Via Stacy McCain, via William Teach, comes Pam Gellar noting that Charles thinks he’s got the goods on Malkin to “take the gloves off” and go to war. I think the bicycle gloves might protect his palms if he wants to start a slap-fight, but what do I know?
Hey, Pam’s not exactly my cup of tea, most of the time, but Charles’s fixation’s a little weird, IMO. He’s the Pope of some weird new orthodoxy that only he and his Lizard Army understand, as far as I can tell, and Extreme Mammalianism has to go.
Stacy suspects that he’s either trying to go the David Brock route, or unwittingly recapitulating the script. I don’t know about that, and I think it might be a bit of an overstatement to claim that he’s threatening Malkin–who’s been threatened in fact more times than I’ve posted, probably. But I do think that Charles has issues. Issues that we’ve been chronicling, that have led to the Great Purgation of 2008-09. Whatever variety of insect it might be that crawled up his ass and took up residence, I hope he gets it exterminated soon, because this has gone beyond amusing and into the realm of the purely bizarre.
Obsession isn’t just a perfume.
Charles using fauxtography? The irony burns! Nice “fake but accurate” defense too.
As a former lizard (ask me about globular clusters………), I have no idea what’s going on anymore. I haven’t actually posted at Charles’ site in well over two years, just due to changing habits.
You know what else is bizzare? This. If there’s a guy on the planet who ought to know better than to assume to categorize someone by virtue of anonymous comments left on their (or an affiliated) website, that guy is Charles Johnson. “…not only tolerates, but encourages!!!”
Bad craziness indeed.
Dude, are you trying to get yourself banned from LGF? ‘Cause it looks like you’re trying.
If not me, who?
certainly not green tea…..
I’ve never, ever comented at LGF, but up until about two years ago I used to drop by there from time to time to read what Charles had to say.
I could never put my finger on it, but I always had the feeling there was something not quite right about him.
“(ask me about globular clusters………)”
Heh. That was epic.
This ain’t the first “mass” disillusionment and purge on LGF, and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
A couple more links to posts at RSM. Guilt by association by Smitty, and Pam Geller: ‘Poster Girl for Eurofascists’ or Just Another ‘Rightwing Extremist’? by RSM.
I don’t think the one what has the footballs what are little and green is worthy of being the subject of a whole post no mores. He has issues definitely but also he’s kind where you’re just supposed to smile when he brings something home and tape it on your fridge but not make comparisons to the other kids.
I have no idea what this is all about. What’s the “fauxtography” in question, who put it up for view, and why?
I tried to reason with Charles as late as a couple of weeks ago, after not posting there for many moons. He seemed quite shocked that anyone would object to neo-nazi’s being “extreme right”. An unreasonable position, and one he was unwilling to argue. For if one did not accept it true, or offered up a list of arguments against the proposition, they were necessarily doing it in blindness or bad faith.
But worse than that was his peevishness. He was so childlike in his reactions it was disturbing. I don’t remember him being like this always.
oh. he’s kind *of* where I meant. Where does he live anyway? Does anyone know? He may even be living on his own and it might be that it’s too much stress.
It isn’t just bizarre, it’s PJM bizarre!
Didn’t Roger L. Simon just get back from Iran? He went with Sean Penn, I think, or some other Pallywood pal. The problem with PJs is there’s no zipper on the fly and, well, sometimes things just sort of slide and slither out, lizzard-like. Things we really don’t want to see.
reason #211 to love Hf.
“you’re just supposed to smile when he brings something home and tape it on your fridge but not make comparisons to the other kids.”
[…] Dan Collins) Category: Blogs & Bloggers, Domestic Disputes, Meltdown? What Meltdown? ♦ […]
The pictures of his bike usually look like they’re in California. San Francisco or nearby, I’d guess. But I’m only matching the color of the air in his pictures to my memory of what color the air around me was when I was a kid.
And I don’t think where he is is he problem.
Nah. Always a bitch. That’s not what’s changed. And he’s been a long time on this winnowing/dissociating trajectory, starting with the Euro-(not-very-)Nazis (and I think everyone there is a Nazi), then Pamela, Robert Spencer, etc.
What’s notable is the sudden shift/acceleration in that trajectory.
Because it’s coincided with an event.
In the news.
Which has revealed who’s whom.
In a mostly disturbing way.
Because it was about that.
t
We are known by our enemies.
WTF are you talking about?
reminds me of the purges at Free Republic circa 98-99 of the libertarian types. What is it about the tubes that drives people insane? Honestly, having spent the last 16 years or so online this kind of mental breakdown is pretty common, be it from forum administrators, to popular blogs. At some point they just implode.
psycho:
Could you decode that for those of us that aren’t up on our internecine blog holy wars?
If I get this right, You are saying CJ has had pictured for him, the horse’s head in his bed, and has recoiled.
It has to be Limbaugh I think. That’s my guess. When the Newsweek ones took orders from our trashy trashy white house peoples and made a cover story framed to spec it was really the end of any pretense I thought. But then psycho has a more better brain and me I can only guess.
I think he is referring to tea parties. As to where Charles lives, he lives in the Huntington Beach area, west Orange County in SoCal. I live just across the county line in Long Beach, and the photographs of his bike rides are often places just a few miles south of here along PCH.
David
tea parties haven’t been in the news though
Because it’s coincided with an event.
In the news.
Which has revealed who’s whom.
In a mostly disturbing way.
Because it was about that.
———–
prop8/gay marriage? Rush Limbaugh? The election of O? Priates? Bed-bug resurgence? Which that or thats are you alluding to, exactly?
The bed-bug resurgence terrifies me. Something has to be done.
I’d vote for the election of O, but I’m often wrong that way, so….
Nighty-night, don’t let the bedbugs bite!
SOLVED!
Priates? Is that the new green form of pilates – where we all push around our Prius when the gasoline runs dry…
I love that part of California, the twee Orange County bits. It’s very America there the way it looks and feels and you almost think you’re not in California anymores but then you chance on something what is stridently Asian in that stridently Asian way and you remember where you are.
The world is going to Hell in a hand basket and half the posts at LGF are anti Creationist. Make a list of the top 20 threats to the United States and its citizens right now and Creationism is not one of them (it’s also not in the top 1000). Charles Johnson indulges this monomania at the expense of his readers going elsewhere, like I have.
Please Lord don’t tell it’s all about Meghan McCain.
I think Charles completely nailed Geller, who is just plain crazy with a big rack, and Spencer, who is way smart and should have known better. Both of them, especially Geller, have been more than willing to associate with some ugly elements of Euro-rightist parties to do battle against Islamism.
The Euro rightists ARENT nazi’s, but they are way too close to that weird racialism that is peculiar to Europeans.
we can this fight without them.
And he is doing the lord’s work in highliting the depths that Fox is sinking to.
Charles has uniformly condemned Islam, not just the extremist fringe, since the beginning. Which is why I stopped reading him years ago. It’s a short trip from a general anti-Moslem position to an anti-Darwin questioning yahoo one. Now he finds himself hemmed in with evil religionists on one side and evil Euro-nativists on the other. A position of his own devising.
Fox News is a cable network what sometimes people not me watch. Sometimes it’s on YouTube and you can click and see what it’s all about but usually it’s just clips of cable news stuff.
i should say that his warnings on creationism, which poses about as much threat to America as farting, are growing tiresome.
If he really wanted to make a change for the good, he would take on the popularity of paranormal stuff on TV, like “Ghost Hunters” and “UFO Hunters”…that stuff is mainstream and is 7th century hooey.
Instead, he finds someone on an obscure schoolboard somewhere and launches frontal assaults.
Its his blog though. I’ve rowed through more than my fair share of English dept. theatrics here that might get all of 5 people excited…bloggers go off on tangents, what can you say?
“Flip This House”
About the best you can hope for is that Charles Johnson, David Brock, Meghan McCain, et al. have a “Colonel Nicholson” moment
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/71/039_68961.jpg
and the ability to make it to the detonator.
Yes. Charles somehow thinks that Geller is consorting with neo-Nazis.
Fucking genius, that Charles.
#34 I don’t have any problem with someone declaiming Gellar a bit of a fruitcake because of course she is. That doesn’t turn CJ into a non-fruitcake, or make his hyperventilating any more reasonable.
I don’t think Charles Johnson will need to say anything about R.S. McCain or Michelle Malkin. All he has to do is say he has stuff and his pack of jackals will run with it.
The comment that Johnson made shows that this is all about him. He only threatened because Michelle allowed criticism of him on her site. He cooled down a bit when he learned it was in an automatically generated list of links.
I have spent a grand total of approx 15 minutes on that site in my entire life, and that was plenty for me. Get help, Charles.
I find it creepy that Charles Johnson claims he is collecting info on people for attacks in case they publicly criticize him.
Charles is also a global warming pansy, which is kind of surreal. That’s drawing a distinction between your jihadists what is way arbitrary I think.
What’s notable is the sudden shift/acceleration in that trajectory.
Because it’s coincided with an event.
In the news.
Which has revealed who’s whom.
In a mostly disturbing way.
Because it was about that.
Did Pajama’s Media ditch him? I seem to recall he was in the decision making hierarchy early on. Is he just being passive aggressive over getting iced at PJTV?
“The comment that Johnson made shows that this is all about him. He only threatened because Michelle allowed criticism of him on her site. He cooled down a bit when he learned it was in an automatically generated list of links.”
That absolutely correct; His reaction – this weird and twisted and dopey sensitivity. Wtf.
Slart, not consorting in the “Lets go to the compound in Idaho” sort of way, no. Nor is she decorating her site with Aryan runes.
But she is more than ready to support their work and statements, yes.
Look, this blogging stuff is a bit like being a politician. One of the cheapest political tricks has long been to produce the photo of your opponent shaking a hand of some guy at a rubber chicken event in an endless photoline and then, when the mope is nailed for mortgage fraud, or trying to bribe a judge or something like that, declaim your opponent as corrupted by nefarious donors.
A Gellar or even a Spencer, who are one-trick pony’s issue wise, can get support or say a kind word about an erstwhile ally while not having the full picture as to the scope of their beliefs. It could happen to any of us.
Those Euro-rightists are a distasteful lot who bump up against the line of decency on occasion; I havent found a lot of Buckley’s or Milton Friedman’s over there. Some of them are happy to cross over the line from Buchananism into that nether region where ultra-nationalism meets what looks like neo-naziism.
And Charles is right to call BS. Geller and especially Spencer should know better. Seen in the daylight, what looked like allies are people you should avoid.
As far as him personally, I have long had little use for that ultra-nationalist Likud bunch he calls his commenters. He ran a pro-Iraq agit-prop site long after it became clear that something was terribly amiss with Iraq and to a lesser extent Afghanistan. So Charles might be careful when he starts fixing nooses on his petard.
Cite, please.
I used to read him – but took him off my list a few months back. I even sent him an email asking why he is going so insane about intelligent design versus evolution. Of course no answer. He has got to be losing readership.
LGF is down 25% in the last 3 months according to Alexis
So… what happens exactly if a muslim gets swine flu?
He’s vaccinated and then stoned.
I denounce myself.
Leave the denunciations up to me …
Charles banned me for using the term ‘feminazi.’ His entourage of female supremacists didn’t like it. Well, good.
“So Charles might be careful when he starts fixing nooses on his petard.”
I know what you meant, but that metaphor is so badly mangled it needs to be put down. A petard is plenty dangerous without any rope. =)
Charles is going all “guilt by [the thinnest thread of] association.” I mean if they are speaking at a conference where a member of a European political party which may have neo-Nazi members is going to show up (not Neo-Nazis show up, but ANY member of that party), then Geller and Spencer are Neo-Nazi.
QED. Or basic informal logical fallacy of guilt by association. Take your pick, Charles picks QED.
I would be more concerned if Geller or Spencer actually, you know, met with Neo-Nazi than I would be with a 5, 6, or more level of association: friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of either Geller or Spencer.
Heck, at that range, they may not even know the other exists if Charles doesn’t harp on it. You cannot control friendships at that range, and Charles is crazy if he thinks that there is a way to do it.
BUT HE SAW AN ODIN’S CROSS ON A BOOK IN THE BACKGROUND OF A PICTURE OF SOME GUY!!1!!!111!
What more evidence do you need? HOW MUCH FURTHER ARE YOU WILLING TO GO TOWARD OVENS AND NAZIS!!!111!!1!!!1
well yeah, if it was five or six times, it’s totally human. It has likely happened to us all, in some form or another.
Except its not, and they know it.
This is going to need some unpacking, I think.
Fuck Charles Johnson.
The man is a fraud and a lunatic. He has half the credibility of Dan Rather, with all of the same shoddy, knowingly dishonest standards.
I’m watching as my nation is about to be raped in the name of a phony New Age religion called “global warming”. Our electricity rates are about to triple. Our manufacturing sector is about to be eviscerated. Does this bother Chuckie one damned bit? No. Charles is busy shrieking hysterically about some obscure creationist on a school board in small town Texas.
Let’s stop talking about this dishonest piece of shit and his crappy little website. Fuck Charles Johnson, and fuck each and every one of his creepy little cultists.
Slart,
The Pro-Koln conference. Please tell me how a reasonable person could not have come across enough secondary sources in search engines (within say 15 minutes or so) that the leaders of this conference were at the very least from anti-democratic backgrounds and had at least crossed paths with neo-nazis (not making them Bormann’s or Himmlers, but still, a proximity they should not have). It wasnt hard for me.
Slart, Geller was a promoted speaker of this event. Is it not reasonable that she spent 15 minutes figuring out who was asking her to get on a plane and sing the walking anti-Islamism blues?
I get her beef with Islamism, I suspect everyone here does. But linking to the likes of the British national party, when anyone can see its totalitarian impulses, is plain wrong.
let me ask: where am i wrong with her or Spencer (who has written some interesting things)? Is your argument that they are essentially Jeff and Dan, just a couple of souls caring about the decline of the west and willing to yell about it, who are being unfairly tarred by a jazz-guitarist computer squid?
I see what you did there. Did you know that we have a president who’s about 2 degrees of separation from Louis Farrakhan?
1 degree from Reverend Hatey, but that is alright.
Over on Ace of Spades some lizard goons got upset that the posters were criticizing Charles. They started demanding that ‘Ace clean up his act’ and talking about death threats that were made. No one could actually find these threats but Ace of Spades was removed from the glorious roll-call of blogs at LGF.
Later they started slinging the racist, xenophobic charge so beloved of leftists. Then a poster by the name of Afrocity posted a racist comment and the LGF crowd jumped on that. Turned out Afrocity was a long-time LGF poster. They got called on it and then claimed that it wasn’t Afrocity and somebody must have hijacked her name and linked to her website.
LGF poster Irish Rose is now making an enemies list, and Ace of Spades is on it, so beware lest you too be made an enemy of the Green Football!!
p.s. I kinda like Pamela Geller even if she can be a little excitable. She goes after stories that too many so-called respectable folks won’t.
An oddity on Neo-Nazis in Canada, h/t SDA, from Ezra Levant’s copy:
Twisted web woven.
Zaphod, we’re in trouble to be certain. Sky-rocketing deficits, a “real” economy that is shrinking as access-to-leverage dries up, and a political party in power whose first instinct is to spend and then tax. My advice: dont worry about the AGW stuff too much. Its all pretty much posturing. When CEOs tell Emmanuel and Obama that their plans are likely to wipe out another 10k decent paying jobs, well, look for the rider and loophole filled legislation to pass. Not that it should have ever been floated in the first place.
So go ahead and worry. Obama is making Bush look like Abraham Lincoln. Just dont worry too much about Global Warming and what politicians noble plans are going to do to our economy is what Id say.
Question.
Is there a political party, in Europe, that is for fighting Islamic terrorists, fighting, not buying off or redefining them as “good men” that can’t in someway be tied to a Neo-Nazi of some stripe? If there isn’t then should we just write Europe off as an ally?
I’m not feeling that. Me I worry. Global Warming is a Lie and I don’t think it will spawn innocuous legislations. Harry says oil and coal make us sick and our trashy president and his skeezey woman can’t let a crisis go to waste.
Western Europe needs a time out.
Pablo, I did nothing.
The problem is that Geller and Spencer did nothing as well.
Those Pro-Koln guys were none too savory and that could have been discovered pretty easily.
I will take your criticism though and renounce my use of the phrase “crossing paths.”
I should have said, “An organizer of the conference happily stood next to a fucker who looks like he would have a veritable blast at Babi-Yar and spent his formative years playing ‘If only?’ about Kursk.”
We cool now Pablo?
By the by, Im a lot more troubled with O!’s associations with Bernadine and Bill than i was at Farakhan…hate speech is one thing, plotting and trying out homicide, well thats another.
Kind of like link-sharing with unsavory sorts who are 4000 miles away and then getting on a plane and preaching to their choir.
And yet I would bet good money you have no problem associating with Democrats.
Pablo, I just reread my post.
I apologize for the snotty tone.
that wasnt right of me.
That’s how we know you’re a member of the Fourth Estate: utterly incurious and completely oblivious.
Is it true that O met with someone in Mexico who dropped dead of flu the next day? I heard some buzz about that.
mcgruder. Who’s definition and proofs are you using regarding who is a Nazi, or neo-Nazi?
Charles Johnson’s definitions are not exactly, well… sane!
Of cours, no, it is not true.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-host-died-from-swine-flu-story-apparently-fake.html
Rob, I dont take your point. They are not the same.
McGruder, Obama & Co. don’t care about harming our economy, or our nation. Harming the US is part of their plan. That’s why they’re releasing classified information that is only useful to America’s enemies. That’s why they’re releasing photographs which will be used to recruit for al-Qaeda. That’s why they’re freeing known al-Qaeda members, while trying to imprison the men who captured, detained and interrogated them. That’s why they negotiated a SOF agreement with Iraq which completely ties our soldiers hands. That’s why they’re scrapping our national missile defense even as North Korea, Iran and Pakistan ratchet things up. That’s why Obama & Co. deliberately offend/alienate our allies, while sucking the balls of our enemies. These people genuinely hate America. I thought the rantings of Rev. Wright and the murderous marxist lunacy of Bill Ayers made that quite obvious long, long ago. Best not bring it up at LGF, however, lest you be branded as a racist or a “neo-nazi”.
Fuck Charles Johnson, and fuck each and every one of his goddamned lunatic cultists.
Charles is showing his true colors. His fixation on “stealth creationism” (not that I believe in creationism, but, time to MoveOn, Chuck,) his assaults on Gellar and others, and fixation on Fox News, have turned him into virtually a 3 trick pony.
Interesting to notice that the part of his header graphic that featured Muslims is now gone since Obama took office. He barely discusses Islamic terrorism anymore. He has a right to do whatever he wants on his blog, but, I, and others, have the right to “change the channel.”
PS: after he made the comment, Charles didn’t really cool down. I went looking for the original comment when I saw the capture over at Atlas Shrugs, and he was still somewhat seething afterwards, and in other threads.
WTF? Really, WTF? If you’re against Islamicization, you’re a Nazi?
You’re not making any sense, mcgruder.
Really?!
Anyone can see the totalitarian impulses in the Democrat party. Hell, they brag about them!
They’re also a party of racists, dedicated to protecting a system that has the government favoring people based on their perceived race, and often expressing ideas that amount to the racially-based inferiority of others.
Then there’s the historical ties between the Democrats and the Klan. The Klan was used as the Democrats’ “militant wing”; when Republicans won elections, it was the Klan that, um, “got out the veto” in the form of race riots.
I’m not defending the BNP — far from it! I’m pointing out that many who take the line you’re taking are unwilling to apply it domestically.
Rob, I see the threats to the US economy coming from a thousand different directions, not the least of which is the creeping socialization now taking place, although I remain concerned mightily about inflation with the Fed injection of hundreds of billions of dollars into the system. Both sides of the same coin frankly.
what i dont think you need to worry about it, in a hierarchy of bad things, is the political posturing from the center-left on remaking our economy due to AGW. There are many more material issues that will screw us first. I am not making a brief for AGW, but i suspect that doesnt matter to you.
Rob Crawford, watching that ball sail out of the park.
Nice hit.
“Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.”
Who said that?
Democratic Senator Robert Byrd
The Democrats are the party of slavery, segregation, etc. Will they be held to same standards that the BNP are held?
Anyone can see the totalitarian impulses in the Democrat party. Hell, they brag about them!
mcgruder:
AGW is an excuse for all the things they want to do. It’s part and parcel with the Great Bank Robbery known as TARP. The Obamatons are piling it all on top with the goal of watching or society collapse — so they get to remake it as they wish.
But, hell, it makes me feel much better to know you think the rest of their schemes will pay off before their AGW power-grab.
Rob, Your concern over the totalitarian impulses of the left is spot on.
The analogy between the BNP and the Dems is wrong. I see a material difference between the BNP and the Dems in respect to goals, and that means something. that doesnt imply however, that the anti-constitutional impulses of too many on the left should be ignored.
Let’s not get TOO caught up in hooray-for-our-side, Travis and Rob. We’ve had our share of racists.
well i do think the rest of their schemes, which are essentially chapters from the Hank Paulson playbook without any guardrails attached, will definitely hurt us before AGW.
could be wrong.
Democrats just can’t stop supporting Planned Parenthood, can they?
Every year we send hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to an organization founded by a racist socialist (Margaret Sanger) for the express purpose of exterminating black babies.
Who’s Planned Parenthood’s highest-ranked political candidate?
Barack Obama!
Shall we hold the Democrat Party to the same standard, McGruder?
Travis & Rob, you absolutely fucking rock.
once they taste the shoving of the things into the budget bills what are filibuster proof we will have a dirty socialist fiesta except me I will not be invited and probably not you neither cause this dance ain’t for everybody just the dirty socialist peoples
jerome bring me my hat
Let’s not get TOO caught up in hooray-for-our-side, Travis and Rob. We’ve had our share of racists.
I fully agree. I think the point is that if we are going to judge the Europeans by a particular standard then perhaps we should be measuring our own by that same standard. If we cannot do that, then perhaps our definition is wrong, or we need to rethink the direction we are headed.
In all likelihood it will be a combination of both.
What I find annoying is calling people Nazis, or neo-Nazis without any real idea what is meant by that.
Why?
It’s nice that you “see” that.
What a shame it’s a mirage.
Never said any different.
But in the US of today, one party is arguing for a government focused on race, the other at least pays lip service to a color-blind government.
Slart,
of course you can be anti-Islamism without venturing into a racial swamp. I think the majority of posters here do it rather nicely.
I would not have signed up to speak at that conference and I believe most posters here would not have done so either. There is a lot of pause for concern with that set, even if you only googled them for a few minutes.
This doesnt make Charles a great guy, or a good blogger, nor does it diminish Spencer’s good writing or make Geller a bad person, since she’s probably allright if you get to know her.
But it does make them thoughtless opportunists at absolute best.
Obama is making Bush look like Abraham Lincoln.
History will do that.
By “hurt us before AGW” do you mean “hurt us before the crap policies being pushed by the AGW myth”? Or do you mean “hurt us before the ice caps melt, the seas flood the world, and a guy with gills sails around the world drinking his own urine and fighting off thugs on Ski-doos”?
Because one of those scenarios ain’t never gonna happen.
mcgruder, I’m no fan of Pam Geller’s. I just think Johnson is committing an error, here. And he’s apparently dragged you along for the ride, if only for a short distance.
Johnson’s traveling in Neiwert territory, of late. It’s a special kind of crazy.
mcgruder: As one guy who has posted often on matters Islamic and Jihadist, I must tell you that, if given an opportunity, I would have addressed that council.
The organizations themselves are clearly not, in toto, radical, racist or Neo-Nazi. There are elements of said organizations that wander into that territory but one only needs to look at the fringes of both the right and the left on our own country to find plenty of of wacky bugs under the rocks.
That having been said: What other organizations with any kind of national pull are doing anything to stem the tide of open immigration, sharia accommodation and the creeping Islamization of Europe? Who else is even bothering to raise a few questions? If the stated and clear purpose of those organizations was across the board white supremacist and xenophobic nationalism then, yea, both you and Charles have a case. I would put forth that elements of a movement do not, necessarily, define a movement. There is common cause here and the idea of some kind of lizoid test of political purity strikes me as both wrong headed and ego-maniacal(on Charles’s part, not yours.)
Right now, these major organizations are all we have in Europe to face up to this situation. It seems to me that blowing them away because they don’t meet the political purity test would be akin to dismissing the Republican party because of some of Buchanan’s or Paul’s more, ahem, racially insensitive supporters. I just think that Charles is applying a standard that is too narrowly defined and too reminiscent of his screechy admonitions to plain talking conservatives to watch their tone and language. That is the sort of attitude that has gotten us to where we are today, false collegiality and all.
Thank you, but no.
Travis,
I think we all know what a Nazi is.
To get to the meat of your concern, I argue it is clear that each one of these ultra-nationalist parties in Western europe has a certain constituency (most likely a majority) that is comfortable advocating some version of the racial and economic policies central to German National Socialism, or what we call nazism.
Where the analogy frays is in the application of those policies.
Hitler wrote a book talking about settling accounts with various undesirables; he did a fairly thorough job. Jean Marie Le Pen isnt too fond of The Gayz, but isnt for turning them into soap. That is a big difference that idiots in the media or blogs appreciate.
Charles went overboard in describing them as neo-nazi, although that Axel dude who runs with the fellow organized the Pro-Koln conference clearly gives off an air that he could put people on trains “To the East.”
geller and spenser ran off the rails answering the emails from this lot, let alone agreeing to speak to them.
Slart, i take your point.
I disagree, but ive been wrong before Lord knows.
BJT-Free, an interesting observation.
There is no “natural” right in European political thought; Libertarianism or classic conservatism are American inventions.
Ill be a hypocrite: I cant see where you are wrong, but i cant sign off on those sorts either. Just too distasteful. Europe does have some nice museums and beaches though, especially Greece.
Away from that, we should just sell it to the Chinese.
pastries, too
Geez, don’t tempt me…
Exactly right. And Charles is demanding some sort of purity from any and all who oppose jihad. When Charles, LGF’s Charles, is cherrypicking user comments from blogs to condemn the people who run them, it’s clear he’s gone round the bend. Pot, meet kettle.
Whence my #68. Do we simply write off all of Europe because any allies we find might not be the perfect ones?
Travis,
I think we all know what a Nazi is.
No actually we don’t. Charles Johnson certainly doesn’t. He posted a fake photograph of his ‘fascists’ shaking hands in front of a Antifa (so-called anti-fascists) demonstration. The Antifa hate those two men and go around dressed in black beating their supporters in street fights.
He doesn’t seem to even know who the Antifa are. He was kinda right in that if you wish to find fascists in Europe the Antifa, and allied anti-fascists groups are your best bet.
Posters have tried to explain to Charles Johnson that the NSDAP were left-wing socialists and he seems to find the idea both shocking and absurd. He is either profoundly ignorant of fascism, Nazism, or being disingenuous.
The Socialist Party in the Netherlands were the ones marching with Hamas shouting “Hamas, Hamas, send the Jews to the gas.”
Vlaams Belang the so-called fascists has defended both Jews and Israel.
So you tell me who the fascists are?
“Let’s not get TOO caught up in hooray-for-our-side, Travis and Rob. We’ve had our share of racists.”
I disagree completely. For as long as I’ve been alive Republicans have been wrongly defined as the party of racists and the party of the Klan. Our schools no longer teach history, so they’re no longer obliged to acknowledge the inconvenient facts that a) the GOP was founded by Abolitionists for the express purpose of ending slavery, b) Democrats fought not just to preserve slavery, but to expand it into the Western Territories, and c) the Ku Klux Klan was founded exclusively by Democrats. Survey black America and you’ll see how effective the Democrat’s revisionist propaganda campaign has been. Black America believes that Republicans were the slave owners, and that it was Democrats who fought for their freedom. I’m tired of paying for the sins of Democrats, and I’m sick of being portrayed as evil/heartless/puritanical/anti-woman for opposing Planned Parenthood, an organization founded by an open racist for the express purpose of exterminating black America. Our party has a proud history. It’s time we started slapping some people with it.
Charles is a confusing polyglot of gritted teeth opinions and mincing outrage.
What, exactly does he stand for and what is he trying to accomplish with this direction he has taken? Seriously, he rails about the loony end of Creationism and, in the process, demonstrates a sneering derision of people of faith. Charles uncritically swallows AGW whole while mocking those who have differing faith beliefs as unscientific and, well, idiotarian. He ‘s outspoken whenever someone like Limbaugh gets pointedly critical or Coulter brings the snark and yet is more than content to ban anyone who doesn’t chant the lizoid mantra. His commentators are … well … boring in their one note recital of one hand clapping. When was the last anyone saw either post or commentary that was in the least bit thought provoking, in depth and multi point critical in its thinking?
All of the above for … what, exactly? Where does he stand and what does he hope to accomplish. Other than his Likud like support of Israel (said attitude poses no problem with me) I’m having a tough time trying to figure the guy out. He seems to be living in the moment to shine the political decor spotlight on those whose positions and utterings do not meet the lizard style court test. Other than that I see alot of smoke and virtually no fire.
YMMV
So, when Nixon’s Southern Strategy swept up southern Democrats, did they have some kind of anti-Klan filter?
Pretty much agree with the rest of your comment, except to the extent that it ignores the reality of frustrated racist Democrats becoming part of the GOP.
Richard Nixon wasn’t alive in 1865.
I wasn’t claiming that the GOP is perfect. I was saying that at some point, somehow, Democrats should be forced to answer for THEIR party’s history. The GOP’s founding was entirely noble. Stopping slavery, in my mind at least, is a way better answer than expanding slavery.
Will the Democrat Party ever have to answer for opposing every single piece of anti-lynching legislation the Republicans brought to Congress?
Will Democrats ever have to answer for founding the KKK?
Will Democrats ever apologize for the thousands of blacks that they lynched?
Will Dems apologize for lynching around 1,300 white Republicans who dared to teach in black schools, practice medicine in black communities, register black voters, etc.?
Will the Democrat Party ever answer for Andrew Jackson ignoring the Supreme Court’s ruling, and marching American Indians off on the Trail of Tears?
Didn’t Hillary Clinton just accept some sort of “Margaret Sanger Award”? Do you think black America really knows who Sanger was, and why Planned Parenthood was founded?
If you’re going to hold the GOP to such lofty standards, apply the same to the Dems.
Pam Geller can be nutty and over the top at times. Okay. But so what? For a middle age gal she looks good in a bathing suit. Seriously, if you disagree with her then call her on that legitimately.
If you listen or read Charles Johnson/Little Green Footballs you would think Pam Geller was a Jewish Joseph Goebbels calling for the final solution and extermination of the Muslim Threat. It is so over the top, so mindblowingly crazy, that you have to conclude Charles Johnson is completely and utterly insane.
Then Charles Johnson switches to his Glenn Beck and Rush jihad, then back to his self rightous Inherit The Wind mode and attack on Creationists, and then those “evil” people (in fact sad confused people with austic children) who had made some connection in their own minds with vaccines and their child’s condition. Oh, and banning anyone who in the least way disagrees with him.
The sad part is I agree with Johnson on a lot of these points (evolution, vaccines being good, etc.) but he is bully beyond bullies, which makes me think he has to be one of the most insecure bloggers out there.
In response to this:
blockquote<When was the last anyone saw either post or commentary that was in the least bit thought provoking, in depth and multi point critical in its thinking?
He got some real challenge in the Nazi thread. His killer intellect stopped at “I can’t argue with people who don’t accept the obvious, that being any conclusion or presumption I have come to myself, since I am incapable of being wrong in my conclusions or premsumptions”
See also:
“Posters have tried to explain to Charles Johnson that the NSDAP were left-wing socialists and he seems to find the idea both shocking and absurd. He is either profoundly ignorant of fascism, Nazism, or being disingenuous.”
Nazi’s are right wing extremists because Charles says so, and if you can’t accept that he can’t discuss anything with you.
Oh, messed up my block quote.
Whatever happened to “It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”?
That one went away along with judging people based on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin, I guess.
By the way, many of those same Southern Democrats were apalled at the openly pro-Communist, violently anti-American direction the youth of their party were taking.
Comment by SarahW
Nazi’s are right wing extremists because Charles says so, and if you can’t accept that he can’t discuss anything with you.
He seems to think that he can bully or threaten other bloggers to enforce that same Modus operandi with regards to his pronouncements.
Comment by SBP on 4/27 @ 3:36 pm #
Whatever happened to “It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.�
That works up until the point that they break your legs (Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda) or pick your pocket.
I’d settle for everyone just cutting the finger-pointing the fuck OUT. It’s one thing to “acknowledge the history”; it’s quite another to take some conveniently slanted version of history and use it as a bludgeon against the other guys.
Posters have tried to explain to Charles Johnson that the NSDAP were left-wing socialists and he seems to find the idea both shocking and absurd. He is either profoundly ignorant of fascism, Nazism, or being disingenuous.â€
I actually agree with Charles on this. Nazis weren’t about socialism because the party name contains “Socialistische”, any more than they were about German workers because the party name contained “Deutsche Arbeiter”.
The whole name was a scam.
Comment by Zaphod on 4/27 @ 3:04 pm #
BRA-VO!
“What I find annoying is calling people Nazis, or neo-Nazis without any real idea what is meant by that.”
And reactionary leftists really hate it because we DO know what it means.
I actually agree with Charles on this. Nazis weren’t about socialism because the party name contains “Socialistischeâ€, any more than they were about German workers because the party name contained “Deutsche Arbeiterâ€.
The whole name was a scam.
The socialists in general are running a scam. It’s a utopian theory that can never exist as it subscribes to a false view of human nature.
The Nazi’s believed in state control (not ownership) of industry, the unitary state, and pretty much everything the Bolsheviks did so how are they NOT socialist?
“Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/27 @ 3:15 pm #
the Ku Klux Klan was founded exclusively by Democrats
So, when Nixon’s Southern Strategy swept up southern Democrats, did they have some kind of anti-Klan filter?”
So one political campaign outweighs 250 years of Democrat history?
“Slavery was a specifically an institution of the Democratic Party.
Eugene “Bull” O’Connor (the poster boy of American racism) was a Democrat.
The poll tax was a Democratic institution.
Jim Crow laws were instituted by Democrats
Democrat Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black was a KKK member.
It was Democrats like Lester Maddox, Orval Faubus and George Wallace — governors of Georgia, Arkansas and Alabama — “who blocked the schoolhouse doors,
While Governor of South Carolina, Democrat Sen. Ernest Hollings oversaw the raising of the Confederate flag over the Statehouse on April 11, 1961, the anniversary of the firing on Fort Sumter.
The Democrats also filibustered 83 days against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Albert Gore Sr and former Robert Byrd were two of the Democrats who opposed the bill.
Ex-Klansman Sen. Byrd filibustered for more than 14 hours and 13 minutes straight.
William Fulbright voted against both the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act. He did so because he believed in separating the races — in schools and other public places. He was a segregationist, heart and soul.
In 1985, as governor, Bill Clinton, the First Black President, signed a law making the birthdates of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert E. Lee state holidays on the same day.
Which is the party of racists?”
Socialism has more than one component. The other major component of socialism is redistribution of wealth; egalitarianism. Hitler never (as far as I’m aware) intended anything at all in that direction; his objectives were pretty much control of government and elimination of undesirables.
Oh, and expansion.
“I actually agree with Charles on this. Nazis weren’t about socialism because the party name contains “Socialistischeâ€, any more than they were about German workers because the party name contained “Deutsche Arbeiterâ€.
The whole name was a scam.”
“The Nazis did not, as their foreign admirers contend, enforce price control within a market economy. With them price control was only one device within the frame of an all-around system of central planning. In the Nazi economy there was no question of private initiative and free enterprise. All production activities were directed by the Reichswirtschaftsministerium. No enterprise was free to deviate in the conduct of its operations from the orders issued by the government. Price control was only a device in the complex of innumerable decrees and orders regulating the minutest details of every business activity and precisely fixing every individual’s tasks on the one hand and his income and standard of living on the other.
What made it difficult for many people to grasp the very nature of the Nazi economic system was the fact that the Nazis did not expropriate the entrepreneurs and capitalists openly and that they did not adopt the principle of income equality which the Bolshevists espoused in the first years of Soviet rule and discarded only later. Yet the Nazis removed the bourgeois completely from control. Those entrepreneurs who were neither Jewish nor suspect of liberal and pacifist leanings retained their positions in the economic structure. But they were virtually merely salaried civil servants bound to comply unconditionally with the orders of their superiors, the bureaucrats of the Reich and the Nazi party.â€
-Ludwig von Mises
Ooo, I like this one:
“Nazism was the first example of modern identity politics.”
-Nick Cohen
I didn’t say “outweighed”. But we pretty much invited the worst racists in the Democratic party in for tea, didn’t we?
Q: who conducted the longest-ever filibuster, and what was he filibustering?
And this one:
“Fascism” was, in fact, a Marxist coinage. Marxists borrowed the name of Mussolini’s Italian party, the Fascisti, and applied it to Hitler’s Nazis, adroitly papering over the fact that the Nazis, like Marxism’s standard-bearers, the Soviet Communists, were revolutionary socialists. In fact, “Nazi” was (most annoyingly) shorthand for the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. European Marxists successfully put over the idea that Nazism was the brutal, decadent last gasp of “capitalism.”
-Tom Wolfe
“I didn’t say “outweighedâ€. But we pretty much invited the worst racists in the Democratic party in for tea, didn’t we?”
Ummmm…..
No.
The Nazis removed everyone from control who were not Nazis. This is beyond obvious.
Nazism is much more closely related to fascism than to socialism, but it’s not really either.
Right-wing? Left-wing? Who the fuck cares? Insanity, is what it was.
“What I claim, for the record, is that fascism and socialism were kindred and linked phenomena, both residing on the left. Both Bolshevism and fascism were “heresies of socialism†in the words of Richard Pipes. There are some important distinctions between fascism and socialism, and many unimportant ones. And, since it needs to be said, support for genocide, mass murder and the crushing of democracy aren’t major distinctions between the most famous kinds of socialism and Nazism (which was “National Socialism” after all). But whatever the distinctions, they do not mitigate the simple fact that socialism and fascism have far more in common than not.”
-Jonah Goldberg
“Right-wing? Left-wing? Who the fuck cares? Insanity, is what it was.”
Anyone who refuses to accept the reactionary leftist attack on integrity, anyone who cares one whit about history, anyone disgusted by leftist lies and prevarications, that’s who should care.
And I for one refuse to allow leftist lies pass uncahallanged.
Oh, please. Do not throw Jonah Goldberg at me.
Goldberg pretty much started this whole “Nazism is Socialism” schtick, and he was and is dead wrong.
Also, I’m not really clear on why the words of Tom Wolfe ought to matter. I mean, I liked A Man In Full and all.
That’s me. But countering lies with lies is just more lies. I’m rather more interested in the truth.
“Goldberg pretty much started this whole “Nazism is Socialism†schtick,”
Well, no he didn’t.
See the von Mises quote above.
von Mises doesn’t say that, N.
I mean, I can see how you might be reading that into it, or how there may be a larger context in which he says that, but what you excerpted? Not so much.
“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” –Adolf Hitler
NSDAP platform.
We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.
All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.
It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.
The abolition of incomes unearned by work.
In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.
We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).
We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.
We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.
We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.
“Everything in the state, nothing outside the state.”
-Benito Mussolini
“von Mises doesn’t say that, N.”
Who did, slart?
I’ll correct my mis-attribution.
?
The Nazis on October 16, 1934 raised the highest income tax rate from 40% to 50%, and on February 17, 1939 raised that highest rate again to 55%. A decree of September 9, 1939 again increased income taxes, but exempted incomes of 2,400 Reichmarks a year or less. The same act of October 16, 1934 removed the exemption on business taxes for many types of businesses and it increased the progressivity of the business taxes; an act of August 27, 1936 raised the general business tax rate from 20% to 25% and to 30% for each year thereafter; then on July 25, 1938 corporate profits of more than 100,000 Reichmarks per year were subjected to an additional tax of 35% with that rising to 40% for each year thereafter; and on March 20, 1939, the Nazis imposed an excess profits tax.
In four years, Nazis had raised taxes to approximately one fourth of the national income.
The Loan Stock Law of December 4, 1934 virtually confiscated all dividends of six percent or, in some cases, eight percent by ordering the beneficiaries of stock dividends to invest those monies in state bonds. Even this was deemed to be too generous to the rich.
In January 1935, all mortgage banks and similar institutions were authorized to “offer” to owners of obligations issued by them a cut to 4.5% per cent in annual interest, for which the owner was to be compensated through a special payment corresponding to two percent of the face value of the obligation and this was “deemed” accepted unless the owner rejected it “in writing” and “within ten days”; in the latter case he also was forced to deposit the obligation with the credit-giving institution.
In 1934 Hitler asked Ferdinand Porsche Sr., owner of a consulting and design firm, to build a “people’s car,” from which resulted in the Volkswagen.
Egalitarianism and redistribution of wealth?
?
Yeah, fascism and socialism are like polar opposites. Sheh.
“It’s one thing to “acknowledge the historyâ€; it’s quite another to take some conveniently slanted version of history and use it as a bludgeon against the other guys.”
What if that “conveniently slanted version of history” is the TRUTH?
I’m not the one claiming that the Tea Party protests were prompted by conservative animus toward a black man inhabiting the White House. That would be Janeane Garafolo. Someone should point out to Ms. Garafolo that the Republican Party’s actions in the 1850’s-60’s made Barack Obama’s presidency possible, and that her Democrats’ view was of an America “by the white man, for the white man, to be administered by white men so long as they see fit.”
someone should also inform Ms. Garafolo that Planned Parenthood was founded specifically to exterminate little black babies just like her hero Barack.
Seen the recent mentions of David Duke in the news lately? Ever notice that the media ALWAYS associates Duke with the Republican party, despite the fact that the GOP denied Duke all party funding, denounced his candidacy and endorsed his Democrat opponent? Wow, sure looks like that “conveniently slanted version of history” is in full swing, doesn’t it? Funny, it’s always used as a bludgeon against conservatives. Never do we see Democrats called to account for their actual history.
The Department of Homeland Security views me as a potential “terrorist” for disagreeing with Obama on the extension of social benefits to minorities. Yes, I admit it, I favored the school vouchers that got those little black kids out of those crumbling, drug-plagued, crime-addled Washington, D.C. schools. Happily, Barky Obama, the black Superman, yanked those vouchers right out of those little kid’s hands. Please feel free to indict my character. I’m an evil, racist Republican.
Goldberg pretty much started this whole “Nazism is Socialism†schtick
No, he didn’t.
See chapter 12 of Friedrich Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom, “The Socialist Roots of Nazism”. Published in 1944.
von Mises doesn’t say that, N.
The Ludwig von Mises Institute disagrees. Published in 1945.
“The Revolution we have made is not a national revolution, but a National Socialist Revolution. We would even underline this last word, “Socialist.” The only rampart which exists against reaction is represented by our assault groups, for they are the absolute incarnation of the revolutionary idea. The militant in the Brown Shirt from the first day pledged himself to the path of revolution, and he will not deviate by a hairsbreadth until our ultimate goal has been achieved.”
Earnst Roem, 18 April 1934
“To the rank and file of the S.A. (Brown Shirts), the triumph of January, 1933, ws meant to carry with it the freedom to pillage, not only the Jews and the profiteers, but also the well-to-do, established classes of society.”
Winston Churchill “The Gathering Storm: Chapter 6, The Darkening Scene”
Comment by ZaphodZaphod on 4/27 @ 5:42 pm #
“The Revolution we have made is not a national revolution, but a National Socialist Revolution. We would even underline this last word, “Socialist.†The only rampart which exists against reaction is represented by our assault groups, for they are the absolute incarnation of the revolutionary idea. The militant in the Brown Shirt from the first day pledged himself to the path of revolution, and he will not deviate by a hairsbreadth until our ultimate goal has been achieved.â€
Earnst Roem, 18 April 1934
Then came the Night of the Long Knives.
Ayn Rand noted the similarities of Fascism and Communism, in that both make the individual merely a cog of the machine of the state. Classical liberalism puts the emphasis on the individual.
Now the Bush years may have been muddled, but which direction is Team Obama heading?
Hitler’s decision to sacrifice the S.A. doesn’t change the fact that the Nazi’s founded their party on the themes of socialist revolution, and competed openly with Germany’s communist parties for supporters. Attacking the communists didn’t make the National Socialists “right wing”. The Nazi’s happily absorbed all the communists who were willing to defect and pledge loyalty to Hitler. The NAZI party was a socialist party. Deal with it.
and it woulda worked too if it wuddn’t for those meddling capitalist kids
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaad yup, you shitty whining asshole. There, you foul mouth little nutter, now YOU’VE BEEN TOLD!
Nobody gives a fuck what you think of Charles Johnson, the Dems or the smell of your own racist taint.
Hahaha, what? Did you think PW was a place where you were gonna boogie your stinky backside up on Rob Crawford’s cock without someone telling you to fuck off?
How wrong you were.
“Fascism was the shadow or ugly child of Communism.”
“As Fascism sprang from Communism, so Nazism developed from Fascism. Thus were set on foot those kindred movements which were destined soon to plunge the world into even more hideous strife, which none can say has ended with their destruction.”
Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm, Ch. I, “The Follies of the Victors”
sexually deranged psychos those demorats
you’re like StrawManO!™ make up shit and say we’re against it.
FOAD, thor.
Comment by router on 4/27 @ 6:58 pm #
Please ignore the lying fascist cocksucker.
Thnak you.
Comment by Zaphod on 4/27 @ 7:00 pm #
Dittoes.
Slart the man’s been stripped of his pride, honor and of any illusion of an ability to think in linear terms; his quotes are all he has left.
Let’s allow him a few remaining food thoughts. For reasons unknown he feeds off of quotes of others. Allow P’brain to live out of respect for waterboarding sportsmanship, pojalsta.
Please #1039.
thor,
sperm for brains
Where is your shoe?
You lost it
When I had to show you the way
Which of us lost?
You, yourself?
I, myself?
Or… we ourselves?*
Jihadprints in the Sand
One night a shahid had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with Allah.
Across the sky flashed scenes from his life. During each scene he saw two sets of footprints in the sand: one belonging to him and the other to Allah. However, during the last, most desperate scene, he saw there was only one set of footprints. This troubled him and he turned to Allah and said,
“Allah! You swore that once I decided to follow you, you would never leave me. Why then, in my darkest hour, was there only one set of footprints in the sand?”
Allah smiled at him. “O glorious shahid, I love you and would never leave you. During your time of trial and suffering, when you saw only one set of footprints, it was because the bomb you detonated on that bus blew your fucking feet off. It was then that I carried you. In Glad bags.”
I actually have the T-shirt.
“David Brock from being a famous investigative reporter to”
This mccain character is a gas. I guess the Washington Times will do that to you.
YIP!
YIPYIPYIP!
YIP!
I see thor has access to the day room computer.
Downfall of the Lizoids
And old joke, remade! It is actually pretty good.
The final straw for me had to have the “Bush bowed too” lie.
err, too early in the morning for me, meant to say “had to have been”
Yes, Travis, they did raise taxes. They didn’t raise them to fund some kind of redistributionist socialist worker’s paradise, though, did they? I’ll give you one guess what taxes were raised for. The answer can be found in Mein Kampf, but also in practically any history book that describes the buildup to WWII.
Three check marks of socialism:
– Government control of industry and markets (check, to a large degree)
– Redistribution of wealth according to work done (this was completely absent in Nazi Germany)
– Elimination of private property (highly questionable)
That last is particularly telling. Nazism=socialism argues that Nazism invalidated private property, which is almost true. Nazism required that you toe the line and do your duty before you are rewarded (in any way; it’s not specified) with personal wealth, whereas socialism attempts to equalize personal wealth among those who work hardest, with particular attention to manual laborers.
Hitler didn’t have any particular love for the working class. Nazism was simply a vehicle for him to use to achieve his own ends, which was part power-madness and part eugenics program.
This is where socialism and Nazism part ways, and what makes them quite different. That they’re both hell for people who value individual liberty doesn’t make them the same hell.
Sorry for the delay in response; I had to help my daughter with her history. Which, completely coincidentally, had some substantial overlap with the rise and fall of the Third Reich.
You’re going to have to show me where that equates Nazism to socialism. I can’t find it.
The Nazis and the socialist were in fact enemies. The Nazis suckered the socialists into backing them based on common ends, but then backstabbed the socialists by denying them both the levers of power and legitimacy. They were not allowed to exist.
The socialists wanted power to enact some utopian-fantasy version of society; social justice, if you will. At least, they said they wanted that, and took active steps toward that end. The Nazis, on the other hand, just wanted complete and utter control. That the aforementioned complete control had some features of socialism doesn’t make it socialism, because (as I’ve stated repeatedly) there was that nontrivially important element of egalitarian society missing.
Charles hasn’t changed.
He has always despised fascists and anti-semites, whether they are islamic fascists and anti-semites or euro fascists and anti-semites, or rightwing fascists and anti-semites like Alex Jones.
He is purely consistant.
If Charles says Glenn Beck and FOXnews are pimping Alex Jones, or that Pam Geller and Robert Spencer are giving cover to Pro Koln and Valaams Belang, then I think they are.
I personally would not go up against Charles in the domain of investigative reporting.
What was the name of that guy that tried? hmmm…..Dan something I think.
lol
Sometime the enemy of your enemy is still just your enemy.
Sometimes an idiot is just an idiot. Like here.
hehe
Well Pablow, Charles was right about Schiavo, right about Dan Rather, right about the Leb photoshops, and he is right about IDT being creationism crapology.
You should know, you were there.
He is consistant.
He bans people for anti-abortion rants too.
I believe….Charles thinks pro-life warriors are a kind of fascists.
Naomi Wolf almost makes sense on torture, till she follows her master Soros’ directions and calls for show trials of Bush and Cheney. Still, worth reading.
Nishi–Charles will reward you with a bowl of meal worms. You are a loyal lizoid cultist.
Charles is a pompous mendoucheous dick. I agree with him on evolution, vaccines, and a host of other issues, but he is still a dick.
Nishi–Charles was wrong on Schiavo.
I am all for people controlling the ends of their own lives. But I am not for former spouses having that decision making authority over their former partners. Not without a writing. Call me crazy, but we put those protections on mere property issues like wills, shouldn’t the same apply to people?
And Charles Johnson is still a mendoucheous pile of steaming dog shit.
Joe, Charles refused to host the terribots, just like he refuses to host pro-life ravers.
And….FYI….I think he has banned meh at least 6 times.
Ask Pablow.
;)
Except in this latest case, you mean, where he turned out to be completely wrong?
I mean, we’re talking about Pam Geller, here, as a neo-nazi collaborator (or, as you have described it: enabler). Don’t you see how completely insane that is? He might have simply made a case that she’d failed to do her DD in picking allies; that I’d have no problem with. But he chose the Cliffs of Insanity, instead.
And you’ve followed him. That doesn’t surprise me; you’ve always been a follower in search of a leader.
What are you arguing, Slart? That NAZISM was really wingnuttery disguising itself as socialism?
You really think Hitler had that kind of long term plan? That in an era awash in socialism and its various permutations and spin-offs, Hitler was really not following the romantics? Or is it more likely that power corrupts, and that — as is ever the case when socialism or communism (in this case, National socialism) is attempted, human nature takes over and, well, some pigs become more equal than others?
Nishi. The guy at FR broke Rathergate. Charles created an animation to hammer it home. Bill Ardolino was off talking to experts in the field of typography, etc., and never got the credit he deserved.
Charles deserves a lot of credit for helping bring Rather down. But to say he’s been consistent is ludicrous – as Pablo has been at pains to make clear in this thread.
I don’t know what it is about cases like Schiavo or ID in certain schools that turn people like Charles and John Cole into nutballs who suddenly veer way left. Recall, I took a lot of heat from some social conservatives for my agreement, on legal grounds, with the judge in the Schiavo case; but that didn’t make me turn my back on my principles.
AGW is an article of faith. Those who treat it as settled science are today’s Ptolemians — and those who legislate and punish based on their beliefs would’ve been happy to see Galileo in home confinement, with his tongue cut out.
Jeff, the funny bit is that Copernicus kept the epicycles.
Well….is Charles consistant on American anti-semites and fascists?
Like Alex Jones?
Pam Geller (famous toilet blogger as i recall) is exactly in the same position vis a vis Pro Koln and Vlaams Belang as Glenn Beck and FOXnews’ Judge Neapolitano are vis a vis Alex Jones.
Yes, Bill should have got more credit.
He was teh awesomesauce.
Why do you say Charles is veering left?
He’s not.
He is just calling out fascists and anti-semites like he sees ’em.
IDT is the same as abortion discussion.
Charles has outlawed both on lgf.
Commenting is a priv, not a right.
I haven’t ever read Charles’ views on AGW.
Do you have a link?
Ha! You just made a joke, no?
just sharing – I have to go do work things but here’s this also I’m hungry
Ha! You just made a joke, no?
No…lgf was the first blog I ever commented on.
That is part of the disclaimer.
Charles is perfectly consistant.
He said, no abortion talk, no schiavo talk, or you get banned.
He says no IDT talk or you get banned.
If you get chummy with fascists and anti-semites, he’ll out you.
Charles is an equal opportunity fascist hater, but you’re REALLY going to get kerbstomped if you are an anti-semite.
I gtg too feets.
Have a supernice day!
I haven’t been listenin to much musik lately…bizzy.
But here is is an old post of me arguing with Robert Spencer.
heh
Damn, Nishi, for such a super smart person, you can be pretty obtuse at times.
So you are a doormat too? Get some self respect!
I am against torture, pro evolution, pro vaccines, pro science, would vote for gay marriage, a social moderate, for libertarian principals and Classical Liberalism…I even ride a bike and take photographs…and I still have concluded that Charles Johnson is a mendoucheous jerk off and is anything but principaled or consistent. And someone needs to lob off that goofy ponytail he is sporting.
Now go eat those meal worms, they are getting cold…or rather less wiggly.
I’m not sure what you mean by “wingnuttery”, Jeff. If you mean it in the same dismissive, he’s-an-evil-Republican sense that our residence trolls do, that wasn’t my point at all. If that’s the case, I have no idea where you fished that idea from. I don’t think the political spectrum is all black/white (or red/blue, if you prefer), so for me arguing counter to one possibility doesn’t automatically argue for only one possible alternative.
Sure. Is it your opinion, instead, that he warred on Europe purely to convert it to a socialist worker’s paradise?
I don’t think so. Hitler had clear, written intent to conquer (and reclaim, as he saw it, bit those two things are additive) new territories and reap the rewards later:
Oh, sure: paradise, at some point. Just not necessarily a paradise for the sake of equalization of all. Hitler wanted to create a paradise wherein the Aryan race could best propagate:
I don’t think that this way of looking at things lies so much along some right/left direction as it does along the sane/insane direction.
And, sure, you might argue that these two sets of axes aren’t completely perpendicular. They aren’t synonymous, though.
Evolution doesn’t care whether you’re pro or con ;)
Slart, is that an embrace of Pragmatism, as such, (which, wouldn’t that be supremely odd in the context of building a paradise, not that such a contradiction would stop a megalomaniac for a nanosecond)? Was Hitler familiar with the work of Charles Pierce, James or Dewey, an adherent to the pragmatist’s line of thinking? Or was he just spouting “useful” rhetoric there?
If by pragmatism, you mean materialism, then I think you’d be correct. The spiritual dimension of the materialism is pseudo-scientific racial superiority undergirded by a patchwork mythos.
I naturally assume Hitler had his perfect misunderstanding of Nietzsche going for him, so there’s that.
Can we get a new word, maybe……….. stufficity?
And what position is that, nitwit? Regarding Beck, specifically.
No, he didn’t, liar.
Pablow….
Napolitano has been on Jones’s show.
Charles says Beck is taking advert $ from Jones to pimp The Obama Delusion on his show.
And Charles aint the only one.
As for Beck…here yah go.
lol, I forgot how good ADF was!
Do you like them feets?
haha, he sure did Pablow……go ask him.
;)
You know….I really think you can’t afford Beck as a brand, Pablow.
Look at the risk analysis, lol.
As usual, I prefer to rephrase the problem statement in my language of choice….mathematics.
My studied point being, from a risk analysis POV Beck is too costly for Fox to continue to promote. We are less than 100 days into Obama’s presidency. That leaves 3 and 2/3 years for some Info Warrior or Stormfront nutter to attempt a Tim McVeigh and leave a trail of indelible electronic breadcrumbs right back to Beck. I would say the probability is relatively high, given the projected escalation of Beck’s rhetoric. The right dodged a bullet with Poplawski because Stormfront and Info Wars purged all his comments and links from the forums immediately…..think about if Poplawski’s Beck posting on SF had gone viral on youtube?
Max Blumenthal is watching now, and so are a lot of other ppl, including the DHS….prolly Charles.
I betcha the Stormfront Forums and Info Warrior forums get cached every hour now.
Irrevocable damage to the republican brand will result from Beck being linked as inspiration to a proto-assassin or attempted-bomber.
It would not be cost viable to me, but it’s your choice, Pablow.
I think you can’t afford Beck.
And….Charles is wrong. Neither Jones nor his movie are Beck show sponsors. Which, by extension, makes you wrong too. Again. As usual.
If you’re going to insist on this, do show the proof. Because that might be worth a laugh, and finally add some value to your presence.
Oh, E.D. Cain is wrong too. Beck specifically debunked the FEMA camp conspiracy theory. You should not get your facts from people who don’t know and don’t care about the things they’re discussing. Which is why I don’t pay you any mind.
No skin off my nose.
I don’t expect conservatives to self-police their insane clowns.
After all….that might require an exercise of their much vaunted moral authority, to do the right thing.
haha
Nope, there is no altruism in nature.
As long as Beck’s Insane Clown Posse conspiracy theory pulls in the juggalos, who cares if you get a few info warriors and stormfront troopers in your audience that think he’s for reallies?
Not your responsibility.
;)
“you can’t afford Beck” Pablo, which is why you own him, is the way that seems to be going just now.
Mr. Beck is a tv star like Eva Longoria and Hugh Laurie and nothing like Jared Padalecki but the difference is Mr. Beck works a lot more hours.
I, for one, am doing my part to see that your insane ass is marginalized.
Comment by Slartibartfast
Elimination of private property (highly questionable)
According to that definition, Sweden isn’t a socialist country, and neither would the Soviet Union have been under Lenin. You should look into the NEP (New Economic Policy) of 1921. The abolition of private property is an aspect of communism (sometimes) not socialism.
Hitler didn’t have any particular love for the working class. Nazism was simply a vehicle for him to use to achieve his own ends, which was part power-madness and part eugenics program.
And you think Mao, Lenin, and Stalin did love the common people? Seriously? Looking into peoples hearts is not a reliable way to determine if they hold to a particular political system.
Slartibartfast you are trying to argue that Hitler betrayed the revolutionary aspirations of his followers. Well I have news for you. The revolution is always betrayed. It has to be because it is a utopian fantasy that cannot exist in real life. Lenin, Mao, Stalin, Che, Castro, all betrayed the revolution as did Hitler.
The Nazis and the socialist were in fact enemies.
And Stalin had Leon Trotsky assassinated in Mexico so do tell. Which of those two wasn’t a socialist?
The socialists wanted power to enact some utopian-fantasy version of society; social justice, if you will. At least, they said they wanted that, and took active steps toward that end.
Ummm, that’s exactly what the Nationalist Socialist said, and did and yes they took active steps towards that end.
They are fascists NOT communists, but they are both socialist, just as Sweden is Liberal and socialist.
“I, for one, am doing my part to see that your insane ass is marginalized.”
Good luck with that!
hehe, im still a registered republican! I haven’t switched yet!
21% – 1
hahahaha
I will take a very radical outlier position and state I am absolutely against NAZIS. NAZIS are bad and not very nice. The right wing needs to do more to police those damn Nazis. Because they are everywhere. Look at Godwin’s Law, they are all over the internet.
Is the lizard king happy now?
To paraphrase: The only lizards I know of are those of Johnson and his cursed footballs. Their evil has spread to every city. Two or three years ago it was just another lizard cult, now… they’re everywhere. It is said that they are deceivers… they murder people in the night…
Of course this evil power is only in Johnson’s mind when he is stroking his own lizard (with bike gloves on).
Oh, that poll has nothing to do with you being a toxic lunatic. I’m registered unaffiliated, btw, so you’re not in my party or me yours. But you are a blight on humanity, and a spurt of diarrhea into any discussion you enter, and I’ll be pointing that out as long as it remains the case.
Are you still a Muslim, BTW? Or have you converted to Epsilonism? Are you keeping Daddy pissed off?
That’s a complication I’ve been mulling over. See, Hitler stated in Mein Kampf that he fully intended to make use of all that propagandization had to offer. Which kind of offers up for consideration the notion that some, or even all of what he said in Mein Kampf, or anywhere else for that matter, was propaganda.
Of course, to Hitler, “propaganda” didn’t mean lies, necessarily; it meant rather some version of the truth sufficiently simple that absolutely anyone could (eventually) get it.
Less than on Hitler solely, Slart, I think we might begin wonder about the implications of pragmatism as an anti-philosophical position, which isn’t to say that pragmatists won’t tell us honestly where it is they want to go with their paradigm, but more perhaps about our own failure of imagination to take us along to the necessary conclusions before even they can get to them.
I’ve got no problem with Sweden not being classified as a socialist country. I’ve been there, and there’s a fairly wide variety of incomes and living conditions, and the government isn’t quite as interventionist as all that.
Comment by Slartibartfast on 4/28 @ 1:38 pm #
According to that definition, Sweden isn’t a socialist country
I’ve got no problem with Sweden not being classified as a socialist country. I’ve been there, and there’s a fairly wide variety of incomes and living conditions, and the government isn’t quite as interventionist as all that.
Then socialism has never existed? Is that what you are arguing?
No. Socialism is an end to itself. The end of Nazism was to propagate the master race. Socialism has no such end, in general.
Hitler hated the socialists because of that: socialism was an end unto itself, and had no use for lebensraum, cults of personality, and extermination of Jews.
Oh, and sure: Hitler hated the socialists because they were (or so he thought) Jews.
Saying Nazism is socialism completely ignores 95% of Nazism, which is propagation of the master race, and expansion of German lands as a means to said propagation. Did Hitler hijack some socialistic notions toward that end? Sure he did. Does that make Nazism a left-wing ideology? I don’t think so.
We could try this: pick a political spectrum, and put Nazi Germany on that spectrum, and defend where you put it. Are you game?
We could try this: pick a political spectrum, and put Nazi Germany on that spectrum, and defend where you put it. Are you game?
Sure!
Nazi cultural focus on the community? YES.
Nazi economic focus on the community? YES
That was easy.
It’d be best if you’d point out where you think I said that. I just don’t think Sweden looked all that socialist, and am wondering what a socialist government is doing cutting back their welfare state and tolerating a market economy.
You picked: communitarianism.
While I profess to know nothing of the particulars, were I to run into this as a general question “…what a socialist government is doing cutting back their welfare state and tolerating a market economy…?” I’d guess that they found out their previous system wasn’t working as well as they had hoped it would and therefore were intent on trying out something else to see whether it might not work better.
You picked: communitarianism.
Otherwise known as Communism, socialism, Maoism, Trotskyism, Waldensians, Fascists, Nazis, etc.
Belief in the state before the individual is a hallmark of Fascist thought as much as Communist ideology.
I don’t think we can even have a discussion about this if you insist on lumping fascism with socialism. We might as well have just two categories: stuff that Travis likes, and stuff that Travis does not like.
Which is fine, provided that we start out from that point.
Comment by Slartibartfast
I don’t think we can even have a discussion about this if you insist on lumping fascism with socialism. We might as well have just two categories: stuff that Travis likes, and stuff that Travis does not like.
THEY call themselves socialists!
YOU are claiming they are not socialists!
Everything they supported and did suggests they are socialists (NOT communist).
If you want to argue THEY are wrong and YOU are right then bring out the proof.
There is a huge swath of proof above in posts that they believed in socialism and practised it.
Why do moderns use compass points or handedness (right this left that) as a basis through which to discuss politics, which after all — politics that is — is as fundamentally human a thing as breathing and fucking? I mean, what the heck? Politics isn’t about your right hand side or your left hand side. It is about how we organize our world, what aims we can cooperatively pursue, what things we’ll build together (or not), who gets to live (which foetus) and who does not (murdering death sentencees), what is to happen when my horse knocks down your fence because your 7 yr old kid riled him up throwing pebbles at him, stuff like life and living, or death and dying, not adherence to a goddamn red poster advertisement or a blue poster advertisement.
I can’t remember if I’ve made a point of categorizing you in the past. I’d have used the broad themes of Loser-likeness and Illiteracy with which to do so.
I can’t remember if I’ve made a point of categorizing you in the past. I’d have used the broad themes of Loser-likeness and Illiteracy with which to do so.
I know Thor. It’s the drugs that do that to your memory. No we haven’t met before, but I am a bad person, yes I am. Now go back to sleep. You need your rest.
They also called themselves “democratic”. So much for truth in advertising.
Someone has short-term memory problems. Luckily, it’s all upthread. Read again, or possibly for the first time.
I don’t know why I bother, really. Arguing about “blue” with someone who doesn’t see in color is an exercise in futility.
Sorry, Travis. I’d guess there’s a great many other things that we might agree on, but we’re just never going to agree on this thing.
Its nice to see others are able to see just how unhinged Charles Johnson truly is.
They also called themselves “democraticâ€. So much for truth in advertising.
http://www.hitler.org/speeches/01-27-32.html
Thus democracy will in practice lead to the destruction of a people’s true values. And this also serves to explain how It is that peoples with a great past from the time when they surrender themselves to the unlimited, democratic rule of the masses slowly lose their former position; for the outstanding-achievements of individuals which they still possess or which could be produced in all spheres of life are now rendered practically ineffective through the oppression of mere numbers. And thus in these conditions a people will gradually lose its importance not merely in the cultural and economic spheres but altogether, in a comparatively short time it will no longer, within the setting of the other peoples of the world, maintain its former value.
Dusseldorf, Industry Club
SPEECH OF JANUARY 27, 1932
Really doesn’t sound to me like he had any great love for democracy, nor did he bother hiding it.
You have bought into the leftist concepts of history lock, stock, and barrel. What your teachers told you in high school and college do not often conform to reality.
That said, you are correct in that we must agree to disagree.
hitler.org? No effing way. Really?
Comment by happyfeet on 4/28 @ 7:28 pm #
hitler.org? No effing way. Really?
I don’t think its one of those kind of places. Not like the Stormfront creeps.
I think?
Anyway they had the speech.
Comment by Travis on 4/27 @ 1:41 pm #
Over on Ace of Spades some lizard goons got upset that the posters were criticizing Charles. They started demanding that ‘Ace clean up his act’ and talking about death threats that were made. No one could actually find these threats but Ace of Spades was removed from the glorious roll-call of blogs at LGF.
The AoS incident is so odd. And misplaced. The commenters over at Hot Air loathe Charles a lot more than do the morons at Ace’s site.
PW is in the enviable position of being immune to Johnson’s “ban hammer.” He doesn’t link to you guys so you can say whatever you want.
The whole “heads exploding” multi-post schtick he pulled recently is so bizarre. He really spends an inordinate amount of time tracking comments about himself. Pretty funny. Reminds me of this classic quote from Grosse Pointe Blank from the scene when Blank confronts his old high school bully:
“Do you *really* believe that there’s some stored up conflict that exists between us? There *is* no us. *We* don’t exist. So who do you wanna hit, man? It’s not me. Now whaddya wanna do here, man?”
oh – I just had never thought of that before is all.
The AoS incident is so odd. And misplaced. The commenters over at Hot Air loathe Charles a lot more than do the morons at Ace’s site.
I think it went downhill so rapidly because at AoS the posters say what they want and are not banned at the drop of a hat.
Charles and his lizards don’t really know how to deal with that as they spend a lot of their time maintaining discipline in the lizard ranks.
Comment by happyfeet on 4/28 @ 8:14 pm #
oh – I just had never thought of that before is all.
If you liked that one, you will love this!
Nazi.org – Web site for the Libertarian National Socialist Green Party
I am not goin there, but what the hell???
235 Comment by Travis on 4/28 @ 8:25 pm
Instead of doing a string search for Charles Johnson, LGF, or whatever, he should try reading AoS. Maybe he’d develop a sense of humor.
I actually like aspects of LGF, but when he manages to lose the comparatively cerebral group over here at PW he should get a clue and realize he’s destroying his credibility.
I went there. I was curious about how they worked the “Green” in. I read where they said how that works but … it eluded me. They like nature and stuff and also Nazi things.
Ace rewrote one of my comments as a homophobic slur.
That is the new AoS.
I never go there unless someone I think highly of links them and even then I never linger. I can’t really go there less but if I could I would do that for you.
I went there. I was curious about how they worked the “Green†in. I read where they said how that works but … it eluded me. They like nature and stuff and also Nazi things.
Well, after you posted so did I.
They are flat out nuts. I can just imagine subcontracted (Libertarians after all) Nazi Stormtroopers forcing people to replant trees or something.
239. Comment by Nishi_Jenkins on 4/28 @ 9:00 pm #
Ace rewrote one of my comments as a homophobic slur.
That is the new AoS.
Oh, well, if YOU say so!
bwahahaha
Actually, that is the OLD AoS. Ace rarely posts, because he is so busy rewriting EVERYONE’S comments as homophobic slurs. If you go there, you will find nothing but homophobic slurs. Here is an example:
“Hmmm, ‘bear’ should be ‘beat’. You can bear a drum, but it doesn’t impress the chicks”
Clearly, this is a coded reference to going out and beating up gays. They are pointing out that just carrying them around unconscious won’t impress their homophobic slut girlfriends, they need to actually beat them unconscious, first.
Also, you hear a lot about “hobo hunting” and “Val-U-Rite” vodka. The term “hobo” is a thinly disguised reworking of “homo”. The entire AoS site is nothing but hateful, hateful homophobes.
tiny little balls is/has tiny little balls. it doesn’t deserve fanfare. its like some Apple-fest hosted by some guy who met Steve Jobs at the Food Court…..except Steve Jobs is famous for having done something. Mr. tiny little balls is supposedly a musician. The bitter is caused by the musician being anonymous while the blegger is famous. Its about making a relevant statement people!!
Famous world-shakin’, music-makin’ mufo, tiny little balls, everybody!!
I don’t know what it is about cases like Schiavo or ID in certain schools that turn people like Charles and John Cole into nutballs who suddenly veer way left
In Cole’s case, it was the realization that he was finally getting recognized after a long period of mediocrity. That it was from the Kos kids apparently didn’t matter. A few years and a few thousand “via Sully” posts later, the formula still stands.