s a hater of all things simple and fulfilling, like mac and cheese.
Also, Bob.
Have you actually read Liberal Fascism? I have. Jeff has. Others here have. However, if you have not, there’s no earthly reason for you to defer to anyone on the planet — including me — when it comes to pronouncing on LF’s “falsehood.”
Seriously. What kind of person declares a book to be false and invalid without having read it and only relies on the opinion of those whom the book is calling out? Would you rely on me to evaluate something that attacked conservatives? Really?
Mac Klux Klan!
Apparently Neiwart doesn’t, either.
“Everything in the state, nothing outside the state.”
-Benito Mussolini
As Jonah Goldberg put it in his white-washing of the KKK, “if the Klan was less racist than we’ve been led to believe, academia was staggeringly more so.”
How does Goldberg account for the continuing presence — from the 1920s up through the present — of definably fascist groups, not just American entities like the Ku Klux Klan, the Christian Identity movement, the Posse Comitatus, the Aryan Nations, the National Alliance, Hammerskin Nation, and White Aryan Resistance (to name just a few), but also European groups like Vlaams Belang and Jean-Marie Le Pen’s National Front, all of whom are clearly right-wing political entities?
Whatchoo talking ’bout, Willis?
No really, this is what passes for logic with Neiwart:
That was whitewash? By whose definition? Whitewash means trying to make out that “they’re not that bad.” What part of “evil joke” constitutes whitewash?
Oh yeah, the “joke” part. The part where he accuses the KKK of engaging in make-believe and being a nostalgic cargo cult.
In other words, Jonah says the current KKK is a farce, not worthy of consideration, whereas Neiwart, true to his leftist credentials, must inflate the KKK’s importance to encompass the soul of conservatism, because he and his peers say so.
It doesn’t matter that 99.999% of today’s conservatives think they’re pathetic losers. It doesn’t matter that any member of the KKK or Aryan Nations who tried to infiltrate a Tea Party would be tossed out on his ear.
CONSERVATIVES ARE RACIST. Q.E.D. With the demonstrandum part coming from its sheer repetition in faculty lounges and coffee shops. Where it matters.
“Pam”
You’re quoting Neiwart verbatum. Use your brain.
Personally, I always found the usual political scale “leftwing” communism at one end and “rightwing” fascism at the other a fool’s game. Both “ends” are authoritarian/totalitarian collectives – where individual rights are ephemeral and exist only at the whim of the collective.
Darleen. You don’t need to qualify that with “personally,” because you’re absolutely right.
Pam, Bob: If we posit a continuum with Anarchy on the far right and Totalitarianism on the far left, how does racism move something farther right?
Goldberg doesn’t even know the meaning of the word. How does he explain the self-evident inadequacy of his definition of fascism? Goldberg’s definition describes not fascism — particularly not any of the traits that make it distinct — but rather totalitarianism (or authoritarianism) generally, of which fascism is but a particular species, and a definitively right-wing one at that.
“Pam” (did you have a quicky sex-change, “Bob”?)
Step away from your plagarism and state, in your own words, why any of those racial-supremacists organizations – collectivists who believe skin color conveys moral worth or talen rather than an individual’s own actions – are different from Leftist racialist organizations? Black Panthers, Mecha, Democrat Party, et al.
Comment by Pam on 2/9 @ 10:42 pm
you’re still plagarizing.
Pam, I’m asking you to either make your own damn arguments or take the sock off your hand and identify yourself as Neiwart.
Goldberg doesn’t even know the meaning of the word.
Goldberg spent one chapter examining Mussolini and his definition of fascism, then spent the next chapter examining Hitler’s take on it, then further chapters examining what the rest of the West thought, including the American Progressives.
When you write a political treatise, you get to define your own terms, especially one as flexible and as loaded as “fascism,” which for many people just means “stuff I hate.”
It’s not supposed to be but this is funny as hell.
Geez, can’t a girl eat her mushy mac and cheese in peace?
bh
Of course it’s funny: both funny ha-ha and funny “I’m laughing so I don’t cry.”
Aryan Nations who tried to infiltrate a Tea Party would be tossed out on his ear.
Go to the Aryan Nations website… you’ll see videos from Fox News, lots of hateful talk about ACORN (sound familiar?), Tea Parties, etc… yea, sounds real left-wing. lol
Darleen,
The Left-Right scale is a 18th-19th Century European concept, one that has little real bearing on modern political ideology and practice.
The Political Compass is a step in the right corrective direction.
For what it’s worth:
In terms even Bob can understand:
Communism = Collectivism
Fascism = Collectivism
Socialism = Collectivism
Collectivism is entirely a product of the modern “Left” (which bears almost no resemblance to its French Revolutionary origin), no matter how much the apologists try to spin it.
Pam, seriously. You’re being tiresome.
I can go to jihadi sites and see anti-Bush rhetoric and promotion of AGW.
NEENER NEENER! LANDED THAT ONE SQUARELY.
I’m outta here. I have job that requires actual mental acuity.
di
If we posit a continuum with Anarchy on the far right and Totalitarianism on the far left
That’s how I’ve always viewed things. But hey, I’ve been told more than once by Leftists I debate with that I’m an ignorant [slut, bitch, teabagger] who obviously didn’t take poli-sci.
and, heh, sometimes I have to quality “anarchy” NOT to mean so-called libertarian-anarchism (Chomsky’s self-identification) aka Anarcho-syndicalism, which is just another anti-individual scheme.
I’m leaning much more funny ha-ha with Pob/Bam.
dicentra,
What the hell do they think this is, Fark?
“Go to the Aryan Nations website… you’ll see videos from Fox News, lots of hateful talk about ACORN (sound familiar?), Tea Parties, etc… yea, sounds real left-wing. lol”
That proves…..what?
And it proves it…..how?
White supremicists are collectivists.
Go to the Aryan Nations website… you’ll see videos from Fox News, lots of hateful talk about ACORN (sound familiar?), Tea Parties, etc… yea, sounds real left-wing. lol
jaysus effin keerist, “Pam”, are you like, 12? I’m sure a copy of the Bible was found in Ted Bundy’s house, does that Judeo-Christianity supports sex-serial murders?
“Pam” scroll down a couple of posts and read about the Green Police. I’m sure you’ll love ’em.
Race is the subtext of now-potent populist appeals to whites, who feel battered from a tsunami of economic and cultural change. The Tea Party counterculture is waging a proxy war over race during America’s rapidly shifting economy and demographic makeup.
We’ve all heard the bar-stool version of the Tea Party canard that goes like this: Why should we, self-sufficient small-town whites, pay taxes to support all those welfare queens, food stamp cheats and Medicaid layabouts in the big cities and coastal states? The media’s version, parroted by Palin and other Fox talking heads, commiserates with Americans in the heartland, christened “the average taxpayer,” for unjustly having to subsidize ethnic enclaves that mooch off the national treasury.
FYI – A disproportionately high share of our federal government’s tax income comes from racially diverse, immigrant-rich, urbanized states, including California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts; not from extremely homogeneous, conservative, anti-tax strongholds like Idaho, Montana, Utah, the Dakotas, Wyoming. Many southern states, the bastion of the conservative Tea Klux Klan, get more from the Fed than they give in taxes.
All of this is not to say that any given rank-and-file member of the movement personally despises racial minorities. Rather, the Tea Party ethos is a direct descendant of the anti-tax segregationist politics that swept the South in the 1950s and ’60s.
More copypasta.
Are you plagiarizing Neiwart again, Pam, or someone else?
I just dropped by the Aryan Nation website. I did see a Fox Business News clip with Gerald Celente predicting revolution. Whatevs. I don’t see how that plays into racism. What struck me more was the “National Socialism – The Aryan Way of Life” banner.
Must be a right-wing socialism.
Out, out, damned sock!
WTF is up with TeaKluxKlan? It that supposed to be clever, or something?
Pam
do you do anything in your own words? Not plargarize? Or is “theft” not a moral problem for a collectivist like you? Your first line from here accompanied by sneering
The rest of your plagarism is here.
The fear of Americans actually acquainted with the Constitution scares the fuck out of you. And you can’t explain it even to yourself.
Fuck off, thief.
Spiny
“Pam” is anti-American. It doesn’t believe in individuals having inherent rights.
Hey Pam?
Unlike the current President of the United States, I am the descendent of slaves.
Go stick that square peg in that round hole between your eyes.
oh god with your slaveyness
make your case, hypocritefeet, or fuck off.
oh she’s on a tear
maybe you’ll want to share some butter tarts with Pam
Yes, thanx for supplying the link. Excellent commentary on the Tea Klux Klan
He is just sore you’re not black, Darleen, so he could call you skeezy ghetto trash.
Comment by Pam on 2/9 @ 11:18 pm
Excellent example of your thievery.
The article itself? Pure projection.
B Moe
He knew at one time I put that out there just to trip Leftcultists up with a little cognitive dissonance.
But hey, he can’t make his case, so what else has he?
They hate America… what party do the secessionists belong to? Rick Perry?
Unlike dem. homebobs, I done roomed with a [real] African American. Didn’t notice it at the time, but…
I repeat my standing offer, homebobs: I’ll trade 1000
of you for 100,000 of “the brown people” any time. Even though I’m not sure the particular ones y’all keep talking about even exist outside of y’all’s Fantasyword.
This is all the arguments of the Left condensed into a handy package. They get to define who or what is “bad”. It is always a political adversary. Then those “bad” are placed as “clearly” on “the Right”. Circular.
This political definitional form of argument for deciding who was on the “right” originated by Stalin. Through it he defined the Left/Right axis of socialism of the time. USSR dominated “international socialism” was the Left. All other socialist systems that did not concede to the complete authority of the Communist Party of USSR were, by definition, his definition, the right wing.
Every system that was not socialist was not even on the scale. The answer to where American conservatives fit on that scale is MU.
They hate America
That’s the Left, Pam dear. As your plagarized quote proves. Constitution rights of individuals – to property, to assembly to petition redress, — those are despised as anachronistic.
Own it, Pam. You are the anti-American.
The Constitution “reflected fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day”* It’s “tainted”, Darleen, don’t you see?
Hey, homebobs, why is that only White [Faux] Liberals simply can’t forget black people are black? But since y’all appaarently know “Black” Culture so well, you’ve heard of Stokley Charmichael, H.Rap Brown, Angela Davis, and Dick Gregory, right? Well, without looking, tell me who Mckinley Morganfield is. Or Chester Burnett? They were giants.
I seem to recall a Michelle Obama that hates America, and a Jeremiah Wright?
Why is it that the “Progressives” always want to freeze themselves back in a time they never existed in, then also claim that certain Arab-like people are “not ready” for freedom? Seems a bit Regressive and self-contradictory, no?
I hate to admit it, having feed it, but the Bob/Pam troll accomplished at least part of his/her objective: derailing the thread.
It would be a cop-out to blame the Maker’s, wouldn’t it?
Liberally “self” contradictory, that is, or is it Progressively affirming?
This is How We Treat Our Friends…
Green Room Arianna Obliteration: “This crisis is the result of a giant social engineering experiment and vote-buying scheme gone tragically wrong; The free market did not pass laws that forced banks to lend to those who do not qualify for a loan, the …
Muddy Waters and Howling Wolf.
[…] Off-Beat Observations Of Jeff G.Posted on | February 9, 2010 | 1 Commentby SmittyThe Onanny State:That progressivism…keeps failing as it runs into the realities of the market…seems never to trouble those […]
Let’s see Liberal Arts academicians do a thing to, say, improve any human’s lifespan or get us closer to Mars. Best they can do is slow us down, as Obama’s done by slashing NASA, with demands for socialistic equivalences.
#194
You forgot the Democrat Party.
It’s a mistake to conflate the Liberal Arts with poor professors of the Liberal Arts, should anyone be tempted to do so.
For that matter, it’s a mistake to suppose the Liberal Arts are confined to the scope of whatever is meant by the Humanities, loosely taken as language arts and pulverized philosophical pursuits, to the exclusion of scientific practices.
Say rather that we begin to define the Liberal Arts classically with the Trivium — nominally Grammar, Rhetoric and Logic — and the Quadrivium — nominally Arithmetic, Geometry, Music and Astronomy. We’d then be in good company with Messrs. Locke, Hume, Smith, Madison, Newton, and Spinoza who would all instantly recognize what our teaching is about. We can then fill in the interstices between these points of outline with more modern subject matters as need and interest demand. But what is key in this description and division of the Liberal Arts is that it doesn’t leave aside our need for mathematical skills, nor does it ignore the heavens and under them, the earth in its orbit.
“FYI – A disproportionately high share of our federal government’s tax income comes from racially diverse, immigrant-rich, urbanized states, including California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts; not from extremely homogeneous, conservative, anti-tax strongholds like Idaho, Montana, Utah, the Dakotas, Wyoming.”
Hey, moron, which states have the larger population density, you fucking moron?
“Comment by Pam on 2/9 @ 11:25 pm #
They hate America… what party do the secessionists belong to?”
The Democrats, in cse you missed that whole Civil War thing.
You helmet wearing, short bus window licking moron.
Laz
and IIRC there’s a Vermont secession movement.
sdferr, are you suggesting that if university education was a closer approximation to the “?????????????” of old, liberal arts majors would be forced to study those subject areas that at present give them headaches, thereby swelling their brains sufficiently to not believe progressive nonsense?
disproportionately? Dig around a bit and see what happens when most of the state isn’t owned by the government.
total per capita federal welfare spending–defined here as childhood nutrition programs, food stamp programs, WIC benefits, and TANF benefits–by state.
“Comment by Darleen on 2/10 @ 7:21 am #
Laz
and IIRC there’s a Vermont secession movement.”
Let me know when there’s 600,000 dead from fighting them.
Something rather like to that SW; also that I happen to love those Liberal Arts and the learning attendant to them and can’t bear to see them derided unjustly.
The politics of the thing as politics (as opposed to the obvious conservative nature of the proposal), meh [*shrugging*], was not so much a consideration since I just don’t know how that would go but am willing to leave it to such results as may come.
Yes, sdferr, I believe we have lost much through increasingly narrow and specialised education; I’m glad I took various humanities electives when I was a science undergrad, and I’m sure a broader based syllabus would help towards the “universal” in “university”.
Secessionists belonged to the Democratic Party, when there were secessionists in numbers worthy of regard.
Rick Perry’s party is a matter of public record.
Robert Byrd was elected to office as a Democrat. David Duke ran initially as a Democrat, although it appears that Democrats and Republicans didn’t care for him:
Dennis Kucinich, one of the craziest people in Congress, is a Democrat.
There are crazies all around. Rick Perry isn’t even in the top ten percentile of crazy. I’m talking about in Congress, even.
News Flash! to Professor Surber, and…
Muddy Waters and Howling Wolf.
No help from the Peanut Gallery, not that the Progg empaths know anything more about “the brown people” from such anyway.
“I am sure I could be a competent scientist if I worked at it, but I don’t want to.”
A professor of Chemistry once explained to me that while he could listen to music or read a novel and enjoy it quite thoroughly, and could even try his hand at playing a piano and writing stories, very few musicians or writers could enjoy or perform a synthetic reaction.
In other words, liberal arts classes are where the hard science majors go to meet easy girls and get laid.
8. Comment by dicentra on 2/9 @ 5:07 pm #
Just wondering about the denizens of this blog: How did any of you manage to major in the Humanities (or similar soft subject) and yet not come to the right conclusions about how the world works?
Besides a mortal dread of the demonsheep, I mean.
First-and-a-half gen Immigrant/refugee stock, only one generation removed from the farm. Which means life’s been a constant sink-or-get-your-arms-flailing lesson in cause and effect. Speaking for myself. Which, looking inward/backward, enabled more success in the art studios, ever to the soreness of the greater enlightened.
Slartibartfast at 256: Wanna drive an OfA foot soldier apeshit? Remind them of coalition affiliate Fred Phelps, registered D-9th Circle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
Hey, moron, which states have the larger population density, you fucking moron?
Who the hell really thinks Patriotism, moral behavior and worth, survival…aw, screw it, Living itself, is comprised of or by paying taxes? Fucking Morons do, that’s who. Oh, you could call them Parasites, or you could call them Progressives, or you could call them Zombies, or….And they done managed to ruin Liberal Arts, to boot.
In other words, liberal arts classes are where the hard science majors go to meet easy girls and get laid.
Dude, everybody knows that’s where you go. Empirical evidence supports the hypothesis that this is the most target-rich environment. Even the jock/poet “scientists” in Physics 001 (they rounded off gravity to 10) could figure that out!
As an example of how screwed up my priorities were in college: upon hearing that there was a big protest against Gillette’s animal testing policies, I went to Old Main to check out the scene. Plenty of crunchy granola types and weepy sorority chicks filled with guilt about their beauty products being sprayed into little bunny rabbits’ eyes.
Did I pick up some easy tail? Of course not. I headed to the Gillette products they were piling up book-burning style and helped myself to a variety of shaving and hair care products. Sure, the hippies got mad, but what were they gonna do about it?
OUTLAW!
We used to follow the Middies as they dropped off their dates Squid, pick ’em up and spend the night on the town. Girls just wanna have fun-un.
Middies?
Anna-no-place, LBascom, poor son’s a guns had a curfew.
Ah, I thought that was a squid term.
strictly OT:
My dog Fuzzy died this morning.
She collapsed when I took her out for a walk this morning. I took her to
the emergency vet, and they found that she had fluid in her abdomen and
chest, her heart was enlarged, and her liver and kidneys were failing.
They weren’t able to do anything for her, and I had to have her put to
sleep.
I have no idea what happened. Her last full physical (complete blood
work, X-ray, etc.) was in December and showed nothing wrong. Yesterday
morning, she was her usual self. I’m not sure if she got bitten by
something, or ate something, or what.
She didn’t seem to be in pain, just really lethargic and wobbly after
the collapse.
She was a good dog.
Dinah in Heaven
Rudyard Kiplng
/”The Woman in His Life”
>From “Limits and Renewals” (1932)/
She did not know that she was dead,
But, when the pang was o’er,
Sat down to wait her Master’s tread
Upon the Golden Floor,
With ears full-cock and anxious eye
Impatiently resigned;
But ignorant that Paradise
Did not admit her kind.
Persons with Haloes, Harps, and Wings
Assembled and reproved;
Or talked to her of Heavenly things,
But Dinah never moved.
There was one step along the Stair
That led to Heaven’s Gate;
And, till she heard it, her affair
Was–she explained–to wait.
And she explained with flattened ear,
Bared lip and milky tooth–
Storming against Ithuriel’s Spear
That only proved her truth!
Sudden–far down the Bridge of Ghosts
That anxious spirits clomb–
She caught that step in all the hosts,
And knew that he had come.
She left them wondering what to do,
But not a doubt had she.
Swifter than her own squeal she flew
Across the Glassy Sea;
Flushing the Cherubs every where,
And skidding as she ran,
She refuged under Peter’s Chair
And waited for her man.
.. . . . . . .
There spoke a Spirit out of the press,
‘Said:–“Have you any here
That saved a fool from drunkenness,
And a coward from his fear?
“That turned a soul from dark to day
When other help was vain;
That snatched it from Wanhope and made
A cur a man again?”
“Enter and look,” said Peter then,
And set The Gate ajar.
“If I know aught of women and men
I trow she is not far.”
“Neither by virtue, speech nor art
Nor hope of grace to win;
But godless innocence of heart
That never heard of sin:
“Neither by beauty nor belief
Nor white example shown.
Something a wanton–more a thief–
But–most of all–mine own.”
“Enter and look,” said Peter then,
“And send you well to speed;
But, for all that I know of women and men
Your riddle is hard to read.”
Then flew Dinah from under the Chair,
Into his arms she flew–
And licked his face from chin to hair
And Peter passed them through!
That sucks SDN.
The Kipling was cool…Thanks.
My sympathies, SDN. Whether sudden or drawn-out, we’re never really ready.
Sorry to hear that, SDN.
Poor puppy! Poor owner!
Sorry, SDN.
The Kipling shows you remember a great friend, and not just this sad day. She happily carried a part of you, and you will always carry a part of her.
Happily.
Thanks, guys. She had a full life, she was about 15 years old. I had her for 12.
Kipling wrote several dog poems. Everyone remembers the one about “giving your heart to a dog to tear”, but I always liked this one better.
Let’s see Liberal Arts academicians do a thing to, say, improve any human’s lifespan
Adam Smith, Professor of Moral Philosophy.
On the other side of the coin, there were plenty of Nazis who were verrrrrrrry scientific.
Very sorry to hear about your dog, SDN.
The eternal Lib refrain. “Of course I’m correct, if you disagree you’re a dummy”
Its like how the Devil just does variations on “ye shall not surely die, ye shall be as gods”
SLAM DUNK. Why DC is broken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyWg_fJPeM
Extremely well documented and researched.
Bob continues in his tradition of #32, #39, and #170, of linking to things that are not as described.
Comment feedback shows a lifetime rating of -173 with seller standing accused of over promising his merchandise while delivering the shoddy on a scale rarely seen in these parts since the unlamented William. -F.
oh, I’m sorry SDN.
I know how you feel SDN, My dog drowned back in November :-(
It’s certainly not comparable to Kipling but I offered this tribute at the time:
Goodbye Scrappy
You brought so much joy to me whenever I walked through the door.
and I’m trying not to cry right now cause I owe you so much more.
I remember you as a puppy, full of life and eager to please.
You certainly loved your cookies and did all your tricks with ease
Thank you for kisses and bringing me such joy
and I know I was so lucky to have you bring your toys
I wasn’t always kind to you and that I do regret.
But you never held it against me, you just seemed to forgive and forget
I know you are happy now and Lady is with you too
Tell her that I miss her and to take care of my Scrappy doo
So since you are in heaven please tell the Lord for me
That I am greatful for the time I had – The time as your Daddy
Sorry about your pet’s death, SDN. I’ve got a mini-pet cemetery going in my backyard; those are always the hardest holes to dig.
Oh, on the relative benefits of engineering science, a nice development from the University of Florida. Better’n a box full of Derrida(s).