The Politico’s David Mark reports:
Barack Obama’s vice presidential vetting team will undoubtedly run across some quirky and potentially troublesome issues as it goes about the business of scouring the backgrounds of possible running mates. But it’s unlikely they’ll find one so curious as Virginia Democratic Sen. Jim Webb’s affinity for the cause of the Confederacy.
Webb is no mere student of the Civil War era. He’s an author, too, and he’s left a trail of writings and statements about one of the rawest and most sensitive topics in American history.
He has suggested many times that while the Confederacy is a symbol to many of the racist legacy of slavery and segregation, for others it simply reflects Southern pride. In a June 1990 speech in front of the Confederate Memorial at Arlington National Cemetery, posted on his personal website, he lauded the rebels’ “gallantry,†which he said “is still misunderstood by most Americans.â€Â
Maybe Webb can get a testimonial from S.R. Sidarth. There’s more nuance to Webb’s writing on these subjects, but Mark correctly observes that the “distinctions Webb makes, however, tend not to receive a full airing in the heat of political debate.”
Update: There’s more at Memeorandum.
The Good Ship O! is having some problems
Here’s one that won’t need vetted:
“Appearing on NPR’s “All Things Considered,” Ohio Governor Ted Strickland unequivocally ruled out being Barack Obama’s running mate, The Washington Post reports.”
Here’s one bailing:
“WASHINGTON (CNN) — On the same day Democratic leaders stressed party unity after the drawn-out primary fight, one congressional Democrat said Tuesday that he will not endorse Sen. Barack Obama’s bid for the White House.
Rep. Dan Boren, D-Oklahoma, says he won’t endorse Sen. Barack Obama for president.
Rep. Dan Boren, Oklahoma’s lone Democrat in Congress, said he has to listen to the wishes of his own constituents.”
The existence of Confederate memorials and military bases named after former Confederate generals is proof that history is not always written by the winners.
I live in Richmond, worked some years back about a block from the Confederate White house. I drive down Monument Avenue most days I venture out. I went to Girl Scout retreats at Fort Pickett. I have been chased by confederate-soldier ghosts in Hollywood Cemetary. An oil of Stonewall Jackson’s memorial once graced my mantle, (though not in honor of the General, simply as a well done Vvgnette of the city.)
I can not wrap my mind around the concept that there is anything unusual in Webb’s admiring scholarship of the war of Northern Agression. This is an issue with anyone? How could it be so. :)
I grew up everyday steeped in the unspoken but certain knowlege that the South had prevailed and won the war of gallantry, though completely reconciled to the lost war of Northern aggression.
Well, you see Sarah, ipso facto, Jim Webb is a racist. So it is written.
And Macaca, but not Kyoto.
SarahW,
As noted in the original post, it’s an issue with some nuance. But I don’t see Team O! as wanting to take it on, any more than they did that national dialogue on race we were going to have.
I should probably denounce myself, Jim Webb and George Allen, just to be on the safe side.
Well, Pablo, you did use the “M-word.”
Reckon what some yankee douchebag might say if I were to posit the theory that negroid soldiers fighting for the union side were simply doing it to get a chance to kill white colored people and get away with it? That is no more absurd than the idea that Confederate soldiers were fighting for the institution of slavery instead of simply defending their homes and families from invaders.
A person who fights honorably for a bad cause can be respected (see Field Marshal Erwin Rommel). But what can be said in a specific setting about a specific subject is not what can be said in a political campaign; the big story will drown out the actions of individuals and won’t allow for distinctions. Praise for the Confederacy would be a killer.
Where does Webb find the time to be a scholar when he could be out turning young boys upside down and placing their crank in his mouth?
A day or two ago, I referred to Obama as “the Distinguished Gentleman.” At the time, I was vaguely remembering the movie with Eddie Murphy — he plays a small-time con artist who successfully runs for Congress on little more than empty catchphrases and being all things to all people.
Little did I know… The resemblance is downright spooky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5nu5GRDzog
This was made in 1992. I am officially freaked out.
Sarah W – since I had at least one ancestor who fought – Iowa Volunteer Infantry as a surgeon – I don’t think of it as the War of Northern Aggression; rather as the War of the Rebellion.
No offense meant, you understand.
“But I don’t see Team O! as wanting to take it on”
Oh, hells, no, anymore than I would take on the very crapness of the consolation prize sculpture installed on Monument Ave. in honor of the (very honorable and deserving of a better memorial) Arthur Ashe. That would be a denouncing with tar and feathers stuck on.
Mikey NTH,
I think I saw you write nearby that you’re of Anglo-Scot descent, so icymi, Webb’s book is actually about the Irish-Scots.
“A person who fights honorably for a bad cause can be respected”
Defending your home from an invader is hardly a “bad cause”. Secession was legal.(Thats why they amended the friggen constitution after successfully conquering the Confederates) The North attacked in order to preserve tax revenue they were extorting from Southern States(which is why they seceded in the first place). The problem with discussions about the Civil War is all of the outright lies people “know” to be true.
I love the South. I have spent a lot of time there, and have always been impressed by the graciousness and goodwill of the “Southerners”. That is, as long as I don’t say “New York” out loud.
It is a different world than the Northeast where I grew up, but, none-the-less, a very friendly and tight knit world.
But make no mistake. The war is still “on” for many Southerners (and I say that with no judgement). Many of my Southern friends have not conceded defeat yet.
What I found most interesting in the South, though, was many of my black friends who told me that they would much rather live in the South than the North.
They always told me that at least they knew where they stood in the South, because white Southerners were not shy about their bigotry. As opposed to the North, where people would slap your back when you were watching, but stick a shiv in it the minute you turned away.
From what I have observed, this is true. In the South, integrated neighborhoods are the norm, as opposed to the communities where I live in the Northeast. I feel almost relieved when I see a successful black family where I live.
Pretty fucked up, huh?
Just sayin’…
It can and will be ignored. Never underestimate power of the media to ignore the white elephant in the room. Obama needs someone with a military background who is dedicated to defeat in Iraq as he has been.Bonus Webb being from a state that Obama really needs to win.
Also I would like to denounce myself for being a racist, for the white elephant commit !!!!!!!!!!!11!! and Macaca, which cause me to laugh like Beavis.
None taken, Mikey NTH.
FWIW, the majority of my Tennessee-tilted family tree were aligned in sympathy, if not action in the field of battle, with the Union, and lord knows there is a Yankee or two in the woodpile. However, I did grow up where the civl war was viewed exactly as Webb views it.
Fish don’t know they are wet, and Richmond as fish has not been terribly eager to comprehend any such complaint or care about it. There are some battles here and there about the once-unassailable ideas about “Gallantry”. There are forces who view the monuments as insult, and would have then yanked sown, and the home of Jefferson Davis moved off its foundations to make room for an office building or parking lot for the sheer satisfaction of it. Mostly that isn’t going to happen any time soon.
Karl – some of my ancestors backed the wrong horse in the late eighteenth century and then left for a healthier land. Others came over afterwards and settled in Michigan. Some of those who left earlier returned to the US less than a hundred years ago; others went to Canada straight from the UK (one was an engineer on the Welland Canal) and then came to the US.
It has been a migration, but most ended up moving around the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence. Trying to track them down is difficult, but we do have some clues and old papers – I have a medical school diploma from Ohio for a great-great-grandfather (year 81 of the American Republic) who was the one that was in Iowa for the Civil War, but then went to Michigan afterwards. Don’t have any other info other than a copy of a War Department letter from 1901 confirming his service and acknowledging his right to a pension of some sort.
Not quite Webb’s point, but–
Confederate soldiers’ almost never being pseudo-excused as retarded dupes of the ol’ musket-steamtrain complex is…also “nuanced.” They get the brownbabykillbot half of the standard rhetoric, but seldom its What’s the Matter With Dogpatch? yang. It’s kind of odd… America’s only truly econo-imperialistic war, yet… Hm. Yeah. Anyway…
Webb is one of maybe three politicians I don’t hate quite enough to light on fire myself. (I’d dance around the fire. Not goin’ soft.) This is a very bad sign for his ambitions. Just enough Obamanites would shit their Captain Planet jammies if Jedediah Corntoot got picked, that he can’t be.
The press would pass over his occasional impolitic rationalities — just like they do already — but the marginal vote loss among nutrooty types could cost the Ds a tight state. One state is one more than they can afford to risk this time. Not happening.
Sarah – I would not have any of that happen. To do so would be to enforce forgetfulness, and forgetting would be the first step on the long road to repetition.
It was; it happened. Losing institutional memory is always a bad thing – not as bad as obsessing, but a bad thing.
I suppose if a purpose of Webb’s VP nom would to grab Virginia, the confederacy=buff thing would not ding him here a bit. Virginians in general do know what that’s all about. They have that nuance down.
Reading back my typos, I prounounce myself…
in serious need of bedtime, or at least a contact lens change. NIghters!
I like ol’ (well young!) Jim Webb. He is the most economic populist of any likely Obama VP choices. His book Born Fighting ranks up there with Obama’s in style and readability. Even has a John McCain blurb on the cover (also w/ Reagan’s picture). He’s apologized for the sexism and possible racism of past statements. Served very honorably in combat roles. What more would the Red Meat folks here want?
dd,
The Red Meat folks wouldn’t be the problem for O! The issue is whether you take VA but lose somewhere else due to the Blue Meat folks.
Exhibit A.
“That is, as long as I don’t say “New York†out loud”
Friend,
Speaking as a man who grew up in South Georgia and was bequeathed the family tobacco farm in a little town just south of the mythical Mayberry (Pilot Mountain) North Carolina, I am puzzled by your easy use of a tired Salsa commercial in explaining your relationship with people from the “South” you so love.
What gives, smart feller?
Yeah, Karl. I do find some of Webb’s tortured explanations for the Scotch /Irish support of some dumb/shit policies in the past as suspect…but damn, the guy’s brave and determined and apparently smart enough to read statistics and graphs and such and also able to pull off a pretty good upset over the once popular Gov. Allen (a Fox Newsworthy type of blowhard). And like many former conservatives like Arianna, David Brock, and Micheal Lind he’s seeing the forest for the trees in that the lower middle class (as exemplified by the Appalachian whites) is getting screwed big time: Where the Republican Oil Lobby “free market” (i.e. monopoly) hits the hardest.
I could see a patriotic military smart talker getting a few of those orange states (incl. the many Mexican/Americans in NH and West Texas too.
I’ll admit Webb kind of shoots from the hip and not sure even I would want him in the Presidency…but then McCain and him are pretty much the same in temperament but Webb seems to see common concerns and the corruption common in corporative governance more than McCain does. (I personally think that yankee war of aggression bs. is soo much hooey. The South attacked the North, not the other way around. Bloody Kansas and all that… (John Brown was only defending the Free staters from numerous murders and such prior to his attacks for instance … and Bull Run? and Fort Sumter? who attacked first? Born Fighting indeed.
I appreciate the good collection of work you’re doing even if we don’t much agree on the analysis of it. Thanks!
the lower middle class (as exemplified by the Appalachian whites) is getting screwed big time: Where the Republican Oil Lobby “free market†(i.e. monopoly) hits the hardest.
That is what I like about dave, his ability to condense a ton of stupid down into a little space so you don’t have to spend much time looking for it.
So dave, you think Webb is smart enough to explain to Obama that raising taxes on oil isn’t a real good way to lower the price? And that in oil producing states like West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Texas people are smart enough to know we should be drilling in ANWR and off the FL coast to increase domestic supplies?
From the link: “No sooner was Webb elected in 2006 before he picked an utterly pointless fight with President Bush. At a post-election White House reception, Webb, who had ostentatiously declined to stand in a receiving line, was approached by the president, who asked, “How’s your boy?” (Webb’s son was serving in Iraq, and Webb had spoken of him often while campaigning against the war.) Webb replied, “I’d like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President.” When Bush replied brusquely, “That isn’t what I asked. How’s your boy?” Webb replied even more brusquely, “That’s between me and my boy, Mr. President.” “
pointless? who says? At least the author of the article notes Bush replied ‘brusquely’. (unlike the other linked article about the incident). Having heard Bush being seemingly arrogant and ‘brusque’ I can see Webb being offended by George’s demand to know (and exploit) Webb’s concerns about his own son being in harm’s way. We, the public, already have put up with GW’s exploitation of fears over 9/11 and have seen how he used that one for his own interests. Webb caught the nuance and justly replied in fighting mode.
fuck b jesus. bmoe, you know the USA has the lowest taxes on gasoline of any large developed nation (18 cents federal). It’s utterly stupid of you and other conservatives to Bemoan the big taxes on Oil. There aren’t any. Who’s got the largest profits in history of any corp. in America? And that’s just a part of the profit taking at America’s expense. The Speculation! (while demand is falling and supply is growing even…so the market isn’t working obviously.)
And let’s drill the anwar in Alaska? that’s maybe a couple of week’s worth of fuel at higher prices and would do irreperable damage to environmental laws and such. Do conservatives ever think of maybe like Conserving Oil for future generations? Republican lackeys just keep coming up with the stupid and keep driving the stupid down to the lowest common denominator.
And let’s let the LOTTERY fund everything. lottery’s, kill a few hippies for mommy and everything will be all right! Those tie dyed nature lovers are driving up the cost of gasoline. Alright, go get ’em, homer!
It’s utterly stupid of you and other conservatives to Bemoan the big taxes on Oil. There aren’t any.
Has anyone recently proposed raising Federal gas taxes for the consumer?
DD, the news of the day is that Obama wants to raise taxes on the gasoline producers.
Do you think they would pass along that extra cost to us?
“And let’s drill the anwar in Alaska? that’s maybe a couple of week’s worth of fuel at higher prices and would do irreperable damage to environmental laws and such.”
I so love the idiocy.
I have to ask. What does a damaged law look like? Is there a crack in it?
Stupid must be like bliss on crack.
Do conservatives ever think of maybe like Conserving Oil for future generations?
Is this a joke? Like, I thought, like, we’re suppose to, you know, try and get off fossil fuels! I didn’t get the “we’re conserving oil for future generations” memo. And why wouldn’t it harm the environment in the future? What are you using to tie dye your shirts?
the USA has the lowest taxes on gasoline of any large developed nation (18 cents federal).
dd – You got anything to back this up sport? Do other countries layer on all those hefty state level taxes that we have here in the U.S. as well? You do know, dd, that the U.S. has one of the highest corporate income tax rates among developed nations don’t you and that can’t possibly be factored into your tax assuption there cupcake?
dd – Do you know how much of their massive profits the oil companies make in the U.S.?
Do conservatives ever think of maybe like Conserving Oil for future generations?
dd – How about we go back to burning wood, mkay?
I say we burn hippies instead! Patchouli aromatherapy!!!
Didn’t .38 Special do a song about Webb?
And the receiving line story from datadave about Webb being a dick is old news. Webb’s a dick, a total cock, we get it. Can we move on?
“Comment by Ted Nugent’s Soul Patch on 6/10 @ 7:52 pm #
The existence of Confederate memorials and military bases named after former Confederate generals is proof that history is not always written by the winners.”
My son, Matt the Marine, is training right now at Fort A. P. Hill, VA.
Running with Webb and Michele would be like making a car trip with Earnest T. Bass and Aunt Ester.
“…Webb seems to see common concerns and the corruption common in corporative governance more than McCain does.”
Oh, so he’d refuse the offer of the VP slot from O! then.
Who’s got the largest profits in history of any corp. in America?
I am so friggin’ tired of this canard. Yes, Exxon (the favorite demon of eco-fearmongers) posted the largest profit figures ever in raw dollars. Which is a lot less impressive when you understand that they also had record outlays. The percentage of profit Exxon got from each dollar of gross revenues is actually lower than it is in a lot of industries; there’s a higher profit margin in soda pop.
Who’s got the largest profits in history of any corp. in America?
dave,
You know that 3 1/2″ galvanized ringshank that you accidentally shot into your head? The profit margin on that was higher than the oil companies take. I bet you’re really pissed now.
That would be Elmer Fed.
What’s written by the winners are the explanations and the justifications for the actions during the war, and for the results of the awful periods after war. Much of the hatred and angst against the North was the result of Sherman’s March to the Atlantic, the ‘scorched earth’ part of the ‘total war’ concept.
And, carpetbaggers.
Oh. The link.
“Much of the hatred and angst against the North was the result of Sherman’s March to the Atlantic, the ’scorched earth’ part of the ‘total war’ concept.”
Yeah, Grant was a genius, wasn’t he?
alpo…..just enjoying the comic relief. Thanks for not moving on.
Hey, McGhee, that’s a good one…but do you think just maybe those same ‘investors’ are also collecting on that 30 to 50 percent profit margin in the commodities profits of oil: 30 to 50 percent of that 130 a buck barrel of oil (going up to 200 a barrel as predicted by wall streets best and brightest……is profit in the hands of the friends of Exxon/Mobil. That “phony” profit you’re showing that’s just beans for the tools not in the know.
In case you didn’t know “corporations” are supposed to be govt. entities run for the benefit of the public that incorporates them. Corporations are Public persons…..given license to operate for the benefit of the public…not to fuck the public good. A state will not give you and your investors legal rights to do something akin to criminality. Look at the laws: “Generically, any business entity that is recognized as distinct from the people who own it (i.e., is not a sole proprietorship or a partnership) is a corporation. This generic label includes entities that are known by such legal labels as ‘association’, ‘organization’ and ‘limited liability company’, as well as corporations proper. Only a company that has been formally incorporated according to the laws of a particular state is called ‘corporation’.
(e.g. Harvard college is the oldest corporation in the western hemisphere. Wasn’t meant to be incorporated to fuck the common good. ) love that wikipedia.
“3 1/2″ galvanized ringshank” yeah, that’s brutal. wtf are you building with that sort of nail? Boxcars for the hippies to be shipped to West Texas.
It’s utterly stupid of you and other conservatives to Bemoan the big taxes on Oil. There aren’t any.
How much did Exxon pay in taxes last year, datafuckheadedstupidity?
What were Exxon’s costs?
How does their profit margin compare to the top 100 or even 500 companies?
Do you need help tying your shoes?
you know the USA has the lowest taxes on gasoline of any large developed nation
Is that why we have no road-clogging farmers demanding oil subsidies? Just checking.
Exxon had $10.9 billion in profit for the first quarter of this year. They paid $9 billion in income taxes. That’s entirely separate from the per gallon tax we pay at the pump. Uncle Sam made a hell of a lot more on gasoline sales than Exxon did.
30% to 50% profit? Where did you get that figure from?
Truth is, oil industry profits are in line with the rest of American industry. In 2007, a record year, they earned 8.3 cents per dollar of sales. Beverage companies and cigarette makers, by contrast, earned 19.1 cents. Drug makers, 18.4 cents. Indeed, all manufacturers, 8.9 cents on average, made more than “Big Oil.”
Linky
Now, let’s just ignore those stupid facts. Corporations are EEEEVVVIL!! Booga booga!
Oh, I denounce all of you. (PDF) Except for that broke fucker dave.
30% to 50% profit? Where did you get that figure from?
His ass
sounds like you all are Webb-crazy. Go Obama, pick Webb!
In that video, Tom Petty (a Great musician and person) has a black female backup singer. Not sure how she felt with that flag but I am sure he reassured her he isn’t a racist. I don’t expect Southerners to renounce everything in their past…so why should Jim Webb? Heartwarming is that Mudcrunch reinactment of Tom Petty’s old college gig band…he just called his older much poorer friends from the past gave them enough to take time off from work and started the old band up again.
notes from wiki: “He was once a member of the University of Florida’s grounds crew (though he was never a student at the university) and planted a tree that is now called the Tom Petty tree.”
“Petty also overcame a difficult relationship with his father, who found it hard to accept that his son was “a mild-mannered kid who was interested in the arts” and subjected him to verbal and physical abuse on a regular basis. Petty was extremely close to his mother, and remains close to his brother Bruce, whom he describes as “a prince”.” Sadly, I can relate to having that sort of typical redneck kind of dad, although not as bad as I suspect he had it. I think Neil Young had a song about Petty’s dad back in the day.
now VP Webb? any takers? (now a Redneck State woman vice president who’s a Democrat and white? since we’re playing that identity game? )
Why should John McCain? Why should George Bush? Why should George Allen? You’ll have to ask your race baiting lefty friends, dave. They’ll tell you why it’s a problem for Webb.
Again, dave, where’d you get that 30-50% profit figure?
yupp, that’s the latest run-up in commodity profit taking: the market would say oil is still only in the 50 dollar a barrel range due to supply and demand…the rest is insider trading, monopolies of control and wealth due lack of transparency and regulation…much to do with the ‘reforms’ of former Senator from Enron Phil Gramm. 50 percent might be conservative. A few folks are making Trillions at the moment knowing that the Bush/Cheney gang isn’t going to stop them and they don’t give a damn about the election as their time is “Now!”. Make it fast and fuck the rest of us.
OPEC is a victim in all this.
Karl Marx
God, you are ignorant, dave.
Pablo, Risk! Some segments deal with high risks (and need high r and d) and are in short’term niches..thus higher profits are needed: one-off building projects, chemicals that might not be marketable, etc… and others deal in basic necessities unchanging year to year: I believe supermarkets have profit margins of only 2 percent. Trucking now is about 1 to zero percent. Airlines apparently in the minus column. Low risk and high demand segments are typically in low profit territory as they can easily replicate their business from place to place. Why big box stores look the same where ever. They deal in mass products that are necessities and likely to stay necessities. Big Oil? Very low risk as the demand is pretty much fixed due to institutional and long time habit.
ahem, seems like you guys could take a few B-school classes.
“Beverage companies and cigarette makers, by contrast, earned 19.1 cents. Drug makers, 18.4 cents. ”
and there are essential ‘monopolies’. Yupp, profits galore if you own a trademark on an addiction. Coca Cola made much of Warren Buffet’s
bizillions. It’s not in the link but he bet on Coke a long time ago. Not anymore. But since they bought Vitamin Water…maybe still a good one!
dataless,
Back it up or quit wasting our time, please. Your immunity to facts and reason was slightly amusing for a short while. That time is long past. I believe you have been asked to provide sources for some incredible profit margins. Sources, please.
databraindead – How much did Exxon pay in taxes? What were their profits, as compared to their costs? Why are you such a pigheaded dumbass?
I’m talking about post 59. Your move, sir.
dataless does not know the difference between Exxon and commodity traders.
Mark D – If he was going to source that, he would have to post a picture of his hairy zit covered ass. No thanks.
No renouncing the unreconstructed traitor in the room?
Here is a man misrepresenting the history of his nation and factually wrong about its aftermath. A man who writes disgusting things in his first post and then declaims it “I might say that, but I really didn’t, event though I just did.”
Okay, I will correct him: the North did not fire the first shots of the Civil War, so the North did not “attack” the South. Secession is nowhere in the Constitution and the none of the post-war Amendments to the documents (13-15) forbid secession. You don’t have to forbid what was illegal in the first place. And, finally, as anyone who has read anything but Shelby Foote knows, the Civil War had many causes, but the main reason the Southerners “left” the Union was their fear that electing an abolitionist President meant slavery would end. No one fight s war over tariffs, you clown, especially since tariffs were an issue from the Founding all the way to now.
While I agree with Sarah and Karl and Jim Webb that the average Confederate soldier was no more guilty of secession than the average Japanese soldier was of the Bataan Death March, it still needs noting they picked up arms against their government because they were mad about an election.
Their leaders were guilty of treason and any apologist of their cause in today’s world is a moron who favors gunning down American soldiers and overthrowing the American government.
Ignoring Georgia Unreconstructed rebels seems like a good idea until they bomb Fort Sumter. We can’t trust traitors
Google – net profit of 25% last quarter.
The average net profit margin for the S&P Energy sector, according to figures from Thomson Baseline, is 9.7%. The average for the S&P 500 is 8.5%. So yes, energy companies are more profitable than many others…but not by an inordinate amount.
“Beverage companies and cigarette makers, by contrast, earned 19.1 cents. Drug makers, 18.4 cents. â€Â
and there are essential ‘monopolies’. Yupp, profits galore if you own a trademark on an addiction. Coca Cola made much of Warren Buffet’s
bizillions. It’s not in the link but he bet on Coke a long time ago. Not anymore. But since they bought Vitamin Water…maybe still a good one!
It appears that datadave doesn’t like the idea of allowing people who invent/create products to profit from those products. In his ‘mind’ we probably shouldn’t allow patents or trademarks at all. After all, people might make profits and then the state isn’t able to confiscate the wealth and redistribute it.
Microsoft – 28% net profit margin.
dave wants corporations to pay as much as possible in taxes so he can feel better about dodging his.
You mean like Bob Rubin at Goldman Sachs; who’s last major energy coup was bringing off the merger of Houston Nat. Gas and another energy player and picked a respected former Interior Dept
official to head the merged company, Ken Lay of Enron; maybe you’ve heard of it dave. Along with Jon Corzine, who brought Petrochina public (that’s the company profitting from genocidal Sudanese theocratic oiligarchs) No wonder Goldman’s pimiping for
&200.00 oil.Rubin, went on to peddle subprime, all through out Europe, after he left the Treasury Department; so naturally he moves up to run CitiCorp’s operations, and cheerfully talks down
the economy in News Weak.
Now right about now, I ailmost pity how Webb has sold out his soul; to the Party which called his comrades war criminals, spit on them, labeled them
as ‘psycho’ and is set to do the same with Iraq Vets.(including by extension his own son)Meanwhile, who have the standard bearers been, a Southern fried
tobacco scion, with delusions of environmental prophet, a Park Avenue transplant, to Vermont; who’s handiwork can be seen in his self destructing pres. campaign; and the recent muddle that tied up the primaries for six monthes.
While selling us, not
a abstemious Mr. Rogers type or even
a fat lecherous former hippy, but Julian Bond 2.0; (for those who don’t know, he was the lefty Georgia state
legislator, who pioneered the anti war
stance in the 60s, was a punchline on SNL in the 70s; and was making Taliban
comparisons to the GOP in 00s. This is
the bill of goods they’re selling us now.
datadave talking about the commodities, market, yikes! Just a friendly tip dave, I don’t have time to get involved here, but basically the way commodities work, is anytime somebody makes a 30% profit on an oil trade, somebody else lost that money. Blaming the increase in gas prices on commodities is retarded, the market tends to even out price flucuations, it doesn’t drive them.
ccoffer is taking up arms against the nation? If so, I renounce him. And I renounce you Ron, because you’re a race bating douchebag bigot. Thank you for the opportunity to get that on the record.
“#Comment by ahem on 6/11 @ 6:43 am #
God, you are ignorant, dave.”
dave isn’t just ignorant.
dave is “sucked into a black hole and zoomed to Earth via wormhole from Teh Stoopid Uneeverse” stupid.
Michael Moore– 27% of “Fahrenheit 9/11” net ….
This is kinda fun!
Carin, your next assignment, should you decide to accept it, is to figure out the the price of a gallon of Perrier.
This blog will self destruct in 10 seconds……………
Here is a man misrepresenting the history of his nation and factually wrong about its aftermath.
From someone like IJS, I find this statement to show an enormous lack of self awareness.
You don’t have to forbid what was illegal in the first place.
Cite? On what basis do you assert it was illegal?
thx for staying on topic, troy. Now go fuck yourself for your cowardly name-calling and pathetic posturing over thor’s remarks. Cretinous, lazy thinking and cowardly, you are. Maybe go to a liberal website and try to keep your head up in the fray.
yeah, it’s obvious corporations aren’t the same as commodities. It’s just that the same pack that’s making modest profits in the boardrooms are making a killing in the secretive, non-transparent world of deregulated oil markets.
And don’t forget executive salaries, which isn’t even a “profit” but a cost. If 10 percent of a typical US corp’s Gross Income goes to the CEO, it doesn’t even get taxed as a profit…but a cost of doing business. Such ‘business’ is what the monkey does on the face of a typical consumer looking up that Corporation’s money tree. So if MobilExxon only makes 40 Billion in a quarter..admittedly chump change in the Oil market. What about the billions given to managment of said company? Did they work for it? (interesting even the Rockefeller family is up in arms about their family’s former wealth generator….it used to be Standard oil but their share isn’t enough to influence MobilExxon’s activities against the environment…nor enough to influence the highly paid (non profit wages) management and board of directors who I am sure make gazillions on the hedge funds too.)
I am not anti Big Oil actually. Only Anti-MobilExxon for it’s political activities that have brought ruination to the American middle class.
hey, gotta go make some lucre and maybe check on the rest of the web. Fun typing atchya.
Having proven his stooopidity beyond a shadow of a doubt, datadave returns to reinforce that prior position.
And if .00000000001% of a corporation’s profit goes to the guy who cleans their toilets, that doesn’t get taxed as profit, but as a cost of doing business. Thing is, the janitor pays income tax on his pay, just like the CEO does on his. Duh.
Except, of course, that the janitor is in a much lower bracket and may not pay any tax at all, depending on his situation.
good one, Ron Burgundy. Guess you”re under cover knowing how fascist and terrorist the Rethugs get about their precious confederacy (of lies). Ah, the Southern Strategy: abolitionists, tar and feather them, and hang ‘im if they come back.
Webb ain’t one as he saw the light and left the party of neo-fascist ‘patriots’.
Don’t forget to report your income!
the janitor has to pay more taxes in percentage of income (15 percent just to social security and another 10 percent to health care.. and then income taxes on top of that). On the other hand, the CEO gets his income taxes back in protection and security benefits and the CEO only pays like zilch in health care, and less than 1 percent to social security.
gosh, the dumbnuts, the numbnuts of the typical right wing argument.
I pointed out Goldman types like Rubin, ‘sage master of the universe’
brilliant moves like picking Ken Lay,
Corzine’s facilitating of PetroChina,
one of the largest oil companies in the world; formerly a State Monopoly like GAZPROM; who have concessions in the Sudan, and formerly in Iraq, during the whole oil for palaces fiasco. I reserved my appprobation for the likes of Al Gore, a con man using former Drexel Burnham personnel to make his fortune on our supposed environmental guilt; and Julian Bond 2.0. I did point out how Webb seems to turning his back on anything and everyone he ever cared for.And I pointed out, how Howard Dean, really does how someone born on Park Avenue, scion of Dean Witter,and Pan Am
can really be very much the caricature
of a stuffed WASP. Now, Ron, that was the name of Will Farrell’s witness anchorman right
It was southern Democrats that brought about secession dave, and it was Republican abolitionists who finally defenestrated the one slave state for one free state system.
Rob, when my Republican boss reports his and pays payroll taxes like he promised but didn’t, maybe I’ll try a little harder to fuck myself.
Dave, you’ve been tossing around a lot of numbers. Where are you getting them?
Jd, still cranking that lawn boy, black faced kid with the lantern, turning him in your mouth and trying to get a little wetness outta the boy? I entertain you. You must have nothing to do.
ah later, too much fun.
Ah, it’s someone else’s fault you’re a criminal. And, of course, that person’s a “Republican”.
No wonder you’re a democrat; you have no intention of being your own man.
There are a few “fighting generals”, people whose job it is to be the überleader for a war, but the vast majority of flag officers are soldier-bureaucrats whose job it is to plan, allocate, and record, and to politick with other generals and the civilian leadership about organization and resource allocation. Even for a fighting general, that last is the big end of his job. A flag officer who took up a weapon and shot at the enemy should be booted out as quickly as possible, because he’s wasting his time on minutiae.
The trouble is, that produces an opportunity for empire-building and self-aggrandizement, ignoring the actual needs of the troops. People who take it that way are “political generals”, so-called in the full knowledge that the primary job of a general is politics. It may be a little too nuanced for people outside the military to understand, but the distinction is between politics as a method to get what’s wanted, and politics as either an end in itself or a vehicle for putting together a little fief to rule.
It’s inevitable, part of the way the world works, that people like that will show up, and they can be remarkably useful. NATO commanders, diplomatic liaisons, managers of status-of-forces agreements and the supporting bureaucracies, and procurement managers all come from that demographic. The military watches people at company grade (lieutenants and below) and field grade (majors and lieutenant colonels) and eases them into tracks where their skills and predilections can be exploited for the common good. In most cases there’s a “ticket punch” to be done — in the Navy, it’s hard to get to be an admiral if you haven’t commanded a big ship — and the task there is to get the guys through that as quickly as possible, because for the most part they’re arrogant, self-absorbed assholes who are hopeless as actual commanders. If the ticket doesn’t get punched, or if they’re too self-loving to let their executive officer and staff get them through that assignment, mostly they get out and go into real politics, either public or corporate.
Either way they’re crappy commanders, and everybody in the military knows it and sneers at them for it behind their backs.
There have been plenty of them on the Republican side — Colin Powell and Alexander Haig, e.g. — but as nearly as I can tell all of the military officers supporting Democrats fall into that category. Wes Clark, for Ghu’s sake. Democrats don’t seem to be able to make the distinction, and as a result when they go out and look for military support it never works out for them. That’w what Webb is all about. He’s a high-level bureaucrat with odd taste in clothes, is all, and as such won’t gain nearly as much support from military-oriented voters as expected by people who don’t know that.
Regards,
Ric
hey, dude someone paying for all these lavish things I’m building and they sure aren’t working for the money.
In re #96: Jesus, dave, you’re a disgusting piece of filth.
They clearly do work that is valued more than yours.
Ron -“Their leaders were guilty of treason and any apologist of their cause in today’s world is a moron who favors gunning down American soldiers and overthrowing the American government.”
That’s just nuts! Apologists of their cause may get it wrong ( at least according to your history of events) , as you have pointed out yourself. You seem not to acknowlege the tensions between country as state (eg, US vs. Virginia as “country”.) The civil war, it is widely acknowleged, shaped our present ideas of “country.” You seem to be applying a more modern understanding of country retroactively on participants of the civil war.
Even our own founding philosophies and documents allow that the people have a right to oppose tyranny with force. There is a non-moron case to be made for the confederate secession, and men of great honor shed blood over the question. Even the simplest understanding of events must allow that the secession’s failure is itself responsible for your present idea of America as country. Your accusation should acknowlege the southern states taking up arms *for* country, rather than against it…and how transformative to the national identity the Civil War really was.
Jd, still cranking that lawn boy, black faced kid with the lantern, turning him in your mouth and trying to get a little wetness outta the boy?
Nope. That is Jim Webb’s deal. Me? Not so much. Seems a bit icky to me.
Tom Petty (a Great musician and person)
Remember how most of the performers in the televised concert after 9/11 sang whinny, victim-like songs (e.g. Bruce Springsteen’s “My City of Ruin”)? TP and the Heartbreakers performed “I Won’t Back Down.” TP stared right into the camera when he sang it.
Coke – owner of Aquafina (the Perrier of today, right?) is …. ding ding ding – WINDFALL PROFIT LEVEL OF 21%.
I just mean, damn, everyone needs water, right? BASTARDS. I’m gonna write Maxine Waters about this right now …
What do we want?
SocializedNationalized Carbonated Beverages … When do we want it? NOW!That is some world class stupid right there. Social security is payment into his retirement that we definitely don’t want him handling himself because we’re looking out for him! And health insurance premiums are not a tax by any definition of the word. The CEO doesn’t get any more security/protection benefit than the janitor does, despite paying 35% in income tax. In fact, he stands to get much less, as he’d be means tested out of the majority of gov’t benefits. So, let’s say he make $20 mil a year. How does he get 7 million in benefits back?
“But I don’t see Team O! as wanting to take it on, any more than they did that national dialogue on race we were going to have.”
I don’t think they’ll take it on. They’ll let the GOP sling at the south the same slime that is slung at, say, vermont liberals.
andrea is proving to be a routine mendoucheous troll.
datalessdave actually approaches a valid point…before going all emo:
As in government ownership, dataless, because that’s your implication? But I digress.
If you’d just follow that up with something that made anti-collectivist sense, dataless, I’d kiss you. But alas:
Well, isn’t that sweet. So, ok, define the public good, dataless. Constitutionally, I mean, because as sure as you’re perpetually sans data, that’s all the scope you get.
See, the corporation is indeed the taxable entity that, get this, once shielded the private citizen from personal tax liability and all the warm fuzzies that entails. But you turned it on its head and made it darn near a maoist fundamental, didn’t you? Sooo, cites? References? Histories?
Ya think?
Here’s what the left just never understands. Let’s say we decide to tax oil companies for “windfall” profits. Let’s say we determine that “windfall” profits are profits over $10 million in a year. thus, anything the oil company makes over $10 million gets taken by the gov’t.
What incentive does the oil company have to locate, obtain, refine, transport, and then sell oil/gas once they hit their $10 million profit? Say they hit that profit # in June, why would they continue to operate for that year? Why would they not simply shut down production, send everyone home and wait until january of the next year, when they could start making profit again?
Or simply slow down production all year so that they don’t exceed the $10 million.
Why does the left think that the oil companies will strive to produce as much as possible for the gov’t to take the money they make?
either scenario leads to less supply for americans, which leads to increased cost of oil/gas.
So, instead of focusing on the “obscene” profits that oil companies make, why can’t we focus on the only real solution, which would be to allow the oil companies to increase supply – through drilling, through more refineries, etc?
Nothing else will work. Indeed, all the other “solutions” being proposed by the left will increase the cost of oil.
hey, dude someone paying for all these lavish things I’m building and they sure aren’t working for the money.
and you know that how?
Envy isn’t a pretty emotion dave; you ought to work on overcoming that.
But leftism is the very pursuit of socially-acceptable envy and legalized theft, Mikey. Which is why it’s nuts.
Great banana, you forgot the worst part of the tax. Congress is going to take the money and invest it in alternate energy, i.e.,forcing the oil companies to pay for a competing product. It makes no business sense, and flies in the face of capitalism, which, the last I checked, is the economic system we are currently under.
I’d ask by what right that could/should occur, Roboc, except I actually fear the answer, what with so many fellow subjects endorsing crap like that…
I looked on in horror when Maxine Waters suggested that the oil companies might be nationalized. I don’t know how that is going to affect world oil prices, speculation, supply and demand, etc. It just puts America at a disadvantage, especially with the current limits on domestic oil exploration and production. Alternate energy is going to take years to develop to be a meaningful part of a solution, so I don’t know what the plan could possibly be in the short-term.
You’ve got to quit flattering him.
“Alternate energy is going to take years to develop to be a meaningful part of a solution, so I don’t know what the plan could possibly be in the short-term.”
The short term plan is exactly what advocates for alternate energy and efficiency have been arguing would happen for years: pain. Fuel demand is quite inelastic, so we should be moving away from gasoline even in times of good, because bad times won’t allow quick market shifts to alternative solutions, be they transit, exploration or whatnot.
After all this time, and the failure of socialism everywhere it is put into practice, why can’t leftists understand economics? That’s what I never understand.
Kinda flies in the face of entire decades of leave-it-in-the-ground liberalism, no? Yes, you meant alternative energy…whose economic feasibility is spotty, at best.
Except when treating the oil industry like a bastard child, that is. Then it all makes a weird kinda sense.
The short term plan is exactly what advocates for alternate energy and efficiency have been arguing would happen for years: pain. Fuel demand is quite inelastic, so we should be moving away from gasoline even in times of good, because bad times won’t allow quick market shifts to alternative solutions, be they transit, exploration or whatnot.
1) moving to alternatives only makes sense when they are as cheap as oil – which even at today’s prices they are not.
2) the inelastic supply is not real – it is enforced on us by our gov’t that refuses to allow drilling or more refineries to be built.
3) the only reliable and cheap, and actually relatively clean energy supply that would make sense is nuclear, which the left absolutely will not allow.
4) alternatives will work when they come down in price (or when oil prices become higher than the alternatives), which the market will take care of. What the left has been arguing for years is to artificially induce alternatives throw gov’t coercion, wealth redistribution and higher taxation – which is the left’s answer to everything and never works.
So, the only real solution to the problem is allow exploration and drilling, allow new refineries to be built and build nuclear plants across america. Then you will see the price come down. As more nuke plants take over from coal/oil the cost of electricity will plumet and as technology improves on hybrids, etc., the demand for gas in this country will also decrease dramatically. The market would work if the left would let the market operate.
The next president and congress should pass a law requiring every state to build at least 2 nuclear power plants.
Even freakin socialist France is smart enough to use nuclear power.
The only currently viable alternative energy sources are nuclear and oil from oil shale and coal. I don’t see that changing any time soon.
Oops, old comment I forgot to post. So I basically agree with great banana.
You have to turn to mature technologies right now, not to pie-in-the-sky crap. If we ever have alternatives that will work (and I’m not holding my breath, fusion is always 20 years away it seems), they will come online as they are feasible. In the mean time, we need to build nuke plants toot sweet.
…run for the benefit of the public that incorporates them. Corporations are Public persons…..given license to operate for the benefit of the public…
Geez, I missed that part. I got an idea for determining if they are working for the public good dave, how about we give everybody tokens, and if the corporation produces goods or services the people want, they can give the corporations those tokens in return. Then we can tell which corporations are doing the most public good by which ones have the most tokens.
Oh, wait, that is what we do now! We just call the tokens money!
In case you didn’t know “corporations†are supposed to be govt. entities run for the benefit of the public that incorporates them.
Yeah, that jumped out at me too. But then there was this:
(e.g. Harvard college is the oldest corporation in the western hemisphere. Wasn’t meant to be incorporated to fuck the common good. ) love that wikipedia.
That’s just Double Super-Size Stupid with a cherry on top. Is it really too much to ask that lefty trolls understand the distinction between for-profit and not-for-profit corporations? Seriously, how much dividend did Harvard’s stockholders earn last year?
I blame Wikipedia.
[…] Protein Wisdom – Obama Veepstakes: Sen. Jim Webb’s Rebel Yell [Karl] […]
“Okay, I will correct him: the North did not fire the first shots of the Civil War, so the North did not “attack†the South. ”
So the North acted in self defense? I like it when someone is kind enough to save me the trouble of proving they are a lying douchebag. Thank you.
The well established understanding of the rights of the individual states in both the North and the South prior to the Civil War is very well documented, my excited little friend.
I would try and help you understand this if thought you even gave a shit about the truth. Here is a hint: How would one commit a “rebellion” against the European Union? Are current members legally bound to be EU in perpetuity? Think real hard, Einstein.
“Kinda flies in the face of entire decades of leave-it-in-the-ground liberalism, no? Yes, you meant alternative energy…whose economic feasibility is spotty, at best.”
Not just that. But alternatives to fuel use. Like transit and planning that improves the elasticity of demand for gasoline by making us less dependable on it.
“So the North acted in self defense? I like it when someone is kind enough to save me the trouble of proving they are a lying douchebag.”
I think they acted to destroy treason. It was — and still is — defined in the constitution as waging war. If the NYT printing some secrets counts, then firing on a Yankee fort counts.
coofer, you redneck little rebel, the EU and the US Constitution are not the same things.
When Lincoln re-supplied Sumpter in early April (US Federal property), what did the Southerners do on April 12? According to you, the United States fought a war of aggression against the Japanese (just because they attacked first doesn’t give us a right to attack them back!).
Strange then how the North was somehow able to muster armies to fight against “well-established understanding”? Strange, how Ol’ Hickory from Tennessee told John Calhoun that if South Carlina seceded, then Jackson would lead the army in South Carlina to hang Calhoun personally. Apparently, Andrew Jackson, a man from the South, a man steeped in an understanding of the Constitution, didn’t exactly know about your “well-established” states position.
But, it’s okay, my rebel friend, because George Wallace and Justice Taney had.
Wow, it’s like reading “Killer Angels” without the Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain chapters.