Well, according to Michael Moore — following on the heels of such foreign policy and engineering luminaries as Rosie O’Donnell, Charlie Sheen, and Howard Dean — it might have been.
And at the very least, additional (read: non-Republican-tainted) inquiries need be conducted to get to the bottom of this troubling mystery.
Of course, in Moore’s defense (and in his favor), an administration that so pointedly ignores a national health care crisis has plenty of time to orchestrate the bombing of its own buildings, the murder of its own civilians, and the near-catastrophic collapse of its economy — all so it can eventually go into Iraq and…field accusations that it lied us into a quagmire.
Hardly the biggest upside for so diabolical a plan, but hey — nobody ever said the Bushies were smart, just, you know, evil.
Still, there’s no denying that you won’t find Cuban dictators orchestrating staged terror attacks on his own populace.
So make of that what you will…
(h/t Joe)
After watching the video I think your post is deceptive. Moore says he heard things happen and would like to see another investigation. Personally, I think he’s bananas, but then again, I often think he does more harm than good to his cause by being such a polemic. He’s very analogous to Ann Coulter.With that said, your post implies he’s freakin’ Charlie Sheen and hanging with the entire nutball crowd. All he said was that he wants more info and he wants to see the video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon. Personally, again, I think he’s wrong, but your post is a dis-service to your typical fairness.
Well, I guess staged trials and executions don’t count because the number of deaths is so small.
But real communists like Uncle Joe Stalin. He knew how to throw a holocausthttp://www.discussanything.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-16807.html …
Unless the transcript on the linked page is inaccurate, he’s agreeing with the interviewer that 9/11 was an inside job. That puts him squarely in the "nutty as a squirrel’s shit" camp if you ask me.
After watching the video I think your post is deceptive.
What’s deceptive about it?
Oliver Willis’ idol, Michael Moore, says that it might have been an inside job, and that the deeply troubling questions demand further investigation, and somehow, Jeff spelling that out is deceptive ? Good God, you are dense.
Michael Moore is more concerned about lining his pockets with moonbat money, and eating deep fried Snickers bars than he is with uncovering any grand truths, fixing the healthcare system, etc …
I was going to say that MM is at Rosie’s level of nuttiness, but then I realized that he was at that summit long before Rosie began her ascent. He forged the trail for her, a very very very wide trail.
"Nutty as a squirrel’s shit"
I always thought that saying was nuttier than a squirrel’s cornhole.
Right – and when he thanks the Truthies for all that they are doing, that is an impartial waving off of the madness?
It’s on YouTube, I believe.
Then there are the thousands of eye-witnesses. And the plane parts taken out of the building. And the parts of the passengers taken out of the building.
If that’s “all” he said, it’s still enough to get him flagged as a nutjob.
Michael Moore believes what most of the nation (including most of the Republican base), that something’s rotten in Denmark.
By labelling him a conspiracy nut, you further distance the neocons from the rest of the true Republican roots.
Because every security camera was pointed at exactly the same spot, which coincidentally was the approach path of the airplane.
He is a videographer. He has to know that the frame rate of a fixed security camera is not going to catch much of a plane going 400 mph through its field of view. A couple of frames is the best you can hope for. He is a dishonest sack of shit for even asking that question.
I might’ve shot Kennedy. I could have been on the grassy knoll instead of in eighth grade for all you can prove.
What is with these fruitcakes? This government can’t keep a secret.
The ironic part about this is that folks like timmah and MM gleefully make fun of President Bush being stupid, and at the same time, are able to ignore the cognitive dissonance when they argue that Bush tricked them into supporting the war, or that a stupid person would be able to mastermind something like their nutjob theories.
Bullshit.
He’s a conspiracy nut. He’s a conspiracy nut. He’s a fucking conspiracy nut. If that’s “distancing” me from the “rest of the true Republican roots” then thank God! I have no desire to be associated with the kind of people who buy into that shit.
WTF is it with people and this crap?!
No, what’s really ironic is that they’ll make fun of Creationists and accuse people of being “anti-science” and then buy into this kind of utter crap. The “theories” of the Truthers take longer, more bizarre leaps of faith to believe than the Virgin Birth.
It makes me seriously worried about the future of our country if people are still questioning whether or not it was a fucking plane that hit the Pentagon.
I think the last few barrells of deep fried cookie dough have clogged up the remaining brain cells in Moores head. Maybe they have something to treat that in the socialist paradise that is the Cuban healthcare system?
I’m beginning to really really really really hate this farking guy.
Ah, yes — Michael Moore, Mainstream Republican! Didn’t he give the keynote speech at the last convention?
You haven’t seen the non-stop-action photos because straight video leaves you with nothing but a grey streak and an explosion. Presumably, if he saw it, he would claim it was a Tomahawk missile.
Guys like Moore don’t realize just how many effin’ eyewitnesses there were to various aspects of the Pentagon crash, or that the firefighters actually saw the aircraft in the building. The websites I have seen that the deniers set up include some pretty incredible claims – my favorite is the claim that people on the site smelled "cordite." It’s bullshit – the whole building smelled like burning jet fuel, then and for weeks afterwards. Cordite is an obsolete term for a kind of artillery propellant that hasn’t been manufactured for decades; it’s something some amateur historian who knew nothing about explosives used to enhance his fraudulent story.
I can’t even make sense of continuum’s comment.
Michael Moore believes what most of the nation (including most of the Republican base), that something’s rotten in Denmark.
By labelling him a conspiracy nut, you further distance the neocons from the rest of the true Republican roots.
He/she is not suggesting that any portion of the Republican base believes in the truther bullshit? And, how are the neocons distanced from the Republican base by the truther movement?
Michael Moore is nothing more than a propagandist. Not a videographer, not a documentarian, not a social policy gadfly.
Propagandist.
He will bend any truth, twist any fact, ignore any evidence as long as he can navigate to the forgone conclusion. Sicko is a classic example of his modus operandi. start with the premise that "health care sucks in this country, it discriminates against the l;ittle people." Seek out those examples that support his conclusion, mashing statistics and waving away anything that would counter the view. Receive the accolades of the koolaide drinkers, drunk on The Narrative.tm Goebbels would be proud.
He’s too smart to believe in conspiracy theories. This whole interview is designed to punch up the leftie base that will make him another $100 million dollars and insure that his melded vision of the world is given legitimacy and favor.
Man, the use that Stalin would have had for Moore’s particular genius.
8.: Huh?
Back on topic, it’s simply astounding that the conspiracy nuts believe that Bush could somehow pull this off without what would have to have been a legion of co-conspirators.
And that every one of them could keep a secret.
Moore’s sole raison de etre is to part credulous fools from their money. Impressively, their number of them is legion, including damn near every Dem in Congress.
Keep on gainsaying the questions of your own Republican base.
You mock their doubts from the false security of your ever shrinking neocon thinktank circle.
Keep on gainsaying the questions of your own Republican base.
You mock their doubts from the false security of your ever shrinking neocon thinktank circle.
Oh, I get it. Continuum is a joke. Ha ha ha … you almost had me there.
Incoherent babble is clearly going to make us see the error of our ways.
Grok the neocon conspiracy who discombobulated our special.
Did Moore include the obesity problem and how it affects insurance rates?
Look, I like to stand in front of the open fridge and spread Betty Crocker frosting on ham slices and much as the next guy, but methinks Mike keeps a cake froster in a side holster at all times.
His fumunda cheese could fill an 18 egg omelette.
…I’m here all week.
Witheld you’re not, Continuum.
"Keep on gainsaying the questions of your own Republican base. "
I don’t think the "republican base" is lining up behind the loose change crowd, much to your disappointment.
"You mock their doubts from the false security of your ever shrinking neocon thinktank circle."
What is this, the Hounds Of Baskerville?
Look stupid- ANYONE STUPID ENOUGH to believe that something OTHER THAN A FUCKING PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON does not deserve to be taken seriously. If some of them are republican, then I’ll ignore them too. But you are seriously off if you think that there are that many republicans who believe 9/11 "needs to have more questions asked".
Interesting to watch the neocons in total melt down.
They are now amazed that even on "Republican-safe blog sites" their own folks are doubting their pronouncements from on high.
Woe unto thee who disagree with THEIR party line . . . . for truly shall you be both mocked and derided.
WTF are you talking about? "Pronouncements from on high?"
Pronounce not what for Republican naysay. Thou shalt not gainsay who is mocked and derided.
And, where are these Republican-safe blogs? I think my invite must have gotten lost in the inter-tubes.
They are now amazed that even on "Republican-safe blog sites" their own folks are doubting their pronouncements from on high.
Care to link to any of these supposed "Republican-safe blog sites"?
And who says "blog sites" anymore? Jesus you’re retarded.
Let’s take the mask off continuum- where is your site, and how bad is the traffic level?
If you tell me I promise that you truly shall be both mocked and derided.
Clearly, Continuum has the standing to speak for all Republicans, and neo-cons.
Jeff – How in the world do you manage to attract these folks ?
When you can’t argue the facts, call folks names.
Worked in the past, but ain’t workin’ anymore.
"Back on topic, it’s simply astounding that the conspiracy nuts believe that Bush could somehow pull this off without what would have to have been a legion of co-conspirators. And that every one of them could keep a secret."
Not only that, but did it all in a little under nine months.
Ah, the “pronouncements from on high” that consisted of thousands of people seeing a plane fly into the Pentagon.
The “pronouncements from on high” that consist of structural engineers carefully studying and modeling the WTC collapse and determining it was the result of the fires, and NOT demolitions.
Which, BTW, Moore(on) claims:
I suspect that what Moore had described to him is the sound of the floors pancaking into one another. Hell, failing structural members would likely sound like an explosion anyway.
But Moore’s bought into it. And he’s blaming un-named firefighters for his delusions.
Sorry Continuum, but an unofficial PW motto is, If you can’t argue with reason, because the person is talking gobbledygook, resort to name calling.
Continuum,
What facts did you bring with you? They are mysteriously absent. Where are these "republican-safe blog sites" to which you refer?
I call you names because it’s fun. Jackass.
"When you can’t argue the facts, call folks names.Worked in the past, but ain’t workin’ anymore."
Please show us the "facts" that you have presented, preferably not written in gibberish.
"After watching the video I think your post is deceptive."
brought to you by timmah
This has to rank in your Top 10 list of biggest waste of pixels and/or grey matter. Apparently, watching the video and comprehending what you heard and saw are completely separate matters for you.
"Woe unto thee who disagree with THEIR party line . . . . for truly shall you be both mocked and derided. "
As long as we’re getting all Old Testament here, it helps me understand this crap when I envision Continuum as…the jawbone of an ass.
Continuum is likely a Ron Paul groupie.
THE STREETS SHALL FLOW WITH THE BLOOD OF THE NON-BELIEVERS !!!!
The 9/11 attacks were an inside job – Al Qaeda kept tight operational security on that operation and only those inside that organization were privy to it.
(Of course Al Qaeda is a wholly owned joint subsidiary of Halliburton and Blackwater, both of which are owned by the Illumanati, which through many cut outs, is merely one of J.P. Morgan’s many holdings, Mr. Morgan’s head-in-a-jar still directing the operations.)
Gosh, conspiracy theorizing is fun!
Jawbone of an ass.
I’ll take that compliment.
You should really know your bible before you quote it. (Like I said the neocons are out of touch with the base of their party.)
The Lord gave Samson the jaw-bone of an ass as a weapon for the great slaughter of the Philistines (Judg. 15.15), in which he slew a thousand men.
I guess you can determine who I think the modern day Philistines are.
As far as Charlie Sheen goes, I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he was batshit crazy, when he was bedding Denise Richards, and still could not be faithful.
And Samson gained his strength…. from his hair! My God! How could I have been so blind! It is all so clear to me now! I see the light, praise Jesus, I see the light!
Tman: I clicked your Snopes link, and it redirected here: http://67.19.222.106/club21.gif. Conspiracy? But, of course!
Cripes, Jeff: No preview to be my friend, so I can’t tell when my hyperlinks are messed up. And would someone tell me how to invoke a hard return and/or paragraph break? Hitting Enter (in Firefox) doesn’t seem to do the trick.
Aggressively ignorant moonbattery, proudly displayed. Bravo!
Are you losing the latest version of Firefox?
All I do is hit return.
Gonna see if I can enable html in the comments, though. Like I said, we’re still working out all the bugs, which we wouldn’t have found were it not for your sufferings.
Thank you, my little Guinea pigs.
Philistine.
I’ll take that as a compliment.
You should maybe read the Bible a tad more before you go claiming I was quoting from it.
And thou shalt anoint thyself as the base of the party, huh?
And unto the internets, a freaky troll is born. What has thou but the rending of thy garments and lamentations?
On the continuum of brainpower, there is only a minute difference between Continuum and a room full of Oliver Willis, Michael Moore, and the Kos Kiddies.
Typical neocon backpedal.
When called to task on your own words "As long as we’re getting all Old Testament here", you deny that is what you meant.
Thanks for proving the point.
I’m using Firefox 2.0.0.4, and I think that’s the latest. I hit two hard returns before typing this sentence. Did it work?
Here is a whole pile of co-conspirators, readily spouting the Chimpy Katrinaburton line:
"On a Metro train to National Airport, Allen Cleveland looked out the window to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. ‘I thought, "There’s no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,"’ he said. Before he could process that thought, he saw ‘a huge mushroom cloud. The lady next to me was in absolute hysterics.’" – "Our Plane Is Being Hijacked." Washington Post, 12 Sep 2001
"I was supposed to have been going to the Pentagon Tuesday morning at about 11:00am (EDT) and was getting ready, and thank goodness I wasn’t going to be going until later. It was so shocking, I was listening to the news on what had happened in New York, and just happened to look out the window because I heard a low flying plane and then I saw it hit the Pentagon. It happened so fast… it was in the air one moment and in the building the next…" – "U.S. Under Attack: Your Eyewitness Accounts." BBC News, 14 Sep 2001
"As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead. … Seconds before the Pentagon came into view a huge black cloud of smoke rose above the road ahead. I came around the bend and there was the Pentagon billowing smoke, flames and debris, blackened on one side and with a gaping hole where the airplane had hit it." – "Eyewitness at the Pentagon." Human Events, 17 Sep 2001
"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon’s south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he’d lose his head to its right engine." – "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002
"USAToday.com Editor Joel Sucherman saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. It was highly unusual. The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. ‘My first thought was he’s not going to make it across the river to [Reagan] National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction,’ Sucherman said. ‘It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angleâ€â€almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course.’" – "Journalist Witnesses Pentagon Crash." eWeek.com, 13 Sep 2001
"’I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings, went right there and slammed into the Pentagon,’ eyewitness Mike Walter said of the plane that hit the military complex. ‘Huge explosion, great ball of fire, smoke started billowing out, and then it was just chaos on the highway as people either tried to move around the traffic and go down either forward or backwards,’ he said." – "Witnesses and Leaders on Terrorist Attacks." CNN, 11 Sep 2001
"'(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target,’ said Fred Gaskins, who was driving to his job as a national editor at USA Today near the Pentagon when the plane passed about 150 feet overhead. ‘It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint that anything was wrong.’" – "Bush Vows Retaliation for ‘Evil Acts’." USA Today, 11 Sep 2001
"’I saw the tail of a large airliner. … It plowed right into the Pentagon," said an Associated Press Radio reporter who witnessed the crash. ‘There is billowing black smoke.’" – "America’s Morning of Terror." ChannelOne.com, 2001
"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. ‘It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,’ Mr Campo said. ‘I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.’" – "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001
"A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "’It added power on its way in,’ he said. ‘The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball.’" – "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts." The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001
"Traffic is normally slow right around the Pentagon as the road winds and we line up to cross the 14th Street bridge heading into the District of Columbia. I don’t know what made me look up, but I did and I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating. My first thought was just ‘No, no, no, no,’ because it was obvious the plane was not heading to nearby Reagan National Airport. It was going to crash." – "September 11 Remembered." University Week, 4 Oct 2001
"Father Stephen McGraw was driving to a graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept. 11, when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. ‘I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars.’ McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. ‘The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building,’ he said. ‘My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression,’ he said. ‘There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.’" – "Pentagon Crash Eyewitness Comforted Victims." MDW News Service, 28 Sep 2001
Nope. This time, I hit Ctrl+Enter twice. Results? Yes, Jeff, Give Me Back My HTML. At least then I could screw up my hyperlinks the old-fashioned way.
Gah…line spacing on this sucks
Typical neocon backpedal.
When called to task on your own words “As long as we’re getting all Old Testament here”, you deny that is what you meant.
Thanks for proving the point
She’s denying that she compared you to Samson, or to a weapon for fighting the Philistines. She was simply calling you an ass.
It has nothing to with politics, tim and etc., but a basic understanding of physics. Something that you should have had in high school.
Hey Continuum,
Why won’t you link anything? Where are your facts? Why do you keep obscuring the fact that you haven’t presented even the tiniest of evidence that you should be taken seriously? You haven’t made a stand on anything other than your own self righteousness. You’re not the first and probably won’t be the last to come here and spout such bullshit without backing it up, so consider yourself among some pretty pathetic company.
Dicentra,
Apparently the link became hot linked, and that must be the image you get if you link it. Maybe. If you go to the snopes page on the pentagon crash they have a picture of some pieces of the airplane on the ground next to the pentgaon.
You know, the airplane that several people watched with their own eyes bank, roll and crash in to the lawn and eventually the Pentagon itself, and testified as such.
Kind of a dense one, aren’t you, continuum.
Maybe you could stick to the point of the thread? Are you claiming that 9-11 was an inside job or not? So far, you really haven’t made much of a point here besides implying "neocons" as a perjorative. You wouldn’t be the first to show up here and do so. You are familiar with etymology of the word, yes?
"She’s denying that she compared you to Samson, or to a weapon for fighting the Philistines. She was simply calling you an ass."
You’re kidding right?
I guess I was just gobbleygoocked cornfussed when you neocons made reference to the Old Testament and the "jawbone of an ass."
Like I said, neocons speak from ignorance and then when called on your ignorance you gainsay your own writings.
Typical, yet still amazing.
Have I mentioned that I don’t think I like WordPiss?
BJ hit it on the head. Moore does not actually believe any of the conspiracy stuff. He’s just a cheap lying sack of crap who will happily tell the nutjobs what they want to hear to make another million or two. That’s been his modus operandi all along. All you need to know about this guy is that he made his name with a documentary about how the CEO of GM would not talk to him … despite the fact that he had an interview of him on film the whole time. Pure liar.
So what about all of those eye witnesses at the Pentagon, Continuum? All Bush/Cheney lackeys?
Not surprising that Continuum gets into the weeds of the jawbone of an ass reference (and to what he was being compared ), instead of any of the other issues in this thread.
"
You mock their doubts from the false security of your ever shrinking neocon thinktank circle."Who taught Rachter to post?
Rob, I like this Moore quote, if only for its sheer pointlessness:
Well, of course there is. There is always more to the story than gets told. We can throw in all sorts of pointless details, like who manufactured the fire truck that first arrived on the scene. But there is nothing in "the story" that contradicts what happened: Muslim terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into skyscrapers.What’s puzzling is this need for some morons to deny the obvious, and construct some elaborate theory of how it was Bush, in the study, with the candlestick hand-delivered by Rove. I get why the Islamozoids do it: makes them feel less like mass-murderers and keep that sense of aggrieved entitlement. I get why Moore does it: money to buy more quadruple-cheesburgers, extra-large pants, and (eventually) heart-bypass surgery. But as to the various hard-left nutballs, Ron Paul groupies, and the like — beats me. Not that I care.
Jawbone of an ass is actually fitting, as continuum as done nothing more than bray the same lines with every comment he/she/it makes.
"Not surprising that Continuum gets into the weeds of the jawbone of an ass reference (and to what he was being compared ), instead of any of the other issues in this thread."
Typical for a neocon to miss the point.
Referenced something which he didn’t really know. Thought that a "jawbone of an ass" would be an insult. When directed to the actual "by the Bible" passages, denyed that was what he meant. Notwithstanding his reference to the "Old Testament".
Point was that he was attemting an insult.
Point was that when called upon his lack of knowledge, he uses the Alberto defence.
Too bad neocons can’t plead the 5th on the blogs, too.
Continuum,
Let’s set aside the Old Testament references and "thou arts" for the moment, and concentrate on the question at hand.
I’d appreciate it if you would provide the community with your evidence that 9/11 was an inside job. I’ll state from the outset that I’m not a believer in these conspiracy theories. So far, I find the Commission and Popular Mechanics to be far more persuasive than Rosie and the Truthers. But that doesn’t mean I’m blind to the possibilities. Please, persuade me.
While you’re at it, please link to the "pronouncements from on high" that you reference above. Along with this link, I’d like to know why you think that our disagreement with said pronouncements (whatever they may be) are such a bad thing, given that this group disagrees with the powers on high (whoever they may be) on a number of issues with greater bearing on our lives.
Finally, I would like to see evidence of mainstream Republicans who buy into the 9/11 conspiracy theories to such an extent that doubt or mockery of these theories would cause them to disassociate themselves from the doubters.
Thank you in advance for your prompt attention.
Which is the more improbable conspiracy.
Case 1: A group of 19 Saudis, with minimal training on small civilian propeller aircraft, coordinate a 4-fold attack (in both time, and location), during the exact middle of a defence practice drill (which envinsioned flying planes into buildings), and manage to fly jet planes and actually hit what their aiming for. All coordinated by a man on a cell phone half way cross the world. And, contrary to commonsense, the secret service allows the President to stay at an unprotected school even after the service realizes that some kind of coordinated, yet still not fully known, attack upon the US is under way. There are lots of questions which beg credulity.
or
Case 2. Same facts as above, but with certain government officials paving the way and ensuring that no USAF plane shoots down the planes, and that warning from FBI agents in both Minneapolis and California offices are delayed and denyed.
Re: Post #70 – Case #1 is far more probable
Now answer my question, fuck-nozzle.
RE post #71.
See post #32.
Jeffersonian, he never will answer your questions.
Now those German officers, who just so happened to be at a map table session when the Allies invaded Normandy, wargaming exactly what should be done during an invasion of Normandy? That was a plot by Halliburton.
(The last two sentences were me kidding.)
It is nice to have a Truther in our midst. I am interested to find out what makes them take such spectacular leaps of logic and faith, in order to reach their sensational conclusions.
Continuum – Though I suspect that you will continue to ignore the questions posed you, I would be interested in your pure speculations as to the motives of an inside job.
I’d like Continuum to concentrate on this point of Squid’s:
Because he’s already showed his moonbat card with comment #70.
Yay! The truth comes out!
A group of 19 Saudis, with minimal training on small civilian propeller aircraft,
No stupid, they trained on flight simulators using the aircraft they eventually crashed.
Continuum, it’s a pleasure that you finally took the mask off.
coordinate a 4-fold attack (in both time, and location),
Stupid, they took flights that were flying at the same time. Whoopdee doo.
during the exact middle of a defence practice drill (which envinsioned flying planes into buildings),
Actually, the Pentagon drill you’re referring to was the week before. You don’t even know the details of your own conspiracy. Boy are you stupid.
manage to fly jet planes and actually hit what their aiming for.
Wow, they hit the two biggest tallest buildings on the eastern seaboard, and a five sided building shaped like a bullseye. Amazing! The stupidity continues.
All coordinated by a man on a cell phone half way cross the world.
What? The bought plane tickets, highjacked the plane, and crashed it. What the hell is so complicated about this? Why would they need to "coordinate half way across the world"? You are now stuck on stupid.
the secret service allows the President to stay at an unprotected school even after the service realizes that some kind of coordinated, yet still not fully known, attack upon the US is under way.
Because of the danger of what? The schoolkids shooting him? This is the Secret Service, they can handle school kids. Boy you are dense.
certain government officials paving the way and ensuring that no USAF plane shoots down the planes,
We have a policy of not letting the Military shoot down civilian airliners. One that I happen to agree with.
that warning from FBI agents in both Minneapolis and California offices are delayed and denyed.
Yes, thanks to the Democratic party and the wall between security services prevents this information from getting where it needed to be. I suppose that you are in favor of the Patriot Act removing this problem?
Speak up stupid.
RE comment #72Funny how the only thing Fuck-nozzle sees in Comment #71 is the word "fuck-nozzle."
Comment by Continuum on 6/19 @ 4:02 pm #
Which is the more improbable conspiracy.
Case 1: A group of 19 Saudis, with minimal training on small civilian
propeller aircraft, coordinate a 4-fold attack (in both time, and
location), during the exact middle of a defence practice drill (which
envinsioned flying planes into buildings), and manage to fly jet planes
and actually hit what their aiming for. All coordinated by a man on a
cell phone half way cross the world. And, contrary to commonsense, the
secret service allows the President to stay at an unprotected school
even after the service realizes that some kind of coordinated, yet
still not fully known, attack upon the US is under way. There are lots
of questions which beg credulity.
or
Case 2. Same facts as above, but with certain government officials
paving the way and ensuring that no USAF plane shoots down the planes,
and that warning from FBI agents in both Minneapolis and California
offices are delayed and denyed.
See my post above. Look up the word ‘allotropic’ as it relates to steel and then get back to us. Or keep believing in UFOs
#70 — The first case requires fewer assumptions and fewer conspirators. It also fits the facts. Given the difficulty of getting people to take the threat of terrorism seriously AFTER 9/11, the fact it was difficult to get them to believe BEFORE is no surprise.
RE post #71.See post #32.
I asked nicely twice and you ignored me. Care to explain away the eye witnesses to the AA77 flight hitting the Pentagon?
I’m betting it’s a combination of ignorance, stupidity, and an unwillingness to confront the world as it really is. See Dr. Sanity’s site for some good discussions on how the Twoofers are indulging in dysfunctional coping mechanisms.
A couple of thoughts.
Re #70: I never stated which, if any, of the two scenarios, I profess to believe. Point was that we know there was a conspiracy, but who was the motivating force is yet not completely known. There remain too many coincindences and unanswered question for my comfort.
Re #74: Motivation is as always – money and power and stupidity. Read the writings from the "New American Century". Note what the initials of the original name for the Iraqi mis-adventure were before they were changed. For those who have short memories, the original name was "Operation Iraqi Liberation".
Re #75. See post #32. Why would I want to discuss motivations with those folks whose idea of an insult barely rises to the level of a 1st grader. At least "jawbone of an ass" showed intelligence although sadly betrayed an ignorance of his facts.
"…and manage to fly jet planes and actually hit what their aiming for."
Yikes, I had forgotten how the Al Qaeda manifesto at the time included terrorizing America by hitting major civilian and government landmarks. You know, like western Pennsylvania farmland.
Continuum, keep trying to make yourself feel special because you think you’re wary of something the rest of the silly rubes couldn’t possibly understand. The sense of self-importance can be heightened by perhaps hauling out a large mirror, doing "the tuck", and watching yourself dance to some goth music. Maybe a little rouge for the lips, too.
I would gently remind the readers of the rule regarding typing telephone poles. Thanks.
It’s odd that Continuum points to Bush sitting there reading to school children even after his (Bush’s) supposed attack had begun. Don’t you think that a President that either planned or acquiesced to such an attack would have prepared a bold, leader-like leap to his feet, a squaring of his jaw, a puffing of his chest and a taut, decisive statement for the cameras? Instead he sits there like a deer in headlights?
Re #79. Fewer conspirators but high degree of inability. Especially in flying jet planes and USAF planes in a holding pattern 150 miles off the NYC coast.
Occam’s razor is not always the correct way to make a choice.
Just once, I’d like to see the Truthers do a bit of compare and contrast with how an actual, non-sinister, government sanctioned secret was handled; for example, the way we and the Brits dealt with the MAGIC and ULTRA intelligence gleaned by Allied codebreakers during WWII and the various ways in which most (though not all) of that story came to light. Might be instructive for them to look at some actual, sinister conspiracies and how they played out – the Gunpowder Plot, Booth’s plans to assassinate everyone of significance in the Union government, the Teapot Dome affair, etc.
I always get a kick out of the line "unanswered questions" which inevitably means that the poster will then list a series of long-ago answered questions.
Re #85. Interesting comment. I like the "deer in the headlights".
BTW – I’m sure you know this, but for everybody else, what politician established the political later to become the Democratic party?
This is absolutely the best example of a psychological phenomenon (which I can’t remember the name of, but you all might recall).
It’s the one where people will believe a more complex scenario, even though the addition of further information makes it statistically less likely that the event occurred. For example, which is more likely: 1) a majority of successful single-mothers have professional careers, or 2) a majority of successful single-mothers are lesbians who have professional degrees and careers in the same field.
In any case, that’s kind of what Continuum’s two choices are 1) an unlikely event, 2) the same unlikely event, made even more unlikely.
Fantastically interesting.
Douchebag – AQ told us, quite specifically, what their motivations were. The unanswered questions and eerie “coincidences” apparently exist only in the minds of the Truthers.
Are you suggesting that the Bush administration worked with AQ, or did this conspiracy extend back to when their training began, during the Clinton administration?
One time, four of us were flying from Chicago to Orlando, but two had miles on American, and another two on United. We worked it out so that two of us took an American flight, while the other two, a United flight. We took off 10 minutes apart, and landed in Orlando about 15 minutes apart, so that when we picked up our luggage, our friends were just coming to pick up theirs.I tell you, it was one stunning feat of coordination. Luckily, Muslim terrorists don’t know about Travelocity.
And annnnnnnnnnnnnnny minute now Continuum/alphie/timmah!/(insert various batshiat nutroot alias here) will entertain us with a list of the various Republican "blogsites" that are on his side in……SPEAKING TRUTH TO POWER!!!
BECAUSE…….
BECAUSE…….
BECAUSE…….
BECAUSE……. OF THE TRUTHINESS!!!
I like when they argue the pilots lacked sufficient training to properly crash an airplane.
E.Nough, clearly something you could not accomplish without the assistance of the CIA, and the FAA, so obviously the Bush administration had to ensure your flights were so scheduled.
Ron Paul has been excluded from the upcoming Iowa debate. No doubt to prevent the truth from coming out.
Operation Iraq Liberation…O.I.L….oil…oil!
Jesus, it’s all so obvious now. The Bushies wanted to drive gas prices up to $3.50 a gallon so that the Dems could use it as a bludgeon to push global climate change initiatives, higher taxes on corporations, and burdensome increased CAFE standards that would end up costing lives — with the endgame being that they lose both Houses of Congress and maybe even the White House.
CRAZY LIKE A FOX!
Re #90. And, the CIA didn’t really test LSD on unsuspecting civilians. Nor, did US Army tell recruits that radiation was not a problem during atomic bomb testing in 1950’s. Nor did the spraying of agent orange in Vietnam cause any health risks. Nor did Reagan sell missles to the Ayatollah. Nor was Martha Mitchell right when she said "Mr President" was the conspirator before they stuck her away in a mental institution . . .
There was a conspiracy on 9/11. The question remains as to who was involved. Only some Arabs?
(However, I do not think that lesbians were involved. But, then again there’s Dick’s daughter. Were you making some kind of subconscious Freudian reference?)
And when all that socialistic crap failed — Americans would come RUNNING BACK TO REPUBLICANS!
Wow. And all it cost them was some buildings, several thousand troops, 3K in US civilian loss, and probably a few Hooter’s waitresses (to keep Kennedy quiet).
It’s so crazy that IT JUST MIGHT WORK!
Wow, all those bad actions by government … none of which remained secret for more than a few weeks or months … and none of which has anything to do with the events of 9/11 … Could your comments be more incoherent?
ROSWELL!ROSWELL! ROSWELL!ROSWELL! ROSWELL!
#97. Interesting how the Iraq invasion pops up during the discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories since the President has publicly stated, several times, that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11.
Curiously, none of the 19 hijackers were Iraqi. Although, 15 were Saudis, and some were from the smaller Arab states like Dubai (thing port deal and also Haliburton world headquarters.)
In any case, some kind of conspiracy existed. The question reamains whether it was just a group of Arabs or were there others involved.
Actually, I’m not curious about it, Continuum.
Continuum (@ #98),
Ok, we’ll go back to basic, basic maths here. If the probability of a thing happening is X, then the probability of that thing happening, in addition to the probability that a subset of that thing also happening is going to be less than X.
Or, to think of it this way, if the odds of me flipping a coin three times in a row and getting heads each time is 1 in 8. The odds that I will flip a coin next time and get a heads is still the same as it always was – 1 in 2 (because the coin has no memory), yet the cumulative odds of getting heads four times in a row isn’t 1 in 2, rather it’s 1 in 16 – and axiomatically has slimmer odds and is less likely than the cumulative odds for getting three in a row right.
You’ve outlined the scenarios – that scenario 1 happened, or scenario 1 happened, in addition to a whole bunch of other stuff. If I recall correctly, I might be thinking about what is sometimes called the fallacy of specificity, but seldom have I seen it laid out so very clearly.
BRD
Continuum: You forgot to take your 2 o’clock pill.
Yeah, they could.
Not by much, but there’s still room.
Man, this guy is like a clearinghouse for crazy.
What else ya got Continuum? I bet I’ve heard em all.
Was all of Washington DC laid out to coincide with the Masonic plan or eventual world domination?
Is Bush and his family part of the Illuminati performing satanic rituals?
Does Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland hold the secret to the Holy Grail bloodline protected for centuries by the remnants of the Knights Templar, who are preparing for the New World Order?
I’ve heard em all CT, swing away.
Re #101.
The LSD testing remained convered up for about 40 years.
For many years the US Army denied that it had subjected troops to any harm due to radiation during nuclear testing.
It took about 20 years before the VA admitted that agent orange had a detrimental effect to the troops in Vietnam despite their own medical records.
It required about 3 years before the Watergate Plumbers became known.
And just for grins, . . . you don’t have to answer. Do you know who Martha Mitchell was? Be honest to yourself.
Point being, that all governments consist of men who at times can be venal and self-serving.
When has an Air Force jet ever shot down a hijacked civilian airliner? What would any government official need do, other than what they have always done, to ensure this policy remained in place?
Has anyone noticed how awesome the new comments are? The snap shots make me happy.
Sheesh, he’s a walking list of logical fallacies.
It required about 3 years before the Watergate Plumbers became known.
Huh?
I suppose it could depend on what you mean by "Plumbers," but even so, I seem to recall that quite a lot had been revealed about the circumstances related to the 1972 break-in by the time of Nixon’s resignation in 1974.
Because, like the NPC’s in a D&D game, no other group on earth can do anything but what the DungeonMaster – or Rove/The Illuminati/Zionists/ J.P. Mogan’s head-in-a-jar decides they will do. No one could think that getting control of jetliners leaving at about the same time could give them some incrediblly explosive kamikaze aircraft. Not the examples from the Pacific Theater sixty years previous, or the idiot who crashed a light plane on the White House lawn six years previous. Or a Herr Rust landing a light plane on Red Square in the late eighties – you think KAL 007 made everyone leery about randomly shooting down civilian airliners?
No, no other person or group can think or plot without the DungeonMaster controlling all.
Major John: Yes, I agree about ‘typing telephone poles’. However, the host has the joy and duty of dealing with such (with the help that regular guests to this tavern/coffee shop can provide). Dr. Johnson – I mean, Jeff? What do you want us to do?
Not to mention that they were arrested on the spot, eh, Pendragon?
Yep, and arraigned the following morning in a public hearing attended by Woodward, among others.
The only way you can begin to go down the rabbitholes that Continuum espouses is if you believe that there was a conspiracy to start with. From there, you just start to plug in vague references to coincidences and unanswered questions about your ideological opponent. The old prove a negative crap.
Wow, Pendragon, what a truly brilliant conspiracy! The tentacles sure can reach deep eh?
#112 Do you suppose that the Nixon Watergate Plumbers were doing nothing prior to the break in?
Do you honestly believe that the break in was the first, one and only time that Nixon had his minions break the law?
So, OK it wasn’t 3 years. Mea Culpa. The known crime took 2 years to come to light. Note that it took a "deep throat" to disclose the conspiracy. Until the very end, Nixon etal denied that any conspiracy had ever existed. Up and until the tapes and the testimony of Dean.
Do you forget that Reagan was selling missles to the Ayatollah while publicy denying it? What do you think Ollie was shredding in his office?
What the hell are you talking about, it was on the news the next day. It took awhile for the whole story to develop, but we knew Democrat headquarters had been burglarized the next day, and it was by a bunch of ex-spooks in less than a week.
It’s real Martin Sheen voice-over territory, Robin: the horror – the horror.
Conituum,
Where are the republican sites agreeing that there was some type of conspiracy on 9/11?
Nixon didn’t have his minions break the law that time, dumbfuck, he was found to have had no prior knowledge of the break-in and was pissed off by it. He was only guilty of trying to cover it up. But since anything you can’t prove is further proof of the secret plots everybody knows about, I guess I am proving your point by disproving it, huh?
Continuum, no one has been able to keep a government conspiracy secret since Julius Caesar, Crassus and Pompey formed the first triumvirate. You need to find a new hobby, one that does not embarrass you as much in public.
Re #119.
The crime in question was the break in. The crime was the conspiracy by Nixon etal.
Liddy and crew were apprehended that same night.
Nixon denied any knowledge of their activities, and that they were working out of the oval office for years.
The burglary was the tip of the Watergate conspiracy and coverup that went on for years.
What do you think Bernstein was discussing with "deep throat ". . . just discussing how Liddy picked the locks.
The true crime was the coverup and the other corrupt activities that were revealed as investigators delved into the White House activities.
Truly sad.
I think continuum has a friend at lennonmurdertruth.com. I heard about the site on Dennis Miller’s radio show.
#122. If you believe that Dick had no knowledge of the plumbers activities before hand, then I truly feel sorry for you.
And as to "He was only guilty of trying to cover it up." Sounds like a conspiracy to me.
Why try to cover up something of which you were completely innocent, and had no prior knowledge?
Continuum, So I take you’re a LIHOP?
BRD at #127: Was that ever a question?
I know it’s moronic arguing with someone who’s demented, but I’ve had a beer, so I will. Look, Continuum, I don’t doubt that there are some conspiracies in political life. For all I know, ever since Kennedy got wacked Fidel Castro sleeps with an enigmatic smile on his face; but not every disaster in public life is a conspiracy. Ever since Watergate, every goddam thing is a conspiracy. That’s bullshit. Watergate created a mindset in the media that has poisoned all subsequent public discourse. It’s created a generation of media hounds intent of making their reputations by unearthing the latest conspiracy. Consequently, they are constantly on the prowl for a conspiracy. Anything resembling a conspiracy will do. Sometimes, shit just happens. You have been had.Well-documented history–history describing the events of several hundred years–suggests that there’s a recurring radical expansionist impulse in Islam–an impulse that remains constant despite the prevailing motive du jour. Of course they attacked us. They hate our decadent civilization and want to destroy us.The only things Bush could attain are things he posseses already: money and power.You should not be too quick to dismiss Occam. He was brighter than you are.
This guys is AWESOME. We haven’t a true nutball around here in a while, just the semantic crap from timmah!.
He gives up the 9/11 stuff to focus on the next……and it’s the –
Watergate conspiracy?
FAIL.
Re #127. Learned something new. I’m probably more inclined to this thought than much of anything else.
In my short life, I have seen too many instances where the government said one thing and then were found out to be doing the opposite.
C’mon, people. Let’s not re-hash Watergate with this fool.
Fair enough. So, you’ve been hanging around the thread for a while, and I did feel compelled to ask if you actually have any point you intend to make, evidence you intend to cite, or reasoning you wish to produce. Or are we just going to get more baseless assertions hatched directly from your forehead?
Ummm, Continuum, Woodward was Deep Throat’s contact – and Liddy would be very surprised to learn that he was arrested that same night (as would Hunt were he alive). You’re not helping your case here by presenting a version of Watergate that seems to owe more to a mis-remembered viewing of All the President’s Men than documented fact.
Re #133. Not sure who here is really making baseless assertions.
Or, who is being naive.
As an old CPA, I know that I have uncovered problems when just one single number looks askew. Sometimes it’s only a unusual number. Other times, it’s been a controller embezzling funds.
You know, one thing I’m always a bit perplexed by is the notion that the conspirators are stopped by… an appeal to the justice system. Like, the idea that evidence of the conspiracy is best validated when police arrest somebody. Doesn’t that strike you as kind of a weird sort of co-dependent psychology?
Do not count your assertions before they are hatched.Nor your chickens before they are catched.
Re #134.
Never saw "All the Presidents Men" .
Sailing under my own memories of reading in newspapers and watching the hearings on TV.
I’ll admit that on certain specifics, I am probably wrong. Was it the same day they were arrested or was it the next?
Was it Woodward or Bernstein who talked to "deep throat".?
Was there a conspiracy that permeated to the highest levels of the government? No question.
#97. Interesting how the Iraq invasion pops up during the discussion
of 9/11 conspiracy theories since the President has publicly stated,
several times, that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11.
Uh, YOU brought it up. In an earlier post. Don’t you remember? So you see, there’s no conspiracy here. No nefarious connection. Nothing for Casaubon to hang his meta-hat on.
Most of the time it’s just that simple.
The cow would give him no milk, so now he has gone to milk the bull.
I’ll admit that on certain specifics, I am probably wrong.
If, by "certain specifics," you mean almost every assertion you’ve made regarding the Watergate affair, then I’d have to agree with you. You really, really need to come up with another celebrated scandal to cite in futherance of your point – how about the Catilline Conspiracy? That one has alliteration!
Re #141.
Good response.
It wasn’t the "Watergate Conspiracy", it was the "Watergate Affair."
Deny, that President Nixon knew anything about the Plumbers.
Deny, that Nixon tried to cover up their efforts.
Deny, that anyone ever broke into Daniel Ellsberg’s psychiatrist office.
Deny that the Republican "dirty tricks" crew ever existed.
Deny, that anyone was ever ordered to "deep six" the briefcase in the Potomic.
Deny, that Nixon resigned in disgrace.
Deny, that anybody ever went to jail.
I like the way you think.
Wow, I feel better already. (Now, click your heels together 3 times and repeat "There’s no place like home . . . ")
How about he points us to the Republican base blogs which support the truther movement?
Incidentally, here’s a very much related paper:<a href="http://undicisettembre.blogspot.com/2007/06/why-dont-pentagon-videos-clearly-show.html"> Why don’t the Pentagon videos clearly show a plane?</a>
And Continuum speaks like an alphie on coke. Make of that what you will.
That isn’t what I’m saying, Continuum – I’m not denying anything about Watergate; I’m merely speaking from a position of familiarity with the facts of the matter, rather than throwing out assertions in the hope that one of them will stick. Again, you haven’t covered yourself with glory in your recitation of the Watergate scandal, but more importantly, you also haven’t demonstrated that what little you seem to know that actually matches up with reality in any way buttresses your conclusion that 9/11 represents a conspiracy in some way aided and abetted by someone other than those Al Qaeda. That a past example of government wrong-doing exists is not Q.E.D. for controlled demolition in the Twin Towers – or whatever your preferred hyper-mega-super-secret plot might have been: reptilloids, maybe, or holograms?
Actually, I think Continuum sounds more like semanticleo before he starts hitting the vodka.
Testing the link button thingy – This may be a conspiracy too.
Still waiting for him to address a few of the questions posed to him above. Since I am new to this thread, I invite Continuum to actually provide evidence of: 1. Any "Republican base sites" that actually agree with the Truthers.2. Any indication that Bush knew of any kind of conspiracy regarding the roughly coordinated attacks on four widely spread targets on September 11, 2001. 3. Any indication that "most of the nation", much less "most of the Republican base", believes anything even remotely resembling point number 2.4. Who he actually thinks the "Philistines" are (the question that Rosie also refuses to answer, FWIW). If he can, of course.I ask politely once, with no name-calling, just to give him a legitimate opportunity to use facts and logic and evidence to prove us all wrong.Or not, and prove us all right.
I gotta say, I’m not in love with the paragraph spacing… :-(
Excellent – I guess those HIG dudes shooting at me were really Blackwater subcontractors?
Sometimes our enemies really are our enemies. Strange conspiracy theories about FDR aside, Pearl Harbor really was attacked (and the US/Phillipines, British and Dutch possessions too) by people who were quite clear about why they attacked us. If AQ had guys in top hats and coats hand over a typed DoW, would that have been more convincing than OBL lookng into a video camera and telling us he was gunning for us?
I don’t understand the incredulity in finding that 19 highly motivated Arabs, using a method that had not been used before to make a type of suicide attack that had not been carried out is soimpossible. Is it some sort of bigotry? You know, those people can’t put on a robe straight, much less plan an attack…
Must have been mass halluncinations in Munich in 1972, or at various airports across the "skyjacking" era of the 1970s, early 1980s.
#149. I double-tap with my enter key for paragraph spacing.
Like this.
Or this.
*You mock their doubts from the false security of your ever shrinking neocon thinktank circle.* Its an octagon jackass.
I thought it was a pentagram. Or a pentangle, maybe? Hey, I have enough trouble with the obligatory opening invocation of "Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn," as it is – that thing is hellacious if you’ve got sinus difficulties.
Octagon? I heard it was a dodecahedron!
Continuum,
You note your experience as a CPA in grabbing a hold on an errant number an following it to it’s source and prying out some previously hidden information. Sadly, however, the deterministic world of the CPA is not always echoed in the broader, chaotic and probabilistic world around us. For if the world hewed as tightly to discrete models as you would like to believe, the concepts of statistics, odds, betting, chance, and so on would have no meaning. Sometimes a coincidence is just that, and sometimes the scary fact that 19 guys got the better of 3,000 people one bright clear Tuesday morning, is just the fact as it appears.
BRD
Major John: You iterate exactly what I have said and think – why is it impossible for avowed enemies to plan and put forth a series of hijackings and then use those hijacked aircraft as human-piloted (kamikaze-type) cruise missiles? Why is it impossible to believe that North American air defense would have dificulty finding and targeting and dropping four highjacked airliners out of the myriad of aircraft airborne on a perfect flying day in one of the busiest air sectors in this world? Why would North American Air Defense even target a highjacked airliner until after the second plowed into the WTC? The first could have been a fubar by an inexperienced pilot, the second…Oh, Lord! Where are all of those aircraft? Which one is the right one? Where are the interceptors now?
Can the interceptors intercept in time? This is not Pearl Harbor where the radar station caught one massive blip on screen and thought that was the expected B-17 flight from California. Out of that massive tracking, with panic running through all of the air traffic controllers and running through all of the air defense officers – which of these aircraft are the highjacked ones? Am I vectoring that F-16 on an actually highjacked kamikaze airliner, or am I vectoring it on an innocent aircraft? Can I order shoot it down? Am I right?
I’m glad for the trolls here that they can stand in those shoes on that day and cooly determine all of that; that none of them would sweat bullets right then. I’m happy for their certainty that there are no external enemies; just the enemies we elect; just the enemies that were hired or commissioned by the federal government over the prior thirty years who helped orchestrate the worst attack on this country in 180 years. I wish I had that certaintude.
Jeez, you go away for an hour or two, come back and Continuum is still here being an asshole. I think it’s time he makes a trip to alphieland, don’t you Jeff? Or does everyone want a chance to beat him around the head and shoulders a bit more?
Wow, Continuum is good at sophistry. Notice how he hasn’t made a point yet. He is merely confirming his own warped narrative of wingut perfidy. Takes all kinds to make an internet, I guess.
I’m still waiting for Continuum (or his compatriots) to cite the Wold Newton hypothesis.
What a surprise- Continuum hasn’t supplied us (yet) with the Truther Republican base “blog sites.” Perhaps he’s still searching.
Twoofermania!
First Liddy
Now Libby
Does no one else out there see the pattern of deception?
First ClintonThen BergerDoes no one else out there see the pattern of deception?
Damned editor…
Libby was a nothing.Clinton was the Prez. Berger, his Condi Rice.Shredding and stealing classified docks while the Big Man lied under oath to a federal judge.THAT’s deception, Steve.
TWA 800 was shot down by the USS Vincennes. The crew were prevented from blabbing to their spouses or the National Enquirer by mind control drugs administered in their morning OJ.
Iran Air 655 was brought down by Libyan agents working for Savak.
Henri Paul was blinded by the Duke of Edinburgh using a laser pointer. The Duke then ran down the tunnel, ripped open the door of the Mercedes and carried out a field termination of Diana’s pregnancy.
The foetus is kept in a locked vault at Highgrove.
Mary Jo Kopechne was strangled on the orders of Richard Nixon in order to discredit the last of the Kennedys. She was then smuggled into Teddy’s car and he was hypnotised into thinking he was drunk and pushed off the bridge.
John Lennon was shot dead by Secret Service bodyguards after he tried tomurder Ronald Reagan with an ice-pick. The body was dumped outside the Dakota building and all the passers by were hypnotised by the CIA.
Ron Paul!
Henri Paul was blinded by the Duke of Edinburgh using a laser pointer. The Duke then ran down the tunnel, ripped open the door of the Mercedes and carried out a field termination of Diana’s pregnancy.
The foetus is kept in a locked vault at Highgrove.
You know, I haven’t heard that before, but it’s just so fucking plausible. Let’s just say that I have questions.
I’m reminded of the time I visited Mesa Verde National Park ( which is in southwestern Colorado and has the best cliff-dwellings ). The ranger I was talking to was telling us about the year that X-Files had a episode that involved aliens being buried at the Park and all the Japanese tourists insisted that the ranger show the alien graves to them.
I turned on my TV tonite, and the first network show I came across was named Roswell, about some UFO Truthers. Continuum – Were you one of the ones being interviewed?
The foetus is kept in a locked vault at Highgrove.
Guarded by Messrs. Duniwch and Al Hazred, perhaps?
I found a picture of Continuum, from one of my disinfo agents working overtime tonight.
"Dunwich," that is. Real horror, that spelling of mine.
Well, I commented earlier today on a furball over at Right Wing News with a couple of konspiracy kooks, that Occam’s Razor is the thing that troothers keep cutting their own throats with.
Trooothers give me a trooothache.
Oh, and Continuum, you do realize that you’re insane, don’t you?
Plausible is an anagram of Paul B Lies.
Paul Burrell was Diana’s butler.
Coincidence? I don’t think so.
OMFG!!! So, who did it? Must have been Rove, right?
Everyone knows how much fun it is to put someone on. As soon as Moore learned lightning did not strike when he lied, Moore made a lucrative career of it.
Man, I miss the old trolls. It’s nice, however, to see the "Gibberish Response" is still in use, albeit in a slightly simpler form.
Thus sayeth Maddox: "The fact that Dylan Avery is still alive is proof that Loose Change is bullshit."
The Truthers (and those who pander to them, like Moore) are nothing more than the foreshadowing of the coming Idiocracy. If you told them that water makes plants grow, they’d tell you "I ain’t seen no plants ever growing in no toilet!"
It’s impossible to convince them that their consipiracy-theory bullshit won’t stand up to even superficial scrutiny; better to kick them in the crotch if you ever meet them and hope their capacity to reproduce never recovers.
So, continuum, this giant Bushco C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y was supposed to do what exactly?
You’re a little . . . um . . . let’s call it "vague" on that point.
Whereas the objectives/motivations of the jihadis who flew the planes?
Crystal.
Uh, dude, it was to distract the sheeple from discovering who dropped a deuce in the urinal.
"better to kick them in the crotch if you ever meet them and hope their capacity to reproduce never recovers."
Finally, a strategy I can buy into.
Jesus! Now it’s Watergate! Conspiracies!I admit somedays I wish I had so much time and so little intellect that I could indulge in such nonsense. It must be therapudic since so many knucklheads occupy thier time that way.
It is obvious that no Truther ever saw the house I lived in my senior year…
<i>I like when they argue the pilots lacked sufficient training to properly crash an airplane.</i> Crashing these modern jet planes is very difficult, dontchaknow. All those terrain avoidance features and that flies-itself intelligence built in, just like the plane I saw in <i>Terror in the Skies</i>. "Turn off the omni!!" will never cease to crack me the hell up.
I…ow. I have no apologies for that last comment. All these new buttons have confused me.
Well, well, that was a fine hairy nutball kerfuffle!
After watching the video and reading the transcripts I’m left with the conclusion that Moore, as is his want, panderedto the hairy nutballs for the purpose of punching up ticket sales. Maybe he really believes it and maybe he doesn’t but the intent seems clear.
I’m also of the opinion that F 9/11 was one of the most significant catalysts for the hairy nutballs, providing them with enough twisted information to make the "inside job" meme even more palatable.
Not that the hairy nutballs require a whole lot of stoking, mind you.
Actually, it does take some serious jihadi fu to overcome Otto when he’s really pissed. Like when some terrorist interrupts the stewardess right in the middle of reinflating him.
"Comment by JD on 6/19 @ 1:51 pm #
The
ironic part about this is that folks like timmah and MM gleefully make
fun of President Bush being stupid, and at the same time, are able to
ignore the cognitive dissonance when they argue that Bush tricked them
into supporting the war, or that a stupid person would be able to
mastermind something like their nutjob theories." Congratulations, JD, you’re on familiar ground, i.e. you’re completely fucking wrong about what I believe.
First of all, President Bush did not trick me into war. I opposed the war from the second it was publicly proposed and still do. Being right about the fallacy and silliness of this war is one of the things that makes me your intellectual superior (I said "one"; there are plenty of others).
Secondly, I do not believe the President is dumb. I think he is incurious, pedantic, stubborn, mean-spirited, and a tool of the Vice President. When he knowledgeable and interested about an issue, he acts with sincere belief he is correct. He is often and disastrously wrong, but we all share that folly.
Lastly, if you were able to read, you would note from my original comment that I neither believe 9/11 to be an inside job, nor do I particularly like Moore (I have yet to see any of his movies)
I know better to expect an apology from anyone on PW (except BJ, IF he were ever wrong), so I will not hold my breath waiting for yours. But, before you run off thinking all libs believe something, maybe you should actually read something, ANYTHING, one of them wrote.
You left out your humility.
Tim’s got more humility is his little finger than most of us have in our whole bodies!
If cleanliness is next to godliness, Tim’s gotta be the cleanest sumbitch that ever walked the earth. I bet he doesn’t even have to put on a bunny suit when he goes into the clean room at the fab plant.
President Bush is pedantic and mean-spirited? Those are new ones to me.
You are my intellectual superior? That is like Michael Moore saying he is in better shape than me, like Wee Man declaring that he is taller than me, or like the crazy guy with the sandwich boards babbling about armageddon.
timmah – I have heard war described in many ways. That is the first time I have seen silly used. Explain.
Good point, Rob, but I don’t feel like using when I deal with JD. You, perhaps, sure. Most of the other commenters, yeah, but not with "the Hannity" that is JD.
Anyway, I was interested in 156 by Mikey regarding the shooting down by USAF pilots of a civilian jetliner. I read at the time an account of the USAF Reserve pilots who were scrambling to intercept Flight 93. They had orders from the VP to shoot the damn thing down. To me, the heroism of the folks on that plane is magnified by the fact that they saved those pilots from shooting down a civilian airplane (which, of course, was the right call). Can you imagine being one of those pilots and shooting that plane down? Having to do it and feeling good about it are two very different things.
Those attacks came way too close to actually decapitating the US government. Think about it, the plane that hit the Pentagon was supposed to hit the White House (with the Pentagon as a secondary target) after all the important people had gathered to discuss NYC. The other plane, which took off late and thus enabled the passengers to rebel, was most likely headed for Congress. The fact the President was not in town was like the carriers missing from Pearl Harbor, just pure damn luck.
I hate to pile on the troll, mainly because I’m generally at the receiving end, but Cheney burning to death in the White House on 9/11 seems a strange way to culminate his greatest conspiracy.
timmah – I apologize for lumping you in with MM. My bad. You are clearly skinnier and smarter than that douchebag.
By the way, on Bill Maher’s show it was apparent that Mr. Moore has dropped quite a few lbs. He is still portly, but less in a John Goodman way.
JD, I pick whatever adjectives I like. What part of the administrations were not silly: Iraq = imminent threat (I looked out my window and I failed to see the Iraqi LST’s)? Greeted as liberators? War will finance itself? Establish democracy in a country with no institutions and no history of democracy?
As I have said before on these pages, we went to Iraq 1) to topple Saddam, 2) destroy his WMD’s, and 3) hold elections. Mission accomplished. Put the Pres on aircraft carrier with a banner and a codpiece and let’s get the hell out.
The problem with Watergate, was this it revealed what ws common place in political surveillance and sabotage for a generation; and spun it in a negative fashion. The approach is clearly seen in All the Presidents Men, where the reporters stumble upon the break in & are so clueless as not to know who Howard Hunt is; and that he had worked 20+ years for the CIA; and his involvement with the Cuba project, or even know who Charles Colson; that era’s Karl Rove (I could understand Bernstein’s cluelessness but Woodward’s; given his Navy top secret Navy security clearances; Of course we understand now this was to obscure his ties to Mark Felt; the FBI agent who was conducting ‘black bag jobs’ against leftists which came to light because of Watergate, was convicted for them; and was pardoned by Reagan)
The Plumbers were the in house version of agencies like Intertel composed of former FBI/CIA/NSA officials like Walter Sheridan; who took on surveillance as well as private business like the NFL (re; that Moldea book I refernces as with Armitage & Libby) That was Gemstone, Liddy’s pet project. The ‘notorious’ Ellsberg break in was I admit a ham handed way of dealing with a national security risk who had once worked as part of the country team of Lansdale; (had run afoul of a Corsican gangster, who had threatened to kill him , because he was messing with his girl; could you imagine how history would have changed then) delivered the SIOP (missile targeting ) to the Russian embassy , because he had gone all peacenik now; Of course he had left out NSAM 263 out of thePentagon Papers; the one with the secret plan to ‘redeploy’ the advisers out of Vietnam. commissioned to stop the leaks mainly about bombing runs in Cambodia; which had to do with intersecting arms supplies into South Vietnam; this was due to the idiocy of Prince Sihanouk; ‘that happy sax playing prince’that the late Spaulding Grey had referenced in Swimming to Cambodia; this would lead to the Lon Nol coup by the Khmer Serai ; which Kerry said he participated in; "the hat" and his endorsement of a Chinese backed Khmer Rouge exile movement; Thank you, Henry. AfterCooper/Church stopped those raids and US Forces were ‘redeployed ‘ out; than the Year Zero festivities bega; which neither Lake, Halperin, Wells, or the other conscientous staffers on the 5th Floor everapologized for bringing about. The irony about Segretti and the little pranks he pulled; is the Left still haven’t figured out that their great triumph, theMcGovern nomination; was a resultof the White House’s deliberate calculations how unelectable he was; Kind of if we hadprevented Dean from self destructing and he had gone on to win the nominations; or Edwards today. Nixon had basically told them to do what was necessary to solve the problem;he didn’t specifically authorize the break in. Which was the
Now as to the other issues; people didn’t think there was something wrong with military maneuvers in the shadow of a mushroom cloud, just like they didn’t think cigarettes were bad for them? The LSD is less defensible; mostly because the CIA officials who authorized them; tried the stuff first (I’m not making it up) The Iran initiative was admitted a desperation measure do to our frustration with the failure of Operation Staunch by all parties involved;and our lack of information with the Iranian Hezbollah connection in Beirut.
Of course a Truther mega conspiracy, which did not deal with crazy ideas like remote control airliners, or cruise missiles, would involve CIA officials recruiting Atta and other parties in the early 90s, sending him onto to Germany, keeping tabs on them in Chechnya, Aleppo, Florida, etc; keeping them off the radar of their own agencies; we didn;t need to do the latter; the Gorelick ‘Wall’ memo did that for us.
I’m sorry I got angry. I can’t conspiracy types. I apologize for comparing you to Hannity.
By God, we’re suddenly making some progress here.
Portly?
Michael Moore?
Maybe you where thinking porcine?
He could lose two hundred and still be a fat ass. His eyes are so fat they’ve eaten his glasses
Tim, I think where I disagree with you there is on the ‘imminent threat’ thing. Whether or not there were any positive consequences (the GWoT, et al) that followed from it, 9/11 demonstrated very strongly that ‘imminent threats’ don’t even need to have a visible foothold anywhere near us to be able to cause massive loss of life.
Comment by narciso on 6/20 @ 8:53 am # I think I now believe in UFOs.
Interesting, considering the nutbar post above: G. Gordon Liddy tried to steal stuff from the DNC, he’s a pariah; Sandy
Berger successfully stole stuff from the 9/11 Commission, he’s a hero. -Tom Delay
Portly? He still had lard dripping from his eyebrows from the side of beef and the 7 super size orders of fries he had for breakfast that day. So, he hs dropped from 450 to 375. He is still a fat rippling sack of goo.
Hannity – As I neither watch or listen to him, I did not follow that one. I did go meet him when he spoke at Butler.
JD, that comment made me laugh out loud and simultaneously image MM as a Horta.
Pellegri,
Laugh out loud. Damn. I was shooting for arms crossed beneath bosom ;-)
To all the Left-wing Nutcases that think this was an "inside job".
I work with a guy, an ex-Navy Capt. Helicopter pilot, that just so happened not to be at work that day in Sept., although several of his friends and collegues were.
In his office, a few doors down from mine, he keeps a clock. It’s stopped on 10 minutes to 10, the time when the plane hit his Pentagon office and killed several of his co-workers. That clock sits in a place of honor for him.
Why don’t you come discuss your conspiracy theories with him? I’m sure he’d just love to talk to you about them.
Narciso, you’re clowning, right? Since you use the semicolon so much, I assume you have a colostomy or an ileostomy, right?
OT, site question: Why do the comments appear to shift slowly to the left (the HORRORS!!) as one goes down the page? Some of the text gets sliced off.
Constipated, I mean Continuum, what are you high on?
My God! You’re all in on it! I should have known. All the light hearted banter, the sly glances, the "in" humor", the witty reparte, the mockery. Especially the mockery! I bet even actus was a plant!
I’m sure that <a href="http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/the-north-tower-collapse-a-computer-simulation/">this</a> will give the Truthers another piece of inconvenient reality to ignore.Whenever I read or hear truthers speak I can’t help but picture Ralph Wiggums sticking an ice cream cone on his forehead and declaring "I’m a unitard".
Arrrrrgggggg! Try again
He was.
No, really, he was a plant! Some kind of indigenous fern or hoar root. We took turns watering him/her…
He always seemed like more of a fungus or a mold to me.
Yeah, it’s hard for me to imagine actus actually contributing oxygen…
Dang. And I thought we finally had nestable blockquotes.
Timmy, It may not be worth a hill of beans, but I do give you credit for coming by your views honestly, and am completely sympathetic to your agitation with being lumped in with the Troother viewpoint. I think you’re wrong about a lot of things, but I don’t think you are disenegnuous or lazy about the beliefs you hold. BRD
"He always seemed like more of a fungus or a mold to me. "
Psilocybin mushroom?
Shiitake. Or a portion thereof. (And I just love it when my internet connection goes down spontaneously just as I’m trying to post a comment.)
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kingb13jun13,0,4679488.story?coll=la-home-center
Government health care at it’s finest
Please tell me you didn’t just type that… that is one of the older, threadbare and disproven scraps of wrongness around.
The point was NOT to wait until Iraq WAS and imminent threat. The President was very specific about that. Sigh. I feel like Tim Blair re: the "Plastic Turkey"
On Hot Air today, there’s a clip of Michele Malkin talking to Bill O’Reilly about the Perdue sim.
They had a tiny clip, the part showing the spread of the fuel in the
interior of the building, and a nagging jangle went off in the back of
my head.
"That reminds me of something" kept niggling in my head.
Then it hit me.
The airplanes were homemade FAEs, Fuel Air Explosives.
Ten. Thousand. Pound. FAEs.
Comments?