Full transcript available here.
My verdict? Barack Obama is to the presidency what an elevator is to an outhouse. I’ll let you all suss out why that is.
It’s like a puzzle!
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
- In The Mailbox: 12.23.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll truly IS a sad, embittered psychopath
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I can’t figger it out!
/brain hurtz
Well, we all know the O!’s elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top floor.
What I learned last night was just how tepid Baracky and Baracky’s media’s whole McCain = Bush narrative is. They invested so much in that. The media already burned its ginormous investment in Hillary, now their biggest meme this cycle is shown to be feckless. But God help us when they figure out how to do this more better.
Elevator: Hydraulic or Cable?
Outhouse: Pine or Oak?
As to going to the top floor, isn’t it more appropriate to know if it goes to the sub-basement?
Does it have something to do with:
The outhouse elevator might be nice and all, with lovely elevator music playin’ inside, but in the end it can only take you to a Sh*tty place???
or
An elevator for your outhouse might be nice, but it can only let you down in the end???
or
What good is an elevator for your outhose if the only other stop is the cess-pool???
I give up, already…
Like urthshu, my brain is starting to hurt…
Well also geoffb I think the tenor of last night’s debate means expectations of these debates being game-changey are diminished. The polling at this stage of the race suggests that this is a very good thing for Senator McCain. Baracky peaked too soon. Debates is just accretive overexposure now.
Do you mean that Barry is vital to the proper functioning of a multi-storied outhouse and that an elevator is demanded by the ADA? Why not just use ramps instead?
The presidency is a one person job to get rid of the crap alone.
Obama will have a crowd along to make his decisions and carry his crap everywhere he goes.
happyfeet,
How did you respond before I commented?
Do you know there are 47 million people in America w/o an outhouse?
Oh, from the other thread, now I see.
As in the higher it goes, the more people get shit on?
“Do you know there are 47 million people in America w/o an outhouse?”
But do they have elevators, and do those run to the top floor? Inquiring minds.
Sorry. That was rambunctious. It’s just the whole debate thing was very cheering I thought. Whenever I think my little country is not going to plummet off the black liberation socialism precipice I get a little giddy is all. The Baracky Chavez regime is more and more an alternative history hypothetical I think.
>>Debates is just accretive overexposure now.
Maybe excretive overexposure
Elevator in a outhouse…it don’t belong? (a Roadhouse reference perhaps? “Calling me sir is like putting an elevator in an outhouse. It don’t belong.”)
I’ve noticed many complaints in the middling conservative blogosphere over McCain’s failure, in too many instances to count, to have chased down Obama on Obama’s various sophistries, equivocations, outright falsehoods, vague claims, etc.
Worst among these, it seems to me, is McCain’s evident belief that he must abandon any attempt to reason through the decision chain and justifications (even now proving out in ground truth) that led to the Iraq, I assume on the grounds that President Bush has been so thoroughly vilified in common talk and opinion that any effort to overcome those many falsehoods about Bush and our entry as a Nation into that battlezone isn’t under those circumstances, can’t be, worth the trouble.
The widespread public hatred and/or weariness of Pres. Bush and of mounting a defence of him is taken by McCain as a “political” fact of the matter, despite the obvious weakness of the historical revision being done on its behalf.
That is the only way I can understand McCain’s acquiesence at Obama’s imperious booming:
And McCain’s immediate answer? :
That’s just weak. He makes no defense of the fundamental question at all, except in the passing reference to “…fight for Iraqi freedom and American freedom…”. And that is a shorthand too damned short.
Maybe I should shorten what I said.
Presidency is a 1 person job. Obama is holds a group inside that is going along for the ride.
Perhaps I channeled thor and tried to work in the excrement bit.
Baracky’s media has taken Iraq off the table though. That was just a okay we’ll talk about it cause this is the foreign policy debate thing. Iraq has devolved to a price tag is all, and it is what it is. Baracky’s constant invocation of the price tag and Iraq’s current surplus was a shameless denigration of a hard-won ally in a part of the world where allies are very special and rare. If he thinks Afghanistan is positioned to be a more better ally he is a very silly man I think.
“Barack Obama is to the presidency what an elevator is to an outhouse.” You mean Barack is useless, unless you want a ride down to a world of shit?
Precisely, hf, Barack makes into nothing the truths that held men’s minds at the time of decision. AND GETS AWAY WITH IT.
McCain had ideas and opinions at the time of decision. McCain’s ideas and opinions at that time did not necessarily coincide with President Bush’s own. And yet, McCain is reluctant to even broach the subject (albeit, perhaps wisely reluctant, in a practical sense) of his own stance at the time. That cannot be a good thing I think, to hide from himself, to hide from the rest of us, what exactly was going on in his mind as he approved of the decision to go to war with Saddam and his regime.
Elevator to an outhouse: Same shape, similar dimensions, but one’s full of crap.
Sdferr
But as you mentioned, he [McCain] would have had to go through the logic train, answer each assertion, lose time, and give credence to the points. First, never be drawn into the defensive. Second, he destroyed O!’s entire assertion when he pointed out the lack of understanding/ difference between tactics and strategy (although that may be inside baseball). Finally, McCain was able to show that he is intimate with the situation, been in theater, knows the generals, etc. He had already mentioned how early he had visited, and already called for change.
Really, he is able to differentiate himself from Bush by pointing out how much the Party disliked him the last 8 years actually.
I think you’re missing the point I’m trying to make Rich, though perhaps I haven’t put it well enough.
Any talk about what happens after the decision Obama calls into question (Bush’s decision to go and McCain’s decision to support him) does not answer Obama’s assertion. In fact, it gives Obama’s assertion unwarranted strength. It is almost worse than a poor answer because it cedes the field by default. Everybody with half a brain can see that McCain is unwiling to do there. Why not, they may ask themselves? Is he afraid? Does he know think, has he changed his mind wihtout telling us, that the original decision was faulty, and that he’s being stubborn not admitting it, much as he has just accused Obama of doing with regard to the Surge?
go there, now think,
sorry
“It’s like a puzzle!”
I’m beginning to think it’s a Rorschach.
Sdferr, I knew what you meant, but your condensing of the point is good… yet I also believe McCain’s tack (actually both campaign’s) has been to just throw things out and allow the spin.
McCain was not going to take the bait. I think he did the right thing to dismiss the whole assertion, actually call it all into question really, and leave the specifics (point for counterpoint) in a way and time of their/his choosing.
— caveat- we are a little closer to the storyline here… we pay attention and also know the fuller story. The casual voter was either not watching, paying close enough attention to make a difference, or already forgotten. We also will be very quick to see the worst in our candidate… a little of the Cubs fan syndrome perhaps (of which I am one). And also, it is easy to analyze now, with time and consideration, nor without scripted points that we have to make.
It is all frustrating, that is for certain. And I have no doubt that after rolling off Cindy he thought of a number of things he could have said to really smash O! down a few pegs.
“Any talk about what happens after the decision Obama calls into question (Bush’s decision to go and McCain’s decision to support him) does not answer Obama’s assertion. “
Obama is “Monday morning quarterbacking” with his “question”. An answer like what you talk of is an after the fact rationalization. I see this.
The problem now is that, due to all the (mostly) unchallenged lies, by the Democrats, the moonbats, and the MSM about why we went into Iraq, any answer is a “tar baby” that will immobilize the campaign in a quagmire made by the Left’s innumerable lies.
The Left has used Alinsky’s Rule 8 ( “Keep the pressure on. Never let up. Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new”) successfully on the Iraq war for the past 5 years. It has become a topic that is impossible to reasonably discuss because there are now no common premises to ground a discussion.
McCain answering that question is like engaging a troll in comments. Obama asking it is an example of Alinsky’s #12,“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it”.
In my opinion, YMMV.
One is a little room you shit in. One is a shitty little room.
Both elevator and outhouse have 8 letters.
8 turned on its side is the symbol of infinity.
Thus: we are going to be putting up with shat & things going up an down – sometimes controlled by us and sometimes controlled by other people pushing our buttons – for all eternity.
QED.
Part of McCain’s reluctance to “go for the throat” has to be his awareness that Copperhead Media is just waiting for him to raise his voice so they can jump up and down screaming “we told you he is just a vessel of primal rage who will push the button if his coffee arrives cold!!!!!!!!”.
How many times have the Copperheads trotted out Barry Goldwater’s “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice” as proof positive that “conservative fascists” want to ship all of them off to Gitmo?
McCain needs to address Obama’s idea that the “real” war on terror is in Afghanistan, or turns on killing Bin Laden, while our engagement in Iraq is a distraction, even today. Although he lamented Obama’s inability to see the connection (and his refusal to deal with the present situation because rejected the war), McCain could have done a lot more with it.
Obama said the reason our soldiers didn’t die in vain in Iraq was because they were taking orders from their commanding officers. Huh? All he’s willing to concede is that they did a good job fighting for something he has deemed utterly pointless and unnecessary. How does that “honor” anyone? He still gets away with vacuous lines that “sound” respectful but are completely meaningless.
I find it sad but true that as a short term practical matter McCain (or anyone in his position, really) would have to adopt a stance either of acceding to the false proposition or passing it by without comment. That stance, however, cannot make other ancillary (and quite possibly very important) questions any easier to answer truthfully or even, on their own terms, practically.
The potential temporary nature of the capture of public opinion by this false and hollow meme (assertions by Obama that Bush’s decision vis a vis Iraq was the wrong decision and Obama’s alternate reality is the right one) doesn’t help the impending decision making of that same polity and its leaders with regard to new security risks and challenges to come.
The truth of the Iraq front will be told (eventually) by events in Iraq (and elsewhere in the Arab and Muslim world) that prove the original decision to have been a good and warranted one.
Let’s hope that those events come soon. Otherwise, in a crunch, we may find that we get it wrong based on a flippant and unnecessarily emotional conclusion resulting in terrible miscalculation.
edit: Obama actually said, “No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they’re carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they’ve provided. Our troops have performed brilliantly.”
My point is the same, though.
missions of their commander in chief
He conveniently overlooks an overwhelming vote of support by Congress, without which, the commander in chief can do little.
meh, they were lied to. well, all the Democrats were anyway.
But that sucks us back into a “who got us here” debate, which McCain would do well to avoid. I want Obama to admit that he actually does believe our soldiers have died in vain in Iraq. That is clearly his position, and I think he should be made to own it. I’m willing to grant him his premise in order to do so, frankly.
Let’s pretend the invasion was completely without merit, but we now find ourselves fighting Al Qaeda there due to our own errors in judgment. He shouldn’t be allowed to keep yammering about where the “real” war is, or suggesting that there’s a meaningful difference between fighting Al Qaeda in Baghdad versus Kabul.
actually, I tend to think a better tack is pointing out that the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan is relying on our European allies and now Obama is ready to throw them under the bus.
Oh, but you did have just such a difference, Sen Obama, unless you have no idea how to count votes in your caucus prior to the actual tally, for, as any other Senator could tell you, there were plenty of Democrat Senators on board with the non-timetable bill to assure its passage and thus assure that it, and not your silly timetable bill would be the bill to fund the troops and permit the troops to execute a winning strategy. Putz.
maggie – I was disappointed that they didn’t address NATO. Obama is now talking tough about getting Europeans to step up in Afghanistan, so a question that addressed our supposed allies in this war would have been useful.
Baracky is a lot confident that Europe won’t be a problem I think. They’re on the same team.
They both got the 28′ jumpshot, but no inside game at all.
Aren’t we pretty?, they ask.
This elevator only goes to the basement and someone made an awful mess down there.
-Grandpa Simpson.
In an outhouse, the excrement goes down.
In an elevator, everything goes down.
Derek
“but no inside game at all”
VP’s are the inside game. Sarah was a point guard.
@ 39 et.al., regarding the timetable.
I have mentioned since later 2003 as things began to slow down that the US would be, and had to, prepare for the longterm… that the war desired was not going to be an easy narrative or even front page affair. Indeed, it was a product of a sustained ideological battle and would not be easy to explain. In short, it was not an HBO Miniseries.
And life at home continued. There were no shortages… the NFL played a full schedule…. new sitcoms came and went. But the Short Term memory of america was not satiated. What? The war was still going on? That was so last year. It is like it has been going on a lifetime….
Let there be no doubt. AQ knows that the media and left leaning politicians are there best ally. They only have had to play a waiting game. The American public does not have the patience or attention span to wait long. This is where the danger in O!’s timetable is most evident. He is willing to pander to the CW and perception of the CW… all for his own self interests. Or what he has been told are his self interests.
here
[…] Jeff G. wrote an interesting post today onMcCain-Obama debateHere’s a quick excerptFull transcript available here. My verdict? Barack Obama is to the presidency what an elevator is to an outhouse. I’ll let you all suss out why that is. It’s like a puzzle! … [visit site to read more] […]
Outhouse, elevator — even in the best-case scenario, we still get the shaft.
‘Cause you’ll never find a diamond ring if you fall down an elevator shaft?
who the fuck puts an elevator in their outhouse?
I don’t have huge theories other than the elevator going in the wrong direction for the job at hand. His long list of inviolate government programs when asked how the bailout might curtail his plans comes to mind.
Why does Senator Obama call Senator McCain “John” all the time, while Senator McCain calls Senator Obama Senator Obama? All the rest of the people in my focus group said that Senator McCain was disrespecting Senator Obama.
An outhouse is where all the shit goes down. In an elevator, nothing happens but awkward, trivial conversation.
… yeah .. let’s take a look …
Last time I checked, the President was not Secretary Of State.