Here, available online for the first time, is a brief excerpt from a 1999 interview with the late great Lou Thesz on Tony Cecchine and his place in catch wrestling.
Mr Thesz, who died over half a decade ago now, remained close with Tony until his death. And though the two never engaged in any business dealings, Thesz endorsed Cecchine — and testified to his expertise in hooking (a rarity in these circles) — without reservation, and with the pride of one content to know his art would live on.
Not that many of you are interested in this stuff. But posting this here should help it get some play. And that’s a plus in the business Tony’s in — and in which I’m training.
I follow along.
I’d call that an endorsement. Seems like a nice guy.
Wrestling is a young man’s sport. Relies mainly on brute strength and speed, with an overlay of nuanced tactics. For a lifetime of self defense you’ll need ranged (striking) skills as well.
A nice guy, yes, but he’s not the Mr. Miyagi I knew.
What also works really well for me is running off in the other direction and then hiding behind a bunch of girls.
This whole thread is troubling on many levels…
serr8d: “Wrestling is a young man’s sport. Relies mainly on brute strength and speed, with an overlay of nuanced tactics.”
It’s actually a bit more like applied physics.
Back in the days when Eddie Graham ran the NWA, all potential wrestlers had to face off with Hiro Matsuda, a great hooker, before they were allowed to wrestle in the circuit. It was something of a hazing/initiation sort of thing. Matsuda broke at least one wrestler’s legs “stretching” him, as hooking-oriented wrestling was also called.
Another vote of appreciation here.
BJJ is fun and challenging, but the whole twisting of appendages into new and exciting shapes works on such a basic level.
Now, can you teach me a better takedown? ’cause mine suck.
In the longer interview, Thesz talks about beating Jersey Joe Walcott in a match, and how hookers had great success against strikers. Tony’s take on catch begins with solid striking — western boxing, elbows, low kicks; solid takedowns and takedown defense; then a strong amateur wrestling base: movement, controlling the opponent through proper weight distribution and explosiveness; ripping and jonesing, etc.; the submissions are added later, and even then, they are taught along with kinesiology and anatomy, because it is the principles that are most important, and that allow you to be creative and find hooks and concession holds whenever you recognize the proper frame. In that sense, it doesn’t rely on position so much as it does control: always attempt hooks from a position of control, knowing that if they fail you’ll still maintain control and be able to chain to something else.
Thesz is considered by many the greatest hook wrestler who ever lived. Others mentioned alongside him were, from what I know, not nearly so accomplished as he — many of them being essentially pro wrestlers with a working knowledge of a number of hooks, many of which they applied rather loosely — as show holds.
Legend has it that Karl Gotch tried to hook Thesz in a worked match, and Thesz — protecting himself — wound up hooking Gotch, instead. Most of those who call themselves catch wrestlers today learned their craft from Gotch or Robinson or lesser lights like Billy Wicks, but much of that is Japanese pro wrestling, which differs a great deal from the hooking Cecchine practices. One of Tony’s recent DVD series, in fact — “Show vs Go” (a series that I came up with the idea for, ahem) — looks at the kinds of holds being taught on instructional videos that are nothing but show holds, and so easily countered by those who know what they’re doing. These moves will work on a lot of people, don’t get me wrong; but once you see how easy the counters are, you’d be amazed.
And the reason is, these moves were designed for pro-wrestling, with “space” so that the audience could see the holds.
In actual catch wrestling, the hooks are very subtle, in terms of body movement — usually requiring just a small arch, or a small movement of the arm in toward the ribcage, etc.
Tony’s coach, Stanley Radwan, was already a legendary strong man when he met up with Henry Gehring, a Cleveland promoter who’d been a hook wrestler, and who was friends with people like Frank Gotch. So that’s how Radwan learned his hooking. Tony never studied with Thesz — the two would discuss certain entries, and Tony acknowledges some of their give and take on the Lost Art of Hooking series — so it’s to my mind doubly impressive that Thesz would see what Tony was doing and be absolutely blown away. In fact, at one point, Thesz noted that Tony seemed the Ghost of George Tragos, one of Thesz’s own coaches and a famous hook wrestler.
There are those online who have tried to call into question Cecchine’s credentials, which they were able to do because Tony didn’t have “documentation” of his associations. In his mind, though, he was living proof that he’d trained with legit hook wrestlers — and so he had nothing to prove.
By doing my own research, I was able to place Cecchine in the same church as Radwan (I talked to the Monsignor) at the same time Radwan attended and Tony was an altar boy; and by posting clips online — something that no one had ever done (except for an out of context clip Tony’d used to demonstrate the cross-over of submissions from one discipline to the next, filmed in a basement using partners who had never wrestled) — I have been able to let people decide for themselves whether or not they think he’s skilled and legit.
Many attempts have been made to tie Tony to Matt Furey, with whom he worked early on (Furey essentially put together seminars); but Cecchine broke with Furey was he realized Furey knew nothing about catch wrestling (he was a decent amateur wrestler, and was good at take downs, but he knew nothing of submissions); after that, attempts were made to suggest he’d invented his training. A new catch wrestling sect grew out of those accusations, and today features a few well-known names. But to a man, these were all pro-wrestlers, and their “hooking” comes from Japanese / Karl Gotch pro wrestling, not from the hooking of Thesz, Tragos, Frank Gotch, Ray Steele, Santel, et al.
Tony is now trying to recover from a five-year long attack on his reputation; by publicizing his stuff, and by studying with him myself (while studying BJJ on the side), I am able to say with confidence that what he teaches is not only legit, but it is by far the most effective sub grappling I’ve ever encountered.
It is, in a word, brutal.
Tony will be out here in November to make tweaks to my technique and to train me full-time for a week. So if you want to kick my ass, now would be the time.
The last real fight I was in, my objective was to grapple and get the guy on the ground. Then hold him there and punch his lights out. His objective was to stand there throwing punches.
Neither one of us really got to do what we planned.
Can’t we all just get along?
Peace had its chance, Pablo.
Sumo wrestling is my all time favorite. i always watch it a lot in Japanese channels.`-.
what is happening with tonys interview. anymore. and any other instructionals besides the snap no tap series.
i like to watch wrestling on TV and i have always been a fan of WWE*:’
real wrestling only exists on the olympics, the wrestling on WWE is quite scripted.’-
wrestling is the best sport on earth. i love also UFC,’;