Or, when is a contrived mea culpa nothing more than a passive-aggresssive attempt to prove oneself correct and insightful in the long term?
Well, there still isn’t much organization and little professionalism, but it turns out that I was the one lacking realism. I failed to grasp the excitement this idea generated and how it would animate the grass roots to actually get out of their chairs and do something about the creeping statism and generational theft being perpetrated by the Obama Administration. I also failed to give any credit to the thousands of ordinary citizens who, without any help from an organized political structure and with little or no money, managed to organize around 800 of these tea parties, and make a virtue out of their inexperience by being imaginative and working hard. In the end, results count. Today will see uneven results from venue to venue but overall, will no doubt be judged a success — if not by the media then by the movement itself.
[…]
But my concern in February, as it is now, is that the rhetoric about what the tea parties will accomplish will not match the reality of what actually occurs. Exaggerated claims of “revolution†as appear on the PJTV site are not only unrealistic but defeat the purpose of the movement by scaring otherwise sympathetic people off. Most Americans probably do not want “revolution†nor are they necessarily in tune with the goals of the tea party – not when 71% of Americans approve of Obama’s handling of the economy. The best that can be said is the that success of the tea parties show that many Americans are uneasy about this administration’s actions in spending our way to oblivion and that higher taxes for everybody are a dead certainty as a result.
— Well, either that, or that the media — which on the (paying) right is peopled these days by “pragmatic conservatives” like Mr Moran who have an almost Clintonesque fidelity to polling — has been successful thus far in painting these protests as quaint and vaguely pathetic. Maddow’s jeering, or Roesgen’s contempt, is complemented by the sneers of people like Moran. And taken altogether, this framing of the Tea Party movement (which, the subtext makes clear, is emblematic of movement conservatism) likely has a tangible effect on how people react publicly to it.
Or, to put it another way, for all his talk about how these protests are likely to be seen as offputting by moderates who might otherwise be sympathetic to them, Moran is actually being less descriptive than he is complicit in that very framing he claims so concerns him.
That Moran (and he is not alone in this, naturally) manages to affect a kind of patronizing paternalism is hardly surprising, then, given that this seems to be the default attitude of those pragmatists who have concluded that GOP victories are more readily available to conservatives than is a grassroots uprising in which the principles of classical liberalism are forcefully reaffirmed. Consequently, to their way of thinking it should be the former that we spend our energy chasing — with the latter representing an impossibly “purist” fanaticism that must necessarily be rejected by educated realists and policy wonks who don’t wish to see the GOP consigned forever to the political wilderness.
For Moran, the polls bear this out: he sees Obama’s purported popularity and he fears it; but even more so, one gets the sense he fears the de-legitimacy that comes with being labeled part of an “extremist fringe” — and in order to avoid such, he is willing to help progressives (whether intentionally or not) define the very “extremists” he must forever lurch left of to remain safe from the same dismissive scorn he has helped enable. Disagree with me, he seems to be saying. Just don’t stop taking me seriously as a thinker.
It’s a shell game, and the pragmatists in the GOP continue to play it, doubling down with each fresh loss, pretending that the next time the shells are shuffled they really might find that pea. Evidently, keeping a place at the table is preferable for these folks to watching from the sidewalk, even if to remain playing these same “realists” repeatedly have their principles stolen by con men in a game they know is entirely rigged.
Rick is a very bright guy, and I don’t mean to pick on him here. But for the purposes of this argument, he quite concretely represents one side in the current “conservative” divide. I happen to believe he is on the wrong side of things; but I also believe it is necessary to have these kinds of arguments about strategy going forward, because doing so will likely determine whether or not classical liberalism — the founding ideology of this country — can find representation in one of the two major political parties.
If not, it will have either to concede ground to the pragmatists, or else find another expression outside the traditional two-party divide.
Don’t think of it as slash and burn. Think of it more as a sculptural pruning of an overgrown Bush.
And what I wish to make clear is that, if articulated outside the Democrat / Republican paradigm, classical liberalism is likely to garner support from many whom we now think of as being on the “left” thanks in large part to their having been conditioned to vote Democrat by rote.
Would you say that the Tories in GB have remained out of power for half a generation now because A)They have tacked to far to the left in order to attract the “moderates” and can’t manage to engage their base, or B)GB has tacked to far to the left for the Tories to remain relevant whatsoever.
I’m not taking a side, I’m just curious as to what others think. Cause it seems like the right/center-right in our nation is wandering around a similar vacant lot.
I added a few final paragraphs, Sticky B. See if they speak to your question.
Exaggerated claims of “revolution” as appear on the PJTV site are not only unrealistic but defeat the purpose of the movement by scaring otherwise sympathetic people off
Rick? We don’t need the ‘fraidy cats who are so sensitive to image, so easily scared off by strong language, so attuned to what other people think that they can’t be counted on to operate on principle rather than popularity.
Who are these people that are being frightened off by words like “revolution”? Besides you, Charles Johnson, Patrick Frey, and the occasional Allahpundit, I mean. Your grandmother? Your spinster aunt? Your liberal friends whose snark you cannot abide?
Seriously. Go ahead and express your concerns, but don’t expect us to take you seriously. What will you tell your children when the U.S. goes broke? That you argued strenuously for restraint on the part of the protesters?
Fine. You want that to be your legacy, chisel it in granite now: “The stakes are never so high that you have to be unpleasant.” It’s a fitting grave stone.
I’m getting thoroughly tired of all these dipshits telling me that expressing my belief in conservative values alienates moderates — whoever the hell “moderates” are.
Screw ’em.
And when/where can I get my Protein Wisdom “Outlaw Rightwing Extremist” T-shirt?
I mean to pick on him, though.
When getting a job with the MSM ( or securing the favor of potential candidates for public office ) is one’s major concern, telling the truth about a grass roots movement isn’t a concern at all, as a matter of fact it is an impediment. Now I’m not saying that plays a major role in anyone’s analysis, only the writer ( or blogger ) knows that for sure. To an outsider looking in, who knows the tea party movement and its participants, it certainly doesn’t look good or honest, though…
PJTV has never scared off an otherwise sympathetic person from anything. Ever. It’s one of those if I have to explain things though.
Tamburlaine:
Come, let us march against the powers of heaven,
And set black streamers in the firmament,
To signify the slaughter of the gods.
Useless advisor #1:
But let us do so with nuance!
Useless advisor #2:
Oh, the heart-ache!
*
OUTLAW!!1!eleventy!!twittertwittertweettwat!
Which all seems so funny since many of the people at these protests ARE moderates. Judging from the signs that don’t suggest revolution, just that they don’t believe in the theft being carried out “in our name”. The claims at some sites may be exaggerated. Or not. But his target audience is already participating to some extent.
One very common complaint that we hear from the squishy middle is that there is no difference between the two parties. Why is it, then, that the “pragmatic Republicans” think that being just like Democrats, just less so, is a good idea? I think people would welcome a true opposition party. I think the problem is getting the word out more than anything, and people like Moran would prefer that the word stayed under wraps where it belongs.
He is not helping.
As far as sitting on the sidelines is concerned, if that’s where we end up, so be it. We can no longer afford to compromise our principles, if we ever could. I would rather stand firm and lose, because I think the shock of what the progressives do when they are not controlled is enough to bring people around to our way of thinking. And if it is not, better that we know sooner rather than later so we can prepare for the results.
oh. That’s nice of you to call Mr. Moran a very bright guy.
Will some conservative politician try and “adopt†the tea party movement and would that be a good thing? We all agreed that some kind of leadership is necessary but that the movement should strive to maintain its independence.
That is a lot not bright. These people have a will to action that makes Rick very nervous and he should just say so. They are anti-socialists first and foremost is what I think, and some kind of leadership is not at all necessary. I just hope the tea party peoples are not uninclined to break shit. They were entirely too nice to the CNN cooze I thought. They had the bitch surrounded.
Anyone know how slaughtering the gods polls? I’m thinking it’s in the range privatizing social security.
You guys just don’t get it.
“The stakes are never so high that you have to be unpleasant.â€
dicentra, I think you have managed to paraphrase their argument quite nicely. Whenever I hear or read the anguished calls for restraint, nuance and not to be offputting – all I can think of is a call for a domestic political version of “Smart Power” (and its current record of awesome success!).
If obamas budget is passed, we will have trillion dollar deficits even as far as 2019. These are not my budget numbers. These are the adminstration’s OWN budget numbers. We oppose annual trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see. We ARE the moderates.
The media has managed to convince the sheeple that O! Is a good steward of the economy. In time, they’ll learn they’ve been fooled. I have no interest in pandering to fools caught up in a fad. Eventually the “moderates” will come to me when interest rates rise very rapidly, inflation follows, and O! raises their taxes to at least reduce the deficit.
And the Pragmatic Conservatives can kindly go duck themselves at that time.
Like I’ve said before, Moran should go back to writing lengthy synopses of the latest episode of “24”
He is a commissar wanna be.
“classical liberalism is likely to garner support from many whom we now think of as being on the “left†thanks in large part to their having been conditioned to vote Democrat by rote.”
Jewish voters.
Black voters.
Hispanic voters.
My question is how do they stand being treated as political lawn jockeys by the Democratic establishment?
Slightly off-topic: I think these Tea Party protests are fairly unprecedented, in that they are a center to right phenomenon rather than a leftist one. Is that correct? I certainly don’t remember anything like this happening in recent years, at least on this scale.
Comment by cranky-d on 4/16 @ 11:41 am #
The left owns the street.
At least they think they do.
Which is a partial explanation of the nervous sweat from the reactionaries.
HAH!
“House Democrat Leaders: Tea Partiers Are Racist, Nazi, Gun Nuts”
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/04/house_democrat_leaders_tea_par.asp
I’m coming around to the opinion that people like Moran simply lack the courage of their convictions. It’s all well and good to ruminate on the best approach for winning over “moderates” but it’s thinking rooted in thirty years of prosperity and an electorate which has grown fundamentally unserious as a result of it. What the hell does he think is going to happen when a lot of these Range Rover suburbanites realize that, for instance, with their depleted investments, depleted endowments at colleges, disincentives for charitable giving and higher taxes that they won’t be able to swing tuition for their kids at private colleges?
There are going to be a whole lot of wake-up calls. And it is beyond me how anyone who fancies himself to be on the right could fail to see this. That is, unless they don’t actually believe that Obama has us headed for a train wreck, in which case why the fuck are they conservatives at all?
Exaggerated claims of “revolution†as appear on the PJTV site are not only unrealistic but defeat the purpose of the movement by scaring otherwise sympathetic people off. Most Americans probably do not want “revolution†nor are they necessarily in tune with the goals of the tea party – not when 71% of Americans approve of Obama’s handling of the economy.
I’ll pick on Ricky too, that invertebrate weasel. Is “revolution” super-duper scary, Rick? We heard about revolution and “taking our country back” for eight years, nimrod. It worked. So spare us the hand-wringing over words.
Little Ricky Who Cowers In His Brother Terry’s Shadow just loves to quote that Gallup poll. So if 71% of us also want, hypothetically, to eliminate the Second Amendment, or perhaps the First, would Li’l Rick’s response be “The best that can be said is the that success of the tea parties show that many Americans are uneasy about this administration’s actions in restricting free speech and confiscating firearms?” Ricky, you used the word “oblivion,” pal. So you must think something pretty serious has gone wrong.
This whole effort by Ricky smells bad. It looks like a rhetorical case of putting the cart before the horse. He seems to be saying “Why bother with these silly tea parties when so many people just love Obastard and his tingle? Aren’t you wasting your time? What can you accomplish when 71% reject you?” Uh, Rick, the whole point is to change the direction, frame the debate, and lead the fucking horse. The cart will follow, or it won’t. Where do you wanna go, RIck? If the 71% head for the cliff, will you get in line and conform? Or are you merely a disinterested observer? They why use non-objective, scary phrases like “spending our way to oblivion?” You know, oblivion. One choice out of many, nothing to get excited about.
You can’t have your brother’s job, Ricky. He’s better at it than you are.
Okay. So maybe I was picking on him a little bit.
It’s just that last time I did that to somebody it turned into a rather ugly back and forth. And it’s baseball season now. Who has the time?
I don’t think the brother thing is fair exactly. It’s kind of interesting that a member of his family is willing to work at Disney to produce dirty socialist television propaganda, but it could be that his brother is just of very poor character all by himself. It doesn’t necessarily reflect badly on any of the other Morans.
As much as I love the libertarian party as a concept, practically speaking they may serve better if they became a lobby. Not only would they be supported from the 20% or so libertarian-minded voters, but I think both parties would turn to them for information and/or endorsement. I suspect properly played, it could quickly outshine the NRA.
I don’t understand why conservative BLOGGERS of all people would be trying to discount or disparage the authenticity of the Tea Parties, when the whole point of the movement would be congruous with what most conservatives and libertarians -and bloggers in particular- brag about standing for.
They were grass roots, spontaneous and non-partisan. Why the fuck are these people knowcking them down?
Charles at LGF couldn’t possibly do more to hide his contempt and it just baffles me why they take this attitude to what is clearly a serious and solid groundswell of opinion.
I find people like Rick Moran embarrassing. It bothers me to have to explain him to my friends when they want to know how I can identify with someone for whom they have such contempt.
I wish Rick would choose his words more carefully so they can’t be misinterpreted.
I don’t think the brother thing is fair exactly.
I agree. I respect Terry far more than Rick. You know where Terry leans.
This keeps up he’s gonna pout again.
Byron York:
“You can think what you like of the tea parties, and the media coverage of the tea parties, across the country. Here in Winchester, Tax Day was a serious and well-meaning affair. For the people here, there are principles at stake in this fight, and, as much as they can, they intend to stand up for what they believe.”
“You can think what you like of the tea parties, and the media coverage of the tea parties, across the country. Here in Winchester, Tax Day was a serious and well-meaning affair. For the people here, there are principles at stake in this fight, and, as much as they can, they intend to stand up for what they believe.â€
Hey, look over there… a Portuguese Water Dog! Now that’s real news. Did you know Sarah Palin was embarrassing?
From NO’Brain’s link to the Weekly Standard: “…even a strong Obama supporter like Susan Roesgen didn’t turn up any violent types at the Chicago Tea Party, despite her best attempt to provoke a strong reaction.”
She was cracking me up, referring to the Obama sign with the mustache as “offensive.” First, has she been in suspended animation for the last eight years? Second, no one has a right not to be offended, sweetie. If free speech for citizens as well as for CNN reporters tends to give you the vapors, well, too f’n bad.
Trying to read the teeny, tiny minds of the bien pissants on either side is best achieved by contemplating their investment in the status quo. It’s not as if any principles other than “make some dough” were ever involved in Roger and Charles’ Excellent Adventure.
There’s no magic involved in moving the Muddle and the pissants know it. That’s the source of the fear of Palin and playing down the Tea Party theme. For both sides.
IMO – it’s far easier to move the American Muddle to populism than it is to get it to take the European serf’s collar. I’m no fan of populism but it beats the hell out of the incestuous bastard cousins of Communism, Fascism and Socialism, all living under one roof at 1600 Pensylvania Avenue at the moment.
bien pissants
You owe me a new keyboard.
Sticky B,
Very briefly, I think there are several issues that have kept the Tories out. Firstly, they were obliterated as a national party north of the border, and Scotland elects disproportionately more MPs to Westminster. Maggie’s legacy was hated by the central belt between Glasgow-Edinburgh, and that historically has been bedrock left/hard left/loony left. Public opinion north of the border has never forgiven her for the poll tax, the miners’ strike, or the closure of the steel industry.
Secondly, New Labour successfully portrayed the Tories as a corrupt bunch of hogs with snouts firmly in the trough, with high profile ministers ending up vacationing at Her Majesty’s pleasure.
Thirdly, the public forgot how horrid life was under Old Labour, and can’t remember why Maggie waved The Road To Serfdom over her head at conference.
Things have changed, and “Call Me Dave” enjoys a huge majority in the polls, for whatever that is worth. An election in 6 week would see the Tories swept into power with a landslide, which is precisely why there won’t be an election.
Sticky B @1
The NuLabour government is falling apart as we speak. Google Smeargate or Guido Fawkes and look at the whole sordid mess.
If the government were to call an election tomorrow, they would get stuffed. As they hang on to power and the situation deteriorates the stuffing they receive will get worse. Even the MSM, which needed Guido in the blogosphere to uncover the Smeargate mess, is starting to turn on Gordon Brown and his cronies.
The tories have been trying to run as Labour Lite for the last five years and are not very well positioned to capitalise on the current disaster, so when the next election comes, there will be a lot of ‘A Plague on both your houses’ voting going on.
The Liberal Democrat party is neither, and has incoherent policies to boot, so expect votes for UKIP, (an anti EU party), the BNP, (an anti-immigration national socialist party), and even the Monster Raving Loony party.
I expect the tories to win, but I also expect it to be messy, and hopefully no party will have a majority in Parliament.
Rick doesn’t owe me a keyboard, but as a cognomen for “pragmatic Republican” commentators that one’s hard to beat.
Regards,
Ric
Eeep! Forgot what had been copied.
I mean the bien pissants inspiration, of course, although I would always recommend reading Paco’s blog.
Regards,
Ric
bien pissants
Wow! This plus “visual onomotopoeia” in the other thread.
WooHoo! Awesome coinage day!
cranky-d:
I utterly agree cranky-d. But then, thinking about when the founding documents of the country have been so plainly under attack, when the guiding philosophical stance of that founding has been so generally cast aside in US history, that a strenuous defense of it may have been called for…….? The only case that comes to mind is the Presidency of that other famous racist, Woodrow Wilson. Of course, not only were none of us alive then but our schools haven’t bothered to teach the contempt in which Wilson held that philosophical stance and the lengths he openly admitted he would undertake to overthrow it. Barack Obama is truly treading new ground here, as he himself is proud to tell us. He openly confesses, we must have a new foundation, and he means it.
I disagree in part with Rick Moran, but he does manage to cudgel the lefty dimwits here:
Now that’s just tasty goodness right there.
I think they’re living in a separate reality.
Bien pissants and visual onomotopoeia are lovely constructs. Thanks for those.
How obvious a stupid-fuck’n whackoid do you have to be when even a horse won’t follow you?
Thor is a rectal ramrod. NTTAWWT
Having just this morning had the vet over to pull “coggins” blood samples, I’d like you to stop by, thor. We’ll see if a horse will follow you; I have a specific one in mind…
Regards,
Ric
thorknob’s up from his nap again finding his britches to have been freshly shat.
The sock puppet above who used my name (#31) should really be proud. And bringing my brother into this conversation was kewl too.
No back and forth, Jeff. You’re right. Cubs are losing, Sox are doing well, God is in his heaven, and all is well.
The Rockies need two starters and something to show for the Matt Holliday trade. Politics can wait until the important issues are settled.
Ronald Reagan passed from the political stage two decades ago and is dead. If you want to get any momentum on any idea you cannot continuously harken back to the “glory days”, you have to do something else. He was a leader who tapped into a movement that wasn’t being taken seriously then.
That was then. This is now.
Now, here is a movement that is springing up without a leader. And the top-down people can’t understand it, even though this is exactly what the internet was made for. In the absence of formal command-and-control, the internet was to keep communications open. Without a leader the disparate units have communicated with each other and are organizing.
Here is a hint for the top-down people: when someone volunteers his time and talent without any pay or priviliege in return, then you really have something valuable and a force to be reckoned with.
and I will tell you why. The Republican party does not reflect on you. The Republican party does not reflect on me. How Republicans are perceived? How Republicans are perceived does not reflect on you. How Republicans are perceived does not reflect on me. Being an individual person is still allowed and even encouraged in many places. People what forget that are usually ones what watch
way too muchtv.There’s just six ways to Sunday you can overdramatize all of this, but the truth is, our little country is being fucked hard by dirty socialists and their media, and perception and strategy and messaging are nothing against how do you answer this question every night: What did you do today to smack our dirty socialist piece of shit president and his dirty socialist media upside their fucking dirty socialist heads?
Nice to see other people who think Twitter is a bunch of self indulgent crap.
#52 Christopher:
How could it be otherwise when it is the electronic version of teeny-boppers whispering and giggling with each other?
At least, it is now. We will see how it actually develops. It could end up being very subversive.
“Exaggerated claims of “revolution†as appear on the PJTV site are not only unrealistic but defeat the purpose of the movement by scaring otherwise sympathetic people off. Most Americans probably do not want “revolution†nor are they necessarily in tune with the goals of the tea party…”
Would it be too frightfully radical, hysterical, or uncouth of me to note that the first American Revolution was supported — and independence from Britain achieved — by just over a third of the population?
Most Americans don’t give a shit. Never have, never will. You can quote me on that.
#40 It’s worse than that. It’s a middle class revolt. They’re the wrong group of people to piss off.
[…] Jeff G continues his frenzied, unacceptably gauche ranting and raving, once again mortifying the more sober, properly genteel conservatarian commentariat: That Moran […]
I once shot an Onomotopoeia in my pajamas.
Most Americans probably do not want “revolution†nor are they necessarily in tune with the goals of the tea party – not when 71% of Americans approve of Obama’s handling of the economy.
Does this mean that 29% of Americans still understand it’s not a president’s job to “handle the economy” in the first fucking place?
This is somewhat off-topic but it’s nice to see that Cold Fury hasn’t turned into a bunch of navel-gazing pussies. Perhaps Jeff and Mike could recommend their dietary supplements to some of the other bloggers out there.
Speaking strictly for myself, I’d say it’s probably the bourbon. That, and the fact that I work for a magazine with the word OUTLAW in the title.