Andrew Boucher explains Obama’s tax plan (such as it is) in this preview of his weekend column for Fort Collins Now:
Obama’s tax plan includes four main components: Higher marginal rates; higher estate taxes; higher corporate taxes; and higher taxes on investments. Let’s go through them, one-by-one.
[…]
The “Joe the Plumber†tax raises taxes on small businesses, crushing entrepreneurial job creation at the most basic level. Most small businesses are LLC’s or S-Corporations. Every net dollar they earn is taxed as “income†for the owner. Even if a small business owner decides to take a small salary each year and leave money in his or her business for future investment or payroll, all of that money is taxed as “personal incomeâ€Â. Moreover, many small businesses live from contract to contract. They might receive a large check at the end of a year and then set that money aside to make sure they can make payroll for upcoming lean months. Obama’s plan raises taxes on that money, perversely calling it “incomeâ€Â. In the real world, that money is often next month’s paycheck or next year’s job security for employees.
Barack Obama is also calling for higher estate taxes: More “tax the rich†class warfare, more real-world pain for working Americans. The current estate tax rate is scheduled to sunset over the next few years. Barack Obama will set it at 45 percent. For Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, that might not be that big a deal, but what about a family farm or small business? Many are worth enough to trigger the estate tax but only produce a modest income for the owners. Those farms or businesses are taxed at the “value†of the company, not for the revenue they produce. All too often, the only way the next generation can cover their estate tax bill is to sell off the farm or business. Most “Mom and Pop†small businesses don’t survive to the next generation. The estate tax destroys them.
[…] do your parents own their home? If they passed away, would you be able to write a check to cover the estate taxes on the value of that home, or would you have to put it on the market in order to pay the government? On December 31, 2010, the estate tax is scheduled to expire. Barack Obama wants to set it to 45 percent for the highest marginal rates. Part of the American Dream is that our children will live better than we do, that we’ll be able to create something and pass it on. Barack Obama’s tax plan makes that dream unattainable for many Americans.
Barack Obama will raise taxes on “big oil.†Who do you think actually pays for those taxes on “big oil� We do, of course. Everyone pays, regardless of whether or not we can afford it. We pay higher prices at the gas pump and higher prices for our groceries. (It takes gas to run farm equipment and the trucks that get the groceries to the supermarket.) Barack Obama’s higher taxes on “big oil†will hurt lower-income Americans the most. While they might make for a nice sound bite, taxes on “big oil†are among the most regressive and punitive taxes. Remember those 40 percent who don’t owe federal income taxes? Ironically, Barack Obama’s plan means they take less money home at the end of the week.
Finally, a question: How’s your 401k these days? Your pension? Stocks have plummeted as investors have pulled their money out of the market. Yet just as the market is crashing, Barack Obama is planning to raise taxes on capital gains and dividends, further discouraging investment and cutting an even larger chunk of money out of the stock market. Were you planning on retiring anytime soon? Under an Obama administration, you might be working a few extra years.
We’ve seen this type of “tax the rich†mentality before. In 1989, President George H.W. Bush and the Democrat-controlled Congress passed a ten percent “luxury tax†on yachts priced at more than $100,000, thinking that the “rich†would easily be able to afford the surcharge. What happened? Just two years after the new tax went into effect, the New York Times reported that “In the last two years, about 100 builders of luxury boats — recreational craft costing more than $100,000 — cut their operations severely and laid off thousands of workers.â€Â
Thousands of workers lost their jobs: Machinists, tradesmen, carpenters, laborers, designers. The “tax the rich†mentality – especially higher taxes on business – sends lower and middle income workers to the unemployment office. Higher estate taxes destroy the ability to pass small businesses, family farms or homes on to the next generation. Higher taxes on “big oil†lead to regressive cost increases at the gas pump and the grocery checkout lane. Higher taxes on investments leads to reduced values for retirement accounts, 401k’s and pensions.
That is what Barack Obama is proposing. That is his change for America. Look at it this way: Maybe you can use your government check – oops, I mean “refundable tax credit†– to pay for it all. You might even want to spend it on some new resume paper. You’re going to need it.
Comments and criticisms welcomed and encouraged.
Meanspirited swipes? Not so much. Keep it civil, please.
— Or I’ll be forced to slap a bitch.
This is why people who don’t pay their own rent/mortage shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
NPR keeps parroting the 95% of Americans will get a tax cut lie. No. Real people are in very real danger. Baracky says we’ll all have to sacrifice and the dirty socialist bitch means it.
That’s civil as I can be.
This is how Senator McCain should be addressing this issue. Jeff, I believe you oulined the problem with William Ayers regarding the radical educational philosophy, that he and Obama championed with the CAC, which was an abject failure.
The McCain campaign has been poorly handled, rudderless in delivering their message, and lacking the organization necessary at the ground level. When I went to vote, I was greeted by an Obama supporter, who tried to hand me a piece of paper, advising me who I should vote for in the other races. I declined, then tried to take her picture with my phone camera. She covered her face, and quickly moved to the opposite end of the parking lot. The was no similar McCain pesonnel at the polling area.
Ronaldus Magnus said it pithily:
“Corporations don’t pay taxes; they collect taxes.”
Not related but I have to post this link, I think Rove probably did it somehow:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/10/29/1029bbdeaths.html
Here’s someone who needs Barry’s “tax cut”:
here
And now for the related; it doesn’t matter if they raise taxes man, this is all about hope and change dude and if you can’t understand that then you are fucking racist.
– Or I’ll be forced to slap a bitch.
That sounds like more empty campaign rhetoric to me.
Obama is a TAXIST!
Jeffy gettin’ uppity
Democracy isn’t supposed to feel this arbitrary I don’t think. Socialism is so oppressive like that.
Y’know at least when Germany and Russia got to go Totalitarian under their dear leaders, they got some bitchin’ parades out of it. Where are our bitchin’ parades?
Arbitrary is for our own good I think, so we get used to standing on our toes ready to shift at a moments notice. That way we’re don’t get bogged down doing anything important.
Do riots count?
If Baracky don’t get in, you’ll be seeing bitchin’ parades all over the damned place.
>>so we get used to standing on our toes
Hmm? Somebody raise the urinals again?
You’ve got urinals?
Barky’s not going to win.
He knows it, too. You think he’s spending all that loot to four-wall the networks because it’s in the bag?
Everyone here needs to read this.
Shhhhhhhh…You think he wants to have to pay the urinal taz?
Oops. taz=tax
was kinda sad to see rose kennedy wheeled out for her final spin
but-hey-she’s gonna die soon anyway-love to have her tax money/penalty for sure-i mean-we got roads to cross and bridges to fill here in mass.
then i find that teddy probated her will in fla.!
brain cancer?-is that an oxy-maroon?
he named his dog “splash”-not me..
And moldy shoes/rusty zippers. They’re too high, I tells ya!
just went out to “rent-a center”
got my pppplasma on/ssssuround sssound
peoples popcorn-water from the tap but….
no columns-
triumph of will/just a kiss away
a kiss away
wheres olly stone when ya need’em?
Anyway, I’ve been thinking about that whole ‘going Galt’ thinger and I was noticing that the characters didn’t all respond to the Looters/Moochers the same way. And some of the people who’re planning to ‘go Galt’ aren’t really doing that at all, but something that other characters did.
Like the guys that want to just use every program, hoping to collapse the system quicker. They’re doing a Ragnar Danneskjold on a small scale.
People that want to go country and leave this behind are more like Dan Conway than Galt.
It seems to me that not only did the Strikers take their production off-line, but they also refused to take anything or give anything to the rest, only to each other. Like creating a self-sustained underground economy, but on a large scale. I think only billionaires would be capable of that in total, and its just easier to move to another country, frankly. Maybe the alternative would be to seriously make a new party, with several billionaires backing it rather than just one lone fruitcake like the Reform party did.
/FWLIW
Evidently the Republican American dream is to spend too much and tax too little today so that tomorrow our children will be beggars.
How effen stupid do you think Americans are? Well, they aren’t stupid enough to believe another Republican lie about lowering taxes while running budget deficits is a genius plan for economic prosperity. You’re getting the donkey punch, because you’re a con, and that’s not an acronym.
They’ll be fewer Repubs in the House since the seventies. They’ll likely be a veto-proof Democrat Party majority in the Senate. They’ll be a a Democratic in the White House. Any other clues you “conservatives” need that America is finished listening to your economic lies?
What’cha you gonna do? Wear an extra flag pin? Buy some extra ammo? Write a willy-willy nasty screed about Obama’s mother?
How about my plan. Quit fuckin’ lying. Never ever again state the most obvious of your lies which is that to lower taxes while running budget deficits is how to best grow an economy. Grow up and pay your bills, pussies.
It was Republican stupidity got us into this mess, don’t expect America to look to a Republican to get us out of it.
Found in a rundown Boston estate: Barack Obama’s aunt Zeituni Onyango
We’re our brother‘s keeper, man, not aunties’. Oh, wait…
Yeah, that’s it. Laugh at poor African people. Every American respects those who do that.
Donkey stomped! How’s that swelling coming along?
shorter Left: the road to utopia is paved with lots of bodies and blood
When taxes get confiscatory, economy goes underground. More cash jobs, more bartering, more winks and nods between employers and employed as the IRS is akin to Prohibition Re.ven.oo.ers.
People just don’t sit still the minute taxes start going over 30% of their income.
What law was that? Hauser’s?
“It was Republican stupidity got us into this mess, don’t expect America to look to a Republican to get us out of it.”
Oh yea Republicans named: Carter, Dodd, Chuck U. Schumer, Bwarney Frwank, Barack Hussein Obama, Nancy Peosi, Harry Reid.
Maybe they should re-do that Who Wants to be a Millionaire? show, but only just tax the losers for a day at the rate millionaires get. I think the reality TV aspect would be most educational.
Baracky voters only, please.
Laugh at poor African people.
Too bad Barky hasn’t given him any hope or change, huh?
Millions for stadium shows and four-walled network ego displays.
Can’t afford to send his brother a hundred bucks a month.
I would laugh at rich African people, but all of them are dictators.
Remember when all the campus “progressives” were sucking Mugabe’s cock?
They don’t mention him much any more, for some reason.
Still not laughing, SBP
Can’t afford to send his brother a hundred bucks a month.
He gives his bro HOPE! Probably doesn’t provide a lot of calories though.
Of course, thor the lying crapweasel doesn’t mention that under the Reagan tax cuts and Bush tax cuts tax revenue increased. The problem is that when Copperhead votes have to be bought with extra spending so we can win the Cold War or go seven years without a terrorist attack on US soil or against US assets overseas instead of seven months (with luck) like under BlowJob Clinton, spending can’t be controlled to take advantage.
I’ve got a program for the next 4 years: put as many leftards as possible out of our misery.
Shorter Obama Tax Plan:
1) Soak the “rich”
2) ???
3) Profit
Also, thor, you neglect that “reducing spending” thing that got so many GOPers pissed at the Party in the first place.
“People just don’t sit still the minute taxes start going over 30% of their income.”
What the hell are you talking about?
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
What kind of underground economy was used FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE PAST 100 YEARS you nitwit?
Jesus, facts are pretty scarce around here. But folk wisdom and blind hatred of “liberals”? Full up.
Weren’t you told to go away, hooters?
Eat it.
Of course, thor the lying crapweasel doesn’t mention that under the Reagan tax cuts and Bush tax cuts tax revenue increased.
Economy after 9/11 – Bush’s fault
Katrina – Bush’s fault
thor – Bush’s fault(may as well be consistent)
And isn’t thor originally from Texas? You never know!
“How about my plan. Quit fuckin’ lying.’
That is some Change that I can believe in right there.
I wish someone would say that on C-SPAN…
I also agree that cutting taxes while spending more is dumb.
But I do think the article Jeff linked made some very good points.
Having been the owner of an S-Corp small business, I have noticed the government tends to mistake cash flow and working capital for “income”.
I had Hope that government would think I was a great guy for employing 30 people, collecting their social security and other withholdings and then sending it off to Washington…. doing that collections work for the IRS for free.
Ah… not so much.
Not that there isn’t money in it, but it was disheartening to realize I’d made only a few bucks more than my lead guy (who deserved every penny) but with 10X the risk and responsibilty.
Then when the lawyers started with the construction defects lawsuits where they literally x-ray the entire home it became too much risk for too few $$ (for me).
I won in court but that was too much.
I do not see how voting for either McCain or Obama fixes all that complex messiness, but thor… in my opinion, Obama’s plan would make things worse for those types of businesses.
last thing… thor… You articulate some good arguments between the lines. I am OK with witty jabs and a few barbs, but almost all of us here are not dumbfuck republican bootlicking racist morons. I have appreciated your wit, but not the heavy handed broad swiped insults…. and I acknowledge you have absorbed a few mean jabs yourself.
If you drop the insults you can type twice the insight in half the time… right?
Steve
“thor – I am your father!”
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
thor
I have read several articles quoting Bono and Bob Geldof who go out of their way to applaud what Bush has done in Africa…. even as they acknowledge their deep deep disagreements with Bush on the war on terror.
The LA Times recently posted an article that praised Bush for implementing steps that reduced homelessness by 30%.
I know that Bush is incredibly unpopular and during this type of election year, it is fair game to rip the heck out of the incumbent, but you can do that by sticking to the facts.
Bush has done more for Africa than Obama or McCain.
Bush has done more for the homeless than McCain or Obama.
Saying those things does not diminish Obama or McCain and although it may run against the grain to admit Bush may have done something right in 8 years, maybe try it… take a deep breath. You don’t have to apologize, just breathe deep and let it settle in…. then go back to partisanship.
have a nice evening
What the hell are you talking about?
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
The high marginal rates you show there, hoot, were paid by very few, if any. The deductions allowed reduced adjusted gross income in a big way. The deductions were eliminated in the 1986 tax reform in exchange for a flattened rate structure that greatly improved transparency (since completely fucked up by Clinton and Bush II).
And you think Obama will do away with deductions? Interesting…
You must remember this a dirty socialist bitch is just a bitch and peggy’s sigh is just a sigh but the fundamental things will still apply I think. Socialism hurts people.
This ranting about “socialism” is quaint considering the Bush administration’s actions. Quaint and yet still utterly ridiculous. Must make you sleep better at night.
Keep writing hoot. I’m not quite sleepy enough.
You will join a union and you will join a corps. Baracky and M’chelle will make you work. Everybody’s got to sacrifice.
Amalgamated Sleepers Union Local 213
Yah, yah, hoot. You forget something… and it’s something important.
For all of that century, taxes collected were to fund the Government. Even if people groused about the rate, they realized that the Government had to get money from somewhere.
You and the Obamessiah have changed all that. YOU’VE GOT MONEY! YOU’RE A BAD GUY AND WE’RE GONNA TAKE YOUR MONEY AWAY! THE REASON YOU’RE A BAD GUY IS YOU HAVE MONEY! –and then you’re gonna give the money you took to people who have never had a job, have never looked for a job, and would deliberately work to get fired if you gave them a job.
Furthermore, there may be as many as a thousand people in the United States who gain significant incomes without either working their asses off sixty or more hours a week, or deferring their pleasures for the benefit of others — factories are expensive; the way you get a factory so people can have jobs is to get rich people to kick in to build it; the process is called “investment”. There almost certainly aren’t ten thousand, most of them are either “celebrities” or sports figures, and I wanna watch when you actually manage to dig into Oprah’s stash.
Do you really suppose that you can tell a guy who’s been busting his butt to build a company, make a product, and employ people, that all that money’s “unfair” and you’re gonna take it away — and expect him to continue busting his butt? And the kicker there is that he isn’t going to miss any meals. It’s the schlubs who are trying to make house payments on $50K a year who’ll go in the tank. Oh, you’ll be able to demagogue it — you always have been; why should you fail now? — but, in the end, money makes the world go ’round. If you take it all away on grounds of “fairness” (or any other reason) the rotation stops.
Regards,
Ric
I’m thinking of unionizing tree sitters. That’s one of them green jobs, ain’t it?
I’m thinking about getting some of that victim payola by claiming my entire life is a hollow lie. Because I’m a Republican and all, I think I can make that fly.
O! Baracky! Why you be bullshitting me?
Is a flying hollow victim carbon neutral?
In a green economy, you can be subsidized!
8 years of having the intelligentsia and the idiots piling on will do that. Remember, BUSH LIED!!! HE PLAYED ON OUR FEARS!!!! HALLIBURTON!!!eleventy!!!, etc…..
Comment by hoot on 10/29 @ 7:34 pm #
listen fuckwit, if you can’t understand that people who may have paid those top rates in the way past were only doing it nominally while hiding, transferring, setting up shelters … etc … in various, sundry and imaginative ways … then you are stupider then I ever thought.
Jaysus on a fucking pony! You have the attention span of a gnat and an IQ of an afterdinner drink!
Yes, Darleen, half-wit apologist for the pseudo-capitalistss
I resent that gratuitous swipe, Madam, and I insist that you retract it immediately!
Me too. What Galliano said.
The underground economy is up and running here very nicely…. went to pick up the car from the mechanic’s shop and was told… the bill is $400, but if I pay cash $320. “Obama discount?” Answer “You Betcha!!! Gotta reduce the income somehow…”
Those afterdinner drink guys is pretty smoove
cynn, thor, and hoot: just plain half-wits who haven’t a clue among them about how the economy actually works, but think they know how to make it “fair”.
cynn
how’s that O! cult wagon you climbed on? cuz it’s not like you really know anything about him, but the wheels are so purty and so many beeoootiful people are climbed on before you.
bmeuppls
Yep. I foresee cash and barter on the increase.
I will be getting my Burpee Seed Catelogue sometime in December. Starting next spring I’m sure all the extra stuff from the garden will bring a little cash or trade.
My Victory over Obama Garden.
I ain’t growing no garden unless I get farm subsidies.
I ain’t growing no garden unless I get farm subsidies.
Which, ironically, will most likely qualify you for such a subsidy!
I’m thinking of starting getting one of those traveling funnel cake/falafel/fair food traveltrailer things. My SIL has a friend who has one and she CLEARS $7,000 a weekend. In CASH. She goes to festivals and outdoor concerts and stuff every weekend.
Most of these things you should probably do anyway when Baracky loses I think. If Baracky wins you’re screwed and you will sacrifice. Him and M’chelle will see to it. This country will never be what it could have been. That’s just how growth curves work.
Darleen… love it!!!
I would have to cut down lots of trees to have enough sunlight for a garden…. on second thought, that’s a feature, not a bug! Count me in on the Victory gardening. I think it should have only veggies that aren’t red, though…
bmeuppls
Think outside the box with gardening… it doesn’t have to be some plot. Raised beds are easily tended can be put anywhere and are much more productive (especially for root veggies… they are in nice soft earth that gets warmer because its in a raised bed). You can do tomatoes, peppers, zuchinni in pots, herbs in flower boxes.
I don’t get enough sun anywhere except right in the middle of the backyard and then only for about 2 hours or so. I would have to do some serious tree cutting to do anything. We had raised beds when we first moved in 20 years ago, but the trees weren’t all grown like they are now. The only things that grow well are hostas and ferns. I have lots of hosta varieties, but veggies don’t have a chance anymore. I even tried a pot of tomatoes on the driveway this year, just to see if it would work… still not enough sun. Shade is not necessarily a bad thing in the south, but I think we over did it…
I agree about the underground and “black market” economies.
I am in a unique position to see how different project owners approach their construction budgets. some want to bypass the licensed, worker comp paying, tax deducting, I-9 asking company. They go around them to skilled illegals and the cash economy.
Taxes on business will drive some jobs underground. More jobs will go underground if health insurance is mandated and put on the employer to collect.
The legit employer will; hypothetically, be at let’s say $100,000 for labor.
The illegal can charge $60,000 and still make $$$. But things being as they are, the illegal will actually charge $85,000 and try to edge out an extra $25K, making an illegal business way more profitable than being legal.
At some tipping point, legal businesses decide to go with the flow
I had to take out a few cedars to really make our big garden in Alabama go.
Cedar makes a good (and very fragrant) firestarter, but I hear the creosote is not good. We sold that place, though, so I never found out how bad the creosote problem really was.
Oh. The garden was spectacular, after that. Ruby red chard! Zipper cream peas! Tomatoes and corn and squash and beans and potatoes!
Now we make do with raised beds. We can still do the zippercream pea thing, but it’s much more fun when you have basically unlimited space, and can afford to laugh while they take over the world. Now, we tear out our hair as the sweet potatoes take over the lawn and leave baby potatoes all over the place when you uproot the vines.
So that we all may see what the wheels of the O! cult wagon look like, please post a picture of the tread marks in your backside next Tuesday.
thor seems to have this preoccupation with backsides, sight unseen. It’s disturbing, really, but so is the fact that thor isn’t in a padded room somewhere, wearing a very long-sleeved shirt.
If you implying we’re Redumblicans, that’s so out of bounds.
Thor, while I can’t speak for Pablo, I believe he had an outstanding thousand dollar wager offer with you.
Whatever happened with that?
[…] facts on Obama’s Tax Plan Posted on October 29, 2008 by sharprightturn From Protein Wisdom, a preview of Andrew Boucher’s column for the Fort Collins Now weekend edition.  Andrew […]
Underground economies develop as soon as the cost of compliance exceeds that of ‘protection.’ This degree of corruption is currently only seen in the US in heavy Democrat/Union/organized crime enclaves, e.g. Chicago. Getting to the current status quo in those precincts was not a bloodless process. We shoud not expect it to be any less so when these practices go nationwide.
None of which should be surprising to anyone. After all, what is the history of marxism/socialism in actual practice? Nothing more than criminal enterprise on a national scale.
I hear next Tuesday is the start of hayseed planting season.
O!
I use cedar mulch instead of pinestraw in all of my hosta beds. Love the smell (especially after a rain storm), and it keeps the bugs away.
He wanted to bet a 1000 Mexican jumping beans. I didn’t want to take the food off his table.
He wanted to bet one thousand U.S. dollars.
You pussed out.
Thor’s garden is behind Motel Hell.
I’m not interested in being cute, sparing with thor or playing semantic word games. All of you need to worry about what we infrequent commentators do not say. We don’t whine much, we don’t complain, we don’t say much at all, and we don’t pretend to argue against what the idiots here suggest is necessary to implement their socialist agenda. But, go ahead, elect the communist, put your plans into action and watch how the rest of us sabotage, screw up, destroy, and subtley undermine whatever you attempt to initiate. Give it your best shot, and understand that I will do everything in my power to undermine and destroy whatever you attempt. FUCK YOU and the horse you rode in on. It is war. I will do anything to screw you over, get in your face, destroy whatever you try, and fuck you in the ear. It is time to stop being nice and reasonable. That doesn’t work. Up yours!!! Sure, stop by my house and try to reason with me. I’ll blow your fucking brains out! Capice?
capice…uhhh
trick or treat?
You mean stop by you’re bunker, MikeD, because an underground bunker isn’t called “a house,” it’s called the dark hole-place where the angry man hides and where he keeps his many Habitrail units tubed together so that his gerbils can exercise by roaming from plexiglass box to box. Shamwow!
Spooked ya, didn’t I.
Didn’t the Dems already try this raising taxes on the actual taxpayers kind of thing with the luxury tax on yachts? If memory serves, all they managed to do was get a place in the unemployment line for scads of middle class people who built yachts for a living.
um, JD, did ya read the post?
No, maggie, I did not. The little one woke me up, and I was just skimming the comments. I just went and read it and now I feel like an idiot.
heh. I was gonna ask about the tiny one. was looking through my pictures last night and came across one of the blanket.
She cut her first tooth on Wednesday. She is now 22 pounds, and is in like the 127 percentile in height, the only attribute which I appear to have contributed to her. She said dadadadadadadadadadadadada this evening, which I took to mean Daddy, and have been strutting around the house all night saying that she said my name first. I am an ass.
Wherever you may be on the political spectrum, I wish you well.
Sometimes you do everything right with the resources you have and you still end up in a horrible place.
Sometimes, life is just really hard and you try and do the right thing, and you still you may sink
And might I add, I am usually a relentleslly cheerful person. I always try to look at things from a bright perspective. I want the world to be good.
And no matter what, I mostly always think the world is good.
But sometimes life is just hard.
And I’m sober right now! I’m going to change that in a hurry now!
Good thing I’m not the suicidal type. There should be a late nite feature here.
I am MikeD! (#91)
jesus jamrat, you took up a comment # for that?
I am lunarpuff. Please reference #99, #100, and #1
Didn’t thor say he had a trust fund, and made a ton of cash in the market? Or is this just more of his bullshit.
Maybe he can’t pay up because he’s have to ask his mom for the money.
Thor is beginning to look a lot like Cartman, without the sense of humor.
Rusty, you mean like this.
1. You people have made my point for me. There will continue to be people who do not pay the straight line tax rate for their tax bracket. What a revelation. I am one of those people. So are you. That has nothing to do with Obama. Stop repeating this deeply stupid “socialist” mantra. It is embarrassing.
2. MikeD is totally bonkers. I think there is an intersection of the mindless “us against them” rhetoric pushed by proteinwisdom.com, the McCain campaign, talk radio, other wingnut blogs, etc… and the total desperation of a person watching his tribe being marginalized. You can do something about both factors and it doesn’t involve waiting for an internet troll at your house, gun in hand. Grow the fuck up, take some responsibility for your movement, and improve your lot in life. Life is too short to threaten people on the internet for chrissakes.
I think there is an intersection of the mindless …
And you reached it! STFU and take your banishing!!!
Shorter hoot & thor:
I despise you, fellow commenters, because I, being a leftist collectivist envier-thief, naturally cannot articulate a position of any kind and compensate with rage and projection. Retaining a vestige of the human species, this naturally discomforts me greatly. From there, I despise you because Obama the Socialist is indeed just such a Socialist, which I know and dearly appreciate, but Bush didn’t deliver on conservativism, damn you all. The blinding illogic of all this cognitive dissonance powers a derangement syndrome that entitles me to shit on pw without shame.
There you have it, folks. It’s actually not that short but then it is complex. These cowards should use the same abuse on the host they do elsewhere and see how long they survive when expressing such a profound level of habitual incivility.
Thor’s not going to be happy when he reads that. Seen him sandpaper a man’s nose clear off for less than that.
Grow the fuck up, take some responsibility for your movement, and improve your lot in life.
You know who can’t see themselves in mirrors? Vampires.
And hoot.
“rage and projection”? Is there such a thing as double projection?
I’d like to see how long MikeD survives in the real world when shooting people who come to his door. Man, this place is nutso.
Here you go, hoot. thor let himself down so he’s suffering his defeat in semi-silent shame. Except for the screaming rage and the Calvino, I mean.
https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=13106
I don’t know, hoot. Is there such a thing as pathological dishonesty? A life of evasions?
Cowardice?
hoot, find the differences between this platform and the current Democrat platform:
http://www.slp.org/pdf/platforms/plat1887.pdf
Reality Check
I love how that “us against them line” only seems to be thrown out when it is going against left wing policies.
Evil Rovian tactis=bad news
Big Oil/Boooosh/Large corporations/you are all racists=all well and good
Fuck you hoot.
Thor’s not going to be happy.
You could have stopped right there.
Shorter hoot: It is only “politics of division” when you are voting Republican.
Retaining a vestige of the human species, this naturally discomforts me greatly.
You are being far too charitable. Yeah, I know, it’s a rhetorical device…
Heh.
http://jimtreacher.com/archives/001828.html
Well, it appears that no one has been able to offer any criticisms of the linked piece. Thor’s addition was to point out that the Rethuglians ran up a huge debt (I thought that was called bipartisianship?), glossing over the fact that Obama’s hope and change for the future is going to put us even deeper in debt. Didn’t really deal with the piece, did he? Kinda just propped up a straw man …
cynn’s criticism was to take a jab at the conservative’s use of the word socialism -it’s the new MEME! And hoot mentioned that people dealt perfectly fine with higher taxes in the past and we’ll do it again!
WELL DONE. You’ve completely dismantled the presented arguments.
Why is it not one of the liberals in this thread even addressed Obama’s tax plan. Not one said anything of substance in defense of it. In fact, other than Obama’s people, I haven’t heard a liberal who could articulate a response to the counter argument, that increasing taxes on small/medium size business would have a significant effect on middle and low income americans. I tried the trickle down argument, as I figured water would be a s imple enough analogy for liberals to understand WHERE in fact, the money comes from- it comes from the people who produce, whether on their own or by running a business. Another respnose I got was “well we’ll all be getting a tax cut, cause we’re middle class”. Yes, but what happens when your employer has the crap taxed out of him and your raise the following year is pitiful or non-existant. When your bonuses for performance go away completey. When your benefits shrink so the “working poor” can have free health care.
I’m convinced the vast majority of people supporting Obama are doing so because eiither they think its going to be a free ride of them, while living off the so called “wealthy” or because they are rich white folks who have been guilted into thinking its our problem as Americans to individually solve the problems of all Americans, whether those Americans deserve it or not.
Please liberals, articulate a counter argument. Show me how I’m wrong. Explain to me how taxing the crap out of me is going to help my secretary, when she comes and begs for a raise and I tell her there will be no raises because the company can’t afford it, due to the new tax increases.
It’s ’cause they got nothing, Matt.
You’ve defined the problem of the 51 percent, Matt, Esq. It has no intellectual defense. For it to stand there cannot be. Up until the point the nation flatly admits it hates it’s personal rights and freedoms, the 51 percent problem exists as subterfuge. After that point the nation admits defeat.
We’re at that point.
Socialism, as ‘feets reminds us, is merely legislated theft. What’s impressive is that in a country suddenly awash in the S-word, justifiably, O! has never denied his authoritarian-redistributionist reputation and record. Apparently he knows we’re at that point too.
thor says he’s gonna have him a gloatfest Tuesday, Carin. Because of the sheer self-evident elegance and justice of the Democrat platform circa 2008/9. That and it’s amazing service to founding principles.
FOR THE CONSTITUTION, McBUSHCOIMPERIALISTAGGRESSORS!
Have The Audacity to Ask Why and get a poll jammed in your face, leeringly. That’s convincing.
It seems hoot ran off.
Fucking.hoot.
My guess about all of Obama’s college friends being dead (which sent hoot into a tizzy rivaled only by Elton John at a Singapore music festival when his Life Partner is flirting with the wig-guy) was off the mark. Turns out Obama’s 2 Occidental roommates are Palestinians who are now heading up his Get Out The Dough program.
hoot, your full-diaper tantrums are so telling of your low self-esteem, and your anger-management-class-failure. Keep ’em coming. They’re gold.
Comment by hoot on 10/30 @ 5:49 am #
Proof that stupidity is boundless.
Hoot doesn’t understand that the way you get people to comply with the system, is making the system actually FAIR. When Reagan swept through the taxcode, eliminating loopholes and simplifying and LOWERING the tax brackets into the area that the vast majority of people think of as fair (there have been numerous polls that indicate people put that at around 20% for EVERYONE including the dastardly “rich”) revenue streamed into the Feds, a great percentage of it because of willing compliance with the tax rules.
When people see they are being treated unfairly, when the Democrats are upfront in declaring that people don’t first right to their own earnings, then it’s “fuck you, looter” and move into cash economy.
Jesus Keeerist…the Dems are already salivating over stealing everyone’s 401k!
#107 hoot — your point no. 1: No, that’s not it at all. Let me tell you an absolutely true story.
Early spring, 1981. The boss of my division gathered me, a few other employees, and half a dozen clients and potential clients, and led us all down the street from the Washington Hilton to a restaurant that isn’t there any more, the property having changed hands many times since. We showed up around 9:00 PM, and stayed, eating, drinking, laughing, and talking about business and everything else under the sun, until the place closed at 2:00 AM. The tab came to over $2,000; John smiled, added a $500 tip, signed the American Express slip, and we all left — and when the time came, the bursar paid AMEX for the charge with not a qualm, because every penny was deductible as a “business dinner entertaining clients.” The restaurant made about a quarter of its monthly nut, and two happy waiters made their mortgage payments (houses were cheaper then), just from us.
Nowadays? Hah. When I’m on the road I have to ask the clerk at McDonalds for a receipt, and out of the $5 bill for a burger and fries I can only deduct two bucks. The tax reforms of the Eighties reduced the rates in exchange for eliminating most deductions and making most “perks” taxable, for corporations as well as individuals. (We used to be able to deduct all interest, including that on consumer credit cards, for instance, and a company car simply didn’t exist for tax purposes.) The net result was an increase in tax collections, which Congress, as usual, spent immediately. Twice, in fact.
You and your fellows appear to have this fixed notion in your minds that you can increase taxes and nothing else will change — that everybody will continue to do exactly as they do now, so the amounts subject to tax will stay the same. That will not happen. People will change their behavior so as to minimize the taxes they have to pay, both legally and illegally. That’s what the so-called “Laffer curve” is all about. The result will be the worst of both worlds — tax collections will decrease (perhaps after an initial increase, before people have time to change behavior) and the incomes of waiters, groundskeepers, car mechanics, and others whose main income comes from people higher up the economic chain will go down, in many cases to zero. You will have more unemployment benefits and welfare to pay with less money.
No, reducing rates to zero won’t generate infinite revenue. Don’t be stupider than you can help.
If you really want to increase tax revenue, get rid of the thicket of stupid piddling nitpicking regulations. Expenses for a tax preparer are fully deductible, and that, right now, comes to just under $200 per taxpayer, on average. Reducing the form to a page or so and the instruction book in proportion would save a bundle for everybody including the Government.
But keep in mind: nobody, but nobody, including your fellows and supporters, believe you intend to use one penny of that revenue for reducing the debt. You’re going to spend it all, twice, just as the Congress of 1984 did.
Regards,
Ric
hoot claims everyone has made his point in 5, 4, 3,…
A quick thought.
What will be the reaction if a Dem congress and Prez go after peoples 401k’s? I do not think people will take that lightly.
I mean nationalizing oil companies is one thing, but going into peoples bank accounts or personal retirement accounts and nationalizing them is quite another.
O! will dispatch Joey Hairplugs to eloquently pontificate it to be patriotic, and the oceans will recede, the planet will heal, and unicorns, rainbows…it’s all good!
What will be the reaction if a Dem congress and Prez go after peoples 401k’s? I do not think people will take that lightly.
They will be too busy going after your guns, freedom, and white wimminfolk to bother with your 401k.
They’re gonna take away my guns!!!
Rick. hoot’s immune to logic. To fact. History. Reality.
Under O!, Things Shall Be As They Are Intended to Be. That is all.
And Bush Derangement Syndrome, I mean.
(For crying out loud, the Pelosireid Congress just threw an election for a boy that, trust me, at least one of the arch-liberals that infest the halls of power will, one day and in a 187th-page NYT mention, express his/her regret at having put into highest office by way of their first wrecking the place, the very guy who turned around and gutted their career like a fish, if only by sheer political attrition — these ancient, corrupt, old-school hill Dems have little idea how the young ideologue will, at best, make them look like old center-right establishmentarians.
They know not now what they do. Nor do our trolls. No vision, no functional sense of history or concern about baser human nature, only opportunism. It’s why they’re where they are, the congress-liars and the trolls both.)
Lisa I know you are trying to be sarcastic here but the first examples you give are their stated intentions. Whether you want to admit that or not, and they have also been giving public statements about possible taking over 401k’s. White wommenfolk are probably safe.
I slept with a black woman once does that give me any street cred?
And Lisa roars by on the denial express, never bothering to investigate her candidate’s visible record of lifelong political opposition to either personal rights and property, or the Second Amendment to the very Constitution he’ll next swear to uphold.
This you cannot make up. This dysfunction is in full flower.
JHoward, I am not in denial at all, toots. I am quite sure he is going to utilize the national government in ways that will make your conservative balls shrivel. That is why I am voting for him.
Squee!!
The fundamentally flawed Constitution he’ll swear to uphold.
I slept with a black woman once does that give me any street cred?
Ask thor, copulation gave him some sort of marxist/socialist credibility! Go ahead, he’ll tell you, and piss on your cornflakes while doing it!
That totally gives you street cred, pink. You can now write a rap song about big booties with total authority.
Rick, as you surely know, the mazes and thickets of all forms of legislation in this day and age make anything approaching a free, unfettered, profitable operation of markets a near impossibility. So we blame them when these manipulations, frauds, and short-circuitings naturally go haywire, even as they have under the Pelosireid Twelve Percent Congress.
How in the name of heaven we’ll respect ourselves enough to prevent a radical racist redistributionist gaining the Presidency when we haven’t even bothered to keep our local townhalls and statehouses clean is anybody’s guess.
Well unlike him I still have old Eazy E and Wutang CD’s in my car and do not go around telling people they are racist if they disagree with me.
That totally gives you street cred, pink. You can now write a rap song about big booties with total authority.
Lisa, you got Shug Knight’s phone number, otherwise Pink will be gettin’ the Rob Van Winkle treatment!
With your obviously limited field of vision and scope of reason, I won’t argue with you about that pride, Lisa.
Mr Pink – I doubt you’re going to get that street cred from thor. Your copulation with a black chick was merely you living out your racist (and a tad misogynist) “jungle fever” fantasies. You should be ashamed, and prolly forced to pay some sort of reparation.
I asked another resident lefty on here where they get the mentality that it is morally correct to take money from me and give it to other people JHoward. I did not ever get a response. My guess is bad parenting.
Shriveled balls are a plus when running away from Obama’s storm troopers. If you’re at full July-ballsack while trying to avoid a truncheon to the head, the constant swinging, bouncing, racking and rattling of your nuts will slow your foot-speed considerably. FYI.
I think people forget it’s not Baracky voters what are the problem, just Baracky. His voters, the for real ones, they’re mostly just buying the t-shirt I think and they’ll wear it long long after he loses. That’s when Baracky will become infinitely more valuable as a might have been than as a for real dangerous hopey changey dirty socialist what anyone would want to give actual power to. They loves their pop icons, these ones. I would have to sacrifice and sacrifice I think to get where my life and head was that empty, mostly just cause even George Bush who I love a lot, he doesn’t validate me. People what need their president to validate them are unstable I think. Dimbulb lardasses like Scott McClellan come to mind. Jeez. I’ve squandered some opportunity here and there but those McClellans are fucking epic.
Lisa
They ARE after your 401k. If your earnings or property are not really yours, if they really belong to the state, what does that make you?
But Carin, isn’t that state acting as, well, church? I’m confused about that whole separation clause thing, then, if all moral authority falls to the State.
Vindicated.
Al, that’s a little too well thought out! Just saying.
Theft used to be a crime, Pink. Thankfully we have progressive intentionalism to finally sort semantic shit like that out, no?
NG, Baracky voter, she loves loves loves the Bob Marley. I asked her the other day hey what’s a buffalo soldier? Bless her heart.
Thread-winner.
If I payed her some sort of reparations for sleeping with me that would probably be illegal in some states. That would probably also mean I was really bad at it.
If I payed her some sort of reparations for sleeping with me that would probably be illegal in some states. That would probably also mean I was really bad at it.
Pink, if you bought dinner and a movie, you already paid reparations. Call it bartering, and all is well.
Al, that’s a little too well thought out! Just saying.
Perhaps. But a man who does not keep his balls in his thoughts at all times, is most likely an Obama voter. I mean look at Michelle. I’m guessing Barry’s balls are hidden in one of those crown-shaped air-fresheners somewhere in Michelle’s no-go zone.
Shit. I went over my hyphen quota again.
BTW, if you’re really bad at it, you may be eligible for a subsidy, or tenure.
I call the top bunk in the re-education camp!!
Check. “I believe the DC gun ban is Constitutional, and will not be overturned.” -Barack Obama, 2/2/2008
Check.
That one I didn’t know about. Got a link?
Bzzzzt. “It is going to be part of the president’s job to deal with more than one thing at once.” Barack Obama – 9/25/08
Ric
Some co-workers and I were just talking about the return of the expense account. Maybe even the per-diem and the company car.
The accounting major will be back, baby!
It just struck me:
Ayn Rand was a fucking prophet.
Pablo:
All your 401k’s are belong to us. No retirement to Boca Raton for you. We have a lovely work camp, er uh I mean time-share for you in Cuba. It’ll be great!
I don’t mind a timeshare, as long as I don’t have to timeshare the toilet.
My ass has a wide stance.
There are times when I really need to read those comments back to myself before clicking “Say It.”
There is strong pull from the “Say It” button.
Ayn Rand was a fucking prophet.
Ha ha ha!!!
Thats funny.
McGehee, LMAO!!
You rule. I needed that giggle.
“Comment by Lisa on 10/30 @ 11:35 am #
Ayn Rand was a fucking prophet.
Ha ha ha!!!
Thats funny.”
Yeah. You don’t get it, do you?
I remember when I thought….
So why did you give it up?
orders from Phil Graham.
A working government is a necessary evil. Put other peoples money where your mouth is you dirty socialist.
hoot, expecting everyone to believe as you do is not evidence of maturity. Just the opposite, I think…
Glad to be of service, you big thinker you. Your problem is that you are just a liar, pretending that people here are arguing against taxes period. You do that so you don’t have to get into where the real differences are, in what the government has a right to spend on, and in whether it is the right mechanism to do the “social” spending in the first place.