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The book on Rick Ellensburg, Thomas Ellers & Wilson [Karl]

Jules Crittenden nails it in noting “the unlikelihood that any effort to present a serious book entitled Great American Hypocrites, entirely limited to one side of the aisle, could be anything but an exercise in hypocrisy.”  But Jonah Goldberg overstates it in suggesting that the Internet’s most infamous sock-puppeteer is “one of the most easily and profitably ignored voices in the blogosphere.”  Ellensburg’s raging paranoia makes him a useful case study of how Bush Derangement Syndrome eventually metastasizes into a loathing of the Democratic leadership and the establishment media, which is what ultimately marginalizes him.

Crittenden and Goldberg both link to Dean Barnett’s review of the book, which is that the book is exactly what you would expect — the occasional insight, overwhelmed by dishonest Leftist cliches and ad hominem attacks.

However, PW regulars will love this part of Barnett’s review, starting with Ellensburg’s attack on John Wayne:

You’ll want to take special note of Greenwald’s none-too-subtle code language that has the Duke “flamboyantly parading.” Throughout “Great American Hypocrites,” neocons and other Republicans are reliably “prancing” or perambulating in some less than manful way.

One wonders whether Ellensburg was writing these passages at the same time he was having a hissy fit going ballistic over Peggy Noonan’s use of the word “poof” as a verb.  Because I think there is a word for that.

(h/t Memeorandum.)

Update: HotAir-lanche!

242 Replies to “The book on Rick Ellensburg, Thomas Ellers & Wilson [Karl]”

  1. Sean Bannion says:

    Does the word begin with the letter “H” and rhyme with “hematocrit.”

  2. Pablo says:

    As long as they’re not flamboyantly prancing while balls deep in a cabana boy with socks on both hands and simultaneously pounding a keyboard, I’m OK with it.

  3. JohnAnnArbor says:

    Such poofy prose.

  4. Ardsgaine says:

    I don’t think Goldberg overstates it. I’ve profited immensely from ignoring Greenwald, and would never hear of him at all if you guys didn’t enjoy poking him with sharp sticks. :)

  5. SGT Ted says:

    So, Ellisberg is a sort of self loathing fag? NTTAWWT.

  6. […] at Protein Wisdom cruelly observes more hypocrisy. Yeah. No […]

  7. PCachu says:

    Yeah, I was gonna say, I didn’t know “methinkstheladydothprotesttoomuch” was a word.

  8. mojo says:

    I think he means “pouf”, a French term meaning Le Fagout.

  9. […] Karl: However, PW regulars will love this part of Barnett’s review, starting with Ellensburg’s attack on John Wayne: You’ll want to take special note of Greenwald’s none-too-subtle code language that has the Duke “flamboyantly parading.” Throughout “Great American Hypocrites,” neocons and other Republicans are reliably “prancing” or perambulating in some less than manful way. […]

  10. JohnAnnArbor says:

    Prissy prat preens poofy prose for publication.

  11. Dan Collins says:

    You got Instalanched, too, Karl.

  12. Wind Rider says:

    Oh, you meanie, meanie…meanies! Running roughshod, nay bareback, over such a sensitive soul…

  13. Slartibartfast says:

    An Army Of Strawmen

  14. JohnAnnArbor says:

    Imagine being his editor.

  15. JD says:

    When Socky Ellers McCabana, the artiste specializing in Brazilian jooo-shitpoo, starts flapping his gums, I cannot help but laugh at him. I feel like such a horrible person for doing so. It was like when Corky and his band played a concert at my daughter’s school. I had to excuse myself. I am bad. I denounce myself.

  16. JD says:

    I think he means “pouf”, a French term meaning Le Fagout.

    I actually googled that, just to see.

  17. BJTexs TW/BP says:

    the artiste specializing in Brazilian jooo-shitpoo,

    ANTI-SEMITE!!!!

  18. mr bigstuff says:

    to all the fools who voted for w………..twice,
    1.marion morrison, aka john wayne was the epitome of hypocrisy. he said of WW2: “it was the greatest thing that ever happened to my career”. you see, he avoided service while the real actors went off to war which allowed him to sponge up all the major roles from 1942-1945. he established that fine republican tradition of avoiding service and then running that big mouth about how much ass “we” should kick. to refute that statement please bring up dwight d. eisenhower as evidence. but remember his final words before leaving office: “beware the rise of the military industrial complex controlled by oil men from texas”. also, your boy duke had an agent that followed in his drunken path paying off all the people whose homes and property were damaged in his drunk driving rampages.
    2. watch those gay inferences and references. the current edition of the republican party is a haven for closeted gay men. larry craig, mark foley, and lindsey graham sure give your party a sweet cute little frilly look. the alleged administration of w the moron was the first to see the white house visited by a gay male prostitute, jeff gannon. more than 100 times. who do you think enjoyed those visits more? w, rove or those sissy press secretaries, fleischer and mcclellan. the smart money’s on w.
    3. how bout your boy w’s recent statement that the next attack will come from afghanistan or pakistan. what a leader. he accomplished absolutely nothing in afghanistan. nothing. he couldn’t even catch bin laden because the fool decided to invade iraq and now the next attack will come from afghanistan or pakistan. can you morons do anything right? of course not. this fool w is going to be the first “president” to lose two wars. what part of miserable failure do you not understand? all the efforts and lost lives and limbs of americas finest and bravest are all for naught because of w’s failed (understatement) alleged leadership. hell, that idiot would coach the new england patriots to 0-16 rcord.
    4. thanks for the $4/gallon gasoline and the worst economy since 1929 which was of course brought to us by guess who? a republican.
    5. what happened to all those w stickers on the back windshields of your gas guzzlers?

  19. MayBee says:

    6. w stole all the shift keys and enter buttons.
    7. please ignore the liberal hypocrisy in point number 2

  20. cranky-d says:

    8. im a little(okay alot) high right now so pardon the rambling ignorance.

  21. Slartibartfast says:

    And here I thought W was too stupid to possibly be able to do something as difficult as wrecking the economy.

    Hard to keep those tinfoil-leftie talking points sorted out, these days.

  22. Rob Crawford says:

    but remember his final words before leaving office: “beware the rise of the military industrial complex controlled by oil men from texas”

    He did *not* say that. He said, “Beware idiots who can’t punctuate, but most certainly can bloviate.”

  23. melkor says:

    What did Dean Wormer say to Bluto, uhh, Bigstuff?

    Fat, stupid and angry is no way to go through life, son.

  24. Salt Lick says:

    Beware idiots who can’t punctuate…

    Probably a one-handed typing effort, Rob; they’re usually masturbating to intensify the BDS high.

  25. mr. pigstuff says:

    9. i’m typing one-handed because my other hand is in my pants stroking my tumescent penis, thrilled that i am taking on all these wingnuts 10. oops, gotta go

  26. kelly says:

    Great minds, SL, great minds.

  27. ah, the old “Republicans hate gays, but I’m going to call them all gay as an insult”.

    BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY!!!!

    I’m not proud.

  28. MayBee says:

    9. i’m typing one-handed because my other hand is in my pants stroking my tumescent penis, thrilled that i am taking on all these wingnuts 10. oops, gotta go

    ha ha haha ha.

  29. McGehee says:

    I don’t think pigstuff needs more than a finger for the not-typing activity. Just a guess.

  30. Salt Lick says:

    stroking my tumescent penis

    Well, next time eat the Cheetos after your fun.

  31. royf says:

    You know it is said that some men by huge trucks to compensate for a small, oh well you know.

    I wonder why someone would call himself mr bigstuff on a blog? Anyone have any idea?

  32. JD says:

    Mr. Innie?

  33. McGehee says:

    You know it is said that some men by huge trucks to compensate for a small, oh well you know.

    Careful.

  34. royf says:

    #33

    LOL!!!! Hey I’ve got a 74 Bronco sport and a F-150.

  35. Pablo says:

    I wonder why someone would call himself mr bigstuff on a blog?

    Big Jean Knight fan.

  36. Mona says:

    This infantile, way-over-the-top ad hominem-fest about Greenwald is one he rightfully ignores (and would not have time for in any event), and nothing I’d post about. But for those who think he isn’t making a difference and now attracting the attention of major media and political figures, well check out Jane Hamsher:

    I’m officially tasked with being part of Glenn Greenwald’s entourage this week as he promotes his new book, Great American Hypocrites. (I got to be there when Glenn spoke to roughly 20 members of Congress last night, and I had to shake my head remembering how tough it was just to get him a meeting with a Kennedy staffer 2 years ago. How times change.)

    Whether Jonah and others ignore him is just sooo irrelevant at this point. (Tho y’all manifestly do not do so.)

    And about the book’s title. I copy-edited it (yes, he is verbose, and part of my job was to undo that), and he fought tooth and nail against a title with the word “hypocrite” in it, since that is not his main point. But as many authors discover, the marketing folks have the final call on titles.

    His point is the decades-long narrative the GOP has successsfully peddled to the electorate as the party of moral probity and warrior courage, in contrast to a supposedly effete, cowardly, hippy-fied Democratic Party. That the GOP has been able to succeed with this narrative in light of the behavior of so many of its icons, pols and pundits must be attacked straight on, and Greenwald is a large part of the effort to make that happen.

    You may now return to substantive discussions about cabana boys and the like.

  37. Mona says:

    This infantile, way-over-the-top ad hominem-fest about Greenwald he rightfully ignores (and would not have time for in any event), and is nothing I’d post about. But for those who think he isn’t making a difference and now attracting the attention of major media and political figures, well check out Jane Hamsher:

    I’m officially tasked with being part of Glenn Greenwald’s entourage this week as he promotes his new book, Great American Hypocrites. (I got to be there when Glenn spoke to roughly 20 members of Congress last night, and I had to shake my head remembering how tough it was just to get him a meeting with a Kennedy staffer 2 years ago. How times change.)

    Whether Jonah and others ignore him is just sooo irrelevant at this point. (Tho y’all manifestly do not do so.)

    And about the book’s title. I copy-edited it (yes, he is verbose, and part of my job was to undo that), and he fought tooth and nail against a title with the word “hypocrite” in it, since that is not his main point. But as many authors discover, the marketing folks have the final call on titles.

    His point is the decades-long narrative the GOP has successsfully peddled to the electorate as the party of moral probity and warrior courage, in contrast to a supposedly effete, cowardly, hippy-fied Democratic Party. That the GOP has been able to succeed with this narrative in light of the behavior of so many of its icons, pols and pundits must be attacked straight on, and Greenwald is a large part of the effort to make that happen.

    You may now return to substantive discussions about cabana boys and the like.

  38. Mona says:

    Sorry about the duplicate. Feel free to delete one.

  39. JD says:

    Thank you, Mona. I now know what it feels like to laugh uncontrollably. It would be impossible to parody you. Or is that Ellers? Or McElleson? Or any of your other identities. Don’t forget that GiGi’s drivel was read into the Senate record, and he had a meteoric rise as a blogger, and he is a mendoucheous douchenozzle, and you are pitiful, yet hysterical. Thank you for amusing me.

  40. JD says:

    It is even better when you double up like that, dear Mona. Now, jam your head back in your ass.

  41. alppuccino says:

    76 Powerwagon

  42. alppuccino says:

    5. what happened to all those w stickers on the back windshields of your gas guzzlers?

    A back windshield would be really handy if you drove in reverse at over 25 mph. And that would burn a shitload ‘a petrol too.

  43. Rick "Mona" O'Ellersburgwald says:

    Greenwald only has a New York Times Best Selling Book on the Bush Administration and its abuses of power. And he has one of the most-read blogs on the Interent, after 9 months of blogging. And Senators read from his blog at Senate hearings and his posts lead to front-page news stories in major newspapers.

    I’d be the first to say his style can be bombastic and he can be overly aggressive. But nobody denies that he’s very smart, and among liberal bloggers at least, very moderate and rational in his view, and unusually willing to engage debate. So it’s hard to figure out what there could be about the guy that generates such strong emotions.

    I am a great admirer of Glenn Greenwald. I think he is constructively trying to direct the power of the internet into public affairs and politics. Further, having just endured the Sunday talk shows, I am affirmed in my opinion that the quality of debate is significantly higher in this blog than that offered by the TV news outfits. Putting those two things together, I think Glenn has embarked on a worthy undertaking in trying to enlist grass-roots internet support to impact politics and political changes.

    You can find my comments at Glenn Greenwald’s blog, Unclaimed Territory. Mr. Greenwald, in my opinion, runs the most respectful, thoughtful, and intelligent politico-legal blog in the whole dang blogosphere.

    I will add this. I believe that blogs like Mr. Greenwald’s demonstrate the awesome democratic potential of the internet. Such innovations are how we, as a united people, can proceed.

  44. JD says:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, alpuccino. You have to admit that Mona, and Socky McSockersonburg did the heavy lifting here.

  45. MayBee says:

    I wonder how many “roughly 20” might be. Anyway, it is nice to see that Hamsher and Greenwald’s money can buy access to Congress.
    This is from Gleen’s post via Hamsher via Mona:

    had the opportunity this week to speak to a gathering of roughly 20 members of Congress along with various Democratic Beltway strategist-types about my book and some of the strategic issues discussed here, and this same question was raised: “if we engage these themes, aren’t we dragging ourselves to the level that they’re at, and copying tactics which voters emphatically say they dislike”?

    If we follow your tactics, gleens, won’t we too be hypocrites? All roughly 20 of us?

  46. Mona says:

    @JD and Rick

    Are you seriously claiming that Greenwald also blogs under the name “Mona” at Jim Henley’s place? Well anyway, I did edit Glenn’s book, am mentioned in acknowledgments, and have the Random House-Crown 1099 to prove my work (all dutifully reported to the IRS).

    That said, I wouldn’t turn down a visit from a bronzed and buffed cabana boy.

  47. JD says:

    Can Brazilian sock puppety cabana boyz be elected to Congress? Gigi, Mona and the Puppeteers are roughly 20 distinct people, who just coincidentally share the same IP address.

  48. JD says:

    Mona – Do. Not. Stop. Please. You are fucking killing me.

  49. Dan Collins says:

    Oh, is it Gleen(s)’ merkin?

  50. JD says:

    Actually, maybe Mona McSockyfluffer should post that 1099. Let’s see how much cash the Left libs are wasting on socks rather than saving the world, one terrorist at a time.

  51. JD says:

    Dan – what is a merkin? I am afraid to google it, but must know. This is becoming more fun by the minute.

  52. Dan Collins says:

    It’s a beard out of its customary latitude.

  53. JD says:

    I googled Dirty Sanchez, Mona, and Socky once, and the mental scars, they have not healed.

  54. JD says:

    Dan, you magnificent evil bastard, you just made a piece of a bone-in ribeye attempt to exit my body via nostril.

  55. Mona says:

    This is absurd. Anyone with administrative access to this site can see my email address (containing my name), as well as my IP address, which is in southwestern Michigan. I’ve been with the same IP for some three years, and have been commenting here on and off all that time.

    Indeed, I’ve several times — tho not recently — exchanged email with Jeff using that email address which bears my name.

  56. Karl says:

    Hamsher had to go with “roughly 20” because she wanted to leave her shoes on.

    Of course, if you fundraise for Chris Dodd — as Hamsher and Greenwald do (the latter still undisclosed to his readers)– it is easier to get an audience with a few far Left members of Congress. Because of the reforminess.

  57. Karl says:

    And lest anyone forget:

    I no longer aspire to “understand” or persuade people who think as Protein Wisdom bloggers/fans do. You are part of the political pathology whose effectiveness I seek to neutralize; dialogue isn’t on my agenda. I mean that with no animus or snark; Cernig is a nice guy and I see he engaged you at his comments section. I, however, have been down that road and learned it is futile, and have no intention of going down it again.

    And yet here she is again. I think there’s a word for that, too.

  58. MayBee says:

    Karl- what’s funny is that both Greenwald and Hamsher say “roughly twenty”.
    Is it just too taxing to count all the way to 20? Were there portions of Congressmen there, making the addition too difficult?

    I believe that Hamsher and Greenwald have now fundraised for a new advertising campaign they are putting together to target blue-dog Dems. The only campaign advice they can possibly give any Congress member is how not to be targeted by them. Certainly getting anyone elected isn’t part of the package.

  59. RDub says:

    Sorry about the duplicate. Feel free to delete one.

    Or, y’know, both. Either way the end result is the same, really.

  60. Mona says:

    And yet here she is again.

    Yes, and I stand by that entire comment. The bloggers and most commenters here are beyond rational discussion, as this comments thread indicates. (Some think *I* am Glenn, which is absurd; you would then have to assume he is secretly writing for Henley unbeknownst to Henley. And also assume that my email and IP addresses cannot be accessed by the bloggers here.)

    At this point, I am entertaining myself; I expect to persuade no one. I pop in for that quite infrequently. Don’t worry, I’ll be gone again for months shortly.

  61. Rob Crawford says:

    C’mon, we all know Mona couldn’t let us insult the guy who does all her thinking for her.

  62. Dan Collins says:

    I’m sorry. What was it you suppose we are to discuss?

  63. JD says:

    Look, I can parody these people in my sleep, but for the life of me, could not make up Mona McSocky Jockstrapsniffer if you gave me a suitcase full of shrooms, a full blotter page, a bottle of Jaegermeister, and Baracky’s credit card.

  64. Rob Crawford says:

    Karl- what’s funny is that both Greenwald and Hamsher say “roughly twenty”.

    Probably because that’s the terminology they hashed out on Townhouse II.

  65. cranky-d says:

    What was it you suppose we are to discuss?

    It’s difficult to remember all the talking points, but I think acknowledging that conservatives are at best entirely wrong and at worst the spawn of satan, that all good ideas in the government (which is there to take care of all good liberals) come from the left side of the aisle, and that, finally, The Gleen(s) are quite intelligent and informed and we really should fall down and thank Gaia for the pearls of wisdom he casts to the four winds.

    You know, the usual.

  66. Slartibartfast says:

    This infantile, way-over-the-top ad hominem-fest

    This is Glenn’s book we are discussing, so I think that’s completely in keeping with the subject matter.

    Now run off, before I make a angst-ridden, furrowed-brow, compressed-lips youtube video of how brazen and…sorry, I just can’t carry that off like big G can. Anyway, run along and beat the stuffing out of some more strawmen, mmmkay?

  67. Slartibartfast says:

    Don’t worry, I’ll be gone again for months shortly

    NISHI! YOU ARE SOOOOOO BUSTED!

  68. Slartibartfast says:

    I had to shake my head remembering how tough it was just to get him a meeting with a Kennedy staffer 2 years ago

    You mean, the staffer of a guy who got drunk and drowned his girlfriend? How could Glenn keep from denouncing the guy right there and then?

  69. Mona says:

    slart writes: This is Glenn’s book we are discussing, so I think that’s completely in keeping with the subject matter.

    Evidence only of your not having read it.

  70. Slartibartfast says:

    “Evidence only of your not having read it.”

    I’ve read enough of it to know that it’s written by a guy who’s striving to be the lefty equivalent of Ann Coulter, and failing badly.

  71. Slartibartfast says:

    I mean, he’s not even as good at that schtick as Sean Hannity is.

  72. Dan Collins says:

    How was Goldberg’s book, Mona?

  73. Slartibartfast says:

    …which is kind of like being not even as good at pro football as George Plimpton.

  74. Mona says:

    You mean, the staffer of a guy who got drunk and drowned his girlfriend? How could Glenn keep from denouncing the guy right there and then?

    Yes, that staffer. And I think Ted Kennedy is a piece of shit, in his personal life. But the powerful Kennedy clan made sure that incident was not properly investigated and the man was never prosecuted. It is disgusting; but it did preclude any successful presidential run.

    But I do not see that Greenwald has any obligation to denounce a scandal from the 60s when the guy’s staffer in ’06 refused to meet with him. Bottom line: Ted Kennedy is a U.S. senator, for good or ill, and hence has some power. He will never be prosecuted, and there is no point in expecting it. But he *is* a senator.

  75. Mona says:

    How was Goldberg’s book, Mona?

    It was atrocious and absurd. I checked it out from my library.

  76. JD says:

    At least we know they are honest enough to admit that they flat out lie, but it is okay when in service of teh narrative. Who woulda thunk that if you raise money for moonbats, you can meet with them to discuss strategy? And how does Wilson Ellers McSocky get enough time to comment here? How frustrating must it be to be Gigi’s jocksniifer/fluffer and continually be scorned for the cabana boyz with the banana hammocks?

  77. Dan Collins says:

    Why? Did he imply that Liberals were all closet homos, or something?

  78. Dan Collins says:

    Was it as tightly argued as Gleen(s)’ heuristic lefty-aesthetic masquerading as psychology?

  79. Slartibartfast says:

    But I do not see that Greenwald has any obligation to denounce a scandal from the 60s when the guy’s staffer in ‘06 refused to meet with him.

    No, no one has any obligation to denounce anything. But one can avoid contact with folks one regards as execrable, unless one can gain a certain cache from such encounters.

    I think that’s how it goes, anyway.

  80. Mona says:

    I’ve read enough of it to know that it’s written by a guy who’s striving to be the lefty equivalent of Ann Coulter, and failing badly.

    No, what you’ve read is the description of it as that, which is making the rounds among his detractors. Also, Glenn is not a “lefty,” unless that means “non-neocon.” (He has written for American Conservative and appeared at several Cato events, and is working with them on a project.)

    And I would not play any role in a Coulteresque project. This book is not such. The major review source for librarians has suggested that while it is a caustic work, it is well-supported, and should be attractive for all libraries’ acquisitions departments.

  81. Slartibartfast says:

    I’m wondering just how much data Glenns gathered to substantiate that John Wayne is some walking right-wing archetype.

    Loads, I’m guessing.

  82. Slartibartfast says:

    is, was…I’m having a John Edwards moment.

  83. JD says:

    Alright, someone needs to fess up. Is that you, alpuccino? Wilson? Socky McEllerson? Whoever it is, you are fucking killing me.

    Besides, we all know that John Wayne was a gay, alcoholic coward. Just like the neotheoconz.

  84. cranky-d says:

    Every now and then a conservative writer gets some print-time in the NYT. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a lefty paper. Just having an article printed in a conservative publication means nothing with respect to political position. Gleen(s) can claim he isn’t a liberal, but his dearly-held positions bely the claim.

  85. Rob Crawford says:

    (He has written for American Conservative and appeared at several Cato events, and is working with them on a project.)

    American Conservative is Buchanan’s joint — it’s protectionist, isolationist, and lots of other things the left’s bought into. Cato is not conservative; they’re libertarian.

    Somehow, though, I have a feeling you don’t have a positive opinion of the vastly superior (and actually, you know, scholarly) work by Jonah Goldberg — Liberal Fascism.

  86. Slartibartfast says:

    No, what you’ve read is the description of it as that

    No, I’m not. That’s my own opinion; otherwise, I’d quote someone.

    Is denial all you have, Mona?

    And…isn’t American Conservative the magazine started by Pat Buchanan? Glenn’s a Pat Buchanan conservative?

  87. Rob Crawford says:

    Besides, we all know that John Wayne was a gay, alcoholic coward. Just like the neotheoconz.

    Funny thing is — you know what really pisses off the Left about John Wayne? That he was a strident anti-Communist.

  88. Rob Crawford says:

    And…isn’t American Conservative the magazine started by Pat Buchanan? Glenn’s a Pat Buchanan conservative?

    It’s their stance on Israel that drug him in.

  89. JohnAnnArbor says:

    The major review source for librarians has suggested that while it is a caustic work, it is well-supported, and should be attractive for all libraries’ acquisitions departments.

    Yeah, well the American Library Association repeatedly fails to denounce Castro for jailing librarians when given a chance at their yearly meetings. So I wouldn’t be too proud of the approval of Castro-lovers.

  90. Mona says:

    slart! You have something in common with Glenn! You write, my emphasis:

    But one can avoid contact with folks one regards as execrable, unless one can gain a certain cache from such encounters.

    He routinely makes that error (and I’ve edited it out for him several times). Neither you nor he mean “cache,” the proper term is “cachet.” I realize many think teh gays have their French down pat, but I assure you, he has the German and Portuguese mastered, but sucks at French.

    Anyway, Glenn is not interested in cachet; he wants to compel the Democrats to more intensively and fearlessly push back against the neocon, authoritarian right. And Ted Kennedy is a senator, for good or bad.

  91. cranky-d says:

    Glenn is not interested in cachet

    But all his sockpuppets who comment from the same IP address he uses are interested in it. Weird, huh?

  92. JD says:

    Gleeeens/Mona/Socky calling themselves conservative is one of my favorites. When I played teeball, there was this chubby daisy-picker and his Dad always called him Slugger. Did not make him one.

  93. Slartibartfast says:

    You have something in common with Glenn!

    You mean, besides being living, humanoid males with dark hair? Thank you, Grammar Nazi. By correcting my spelling, and rubbing Glenn all over me, you have completely refuted my point.

    So, nothing evil about Ted Kennedy. Ok, then. Portable morals; I completely get that, in people who are seeking to self-aggrandize. Morality is an encumbrance, unless it leads to saleable outrage.

    Meanwhile, still no answers to the idiotic generalizations that Glenn makes. As an editor, Mona, you completely failed in that regard.

  94. Mona says:

    Gleen(s) can claim he isn’t a liberal, but his dearly-held positions bely the claim.

    Actually, he refuses to adopt any ideological label. But when discussions of, say, Castro have broken out in his comments, some of his actually lefty commenters have been appalled at Glenn’s unswerving refusal to credit the dictator, given the human rights travesty in that country.

    So many of you are utterly limited in what you think constitutes left or right. Glenn does have an affinity for some of the paleocons’ positions at Buchanan’s magazine, tho certainly not all. And he also has much in common with the majority at Cato.

    Unless you can cite him calling for the nationalization of all or most (or even any) industry and services, and wholesale wealth redistribution, I don’t see where you get off describing him as “liberal” or “left.”

    He does not embrace neoconservatism. That does not render him a lefty.

  95. Slartibartfast says:

    Fail.

  96. Dan Collins says:

    Ideological labels are so much better off with a parent of each sex.

  97. Dan Collins says:

    Heh. She said sucks. At French.

  98. JD says:

    Folks, I am sitting here reading Gigi/Mona/McSocky and listening to Baracky and Hillary lie anout Wright and Tuzla. I am laughing so hard I woke up Madeline twice. I haven’t laughed this hard since the last time I watched Animal House and Fletch back-to-back.

  99. Mona says:

    slart sez: Meanwhile, still no answers to the idiotic generalizations that Glenn makes. As an editor, Mona, you completely failed in that regard.

    Oh. You’ve read his book?

    BTW, while I do defend the manuscript, I was a micro-editor, responsible for line-by-line editing and making sure, say, the same word did not, when avoidable, show up in contiguous three grafs, and that wholly redundant sentences/grafs were excised. (None of that is always possible, for clarity’s sake.)

    Anyway, I’m just amused that anyone would deny that John Wayne is a right-wing icon. The evidence that he was is as overwhelming as that Stalin killed dissidents.

  100. Slartibartfast says:

    I’m just amused that anyone would deny that John Wayne is a right-wing icon

    I’m just as amused that someone would assert it to be true. Sans evidence, no less.

    This is even more silly than the ridiculous assertion I’ve stumbled across, from time to time, that Horatio Alger is an important part of right-wing ideology. Just because I say so, it’s true!

    No surprise, given this thread, that Glenn’s book turned out to be the complete disaster that it did. Given your skillful hand in editing, I mean. I have no doubt that many of his points seemed right on, to you.

    And no, I didn’t read it from cover to cover. I just read enough of it to know that it was more of the same crap that Glenn just can’t seem to stop himself from dishing.

  101. Dan Collins says:

    Send me a copy and I’ll give it a fair read & critique . . . Believe It Or Not!

  102. MayBee says:

    BTW, while I do defend the manuscript, I was a micro-editor, responsible for line-by-line editing and making sure, say, the same word did not, when avoidable, show up in contiguous three grafs, and that wholly redundant sentences/grafs were excised.

    Beauty!

    Did Glenn and Jane meet with any non-Democrat congresspeople, Mona?

  103. JD says:

    Refusing to adopt an idelogical position, as Gigi/Mona/Socky claims does not mean that you are not an end stage BDS moonbat.

    What kind of reflected cachet does one get from Sen. Anvilhead?

  104. JD says:

    Slarti – I denounce Gigi/Mona/Socky for rubbing the gleens all over you. Ewwwwww.

  105. Dan Collins says:

    I love the way GiGi’s so hard on Russ Feingold, don’t you? So, to recap, everyone who doesn’t agree with him is evil or stupid or both.

  106. N. O'Brain says:

    I’ve never run across this Mona person here before.

    She comes across like a brainwashed Korean War American POW reading a war crimes confession in front of a NorK tribunal.

  107. Mona says:

    Send me a copy and I’ll give it a fair read & critique . . . Believe It Or Not!

    Dan, if you are serious about that, email Glenn. (I can’t get free review copies sent — and gave him my list of reviewers weeks ago — but he can.)ggreenwald@salon.com

  108. J. Peden says:

    The Jury has the right to disregard as credible the supportive words of ‘anyone‘ speaking for proven Sockpuppeteers,” ‘Mona’, notwithstanding the discredit brought by the very words themselves.

  109. Mona says:

    Did Glenn and Jane meet with any non-Democrat congresspeople, Mona?

    I do not believe so. But I’m not certain.

  110. Dan Collins says:

    GiGi’s not a liberal?

    “Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song,
    A medley of extemporanea;
    And love is a thing that can never go wrong;
    And I am Marie of Rumania”

  111. Dan Collins says:

    Thanks, Mona. I will.

  112. McGehee says:

    <walks in briskly>

    Hey guys, how’s — um, ewwww, what’s that smell? Did I just step in something?

  113. N. O'Brain says:

    “Hey guys, how’s — um, ewwww, what’s that smell? Did I just step in something?”

    Monarhea, apparently.

  114. JD says:

    Baracky and HillBill are trying to outbid each other on how quickly they will surrender in Iraq, and how firmly they believe it.

  115. MayBee says:

    I do not believe so. But I’m not certain.

    Does that tell you anything about his ideology?

  116. J. Peden says:

    what’s that smell

    Why, I do believe it’s the scent of a Gleenspie

  117. fletch says:

    Mona-

    Also, Glenn is not a “lefty,” unless that means “non-neocon.” (He has written for American Conservative and appeared at several Cato events, and is working with them on a project.)

    Please name even one other “non-liberal” member of the “townhouse” e-mail group…

  118. Mona says:

    slart ahistorically writes: I’m just as amused that someone would assert [John Wayne’s right-wing icon status] to be true. Sans evidence, no less.

    Puh-leeze. Wayne’s Goldwater-sponsored Congressional Gold Medal, and Reagan’s eulogy.

    That is a few tiny grains of sand in the mountain of evidence for Wayne’s right-wing icon status. Slart, your position is like arguing that Christians have no use for Jesus.

  119. JD says:

    Hillary vows to tax the holy hell out of the evil rich, making $250,000 or more, and Baracky says he will tax the holy hell out of everyone, and punitively tax the successful. And China is our banker again.

    Mona – Short answer. All of the gleeeeens did not raise funds for any Republicans, and did not meet with any Republicans. Honesty is simple.

  120. McGehee says:

    Being admired by a couple of prominent Republicans equals “right-wing icon” on your planet? Fascinating. (he said politely while edging away)

  121. Karl says:

    Some people live in a world where Ted Kennedy killing someone in 1969 is ancient history, but John Wayne avoiding service during World War II is ripped from today’s headlines.

  122. J. Peden says:

    Senators have quoted and read or entered into the record just about anything which would curry them reciprocity, Mr/s. Gleensclone – it’s just a good sales tactic.

  123. Mona says:

    Please name even one other “non-liberal” member of the “townhouse” e-mail group…

    I’m not on the list, so don’t have any idea who all is (and would not dream of asking Glenn to divulge that, and furthermore am interested in starting an anti-GOP, libertarian counterpart to it). But if you read Glenn’s blogroll you will see a libertarian presence there.

  124. J. Peden says:

    Why, who would have ever suspected that a Sockpuppeteer would also be a tar baby?

  125. MayBee says:

    nd would not dream of asking Glenn to divulge that

    So he’s kind of secretive?

  126. tho certainly not all.

    and you call yourself an editor.

  127. Mona says:

    Some people live in a world where Ted Kennedy killing someone in 1969 is ancient history, but John Wayne avoiding service during World War II is ripped from today’s headlines.

    Glenn’s book is not about Chappaquiddick and Ted Kennedy’s crimes. It is about GOP icons, pols and pundits who do not live up to the narrative they peddle to the voters as an indictment of Democrats.

    What happened to Mary Jo Kopechne is obscene, and I will always believe justice was not served in that case. But it has no bearing on the toxins infecting our contemporary political discussion, which is what Glenn’s book is about.

  128. J. Peden says:

    I’ve already read enough of Gleens to know for sure they are not credible, starting off with their assertion and poof that Thomas Sowell is not serious, which really instead proved the same about Gleens.

  129. JD says:

    Scratch that. Baracky and Hill are going to tax the holy hell out of everyone, and if you are rich, they will go all punitive on your ass.

    Mona – Before Gigi/Mona/Socky declared John Wayne to be the uber ideal of the right, I had never heard that done. I went and looked through some Reagan speeches and Russell Kirk books, and saw nothing about John Wayne.

    Gibson actually asked some tough questions tonite. Good on him.

  130. RTO Trainer says:

    And my blogroll would make me an Afghan?

  131. MayBee says:

    Slart, your position is like arguing that Christians have no use for Jesus.

    Jesus is to Christianity as John Wayne is to Republicanism.

  132. Bottom line: Ted Kennedy is a U.S. senator, for good or ill, and hence has some power. He will never be prosecuted, and there is no point in expecting it. But he *is* a senator.

    why do I think that this wouldn’t work if we replaced a few words with George Bush and President of the United States?

  133. RTO Trainer says:

    You heard it here first; Ted Kennedy is not a toxin infecting our political discussion. Despite, that is, having obscenely avoided justice.

  134. Mona says:

    So he’s kind of secretive?

    He’s a political activist on a political activists’ list; we work together on some things but not in that venue. If I asked him who was on that list, I imagine he would tell me. But I do not care, would not ask, and would not say even if I knew.

  135. RTO Trainer says:

    So he’s not secretive. Mona is.

  136. Slartibartfast says:

    That is a few tiny grains of sand in the mountain of evidence for Wayne’s right-wing icon status. Slart, your position is like arguing that Christians have no use for Jesus.

    Mona mistakes admiration for John Wayne as an American icon for John Wayne, the right-wing icon.

    OTOH:

    John Wayne’s enduring status as an iconic American was formally recognized by the United States Congress on May 26, 1979 when he was awarded the Congressional Gold Medal.[36][37] Hollywood figures and American leaders from across the political spectrum, including Elizabeth Taylor, Frank Sinatra, Mike Frankovich, Katharine Hepburn, General and Mrs. Omar Bradley, Gregory Peck, Robert Stack, James Arness, and Kirk Douglas, testified to Congress of the merit and deservedness of this award, most notably Robert Aldrich, then president of the Directors Guild of America, who stated, “It is important for you to know that I am a registered Democrat and, to my knowledge, share none of the political views espoused by Duke. However, whether he is ill disposed or healthy, John Wayne is far beyond the normal political sharp shooting in this community. Because of his courage, his dignity, his integrity, and because of his talents as an actor, his strength as a leader, his warmth as a human being throughout his illustrious career, he is entitled to a unique spot in our hearts and minds. In this industry, we often judge people, sometimes unfairly, by asking whether they have paid their dues. John Wayne has paid his dues over and over, and I’m proud to consider him a friend, and am very much in favor of my Government recognizing in some important fashion the contribution that Mr. Wayne has made.” Maureen O’Hara, Wayne’s close friend, initiated the petition for the medal and requested the words that would be placed onto the medal: “It is my great honor to be here. I beg you to strike a medal for Duke, to order the President to strike it. And I feel that the medal should say just one thing, ‘John Wayne, American.'”[38] The medal crafted by the United States Mint has on one side John Wayne riding on horseback, and the other side has a portrait of Wayne with the words, “John Wayne, American.” This Congressional Gold Medal was presented to the family of John Wayne in a ceremony held on March 6, 1980 at the United States Capitol. This medal is now at the John Wayne Museum in Winterset, Iowa. Copies were made and sold in large numbers to the public.

    On June 9, 1980, Wayne was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by Jimmy Carter (at whose inaugural ball Wayne had appeared “as a member of the loyal opposition”, as Wayne described it in his speech to the gathering). Thus Wayne received the two highest civilian decorations awarded by the United States government.

    LEFT-WING ICON ALERT!!!1!!eleventy!

  137. guinsPen says:

    the toxins infecting our contemporary political discussion, which is what Glenn’s book is about.

    So, it’s an autobiographies?

  138. Mona says:

    why do I think that this wouldn’t work if we replaced a few words with George Bush and President of the United States?

    Of COURSE it works! And is fine, depending on why you want the access, what kind of influence you wish to exert and to what ends. ***I*** would meet with George W. Bush if I thought doing so would cause him to crusade in favor of ending the “war” on drugs.

  139. MayBee says:

    It is about GOP icons, pols and pundits who do not live up to the narrative they peddle to the voters as an indictment of Democrats.

    I’m not sure exactly what this means, but can you tell my why he focused on GOP icons?

  140. oh, okay, so ends justify means.

  141. Dan Collins says:

    That all sounds so complicated. We just take orders from Karl Rove.

  142. J. Peden says:

    Face it Monas, y’all just can’t be taken seriously, neither by virtue of your words nor by virtue of your skin-tight associations.

  143. RTO Trainer says:

    War on Drugs? That’s Soooooo 1987.

  144. Pablo says:

    Wayne’s Goldwater-sponsored Congressional Gold Medal…

    You mean the one Carter gave him? Yeah, evidence of hyper-right-wingedness, that.

    …and Reagan’s eulogy.

    Thanks for pointing that out, Mona. Greenwald:

    Yet John Wayne was one of America’s biggest and most repugnant frauds — in exactly the way that modern Right-wing leaders are. At a time when virtually nobody avoided combat, Wayne did exactly that, using the most dishonorable means imaginable, throughout all of World War II. Because the most successful male actors, including older ones, went to fight, he was able to stay in Hollywood and become extremely rich playing war heroes.

    Reagan:

    When war broke out, John Wayne tried to enlist but was rejected because of an old football injury to his shoulder, his age (34), and his status as a married father of 4. He flew to Washington to plead that he be allowed to join the Navy but was turned down.

    Clearly, an actor being eulogized by a SAG president is evidence of deep, deep right-wingitude. And that eulogy is evidence of Gleen(s) being a lying hack. I should read him why?

  145. Slartibartfast says:

    Oddly, we find American conflated with conservative by Mona, as well as Barry Goldwater with right-wing chickenhawk.

    Interesting points she’s making, there.

  146. Slartibartfast says:

    …in much the same way that the baby hippo recently swallowed by the anaconda his interesting. It’s all a matter of having your choices end up badly.

  147. J. Peden says:

    Chicken Little has always been one of my favorite Left Wing icons.

  148. JD says:

    Market manipulation! Enron! Big oil! Price gouging! Windfall profits penalty! Congressional investigations!

    My ability to type the words gleenwald and. hypocrisy in the same sentence is hindered by a significant gag reflex. Frankly, it he/she/it/them/they would just admit that they are Leftists, I might be more willing to give some more thought to all of their positions. Ew. As is, we know that they cannot even engage in argument without lying, distorting, or just making shit up, so it makes it tough to take any of them seriously.

  149. fletch says:

    Mona-

    and furthermore am interested in starting an anti-GOP, libertarian counterpart to it

    If Gleen is truly a “libertarian” and/or “non-neocon”, doesn’t this exact same “ideological hook-up” already exist— as “townhouse”?

    But if you read Glenn’s blogroll you will see a libertarian presence there.

    You cannot be this dumb!

    By that metric, “Glenn Reynolds” is a “liberal”. (After all, Instapundit’s “blogroll” includes “Alternet”, Corn, Drum, JMMarshall, Yglesias, “Crooked Timber”, DeLong, Farber, Skippy, TalkLeft, and O-Chubb (among others).

    BTW, I offer my regrets that you didn’t get invited to be a member of “townhouse II”…

  150. Mona says:

    Clearly, an actor being eulogized by a SAG president is evidence of deep, deep right-wingitude. And that eulogy is evidence of Gleen(s) being a lying hack. I should read him why?

    Uh-huh. Read the book to find out why Reagan’s words were horsepuckey. Other Hollywood, leading-man fathers enlisted — many older than “Duke.” He worked with his studio to get endless exemptions.

  151. Dan Collins says:

    You know, I kid of like Skippy, a couple of the folks at TalkLeft and a couple at Crooked Timber. I like SEK and Cernig and some others. I even kind of like Clarissa Pinkola Estes, sometimes, though I think her cover story is bunkum and she’s often ridiculously new agey.

    I don’t really like Glenn, though.

  152. RTO Trainer says:

    Barry Goldwater with right-wing chickenhawk

    Just in case anyone didn’t know:
    With the onset of World War II, Goldwater received a reserve commission in the United States Army Air Forces. He became a pilot assigned to the Ferry Command, a newly formed unit that delivered aircraft and supplies to war zones worldwide; he spent most of the war flying between the USA and India, via the Azores and North Africa or South America, Nigeria, and Central Africa. He also flew “the hump” over the Himalayas to deliver supplies to the Republic of China. Remaining in the reserves after the war, he retired with a rank of Major General. By that time, he had flown 165 different types of aircraft. Following World War II, Goldwater was a major proponent of building the United States Air Force Academy, and later served on the Academy’s Board of Visitors. The Visitor Center at the Academy is named in his honor.

    One of his favorite hobbies was amateur radio and he held the call K7UGA. From his home station in Arizona he handled many “phone patches” that permitted U.S. Service personnel to be able to talk to their families back home from Military Affiliate Radio System (MARS) stations located in Vietnam.

    Despite my love of history and constan reading, I’d been duped into equating “Goldwater” with “mean spirited.” That was the point of Johnson’s campaign and I fell for it even decades after the fact.. I started looking into the reality when I heard a rebroadcast of this:
    “An ex-GI told me how he met him. It was the week before Christmas during the Korean War, and he was at the Los Angeles airport trying to get a ride home to Arizona for Christmas, and he said that there were a lot of servicemen there and no seats available on the planes. Then a voice came over the loudspeaker and said, “Any men in uniform wanting a ride to Arizona, go to runway such-and-such,” and they went down there, and there was this fellow named Barry Goldwater sitting in his plane. Every day in the weeks before Christmas, all day long, he would load up the plane, fly to Arizona, fly them to their homes, then fly back over to get another load.” (Ronald Reagan, if you didn’t know, the rest of the speach is well worth reading/hearing.)

    I find it hard to think, Mona, that your boy isn’t engaging in a similar attempt to skew history, though I’ve little doubt that most of the first printing are doomed to moulder away on library shelves, checked out maybe twice a year.

  153. JD says:

    Mona – Do you dispute what Reagan said about Wayne, as posted by Pablo? If so, could you provide your proof. If not, you are one shitty editor.

  154. MayBee says:

    Other Hollywood, leading-man fathers enlisted

    Do Republicans like any of them?
    Do Democrats universally denounce John Wayne?

  155. J. Peden says:

    Read the book to find out why Reagan’s words were horsepuckey.

    P.T. Barnum

  156. Pablo says:

    Uh-huh. Read the book to find out why Reagan’s words were horsepuckey.

    Howzabout you point me to the source material instead?

  157. RTO Trainer says:

    They didn’t when Wayne sided with President Carter over the Panama Canal.

  158. J. Peden says:

    I’m thinking this BDS business model for selling books has so far just scratched the surface.

  159. turtle steamers says:

    Obama won me over by using an honest, straight forward delivery to spell out his ideas and his steadfast faith in the American people.

  160. RTO Trainer says:

    J., I was just thinking that if twisting history and villifying good people can win elections, why can’t is sell books?

  161. Slartibartfast says:

    So…let’s see, in a Congress that was 292/143 D/R in the House, and 58/41 D/R in the Senate, we’re supposed to believe that it was the Republicans that drove through this bill to publicly adore the Duke?

    Mona, you’re a pearl.

  162. Pablo says:

    If not, you are one shitty editor.

    A copy editor, JD. Not even Gleen(s) is dumb enough to have her do his fact checking…if he’d bothered to have any done.

  163. Slartibartfast says:

    Hang on a second; I’ve got to go throw some more popcorn in the microwave.

  164. JD says:

    This whole John Wayne Republican ideal meme never existed prior to Gigi/Mona/Socky asserting it. Then when they start making shit up, and they get called on it, they will claim that we are defending something, which to them, constitutes proof of the original lie. Their style is circular, dishonest, and predictable.

  165. J. Peden says:

    I’d rather read the Works of Proven Paranoid Schizophrenics – so far I’ve only read some excerpts from this upcoming best seller.

  166. J. Peden says:

    Right, JD, somehow reminds me of another best seller, Mission Accomplished.

  167. Mona says:

    Mona – Do you dispute what Reagan said about Wayne, as posted by Pablo?

    I do not dispute that Maureen O’Hara — his close friend and co-star in one of his best films, The Quiet Man — and other actors were all in favor of the medal. But his all-American icon status was then still intact.

    And ask yourself, why John Wayne being proposed for a Congressional Medal of Honor, out of so many actors? That Dems went along with it means little, it was hardly a matter of major import at the time. Besides, I’m not pro-Dem, I’m anti-current GOP.

  168. JD says:

    Pablo – My bad. Mona did a good job copying. So did Wilson. And Ellers. They are going to try tracing next time.

    Slarti – Hope you took a shower after she rubbed the gleens all over you.

    Gleeeeens find it necessary to lie and distort to make their points. Why should we do anything but mock?

  169. Pablo says:

    I do not dispute that Maureen O’Hara — his close friend and co-star in one of his best films, The Quiet Man — and other actors were all in favor of the medal.

    That wasn’t the question. Don’t just pretend to answer it.

  170. JD says:

    Nice try. But you did not answer a simple yes or no question. Go read Pablo at 144. Is that true or false? If true, why did gleen and you find it necessary to lie? If false, please provide proof.

    What do the actions of jimmah the terrorist lover and Tip Oneill’s Congress have to do with the modern GOP?

  171. RTO Trainer says:

    “And ask yourself, why John Wayne being proposed for a Congressional Medal of Honor, out of so many actors?”

    No. Congressional Gold Medal or Medal of Freedom. As you and Gleens point out he couldn’t have had the Congressional Medal of Honor.

  172. Slartibartfast says:

    Oh, so now Wayne has been magically converted to a screen actor’s icon, which is just exactly like a rightwing chickenhawk icon.

    Maybe someday we can make a dictionary to translate what Mona’s babbling on about into English.

  173. Mona says:

    Pablo writes Reagan’s words were horsepuckey.

    Howzabout you point me to the source material instead?

    His citations are internal, and I’m not going to cull them. But note that not even Dean Barnett disputes the Wayne chapter, which is replete with documentation.

    If you do not wish to buy it, check it out from your library; metropolitan libraries will order it; others, maybe not. (Small-town libraries tend to only order top ten in fiction and non-fiction as per the NYT.)

  174. Pablo says:

    Or, we’ll get something like this, referenced by Karl above:

    I no longer aspire to “understand” or persuade people who think as Protein Wisdom bloggers/fans do. You are part of the political pathology whose effectiveness I seek to neutralize; dialogue isn’t on my agenda. I mean that with no animus or snark; Cernig is a nice guy and I see he engaged you at his comments section. I, however, have been down that road and learned it is futile, and have no intention of going down it again.

    Like the pot calling the microwave black.

  175. JD says:

    Question – Is it true or false that the gleens are all habitual liars?

    Answer – Yes

    Mona answer – I do not dispute that Republicans are fascists.

  176. Pablo says:

    Ah, well John Wayne was not only an infantryman and a tanker and a fighter pilot, but he was also America’s first astronaut. I’d prove that to you by citing myself, but I don’t have the time.

    You’re not going to get me to buy the book, Mona. I prefer to read Wilson.

  177. guinsPen says:

    OT: Sweep !

  178. J. Peden says:

    Besides, I’m not pro-Dem, I’m anti-current GOP.

    Yeah, and little theocon-deranged nishi just wants to get religion out of our Government.

  179. McGehee says:

    No. Congressional Gold Medal or Medal of Freedom. As you and Gleens point out he couldn’t have had the Congressional Medal of Honor.

    Amazing that Glonawald expects anyone to take them seriously when they can make an error of that magnitude.

  180. And ask yourself, why John Wayne being proposed for a Congressional Medal of Honor, out of so many actors?

    um, assuming you mean Congressional Gold Medal, Wayne wasn’t even the first actor to be a recipient.

  181. Pablo says:

    Barnett, in his opening graf:

    Like most things that spring from Glenn Greenwald’s keyboard, Great American Hypocrites is a combination of literate insights, occasional distortions, and forays into ugliness that are difficult to understand given Greenwald’s obvious intelligence.

    And his fifth graf:

    Greenwald stretches with both holding up John Wayne as a Republican idol and all his talk of prancing. For what it’s worth, in my conversations with neocons, I’ve never heard a single one of them mention John Wayne. I’ve also noticed that they seldom “prance” let alone “flamboyantly parade.”

    See, JD? Mona can’t read for comprehension. But I’ll bet she’s a bear on punctuation.

  182. Mona says:

    You’re not going to get me to buy the book,

    I do not expect that you will. But you cannot reasonably criticize a chapter you have not read on the basis that you do, unless you can point to a reliable other(s) who reasonably dissect the book’s documentation shortcomings.

  183. Pablo says:

    Correction, the first quote is his 3rd graf.

  184. Slartibartfast says:

    I’m sure the remainder of the book is completely free of the stupidity we’ve seen from the excerpts, Mona. If it weren’t, it’d implode out of sheer density of stupid.

  185. JD says:

    Mona – Was Wayne 34? Was he the father of 4? Did he have a shoulder injury? Did he fly to Washington to attempt to persuade them to allow him to enlist? These are simple questions. As Pablo showed above, it is possible to answer them without referencing the gleeeens book. With the underlying premise having been shown to be quite mendouceous, why would we check this book out of the library? With the fascist Patriot Act, I might get on a watch list.

    Why is it that the gleeeeeens/Mona/Socky resort to reciting their resume all the time?

  186. Pablo says:

    Fuck the book’s documentation shortcomings. We’re discussing facts here, and Gleen(s) is not the keeper of facts. Reagan went first, and you’ve called his words “horsepuckey.” Prove your thesis. prove him wrong.

    Full disclosure: My uncle knew Wayne and thought him an asshole.

  187. Slartibartfast says:

    …which is why we should all read it, because the rest has to be, by comparison, dazzling.

  188. Mona says:

    Pablo: Barnett did NOT say the chapter on Wayne was not true or undocumented. He merely asserts neoconservatives have not claimed Wayne as an icon.

    And to others above: Yes, I made a confusion of medals in one of my later comments.

  189. Pablo says:

    Pablo: Barnett did NOT say the chapter on Wayne was not true or undocumented.

    He also did NOT say that Gleen(s) are a master of internet sockpuppetry. That proves what, exactly?

  190. MayBee says:

    Did Glenn write very much about the Republican Jimmy Stewart?

  191. Pablo says:

    He merely asserts neoconservatives have not claimed Wayne as an icon.

    …and Gleen(s) say he is a neocon icon. Huh.

  192. MayBee says:

    I mean, it was Ronald Regan that gave Stewart the Presidential Medal of Freedom. That seems very icon-y.

  193. RTO Trainer says:

    Go read this. It’ll help you keep the distinction in mind.

    Maybe.

  194. JD says:

    Pablo – That he chooses to represent the academic, well researched, insightful tome that the gleeeeens produced, and feingold will soon read into the record, in such a deceitful manner is proof that John Wayne was a poofty alcoholic chicken hawk poofter.

  195. Pablo says:

    MayBee, Stewart had a deferment. You know what that means, don’t you?

    A. He didn’t meet the physical qualifications, or

    B. He was a chickenhawk, who later recovered, probably out of shame.

  196. Pablo says:

    Clearly, Barnett should have written a book refuting the book, and not just an article. Therefore, we can deduce that the book is chock full of truthy goodness.

  197. MayBee says:

    Stewart flew missions over Germany.

  198. JD says:

    Mona – Pablo, in citing Regan, was able to make a point completely independent of any reference to poofy gleenwaldian writings. Your response can exist outisde of gleens writings. But,making a ridiculous assertion, and using said assertion as proof of the assertion is par for the course with Gleeeen/Mona/Ellers/Wilson.

  199. Pablo says:

    Yes he did. But he was initially deferred…for being underweight.

  200. Mona says:

    Yes, Greenwald approvingly cites Jimmy Stewart’s war service in his book, and eventually Stewart did see combat. From wiki:

    In August 1943 he was finally assigned to the 445th Bombardment Group in Sioux City, Iowa, first as Operations Officer of the 703rd Bombardment Squadron and then its commander. In December, the 445th Bombardment Group flew its B-24 Liberator bombers to RAF Tibenham, England and immediately began combat operations. While flying missions over Germany, Stewart was promoted to Major. In March 1944, he was transferred as group operations officer to the 453rd Bombardment Group, a new B-24 unit that had been experiencing difficulties. As a means to inspire his new group, Stewart flew as command pilot in the lead B-24 on numerous missions deep into Nazi-occupied Europe. These missions went uncounted at Stewart’s orders. His “official” total is listed as 20 and are limited to those with the 445th. In 1944, he twice received the Distinguished Flying Cross for actions in combat and was awarded the Croix de Guerre. He also received the Air Medal with three oak leaf clusters. In July 1944, after flying 20 combat missions, Stewart was made chief of staff of the 2nd Combat Bombardment Wing of the Eighth Air Force. Before the war ended, he was promoted to colonel, one of only a few Americans to rise from private to colonel.

    Wayne, otoh, did everything he could to get out of being drafted. Successfully.

  201. MayBee says:

    Yeah. I’m just wondering why Stewart’s brand of right-wing iconery didn’t make Glenn’s very important, very thorough, non-ideological book.
    What could the Jimmy Stewart example teach roughly 20 Congressmen?

  202. Slartibartfast says:

    So, we’re left with Wayne is a right-wing icon because…he’s a chickenhawk, and rightwingers are chickenhawks.

    Or something like that. For sure, we’re not seeing anything resembling an actual argument. Which, coming from an attorney, is just pathetic.

  203. Pablo says:

    Wayne, otoh, did everything he could to get out of being drafted.

    Cite, please. You do that like this:

    Wayne was anxious to make war films because of personal frustrations. He was too young (seven) to take part in the First World War, and too old (34) to fight in the Second World War. In addition to age, Wayne was draft-exempt for having family commitments; he was married and had children, and an injury from playing football at the University of Southern California. Even the connections of John Ford, who during the War was Chief of the Field Photographic Branch at the OSS with the rank of lieutenant commander in the Navy, did not help to get him drafted.

    And even if you can only find citations in Gleen(s)’ book, I find it difficult to believe that you don’t have a soft copy you could C&P from, what with you being his editor. But then, it’s a big internet, and facts are not hard to find on it.

  204. MayBee says:

    Oh, I see Mona says Stewart is approvingly cited. His family must be so proud.

    So the lesson is…different “icons” had different experiences which show that different Republicans acted differently during WWII but were rewarded by various politicians years later. Compelling.

  205. JD says:

    Mona – Wayne was married with 4 kids, had a pre-existing shoulder injury, and flew to Washington in an attempt to overturn their decision. True or false? If true, why do the gleeeeens portray it differently? If false, proof please,which should be able to be shown outside of the gleeeens scribbling.

  206. RTO Trainer says:

    You (and presumably Gleens) are wrong.

    There is every indication that Wayne did not persue enlistment, but he did not actively avoid it either. His initial classification (A-3) was changed to A-1 in 1944, but Republic Studios intervened and had it changed to A-2, citing, and appraently the War Department agreed, that he not be drafted for the interest of the country.

    Republic had also threatened to sue Wayne if he did persue enlistment. Despite that it seems unlikely that they’d follow through, there’d be only one way to test it. Draft was the only course that woudn’t and teh studio blocked that as well.

    You show me one credible indication that Wayne ever actively sought to avoid being drafted and I’ll buy two copies of the bloody book.

  207. JD says:

    IT IS TRUE AND AN UNASSAILABLE FACT THAT JOHN WAYNE WAS A FLAMBOYANT GAY CHICKENHAWK BECAUSE THE GLEEEEENS SAID SO AND EVEN IF IT IS A LIE IT IS ALRIGHT BECAUSE THE LIE HELPS ME LIE MORE ABOUT TORTURING NECON CHICKENHAWKS !!!!! TAKE THAT.

  208. MayBee says:

    Oh, please. As if Glenn cares. WWII was presided over by a Democratic president, so by definition it was a Democratic war. Therefore, only Democrats could be chicken hawks at the time. If John Wayne didn’t serve then he has that in common with Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, and Glenn Greenwald. Democratic icons, all of them.
    In the annals of hypocrisy, the left (andthe non-ideologically labeled) deserve a chapter of their own for their chicken hawk/war supporter’s children should serve/pay no attention to the fact that the war supporter’s children are serving/elect a war hero/military service doesn’t matter flip-floppery.

  209. JD says:

    So, essentially, we have determined that :

    1) John Wayne was a chickenhawk draft dodger and prolly gay
    2) The central premise of the gleeeeens newest book is nothing other than a figment of his imagination,
    3) Facts do not exist outside of the gleeeeens writings,
    4) Mona is a sad and pathetic jock sniffer, and
    5) Facts are subject to the gleeeens interpretation.

  210. turtle burps says:

    Obama seems very collected and composed. Wild mood swings, control issues, uncontrolled emotional outbursts, all point to the Hildabeast having definite bitch issues.

  211. JD says:

    I wonder how Mona was able to edit copy with a set of hairy dingleberries haning right there across the bridge of her nose …

  212. Mona says:

    I wonder how Mona was able to edit copy with a set of hairy dingleberries haning right there across the bridge of her nose …

    That is quite representative of the level of discourse here, so I bow out for now. Others who want to know what Greenwald writes about Wayne and with what supporting documentation, will either buy the book, borrow it from their library if available, or read reliable reviews addressing and quoting that section.

  213. happyfeet says:

    She sounds like an elitist I think. I get the sense that she’s looking down on us here.

  214. RTO Trainer says:

    I guess I’m not buying the book.

    Whew. Dodged a bullet on that one. I’m sure.

  215. Jeff G. says:

    Mona bows out after having determined that the level of discourse here is more in keeping with the single dingleberry remark than with the bevy of direct, on-point questions she dodged on her way to avoiding our pathology by completely immersing herself in it.

    Personally — and I mean this in all candor — I find Mona’s showing up here truly truly truly truly sad. Of course, it’s not like she can just lift up her shirt to get Glenn’s attention. So maybe I can be convinced to cut the officious, dissembling mega twit some slack.

  216. Of course, it’s not like she can just lift up her shirt to get Glenn’s attention.

    and I doubt he’s sharing the cabana boys either.

  217. Pablo says:

    That is quite representative of the level of discourse here, so I bow out for now.

    Yes. First you fail, then you’re mocked. Feel free to bring a worthy argument next time you drop by to shill.

  218. Radar says:

    I’m glad we’re finally tackling the crucial issue of John Wayne’s actions during WWII. This has been ignored for far too long!

  219. not Bill Bellichek says:

    I wonder how Mona was able to edit copy with a set of hairy dingleberries haning right there across the bridge of her nose …

    That is quite representative of the level of discourse here, so I bow out for now.

    That is the essence of Mona, and all that is Gleenwaldian, right there. Paragraph after paragraph of ass-whuppin totally ignored so she can focus on one sentence of insult. I used to get pissed at people who would post shit like this, giving her a target for that little laser pointer of a brain she has, now I think that is all she deserves, let the word see what a trifling little pinheaded piece of fluff she is.

  220. Lesley says:

    Yes, slack should be cut. Truly sad case.

    “This infantile, way-over-the-top ad hominem-fest about Greenwald is one he rightfully ignores (and would not have time for in any event), and nothing I’d post about. But for those who think he isn’t making a difference and now attracting the attention of major media and political figures, well check out Jane Hamsher:” etc etc

    Mona elevates herself to Greenwald’s celebrity status by proxy. She tells us she has edited his book, she tells us what he is thinking, she tells us what he does or does not have time for, she wallows in his proximity to Hamsher and Senators, she vicariously glories in the media attention he is receiving, she of superior insight to all things Glennwaldian. This isn’t about Glenn Greenwald, this is all about Mona.

    In the oddest way, one might say Glenn Greenwald is Mona’s sock puppet.

  221. Jeff G. says:

    Sometimes I just wish she’d post “Harumph!” and be done with it.

  222. thor says:

    If she could lift her skirt and pick my two quarters off the bar and then “Harumph!” five dimes, she’d get my attention. Hell, I’d even let her keep the quarters.

  223. Rusty says:

    #208
    FDR. The president who, on the recomendation of a handful of people and with no other evidence, committed one third of our GDP to the making of weapons of mass destruction. FDR lied, etc.,etc.

  224. Slartibartfast says:

    That is quite representative of the level of discourse here, so I bow out for now.

    I can quite understand, Mona. I read a couple of excerpts from Glenn’s latest offering, and decided that it was unacceptably insulting to any person of above-average intelligence, so I declined to read further.

    read reliable reviews addressing and quoting that section

    Done!

    Unless you define “reliable” as “adulatory”, in which case: no.

    Point me to a review that you approve of, written by anyone I respect, and I’d be happy to read through it. I suspect those who like Greenwald’s latest, though, are the kind of people that already believe all of that broad-brush nonsense.

    Or, if you’re already gone, not.

  225. JD says:

    My bad, everyone. I went and spoiled the fun for everyone. It appears that what I really did was give her a convenient excuse to leave after having her ass handed to her. Talk of dingleberries is way over the line. My sincere apologies to all of you racist homophobes.

  226. JD says:

    I really enjoyed the idea that Mona refused, or was unable to answer a plethora of direct questions without referring back to the gleens drivel.

  227. Slartibartfast says:

    If I’m understanding Mona’s points, it seems that we need to read Glenn’s book in its entirety, to appreciate what a thoroughly researched collection of logical fallacies it is.

    I think that’s something I can leave to people who have a great deal of time to squander. For me, never is enough.

  228. Rob Crawford says:

    Do Democrats universally denounce John Wayne?

    Certainly. He was a strident anti-Communist.

  229. Rob Crawford says:

    I really enjoyed the idea that Mona refused, or was unable to answer a plethora of direct questions without referring back to the gleens drivel.

    I liked the line about “internal citations”. In other words, gleen was using his assertions as evidence to support his own assertions.

    Uh, that’s not scholarship. That’s polemic.

  230. Slartibartfast says:

    To summarize:

    John Wayne is a right-wing icon because a Democratically-controlled Congress awarded him the Congressional Gold Medal, and a Democratic President awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He’s a chickenhawk because he starred in a bunch of war films, but didn’t go to war, himself. He’s also a chickencowboy, a chickenrancher, and a chickenmarshall, but those aren’t important right now.

    Really, I think Sean Hannity is capable of better thinking than this.

  231. JD says:

    Sean Hannity might be able to think better than that, but the gleeeeens/Mona/Socky McSockerwilson are not.

  232. Slartibartfast says:

    Here’s a couple of rave reviews:

    Despite the antipathy the author feels for Coulter, his writing is much like hers. More a partisan screed than a reasoned argument meant to persuade undecided readers, this repetitive text frequently devolves into personal attacks and vast generalizations.

    -Publishers Weekly

    “Buy Glenn’s books so George Soros doesn’t have to!”
    -Ok, I just made that up. But Crooks and Liars comes close.

    Precious few reviews are to be found that aren’t adulation by the left-wing blogosphere whose appetites for red meat are well-satiated on Greenwald fare. Again, I’d be delighted to read reviews of this book, provided they’re not rah-rah pieces that actively avoid the problems Greenwald has with logic.

  233. Education Guy says:

    From someone actually interested in the truth rather than just rearranging words and concepts to convince someone my opinion has merit, I’d say this thread was very embarrassing for Mona and the Gleens.

    OTOH, perhaps there is some secret strength behind the tactic of talking smack about a beloved American icon and then trying to pass him off as emblematic of the GOP.

  234. Slartibartfast says:

    …and being just about as far along the factually incorrect axis as it’s possible to get, in the process.

  235. Pablo says:

    I’d just like to thank Mona once again for citing Reagan’s eulogy.
    This couldn’t have happened without you!!!

  236. Jeff G. says:

    Greenwald was, is, and always will be a cutout. Anybody who buys his bullshit — or respects him (shame on Dean Barnett, by the way; Greenwald is on record as saying he’d lie and do whatever it takes to see his agenda enacted, which marks him as anti-democratic and so, in the strictest sense, an anti-American egoist of the worst sort) — is either brainwashed, or convinced that the rest of us are too stupid to notice the gaping holes in his logic, which, in terms of size, are matched only by his self regard. And maybe Jeff Gannons GAY PORN COCK OF LIES.

    — Though that last really has no business in this thread. But, you know, what the hell.

    BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY!

  237. MayBee says:

    Jeff Gannon is a neo-con ICON, Jeff. Of course he belongs in this thread, as does his cock.

    I hope the FDL contributors that spend their money on Jane and Gleen’s excellent adventures realize their hard-earned cash is going only toward those two non-ideologues’ self-aggrandizement. They are the new Jim and Tammy Fae.

  238. Jeff G. says:

    I’m going to be sick now.

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