Not really sure what to make of the political bent of this argument, so I’ll leave it to you all to tease out. From The Movie Blog, “Why Commercials Before Movies Is Worse Than Piracy”:
We’ve all figured that commercials playing in movie theaters was worth a lot of money… but did you realize its worth almost HALF A BILLION DOLLARS? The IMDB gives us this:
Revenue from in-theater advertising rose more than 15 percent to $456 million from $395 million a year ago… The Post quoted CAC Chairman Cliff Marks as expressing the belief that moviegoers are becoming “more accepting†of screen advertising. A recent Arbitron poll indicated that two-thirds of moviegoers “don’t mind†the ads.
Don’t mind the ads? DON’T MIND THE ADS???
First, I should mention here that I don’t mind the idea of movie theaters making money. It’s a business. They exist to make money, and if they can find new creative ways to generate money then I say more power to them. If they can come up with new ways to get my money while providing me with some new service or product that I’m willing to pay for… then good for them.
Second, there are types of advertising in movie theaters I “don’t mindâ€Â. For example, if the movie is supposed to start at 7pm and I get into my seat at 6:45pm, I really don’t mind commercials and ads being shown on the screen until showtime. I’m just sitting there anyway, it’s not taking away from my time since the show isn’t advertised to start for another 15 minutes… so really… showing ads in that vacuum is no skin off my nose, it gives me something to look at while I wait, and it generates some income for the theaters. GREAT! It’s a win/win for everyone.
But you don’t have to have a degree in advertising to know that the bulk of that $456 million in ad money doesn’t come from those “pre-show†commercials. Oh no no no no… most of that money comes from the ads I LOATHE. The commercials (not trailers… I like those) that they start playing at the time they advertised the MOVIE was supposed to start.
I’ve said this before, but it’s worth repeating.
– When you take my money for popcorn, at least I’m getting a tasty treat
– When you take my cash at the box office, I’m getting to come in to watch the movie
– When you take my time for commercials on TV, I’m getting a “free†TV show out of it
But what are we getting for our time with commercials in movie theaters? When the ad says “Movie starts at 7pm†and I’m in my seat (that I paid admission for) at 7pm, it’s time for you to start giving me what I paid you for… the movie. If you want to show me commercials, fine… give me the movie for free then.
The theater industry is pulling in RECORD amounts of income from those commercials, and unlike TV (where we get a free show), WE GET NOTHING IN RETURN FOR OUR TIME SITTING THERE WHEN THE MOVIE IS SUPPOSED TO START.
Movie theaters have in essence found the PERFECT advertising. Ads that take to audiences time, without giving them anything in return.
I don’t mind theaters making money off me when I get a product, service or entertainment in return… but commercials playing at 7pm when you told me the movie would be starting is doing nothing but STEALING my time. You are taking from me without giving anything in return. HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT FROM ONLINE MOVIE PIRACY!?!?
When we download a movie without giving the movie industry anything in return, they call that a crime (and it is). But when the industry takes our time (sometimes up to 15 or 20 minutes) without giving us anything for that time in return they call it “smart marketingâ€Â.
How about I start calling pirating movies “Smart Shoppingâ€Â. Will piracy be considered ok then?
Remember, YOU ARE GOING TO DIE SOME DAY. That means time has value, and when anything else in life takes your time, you get compensated in one form or another.
I don’t go to many movies, preferring instead to “own” the film by purchasing it on DVD (and forwarding past any ads or coming attractions that don’t interest me — the worst being those TRUTH ads that use emotional appeals to demonize tobacco in advance of a feature film that, if it’s done well, will show a bunch of exploding heads, and maybe some softcore lesbian sex tenously tied to the plot). So I’ll take the author’s word for it that theaters have taken to running ads as a rule at the scheduled start time for the feature film.
If this is indeed the case, one remedy, of course, is to show up late — the risk there being that you miss the coming attractions (which many people like), or that you are unable to find decent seating.
Or, you could show up on time, put a coat down on your seat, then head out to the lobby for some $8 popcorn or $5 Snowcaps — maybe even use the john so that you don’t piss somebody off forty minutes into the film when that giant Diet Coke you sucked down finally fills your bladder.
At the same time, though, I take the author’s point: you are being asked, essentially, to surrender your time — and pay for the privilege. Still, so long as you show a willingness to do so, why would theaters alter the revenue model?
Which is why it is equally plausible to consider that the price of attending the movie is mitigated by the price of the advertising, and that one of things you are purchasing when you purchase a ticket is 15 minutes of ads — the tradeoff being that you are paying less than you might for a ticket.
It would be interesting to see if a theater chain promising no “feature time” advertising could survive in a market where that option would require moviegoers to pay, say, and addition dollar premium for a ticket.
Is fifteen minutes of your time worth a buck really? Or would you just be willing to chalk up the advertising as part of the theater-going experience, and save that buck to supersize your nachos?
For what it’s worth, I don’t consider advertising at the scheduled start time akin to piracy. Because whereas piracy drives up the prices for all consumers, advertising — when looked at as a mitigating factor for ticket prices — actually can be looked at as lowering the prices for consumers.
But again, it would be nice to see an how an alternate model might perform.
(h/t Clicked)
Yeah, except they show the worst ads ever and ticket prices have *still* gone up. I’m in Oklahoma, and it’s about $6.50 for a matinee; just a couple of years ago, it was $4.50, and before that $3.00. (Okay, that’s a decade ago, but still.) And we didn’t have crappy ads playing, either, like some high school drama club drop out gathered all his friends in a basement and made an ad for their totally favorite ever soda.
Another thing to consider: there is a toothpaste ad (!) that shows people scattering around clothes, kissing passionately, and obviously about to engage in adult activity – and they played that at G and PG movies. The ads, at least in actualy video content, do not have to honor any ratings systems, which is another issue.
My priggish two cents…
eh, he’d have more of an argument about “costing time” if ticket prices were prorated for the length of a movie. it’s the same price whether the movie is 90 minutes or three hours.
What about the number of DVDs that don’t allow you to go directly to the menu with viewing the previews… The only way to avoid the ads in most DVDs is to FF
Not per-hour it isn’t. My time is valuable too.
I sometimes copy the DVD and in the process, rip out everything except the movie. That way, when I put the DVD in, it simply starts playing. You can use DVD Shrink for this.
It’s fantastic for Disney movies since 5 year olds are very, very impatient and even triple speed fast forward doesn’t get them to Cinderella’s castle fast enough.
“It’s fantastic for Disney movies since 5 year olds are very, very impatient and even triple speed fast forward doesn’t get them to Cinderella’s castle fast enough.”
Someone please store this passage away for future reference. It is the BEST euphemism for the Kostard’s collective psyche that I have ever read.
As for the adverts: I’m a market guy. If the market couldn’t bear, it would go away. Having said that, the quality of Hollywood product over the last ten years has certainly declined. Even if the studio suits mistake Sean Penn’s one-dimensional surliness as genius, George Clooney’s one-move eyebrow as talent, and Ben Stiller as funny.
I find all the unstaffed extra concession areas more annoying than the commercials. Why not make the damn restrooms bigger if you’re never going to staff the concession areas?
(I can’t get too upset about commercials, since I live in the hometown of AMC Theatres and know someone who works there who gives us a card every year that gets us in free.)
My wife is obsessively punctual. Me? Notsomuch.
Thirteen years into our relationship she still gets bent when we are walking into the theatre ten minutes late. (I never go to a movie until well after its initial release, so finding a decent seat is never a problem.)
Ans still we end up watching commercials.
“the worst being those TRUTH ads that use emotional appeals to demonize tobacco”
You have those in Colorado too? I honestly thought that was just a California Dept of Public Health program, or should I say corporate welfare for the advertising agencies on Willshire Boulevard. I think (not entirely in jest) that because they can’t advertise tobacco anymore, they asked for some kind of state government handout.
The minimum wage thinger has a very real impact in this sector also. I’m not sure how long it will be viable or at what price point the model breaks down, but already my feeling is that movie attendance is far far less recession-proof than it was once considered so the next downturn will be interesting.
I go to a fair number of movies — partially for my regular web gig — and the ones I frequent most tell you upfront that the movie starts 10-15 minutes after the posted time. I’m pretty sure they did that to avoid the Nanny City from passiing an ordinance requiring said disclaimer, but there it is. It’s a tradeoff for how good a seat you want.
In my city, all theaters except art houses show commercials. I don’t mind so much with the stadium seating theaters because I figure I’m getting something more for the same ticket price–a more comfortbale seat with a clear view of the screen. At regular theaters it does bug me that they start the movie late to show commercials. A commercial-free experience is part of what I pay for when I buy a ticket and since they don’t tell you how long the commercials are going to run for, you can’t safely show up late to avoid them.
That said, I’m more bothered by the fact that all movies are the same price–whether Weekend at Bernie’s or Schindler’s List, whether costing 20 million to make or 200 million. I think we’d have better quality control if movies were priced they way virtually everything else is.
Yes, that kind of advertising is quite annoying. But the thing about the market bearing it – it might for awhile, and certainly you could make people sit through 30 minutes of ad for the biggest blockbuster (if only you knew which movie it would be.) But in general, pissing off the customer for extra bucks makes him think you’re a parasitic business, or a shyster maybe. A certain number will tolerate it because they have the patience to see what they came for, but that population is not going to be big enough to support the giant actor salaries and massive corporate structures.
I see very few movies in the theatres anymore, mostly because theatres are kind of depressing anymore. I’ll only do it with friends as an outing; but then again, in that case I’ll go to Dave & Buster’s and spend ridiculous sums of money to play silly arcade games.
But that means, I only do it as a social thing (and then, not so much even.) That was what kept game arcades alive back in the day. With the advent of video games there were two distinct problems – 1. Less time spent with friends in the flesh, and 2. Less biz for the arcades. Which for me meant I could never find a decent arcade when I wanted one.
Seems like the movie theatre biz right now is in recession anyway. Partly because, I suppose, it was a social thing to begin with.
But it’s just desserts – those who promoted ‘counter’ culture of slackened morality whilst greasing their palms with as much capital as they could should not have any surprises here. We pay for a service; when you stop providing that service, we stop paying. You can’t get something for nothing (most of the time.)
Due to inflated ticket prices, lack of ushers to keep order in the house, commercials before the feature, the quick availability of DVDs and the outstanding quality and affordability of home theater systems, and the lack of civilized behavior on the part of about 20% of my countrymen, my moviegoing has waned to about 1 visit per year.
The market works.
whereas piracy drives up the prices for all consumers
That suggests that decreasing demand has upward price pressure, and that doesn’t feel right. Maybe this is one of those things I am ill-quipped to really grasp though.
*equipped*
I am too tired and grumpy I think to really be commenting today. It was a long week I thought.
I definitely don’t think you’re ill-quipped, hf.
Thanks, D. Mostly I feel bad about the fat girl crack earlier. What an awful thing to say.
those Truth ads are so douchey they make me want to smoke. the tobacco companies knew what they were doing: “sure, we’ll fund antismoking ads, but let’s not use Madison Ave. those guys know how to sell ideas. let’s use these hipster activists.”
Yes. I don’t like it that there’s a multi-million dollar ad spend designed to convince people I am stupid and icky.
I believe that there was a lawsuit over just this issue – a “public interest group” had sued a big movie chain for posting start times that neglected to include an average of 15 minutes of commercials, not to mention another 5 minutes of previews. When the suit was settled, the theatre chain posted the actual starting times of each movie that was being shown that evening – those who wished to get there earlier and watch commercials were free to do so, but on their own volition.
I’m not sure how the issue has come up again, since it appeared to have been settled more than a decade earlier.
My time and thoughts are my own. Before a movie, I could perhaps work out what I needed to buy at the store, or have a nice conversation with my date. Maybe a pleasant daydream or just improve the movie by anticipating it. One time, I solved a math problem that had me stumped before a show.
Of course, I can do this now, but I have to do it standing in the lobby holding a bag of popcorn and a drink waiting for the show to start and hoping I can find a seat. As the Movie blog says, there’s a limited by the amount of time I have on this earth and forcing me to listen to something I’m not being compensated for is theft. I would think that only a certified cretin, who had no reason to value their own thoughts wouldn’t understand this. Unfortunately, sheeplike acceptance of the practice is the nearly universal attitude.
In Heinlein’s book “The Puppet Masters”, alien parasites attached themselves to humans and took over their thought processes. When a Master was separated from his human “mount” the human tended to regret once again having to think for himself. I used to think this was hyperbole, but the large number of folks who prefer sitting listening to commercials to keeping their own company has convinced me it was not.
Like myself, I’m pretty sure a fair number of commenters here have worked at a movie theater in their younger days, so I feel I can speak with some authority on the subject.
Back in college when I worked at my particular theater (Jeff, you’d know this one, it’s the Greenwood Village Regal theater off Arapahoe and I-25) 11-12 years ago, we were told the reason concessions were so expensive was because that was the theater’s main source of revenue–about 80-90% of the ticket revenue goes to the studios. At the time, an adult ticket was about $5.00, if I remember right, and the large popcorn and coke was $7.00. So the pressure was really put on us to upsell and suggestive sell sizes and products to make per cap goals, because that paid everyone’s salary. Granted, at the time the prices seemed like quite a bit, but still, you could take a date and still pay under $20 to see Mel Gibson speak with a really bad Scottish accent.
Nowadays, you pay $20 before you even get to the concession stand, if you take a date, and the concessions cost about 2/3 more than they did before. Who in their right mind wants to pay that much money when the chances are pretty good that the movie is going to be a shit-fest? the theaters have had to make up for their decline in revenue from concessions by putting a bunch of commercials. Ironically, this has made the quality of the movie-going experience even worse.
A similar situation is happening in professional football, where the game is largely there to provide placeholding segements between commericals. I love my Denver Broncos, even when they are playing like garbage as they are this year, but I can’t even watch marquee games like the Cowboys/Pats matchup because of the incessant commercials. I don’t think the theaters even realize what a downward spiral they are creating, especially when it’s so easy to find the films online, or to wait just four months to get it on DVD.
Feets, that’s why economics is not a science in the same way physics is a science, the theories tend to break down and don’t interrelate freely.
Piracy drives up prices because it is effectively a type of free rider situation. Since the pirates do not contribute to the cost of production a greater share ends up falling on the paying customers than would if all viewers actually contributed.
However, some actually argue the situation is not so cut and dry.
http://thepiratesdilemma.com/the-tao-of-pirates/10-industries-being-transformed-by-piracy-for-the-better
Nice article – and I think the idea that watching a movie on dvd or pc is a fundamentally different experience than going to the theater is not really encompassed by the piracy/movie price idea. I think viewing a pirated movie and adding to favorable/unfavorable word of mouth is a mitigating factor as well inasmuch as that sort of feedback loop is becoming fairly integral to both ancillary (downstream) success and movie development.
Harry Potter has brand equity even among those who have never read a book or seen a film. Distributors don’t benefit from this, but the copyright holders most certainly do. #12 is on the right track… however, what he’s looking for is not so much a scalable price but a scalable studio/exhibitor split. Franchise films with strong merchandising potential, spin-off possibilities, and other ancillaries would wisely I think accept a reduction in their theater rental proceeds in the interests of burnishing that experience.
Why? The theatre venue is a special case in which the offered product is actually in a strikingly uncompetitive environment, having at most 3 or 4 new releases to contend with on a particular weekend, and this is a situation that fosters high awareness of available product. That’s the goose that they really should be nice to and not mistreat and stuff.
Absent ads, the ticket price would be higher; that’s the compensation. Yet this thread has its share of complaints about current ticket prices.
Quite the contrary — the theaters are painfully aware of it, which is why they’re on board with the anti-piracy ads and fighting with Hollywood over the ever-shortening “window” for DVD releases. However, being aware of these issues and having any power to do something about them are two different things.
And for new folks, I have no connection to the movie biz (outside of a tenuous connection to a screenwriter whose stuff you would recognize) or the theater biz. I’m just sayin’ the theater biz does not have many good choices in the current environment.
Yet Hollywood does the exact opposite — the franchise blockbusters generally demand virtually all proceeds from the first couple of weeks, because they can.
It really does depend on what the prospective audience considers to be the actual product.
The word-of-mouth factor would seem to count most when the medium is of lesser significance than other aspects of the product, e.g. an otherwise ho hum mountaineering tragi-drama becomes something else entirely when available in an IMAX type format. In such cases people are less concerned that the characters aren’t well fleshed out, or that the dialogue comes off as stilted when the top of the world view is as close as you will ever get to being there.
So long as the studios continue to develop product with an ultimate eye towards the small screen then piracy and other end-arounds taking business away from theatres will be all but inevitable.
the worst being those TRUTH ads that use emotional appeals to demonize tobacco
I honestly suspect those of actually being put out by tobacco companies. Think about it, how can anyone claim they didn’t know tobacco would kill them if the world is flooded with this stuff? Tough to sue.
Piracy isn’t really the problem, its lousy customer service and a crappy product that people aren’t willing to pay the prices demanded for. Piracy as high cost is putting the cart before the horse, same thing with the music industry.
I can count on one hand the movies I’ve seen in a theater in the last twelve years. There was Twister, Master and Commander, Serenity, and Shrek which we had free tickets for, and the Lord of the Rings trilogy, which I’m not sure I saw all three in a theater.
And yes, sometimes I do count my thumb twice. Why do you ask?
I honestly suspect those of actually being put out by tobacco companies.
They are. Bootlegger-baptist deal, via the gubmint.
The oft-bemoaned douchiness of those ads is the fault of a thankfully no-longer-near acquaintance — and no, he’s not smart enough to have plotted a complex reverse-douche make-you-smoke deal (but he certainly thinks he is). May have been used for one — maybe. But he believes it all, just like that, and set to modeling the nosmokenjugend accordingly.
Got him from mere trustafarian rich to straight-up Democrat rich, too.
The cunt.
A- Anti tobacco ads make me want to smoke like you wouldn’t believe. Make me want to go around kicking the “dead” during die-ins to make sure none of them were accidentally left alive, too. Fuckers.
b- “Absent ads, the ticket price would be higher; that’s the compensation. Yet this thread has its share of complaints about current ticket prices.”
That’ pretty much my thinking, too. Ads subsidize (I hate to say this) low ticket prices, so they don’t bug me. I just make loud, inappropriate comments during the bits that annoy me the most.
iii- If memory serves (and I might be wrong since I don’t have time to look up the facts–I’m still at work and hiding my blog obsession right now), Hollywood takes the lions share of the ticket cost during the first three or four weeks of a movie’s run. After that (or after some point that I am not remembering correctly), the calculus shifts more towards the movie theater. Movies that stick around a long time are good for theaters. Hollywood, I believe, prefers big launches that get the money back as quick as possible and then leave theaters open for the next big thing.
Some might consider big launches for shitty movies that don’t have staying power but have the marketing energy to get us to the theaters to be Hollywood’s way of achieving their goal. Just sayin’.
4- I’ve been looking into using movie advertising as a way to get word out of a new show that my company is putting on in Pittsburgh. Newspaper readership is down, internet advertising is unreliable, radio listenership is down, billboards are still decent but pretty expensive, direct mail is untargeted and pricey, and tv advertising is both expensive and wildly fragmented. For a general interest show, what is the best way to introduce people to that new show? (The answer is probably “with more money than you’ve got,” by the way.)
Theater ads, targeted by neighborhoods, seems like a decent call to me. What I’m finding–aside from the fact that it’s going to be expensive–is that there are a number of companies that handle the ad placement for theaters. That means that the revenue isn’t going directly to the theaters; it’s filtering through another organization before it gets into those particular pockets. What I would like to know is what of that half billion is actually going to the theaters?
Lastly- Trailers are ads, damnit. I like them, too, but they exist only to get me to buy something.
I believe that there was a lawsuit over just this issue
Michigan tried to pass just such a law in (I think) 2004. Stupid.
It’s a movie. It’s a time out, an optional activity. If I don’t have an extra 15 minutes to sit through some ads, I probably don’t have time for a movie. I zone out, think my own thoughts, chomp my popcorn, let the owners make their money. Why let it bug?
I sat through 2 Pokemon movies, I can certainly sit through a few ads.
If I can get one of those ginormous buckets or even like 2 of those stupid bags and pretend one is for the person I’m there with I can pretty much sit through anything until the popcorn runs out. When I was little my parents would give us season passes to the movies so we could go as much as we wanted so after school me and whoever would go to an afternoon movie that seemed likely to be relatively deserted and sit in the back and eat popcorn for awhile. I remember this new neighbor moved in while I was like a sophomore and I started giving her a ride to school and we saw this one like every weekday of its run cause the theater was so empty and we could talk.
There was one of those TRUTH ads that had them driving around an upscale neighborhood in a loudspeaker van, berating the “tobacco growers”.
I’ve honestly never met a tobacco grower who lived in such a neighborhood.
Heckle the ads.
Catch up with the people you’re there with.
You know, a lot of people are saying the ads subsidize the ticket prices. Maybe. In the last fifteen years or so ticket prices have doubled, food is up maybe 50%-75%. So this is way more than inflation.
The service is no better than it ever was, probably worse. The theaters and bathrooms are no cleaner.
And the filmmakers have an international audience for films like they never did in the past. Plus an extra revenue stream from DVDs. So my question is… where’s all that money going?
…where’s all that money going?
Overpaid movie stars, directors, and special effects gurus.
There is insurance involved also that is not insignificant – is one of the bigger reasons independent theaters have sold out.
If it makes you feel better, Eric, there are often ads in those international movie theaters as well.
As for service being no better, I don’t know. Stadium seating and reclining chairs with drinkholders is a huge improvement, imho.
I have been away from mostly any theater until earlier last year. I have been taking the family minus the wife/student to movies on Saturday afternoon’s and have not really seen the issue presented here. Mostly what I have seen after the lights go down is trailers. Did I get screwed out of 3 minutes for commercials? I guess it is possible, but my foursome and the other 18 moviegoers really seemed not to have noticed. I am not sure if I should be outraged or not, so I will not.
…and contributions to Democrat politicians.