The Huffington Post carries a piece from Celeste Fremon about what Hillary Clinton says in secret:
At a small closed-door fundraiser after Super Tuesday, Sen. Hillary Clinton blamed what she called the “activist base” of the Democratic Party — and MoveOn.org in particular — for many of her electoral defeats, saying activists had “flooded” state caucuses and “intimidated” her supporters, according to an audio recording of the event obtained by The Huffington Post.
***
The disclosure of Clinton’s statement disparaging the prominence of party activists in the caucus process comes after she repeatedly suggested that Obama’s electability had been compromised because he had allegedly offended other key Democratic constituencies.
The HuffPo also has a companion post by Jane Hamsher, headlined “Hillary Clinton Slams MoveOn With Karl Rove’s Lies,” though her piece does not actually go that far — perhaps because there is plenty of evidence that Rove was correct in saying that MoveOn did in fact oppose the war in Afghanistan.  In contrast, Obama’s insult toward voters in the heartland was largely inaccurate. But I digress.
In the now time-honored tradition of the blogosphere, I question the timing. And a bit more than that, but you will have to read the whole post, because I am a tease.
The disclosure of Clinton’s comments comes after she started attacking Obama’s electablity, but it also comes after Barack Obama’s comments to donors about “small town” folks “clinging” to God and guns out of economic distress gave him a political headache ahead of the Pennsylvania primary. That story was thought to be all the more damaging for having originated at the generally Obama-friendly HuffPo, where blogger Mayhill Fowler agonized over reporting the comments after attending the fundraiser.
Following Obama’s poor performance at the ABC News Democratic debate on Wednesday — the first part of which dealt with electability and character questions — the HuffPo has featured a torrent of stories and posts bashing the network and debate moderators Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopolous for asking them. However, as John F. Harris and Jim VandeHei write at the Politico:
In fact, the balance of political questions (15) to policy questions (13) was more substantive than other debates this year that prompted no deluge of protests. The difference is that this time there were more hard questions for Obama than for Clinton.
Moreover, those questions about Jeremiah Wright, about Obama’s association with 1960s radical William Ayers, about apparent contradictions between his past and present views on proven wedge issues like gun control, were entirely in-bounds. If anything they were overdue for a front-runner and likely nominee.
If Obama was covered like Clinton is, one feels certain the media focus would not have been on the questions, but on a candidate performance that at times seemed tinny, impatient, and uncertain.
Are Harris and VandeHei correct? Is the same bias at work now? Clinton apparently made these comments after Super Tuesday, but before the Texas prima-caucus, which was held on March 4, 2008. Prior to Friday, Fremon had not posted at the HuffPo since December 3, 2007. Unlike Fowler, who attended the fundraiser and recorded Obama’s comments, Fremon writes only that the Clinton audio was “obtained by The Huffington Post.”  ÂÂ
Clinton adviser Howard Wolfson vouches for the authenticity of the recording, but the intentional ambiguity of Fremon’s piece raises interesting questions.  Did the HuffPo have this audio for some time?  If so, did the HuffPo report the Clinton story now out of guilt over the Obama story? If not, why does the Clinton story fail to disclose — even in general terms — when, how and from whom the audio was obtained? Did someone volunteer the audio to the HuffPo or did the Obama-friendly site make efforts to solicit a “make up” story to damage Clinton?
The sudden appearance of the Fremon piece makes me almost as curious about what goes on behind closed doors at the HuffPo and OffTheBus as what goes on at Democratic fundraisers. OTB’s co-publisher, Jay Rosen, is an advocate for media transparency, whether it is at the New York Times or his own PressThink. Indeed, Rosen posted a lengthy backstory of Fowler’s OTB piece. Perhaps he will do the same to answer the obvious questions raised about the Fremon piece.
(h/t Memeorandum.)
When the Left is done with their candidates, we will know who are the sexists, and who are the racists, and the Dem candidates will not be electable as the local dogcatcher.
Karl – I have no doubt whatsoever that the HuffPo whackos have sat on this waiting for what they considered to be an advantagous time for Baracky.
I find it disturbing to agree with Hillary, and ironic that the organzation started to defend a Clinton has turned on them.
I had exactly the same impression, Karl, reading them last night.
They are trying to make themselves look equally unbiased towards both of the candidates( though everybody in the world knows HuffPo is strongly pro-Obama )and kinda mentally compensate for perceived damage to Obama campaign by SF revelations.
But if true, Clinton’ remarks disparage a certain segment of a pro-left electorate of democratic party, Obama’s words on the other hand can be construed as insulting to a large swaths of the population- dems, independents and repubs…
I would also like to add that from my perspective I am disappointed with the level of discourse our media is trying to shove down our throats- petty, unsubstantial, out of contest quotes etc..
How about that 100 years of wars distortion, or lapel pin falsely exaggerated importance and so on…
The media gives the level of discourse demanded by the public and most of them can can only handle “politics-lite.” I don’t know if it was any better before the MTV era of “Rock the Vote” – I suspect not – but with the multitudes now claiming to be interested in politics, the media plays along.
If it weren’t for soundbite political rhetoric, some people would never be able to voice a political opinion.
– The left is indeed, in full-up disarray. I read through the stack of comments on Stoller’s post from yesterday, where he has Gore speaking well about McCains stance on global warming, and you come away with the deep impression that these people hate each other even more than they hate the opposition. They seem to be like rabid dogs that will turn on their own most trusted writers in a heart beat if they are not towing the narrative line religiously. Hampsher is the absolute queen of the rapacious run and gun crowd.
– One thing is patently clear. There is no “coalition” unless you think hate is a good rallying point for a national election, because that seems to be the only thing the Left gaggle has in common with each other.
– The party body elect is split right down the middle, and theres not a shred of evidence that either side will budge a micro inch in their respective positions, and without a plurality of some sort the Dems cannot manage a majority, no matter what lies they tell themselves.
– Now, as if all thats going on was not enough , we have H. Dean demanding the superdelegates immediately decide the issue. Considering what such a move could do to a situation thats already an unimaginable mess, if this is his considered opinion of the best way to go hes a bigger jackass than anyone ever suspected.
– We may be observing the breakdown of a National party nefore our very eyes in real time.
– On a different note, Maher is probably not going to make it. His HBO masters have served notice on him, and his snarky, left-handed non-apology from last night just threw more fuel on his funeral pyre. The suits at the cable outlet have heard the footfalls of “boycott”, canceled subscriptions, and falling revenue, and won’t hesitate to throw him under the production lot tour tram. He has maybe one more shot at absolution, and then he may finally understand that freedom of speech can be costly.
Hamsher’s got it wrong again? And she’s strident about it? Imagine that.
I don’t believe this , Carin.
While some would certainly like to know salacious detail of politicians life, their neighbors, accidental acquaintances , granite counter tops and the color of underwear. Most would prefer to familiarize themselves with their positions-on taxes, health care, war, terrorism etc…
Just because elitist pundits , Washington insiders and TV gasbags think so, does not make it right….
Or let’s put it this way, they should not be pandering to the base feelings, their job is to shed light on serious issues, to educate electorate on important questions of our lives, not the hair cut crap..
The Britney Spears type BS should be left to non-political coverage and channels.
– sashal. I hate to burst one of your shildhood dreams, but the vast majority of the electorate have a passionate hate for politics. Salacious scandal – mo problem.
– Go with that, and then layer MSM slavering partisan bias on top. and all will make somewhat more sense to you.
– Thw thing thats screwing the pooch at this point is, its obvious even the MSM doesn’t know which way to go, or which side to align with.
– When you make your living pandering tripe to an uncaring public, and injecting your own bias into the mix, its really fucked when you can’t decide which horse to back. The least you want to achieve is to be on the winning side in the end, and thats just not clear to anyone at this point, so everyone, even the partisan hacks are confused in this melee’.
It’s worth remembering that Huffington is a cynical opportunist whose right-leaning blog got no attention or readership, so she created one intended to be left-leaning to get more traffic. It worked, too.
Do not depend on Rosen. I used to read and comment at his blog, and his “media transparency” is much more limited than you think. He believes that it is unimportant, or even a good thing promoting “passion”, that newspeople may be biased so long as they make their bias clear to the reading public. Unfortunately he is also firmly of the belief that he and his fellows are “the center” and therefore need not confess bias, and that the proper study of journalists is journalism, which need not contain (and in a way may be contaminated by) data on the fields they are reporting on. The combination means that following his work day-to-day will realize a set of regular procedures very different from the verbalisms he is pleased to emit.
Regards,
Ric
We may be observing the breakdown of a National party before our very eyes in real time
May be this is a good thing, hunter.
If they can split on actual fault lines-socialist/communists, social-democrats(European style-what Barak i think is ), and true liberals it may be good for the country.
Same should be done with GOP.
there are too many various political thoughts gathered under one wide umbrella of political party.
But of course, it will never happen.
The powerful elite loves our two-major party system, makes it so easy for them to play in politics.
Karl,
Patrick Ruffini says McCain is running without a grassroots movement.
The republican grassroots is devoted to Huckabee and Paul.
Are HRC and McCain similiar in that the grassroots movements in there respective parties essentially reject them??
– “Are HRC and McCain similiar in that the grassroots movements in there respective parties essentially reject them??
– Answer: Yes.
– However, the one difference that the Laft is sweating is that a sizable number of the Independents and Conservatives will hold their noses and vote for him, if for no other reason than to kick the Socialists to the curb yet again, whereas on their side the Dems know, can see clearly, that the animus between the two Liberal factions is not going away any time soon.
From the Hamsher piece: MoveOn may not have opposed military action in Afghanistan (according to Eli Pariser in the Washington Post) but I did, because I was quite certain George Bush would bungle it and we’d just wind up spending billions on a bunch of junk that would make his buddies rich and a lot of poor people in the poorest country in the world would die senselessly. Sadly that turned out to be right…
If that outrageous assessment is true (and, of course, it is so demonstrably incorrect on so many levels as to make Jane appear to be a drunken, retarded, crack-hitting lower primate), you’d think she might include a link for something, wouldn’t you? Although, it is much easier just to declare yourself Teh Geenyus and move on quickly.
If someone is brain-damaged enough to read HuffPo regularly, maybe they’ll buy buy that bridge from Jane. We’ll even set aside her vague impression that overthrowing Al Qaeda’s puppets and freeing 30 million people in Afghanistan (what about the Afghan Wymyn, Jane?) somehow wasn’t worth it to her.
But whenever liberals say that they opposed Iraq and Afghanistan, although this is the first time I’ve heard this argument with respect to the 2001 war, on the basis of Bush’s incompetence and the inevitable bungling, my History Revision sense starts to tingle.
There were multiple big protests in 2002-03 leading up to war, and a couple before Afghanistan, and we saw a lot of angry, out-of-power liberals, communists and pacifists marching with their cute little Truth To Power signs, and I can’t recall a single one that ever said, “Go Ahead, Blood For Oil, Iraq Deserves It, There Probably Are WMDs Hidden Somewhere Over There, Bush Does Not Equal Hitler — My Only Concern Is the Ability of This Government to Successfully Execute A War Plan.”
So until Jane hits me with some linkylinky, I’m forced to assume that this argument is nothing more than an embarrassingly desperate lie to semi-literate buffoons about how smart she wants to pretend to be.
Wow, it’s like watching the orcs in Return of the King fight over Frodo’s clothes!
“We needs it. Must have the precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses, wicked, tricksy, false.”
Actually, I’ve reached the tipping point this week. I’m sending just enough money to Captain Queeg to get some bumper stickers. The rest of my money I’ll reserve for the 527 with the pics of Obama bowling with Reverend Wright and Ayers.
– BBR – Jane is just following the handbook steps of historical revision.
– Originally all of the Dems rushed to declare it “Imperative that America strike back swiftly and decisively against the thugs and murderers of Islamofascism”, (e.g – see Climtons empassioned speeches right after 9/11.)
– Then it became fashionable to hammer Afghanistan as “Bush;s great mistake”.
– Then it was switched to “We should be in Afghanistan, not wasting our resources in Iraq”
– Now that Iraq shows some promise, Afghanistan is no longer a positive, so the need to “explain” why she was ever “for” it.
– “History” for the Left is like fresh wet clay.
there are too many various political thoughts gathered under one wide umbrella of political party.
But of course, it will never happen.
The powerful elite loves our two-major party system, makes it so easy for them to play in politics.
We aren’t a parliamentary system where a majority in the legislature means control of the executive powers, Sashal, and we choose representatives from winner-take-all districts. That drives our parties to form coalitions before the election, not afterwards, and drives the big-tent type political party and not the smaller, ideologically focused political party.
It’s inherent in the design of the system, and will not change unless the system itself is changed.
I’m forced to assume that this argument is nothing more than an embarrassingly desperate lie to semi-literate buffoons about how smart she wants to pretend to be.
It seems to me she is profoundly delusional rather than an outright liar, but otherwise a very safe assumption.
Sashal, you need some background. So does the turtle, I think.
I’m sixty years old. Up until my young adulthood, Government as a motive force driving decisions essentially did not exist in our society. It was there on the fringes and had to be accommodated, but economic and lifestyle choices were made without reference to what the Feds were all about. This is original and traditional; Thomas Jefferson once bragged in a letter to a European friend, “What American tradesman or shopkeeper has ever seen a tax-gatherer?” For the vast majority of people, politics was simply irrelevant; the attitude was that the sort of people who liked that sort of thing could get on with their perversion, so long as they didn’t frighten the horses or meddle in things that were none of their damned business. This is a case where hindsight is definitely not 20-20. History is written by people who think politics is important, so when you read accounts of past events you see them from the point of view of that atttitude, so you get a very wrong impression. For instance, they will tell you that the country was divided passionately over JFK’s Catholicism. That’s a lie. It was mildly interesting, but the presence or absence of tailfins on the 1960 new cars was more important to the overwhelming majority of Americans.
All of our institutions and procedures were originally built around that attitude. In particular, the Press was free to treat “politics” as no different from “celebrity” or natural disasters elsewhere — as a sideshow act consisting of amusingly deformed people geeking frogs for the titillation of the paying public. They responded by growing a set of assumptions and resulting procedures based on accommodating those who wanted to attract attention and didn’t give a damn how they had to do it (“there is no such thing as bad publicity”) and selling ads based on exciting spectacle. Reasoned argument about policy, in that view, is boring twaddle, not merely dispensible but something to be actively rejected.
Those halcyon days came to an end in the late Sixties and early Seventies. What put the nail in the coffin was the radical inflation of that period combined with our progressive taxation system — people were shoved higher and higher up the tax-rate ladder without any corresponding increase in actual purchasing power, and the Congress responded to the influx of cash with delight rather than correcting the error. The theoretical tax rate of a person below the poverty line, before “tax credits” and other intricacies designed to ameliorate the worst of the pressure, is what a prosperous doctor or lawyer would have been subject to prior to that time.
Our institutions have not adjusted, and in some ways they cannot. Thanks to the influence of George Washington, political parties have no legal existence under the Constitution; it would take a massive overhaul of our fundamental laws to achieve anything like a Parliamentary system that awards power according to Party affiliation. The result, up to now, has been something remarkably like two competing Parliamentary systems — each of the “big tent” parties was pretty nearly a complete competing Government built along the lines of the Italian Parliament, with broad general attitude differences between the two and individual doctrinal disputes resolved within the parties rather than at the Government level.
What you are now watching is a slow-motion crash, with that entire system getting smashed to bits, tossing shrapnel, and leaking radiation. What will replace it is anybody’s guess, but Big Bang Hunter is correct: it will be at least another generation before the average American begins to differentiate between, say, Barack Obama and Paris Hilton.
Regards,
Ric
“Sen. Hillary Clinton blamed what she called the “activist base†of the Democratic Party  and MoveOn.org in particular  for many of her electoral defeats, saying activists had “flooded†state caucuses and “intimidated†her supporters”
Kinda buried the lede there, Karl. She’s acknowledging the point which you’ve made (very well) more than a few times. BHO has the SEIU, ACORN, ANSWER (hey – isn’t that Howard Dean in the middle of the picture?) “activists” solidly in hand and has whipped her like a rented mule using Alinskyite tactics to grab delegates “by any means possible”. The Soros Moveon morons are a part of it but they’re not the most important part. The core is SEIU/ACORN – you know, the guys BHO was hanging with prior to going on the pad for Rezko and cashing in.
The very same guys who ran the successful 2006 ‘Culture of Corruption’ campaign, hand in hand with Dean. Those guys.
Ric – I would make one correction. It was the 1930’s when the federal government began impacting on the life of most people (outside of wartime). The case of Wickard v. Fillburn is instructive at just how intrusive federal regulation became in a very short time.
thanks, Rick, great informative post.
Of course I measure everything up with my personal experience, although if you take my almost 15 year USA citizen status, natural curiosity to the world events and history(even when I was living in other country), my business standing , my residing and contacting on everyday basis with natural born Americans , my English skills etc, I am not doing too bad for a recent immigrant (that I am not living in one of those self-cooking Russian enclaves in NY or Phila helps too).
it will be at least another generation before the average American begins to differentiate between, say, Barack Obama and Paris Hilton..
I certainly hope this will happen faster.
I remember when perestroika
happened, how millions of people who never cared about anything much, turned into avid political mavens, flocked in great numbers to various gatherings and polling stations.
People watched televised debates from the Congress of deputies(which nobody ever cared before).Of course after just 10-15 years the apathy settled back again, many lost the faith that anything good and liberal can be done to our corrupt system, many were satisfied with improved life conditions etc…
I feel like we are living through the similar times , when people are hungry for a change , improvement, betterment.
I just feel it even through my customers , very unhappy with the years of Bush administration, and I cater to the middle class mostly, not the poor or rich…
I will be honest, personally I did well in the last 8 years, and if not the unnecessary war with Iraq and subsequent attempts at unrestricted executive power grabs and other similar issues (incompetence and political croniism looms big too ), I would have been completely happy (more then with Clinton years)with Bush administration.
regards
SashaL
Ric … I’m fifty-seven. Will you have my children?
– Mikey – Wilsonian economics, and the birth of the “corporate entity” during the 20’s and 30’s laid the groundwork, but FDR made it official using the twin peaks of the Great depression, and WWII as the natural transition point. We came together in common cause, the Fed as a absolute key component of that effort, but when it was done and America went home, the Feds did not. What you see today is the result of that hold over to a large extent, setting aside the part that world events have since played in things.
= Makes you wonder what planet someone has to be from in view of what we already face in a run-away Fed (the absolute bane of our founding fathers) that such a person could sit and wring their hands in gleeful anticipation of a Federally run and controlled health care system. Avarice seems to trump common sense every time.
Hamster sure does like to rewrite history.
sashal – I enjoy you when you are not spewing BDS spittle flecked rants.
Mikey: You’re right, of course, but for a long time there wasn’t a critical mass of bureaucrats accreted around those regulations, and the bureaucrats themselves had the American attitude that the intrusion should be made as painless as possible. The process of conversion was slow enough that most people didn’t notice — the “boiling frog” principle — and because Government took a smaller fraction of the total national wealth, it didn’t have the resources to become really obstreperous. You could point to a lot of things, from industry conversion after WWII through Civil Rights to the beginnings of environmental regulation and the NHTSA, but the real tipping point was the inflation that flooded Washington with cash.
Sashal: No, Obama is not a European-style Social Democrat. The closest analogy you can probably internalize would be the kleptocratic ex-apparatchiks that sprang up after 1989, trying to use the forms and procedures of democracy to maintain their hold on the institutions and industries they’d (mis-)managed as part of the Soviet system, and that’s wrong-end-to: Obama’s trying to gain that grasp, not preserve it. Those guys were fairly quickly sucked into the fatcat-gang system, and that, at least, is an applicable analogy.
Regards,
Ric
kleptocratic ex-apparatchiks that sprang up after 1989, trying to use the forms and procedures of democracy to maintain their hold on the institutions and industries they’d (mis-)managed as part of the Soviet system, and that’s wrong-end-to: Obama’s trying to gain that grasp, not preserve it.
Rick, with all due respect I disagree on that….so far…..
may be I am wrong, time will tell, but I do not see that close the similarities. Like I said, so far..
JD, thank you….
[…] MORE HERE […]
sashal – These two Dems have benn running around telling us their policy positions for over a year. You would have to be deaf, blind, and dumb to not know what they promise on that front. Their policy positions are almost as bad, if not worse than the fluff that you claim they are having to deal with.
JD, you and me may know their positions, we are political junkies.
Many people, who tune to watch debates do not, or have just some bits of info….
And even if so, that’s not the job of the political journalists to dwell in the tabloid junk. There are many other channels and news papers which successfully do so..
Ric,
I’m not depending on Rosen, merely observing whether he lives up to his own rules, if you know what I mean.
Rick,
As for buring the lede, I may get back to the organizational point — I always love me some organization — because I want to see what the MSM actually does with this on the merits. But there has been a lot written about the Fowler piece, the journo-blogger creature, and the rise of the HuffPo this week, so I went with the media criticism angle… for now.
“… Most would prefer to familiarize themselves with their positions-on taxes, health care, war, terrorism etc…
Just because elitist pundits , Washington insiders and TV gasbags think so, does not make it right….
Or let’s put it this way, they should not be pandering to the base feelings, their job is to shed light on serious issues, to educate electorate on important questions of our lives, not the hair cut crap..
The Britney Spears type BS should be left to non-political coverage and channels.”
So, sashal, what color is the sky on your planet?
“- Thw thing thats screwing the pooch at this point is, its obvious even the MSM doesn’t know which way to go, or which side to align with.”
The oh so delicious Schadenfreude of the reactionary left’s identity politics coming home to roost.
“Comment by Salt Lick on 4/19 @ 7:13 am #
Wow, it’s like watching the orcs in Return of the King fight over Frodo’s clothes!”
HAH!
Perfect.
Sashal, what that means is that you can congratulate yourself. You have fully and completely become a participant in the American socioeconomic system. I, too, travel around and speak to the middle class, and you are absolutely typical — you’ve done well, and so have almost everyone else, but thanks to the Press you are fully convinced that all those other poor bastards out there are suffering and Something Must Be Done. Plot unemployment, total compensation, and/or the stock market for 2000 vs. 2008 in constant dollars; all the later curves are higher and less bumpy to boot. The actual overall economic situation at the moment is at least as good as, if not better than, the Days of Wine and Roses toward the end of the Clinton Administration, and doesn’t have a bubble holding it up, but you’d never know it from the Press.
To wrench this back to the original subject of the post — the Press’s infatuation with Obama can be partly explained by “bias”, yes, but the question is: why do their bosses go along with it? Individual reporters may be biased; their bosses, and their clearer-thinking comrades, should be able to provide a countervailing force, and they are not doing so. Why?
Because they see it as leading to better days ahead. Remember that they’ve chosen titillation, excitement, newness and novelty as the basis of their business plan. They’d like to see Obama in office precisely because they see him as divisive — they are anticipating throngs of the Masses lining up at the newsstands, anxious to pay high for the latest account of the embroglios between the Forces of Changeyhopiness and the Reactionary Old Guard. From their point of view it is no different from the latest exciting episode in J-Lo’s love life, and they know damn well that that sells papers (and ad space).
They will be disappointed. Their business plan puts them in competition not with better political commentary, but with pornography. Titillation need not involve actual mammaries, to the distress of those following the Ace of Spades Lifestyle™, but there’s no particular reason to follow the Special Olympics of Sex (as Anna Marie Cox a/k/a “Wonkette” characterized it) when there are, in fact, mammaries to be ogled. Once upon a time “the news” actually contained substance (I’m not sure that’s really true, but we were able to pretend it did), and those who didn’t give a damn but vaguely understood that that was irresponsible could cover themselves by reading the Press. They understood that the movers and shakers, the people they cheerfully acknowledged were more influential than they, read the Paper for the information that they themselves found boring; they followed suit in order to pretend that they, too, had some influence based on participation, but skimmed over the boring, substantive stuff in order to get to the comics and the car-crashes. The influential no longer pay much attention to the MSM, partly because they now have more direct sources, and partly because the information simply isn’t there. The masses, as a result, no longer have any reason to pretend, and consequently be satisfied with the mild titillation the Press allows itself. Much easier to simply hunt down a Web site with Hot! Girl on Girl! Action!
But the Press will never believe that, because it believes its own propaganda. In the guise of reporting car-crashes, they have progressed to leaving tacks in the road and stealing curve signs in order to generate more and better ones. That’s why the Press is “in the tank” for Barack. They expect nothing good from it, and from their point of view that’s a wonderful thing, because they can make a lot of money reporting the sturm und drang.
Regards,
Ric
Ah, irony. Don’t you think you’d do better with broad farce? It’s all the rage these days.
Regards,
Ric
“Those halcyon days came to an end in the late Sixties and early Seventies.”
1860s or 1960s?
Very unique perspective of history, Ric. I would say that politics were much more passionate during the years before the American Civil war than they are now. It was the Organized Sport of the day. Crackle Barrel disputes, Post Office jobs (only real jobs around in many rural parts with an actual wage), Lines at the White House for patronage jobs, Govt. was on the people’s tongue more than in the 1960s or 1970s while the “Media” gave us are present day world of Bread and Circuses (minus mostly the Bread). Passion? Civil War, reminding you.
Paris Hilton? Could have been a damn good name for some rotgut back in the day. Paris Hilton Liquor of Refined Elegance, 100 Proof, made of finest Kentucky Oaken Flecked Goodness.
‘course only men of substance’ could vote in the day, gender and poll taxes kept the dirt poor tenant farmer on the field votin’ day. Blacks and women forget it. Obama, me thinks has a better grasp of that historical record than the lot of us, him being Educated and all.
also, data doesn’t compute with the rosy perception of economics you’ve given. Most people were borrowing against their homes Foolishly imo to keep that “middle class” standard alive. It all really started going down about two years ago when their home prices started to stagnant and house flips in LA, and Florida and Lost Wages weren’t flipping so fast and then the Big Wigs on the street really melted down last August. Over-leveraged, unregulated ‘securities’. Seems the ‘securities’ weren’t so secure. 200 to 400 Trillion or so (but big #s) of phony derivatives… that CityBanc et al claim are there but are they?
– Hmmm. Seems not all jerks can be yanked back on topic.
Ric, actually a lot of people did well, but they are in the investor class and oddly many are Govt. people, ex-Military especially. Vietnam vets in particular if they were lifers retired in the early 00’s and and now are collecting double or triple payments for investments and govt. pensions and former contract work (more pensions from KBR and Bechtal in particular). Odd how history has reversed, the most well-off people I know are ‘Nam vets living off govt. pensions plus damn good returns on the stock market up ’til about a year ago. My old man had his best decade of income growth due to his govt. pension finally being invested w/o dishonest brokers (who really screwed people back in the Reagan/Bush 1 era) remember ‘churning’?
But the Investor class is a minority despite what you think. The vast majority of investments are for the top 1 percent.
Who’s hurting? People who work for their daily necessities. Any wage scale work has been losing ground against inflation all through Bush 2’s term even when the stock market was doing good. 401 Ks haven’t been doing as well as they should either (due to the broker’s skimming a lot of fees not accounted for when they sold these gadgets.)
Also younger people who only started working in about 2000 have no basis to compare with as it all seems better than when they started as it should. But they are hurting even more than olders as the wages are actually going down now for entry level work (due to fuel inflation and organized anti labor initiatives: i.e. the Republican Party) and with each layoff they have to start over again.
I know, in my heart of hearts, that Obama would have opposed the Afghan war. Someone just has to find where he said it out loud.
eh, what was that subject? Chelsea Clinton?
hope we’ve turned her off of politics, I think Ric said that she’s Hillary’s only friend.
She gets a cake job in a Hedge Fund company fresh outta college. That’s sooooo good for the Democratic Image doncha think?
Ric … I’m fifty-seven. Will you have my children?
(giggles)
I am enjoying this period of life too as Jane Fonda had it right! About Sex, not adoption.
Then you won’t have any problem providing links to rational sources that bolster your point. So far, all you do (all you ever do) is prattle on with the latest talking points from NPR.
[…] killed cops; just like Ayers. Guilt-ridden HuffPo atoning for sins against the Obamessiah? [Karl] Bookmark […]
[…] Dude, Karl Rove’s like Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars. You strike him down from the White House, and he goes on Fox becomes more powerful than you could possibly imagine. […]
[…] Dude, Karl Rove’s like Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars. You strike him down from the White House, and he goes on Fox becomes more powerful than you could possibly imagine. […]
As to pre-Civil War politics, I don’t see anything there that invalidates my thesis. The nastiest wrangles are over the smallest things; the only murder I’ve ever had any direct connection to happened, ultimately, as a result of a dispute concerning which pew the individuals involved could sit in on Sunday morning — and subsequent insolence, of course.
And of course there’s a huge slump in employment not shown in the unemployment statistics, mainly that things don’t pay nearly what they did Back in the Day. What isn’t evident is that people are coping — you, yourself, are an example, dave. People are setting themselves up as entrepreneurs. Where I live it’s farriers, horse trainers, independent welders and building contractors, quilt and “scrapbooking” shops and other small retail that fits under Wal*Mart’s radar, day care (for adults who are past it as well as children), and other entrepreneurial enterprises. In the process they often need employees, and are finding out why it’s so tenuous: my sister-in-law is in bad shape, and I could afford to hire her, but I can’t afford the $20K up-front in deposits, lawyers, and accountants to set up to do that, let alone the continuing requirements for taxes, bookkeeping, and accounting to the Feds and State for compliance with the long shelf of PC regulations.
It’s curious. Colombian goods enter the U.S. without let or hindrance; an agreement to let American goods enter Colombia on the same basis is shot down in flames on the ground that it’s “hostile to Labor”. Guys who used to work in factories are glum, but cheer unreservedly when Obama tells them he’s going to see to it that nobody will ever again have the money to build a factory and hire people. “Cognitive dissonance” just isn’t quite forceful enough.
Regards,
Ric
as for rosy perceptions don’t say we weren’t warned: the Man from Omaha
the cognitive desonance is that disconnect between what Wall Street thinks ‘we’ owe them and “what” we actually have for income…about 300 Trillion in debt for our grandchildren they are banking on now for them to get paid in the future.
Ric, glad you’re noticeing ‘us’ little people. Yes, I am getting by with skill and luck and connections but at my age and good health, I should. I certainly dislike Jeremiah or Cassandra status so I wouldn’t mind a little less Republican leadership than we’ve had. I suggest enjoying the fruits of employership, You’ve overstated the costs and various state and trade assistants are available to make it less costly and you could also go the contract labor route (if you’re willing to be upfront and let the person know that she’ll have to pay her own taxes and up her pay at least 25 percent in compensation…however there are strict guidelines that might obviate the possibility except that enforcement is very sketchy and spotty and if she or he promises not to turn you in to the state Unemployment collection guys (who nailed me once for some lousy ‘under-the-table’ workers I fired) you’ll be okay. The worst is that you’ll have to pay those payments anyway). I am not sure equating ‘entrepreneurship’ with small business in general is the right term. Most small business isn’t innovative and is too much about technicians finding themselves in an employment squeeze and being forced to fend for themselves with too much technical skill but not enough business skill….thus the high rate of business failures (I was in it for 15 years and just broke even so I have to say in the failed category although never owing anything besides taxes (eh, don’t ask about my ‘stimulus package’ ha ha ha!!! but that was my fault, not th govt’s. they’ve been very lenient!)
Employership: It takes time but you can do it yourself as to the paper work and it’s not too bad if you have a system.. 20 K is way too much! But overhead is much more than the actual wage in any system we’ve got. I might have to join you in legal employer-ship soon as I am getting a little tired of doing it all myself and it’d be an adventure as long as I pay myself first: (first rule of small business which I’ve violated in the past too).
Once upon a time “the news†actually contained substance (I’m not sure that’s really true, but we were able to pretend it did),
See ‘Yellow Press’. Fun stuff sells more than serious stuff, except when the serious stuff is way, way serious – like ‘Pearl Harbor’ serious, like 9/11 serious. I think most people have this thing called their lives that they put a lot of serious energy into; in those minutes not devoted to that they don’t want any more seriousness than they have to absolutely necessarily devote. And local seriousness trumps national seriousness because the national stuff is over there, a ways away from me and my direct cares.
Just get off my back, quit nagging me, and leave me be right now is, I think a very rational attitude to a lot of things. Oh, and don’t forget procrastination – if a decision or unpleasant task can be put off til tomorrow, a lot of people will do that, because someone may deal with the unpleasantness before you have to, or the unpleasantness will fall on someone and someplace you aren’t.
Human nature is a hard hurdle to get over.
Much easier to simply hunt down a Web site with Hot! Girl on Girl! Action!
Ric – Which ones are you currently recommending?
Thanks in advance.
The Man from Omaha wants you and me to pay higher taxes so he can feel better about his immense wealth.
That’s why whenever I hear from The Man from Omaha I imagine him with Marlin Perkins’ voice.
whoa, Ric, good manners and murders. Guess you’re not in the north country. We’re a little crude and peaceful up North here. At least if you don’t look too hard into those trailers in the woods. But even there not too bad. We don’t a dentist pull our son’s teeth for a graduation present to save them from a lifetime of misery of toothaches. Really used to happen, I heard. (hopefully a rural legend!) Maybe some of us will give ’em a condom vending machine for a joke, though. (eh, true story sad to say)
McGeehee, that’s my impression too. I guess he’s called the ‘seer of Omaha’ or something actually. Damn, forgot that Perkin’s fella… but was thinking of them too. Paid Mutual of Omaha gazillions of insurance premiums and never collected a dime. I guess that’s water under the bridge too.
Sure, but that’s not what I was getting at.
Look, everybody’s taught (or used to be) that they have Civic Responsibilities. Most of us slough them off, on the ground that there are people who like that sort of thing. Let ’em at it. But there is (or, again, used to be) that remnant feeling of guilt that we weren’t holding up our end of the sack.
Newspaper reading could be part of assuaging that guilt. Mr. Big read the paper regularly, or had somebody do it for him and provide a precÃÂs, because he needed to know what was in it. By pretending to also need to know what was in the paper, we pretended to be part of the process; and the newspaper played along by providing the comics and car-crashes that actually interested us.
Mr. Big no longer cares what’s in the paper, because it’s useless to him — the part that isn’t t&a is vapid beyond belief, and to a very close first approximation contains no information whatever. Reading the paper no longer lets us pretend that we’re part of what’s going on, and because Pinch & ilk(!!) still want to pretend they are trying to appeal to Mr. Big they can’t go whole-hog and emulate The Star. Democratic Party press releases are available, free, if we want them; nothing in the paper is dependable enough to base decisions on, other than maybe the weather reports; and more and better titillation is available elsewhere. Why pay for a newspaper at all? If we need a buggy whip, easy enough to find it on craigslist.
Regards,
Ric
sorry for the extra ‘e’, wasn’t intentional. Knowing you’re down South too….no murders over misspellings or pews please.
FWIW, from NR’s “Corner”:
Back in 2005, when Pariser first denied that MoveOn opposed the war in Afghanistan, NR’s Byron York debunked their debunking: “Despite Pariser’s contention, there is solid evidence that MoveOn did in fact oppose the war in Afghanistan, and that MoveOn founders Joan Blades and Wes Boyd hired Pariser in significant part because of his activism against the war.”
No, datadoright. She didn’t … she’s void.
Not to worry. If I killed everybody who misspelled my name, these comment threads would be a lot quieter — on both sides of the politics.
Besides, there are some who argue that the origin of the name in my family was a colonial clerk who couldn’t make out “MacGregor” in the broad Highland burr of an indentured immigrant transported from Scotland for being on the
wronglosing side of a civil war.Yahoo, I’ve been waiting for Karl to start a thread where everyone openly bolo punches that Osama-bin -Obama fucker!
Is this it?
And this from Michael Barone’s blog:
…how the [“bitter”] story got on the pro-Obama Huffington Post. It seems that Arianna Huffington approved it by cellphone while on David Geffen’s 454-foot yacht in Tahiti. No, I’m not making this up.
So I’m putting my money in yachts, not pie.
Echoing McGehee — it’s been quite some time since I killed anybody, and I’m not anxious to take it up. Among other things, I haven’t been keeping my supply of canvas and quicklime fresh. However, the year is yet young.
And I’ve been unemployed for one year, one month, and nineteen days today, and have yet to gross $65K/yr. Almost all of my associates are in the same shape. Where you got the idea that I didn’t “notice the little people” I have no idea, unless you just have a slightly less virulent form of Semanticleo disease.
Regards,
Ric
I’ll throw ya a bone, thor. A riddle.
Q. What do Barack Obama and Osama bin Ladin have in common?
A. They’re both friends with guys who bombed the Pentagon!
Badump bump.
I think McCain has more broad based support than some people think. In fact I think one of the things that makes McCain popular with some people is that he seems less ideological, less partisan. I think that is what people are tired of. The never ending bickering.
Ric, you post real nice, buddy. You deserve better. I’m going to buy a lottery ticket today and if’n I win you got a $10K max gift coming, count on it. The rest of you peeps will get yogurt, lot’s of 8-packs of yogurt.
I like the apple pie flavor — but it’s got to be sugar-free and reduced fat.
Actually, I think Miss Cleo’s problem is that we have more fun even when “our side” is losing politically, than she has when her side (whatever side that is) is winning politically. She can’t stand it.
Add to that the fact we’ve been attracting people from across the spectrum who are of like temperament, and she cannot help but be offended by the mere thought of our existence.
There are times I’d like to throttle dogmadave, or even see him banned, but he isn’t quite that far off the edge. If I’m in an unusually good mood I even find him tolerable.
JD: I find…ironic that the organzation started to defend a Clinton has turned on them.
Maximilien Robespierre, Leon Trotsky, and Ernst Röhm had that experience, too.
Ric, I think we’re talking at cross-purposes. When the paper was the only source of info, and the only symbol that could be worn of being plugged into what is going on, then it would be the thing people would turn to, no matter how accurate it actually was. But this nation is so rich now, with so many different ways of being plugged in to what is happening, that the paper is dying.
And even when there was the paper, it was also what paper you were reading. Most large cities had more than one paper, from different viewpoints, all competing hard for those pennies and nickels from subscribers and passers-by. There were at least two papers for each major city, and some of them would have ‘Democrat’ or ‘Republican’ in their name. Detroit, as a much smaller city (metro area) had three; now there are two, but they operate as one except for their editorial staffs and certain columnists.
It’s a dying vehicle; the fact that we are discussing this over wireless links between two typing machines on a site that is privately owned says a lot. But even when those papers were in their hey-day, sensationalism ruled over seriousness. We are the same humans that raised the Acropolis, but also needed a Pericles to argue that the influx from a silver hit should be put to the navy rather than give everyone a cash pay-out.
Maybe I can’t see your argument; maybe its the beer (Saturday afternoon), but humans like blood and thunder and will pay for that over anything else. Or where would Shakespeare have been?
*sigh* gotta run now; things to do, people to ignore – I mean, greet.
Kind of like a retarded, incontinent, constantly slobbering puppy. Annoying, but sometimes sort of almost cute.
Like nishtoon thinks she is, but isn’t.
Okay, my last was about ddave, but could be about newspapers too.
Bonus.
she’s void? hysterectomy?
Sorry, Ric about the unemployment. I meant as the discussion was a bit other-worldish before and now we’re down to real political/econ. matters. At least you’re keeping your synapses in shape writing intelligent posts of relative import. (hey, you’re making slart and edu guy jealous me thinks).
Gosh, 65K on unemployment is pretty damn good. Hopefully some of that is investments. What was that about employing someone else?..then you’d both be under-the-table. We’re “hiring” some guy I know to work next week who’s collection unemployment too. (my so-called ‘boss’ who’s letting me manage about everything..)
I recommend some good Spanish red wine on that table! Good prices for high quality stuff. Under the table with your sister-in-law might be a problem though.
Oh, my …
… get a grip dave.
I am so sick of recycling paper…let the papers go on-line but leave a few to line the birdcage and have something to read at the coffee shop.
‘course MacBooks have their limits too. My 15 y.o. son the webdesigner’s died in 6 mos. as he dropped it and punched out the screen…so he’s just buying another one as he makes more an hour than I do. Really! And he doesn’t pay rent and I have to buy him Xmas presents!!!
watch what you’re saying, Diana.
Jane Fonda wasn’t all Bad. She helped millions stay in shape.
Jane Fonda wasn’t all Bad. She helped millions stay in shape.
I suppose. In the sense that somewhere between 500,000 and 2 million people starved to death in the Vietnamese “reeducation camps” after the Communists took over.
“Starved”, that should say, not “starved to death”. Only 100,000 or so actually died.
he who never sinned speaks….
gotta go enjoy the remains of a glorious beauty of a day.
“I was thrown into a three-foot-by-six-foot cell with my left hand chained to my right foot and my right hand chained to my left foot. My food was rice mixed with sand…After two months in solitary confinement I was transferred to a collective cell, a room 15 feet wide and 25 feet long, where at different times anywhere from 40 to 100 prisoners were crushed together. Here we had to take turns lying down to sleep, and most of the younger, stronger prisoners slept sitting up. In the sweltering heat, we also took turns snatching a few breaths of fresh air in front of the narrow opening that was the cell’s only window. Every day I watched my friends die at my feet…One South Vietnamese Communist, Nguyen Van Tang, who was detained 15 years by the French, eight years by Diem, six years by Thieu, and who is still in jail today, this time in a Communist prison, told me:…‘In order to understand the Communists, one must first live under a Communist regime … My dream now is not to be released; it is not to see my family. My dream is that I could be back in a French prison 30 years ago…”
but he isn’t quite that far off the edge
@ #78
You’re a brave man dd, most would’ve used a barrel.
It never fails — I say something slightly less than utterly vicious about one of our trolls, and they go off the deep end.
It has to be a sign of mental illness.
dave wandered into the world of entendre. He’s lost.
“Comment by datadave on 4/19 @ 10:23 am #
“Those halcyon days came to an end in the late Sixties and early Seventies.â€Â
1860s or 1960s?”
Well, for the Democrats, the 1860s saw the end of slavery, and the 1960s saw the end of segragation.
Bummer for them, but good for the country.
Uh oh:
Linky
And I assert We are the Queen of England.
“Comment by guinsPen on 4/19 @ 4:59 pm #
And I assert We are the Queen of England.”
Show us your…..Corgis!
One day the Queen was walking one of her dogs in London, and a tabloid photographer got a picture. It showed up in the next day’s paper with the caption, “Corgi and Bess.”
(The above is based on a story that would have been true if it had ever actually happened.)
[…] HotAir… and gamera, as I just found out.) Posted by Karl @ 6:44 pm | Trackback Share […]
[…] Yesterday, I noted that the story behind Celeste Fremon’s piece in the Huffington Post – reporting Hillary Clinton’s derogatory comments about MoveOn and the “activist base” of the Democratic party — might be as interesting as the story itself: The sudden appearance of the Fremon piece makes me almost as curious about what goes on behind closed doors at the HuffPo and OffTheBus as what goes on at Democratic fundraisers. OTB’s co-publisher, Jay Rosen, is an advocate for media transparency, whether it is at the New York Times or his own PressThink. Indeed, Rosen posted a lengthy backstory of Fowler’s OTB piece. Perhaps he will do the same to answer the obvious questions raised about the Fremon piece. […]