Republicans are no longer denying the scientific basis for global warming. That’s good news for those of us who have grown accustomed to the continued existence of things like polar sea ice, various forms of life, and Miami. The bad news is that Republicans, having seen the light, have fallen back on the possibly even more annoying stance of simply refusing to do anything about the problem.
Too late. Too false. Of course, it’s TNR, so I don’t expect much.
Of course, some people see Miami as part of the problem.
Robots…..lie?
You forgot the part about Jon Chait being a moron.
He can’t help that part, Kirk.
I deny.
I love this quote from the NPR story (just for ‘feets.)
He said hopefully, desperately, maniacally…..
Republicans no longer denying…what? I can’t remember the last time a study came out that supported anthropogenic global warming. As Tim Blair has pointed out, they hardly even call it global warming anymore. What with all that inconvenient failure to warm stuff and all.
It’s frustrating when the earth refuses to synchronize its dynamics with teh Marxist ideology. Stoopid earth.
Yeah. Fortunately, that’s what teleology is for.
In the past 100 years we warmed 1 (one) degree. Last year we cooled the entire 1 (one) degree back. However, we could cool another degree this year, but we could warm 1/2 degree in the next 100 years. Then we could warm another 1/2 degree in the next next 100 years.
Put another way, Three friends went out for drinks. The waiter brought them a check for $30, so each one of them paid $10. When the waiter took the cash, he realized he had made a mistake, and the check was for $25 instead. When he gave their change back, each friend got a dollar and they left the remaining two dollars as a tip. Therefore, each customer paid $9; multiplied by 3 this equals $27; plus $2 for the tip equals $29. Where is the remaining dollar?
So true, ‘feets, so true. But fear not! Teh stoopid earth is merely taking a crisping break to shiver a little and regain it’s victimhood as the sighing crack whore of teh evul fossil fuels cartels. Oh, and the agricultrural conglomerates pushing biofuels on us like we are horse junkies. Of course all of this will be for naught when all of the birth defects from those not so shiney happy energy bulbs cause us all to mutate into ugly, twisted aquamen.
I’m looking forward to the gills…
I thought the scientist/authors that conducted the Sea Temperature experiment issued a correction that noted their results were inaccurate citing faulty equipment.
Correction to “Recent Cooling of the Upper Ocean”
Yes, in the same sense that a reduction in the rate of increase for funding is a funding cut. I think this all kind of reinforces some basic inclinations Confucius had about 25 centuries ago:
“And it may be that we are in a period of less rapid warming.â€Â
Or … drumroll … cooling.
Lib math is so fun. Like when they call a decrease in the rate of growth a cut. Or when Baracky took a pay cut to go work for a non-profit after college.
Oh so true, JD TWP. Also like Wright just exaggerates while David Duke is TEH PIG NAZI OF EVUL!!!
Enough of you captialist running dog, minority oppressing TBP.
Sorry, JD TWP, I pass for caucasian so I’m eschewing my browness to embrace my inner typicality.
I don’t know if Robin has suggested y’all check it out, but I still really love debunkers.org. The blog is at the root level of the site is fine and all, but it is the forum that I find so compelling. Vis-a-vis just about any issue regarding junk science, they’ve had a discussion about it. What’s more, while traffic/participation seems to be something less than it used to be, the participants were and still are largely very very smart people, many of whom are scientists.
They’ve got a forum dedicated to AGW, moderated by a very articulate smarty named Jeff. It’s worth reading. It’s also worth going back through the archives. Of course, the whole affair is typically white.
BJ-TWandBP – Is that a form of self loathing, or are you just trying to understand the white experience?
JD TWP MCB(midget clown bitch):
Having fooled the public for over 40 years, my white typicality is deeply rooted in my faux caucasian life experience. Thus my typicality is embedded across the continental browness to provide shiney cover for my whiteness.
And still I can capitalistically exploit the children of brown people at any time, at my leisure!
BWAAA HAHAHAHA!!!
hey, Dan, \
passing thru Speculator , NY so just a moment: latest news: a Connecticut sized ice floe broke off of Antartica And every Spring has been 8 HOURS sooner per year…awesome science. Just too bad the G/W Denialists have so little science to continue the Mobile Oil’s propaganda project. Really, banking on that “thick” Artic Ice are you?
You mean the other Connecticut-sized ice floe that broke off a couple of years ago already grew back?
a Connecticut sized ice floe broke off of Antartica And every Spring has been 8 HOURS sooner per year
So in 1000 years, it would already have broken off last year? Spooky.
Really, banking on that “thick†Artic Ice are you?
If d2d’s skull thickness is any kind of metric for weather, I’d say keep those mittens out for at least 8 more weeks.
And every Spring has been 8 HOURS sooner per year…
That would be caused by the earth’s solar orbit accelerating, dave, and would be a little more alarming than global warming. Assuming that all the other seasons are also gaining 8 hours a year, it would also mean we are losing over a day per year on our calenders. I suspect you might be wrong again, imagine that.
Also, in a few more years we should reach escape velocity, which will definitely solve any global warming issues.
Connecticut isn’t that big really. It just sounds big cause of all the consonants.
And that’s not even accounting for the silent ones.
Connecticut isn’t that big really.
Maybe not, but I knew this guy who used to live there and he did some work for some rich people who lived in these huge brick houses and he said that there are big brick houses all over the state so it may not be big, but I bet it’s heavier’n shit.
Didn’t Connecticutt get really, really, heavy, man, when it was infused with Nedrenaline in ’06?
Or was that Jomentum? Dude, those heavy stimulants confuse me. And big brick houses too…
yes, it is true… libs are soooooo inclined to believe themselves of import as to actually believe that humans impact our climes more than say… I dunno… the Sun… or…. erm…. volcanoes! Because of teh Keanau Gort!
In fact, they believe it so much so, they are now putting corn-stuff into my car… you know the stuff we feed cattle, chickens… you know the things that produce milk and eggs… you know the stuff used to make chocolate and… eggnog. Right, so we really need to stop that because, well the only thing more important than fuel to a productive people is food… unless of course you would prefer we starve and or freeze to death so as to save it for the children who wont be here on account of us being dead. “You’re cooking with Ethanol!” Thanks a bunch, tree-huggers…
Hey, hey, datadave, that’s a lie, and you’re a liar. Yes, the iceberg did break off. The line on the graph shows total ice, divided by the average 1979-2000. Take a look at the very last data point.
Regards,
Ric
Still Ric,
A big chunk of ice with all those brick buildings on it floating around. Shouldn’t we shoot it out of the ocean with a missile or something?
And cows. Connecticut has several cows.
I wonder if dave ever actually thought anything through in his life. Not the critical thinker, little dave.
Why no, alpuccino. We ought to just let it alone. Winter is starting in the southern hemisphere, and it’ll all freeze back in a couple of months.
Warming, hah. It’s cold, and it’s gonna get colder unless God turns the Sun back on.
Regards,
Ric
By the way: when you start seeing this BS, you should check with the University of Illinois, which is charged with monitoring such things.
The image I linked to before came from that site (look at the extreme lower right). This one is also interesting. We’ve been below-normal in the Arctic for the last decade, and the trend over that period is downward; however, look at the last few data points.
It helps to have that sort of data at your fingertips when encountering the Left’s homeopathic approach to “reality”: take one gram of valid data, mix with one tonne of bullshit, and administer liberally.
Regards,
Ric
NO!!!!! Don’t blow it up!!!!
Let’s put our thinking caps on and be good little capitalists, shall we? The market should be easy enough to tap, what with them being morons with money to burn.
Frankly I am more worried about the world speeding up, Ric.
I wonder if we could use alphie’s balloon fence for a parachute?
No, B Moe. The right tool there would be alphie’s protective berms. If we build them high enough it increases the polar moment of inertia, and the rotation slows.
The balloon fence isn’t massive enough to make any difference. We might recycle the balloons to lift berm material high enough.
Regards,
Ric
Oh, and Pablo has a genius-level idea. What we need is a couple million polyacetyl one-liter bottles with labels that say something like GLOBAL WARMING COOLER. Then we go to the iceberg, jackhammer chips off and melt them, and fill the bottles. At $2.49 a pop(!) they ought to go gangbusters at every stop&rob in a blue state. There’s a fortune waiting for somebody with the scratch to do this.
Regards,
Ric
I’d weigh in on this subject, but frankly I’m still exhausted from having to shovel the snow from my walks and drives over the course of about fifteen different storms this past winter.
Normal winter, here in Happy Valley, central Utah = four or five storms that rate shovel work.
Five years ago, they were telling us our drought situation was such that it would be a generational struggle to see our aquifers replenished. This year’s message? No flooding, thank goodness, but they will have to let some excess go into early summer. And the North Platte aquifer that was going to take a decade to replenish?
Hell, I can’t find it mentioned in current events on a casual search…
AGC… or weather? I vote the latter, and welcome consensus!
#38
A giant Evenrude and directions to the middle east. The Saudis would go apeshit!
it’s what that bastard Reagan would do.
hey, Ric.
thx for the Data..they’re agreeing with Gore btw. What’s with you all? You give out data saying Global Warming is real and yet you don’t bother to read it?
“You’ve heard Al Gore comment that the “Earth has a fever”? It may also have major tooth decay. The 40Mb animation at the left shows the dramatic loss of multiyear sea ice over the past year. Multiyear sea ice is older and generally thicker ice – sea ice that has survived at least one melt season (shown in brighter white).”
jesus, it’s worse than I thought. thx, ric for not reading your data… and proving the G/W is real.
the other data: 8 hours decrease in Winter per year is pretty consistent and also based on infrared photography from space. 8 hours a year is pretty major.
Snow amounts locally are irrelevant as even here in the NE we had more than usual snow but it’s melting faster too and Spring is yet again earlier. But we have plenty of water. Unlike the Southwest or Southeast.
I did, in both cases, and nothing jumped out at me. What were you trying to point out, Ric?
Winter is by definition the duration between the winter solstice and the vernal equinox, which is by definition exactly one-fourth of a year. If one-fourth of a year is shortening up by 8 hours per year; we’re losing over a day and a half a year! You’re right! The problem is much more serious than we’d thought!
And of course that explains a great deal: if the year is shortening, that means the Earth’s orbit is getting smaller; we’re spiraling into the Sun! No wonder things are getting warmer!
strike over, insert nearly.
It’s early, is all I can say.
the other data: 8 hours decrease in Winter per year is pretty consistent and also based on infrared photography from space.
What the fuck are you talking about? How is global warming affecting the equinox? And most people here don’t question we are having a warm spell, we question Gore in his assertion that it is unusual or man-made. If you want to impress me, show me the global ice cap numbers for the past 5000 years. When you can do that, and a trend is obvious, then we can talk. Until then you shall remain datalessdave.
if the year is shortening, that means the Earth’s orbit is getting smaller…
Or we could be accelerating, in which case we will eventually reach escape velocity and the warming problem will be solved.
I don’t see why you’d be for special tax cuts for the oil companies as complained about in the Chait article. What’s the beef?
Anyway why is our governor supporting a nuc energy company from Texas over a locally grown success? http://www.7dvt.com/2008/green-miles
Republicans suck up to polluting companies for campaign dollars? Yupp!
And then Dan, you give me more ammunition with the NPR article that validates my off-the-cuff argument that global warming and a slight temporary chilling of the oceans would probably happen as bordering ice shelves would melt into the sea giving a temporary ice water decline in temps. (the Hot Air stuff is only preaching to the choir of denialists. )
If you guys want to just posture and look idiotic, go ahead, but at least read the data more closely (ric, et al). I think “naturalists” who get out of their cubicals more often seem to grasp what Nature is up against. Being in exurbia in Texas or LA and all isn’t a very appropriate place to examine it. At least in the Green Mountains or Adirondacks one can get away from the concrete wasteland to see what’s going on. Talk to maple sugar makers, farmers, etc…they know that global warming is real and they don’t even have to have someone from a college tell them that it’s happening.
slart.. don’t be stupid. I’m talking about biological winter. Like when trees bud, germination and such. 8 hours on average per year earlier.
eh, spring I meant.
Some could say that it’s good news that the growing season is getting longer. But that’s another argument but to say it’s not happening is grounds for ignoring the denialists and all their other stupid ideas like tax breaks for the wealthiest. And higher health care
costs!And then Mount Kilimanjaro’s snows aren’t real either…(soon).I think “naturalists†who get out of their cubicals more often seem to grasp what Nature is up against. Being in exurbia in Texas or LA and all isn’t a very appropriate place to examine it. At least in the Green Mountains or Adirondacks one can get away from the concrete wasteland to see what’s going on. Talk to maple sugar makers, farmers, etc…they know that global warming is real and they don’t even have to have someone from a college tell them that it’s happening.
OMG! He is right! I finally left my mom’s basement this morning, and THE TEMPERATURE HAS WENT UP TEN DEGREES IN THE PAST HOUR!!!11!!!! At this rate, it will be 150 degress by six oclock AND 210 BY MIDNIGHT!!!1!
WE ARE DOOMED!!11!!!eleven!111111!! WE ARE GOING TO BOIL AWAY AT MIDNIGHT!!11!!!!!!
health care
taxescosts. (Republicans wonder where the defense budget went?? look at health care monopolists.)but back to the environment…?
I’m talking about biological winter.
Another artificial construct created by the folks who are using it as evidence. How convenient.
I didn’t say we’re doomed, wacko. Just questioning why is their sooooo muchhhhh energy in denying something that science is gradually showing is true.
Why are YOU threatened by the truth?
that science is gradually showing is true.
Why are YOU threatened by the truth?
My science is showing we are doomed, dave, the temperature is rising ten degrees an hour here. Why are you threatened by the truth? Could it be my lack of data? That one hour is too short a time to speculate? Yet you make global predictions based on a couple of fucking farmers and a hundred years of suspect data. But I am the wacko.
let’s put it another way,,,, is the aspect of ‘change’ threatening to the conservatives. Like maybe a little less pollution and damage to the environment wouldn’t be such a threatening thing if you wern’t indentured to credit-based needs for income growth unnecessary for long-term happiness. Like having a little less of a plastic covered house but a healthier life style and being less in debt wouldn’t be so bad?
you see threats, and i see economic opportunity. the article about NRG (wind energy-based company in VT) I linked above is a case in point. That guy used to be a Republican..(I was lucky to ‘date’ once his sister, but she saw how poor I was…opps, my scratchy glasses and old car gave me away..)..but now has seen Republicans as a hindrance to progress. A more vital economy imo means more economic opportunities for smaller companies and less reliance on a mega corporation based in some polluted metropolis far away.
Whatever Spring Dataless is experiencing is countered by the TOTAL LACK of Spring here in Michigan. My lake is still frozen and there isn’t a bud to be seen anywhere.
…is the aspect of ‘change’ threatening to the conservatives.
Dude, you are the one freaking out about the fucking weather.
Remember, this is from the same folks who think trees make decent thermometers. Perfect, really.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88772863
Nothing like a little data to offset what amounts to rumor.
oh yeah, carin, Michigan is a little further north but which lake? Your pond doesn’t count. Lake Ontario hasn’t frozen over for quite awhile thus increasing lake effect snowfall. How’s Lake Michigan?
Horsehead bay may have some ice..but the rest of the great lakes are clear. Used to be solid ice sometimes not any more. http://www.wunderground.com/MAR/LM/848.html
still cherry picking I see.
Exactly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenology
Even when confronted with evidence of his perfidy, dataless remains faithful to teh narrative. Kudos, you are a good foot solider, dd.
dave, when the data falls smack in the middle of the historical range (and it’s worth noting that the historical range is, really, in this case only about four decades old), you’re going to have to do a bit more research to make your point. So far, you’ve failed to make it in epical fashion.
for some reason I wasn’t allowed to post a couple of other links here?
http://www.usanpn.org/
that one made it, the other one was rejected? not a big deal.
dude, the last 40+ years is about the time that humanity actually did make all the Major changes in the world. Before then we were mostly an agrarian culture with not that much ‘pollution’ or population growth. It’s been exponential in the last 40 years. So slart your database is pretty selective if you’re going back to the middle ages or something.
I’m a foot soldier for nobody besides myself. JD whomever? It’s just obvious if you spent much time out of doors.
Playing in traffic doesn’t count, dave.
epical? hmmm, we’re talking about human-caused events. Not geological Epic time periods. Although the ice data of Greenland suggests the recent changes are phenomenal. Maybe if you’d argue that perhaps it isn’t so bad this global warming but to deny it doesn’t exist is another thing.
you’re the traffic, Pablo, Trafficking in propaganda. Damn, you should get a check from Mobile/Exxon. All the leading Denialists do.
Yup, dd, I am a pasty white TWP, who never ventures outside except to scurry to the mailbox to collect the money we earn on the backs of women, children, and minorities. It is still cold here in parts of the heartland, chances of snow this weekend. Winter may be over there, but not here. We are begging for Spring.
What happened to the epidemic of global cooling, dd, and why should we place any more weight on global warming than we did on global cooling, given their track record? My companies stock went up 3/4 of a point yesterday. Using liberal math and science, I can expect our stock to increase by 273.75 points this calendar year, and in the next 10 years, 2737.50. Buy now, folks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology
eh? Dan? oh well, “intelligent design” is an example of a teleological argument?
happyfeet, Marxists aren’t very comfortable with environmentalism as it reduces the value of “Production” (as in 5 year plans of the old Soviet Union). u gotta get out of your LA cubical and buy a Toyota truck with a cami sleeping bag in back with the cap and go drive north 300 miles into the Sierras. Camp out for awhile. Get a Breath of Fresh Air will ya?
I still hope to do more skiing and expect I will as there are still some deep snow in the ADKs. And it is still March in the North land so I expect real vernal-ity to come later than the calender date. So what? We’re talking science not our own little anecdotes which I admit I like to do. JK Typical white person…ok.
That ‘global cooling’ thing was a fad to get people to see a movie about the ice age wasn’t it? It was about a week-long in which decade? I can’t remember. We both know that reporters like to sell copy about scary stuff that might not happen…but this science based global warming thing’s been a bit longer.
is your stock labeled TWP on the stock exchange or what?
we twps might be minority stock holders in awhile. Raising sea levels we’ll force Indians and Bangladeshis somewhere…I guess to Silicon Valley and Indianapolis I guess.
So, if we are to accept dd’s assertions, the longer the meme is perpetuated, the more it becomes beyond debate. Interesting, that.
I also love how the global cooling whack jobs “fad” is minimized so quickly by dd.
Jd, I can’t even remember the ‘global cooling’ thing. remind me will ya?
Dude, the cherry trees in Washington DC have only been there since 1910-ish. They died back a great deal during WWII, and were replanted in 1965, and again in 1982.
In any case, people have only been keeping track of the blooming dates for the past few decades. So, you see, there is, in fact, a point behind what I’ve said. You might consider trying to make a point yourself, sometime, because on the off-chance there actually is one, it’s not going to make itself.
such self pity…eh, makes me want to cry for you, JD, NOT! Go roller blading to get in shape for next year’s skiing season. I expect to enjoy Spring….it’s here with the sun out now….even if a little chilly before it came up.
u need memory for a ‘meme’ can’t even remember what the conservatives are talking about… Oh, Reagan! it’s all about Him! what a ‘meme’.
Natural cycle vs. alarmist claptrap. These natural cycles of “heating” and “cooling” have existed and will continue to exist with or without the devious actions of us capitalists.
Why is it that all evidence that runs counter to the AGW movement is brushed aside as being an outlier, or a result of a natural cycle, but they refuse to even consider that their whole theory might be a natural cycle?
Personally I think we should ban glaciers, figure out what the optimal earth temperature is, pass legislation that stops the Sun from ever changing, and build a big ass heating and cooling system to maintain perfect climate control for the Earth.
Slart, slart, slart…the article wasn’t even a minor bit about cherry trees in Wash. DC. that’s was the reporter’s segue, nothing else.
I suppose you’ll say she’s gay cause she has short hair: http://globalmonitoring.sdstate.edu/people.php?a=show&id=17
one of many links to the scientist interviewed in the NPR report.
agw movement….eh. sorry what’s the “a” about?
alleged global warming? are you being creative again, JD?
interesting that the scientist is Dutch. If anyone would want to deny ‘global warming’ they would…but they’re not as they are so far ahead of us in science….we’re relatively paleolithic. They’re planning by not fighting it but by planning floating cities, even flooting farms and reducing use of land and allow rising waters to by pass population centers..but since she’s moved to the USA with a host of others….maybe they aren’t as comatose as Americans.
I usually lead with my left, too, when I’m trying to make a point.
Listening to the NPR article, they’re comparing the 2006 spring to 1982 spring. They’re, in fact, comparing two different years. Of course, there’s never any natural variation between any two years.
Slarti – I would be shocked, shocked I tell you, to find out that they were disingenuous in their specific selection of those 2 years.
Also, isn’t it that same crowd that always squeals that you cannot look at short term geographical data as global climate change, impacted by AGW, is constantly changing?
Dave, you continue to spout nonsense. I don’t have any particular aversion to either short hair or gays, but it does appear that her hair is tied back. Not that it matters, but then little of what you say does.
But global warming has nothing to do with environmentalism, datadave person.
a steady advance of time of biological vernal appearance from 82 to w/e…. steady increase…you’re shopping around are you?
happy, u didn’t even know what cherry-picking was I recall.
But global warming has nothing to do with environmentalism, datadave person. huh?
‘course it’s all about Antisemitism according to PW. (check out the smear of General McPeak whomever). As if Israel is holy or something?
come on, do you folks have any rhetorical ethics? or personal ones? go drive off a cliff….like Lindberg did with his pro Nazi rants of the 30s.
is that a rabbit over there!?
slart, part of the Republican zeitgeist is homophobia, I just thought you’d not notice the tied back hair, I did, but I get how Republicans usually are.
JD likes to parody how “libs” think Republicans are….oh, “we’re” into killing seal pups with large baseball bats and rolling over hippy grandmas with our Hummers, and oil slicks are good for keeping the mosquitoes from hatching and damn those Enviros for not letting me spray DDT everywhere to keep the bugs from my country club. Well, a parody perhaps…but where’s the good side of Republicans? They used to be into conservation, balanced budgets and rectitude in pub(l)ic affairs …like not dumping your cancerous wife for a younger gal…(which seems to be pro forma with Republican leaders of late).
and Wars are good for the economy.
And anyone who disagrees with them is a Fascist AntiSemite. Yeah, sure.
Ooooh…shiny.
Back to the point, though:
The NPR bit in question doesn’t do anything but allude to a “steady advance”, dave. What it’s discussing, in particular, is the comparison of two, and only two, calendar years.
Which, for the most part, there should be no natural variation at all. In the olden days, you could count on the blossoms always opening on the same day, and the last day of snow being the same day, from year to year.
Now, if you have a source of actual data, please link to it. It should be easy, given that you’re all about the data.
rabbit? what rabbit? where’s your pitbull? I hope you have rabbits.
No, you don’t. You get how the Republicans in your head are. The real world is, believe it or not, different from your fantasy world. Maybe you should get out more.
You don’t even know if I’m a Republican, or what that would mean to me if I were.
(check out the smear of General McPeak whomever)
Quoting someone is a smear again. That is great. It never gets old. McPeak also thinks that we should be in Iraq for the next 100 years, if that is what it takes, and he is a Baracky adviser. So, is Baracky not listening to his own experts, who actually have experience?
part of the Republican zeitgeist is homophobia
When dave gets riled up, he just starts making shit up, or overtly lying. In any case, this is an overt lie.
I linked you 3 other sites esp. about that Dutch PhD. Hey, I heard it about 4 days ago. I am just giving you data to compete with the seriously limited judicially selected stuff I get here. and how’s anti-Semitism linked to global warming as PW is trying to link Obama to that too? I, more or less, like Dan, but not his politics obviously. I learn some fancy words here and learn a few things. And I like to argue. Shoot me.
I don’t pretend to be the expert but “data” is in my email address also. It has a ring with ‘dave’.
To have all the various Environmental data coming at me at the same time while hearing meddlesome opinionated bs from the status quo protectors based on a few scientists funded by conservative think tanks and/or Mobil/Exxon, I have to continue to pile on as there is nothing worse than a big Lie that could do major damage to a fragile environment that’s getting worse by the minute. Bats on the edge of extinction for example…like who’s going to eat all those pesky mosquitoes …Just Spray more shit! It all fits within the big Ecological framework. Eco=house, Earth=our big house. Mess it up and mess us up.
None of which were, in fact, links to data, or even reduced data. Or even pictures of reduced data.
Sometimes I wonder if you understand what this “data” concept is all about, dave.
No, you’re not. Dave, I have more than a passing acquaintance with data, and what you’ve provided doesn’t even come close to qualifying. I don’t have any particular problem with ignorance, but I do think that arguing out of near-total ignorance, whilst spewing your scorn of the stupid hicks who disagree with you, is particulary tasty irony.
sorry, JR, but that homophobia thing works. When some Vermonters tried to get civil unions for gays and it passed the Republican party took it to the airwaves about “Family Values” being threatened by gay rights and they regained the nation’s largest gain of Republican statehouse reps. back in TAKE BACK VERMONT days.. (those signs are still up a lot of places). After awhile it gets old the Homophobia thing and people start accepting them as people… but it works to scare people even some liberal types like myself who are not that comfortable with the gays…but except their right to rights as citizens. But your blue-collar NRA type of guy can be set to foaming at the mouth over the ‘gays’ and they’ll vote every time for a Republican even though the Republicans are making it harder for the lower middle class in a multitude of ways.
I have no idea where your tag is from, slart. sometime give us a hint. bart’s for simpson?
so far you’ve given no data, just criticism.
If I thought you were ‘stupid hicks’ I wouldn’t bother.
tell us how Global Warming is a Communist plot of Socialist Enviromentalists out to destroy capitalism and install One World Govt.
Maybe I’d better play the game here more often. Parody?
Again with the making shit up stuff, data. Quit arguing with the voices in your head?
While you are at it, care to tell us which candidate has supported gay marriage? Are you unable, or unwilling, to understand the difference between opposition to gay marriage and homophobia? Which race, a core Dem constituency, is most opposed to gay marriage?
“so far you’ve given no data, just criticism”
I’m not making any claims, dave. Why on earth would I give data to substantiate no claims? You, on the other hand, are making claims, and I’d guess that if you buy into those claims, you’ve seen data. So that makes me ask you to share, because I’d like to see it, too!
If not, then never mind. You can’t reason someone out of a position that they didn’t reason themselves into to begin with.
yeah, Obama’s race. So what? It’s a Big Tent Party. But obviously the other party uses the fear of gays as a political tactic. And if it worked in Vermont, don’t tell me it doesn’t work in Indiana.
They tried to tar and feather the famous sex researcher there didn’t they. But a brave, liberal president of the university stopped ’em.
It’s the AntiSemites like McPeak who are trying to use Global Warming as a way to distract Americans from our God-Driven Duty to defend Israel from the AntiChrists of Palestinians who want Israel’s holy water to bath their olive groves and annoint their prolific families. Don’t let Environmentalism stop us from fighting against Jihad. We most open up the taps of oil in our own nation even in national parks or Israel and the USA will perish!! Oh, my G——-D!
But Chait’s a liar? Slart. That’s the “Claim”.
Mine? My claim? I’m not making that claim, so you can’t ask me to support it.
The Phenological Reports ended suddenly in 1948 after 58 years, and Britain was without a national recording scheme for almost 50 years, just at a time when climate change was becoming evident. During this period, important contributions were made by individual dedicated observers. The naturalist and author Richard Fitter recorded the First Flowering Date (FFD) of 557 species British flowering plants in Oxfordshire between about 1954 and 1990. Writing in Science in 2002, Richard Fitter and his son Alistair Fitter found that “the average FFD of 385 British plant species has advanced by 4.5 days during the past decade compared with the previous four decades.”[9] [5] They note that FFD is sensitive to temperature, as is generally agreed, that “150 to 200 species may be flowering on average 15 days earlier in Britain now than in the very recent past” and that these earlier FFDs will have “profound ecosystem and evolutionary consequences”.
among the many sources I’d already supplied.
those damned lying plants and flowers. We should just mow ’em down.
sans a link, of course.
It’d still be nice to see the data, dave, and it’d be very nice to see what it is they mean by comparing one decade to the previous four decades. Are they talking average? Trend? Who can tell?
Does it mean global warming? Regional climate change? Who can tell?
Slartibartfast,
He’s going with the wiki on Phenology, and the reason he’s not providing a link is that his talking point is discredited. on the talk page.
I’d look into this more, but lunch is almost over.
Frankly, I think phenology and phrenology have more than a little in common.
hey, I am learning too. season creep wasn’t in my vocabulary ’til today or maybe with the multitude of data out there esp. in reference to glacial retreat, I forgot it. Also of course wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_creep#cite_note-Delbart2007-26
check out the biblio there.
but alas, the Damned Communists own Wikipedia (according to my souces here at PW).
Oh, PINKY, don’t forget NPR…Dan used it. He most be shoot, or Shat! NPR, NPR… otherwise known as National Petroleum Radio. But a FellowTraveler.
DAN, you most make amends! At least you gave us a HoT Air link and a anti-anti Semitic screed against AntiChrist Obama.
Funny, Data – it doesn’t say anywhere that early blooming was a result of human activity. The environmental argument is a shell game. Many people have admitted that we’ve been in a warming trend. In dispute is whether it’s caused by man, whether man can affect the change by giving Al Gore money, and the degree of “warming” that has occurred. Pointing out that plants are blooming four days earlier than they did 50 years ago contributes not at all to this argument.
You know what’s funny about plants blooming early? We had an ultra hard frost very late last year and it killed a couple of my Newport Plums.
Hey wait. That’s not funny, that’s cold.
“Below are some effects of climate change that we see happening now.
* Arctic sea ice is melting. The summer thickness of Arctic icebergs is about half of what it was 50 years ago. This melting ice may someday cause changes in the world’s ocean currents.
* Sea level is rising. During the 20th century, sea level rose 10-20 cm (4-8 inches) due to melting glacier ice and expansion of warmer seawater . In the next 100 years, sea level may rise as much as 85 cm (33 inches). This is a threat to people living near the coast, wetlands, and coral reefs.
* Sea-surface temperatures are warming. Some animals, such as corals, cannot live in warmer seas. Over the past few decades, about a quarter of the world’s coral reefs have died.
* Heavier rainfall causes flooding in many regions as warmer temperatures speed up the water cycle. In the last ten years, floods have caused more damage than in the previous 30 years.
* There have been changes in where we can farm: As climates warm, some mid-latitude places, like Europe, are getting a longer growing season, while some tropical places are becoming too hot and dry to grow crops.
* The amount of drought may be increasing. Higher temperatures lead to a high rate of evaporation and very dry conditions in some areas of the world. Researchers are not sure if drought has increased as a result of current warming.
* Severe weather events may be more common and stronger. Some researchers say that the number and strength of hurricanes, tornadoes, and other events has increased over the last 15–20 years. However, scientists are still looking into this.
* Ecosystems are changing. As temperatures warm, species may migrate to cooler places or die. Species that are in particularly danger include endangered species, coral reefs, and polar animals such as penguins, polar bears and seals.
for some reason this link won’t work here
I thought u said, ‘global warming’ is a chimera or something, caron. U mean their are Commi’s in your neighborhood telling there is now. Just close your ears.
Now, on a personal note. Possums aren’t native to Vermont looked it up before I came here. I am driving up the road first week I am here and see a dead one in the road. Then more and more. Somehow the book’s wrong. Then Cardinals aren’t supposed to be up here very often and in Minnesota same thing…they there and here all the time now.
Man-caused? You don’t think it even exists so why bother. It’s a Communist Plot I tell you. Close your ears!
sorry for the bolds….didn’t / it in time….
I am betting on upstate NY being a breadbasket for the East. Pretty good land prices there now. The farmers there seem to know it as they’re not selling.
house prices good there though…but major farmers aren’t selling. Damned good crops. They harvest in December!
And the proof of any of that is ? How about the proof of any of that being causally related to AGW? How does any of that compare to the decades before and after the last Ice Age? How did those dastardly homos cause the last Ice Age to melt off?
Nice-looking scientist, there, Dave. Interesting, though, that sea level rose 4-8 inches in a century. I wonder if the uncertainty bands are really that wide? I mean, how can we not know how much sea level has risen? We know how much temperature has risen, after all. The trees have spoken.
Meanwhile, none of the IPCC predictions show 85cm sea level rise over the next century. The average of the upper ends of all the various models predict about half that. I was hoping for some rate of rise more consistent with what Gore was predicting, so that I might be closer to the beach.
LOOK, I can cut and past too!
Regarding temps:
If global warming is a part of out planet’s life cycle, so to speak, ALL that you list is simply a side effect of a process we have no control over.
Regarding plants, animals moving … I believe that is simply a part of life as well. There used to be a glacier over Michigan. THAT’S some global warming.
slart, I almost left for my half day of work..but came back to heat some soup. I believe the IPCC was under political pressure to moderate it’s projections and just to be ‘conservative’ in it’s analysis.
The Greenland ice cap melting is a worrisome irregular, if the whole thing melted it’d be 20 feet in rise and it’s melting faster than ever.. .but a whole mile or two of ice depth should take a few centuries, shouldn’t it? So what if a heaping 10 percent goes in fifty years? 2 feet of ocean rise.. and that’s just one ice cap. Antarctica? Much bigger.
Now, I bad, putting out another Progressive AntiAmerican NPR link
It is just that it’s a great website and noncommerical. I don’t think NBC CBS or even BBC does websites as well which is maybe why
Dan and Happy link to NPR too.
There used to be a glacier all the way down to the middle of Indiana. Why, I remember one winter the snow^H^H^H^Hglacier was up to the gutter of my garage; that’s how much climate has changed in the last few decades.
Why did you have to leave work in order to heat your soup dave? Is your AGW not strong enough to heat the soup for you? That is some weak AGW right there dave.
Carin – Using a broad view of historical climate patterns makes their theory look kind of foolish. That is why people like data prefer to limit their discussion to the last 40 years, or like the flower people, to the period immediately following a time where there was no data to compare it to. Convenient, that.
hey, if another Ice Age comes we can give up on arguing politics and have fun being one big family. Sort of like how some people miss the good days after 9/11 when Democrats and Republicans kissed and made up and passed big tax cuts for the rich.
Any of you heard of James Howard Kuntsler? He’s a damn good writer but with extreme survivialist tendencies relating to Peak Oil and the demise of our oil based system and his new book got a great review in the NYSun which is conservative btw. Do I buy into his stuff? Not quite. He predicted major disasters in the past that didn’t happen but his esthetic isn’t bad: World Made by Hand…it’s a novel. A little too close to the Jericho tv type of thing imo. But a good read so far.
Now reading the future is tough, How many of us would think we’d do so little in the past 4 decades. Like no mar’s landing, cars with the same gas mileage as 40 years ago, etc. and better in Nanotech and computers but really just minor bells and whistles compared to the futurist’s predictions of years ago. Greening of America, ha, whatever happened to that.. maybe it’s just delayed a bit.
ok, ok,, give it up.. .what’s the A stand for Alleged?
the last 40 years is when all the action is.. that’s why. Huge increases of pollution, greenhouse gases, that’s because soccer moms were scared by right wing politicians talking about crime all the time and everybody had to drive their kids to practice instead of letting walk to little league or ride their bikes.
I hate living under a glacier every day, I come to PW just to remind myself that glacial life is worth living.
All mankind have
no idea what it
takes to
have the
right kind
of
power
over
greenhouse gases and
every other
noxious fume
in the atmosphere. It’s a
crisis.
Looks like dogmadave worships at the Anthropogenic Global Warming altar. (That’s what the ‘a’ means, asshat. It’d help your creditability if you had bothered to educate yourself before entering the argument.)
Dave, there are glaciers that are shrinking, and there are glaciers that are expanding. Do some real research, including looking at the serious skeptics. And, then, ask yourself why we should be worried about warming when, historically, warmer temperatures have correlated with better times for humanity.
dd – How to the computer models that are being used to predict the AGW scenarios predict next weeks weather? Next months? Next years?
Huge increases of pollution, greenhouse gases, that’s because soccer moms were scared by right wing politicians talking about crime all the time and everybody had to drive their kids to practice instead of letting walk to little league or ride their bikes
It is always just a matter of time until it all gets blamed on Republicans.
Reid Bryson, with an R behind his name? But I am sure we can get opinions selectively every which way. I just don’t see a multitude of scientists denying that g/w doesn’t exist. Maybe he’s brother to the English/American Bill Bryson fellow who’s funnier than hell.
didn’t make it to work as my last night’s take home fell out of the door (which i forgot) and I had to use the evil microwave supplied by Chinese laborers and American designers (long ago) to heat it. Do you have to get so technical Alpucino? oops. that’s why you’re funny.
What caused the Roman Warm Period? Or the Medieval Climate Optimum?
What? That’s a horribly convoluted sentence — what were you trying to say?
I just don’t see a multitude of scientists denying that g/w doesn’t exist.
So the majority of scientists deny that AGW exists? Or many scientists don’t deny that AGW doesn’t exist? Or do alot of scientists deny that they deny any global warming denial.
Junk English.
sorry Rob.
And, dave, there’s a fundamental difference between Anthropogenic Global Warming and just-plain Global Warming. The former is the theory that says we have to live like medieval peasants under our socialist vanguard overlords to save us all from the weather; the latter is just an observation on global average temperatures.
If mankind is causing Earth’s climate to change, why are we also seeing climate change on Mars and Jupiter? What have we done to either of those planets? What could we do to Jupiter?
thank you Rob. Anthropogenic
We liberals Anthropomorphize Everything. We get so Personal. Our Politics are Personal (Jeff says so!). It’s like People are Important or something.
Nature too! Nature doesn’t give a flying fuck about what people think about it…but the Romance of Nature started perhaps in the 19th century although St. Francis had a headstart on the Hudson valley school of artistes. Damned naturalists, Thoreau as any early proponent of “nature” worship, we don’t get into manifest dystiny in Iraq nor Texas. Like going down their and fighting them Mexicans was bad, all bad. WE be bad by staving in Progress.
Bad Naturalists! Evil, Bad. Too personal, too delicate. Bend to the will of Progress, and buy that McMansion and get a Hummer…maybe a small “h” hummer is more like it…eh, Too Damned personal and Individual!
Oh, you Progress-lovers even bought into the Anthro-thing. The Narrative has overwhelmed you. John Galt would shudder and lose his hard-on. Let the System prevail, The Vulture of Selfishness most be fed. Global Warming be damned.
double negative.. really bad, my Englishmajor/gf wud Kill Me!!!
dd – You must be functionally illiterate. Nobody “denies” that the temperatures have been trending up, at a less than alarming rate for most. What we dispute, and you fail to understand, is that the trend constitutes a crisis, given the broad based historical climate change of good old Mother Gaia, who has managed to be quite resilient. One can also question the degree to which mankind has influenced this trend, as opposed to volcanos, for instance.
now you got me, Rob.
I surrender. That data from the Planets… most be Romantic Composers this time! Anthro-that!
well it helps to explain the “A” first as most of the time global warming itself has been denied here and elsewhere in the rightwing “press”. Or minimalized. And it’s highly unlikely that such a massive outpouring of CO2 is not a factor…and that’s another peg in the Anthro side of things.
It’s the manmade volcanos what are the worst. Stoopid warmy lava.
no one said it’s a terrible crisis. .just that it should be planned for an acknowledged. And a whole political culture developed over Denial of it. I am not sure if you realize how far back the Denial funded by Mobil/Exxon goes. It’s in the 1970’s when the big wigs got together to fight the scientists. Bill Simon amongst the CEO’s and Texas oil men. I am asking do you want to be a tool of them? Or just be a little more independent thinking.
My riled-up revulsion to the orchestrated antiEnviromentalists funded by big oil is just due to the long time observation of how they operate and the negativity they’ve shown towards environmental concerns in general.
Really? What caused the Medieval Climate Optimum and the Roman Warm Period? BTW — I’m aware of another, even earlier period of warm climate roughly 3,000 years ago. It’s rather odd how the warm periods correspond to the flourishing of pre-Columbian cultures here in the US; the Poverty Point culture (3,000 BP), the Adena/Hopewell (2,000 BP, Roman Warm Period), and the Mississippian (roughly 1,000 BP, Medieval Climate Optimum).
As for the planets, Jupiter has developed a second red spot. Considering the AGW crowd’s love of associating climate change with hurricanes, you’d think they’d be interested in a cyclonic storm big enough to swallow the Earth.
Mars, like Earth, appears to be recovering from an Ice Age.
Quoted from M. Simon in another thread.
World temps have been stable since 2002. Except for this year they have started falling. So far about .1 deg C which is a lot for climate science. BTW that is according to the most reliable satellite data.
Solar scientists are predicting a little ice age with its depth around 2030. So far they appear on target. The next solar cycle has yet to start. NASA says maybe some time in 2009. Making it at least a year late.
As usual – once government is ready to act the problem has changed. Add science to the things McCain could use a refresher course on.
And it’s highly unlikely that such a massive outpouring of CO2 is not a factor
Is that your gut talking again?
I’m not sure if you realize how insane you are. Proof? Evidence? From a sane source?
oh, happy, that was so sexual and personal. Keep the porn away from me as I got to go back to work. Play Balero for me will ya?
U still need to get that Toyota truck with a cap and a bear skin blankee in the back and go North. Bring a honey if you get lucky. Make some volcanoes in the Sierras.
Full page anti environmentalist Ads in the NYTimes mid 1970s and on, Mobil Oil at the bottom. William Simon, granddaddy of all the major rightwing thinktankerists. Give him credit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Simon
doesn’t do him credit as he was secretive. how about the attempted insert: ” “Mr. Simon is commonly acknowledged as a legendary architect of the modern conservative movement. But he was also legendarily mean, “a mean, nasty, tough bond trader who took no BS from anyone,” in the words of his old friend Ed Feulner, president of the Heritage Foundation. Simon was known to awaken his children on weekend mornings by dousing their heads with buckets of cold water. “
English is, what, your twelfth language? And you learned it from comic books, right?
Anthropogenic means “caused or produced by humans” — it’s the cause by humans part that’s controversial.
Anthropomorphize means “to ascribe human form or attributes to” — like calling on Lady Luck, or Old Man Winter.
What the fuck are you talking about?
If you mean what I believe you do, then you’ve just admitted that AGW/Climate Change and the measures to “combat” it have more to do with forcing society into a pattern you find preferable than with any real risks. You dislike the “Vulture of Selfishness” you see in a free society with a free market, so you want it squashed; AGW/Climate Change is just a convenient club.
Rob, I get accused of jumping around from subject to subject…but you make me look pitiful in your planet-jumping abilities.
Datalessdave: Choke on this:
Climate Facts to Warm to
So? Environmentalists != scientists. Or do you believe Mobil shouldn’t have the same right to advance its interests that Greenpeace has?
So what? How does that make a difference to the validity of the claims of the AGW/Climate Change movement?
Which, BTW, was claiming we had an Ice Age coming in the 1970s.
Do we have choice of being baked to a delicate crunch or quick fried to a crackly crunch?
Starship Troopers A wonderfully funny parody of an essentially fascistic book. The Movie Kills Me every time esp. since I read the book.
Funny thing. I have never met Exxon or Mobil.
I would prefer to be a tool of a captialist than a a tool of a socialist, Marxist, and globalist movement, designed to cripple the US economy. But that is just me.
Eh? What the hell are you talking about?
If Earth is warming, is it because of something mankind has done, or is it because of a natural process? There’s a clue in the fact that other planets, that have been minimally touched (Mars) or completely untouched (Jupiter) by man, are also seeing warming.
If Earth is warming, is it unprecedented, or has it happened before? Well, it’s clearly happened before. So were those previous instances anthropogenic? Well, just what was going on in 1,000BC, a little after 1AD, and around 1,000AD that could have changed the climate? I submit that nothing parallel with modern human industry was happening during those years.
So, in the end, we have three previous instances on Earth that could not be caused by man’s CO2 production, and two current examples on other planets that cannot be caused by man’s CO2 production.
Why must we assume that any current warming, here on Earth, is caused by a different mechanism than the other occurrences of warming? Isn’t that assumption violating Occam’s Razor? Isn’t it also violating the assumption of universality that underlies science?
depends on how typically white you are BJTexs. me I’d quick fry.
Clearly you read it with the same level of intelligence you’ve brought to your discussions here. There’s nothing particularly fascist in Starship Troopers, except in the modern left’s use of the word to mean “something I don’t like”.
“the only dead bug is a dead bug” “I’m from Buenos Aires and I say kill ’em all!”
Kill them Environmentalist Bugs, Kill em! Iraqis and Islamic terrorists too.
Funny thing. I have never met Exxon or Mobil.
I worked for Mobil once. A total lying bastard that one.
On the plus side we did go out during our lunch and force feed 10W40 to seagulls and small minority children. So not a total loss.
Okay dave. I’m pretty sure you’re not supposed to stick the nicotine patch on your tongue.
Oh, it’s entertaining and probably essentially ‘true’ as too military discipline and very accurate about a kid’s motivations for getting into the army. Esp. with it’s Army advisor/friend dedicated by Heinlien the author…but logical? Like really plausible? Let’s just throw a few nukes around but not too many and well, think about the distances involved and all. What’s Heinlein getting at? Those Anthro-tank things being run by real humans…when a computer would be more efficient?
Drones are the future and not too many of them. If anything, war is obsolete.
Al: Weren’t you supposed to be responsible for dave’s mega dose Ritalin? His middle school teacher has been calling and calling…
the plus side we did go out during our lunch and force feed 10W40 to seagulls and small minority children. So not a total loss.
Don’t forget the fact that you were prolly pumping the old folks full of petrol, rectally. Those nozzles were designed for that. And, Kyoto.
Have you ever noticed how when dave offers up his opinions (which he calls well researched facts) he also offers up some rebuttal that clearly comes from the caricature of a Republican that lives in his head? He rebuts his own nonsense with more absurd nonsense which is supposed to represent the opinions of the PW readers.
You don’t need to interact with him, as he has both parts of the “argument” covered.
What the hell are you talking about?
he’d like his sci-fi less fiction-y. and computers aren’t really the answer cause they always get out of control and kill everyone. duh. you’d think someone named dave would know that.
Al? RITALIN?? NOW!!!!
The sad thing is, Starship Troopers is mostly a philosophic monologue on why mankind fights. There are people in the MI because that’s necessary in order to ask that question.
And you’d think a modern Democrat — the party that’s issuing calls to reinstate the draft and calling for “mandatory volunteerism” — would take a shine to the idea of limiting the franchise to those who have volunteered for public service. The service in ST wasn’t just military; Rico’s best friend ended up doing research, and the recruiter stated that if you were blind, deaf, and wheel-chair bound, they’d find a job for you, even if it meant having you count the hairs on a caterpillar for the length of your term.
But I guess I read the book for comprehension, and dave didn’t.
BTW: I wanted to invite all of the esteemed regulars to my Spotted Owl and Penguin spit roast. We’ll be featuring marinated and braised polar bear with pilot whale fin garnish as well as Red Squirrel soup and fricasse of tiger cub served in individual ivory tusks.
R.S.V.P.
Oh and there will be lots of cool games for the kiddies, including the join hands and dance around the toxic garbage and live rainforest wood bonfire.
You must bring your own gas masks and Vaseline.
Bj – That was hysterical.
Is a TWP mouse anything like a titmouse?
Think of the Mickey Mouse Club song.
“If you mean what I believe you do, then you’ve just admitted that AGW/Climate Change and the measures to “combat†it have more to do with forcing society into a pattern you find preferable than with any real risks. You dislike the “Vulture of Selfishness†you see in a free society with a free market, so you want it squashed; AGW/Climate Change is just a convenient club.”
180 degrees wrong. The ‘system’ is as Friedman/Greenspan says it is, Unrestrained Markets (and winner takes all) and Virtue of Selfishness is the prime manifesto of our time. (by Ayn Rand—read it, a tautological argument but in essence the most clear vision of today’s elite’s attitudes and beliefs. I think she is probably the Marx of our era.)
Socialism, enforced by means of a made up crisis ?
I was out BJ. I’m calling time of death – 2007.
Are u talking about the Surge? still born perhaps?
Dave, you still make no sense.
Have you considered what I wrote in comment 169? Does that put any doubt in your mind?
(As for migrating possums — hey, there weren’t any coyotes around here when I was a kid, and now they’re here. I don’t remember any geese, either, but now they’re road hazards.)
Hey, I was just watching Bill McKibben debating a local right winger about global warming etc. Pretty much the world’s expert on it as a writer: The End of Nature circa ’70s. Pretty stupid ?s thrown at him like won’t One World govt force us to take our barbeque grills away? But ignoring the govt forceing us to fight for oil in the Middle East. Either way force will happen. Conserve and do better on energy use and less force is involved not less.
The prehistoric natural changes probably are dwarfed by the unnatural events brought about the huge increase in one species dominating the planet. An Anomaly that as a human we have to consider. So just ignoring the probability of AGW or just GW is an option? When we have 7 billion or more humans exponentially taking over the once “natural” planet, all options most be considered as to how to deal with the probability of ocean levels rising amongst other likely events. We’re dealing in a short time period…not some million year event like a possible large volcanic action or meteor or something. Since the negative consequences of ‘global warming’ are probably preventable and even might turn a profit or two in innovation and in conservation of energy.. why not?
as I said nature doesn’t give a rat’s ass about humans so why would events on other planets should effect me unless we live there? And the anomalies, the atmosphere, the gases on the surfaces of those other planets aren’t comparable to our planet except in a very theoretical way that may be of interest to the astrophysicist or whomever…but to base public policy on?
Why would events on other continents affect me unless I live there — except in terms of what they may tell me about forces outside my continent that do affect me here…?
Dogmadave, you’re not merely an idiot, you’re proud of it.
So that that mean we can quit spinning about AGW?
McGhee, you’re a McCain gurl.
you ain’t raining on my parade, you’re raining McCain.
And dogmadave just keeps proving me right about him.
Who? What? Are his qualifications that he’s a writer? I take it, from the book title, that he has a particular viewpoint? Has he ever debated Bjorn Lomborg?
Uh, because they might tell us something about our own freaking world? And what they tell us might mean we don’t have to sacrifice the liberty and wealth we’ve developed?
The planets orbiting Sol have two major factors in common when it comes to their energy balance — they share the same primary source AND they’re relatively close (in astronomical terms). They also happen to be — in relation to each other — isolated systems. When you see three of them reacting in similar ways at the same time, the first place to look is in the common elements, not to dismiss two of them and declare the third to be a completely unique case.
“Probably”? What do you base this on? Do you understand how the mass of the Earth’s atmosphere compares to the mass of CO2 humanity has released over the course of its existence? Or how water vapor compares to CO2 as a “greenhouse gas”? Or, for that matter, how small the total mass of humanity (and all our works) is compared to the mass of the atmosphere or the rest of the biosphere?
What you’re indulging in, dave, is magical thinking. Among the basic assumptions of science are that physical laws do not change over time or across space (tho there are border cases such as in the earliest instances after the Big Bang, or inside the event horizon of a black hole). If you throw out that assumption without evidence — as you’re doing in regards to the other planets AND historical warm periods — you may as well say that we have to change our ways because we’ve offended Gaia, and only massive sacrifices in our lifestyles, liberties, and very lives will appease Her.
Not that I’d be surprised; when the AGW crowd started blaming CO2 for earthquakes, it became pretty clear that it was more a matter of faith and an odd aesthetic/religious movement than anything to do with real science.
But we’re not talking about innovation and conservation — those, in fact, are happening on their own — we’re talking about regulation and manipulating the economy to force specific outcomes.
What will we be foregoing by taking those steps? Are we better off, in both economic and moral terms, taking the drastic steps called for by the AGW crowd (reducing GHG emissions to below 1990 levels?!), or in taking other actions that improve the human lot? Is it better to spend money “dealing with” rising sea levels (for which the evidence is, at best, unclear), or to help Third World nations develop effective drinking water and sewage handling systems?
Why are so few of the AGW crowd pushing for nuclear power as an alternative to fossil fuels? Are they truly worried about the effects of CO2 released to the atmosphere, or are their concerns elsewhere? Why have environmentalists said that cheap, clean energy is their worst nightmare, when cheap, clean energy would make it possible to recycle everything?
McGheehee, stfu. you worthless bag of kerpluuuuy.
Back to at least somebody beyond grunting epithets.
Rob. Oh, the Commie environmentalists want your Toaster too!!! “sacrifice the liberty and wealth we’ve developed”. Jeesh, Paranoid are you? No one suggested limiting you liberty or wealth. In fact, unrestrained environmental devastation would do that more than I would. I don’t want your stuff…so why worry about it?
Bill McKibben gets major play even in the WSJ or National Review. Even if they spout the same party line against environmentalists in general. He’s a major intellect in the field. Bjorn Lomborg is hardly considered acceptable and has a really bad dye job (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Lomborg) and only published in the US by right’wingers using him as propaganda. Attention-getting he is. Hmmm, maybe a little too so?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Lomborg
“Why are so few of the AGW crowd pushing for nuclear power as an alternative to fossil fuels? Are they truly worried about the effects of CO2 released to the atmosphere, or are their concerns elsewhere? Why have environmentalists said that cheap, clean energy is their worst nightmare, when cheap, clean energy would make it possible to recycle everything?”
a good number are supporting nuc. power. But I think there are prescriptions against recycling nuclear fuel here in the US cause of the TERRORISM potential. w/o recycling, the costs of nuc. power are very prohibitive if engineering and containment are added on. And not subsidized as they are in France. It’s capitalists that are against Nuc as the Insurance costs are high and fear after 3 mile island cooled them on it. Finance charges for billions of upfront costs have to be ‘socialized’ as in France. I’d vote against it unless secure ‘recycling’ did happen…just leaving toxic debris around with a half life of thousands of years seems irresponsible.
Do you bother to pay attention to the rhetoric of the environmentalists? Of their supporters?
And what evidence is there of “unrestrained environmental devastation”?
On what evidence do you base these “thoughts”?
Wrong, wrong, wrong. If “capitalists” are against nuclear power, it’s because the regulatory environment made it prohibitively expensive.
prehistoric natural changes probably are dwarfed by the unnatural events brought about the huge increase in one species dominating the planet.
Probably is not much of a standard.
Really? You don’t say.
Someone should let them know.
that’s a good one bozo.
Try George W. Bush
seems WSJ doesn’t know that one either.
great try, Pablo. WSJ is a closed site. You have to be a subscriber. I don’t waste my money there. NRO is only the on-line version btw.
Try this one, bozo. Now pull the other one.
that’s a blog, not the paper… and whatever///
btw.. how does one “pull” anything here?
how does one “pull” anything here, btw?
This link, from right there on the first page of results, is to an opinion piece from the paper, not to a blog.
You’re wrong, again, as you nearlu always are. So listening to anything you have to say? Whatever.
Dave’s citing a Luddite?
Color me shocked.
yeah, BS. anything approaching reality is blocked there but they let Stephen Moore come thru. How consistent.
What a dickhd. Says the Rich are paying more taxes… that’s simple, They are getting all the income. Stephen couldn’t do mathmatice if he tried. He’s just a propagandist and lobbyist.
If the top 10 percent have 90 percent of the income (which is approximately true), they’re paying more taxes (like 60 percent or more not including social security taxes which fall mainly on the middle class Of Course the Rich are paying more taxes. Dummmy.
LOOK!!! A SHINY PENNY!!!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22Bill+McKibben%22%22Wall+Street+Journal%22&btnG=Search sure whatever
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120670656497671569.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news
complete article?
cat box litter. over half the sites are blocked
You got a point in there somewhere, dave? No, of course you don’t.
ha ha, that’s a fun exercise. I got results, so it must be so!
So doggie-style-dave, is this where I grunt another epithet?