Don’t always agree with Bill Donahue, but he’s right on this time:
“Father Pfleger’s tirade would be inexcusable anywhere, but it is even more offensive when it happens in a church. It does not matter that it was not his own, nor does it matter that it happened in a church that has a record of allowing demagogues to exploit it. When churches become forums for political rallies, both religion and the First Amendment are corrupted.
“Obama and Pfleger are no strangers. Indeed, when Obama was in the state senate in Illinois, he conveniently arranged for Father Pfleger’s St. Sabina’s Church to receive state monies for its social programs. Of course, the guardians of church and state separation said nothing then and they are saying nothing now. That’s because they’re all in the tank for Obama. Just as important, why is it that of all the wonderful Catholic priests in the Chicago Archdiocese, Obama long ago chose Pfleger to hang with? Truth be known, Pfleger has a very troubling history: he has welcomed the anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan to preach in his church; he has hired prostitutes to worship there; he has been arrested for defacing billboards; and he once urged the crowd at an anti-gun rally to hunt down a gun store owner ‘like a rat’ and ‘snuff’ him.
“Senator Obama says he wants to bring people together. Then why does he choose as his clerical friends people like Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Father Pfleger? They are two peas in a pod, both equally divisive, separated only by the color of their skin.”
On the other hand, Rev. Susan Thistlethwaite buys wholeheartedly into the millenarian rhetoric of Obama as Messiah of a New Political Dispensation:
Instead, Pfleger’s sermon was a bullying rant that was disrespectful of the members of Trinity United Church of Christ, disrespectful of Senator Hillary Clinton and really also disrespectful of Senator Obama and his consistent message of finding common ground.
This political campaign season often seems to me to be a kind of cultural theater, where we are seeing the end of one kind of politics, the politics of polarization (and even the religion of polarization) coming to an end and a new politics and religion of unity trying to break through. I have been reading Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America by Rick Perlstein, and this excellent book describes this historical trajectory we have experienced since 1972.
The idea that you should inflame people’s hatred of one another as a way to mobilize voters has been dominant since 1972 and very powerful. But it has produced near paralysis in Washington and disastrous foreign policy. But hate dies hard and while people want to find unity, they can easily fall back into divisive rhetoric, especially when it is disguised as humor. This is bad at a dinner party; in the pulpit it is shameful and wrong.
As a woman, I was offended by Pfleger’s mocking of Senator Clinton for showing emotion. Women in leadership get this double-whammy all the time; you have to be strong and not show emotion to be seen as a leader and when you don’t show emotion people say you are cold and unfeeling. I had hoped that stereotype of women had died in the 1970’s, but apparently not for Pfleger.
It is clear that Pfleger belongs to the old politics and religion of division.
That’s really craptacular, there, Rev. Sue. You seem to have lost sight, somewhere, too, of the idea of a Savior whose kingdom is not of this world.
Ace has some lowlight reel footage of Pfather Pfleger’s pflapdoodle.
I can’t think of anyone ballsy enough to challenge Trinity’s tax exempt status anytime soon. How sad.
Pfffft. That’s so yesterday. There’s a new Messiah in town.
There is something I find really telling of how the MSM is covering this story
They concentrate on the ‘good Father’s’ mocking of Hillary. None of it quotes his anti-white racism.
I find his “all whites are guilty” spewing much more telling.
I concentrate on the good Father’s mocking of Hillary because I think it’s priceless and funny.
Giving black churches free rein to politick from their pulpits while insisting that the Christian Right sit bound and gagged does seem like a double standard.
Today Rush was spreading a rumor that there exists damaging footage of Michelle Obama ranting from that same pulpit, a tirade about Whitey this and Whitey that.
Witness the FDLS, only women of the Christian Right get gagged and bound so it’s only half a double standard.
“The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America by Rick Perlstein, and this excellent book describes this historical trajectory we have experienced since 1972.
The idea that you should inflame people’s hatred of one another as a way to mobilize voters has been dominant since 1972 and very powerful.”
I suppose they really are that self-unaware. Yes, it was Nixon, and not the dirty flag-burning hippies and murdering Black Panthers that enflamed bitter sentiment.
These calls for unity always seem to require me to lay down my deep convictions, and the benefit of my reason and experience, and mindlessly embrace Leftist ideology. Hmmmm . . . What would our analog be of this? I can’t recall one. Perhaps “knock it off, settle down and get a haircut?”
– Darleen – They will soft pedal this just as they did with Wright. It hurts their chosen candidate, and its a bright spotlight on at least a percentage of the rabidly bigoted denizens of the big tent. Its taken a long time, but the Dems habit of loving any nutcase that walks for at least an hour when they vote is finally catching up with them. Chickens coming home to roost is the current popular euphemism. Problem that they have now is some of these crazy assed groups are getting large enough in terms of just numbers, they are starting ti piss in the Dems political post toasties.
– Of course for the party that needs the US to lose so they can win, I don’t have a hell of a lot of sympathy.
I’m electioneering
I can’t stop myself
It’s a new religion
Oh
Woohoo! Good ole Sue from CTU, how do you do…
Or, as we call it, “CTWho? It’s been Jesus-free for years!”
And leave it to a female liberal at a liberal theological institution to get all bitchy about gender.
It IS amazing that the drive-bys are still having orgasms over this enpty headed nitwit. I guess being “brown” releases you from all moral and constitutional obligations in the “Alice In Browm Wonderland” reality of the idiots who refuse to hold ObamaLamaDingDong (thank you, whoever. I don’t remember) responsible for ANYTHING.
But, oh yeah! I am a “racist” for even daring to ask DingDong ANY question at all. I mean, it is quite obvious that I am a racist if I even raise my eyes from the ground when Obana speaks – no matter HOW FUCKING STUPID HE IS!
Vote for the guy in the best suit! That’s what a republic is all about!
BOW DOWN, MOFo’s!
“The idea that you should inflame people’s hatred of one another as a way to mobilize voters has been dominant since 1972 and very powerful.—
I personally place it back in 1964 and blame the Bill Moyers “Daisy” ad.
Of course that would be one of those “history started when I was born” things as I know Presidential elections have been like that since Washington stepped down.
Heh. Back for more. Just happened to click on her bio:
Her area of expertise is contextual theologies of liberation, specializing in issues of violence and violation. An ordained minister of the United Church of Christ since 1974, the “On Faith†panelist is the author or editor of thirteen books and has been a translator for two translations of the Bible. Her works include Casting Stones: Prostitution and Liberation in Asia and the United States (1996) and The New Testament and Psalms: An Inclusive Translation (1995).
Well, it doesn’t get more wacky than that in the theological world nowadays, my friends. The good news is that these folks will soon be relics.
I want to give my monies to a 527 what knows what to do. I want to give them my monies now.
Screw the 527s feet – send your dough to this guy. He’s every damn thing Baracky can never be.
Oh. I swear I know his name from some media Iraq scandal thinger. No? I’ll have to look him up. I might could be all mixed up.
I’ve read a lot of lefty sites and they really, really don’t like evangelicals. They really HATE christian conservatives and they make TEH funny on snake handling.
So I am wondering, when I hear Wright’s emotional diatribes and Pfleger’s bizarre emotional diatribes, is THIS the type of religious gathering the right-wing evangelicals SHOULD be attending? Is that what the democrats have been saying in their dismissive and out right insult to christians?
I’m curious.
It was only a ‘scandal’ to the Copperheads, feet. Give him a little more for action rather than talk.
Oh. Yes. I thought he was cool, but he pled guilty. Or something.
No big deal really. Just that his name was ringing a bell and all.
– Wasn’t that guy the one who inspired the role of Jack D. Ripper (Sterling Hayden), Commanding General of Burpelson Air Force Base in “Dr. Strangelove”. You gotta love a commanding officer whos got the stones to blow open a coke machine with his M1.
– BTW, I tried saying “Pfather Pfleger’s pflapdoodle”, three times fast for annunciation practice, but all I got was pflibber-pflubber-pflabber, and a lot of pflem.
I just hate it when liberation theologists attack each other; it’s very un-liberating.
Being a glass half full kinda guy (at least on the weekends, anyway) I see it less as un-liberating than as a situation where I need to go get more popcorn.
Mmmmmmmmm…popcorn. And maybe some pie.
In Texas, authorities scrambled 400 lives because of an anonymous tip; in Chicago, authorities do nothing though video confirms a presidental candidate and his wife raised their children in a cult dedicated to racist brainwashing.
the great Bill O’Rielly, after replaying the priest’s rant again last night, “Umm…well,….Wha-da-ya want me to say?†Stupefied. (Bill O was actually pretty funny)
What do voters take away from the latest circus act? I would like to say that those whom have made up their mind, remain unaffected . I will be supporting Obama myself, but this definitely takes the bloom off the roses.
It’s obvious by now that this congregation meets in His name for political outlet. The rolling in the aisles and chorus’s of Amen! are not praising the message of Christ’s love and salvation, they are an affirmation of a charismatic leader’s political dogma.
I can’t imagine Jesus Christ uttering a single word of the priest’s latest rant. I thought Christians were living and striving to be an image of Christ.
I am having huge problem believing BHO has been a 20 year member of that church for his spiritual guidance. A calculated political move is obvious. Fine, all kinds of people go to church for all kinds of reasons – none of my business.
The real problem with BHO’s conduct, is not the political bent of his church, but the fact that he pretends it’s a church at all. Some of these performances are as close to blasphemy as I imagine one could get. And he sat there 20 years?.
These guys aren’t just coming up with this stuff off the top of their heads……..I’d bet this sermon, or in some similar form, especially the punch lines, has been practiced and delivered dozens of times. These guys know exactly what they’re saying and it’s exact repercussion.
BTW – I’m far from a religious man, this crap even offends me.
“What do voters take away from the latest circus act?”
That Obama is one of the clowns?
sashal, I agree that Obama’s time at Trinity is more for political purposes than spiritual ones. I haven’t seen anything out of there that seems very spiritual or Christian. let’s forget that it’s a ‘church” for a moment and assume it to be a completely political entity. So, looking at that political dogma, do you really want a guy who follows it in the White House?
“So, looking at that political dogma, do you really want a guy who follows it in the White House?”
That’s the thing.
I do not believe he is a follower of the said dogma.
Political expediency for 20 years. He needed the support from the local community for his political future. The time came to move on. POTUS should not be associated with those political preachings of divisiveness..
BTW, Oprah left this church, now I know why.
BHO should do the same. Plenty of normal churches to pick from…
What does it say about Obama, that he hasn’t left yet?
sashal — IIRC, you’ve written that you grew up in the old Soviet Union. What I don’t understand is why you aren’t more wary of Obama, who is deceitful and collectivist in his thinking. Can you explain? BTW, one of the most moving nights of my life was spent around a campfire with a plastered Russian friend who tearfully described how he grew up believing the lies of the USSR. Ever read “The Master and Marguerite?”
Of course I read that great book.
And growing in USSR made me also hateful and sceptical of authorities propaganda , and forced upon the citizens presumed standards and views.
Say ,like the wars we do not need, like fantasies of the milk rivers and supremacy of ideology over pragmatism etc.
I already know what neoconservatism and Bush administration did to our country and others, I already know what Clinton did as well.
My choice is Obama, who I will be sceptical and critical as well if he will deserve that.
BHO should have left Trinity no later than the day he was elected to the Senate. But he didn’t.
Judgement?
growing in USSR made me also hateful and sceptical of authorities propaganda , and forced upon the citizens presumed standards and views…
My choice is Obama…
Given the collectivist mentality and intellectual intolerance of America’s mainstream media and academic communities, why would you feel comfortable supporting a president who will be protected by them, given your hate of authorities’ propaganda and the forcing of views upon the citizenry?
Master and Marguerite — terrific!
Pablo, I agree, bad judgement in this case
Obama’s election will only empower the sorts who speak Black Liberation Theology.
Of course Baracky knew this; his only concern is that these wackos spewed prematurely.
If they are this confident and arrogant now (to speak in front of video cameras and microphones, not caring who hears them) imagine their volume later, when Baracky assumes his throne.
There will be no letup; an endless parade of these Leftist BLT propagandists.
And, Farrakhan.
We’ll need Separation of Church and Hate. And, separation of TUCC from their Tax Exemption status.
“Given the collectivist mentality and intellectual intolerance of America’s mainstream media and academic communities”
is that an established fact, sweeping generalization or the convenient talking point?
btw, what do you think the reaction of Mikhail Bulgakov, the author of “Master and Margarita” would have been towards neoconservatism, it’s worship of the strong government and intrusion in other people’ lives?
sashal, you’ve hit on the problem with ‘conservatism’ here in the U.S. since, oh, Bush 1 was elected.
That there is none.
I would never characterize myself as a ‘neo-con’. A dirty word, really.
Did they act like they had been “disrespected”?
…established fact, sweeping generalization or the convenient talking point?
A classic card-carrying liberal (ACLU, Peace Corps, Amnesty International), I watched the cancer of collectivism and intolerance spread in my 20 years working at a major American university. In brief, read the story of Lawrence Summers, former president of Harvard.
But you didn’t answer my question about your comfort with Obama and his academic and media nomenclatura.
…what do you think the reaction of Mikhail Bulgakov, the author of “Master and Margarita†would have been towards neoconservatism, it’s worship of the strong government and intrusion in other people’ lives?
I don’t know his biography well enough to say. I doubt he’d respond very well, however, to being told the president is going to “expect” him to work for the state.
OK, I don’t know how Russian women are about their husbands avoiding yard work to blog, but Yankee women from Cleveland get pissed. Gotta go.
Sashal, have you ever had a thought that didn’t end with “Bolshevist” or “neocon”?
Christ, you idiot. You’re so blinded by your hatred of Bush you’ll vote for the life-long Marxist. You think it excuses Obama’s attendance at TUCC to say he doesn’t believe what’s “preached” there? He took his kids there. He either agrees with it or doesn’t see anything wrong with it. I don’t know which is worse.
Ah, yes. The “intrusion” of removing a mass-murdering dictator and his rape-room operating sons. Rather leave them at the tender mercies of evil, eh?
Who are Obama’s non-radical friends?
Of course they did, Rob. Although clapping, cheering and “amening” is a curious way to communicate how one is unhappy about being “disrespected.”
As a white opporessor, this is probably something I wouldn’t understand, even if I paid reparations.
Who are Obama’s non-radical friends?
Indeed. I think these outbursts from the pulpit are rallying cries to the troops in the trenches, as much as anything.
[…] I hadn’t realized that our pal the self-hating whitey was an actual Catholic priest. Anyway, for once, William Donohue is on the right side. […]
Then sashal, why would you want someone this calculating (he didn’t believe this but used it) but so full of bad judgment (not understanding how TUCC would be received, let alone its preachers and guest preachers) in the White House?
Shit almighty, man! Supporting Sen. Obama makes no sense whatsoever!