Excitable Andy buys into the punditry by anecdote found in a Financial Times article that presents a 67-year-old retired coalminer who “heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife’s an atheist,†as representative of why Barack Obama is likely going to get creamed in West Virginia tomorrow and in Kentucky next week. Granted, he did not plumb the depths of dumb reached by Soros hack Oliver Willis or Auguste at Pendagon, but it says something that Brad at S,N! has a better grip on reality than Sullivan.
For example, Sully proposes that Obama spend the summer engaging and listening to rural non-college educated white folk to correct their racial and religious misperceptions. First, the small percentage who thinks Obama is a Muslim are not going to be persuaded to vote for him once they find out that he spent two decades with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright as his spiritual adviser.ÂÂ
Second, the attitude in the illiterate e-mail Sully supposedly got on this topic — if at all representative of the rural vote — is not going to be altered by the candidate who still believes that small town Americans cling to guns and God for economic reasons and thinks his only mistake was that he expressed that thought poorly.
As the campaign has worn on, voters have come to see Obama as more liberal and less appealing to the religiously observant. The electorate is already becoming more informed. It is the Obamaton pundits whose perceptions are becoming more warped.
(h/t Memeorandum.)
Update: Daniel Larison adds:
[T]he expectation that Muslims would respond well to Obama’s election is precisely the kind of thing that feeds into this claim that Obama is Muslim and increases his difficulties in the election campaign.
And Sully is one of the prime offenders in advancing that quite debatable expectation. Ironic.
Baracky gets less appealing every day I think. It’s a lot cause you hardly ever say hey I wonder what Baracky thinks about this or that cause it’s always the same tired social justicey hopey changey crap I think. It’s very inspiring, same as it was last week and the week before and also the week before that. There’s a reason Mariah Carey is up to only releasing cds every three years now. It’s cause she gets stale really fast. Like when you forget to put that twistie thing on the bread before you put it up. Same with corn chips.
Excitable Andy clueless? Water is wet. Nishit is childish. Oliver Willis is bigger than the Redskin’s entire offensive line, combined.
His excitableness is an elitist.
It isn’t just Andy, Oliver and most of the rest of the Leftosphere, the entire Democratic Party establishment is clueless about the “flyover country” rural vote… and has been for years.
[…] Protein Wisdom – Andrew Sullivan still clueless on the rural vote [Karl] […]
“These degenerate offspring of Morlocks can vote? And you want me to campaign here and possibly…touch them? No way, man!”
but it says something that Brad at S,N! has a better grip on reality than Sullivan.
Brad? You mean there are men at SN? Are there male Code Pink members too?
NTTIAWWT, just an anthropological question…
test
“a 67-year-old retired coalminer who “heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife’s an atheist,—
He must read the New York Times:
“As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin
For example, Sully proposes that Obama spend the summer engaging and listening to rural non-college educated white folk to correct their racial and religious misperceptions
Yes, Andrew. That will go over quite well, I think. But let’s stop and consider the Barack’s past as precedent for this suggestion. Specifically, let’s consider Barack’s “Have you seen the price of arugula at Whole Foods?” moment during the campaign.
Now let’s put Barack in a series of white non-educated, lower class situations and ponder Barack’s reactions.
At the VFW –
“So, tell me again the point of pushing these colored pucks down that length of wooden table?”
At the laundromat
“I find watching the clothes tumble in the dryer to be somewhat relaxing, don’t you?
At the diner:
“Belgian waffle with Devon Double Cream butter on the side, if the maple is Fancy A, I’d like some of that, too. Coffee – and please make sure the cup is clean.”
At the fishing hole:
“Don’t you find this whole exercise somewhat pointless and barbaric?”
At the gun club:
“Goodness! Just how many guns do you need to protect that pickup truck?”
—-
Your strategy will work out *just* *fine*, Andrew.
Just fine.
I don’t have to ask WV voter or NY Times.
My wife still thinks that Obama is a Muslim.
Once a muslim is always a muslim even if one converts. That is very common understanding in Russian Orthodoxy, especially when they have been neighbors with Muslim world for thousand years and had history of constant conflicts and wars with them.
FWIW, Dre, Edward Luttwak is an “op-ed contributor” and doesn’t necessarily speak for the NYT. That said, I don’t particularly care what the NYT believes or doesn’t believe, as an institution. Nor does it matt3er to me whether Obama is or ever was a Muslim.
However, there is something to what Luttwak says about how the Muslim world would look at a President Obama. Imagine the cartoon riots, 24/7 for four long years. And proceed from there.
A Jeremiah Wright here! A “guns and bitter” comment over there! Just pay no attention to losing a war that was pointless, a crumbling economy based on existing policies or a deeply divided country who thinks that there are two “teams” in America and one or the other is always wrong.
Nice form on the Obama fellatio, there, JJ. You a journalist?
@ Kelly
Perfect example of what I’m talking about. I’m not for Obama. In fact, as this process started I was going to vote Republican.
Nah, JJ is bringing Americans together with hopey rhetoric.
riiiiight. MOBY!
Or perhaps a hint of nor laup.
Lifelong Republican? Born a Republican?
Yeah. Sure.
he did not plumb the depths of dumb reached by Soros hack Oliver Willis
You’d have to be a well-digger, two three coal miners and have a couple union steamfitters on staff to match that, and I think you’d still be paying overtime.
Al: Don’t forget the oxygen tanks and the canary.
The problem Obama would have with these middle America “non-college” white voters is that though they may not have his wife’s degrees, they are pretty quick to spot a phony and they do not suffer fools like Obama very well. Add to that his true lack of appreciation for America and Obama would lose many more voters than he could fool.
His best bet would be to stay hidden and let his MSM butt-kissers do their messiah portraits all summer. The more he is seen and the more questions he actually has to answer the closer to Mondale he will grow.
@ Karl
Hopey Rhetoric? All I did was point out that the things mentioned in this article are not nearly important as a candidates approach to foreign policy and the economy. Where do you get hopey rhetoric?
@ Rob Crawford
Yet another perfect example of what’s wrong with this country. Why on earth do you think it’s a good idea to join one of two “teams”, at the beginning of your life no less, and vote for that team in every election regardless of who the candidate is.
Sheesh. Are you really trying to put me down for examining all the candidates and deciding for myself which one I want to vote for based on things like foreign and economic policy?
This country is in big big trouble.
I’m going to take a wild guess that Obama is not going to be hanging at any VFW’s or hunting lodges any time soon. He’s just not a shot and beer guy.
I’d pay for the entertainment value to see both Barack and Michelle at a local CART racing event taking questions from the peasants. Now that would be a popcorn and beer moment.
if you like Obama’s, whatever it is, yes.
What “process” are you referring to, JJ?
Because the only “process” I see this time is the same “process” I saw in ’00 and ’04, to say nothing of every presidential election of my adult life: the MSM attempting to install a Dem in the WH. The only difference this time around is press’s non-too-subtle, psychosexual frisson with the putative nominee.
OK, so I blew (oops) the plural possessive on “press.” Interestingly, it just created the ultimate metaphor, because there is no denying press’ plural possessive of the O-man.
Obama = Orgasm.
Some visual cortex-context:
Rural West Virginian
From Rick Lee’s blog
No wonder William Jefferson Clinton is so pissed these days.
@ Maggie katzen
You don’t know what it is, but you are against it. You just admitted that you are irrational.
@ Kelly
By “process” I mean not listening to anyone in the media, most of whom are clueless whether they lean left or right, actually understanding what a candidate wants to do on issues that are important to the country and then making an informed decision.
can you tell me what it is? actually, cause I know, it’s raising capital gains taxes, for FAIRNESS! it’s giving me already filled out tax forms! it’s taxing “windfall profits” it’s giving my hard earned taxes to people for healthcare. and his foreign policy is equally stupid. but please, do try to enlighten me.
@ Maggie
You don’t really know what you are talking about, that’s for sure. Let’s forget about the fact that you think his foreign policy is “stupid” for a second, and I’ll explain to you why whoever the candidate is, raising taxes is not an option, it’s necessary.
If you check the health of the national economy, you’ll see that during the GWB administration, we’ve gone from the highest surplus to the biggest deficit in history. This war we are fighting…we literally can’t afford it. We are literally borrowing money from China every day.
You do understand the basics of debt, correct? That means that each and every day, CHINA owns more of the United States. Yes, they OWN more of us every day. And you may have missed that with all of the banks losing money in the housing crisis, they are selling big chunks of themselves to ARAB countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE. And because we are leveraging our country, the value of the dollar is falling and falling and falling.
The US dollar is now worth less than the Canadian dollar! Think about that.
Go through your history books and see what happens to countries when their economic underpinning collapses and then look at the falling dollar. Tell me what conclusion you come to.
Anyone who votes to NOT raise taxes doesn’t understand the reality of the situation.
but, our revenue has increased thanks to lower taxes.
by .00579 dollars! OMG!!!
this war is also a lower percentage of GDP than, say, social security, so what is it we can’t afford? government bennies won’t do you much good if your dead.
oh, and Karl, bang on, on the nor luap call.
and again, on revenue, Obama was told during a debate that raising capital gains taxes would decrease revenue and he DIDN’T CARE. it’s not about revenue, it’s about FAIRNESS.
@ Maggie
You are incorrect, which is not surprising since you’ve already indicated that you make up your mind without knowing all the facts.
Carry on.
But that’s hilarious. We’re only worth slightly less than the Canadian dollar, so no worries, right? Everything is just fine under the Bush administration!
oh? you have something to prove otherwise?
We are literally borrowing money from China every day.
Dear super smart financial guy: Every payday my bank borrows a couple hundred dollars from me, should I be worried about their financial situation?
test
Oh, so this entails dropping by here and essentially regurgitating lefty talking points? You sound no different than any other vapid entertainer-type, sanctimonious academic, or, *spit* journalist. But because I’m a giving type, here’s my terse summary of the three candidates with historical allegory:
Hillary Clinton — Nixon in a pantsuit
John McCain — Kerry but with authentic Vet status
Barack Obama — McGovern with a deep tan
yeah, I figure if I got people that don’t bother with the exchange rate on an expense report, it’s not a big deal.
JJ,
This war we are fighting, it’s cost each year is a fraction of the deficits that are being run, so it’s not the boogy man that you’d like it to be.
China does not own us. They own bonds issued by us. There are more bonds to be purchased in teh Bush administration than there were in the Clinton admistration, because we aren’t persuing the economic sleight of hand of purchasing our own bonds on the open market.
The one thing you get right is that the weakness of the dollar is the result of deflation, a decline in the money supply. That’s caused by the various bubbles that have burst over the last decade, not who’s buying bonds. When the oil market speculative bubble blows, hold on to your hat.
@ B Moe, aka not so smart financial guy
1) Your money, and that bank, are insured by the FDIC, so the literal answer is no.
2) But even if that money wasn’t guaranteed and insured, did you really just try to compare borrowing a couple hundred dollars to borrowing TRILLIONS!?!? Holy smokes!
Our national deficit is increasing by over $1B EVERY DAY.
Federal Spending is rising twice as fast as taxes. How is it a good idea to cut taxes?
how is it not a good idea to instead cut spending?
Unfortunately, not much intelligent conversation on this blog. I guess I’m just full of “lefty talking points” even though I wanted to vote Republican in this election.
As I said, this country is in big trouble. Buh bye.
ah, declare victory and run away!
“and run away”
Maggie,
I believe “sound” to be the correct verb here. No legs and all that…
See ya. Seemed like a nice enough chap.
Coupla exit questions, if you will.
1)What ever gave you the idea that coming to PW might persuade you to vote Republican?
2)China buys a lot of our paper. If they decided to disinvest, what sovereign country’s paper would be a good alternative?
3)Who insures the FDIC and how much in reserves do they have typically per annum? No peeking!
See how I used your format? Pretty cool, huh?
Wait, JJ! Come baaaack! You forgot to address Hopey McChangey’s admission that raising capital gains taxes was all about teh fairness, as opposed to teh raising of revenues!
Darnit, I hate it when they do that.
Too bad he left, I was going to ask him how he anticipated that devalued dollar to affect the trade imbalance he is worried about. I am sure many CAPS and exclamation points would have been involved in the answer.
1) is a total givaway of the basis of your philosophy, JJ–government is the answer to everything.
You’ve grossly overstated the current level of deficits, by about double. 2007’s defict was $162 bn. Which incidenally only a little more than what has been spent on the war so far (the whole thing, not just the Iraq campaign). In fact, deficits, despite tax decreases have been declining since 2001.
None of which squares with your statements. I’m taking my numbers from the CBO. What sources are you relying on?
The US dollar is now worth less than the Canadian dollar!
Yeah, but it’s worth 103 yen, 4.8 Danish kroner, and 1.04 Swiss francs!
Guess there must be folks starving in the streets in Tokyo, Copenhagen, and Zurich, eh?
Hint: a weak dollar isn’t a universally bad thing.
even though I wanted to vote Republican in this election.
Sure you did.
As a Moby, you’re well below the norm.
Measured how? Over what period? This must be a talking point quote. It’s vapid enough to be a direct campaign speech quote. Suggest you learn to do your own research.
How is it not a good idea to reduce spending while raising taxes a little bit? How is it not a good idea to pay now instead of allowing compound interest to double the bill for what we owe?
Lowering taxes does not always increase tax revenue. Anyone who says as much is a fool.
I don’t think JJ was really all that jazzed about voting Republican, do you?
Raising taxes does nto always raise tax revenue. Anyone who implies as much is a tool.
and you’ll note I was careful not to say that. but currently, lower taxes have increased tax revenue.
Sorry, I just couldn’t let this gem go:
So reminiscent of the old saw, “If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.”
Ya gots to luv teh moby! Bounce into the site, quote a whole bunch of Dem talking points without attribution, state at least two times that the country is in”real trouble,” spout more talking points without sourcing, plead that he wanted to vote Rethuglican and we’ve all failed to give him “intelligent commenting, throw up cyberhands and run away.
Is there a manual available for boilerplate mobying?
Other factors also operate. A growing economy will increase revenues whether taxes ae cut or not.
Taxes, however, also alter behavior, which also has somehting to do with whther they result in an increase or decrease in revenues.
“Seminar commenter?”
Actually, JJ, I was making fun of the Moby pretension of being a “lifelong Republican”, then spouting Democrat talking points, and being incapable of expressing anything they actually agree with Republicans. Like “nishi” and “sashal”.
For myself, I switched party allegiances once, and if I need to, I will again.
Stump a progressive: ask him to explain why CG tax is not a voluntary tax.
You realize that the strong dollar is a relatively new development, right? And that the pound sterling has ALWAYS been worth more than a dollar?
That’s just crazy talk. You mean static analysis is…misleading?
For myself, I switched party allegiances once
To my shame, I voted for Bill the first time, and didn’t even vote in Clinton v. Dole or Bush v. Gore.
Things changed on 9/11. As with so many others, I realized just how lucky we were that Gore wasn’t President.
OMG!!!!!
Hey, I’ve got an idea! Let’s cancel Medicare! That’s $1B EVERY DAY saved right there! Or maybe Social Security — we’ll actually turn a profit then!
Defense spending is less than 1/4th of the Federal budget, and that’s including supplemental expenditures for Iraq and Afghanistan. And unlike social spending, defense is actually a Constitutional duty.
Obama says plans to increase capital gains for 15% to 20%. Shiver!
for = from
pssst, Rob, ixnay on the onstitutioncay.
#54
Compound interest also grows capital saved.
Money in the hands of private citizens is preferable to money in the hands of goverment. Governments will always spend more than they have, so it is incumbent on the private citizen to give the government as little as is legally possible. Why? Because governments cannot create or build wealth. That lies in the hands of private citizens. Prosperity comes from the private sector, not the public sector. Taxes limit choice.
I used to be a Dem as well. Fortunately, I was too lazy to vote back then.
And when informed that this would decrease revenue, he said he’d still do it.
So why does he want to do it? Do you know?
No thor. Obama says he plans to increase capital gains from 15% to 28%.
Even if one accepts the incomplete analysis of the CBO in their study of Capital Gains, even they say that 20% is probably the breakover point for maximum revenue. I haven’t finished redoing their analysis yet.
Um, that’s not what he said. He said he wanted to raise the rate back to what is was under Clinton. Try 28%. And explain to me how CG taxes ARE NOT voluntary. If that’s too much a task for you, explain how investor behaviour WILL NOT change if the rate is increased.
Given that Obama is a smart motherfucker, I suppose he might have told the “informer” they were full of shit and advised them to go and stand over in the short line of typical uneducated white people wanting to vote for Hillary.
Nothing says smart like referring to Israel as a constant sore that infects all of our foreign policy.
O!
The Treasury reported on the budget today. Even with the slowing economy, revenues totaled $403.7 billion in April. This is the highest monthly total going back to at least 1998 and I believe it is probably a record high.
In case you think one month can be discounted as a fluke, receipts for the fiscal year to date (begun last October) totaled almost $1.55 trillion, also the highest for the seven-month period going back to 1998 and probably the highest in the history of the budget.
Remember that the tech bubble was at full tilt in the late 1990s. Also consider that inflation has not been great enough in that time to account for the difference. The average first seven-month totals for fiscal years 1998 – 2000 was about $1.0 trillion.
#76
So. You nuthin’, huh.
Screw C.G., wait until we see the litigation arising from individually wealthy people trying to die on 31 December 2010, instead of 1 January 2011. Odd as it seems, it is being anticipated.
Obama is an intelligent fool, in love with his own hype. It isn’t so much that he brings something new to the table, it is just that he didn’t consider the crappy Leftist tropes important until he said them in his pausey, fits-and-starts manner of speaking.
Let me add that I don’t think it unimportant that about a Billion people, and both Sunni and Shi’a, consider Obama an apostate Muslim. He said the Shahada with conviction. Under the Shar’ia, he is, in fact, still a Muslim.
Therefore, it is dishonest to state that statements to the effect that Obama may be a Muslim are the result of ignorance and bigotry.
@JJ
Hey, bobo!
Are you a shill sent over here by the Obama campaign? My guess is that you probably are, or at least wish you were.
You are so full of crap that it is making me gag. I love it when people say to me: “Don’t believe your own eyes and ears, believe ME!”
Your oh-so-reasonable tone is just not enough to disguise the manure that is wildly spewing from your comments. I can hear The Big O with my own ears, and see him with my own eyes. His approach to foriegn affairs is juvenile, at best (History, history, history), and his approach to domestic matters is one inch (if that much) right of Marxism (History, history, history). AND I KNOW THIS BY OBAMA’S OWN, AND (ESPECIALLY) HIS WIFE’S STATEMENTS. I DON’T NEED AN OBAMA SHILL TO TELL ME I DIDN’T HEAR WHAT I HEARD, OR DIDN’T SEE WHAT I SAW. I AM NOT AS STUPID AS THOSE WHO FEREVENTLY AND EMPTY-HEADEDLY BELIEVE IN HOPEY-CHANGEY EMPTY SUIT BULLSHIT!
You are in the absolute wrong place if you think you can pull this bullshit on the people at PW.
Unfortunately for you, ninety percent of the people here could eat your lunch for you, intellectually. This ain’t HufPo, bro.
Go back to the campaign, Bobo. You are busted! And, in your favor, I must admit that you’ve got brass balls, but that doesn’t go on the scorecard here. They’re actually pretty common around here.
I think your blow-snot-at the-poor-morons attitude has pissed me off mightily. I can’t believe you have the hair to try and tell me my eyes and ears decieve me, or that I am not smart enough to understand what I see – and that I need YOU to explain what I REALLY see. Don’t make me laugh.
I know exactly what I see. I see a presidential candidate that shouldn’t even be running the corner gas station, much less the United States Of America. Charisma is one thing, but a flawed understanding of the real world and an inclination to punish those who have busted their backs to have a good life is another. Obama should just come out and say it: “Equal misery for all!” This man is anathema to the values most of us grew up with. Yeah, yeah. Give me a punch now for being selfish. That’s where you’re coming from, right?
But, no. I don’t think my senses and common sense have failed me. I think you are the deciever here, JJ. Or maybe just naive beyond belief…
But I doubt it. You are no dummy, and you are as smooth as silk. But I just have this feeling that you didn’t pop up at PW by accident. I may be wrong, but I have run into paid shills before on some newsgroups, and after about your third message, my radar started wailing…”INCOMING!”.
You are just way TOO good at making baloney sandwiches…
Happy Tuesday, JJ Bobo. I may be wrong, but even if I am, I’m not very far from being right. You are too intelligent to be throwing such stupidity around.
If it’s Mexico, we bail them out. If it’s Asia or the US we ride it out and bounce back. Does October 29, 1929 ring a bell? How about 1997?
If you check the health of the national economy, you’ll see that during the GWB administration, we’ve gone from the highest surplus
Highest imaginary, paper, hopefully-forecast surplus, he meant. I think the left/media said the surplus was bound to be at least ElevEntY BuZillyun Dollarrrrrrrrrs! Yet it never happened — the national debt continued to rise every year, even in the Clinton/Republican Congress period.
[…] Sullivan spends time concerning himself about how best to educate the backward-ass hicks, what with their bitterness and their god and […]
got
Ping
Given that Obama is a smart motherfucker….
Yeah, he is a goddam financial genius:
http://tinyurl.com/5nwwkg
Fairness, man. That’s what’s happening now, you dig?