February 15, 2009

Patronage, squared: Obamaco to roll-back the clock on “Clinton” Welfare Reform

The “reasonable” explanations from Marc Ambinder notwithstanding, the fact of the matter is, welfare reform is being intentionally rolled back under Obama. From NRO:

Prior to reform, the federal government simply gave the states more money for every family they added to the welfare rolls. The predictable result was that the states worked hard to maximize their welfare caseloads in order to maximize the amount of federal funding they could therefore claim. The system had zero incentive to help people make the transition from welfare to work and independence—in fact, the states were financially punished for doing so. The Clinton-Gingrich reforms replaced that bounty-hunter system with a flat rate for each state, based on population and other factors. That gave state-level welfare authorities a better set of incentives, encouraging them to use their resources in the most effective manner and to reserve them for the truly needy.

The results were successful—spectacularly so. The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act was followed by reductions in both the number of families on welfare and the rate of poverty. Single women entered the workforce in substantial numbers and the household incomes of former welfare recipients went up. In other words, the incentives to reduce welfare dependence and help people to find work, worked.

Obama, in what is plainly a sop to ACORN and the rest of the “community organizing” gang, is overturning those reforms. Under the provisions in the stimulus bill, states will once again be paid a bounty for expanding their welfare rolls. As reported by Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation, the federal government will now pay states 80 percent of the cost for each new family they sign up for welfare. That means that states will get $4 for every $1 they spend. This will leave the main welfare program, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), with a funding mechanism similar to the one that supports Medicaid. As Brian Blase argues here, Medicaid’s funding ratio, which gives states $1 to $3 for every dollar they spend, has caused state Medicaid spending to skyrocket. If Medicaid’s dollar-for-dollar model has proved ruinous, Obama’s new $4-to-$1 ratio for welfare will prove, in all likelihood, four times so.

[...]

Given that the states will receive $4 from the federal government for every $1 they add to their welfare budgets, even conservative governors will feel pressure to inflate their welfare rolls in order to wring every dollar they can out of Washington. And there are early rumblings about removing the already weak work requirements that rounded out the Clinton-era reforms.

The Democrats are stuffing years’ worth of legislation into their “stimulus” bill. They are operating in the legislative shadows, evading scrutiny and debate, while enacting an expansion of the welfare state that would never survive a more considered process. Obama’s right-hand man, Rahm Emanuel, put it bluntly if cynically: “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.”

Astute readers will recognize in that final formulation one of the tells of a fascistic regime.

What we’ve witnessed is classic misdirection: spend 8 years yelling “fascist” at an interventionist foreign policy that your “side” (insofar as you purport to be liberals) long supported, one designed to free certain countries from despotic rule — admittedly, out of both self-interest as well as in the interest of an ideal — in order to hide your own truly fascistic and totalitarian ambitions. Shine a light on religious boogeymen to scare the masses with stories of a coming theocracy even as you work to develop the Church of the Ever Expanding God State.

That the mainstream press — and even some members of the niche political press like certain writers for NRO — helped in the fleecing of the American electorate, is a shame I hope they never live down.

Of course, that assumes shame is something these wide-eyed ideologues can actually feel.

And I wouldn’t bet on that.

Posted by Jeff G. @ 12:23pm
349 comments | Trackback

Comments (349)

  1. At the risk of repeating myself: We Are All Fascists Now

    Socialism rests on a firm theoretical bedrock: the abolition of private property. I haven’t heard anyone this side of Barney Frank calling for any such thing. What is happening now–and Newsweek is honest enough to say so down in the body of the article–is an expansion of the state’s role, an increase in public/private joint ventures and partnerships, and much more state regulation of business. Yes, it’s very “European,” and some of the Europeans even call it “social democracy,” but it isn’t.

    It’s fascism. Nobody calls it by its proper name, for two basic reasons: first, because “fascism” has long since lost its actual, historical, content; it’s been a pure epithet for many decades. Lots of the people writing about current events like what Obama et. al. are doing, and wouldn’t want to stigmatize it with that “f” epithet.

    Second, not one person in a thousand knows what fascist political economy was. Yet during the great economic crisis of the 1930s, fascism was widely regarded as a possible solution, indeed as the only acceptable solution to a spasm that had shaken the entire First World, and beyond. It was hailed as a “third way” between two failed systems (communism and capitalism), retaining the best of each. Private property was preserved, as the role of the state was expanded. This was necessary because the Great Depression was defined as a crisis “of the system,” not just a glitch “in the system.” And so Mussolini created the “Corporate State,” in which, in theory at least, the big national enterprises were entrusted to state ownership (or substantial state ownership) and of course state management. Some of the big “Corporations” lasted a very long time; indeed some have only very recently been privatized, and the state still holds important chunks–so-called “golden shares”–in some of them.

  2. Oh.. I should have bolded this

    This was necessary because the Great Depression was defined as a crisis “of the system,” not just a glitch “in the system.”

    Obama never misses an opportunity to furl his brow in front of the camera, drop his voice into “doom” range and say “This is the most serious economic crisis since the Great Depression.”

  3. People are going to have to relearn how to boost cars and work a transistor radio.

    AWESOME! I LOVES ME SOME PIMP CLOTHES!

  4. The “hiding” of totalitarian impulses won’t last long. They have just gotten started. Free speech will be the next victim.

    Lefties do not accept dissent from the party line. All in the name of fairness, don’t you know?

  5. JeffG

    There has been tons of writing on how “united” Americans were under FDR…and for the most part, vis a vis “the war effort” that was true. But rationing of things like gasoline, food and clothing created a black market, too — fueled by the capricious way rationing was handled. The [not entirely unfounded] perception was that rationing was less about the war effort and more about centralized economic control.

  6. Astute readers will recognize in that final formulation one of the tells of a fascistic regime.

    Engaged in a wee bit of hyperbole, no?

    What we’ve witnessed is classic misdirection: spend 8 years yelling “fascist” at an interventionist foreign policy that your “side” (insofar as you purport to be liberals) long supported, one designed to free certain countries from despotic rule — admittedly, out of both self-interest as well as in the interest of an ideal — in order to hide your own truly fascistic and totalitarian ambitions. Shine a light on religious boogeymen to scare the masses with stories of a coming theocracy even as you work to develop the Church of the Ever Expanding God State.

    The “they” would be a less hegmonic other than yours and PW’s general overworked assumption, obviously, because I was in favor of the Iraq war and only became disgusted by the affair after the costs proved to be another porkish political want, in other words Bush didn’t want to win he wanted to polish up the apple nice and pretty and rebuild the entire country so he could say to the world, “look, bunnies!”

    My theory is this, you do not have to take out all the dictators in the world, just the top three or four and the other dic.s will get the memo. Same as with illegal aliens, we don’t need deport all twelve million (or is it 20-mil?), after we deport the first million most of the others will follow. I rest my confidence in the viral effect of news.

    BTW, back to your welfare fascisticismings, wouldn’t the $4 windfall that the state receives be spent on actually paying welfare stipends? Why would the assumption be this money would go into the state coffer? And if the Clinton-Gingrich incentive-ized approach worked so well, why are the welfare rolls bulging so at the state level? Ah, maybe an environment exists where state unemployment is a function of national trends not easily scontrolled on the state level regardless of state incentivization policies?

  7. Bush didn’t want to win he wanted to polish up the apple nice and pretty and rebuild the entire country….

    The parsnip level stupidity continues…

  8. I denonce you all and myself as racists for even doubting the wisdom of our Dear Leader’s plan, let alone voicing it.

  9. BTW, back to your welfare fascisticismings, wouldn’t the $4 windfall that the state receives be spent on actually paying welfare stipends? Why would the assumption be this money would go into the state coffer?

    I am starting to suspect Sullivans Disease.

  10. Of course, that assumes shame is something these wide-eyed ideologues can actually feel.

    Why should they be ashamed? They’re about to achieve what they’ve been working toward all their lives.

    There’s only one thing to do dudes (and dudettes).. Embrace the suck. I believe I’ve still got reinstatement rights at my old govmint job and — what can I say? — better to be the boot than the face.

    Okay, just kidding. I’d be a very benevolent tyrant.

  11. Engaged in a wee bit of hyperbole, no?

    No.

  12. Come to think of it a lot of Chicagoans made a lot of money under FDR, even if he rolled back their liquor monopoly. So why reference Lincoln, go put busts and portraits of Presidents Jackson, Grant, and FDR in the Oval Office to inspire Team Obama.

  13. It was Bob Marley who sang “emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds,” oh, won’t you help me sing.

    Your enslavers are your hard notions of an imagined good/bad binary. Capitalism – my capitalism! the one the dude I like so much waxes about of Fox News! it’s teh Good! Socialism/Communism – any and everything not teh Good!

    Whose asses were kicked by that empty-suitor-hopey-changer community organizer? Yours. Would it not be wise to understand more fully if not tactically adopt certain of this construct of community organizing? A quote from Sun Tzu comes to mind.

    The bedrock of democracy is populism. And I’ve never known a time when being too organized was a bad thing, politically speaking.

    I’d rather live in Sweden than most of the democracies in the world. Go figure why.

  14. I’d rather live in Sweden than most of the democracies in the world. Go figure why.

    Because you are a cowardly little fool who can’t handle the notion of real freedom.

  15. Go figure why.

    It’s not a particularly difficult equation.

  16. JeffG

    Looks like Obama will be signing the Pork-o-rama bill in Denver on Tuesday. And it will be all stage-managed to the nth degree… can’t have any hoi poloi that might not be too keen to see themselves as civil slaves show up

    The bill-signing, an unusual event outside of Washington, will be Tuesday at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science in City Park. The president also will give a speech about the economy.

    Attendance at the midday event is by invitation only, and all invitations have been distributed.

    CNN reported that a senior administration official cited a desire to get “away from the politics of Washington.”

  17. an imagined good/bad binary

    Nihilist and sociopath added to coward.

    I am not surprised.

  18. I’d rather live in Sweden than most of the democracies in the world. Go figure why.

    Hold up there, pilgrim! You have any idea how expensive drinking is in Sweden? And how much drinking you need to do there? The most boring country on God’s green earth, and that’s a fact.

  19. I’d rather live in Sweden than most of the democracies in the world. Go figure why.

    Hot Scandi women who like to engage in sex?

    The Scandanavian countries have moved away from socialism over the last decade and prospered accordingly. We are moving in the wrong direction.

  20. #

    Comment by B Moe on 2/15 @ 12:56 pm #

    Bush didn’t want to win he wanted to polish up the apple nice and pretty and rebuild the entire country….

    The parsnip level stupidity continues…

    Don’t think your lack of rebuttal isn’t duly noted and followed up with a scoffing “whatevah, moonshiner!” retort.

  21. Silver Whistle–Scandis know how to home brew and distill. Provided you aren’t caught driving drunk, it is all good.

    In fact, Poles and Russians used to go to Scandinavian countries, rent a car, get drunk, get arrested and get sent to co-ed jails, with great food, where you can earn the equivalent of $5 a day. It was like a vacation!

  22. Comment by Joe on 2/15 @ 1:18 pm #

    I’d rather live in Sweden than most of the democracies in the world. Go figure why.

    Hot Scandi women who like to engage in sex?

    Bingo for the hot box.

  23. And thor, do you dream of using your “mighty hammer” in your own personal Valhalla?

  24. Bengt Gustafsson was a terrific passer of the puck but the son-of-a-bitch could never get the hang of shooting to score. Obama’s early strength looks to be passing the buck and in the long-run, taking scores off the tally.

  25. Silver Whistle–Scandis know how to home brew and distill. Provided you aren’t caught driving drunk, it is all good.

    Oh, believe me, Joe, I know. I’d rather live in Norway any day of the week if the only choice was Sweden.

  26. Comment by Darleen on 2/15 @ 12:38 pm #

    At the risk of repeating myself: We Are All Fascists Now

    There’s no risk in the inevitable.

  27. Comment by Log Cabin on 2/15 @ 12:51 pm #

    The “hiding” of totalitarian impulses won’t last long. They have just gotten started. Free speech will be the next victim.

    Lefties do not accept dissent from the party line. All in the name of fairness, don’t you know?

    Well Axlerod let the mask slip this morning w/ Chris Wallace

  28. What we’ve witnessed is classic misdirection: spend 8 years yelling “fascist”

    Federal spending increased 50% during Bush’s 8 years in office.

    Does that qualify as Church of the Ever Expanding God State too?

    Or do these welfare changes, which amount to less than one week’s worth of Iraq war spending, qualify under a different accounting system?

  29. That’s FOX NEWS BAD BINARY, phreshone. Read a Russian poet. Learn to UNDERSTAND on the level of thor.

    Snore.

  30. Asked and answered a thousand times already, parsnip.

  31. Which seals your fate.

  32. My bad Jeff… “editing”… and I forgot Axelrod doesn’t speak for Barry… but he does write what goes on Barry’s teleprompter…

  33. I don’t really mind calling anything you want “fascism” just because you don’t like it. But you might want to stop using the whole “HEY LEFTIES, STOP COMPARING BUSH TO HITLER!!” The cognitive dissonance is getting to be a bit much.

  34. If the jackboot fits…

    Anyway, I’m guessing AJB hasn’t read Jonah’s book, and so doesn’t get the connection — which you’ll note I attributed to Rahm’s little candid remark.

    Doesn’t keep him from offering his uninformed opinion, though. Or voting while saddled by such ignorance.

    The greatest trick “progressives” ever played was to “empower” the uninformed into believing their opinions were just as valuable and “equal” to those who are informed.

    The fact that everyone is entitled to an opinion doesn’t make all opinions equal in value. A small but important distinction.

  35. Cruise didn’t realize he was being prescient by bringing out Valkyrie this year.


  36. Comment by Jeff G. on 2/15 @ 1:33 pm #

    That’s FOX NEWS BAD BINARY, phreshone. Read a Russian poet. Learn to UNDERSTAND on the level of thor.

    Snore.

    Yes, read a Russian poet. Remember when after Edichka-baby discovers his girlfriend is cheating on him he revenge rapes her on her kitchen floor only to discover that she likes it rough. That’s why she left him holding flowers and strayed with that brutish ape, for the hard and fast.

    You don’t get that sort’a dark irony with Hollywood endings. Only in Russia, baby. Get some.

  37. You need to watch more 70s movies, thor.

  38. The Visigoths have sacked the capitol and have extracted their tribute… and the masses shall be told there was much rejoicing…

  39. Go figure why.

    But you wont, will you? And why not? Because Uncle Sugar will not send you an SSDI check anymore.

  40. #

    Comment by Jeff G. on 2/15 @ 1:46 pm #

    You need to watch more 70s movies, thor.

    But I fancy acrostics.

  41. It’s worth noting, Jeff, which NRO does not, that welfare reform had the effect of pushing the child support industry into top gear: Making virtually anyone male financially responsible for virtually anyone female to have kids alone — or even to be accused in a courtroom or DDA’s office or domestic violence mill of baby-making with her — made the states enormous sums. The irony of reforming welfare by unfairly empowering an entire State industry that only resembled welfare while being in effect Constitution-voiding parental alienation, property theft, and federalized sexism has been the topic of countless discussions about individual rights since the Clinton years.

    “Welfare reform” thereby motivated both sides of the political fence. Statist Republicans ignored the obvious and unintended social effects and praised it for the net it finally threw over the drive-by father, while Socialist Democrats adored it for its propensity to “liberate” women by paying them — and their attorney, their family court judge, their deputy district attorney in charge of child support, their social worker, and their various clinicians — to destroy their childrens’ dad by nearly any means possible.

    My calculated guess is none of this will roll back under O! Why should it, or by what means would the State exchange one onerous power for another? The programs established under welfare’s Title IV-D will remain in place so that now states can not only keep these substantial incentives to create new child support cases and new single mothers in their portfolios, but now they don’t have to worry about messy impediments to their access to vast new revenues.

    In the other thread I linked to Stephen Baskerville’s latest piece on the tone and intent of the particularly nasty social governance that makes an industry out of gender discrimination. I alluded that this ideology must assume the form of a near-religion — it’d present quite well with another set of Roman columns. With what has been reported here today, we can see that that mentality simply breeds dependent voters and that it surely must do so by design.

    The Fifty-Two Percenters probably give little thought to the irony of the moniker. Aren’t we fortunate they vowed to treat us, who pay their way through a life of flawed character, practiced envy, and legal theft, with such care and compassion. Because, you know, populism is the bedrock of democracy and this ain’t about facism.

  42. The Fifty-Two Percenters probably give little thought to the irony of the moniker. Aren’t we fortunate they vowed to treat us, who pay their way through a life of flawed character, practiced envy, and legal theft, with such care and compassion. Because, you know, populism is the bedrock of democracy and this ain’t about facism.

    I work off the assumption that my annual gift to the IRS subsidizes the construction and maintenance of your stinky mud bunker, you Whoville 45-percenter.

  43. Don’t think your lack of rebuttal isn’t duly noted and followed up with a scoffing “whatevah, moonshiner!” retort.

    So what is different? The ridiculousness of your statement was obvious, and your response is too cliched to matter. You are a boring little squeak from the darkness.

  44. That’s no gift, you psychobabbler, that six bits is the moral obligation your church demands of you. And as I intentionally downsize in order to go increasingly off radar because government ownership will literally skyrocket past the private sector within the next couple years, I’ll be sure it stays that way.

    Because I’m a liberal, thor.

    I tried to warn you that linear thought wasn’t your forte. You didn’t listen. So: Stick to the madness. It entertains me.

  45. “Astute readers will recognize in that final formulation one of the tells of a fascistic regime.”

    Everybody on the bus!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/15/graham-nationalizing-bank_n_167048.html

    “This idea of nationalizing banks is not comfortable,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC). “But I think we’ve got so many toxic assets spread throughout the banking and financial community, throughout the world, that we’re going to have to do something that no one ever envisioned a year ago, no one likes. To me, banking and housing are the root cause of this problem. I’m very much afraid any program to salvage the banks is going to require the government… I would not take off the idea of nationalizing the banks.”

  46. Wrong blog again, meya? Imagine that.

  47. I’m an astute reader.

  48. The “hiding” of totalitarian impulses won’t last long. They have just gotten started. Free speech will be the next victim.

    I think they’re still in the preparation phase of this. It looks like they’re on a cycle of two-three days between Democrats saying something about the fairness doctrine or “accountability”. However, one of the recent comments came from the nominee for FCC Chairman, so it’s possible they’re going to move pretty quickly.

    I suspect they’re waiting for a dramatic shooting somewhere in order to start their assault on the 2nd.

  49. CNN reported that a senior administration official cited a desire to get “away from the politics of Washington.”

    It isn’t yet a month and the ‘politics of Washington’ are getting to him. Surprise, surprise – Washington isn’t Chicago, there isn’t one ‘strong man’ there – instead Washington has a lot of seperate power centers, and representatives from other power structures who will not take orders (but if suitably greased in cash, preferments, honors, and ego-rubs) will go along.

    President Fragile Flower Obama isn’t a weak horse – he is a weathervane that has always done what the local Patrons wanted done. Now, at the pinnacle, he sees many potential patrons and power-centers and doesn’t know which he should follow.

    Or another analogy – his internal compass has always followed the calls of the latest local political power. He has no internal ‘true north’ in him. Without that certain outside direction, he just spins about. Hence leaving Washington to sign the bill, or escaping from the White House to read for children in the first few weeks.

    Only, the President never really goes on vacation and he cannot actually get away from responsibility.
    The buck stops with you, Mr. Obama; you are the decider. Try doing that and embracing that role; otherwise it is going to be a long four years.

  50. I’d rather live in Sweden than most of the democracies in the world. Go figure why.

    Well, yeah. I’d rather live in Sweden than a democracy, too.

    Of course, I live in a republic, and would rather live here than in Sweden.

  51. “The greatest trick “progressives” ever played was to “empower” the uninformed into believing their opinions were just as valuable and “equal” to those who are informed”

    Didn’t Disraeli say public opinon is generally public sentiment?

    It seems awfully true these days.

  52. CNN reported that a senior administration official cited a desire to get “away from the politics of Washington.”

    Picked the wrong damned job, didn’t they?

  53. A “beneficial crisis” has been something long used by the European Union to expand their powers over national government …

    Alastair

  54. Where is the mass immigration to Sweden, apparently paradise on Earth?

  55. Oh, I’m chastised! I’d forgotten how this site is practically RENOWNED for its Lindsey Graham boosterism!

    Beyond that, watch meya frequently citing whatever R she can who gives cover to “social democracy.” Why, it’s almost as if that makes it okay!

  56. Add “What the average PW commenter thinks of Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)” to the ever growing list of things Meya is apparently unaware of.

  57. Rob Crawford: If they wanted to be able to go home and relax after a hard day’s work, they certainly did. The job is 24/7/52/4 – at least.

    Off-site signing of bills is usually done for some symbolic purpose – not just ‘to get out of Washington’.

  58. #52

    Heh.

  59. If the lefties, resident at PW and nationally, are so confident that the establishment of a welfare state was the agenda that Americans voting for the one! de facto endorsed, then why don’t they have the courage to have an Open!, Honest!, Transparent!, Post-Partisan! debate on it..?

    Why does it need to be hiiden amongst the provisions of the phony spendulus bill, of which only 20% actually is stimulus..?

    Why do they need the connivance of a trumped up crisis as cover for their overreach?

    And why do they feel the need to create an entire underclass reliant on big govenment and hence automatically a constituency of the corrupt and communistic Democrat party? I mean, if their ideas are so pure, truthful, self-evident, and congruent with the classical AMerican way, why the chicanery?

    This will come to the attention of the good folks of thus nation in due time, and then the backlash will be astounding…


  60. Comment by Techie on 2/15 @ 2:15 pm #

    Where is the mass immigration to Sweden, apparently paradise on Earth?

    Quite high. In Sweden immigrants enjoy rich and rewarding social welfare benefits which attracts immigrants like whiskey moonshine to ice.

    You’re a worldly guy, I can see that, Spanky.

  61. Dammit, people, don’t you realize we’re all in lockstep agreement? Sure, we pretend not to be, but that’s just an illusion. When Lindsey speaks, it’s as if he were voicing all our hidden thoughts. Get with the program!

  62. But I make no apologies for saying he is a good man. He is my President. He is our President. And while he hasn’t always done good, I do believe he is fundamentally a good man and a patriot who wants to make this country a better place.

  63. Comment by Bob Reed on 2/15 @ 2:24 pm #

    Why does it need to be hiiden amongst the provisions of the phony spendulus bill, of which only 20% actually is stimulus..?

    If the Bush tax cuts of 2001 were considered to stimulative, as it was argued by every drooling Republican, why wouldn’t the Obama tax cut be considered the same? They make up far more than 20% of his stimulus package, but I’m certain you know that.

    Bad rhetoric, Mr. Reed! I’m counting on better from you.

  64. Why does the one! need a weekend in Chicago? Isn’t camp David good enough for him? I guess there’s no one to “style and profile” for at the traditional Presidential retreat…

    What about the wasted fuel! And harm to gaia..?

    I don’t recall Booooooooooooosh! taking arbitrary and capricious “escapes” to Crawford, and the press was hardly fellating him like they are O!

    What’s the deal-io?

  65. And why do they feel the need to create an entire underclass reliant on big govenment and hence automatically a constituency of the corrupt and communistic Democrat party? I mean, if their ideas are so pure, truthful, self-evident, and congruent with the classical AMerican way, why the chicanery?

    They feel the need to create an entire underclass reliant on big government and hence by birth a constituency of the corrupt Socialist-Democrat party. FTFY. Never chalk up to incompetence what’s really just corruption.

  66. Baracky’s tax cut won’t be stimulative cause Baracky and his media particularly NPR and bitchlips AP propaganda slut Jeannine Aversa been screeching and squealing like castrated piggy pig pigs about how doomed and doomed we are and also we are doomed and I really don’t see anyone feeling very spendy anytime soon, less they’re stupid.

  67. thor,

    The Boooooooooosh! tax cuts were across the board, with a greater percentage cut for those at the lower end of the economic spectrum.

    Obama is going beyond that and increasing the earned income credit benefits. Which is essentially increasing the amount of money sent to folks who pay little or no tax currently…

    And please, don’t give me the well worn retort about the eeeeeeeevil rich! keeping sooooooo much more money than the folks in lesser brackets. You of all people know the difference between magnitudes and percentages…

  68. If the Bush tax cuts of 2001 were considered to stimulative, as it was argued by every drooling Republican, why wouldn’t the Obama tax cut be considered the same?

    If the Clinton-era congressional budget-balancing soothed the savage dryer-lint that is your person, as it was argued by your every drooling comment, why wouldn’t you consider the One Trillion Dollar Before Interest Obama-Pelosi Socialising-America Act of 2009 outrageous, you consistency-midget?

  69. Comment by JHoward on 2/15 @ 2:01 pm #

    That’s no gift, you psychobabbler, that six bits is the moral obligation your church demands of you. And as I intentionally downsize in order to go increasingly off radar

    Before you wear out your welcome on your neighbors’ WiFi resulting in your going message board dark, will you forward your P.O. box address to Jeff so that we might send you some cookies, alkaline batteries and books written by Russian poets?

    You see, Jeff, this is why the states need more unemployment money. Extending JHo’s blip on the radar is the right thing to do.

  70. I’ve sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. I didn’t want to do it; I felt I owed it to them.

    -Judge Smails to Danny Noonan

    Yep, that about sums it up.

  71. Well, let me know when you get your tickets.

    Total Immigration Rates: 62k (total from North and South America = 3,800)
    Net migration rates for 2004: +25k (That means that 37k people have decided to leave Paradise on Earth)

    (2004/2005 data)

    Now, that’s MASS migration if I’ve ever seen it.

    [Beyond these types of deportations, the country's exceptionally restrictive immigration and asylum policies have been criticized by the Red Cross, Save the Children, and the Swedish Church. Together with Swedish Pen (an organization of writers, authors, and journalists who defend the freedom of the press) these organizations hosted a "tribunal" in the fall of 2005 to shift public opinion toward more open policies.

    The current Social Democratic government's restrictive approach is meant to appease anti-immigrant opinion with the goal of preventing the rise of a popular protest party with anti-immigration politics as its principal platform. Yet the government must balance this with the political support it depends on from the Green Party and the Left Party, both of which disdain the ongoing erosion of humanitarian asylum and refugee policies. ]

    Embraced w/ Open arms………

    http://www.migrationinformation.org/USFocus/display.cfm?ID=406

    I’d hate for you to remain in hellish Florida.

  72. I told you you were funnier when you didn’t think, thor. You’re welcome. Keep it up.

  73. They make up far more than 20% of his stimulus package

    Precisely 22% according to the CBO. But what do they know, they work for the Democrats who control Congress…


  74. Comment by Bob Reed on 2/15 @ 2:36 pm #

    And please, don’t give me the well worn retort about the eeeeeeeevil rich! keeping sooooooo much more money than the folks in lesser brackets. You of all people know the difference between magnitudes and percentages…

    Ever hear of Mazlow’s hierarchy of needs? The poor and working poor spend their tax-cut monies on the lowest level.

    Magnitude that!

    Over-weight your portfolio in consumer staple stocks, you capitalist oinker!

  75. Go long on cigarettes and lottery tickets.

  76. Also you get a tax cut for buying a new car. Fuck you, Baracky. I’m not no goddamn comeondownyou’rethenextcontestant fatass what’s gonna run out and buy me a new car like I just won the goddamn lottery just cause you and your woman plopped your punk marxist asses in our White House and is thinking ok all y’all’s go buy cars now and be makin’ us look pretty. No, bitch. This little country may have a shit future when you’re done with it but I’m responsible for my own self and I have to make good choices now more than ever I think. So what I mean to say is no thank you.

  77. Al Czervik: He called me a baboon, he thinks I’m his wife.

    -Al Czervik

    Oops…

  78. Oh and thor,
    The 20% of the spendulus bill that I asserted was actual stimulus was the infrastructure spending line items…

    Just so you’d know that I wasn’t engaging in empty rhetoric, or knee-jerk contrarianism…

  79. And when the hell did we get a “Secretary of Taste”? What the fuck is up with that? Now we’re saddled with that worthless POS cabinet job, and I bet it’ll be harder to get rid of than the Secretary of Education, or Joe Biden.

  80. Well I would have a new car by now if it weren’t for that disappearing money thing.

  81. See, Sarah, you’ve got to prioritize. Me, I’ve decided to curtail my charitable giving.

  82. ,blockquote>#

    Comment by ThomasD on 2/15 @ 2:42 pm #

    They make up far more than 20% of his stimulus package

    Precisely 22% according to the CBO. But what do they know, they work for the Democrats who control Congress…

    http://tinyurl.com/acb7v5

    275/825 = 33%

    Keep up, people.

    My fav: http://tinyurl.com/7vqehh

  83. “But what do they know, they work for the Democrats who control Congress…”

    Seriously? Now the CBO is to be doubted?

  84. I’m sure that people will be buying brand-spanking new cars in droves, what with the recession and all.

    Flawless logic.

  85. Seriously? Now the CBO is to be doubted?

    For someone who swims in sarcasm, you don’t recognize it readily, do you, meya?

  86. I’m sure that people will be buying brand-spanking new cars in droves, what with the recession and all.

    ‘bammer’s tax cuts are gonna put between $8 and $13 a week into our pockets! Why, with that much crazy cash, I might be able to afford 4 or 5 gallons of fuel!

  87. That’s not sarcasm he’s swimming in, Jeff.

  88. #

    Comment by Bob Reed on 2/15 @ 2:51 pm #

    Oh and thor,
    The 20% of the spendulus bill that I asserted was actual stimulus was the infrastructure spending line items…

    Just so you’d know that I wasn’t engaging in empty rhetoric, or knee-jerk contrarianism…

    Tax cuts on top of a projected deficit are considered stimulus spending. Don’t you know your Reaganomic lingo?

    Even with your goofing down the definition of “infrastructure spending” you’re still moo-moo-ing 55% hard-vibrating stimulation.

  89. I dunno thor,

    I don’t think Mazlow would have considered cell phones, big screen TV’s, designer tennis shoes, car payments, and the like to be the lowest level of his hierarchy of needs…

    And for the record? I have no portfolio, or investments to speak of; just the fruits of my skill, labor, and service…

    I like to overweight my existential portfolio in concrete morality, personal charity, benevolence, forgiveness, empathy, responsibility, honesty, intelligence, and candor…

    How about you?

  90. As with thor’s lunatic partisanship, mey-ron, the CBO’s fundamental value lies not in it’s being a part of Congress and thereby its being quite eternally doubtable, but rather in it’s utility in tripping up partisan socialist hacks such as yourself whenever you worship government despite its factually disagreeing with said adoration.

    That you get neither tack is, likewise, as entertaining as thor’s various misadventures in reality.

  91. “For someone who swims in sarcasm, you don’t recognize it readily, do you, meya?”

    Hey some folks have gone off the deep end since November and specially since Jan 20th. Excuse me if I need to do a double-check every once in a while.

  92. Ooh, CNN and thormath says 33%

    WaPo says 22%, and also says your ObaMao promised 40%

    http://tinyurl.com/ckh3xg

  93. Also, that’s WaPo quoting CBO figures.

  94. So, nobody knows for sure?

  95. meya knows econ, techie, but not compound interest on national debt, that I know.


  96. Comment by Bob Reed on 2/15 @ 3:03 pm #

    I like to overweight my existential portfolio in concrete morality, personal charity, benevolence, forgiveness, empathy, responsibility, honesty, intelligence, and candor…

    How about you?

    No I don’t view my giving as such.

    I think it quite sanctimonious, in fact, to offer the hungry and in-need a scrap only when moved by the changing winds of benevolence.

    “I don’t mind stealing bread
    from the mouth of decadence
    But I can’t feed on the powerless
    when my cup’s already over-filled”

  97. So, nobody knows for sure?

    The odds that there’s an actual list, anywhere, of the spending in this POS approaches nil.

  98. happyfeet @62

    Your “[...]stimulative…bitchlips [...] been screeching and squealing [...]castrated piggy [...] doomed …doomed [...!]“- comment is disconcertingly stimulating.

    My hands are trembling as I write this. If I was Jeff, I wouldn’t know whether to frame a post around it, or ban you.

  99. Oops! Squealing piggy was @66. Ruined my exit.

  100. My hands are trembling as I write this.

    Steveaz, that says substantially more about you than it does about Happyfeets.

  101. thor,

    You need to look up benevolence I believe…

    I don’t see how a disposiion to do good is whim based or changing..?

    And the bastion of wignuttery WaPo says 22% tax cuts..? I say a bit kess than 200 Billion actualinfrastructure spending..? How does that add up to 55% of a bill that will cost morethan 3 trillion over the next 10 years..?

    Just a friendly suggestion, from your racist pal; c’est moi…

  102. But, I gotta thank thor for directing me to CNN, if only to see this on the front page.

    Sen. Lindsay Graham was blunter: “If this is going to be bipartisanship, the country’s screwed.”

    Now that’s a Lindsay Graham I can abide.

  103. I think it quite sanctimonious, in fact, to offer the hungry and in-need a scrap only when moved by the changing winds of benevolence.

    For which we have force motivated by politics. Thanks for finally boiling it all down, thor, even if you’re not nearly bright enough to know you had.

  104. 33% tax cuts plus 22% infrastructure spending equals 55%.

    I believe in a large allowance for sincerity of innocent intention, Bob.

    In my presence poor people need not feel guilt, black persons need not feel shame, homos need not quake with ass pain, even unintended prejudiced bigots need not suffer pangs from my snark-pointed arrows. It’s all good with me. Love is what I got.

  105. I don’t need to look up benevolence, my contextual usage is the well within the definitively agreed upon.

    Meaning maybe you should take your own advice.

  106. “The odds that there’s an actual list, anywhere, of the spending in this POS approaches nil.”

    Since it was being modified by handwritten notes shortly prior to the vote, it is more than likely still a “work in progress” even after being passed. Who could tell except the one doing the handwriting?

  107. I personally love the idea about a bill being “modified” after it’s been passed.

    It’s the new Living, Breathing Legislation.

  108. “Since it was being modified by handwritten notes shortly prior to the vote, it is more than likely still a “work in progress” even after being passed.”

    See Jeff, this is why i gotta do a check in every once in a while.


  109. Comment by JHoward on 2/15 @ 3:26 pm #

    I think it quite sanctimonious, in fact, to offer the hungry and in-need a scrap only when moved by the changing winds of benevolence.

    For which we have force motivated by politics. Thanks for finally boiling it all down, thor, even if you’re not nearly bright enough to know you had.

    If you desire defiance to the will of the American people – Mexico, Canada, Sweden, Tarawa – you have your options, OUTLAW!

  110. Stimulus: Love it or leave it.

    Stimulus: You don’t have to fall in love, you just have to fall in line.

  111. I think it quite sanctimonious, in fact, to offer the hungry and in-need a scrap only when moved by the changing winds of benevolence.

    Actually, my preferred charities — which I’ll still support, but nowhere near the levels I have — are for servicemen and their families and for seriously ill children. I highly recommend Give Kids the World for the latter.

    When lefties stop picking my pockets in the name of the poor, then I’ll be willing to voluntarily help the poor. So long as I’m forced to do it, you shouldn’t expect any more blood from this stone.

  112. If you desire defiance to the will of the American people – Mexico, Canada, Sweden, Tarawa – you have your options, OUTLAW!

    Why am I not surprised you forgot the Constitution?

  113. 33% tax cuts plus 22% infrastructure spending equals 55%.

    The expected $787 billion stimulus package will include:

    * $275 billion in tax cuts = 34.9 %
    * $141.6 billion for education
    * $112.1 billion for healthcare
    * $102 billion for welfare and unemployment benefits
    * $90 billion for infrastructure = 11.4
    * $58 billion on energy initiatives
    35 + 12 = 47


  114. Comment by Rob Crawford on 2/15 @ 3:49 pm #

    Actually, my preferred charities — which I’ll still support, but nowhere near the levels I have — are for servicemen and their families and for seriously ill children. I highly recommend Give Kids the World for the latter.

    When lefties stop picking my pockets in the name of the poor, then I’ll be willing to voluntarily help the poor. So long as I’m forced to do it, you shouldn’t expect any more blood from this stone.

    Wouldn’t that be totally irony-packed-cool if you wounded an American soldier whose job it was to bring you under heel of the power of the State?

    Go for it, mud bunker boy! Resist! The panopticon must be destroyed!

  115. And if you yank out the funeral director’s las vegas toy train@ 8 bil you get 10.3% of pork barrel bike paths

  116. Toooootally OT, but Roland Burris is presently consuming a shit sandwich in a live press conference. FNC.

  117. “if you wounded an American soldier whose job it was to bring you under heel of the power of the State?”

    the dear leader is going after Posse Comitatus

  118. Why am I not surprised you forgot the Constitution?

    Since when have Democrats cared about the Constitution?

  119. If you desire defiance to the will of the American people

    So the 47% of people who did not vote for this are not Americans anymore?

  120. “I won.” Barack Obama

  121. “I won.” Barack Obama

    you libtards have the maturity of a spoiled 12 yo.

  122. “I won.” Barack Obama

    Thanks for proving our point. Fool.

    Now start rambling about margins and derivatives to show what a hick I am.

  123. So the 47% of people who did not vote for this are not Americans anymore?

    Not under The New Democracy, Darleen. At least thor finally admitted what he’s been resisting saying for months: It’s really all about theft.

    Thanks for the report from the Hive, thor. Your utility is noted.

  124. So the 47% of people who did not vote for this are not Americans anymore?

    Nah — they just don’t represent “the will of the People”. Hell, in a candid moment, thor might even come out and say they’re “enemies of the People”.

    That crazy republic stuff? The natural rights of man? The freedom of conscience? Inoperative. It’s all about the Will of the People now, baby.

  125. Teh profound beauty of the quote can be found in the Constitution, you torture-me-Elmo.

  126. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

    Not in my Name.

  127. Teh profound beauty of the quote can be found in the Constitution, you torture-me-Elmo.

    Just not in the context you wish, slave.

  128. Teh profound beauty of the quote can be found in the Constitution, you torture-me-Elmo.

    If you’re talking about the phrase “the will of the people”, it’s no where in the Constitution.

  129. to thoroid and his ilk:

    When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    fu libtards

  130. We should place the “I Won” on parchment in a gilded frame, and 2, 4 or whenever years from now, when faced with political opposition from the Left, we can simply point at it.

    Obama will not allow us to go back to our lives unchanged. We should all learn to emulate The One Lightworker.

  131. “I bet you’re good at sucking cock.” Lamontyoubigdummy, rethuglidum extraordinaire

  132. “rethuglidum extraordinaire”

    ah yes the ted baxter keithoberdude school of politacal thought. watch out for those falling turkeys oh thoroid

  133. Thoroid… bought his knowledge at Balcor’s going out of business sale (and the products purchased were past their expiration date). Thinks he’s hitting homeruns when the infield fly rule is in effect… Stats aren’t even comparable to Mendoza, but he tries REAL hard…

  134. The face of the modern day Obama voter.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-88Il-4nby0

    The fact these people have been conditioned to think like that on purpose is a disgrace. Fuck you 52%

  135. I’m really looking forward to the day that Barky seizes thor’s trust fund.

    Assuming that doesn’t exist strictly in his imagination, that is….

  136. OK, I suspended trollhammer to see what router was responded to, and besides wishing I hadn’t…

    Does it strike anyone else as… odd… that whor is attacking someone who is completely absent from this thread? Hell, I can’t find a comment from LYBD in the two threads around this one.

  137. i wonder what back channel george s has with the messiah? haliburton is just so much swiss rolls now.

  138. I bet that’s why Baracky had to hang on to his blackberry.

  139. “I won.” Barack Obama

    “I two.” Joe Biden

    That never stops being funny.

  140. Great. Now we’re back to the war between people who work for a living and people who vote for a living.

  141. TSI: “back”? I was unaware it had ended.

  142. #140 alppuccino:
    “I won.” Barack Obama

    “I two.” Joe Biden

    That never stops being funny.

    What is funny is that I think the wanna-be Mayor Daley and his cronies in the White House* haven’t realized that every office holder in Congress can say the same thing, and the vast bulk can say it without being beholden to ‘da Mayor’. Certainly the guys and gals from, say, Pennsylvania, aren’t beholden to the White House for their offices, nor do they answer to Chicago. Gonna be fun!

    *who is trying to play ‘da Mayor’ and who is the crony? stay tuned and you may find out!

  143. Marc Ambinder at Andy Sullivan’s Atlantic says…

    Before we get into the details, a word about the politics: a number of conservatives and even liberals have written to me wondering why the GOP isn’t making more of a fuss about this. The answers are fairly simple: they want to avoid being seen as poor-people bashers, they know that Americans still associate welfare with minorities, and there are different sensitivities they must consider when making political claims about the priorities of the first black president.

    He says that so matter of factly like he’s not a racist. But he is I think. A really ugly racist what is an enthusiastic proponent of herding black people back onto welfare where they will be safe and warm cause of a “mini-depression” what our dipshit president is set on exacerbating and extending so he can more better not let it go to waste. If Republicans venture criticism, Ambinder finds it reasonable, and really sort of duh, to think Baracky and his media could simply scream racist at them until they shut up. That’s kind of sickening I think, but that’s Andy Sullivan’s Atlantic for you.

  144. The left is in the businesss of minority herding so the idea that attacking this idiotic rollback of welfare reform will change the narrative they’re so invested in is insane. These are the people who drone on endlessly every four years about how lily white the Republican convention is and then in ’00 when the Republicans bent over backwards to change that they shifted to droning on about what a charade it was. They need minorities to vote in a solid bloc just as they need them ghettoized in ready-made Dem congressional districts so their investment is the same regardless of the rhetoric Republicans inspire at any given moment.

  145. Yes, but I was sort of looking at the intentionalism parts. When Republicans criticize welfare, what they mean is…

    Marc Ambinder at Andy Sullivan’s Atlantic seems really comfortable with that game is all I’m saying.

  146. I know what you mean. All I’m saying is that as long as we refuse to play the game with the same kind of petty emotionalism that they employ we are in the same position either way. Only, by keeping our mouths shut we’re painted with the standard dishonest liberal brush and millions of poor families will have a harder time clawing their way up from the bottom. I don’t see the honor in engaging in cowardice here.

  147. I agree. Cowardice about criticizing Baracky’s robust expansion of welfare is silly and gratuitous for people what are not named Arlen. And Mr. Kaus what Mr. Reynolds linked seems to think so too.

  148. Two years until 2010. Most of the voting electorate was alive to vote in the 1970’s.

    Seniors are about to not be an economic power bloc any more. Just another slice of panicked voters.

    Obama isn’t trying to fix anything. He doesn’t believe in fixing. He’s just living the revolutionary’s dream. He’s in at the end of the Establishment.

    Fuck fixing anything. Left Heaven is a TAKING IT ALL DOWN.

    Fuck all if they care what comes next.

    And he’s right.

    He won.

  149. Shame was the first thing put in the crosshairs by the left.

  150. “Along the way, he sweeps away self-serving liberal and progressive myths, and recovers the true roots of progressive/liberal politics — in the deification of the state as the instrument of utopian aspirations, the same dynamic of 20th century fascism.”

    -Bruce Thornton

  151. “Comment by thor on 2/15 @ 12:52 pm #

    Astute readers will recognize in that final formulation one of the tells of a fascistic regime.

    Engaged in a wee bit of hyperbole, no?”

    No, whore, seeing as how you’re a fascist through and through, you should recogize the sysmptons.

    After all, that tiny mustache you draw under your nose with your own feces is a dead givaway.

  152. What’s the problem guys, Chicago is a utopia. If you guys would just calm down and cheerlead me like everyone else is doing I can proceed to turn your slice of America into Chicago’s West Side.

  153. Hi stupid. Now go put your combat boots on and take a nap.

  154. “Comment by thor on 2/15 @ 1:21 pm #

    Comment by Joe on 2/15 @ 1:18 pm #

    I’d rather live in Sweden than most of the democracies in the world. Go figure why.

    Hot Scandi women who like to engage in sex?

    Bingo for the hot box.”

    As if you haven’t paid for it all your life, you despicable toad.

  155. Comment by thor on 2/15 @ 4:11 pm #

    “I won.” Barack Obama”

    Fuck you, N. O’Brain.

  156. We men always end up paying for the nookie, boy-slut.

    Now lay your head down and dream of a grassy field full of soldier boys marching naked wearing nothing but shiny combat boots.


  157. Comment by N. O’Brain on 2/15 @ 7:31 pm #

    Comment by thor on 2/15 @ 4:11 pm #

    “I won.” Barack Obama”

    Fuck you, N. O’Brain.

    You translate Obama so well, ya little turd kisser.

  158. Precisely 22% according to the CBO. But what do they know, they work for the Democrats who control Congress…

    275/825 = 33%

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but the CBO doesn’t score it that way because the tax credit in the bill exceeds the entire tax liability – payroll and income – of a fairly large swath of the recipients. In other words, it’s called a “tax cut” but it’s really just handing out other people’s money to folks who never earned it.

  159. How would you know who earns what, boner groper.

  160. “Comment by thor on 2/15 @ 7:27 pm #

    Hi stupid. Now go put your combat boots on and take a nap.”

    Hi, plagiarist, you’re not good enough, or original enough, to lick the sand from my sons combat boots.

    You make Corky the Retard look like a fucking genius, cocksucker.

    Now go wipe the obama from your chin.

  161. “Comment by thor on 2/15 @ 7:39 pm #

    How would you know who earns what, boner groper.”

    Go wipe the obama fr4om your chin.

    It’s…unseemly.

  162. Jeffersonian good luck getting that information anywhere outside of the right wing nutosphere. Good Morning America is still talking about my pecs and Nightline is running a special this week on a plane crash.

  163. “Comment by thor on 2/15 @ 7:32 pm #

    We men always end up paying for the nookie, boy-slut.”

    I don’t.

    whore.

  164. N. O’Brain thor never gets any on his chin, he swallows. FYI

  165. “Now lay your head down and dream of a grassy field full of soldier boys marching naked wearing nothing but shiny combat boots.”

    Pro-jec-tion.

    Dood, you’re despicable.

  166. “Comment by Obama on 2/15 @ 7:42 pm #

    N. O’Brain thor never gets any on his chin, he swallows. FYI”

    Ugh, but….

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!1!!!!!!

  167. You just so wish you were a soldier, P’brain, so you could also obey Obama’s command.

    Now go lay your head on your pillow and dream of performing a sloppy South Philly salad toss.

  168. I needs me good seed.

  169. “Now go lay your head on your pillow and dream of performing a sloppy South Philly salad toss.”

    Does that make sense to anyone here?

    Dood, not only are you despicable, you’re an unoriginal, imitative retarded marmoset.

  170. “Comment by Sarah Palin on 2/15 @ 7:46 pm #

    I needs me good seed.:

    Nice try, whore, but you’re still an asshole.

  171. An unoriginal, derivative asshole.

  172. Ah, well, I’m tired and cockslapping thor is becoming boring. See ya’ll later.

  173. Pointing out the despicableness only proves it made sense to you, salad-boy.

    Now go whisper your awful desires into a lonesome hobo’s brown eye, ya bum stabber.

  174. Nothing to say about my bit of data, Thor?

  175. Does it strike anyone else as… odd… that whor is attacking someone who is completely absent from this thread?

    Nope.

    OTOH, lillehammer is a big W fan, so maybe it’s a preemptive strike.

  176. #

    Comment by N. O’Brain on 2/15 @ 7:41 pm #

    “Comment by thor on 2/15 @ 7:32 pm #

    We men always end up paying for the nookie, boy-slut.”

    I don’t.

    whore.

    I wouldn’t assume a Log Cabin rethuglidum would, ya rump bronco boy.

  177. Anyone else taken by how unnatural it seems when Thor tries to come across like an alpha male? I picture Harvey Fierstein in The Birdcage when Robin Williams is coaching him to be convincing as a man. Or the Dorky Hmong kid in the barber shop in Gran Torino.

  178. “Comment by Obama on 2/15 @ 7:26 pm #

    What’s the problem guys, Chicago is a utopia. If you guys would just calm down and cheerlead me like everyone else is doing I can proceed to turn your slice of America into Chicago’s West South Side.”

    FTFY

  179. Comment by Abe Froman on 2/15 @ 8:00 pm #

    Anyone else taken by how unnatural it seems when Thor tries to come across like an alpha male?

    Hi mule. Anyone else notice how all I have to do is raise my hand to make this little troll bray?


  180. Comment by Jeffersonian on 2/15 @ 7:55 pm #

    Nothing to say about my bit of data, Thor?,/blockquote>

    Honestly, no. I’m not into jealous raptures.

  181. Hi mule. Anyone else notice how all I have to do is raise my hand to make this little troll bray?

    He could say the same thing, really.

  182. Honestly, no. I’m not into jealous raptures.

    It’s accurate. So how do you feel about feel about giving tax cuts to those who do don’t pay taxes? How is that different from welfare?

  183. Dude you’re like a booming voice in a midget. A woman in a suit and tie. It’s like someone gave you a book on how to sound like a man.

  184. Comment by Jeffersonian on 2/15 @ 8:13 pm #

    He could say the same thing, really.

    Do you call yourself Jerffersonian because on the night you were conceived there could have been four fathers?


  185. Comment by Jeffersonian on 2/15 @ 8:15 pm #

    Honestly, no. I’m not into jealous raptures.

    It’s accurate. So how do you feel about feel about giving tax cuts to those who do don’t pay taxes? How is that different from welfare?

    Maybe you own a sub-chapter S corp and you reported a loss for the year but worked full-time and paid lots of other taxes, such as payroll taxes for your employees.

    Genius, you are.

  186. Did you look up benevolence yet?

    be·nev·o·lence
    Pronunciation: bə-ˈnev-lən(t)s, -ˈne-və-
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    1: disposition to do good
    2 a: an act of kindness b: a generous gift

    I think your assetion that this is a fluctuating character trait is mistaken…

    Don’t you have the character to admit a mistake..?

    Be a man; know you’re limitations…

  187. Of course, one of mine is spelling after drinking so much red wine!

  188. Those who would rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul.

    -George Bernard Shaw

  189. It’s like someone gave [thor] a book on how to sound like a man.

    “We’re going through!” The Commander’s voice was like thin ice breaking. He wore his full-dress uniform, with the heavily braided white cap pulled down rakishly over one cold gray eye. “We can’t make it, sir. It’s spoiling for a hurricane, if you ask me.” “I’m not asking you, Lieutenant Berg,” said the Commander. “Throw on the power lights! Rev her up to 8500! We’re going through!” The pounding of the cylinders increased: thor-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa. The Commander stared at the ice forming on the pilot window. He walked over and twisted a row of complicated dials. “Switch on No. 8 auxiliary!” he shouted. “Switch on No. 8 auxiliary!” repeated Lieutenant Berg. “Full strength in No. 3 turret!” shouted the Commander. “Full strength in No. 3 turret!” The crew, bending to their various tasks in the huge, hurtling eight-engined Navy hydroplane, looked at each other and grinned. “The Old Man’ll get us through,” they said to one another. “The Old Man ain’t afraid of hell!”…

    “Not so fast! You’re driving too fast!” said ZonoShinji. “What are you driving so fast for?”

    “Hmm?” said LilleHammer. He looked at his wife, in the seat beside him, with shocked astonishment. She seemed grossly unfamiliar, like a strange woman who had yelled at him in a crowd. “You were up to fifty-five,” she said. “You know I don’t like to go more than forty. You were up to fifty-five.” LilleHammer drove on toward Waterbury in silence, the roaring of the SN202 through the worst storm in twenty years of Navy flying fading in the remote, intimate airways of his mind. “You’re tensed up again,” said ‘ZonoShinji. “It’s one of your days. I wish you’d let Dr. Renshaw look you over.”

  190. Maybe you own a sub-chapter S corp and you reported a loss for the year but worked full-time and paid lots of other taxes, such as payroll taxes for your employees.

    Genius, you are.

    Sorry, thor, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. Carrying forward previous years’ losses would be scored as an actual tax cut. What we’re talking about here is a simple, refundable tax credit for taxes that were never paid.

    A – How is that stimulative, and
    B – If this is stimulative, what isn’t?

  191. That was poignant about the drive to Waterbury.

  192. Those who would rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul.

    -George Bernard Shaw

    Especially when Paul is too stupid to wonder why the thieves would bother cutting him in on the deal afterward.

    I hope all of Barky’s voters enjoy that extra $13/week.

  193. Especially when Paul is too stupid to wonder why the thieves would bother cutting him in on the deal afterward.

    It’s the essence of a good con, SBP: You don’t try to gull the mark with an innocent come-on, you make him think he’s in on the screw.

  194. Knobrain really gets old.

  195. Especially when Paul is too stupid to wonder why the thieves would bother cutting him in on the deal afterward.

    The analysis of said group never gets that deep. They get a check from Ol’ Honest O! and everything is golden. Never occurs to them where the money comes from. Just keep voting D.


  196. Comment by cynn on 2/15 @ 8:53 pm #

    Knobrain really gets is so old that he eats cuttlefish while watching the CBS Evening News.

    FTFY!

  197. Quit beggin’ me to go Celine on your ass, guinsPen.

  198. Comment by Bob Reed on 2/15 @ 8:30 pm #

    Did you look up benevolence yet?

    be·nev·o·lence
    Pronunciation: bə-ˈnev-lən(t)s, -ˈne-və-
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    1: disposition to do good
    2 a: an act of kindness b: a generous gift…

    I think your assetion that this is a fluctuating character trait is mistaken…

    It’s the object of the verb “moved,” actually. Replace benevolence with generosity if it helps to clarify the meaning of my intention.

  199. “But it’s on the table
    The fire is cooking
    And they’re farming babies
    While slaves are working
    Blood is on the table
    And the mouths are choking
    But I’m growing hungry”

  200. whether this savings is in the form of paying debt or simply bank deposits — its still not new spending.

    I see the concept of fractional reserve banking is a mystery to you.

    Moron.

  201. Spending money won’t solve this problem.

    Spending money we don’t have, definitely won’t solve this problem.

    The cure for the market is to back off of the credit, individuals and governments, and save as much as possible.

    The current govplan is like trying to get a turtle to stick his head out of his shell by digging around in the hole with a pen knife and will have similar results as well.

  202. stimulus just for the sake of stimulus is functionally retarded I think. It’s for sorta simple people I think who are dazzled by things like pachinko and don’t understand open systems and entropy very well. These people are those ones what are frequently disappointed. People you’ve likely frequently heard saying “aw shucks” or “dagnabbit.” Those ones.

  203. Criky!

  204. Suffice it to say, meya, you and I will never agree on this. However, you are the only person on this board to argue in favor of this “Stimulus” in terms other than the puerile rants about W and the rethuglicans. While I find your arguments unpersuasive, you are still head and shoulders above parsnip, thor, et al. I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

  205. Meya fails to understand the root of the economic problem in the same way that the President does–which is wholely unsurprising.

    The problem with the econmy is not a lack of economic activity. At least not yet it isn’t.

    Stimulation in the form of getting people to shop more, won’t help because that’s not the problem. Spending is down, but not appreciably so, and January’s numbers are generally up from December–not a trend, perhaps a blip, but still hopeful and nowhere near “worst since the Great Depression.”

    The problem is a global addiction ot credit. Credit has a cycle like most things, with money being alternately easy and dear. Money has been easy for so long though, through artificial manipulation of the markets predominately by governments, for so long, many beleive that that is how it is supposed to be. Businesses have developed models that require it.

    Now in an effort to force the credit market to open up, they’ve lowered interest rates when they should have raised them and passed this abortion of a stimulus bill.

    The market is a box of sweating dynamite, but the President and Congress are standing on it with jackhammers trying to force it open.

  206. what we should so then is borrow two trillion dollars and just say fuck it cause we won hahahahaha

  207. “Spending money won’t solve this problem.”

    Who is spending whose money is the unaddressed factor.

    This whole stimulus plan resembles identity theft.

  208. oh. *do* I meant. I’m going to go home I think. I should eat something.

  209. not in my name?

  210. In my name then, feets, go ahead and go home and eat something.

  211. okay. I will. I have buffalo burgers and that sounds good. It’s super creepy here anyway. It must be a mood thing. Usually it’s not this creepy.

  212. hf, the links are to those commercials that have the voice of the thief speaking from the body of the victim.

    I figure on this bill, we got wacked and someone else is spending our life savings. Bad enough. Trying to make me smile and say I like it, worse.

  213. I have buffalo burgers and that sounds good.

    Eat me.

  214. #

    Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 2/15 @ 11:34 pm #

    whether this savings is in the form of paying debt or simply bank deposits — its still not new spending.

    I see the concept of fractional reserve banking is a mystery to you.

    Moron.

    It’s all too evident that asset preservation through available vehicles such as trusts is a total fuckin’ mystery to you, herr white peasant.

  215. Comment by meya on 2/15 @ 11:08 pm

    give a man a fiver and he’ll feed himself one day, teach a man how to earn a fiver and he’ll feed himself a lifetime

    get a clue, meya, “need” is not a blank check on the ability of earners. What Obama/Pelosi/Reid are doing in the name of Change is immoral.


  216. Comment by RTO Trainer on 2/15 @ 11:54 pm #

    Meya fails to understand the root of the economic problem in the same way that the President does–which is wholely unsurprising.

    The problem with the econmy is not a lack of economic activity. At least not yet it isn’t.

    Stimulation in the form of getting people to shop more, won’t help because that’s not the problem. Spending is down, but not appreciably so, and January’s numbers are generally up from December–not a trend, perhaps a blip, but still hopeful and nowhere near “worst since the Great Depression.”

    The problem is a global addiction ot credit. Credit has a cycle like most things, with money being alternately easy and dear. Money has been easy for so long though, through artificial manipulation of the markets predominately by governments, for so long, many beleive that that is how it is supposed to be. Businesses have developed models that require it.

    Now in an effort to force the credit market to open up, they’ve lowered interest rates when they should have raised them and passed this abortion of a stimulus bill.

    The market is a box of sweating dynamite, but the President and Congress are standing on it with jackhammers trying to force it open.

    Most everything you’ve stated is a lie.

    Link those Dec.-Jan. sales numbers, clueless liar. This hick’s blip I gotta see.

  217. C’mon G.I. Fuckin’ Liar, post that link.

    I ain’t talkin’ to your look-bunnies-wifey, it’s all about you, Texas fool.

    Do you find the telling the truth harder than laying on your belly pulling a trigger at firing range targets?

    I bet you do; cue the banjo music.

  218. “I see the concept of fractional reserve banking is a mystery to you.”

    Savings can be lent out — which is why its so important to fix our banks — But so can the income that someone is realizing based on someone else’s expenditure. The point is you’ve added another round of spending and activity to that money. Think of the difference: from me->to bank->lent out. vs. From me->to grocery store ->to pay salaries -> to bank -> lent out. In the second scenario, money has more velocity.

    “The cure for the market is to back off of the credit, individuals and governments, and save as much as possible.”

    Credit isn’t the problem. Illiquidity and insolvency are. Lending to people who can’t pay back and leveraging this into instruments we can’t price is bad.

    “give a man a fiver and he’ll feed himself one day, teach a man how to earn a fiver and he’ll feed himself a lifetime”

    Yeah that’s the distinction between stimulus and investment. One thing can be both — No reason why you can’t pay the salary of the person who teaches a man how to earn a fiver with that fiver. That gets you both, but they may not have the same stimulus effect for that fiver you spent.

    “get a clue, meya, “need” is not a blank check on the ability of earners. What Obama/Pelosi/Reid are doing in the name of Change is immoral.”

    Yeah i’ve also addressed how whether things like food stamps are immoral is different than their stimulus effect. Someone up above asked about stimulus, and so I told him. Don’t really feel like lectures on morality.

  219. Caught you square in the center of your Wranglers, huh hick.

    You ain’t trolling the Soldier of Fortune message boards, you’re on PW.

    Make fuckin’ sense or shut the fuck up, Texas.

  220. But the best so far has been this:

    “The cure for the market is to back off of the credit, individuals and governments, and save as much as possible.”

    So good.

  221. You’d think they were turning Japanese, turning Japanese, turning Japanese, I really think so, or maybe at least they’d know the reference.

  222. C’mon you wall of weasel warts, talk some real-world econ, and add something better than that weak snark-fu you’ve reduced yourselves to in your latest posts.

    Jeff has to be ashamed of his posse at this point.

  223. Thor cracks me up. His macho posturing is like being barked at by a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. You know his toy dog bite can’t draw blood and that deep down he’d rather be on the couch with his face nuzzling his master’s crotch.

  224. The only King Charles I care about kicked a lot of ass before being trapped beyond his supply lines by Peter the Great, retardlican.

    I’d fuck-up you and your pick-up truck, ya dick-in-hand howdy boy. I got your mud flaps right here.

  225. I can’t imagine you really for real care about that particular King Charles one just all that much. Kings generally speaking are teh suck I think. I couldn’t name you a king what I would be at all displeased if great misfortune befell upon.

  226. Can you say “befell upon” like that? That seems awkward now that I look at it.

  227. The spirit of righteousness has befallen upon the crest of Barack Obama.

    And he’s still young enough to dance funky-like on Soul Train.

    We are a blessed nation.

    We can’t feed on the powerless.

  228. Yup. Definitely awkward.

  229. Meya, I understand what you’re saying, but it’s like saying the solution to a hangover is to stay drunk. What you’re prescribing isn’t stimulus, but reinflation of the same bubble that has us in the position we’re in today. Japan spent trillions of dollars in just the way you urge us to, and all they got for it was a debt that is approaching twice their GDP. The solution for them, as it is for us, was to let the free market write down the value of non-performing debt and to punish – through the discipline of the market – those who took it on foolishly.

    People are seeing the folly of excessive debt today, that why savings rates are going up, that’s why companies are hoarding capital. The market is working, and Congress should let it.

  230. I might amend my response above to say that if the monies spent on “stimulus” were truly for investments that would generate enough revenue to cover the expected interest on the spending, plus a surplus to draw down the principal of the expenditures then they might make sense. There are projects out there like that, but they aren’t part of this package.

  231. Comment by Jeffersonian on 2/16 @ 1:33 am #

    The solution for them, as it is for us, was to let the free market write down the value of non-performing debt and to punish – through the discipline of the market – those who took it on foolishly.

    But the free-market couldn’t do that without collapsing most of our banks and investment banks, Bears Stearns-IndyMac-Lehman Bro.s-what!

    Another of the clueless little r-wingy tribesmen with conveniently short memories.

    BTW, Japan looks to be doing OK right now, no?

  232. Jeffersonian, I don’t the you understand the stimulative power of food stamps. Let’s review.

    Yo! Boss. We gettin low on Ho Hos.

    Already ordered more.

    Ok.

  233. Japan’s economy shrunk by like 10%.

  234. It’s unimaginable, Japan’s dire economy. Cause they made bad choices is why.

  235. But the free-market couldn’t do that without collapsing most of our banks and investment banks, Bears Stearns-IndyMac-Lehman Bro.s-what!

    Another of the clueless little r-wingy tribesmen with conveniently short memories.

    So? That much more business for the smart operators to pick up in the aftermath, thor. “Buying opportunities” is the term I think you used.

    BTW, Japan looks to be doing OK right now, no?

    Well, their GDP shrank on an 12.7% annualized basis last quarter. Is that “OK?” And it only turned around in the early ’00s after the Japanese government exhausted itself and let the most egregious zombies die off. Like some of our stupider banks and other institutions need to now (read: Citi, BoA, Freddie, Fannie)

  236. oh. That should have been *think* you… I’ve been doing that all day.

  237. Jeffersonian, I don’t the you understand the stimulative power of food stamps. Let’s review.

    Yo! Boss. We gettin low on Ho Hos.

    Already ordered more.

    Ok.

    Pretty much it, ‘feet.

  238. Nobody gives a fuck if you don’t get it, pal.

    Marked-to-market, what! Below OTS minimum capital requirement, what! Tier 1 core capital ratio, what! Inability to raise capital from the private sector, what!

    You have no clue as to how deep into a mountain of shit you idiots drove our banking sector into, and now you don’t understand anything but robber-baron econ, please, me-not-get-fucked-long-time-by-you, sailor.

    On the back of moderated Socialism and regulated Capitalism this country will be forge a new way. And you can go fuck yourself if you don’t like it.

  239. What did our economy shrink by on a annualized GDP basis (and it’s GDP estimate I remind you, I hope those GDP revisions don’t come as a surprise to ya, winger)

  240. Our two trillion dollar lottery ticket-holding pimp in chief don’t know nothing about no moderation I don’t think.

  241. That sounds mean I know but he’s just so trashy.

  242. “The only King Charles I care about kicked a lot of ass before being trapped beyond his supply lines by Peter the Great, retardlican.

    I’d fuck-up you and your pick-up truck, ya dick-in-hand howdy boy. I got your mud flaps right here.”

    yap yap yap goes the lap dog. Why don’t you just accept that you’re a beta male and save us all the trouble of having to endure your make-believe manliness.

  243. Oh, I get it, Thor, trust me. I’ve seen your utopia up close and personal. Another brilliant socialist convinced he could collectivize society on a “social justice” model and it would purr like a kitten. But as Bacon would put it, one cannot command the ends without enduring the means.

    Oh, and mark-to-market isn’t a mossback invention, but one of your southpaw creations. I think it’s madness, but that’s pretty much standard for planners like you. I see lotsa buying ops out there when those supposedly-worthless mortgages and properties hit the market, eh? But if you and your bond-holding pals get it jammed up your asses, I won’t complain.

  244. Hey, junior Jeffersonian, none of those cute little recent bank mergers (pick-ups, as you like to call them) would have or could have happened without government intervention, meaning the government had to inject cash into the deals.

    There’s not enough private capital to fund the cleaning up of these mistakes, ya butthole. It’s gonna take the Treasury printing money.

    You’re so stupid. And that’s why America is where it’s at, is it not, because of idiots like you who read Ayn Rand fantasies and listen to Wush Wimbaugh and then think you have it all figured out?

    Seethe, foaming from the ass, nobody cares. We punted your party.


  245. Comment by Abe Froman on 2/16 @ 2:05 am #

    yap yap yap goes the lap dog. Why don’t you just accept that you’re a beta male and save us all the trouble of having to endure your make-believe manliness.

    Gee, Abe, I’d say from the results of the recent Presidential election I’m politically on top of you, I’ve fully mounted you, driving your head to and fro by the bit and reigns.

    What’cha gonna do, you can’t even filibuster, faggot.

    Who is the beta, again? Yeah, maybe jam some beta-blockers in your holes to keep from being ridden hard and hung to dry like a $2-hag.

  246. Hey, junior Jeffersonian, none of those cute little recent bank mergers (pick-ups, as you like to call them) would have or could have happened without government intervention, meaning the government had to inject cash into the deals.

    True, and all the more reason to oppose the (insofar as they were creatures of intervention).

    And no, Thor, America is where it’s at because “socialists of all parties” thought they could create an infinite amount of fiat money, borrow it into existence and declare it had value because they said it did. We’re here because two stupid administrations pumped up the residential housing market far beyond where any sane person would because of woozy ideas of social justice (why no bubble in commercial real estate, hmm?)

    I’m not seething a bit, amigo. I’ve got enough hard money around to weather the storm. Do you?

  247. I think The One should punt Gibbs and hire thor as spokescreep. Thor’s got this administration’s vibe down pat.

  248. You must not follow trends in commercial leasing rates.

    I have enough money.

    This had nothing to do with social justice, free-market mouseketeer. Speculative bubbles begin and end with greed and fear. Don’t you listen at all to your hero, Mr. Greenspan?

    This economy is going to take a lot of government intervention to clean up and cliche-babbling waterheads like you and those hick-Senators from the Toyota states won’t have a meaningful say for a long, long, long time.

  249. This speculative bubble began, and ended, with government quotas, bright boy.

  250. Does anyone really think there’s a flag-pin-fuckin’ rethuglidum in America that can raise anywhere near the amount of campaign contributions that Obama can?

    He might buy a third term. Obama doesn’t simply walk on water, he farts hurricanes!

  251. “Gee, Abe, I’d say from the results of the recent Presidential election I’m politically on top of you, I’ve fully mounted you, driving your head to and fro by the bit and reigns.

    What’cha gonna do, you can’t even filibuster, faggot.

    Who is the beta, again? Yeah, maybe jam some beta-blockers in your holes to keep from being ridden hard and hung to dry like a $2-hag.”

    Wow. More yapping from the lap dog. I do appreciate the exhaustive effort you put into penning your manly insults and I can only imagine the kind of quality escapism it affords you. Kind of like girls who (thankfully) go all out to dress like whores on Halloween. This is the equivalent of you playing drag in a cabaret, only for you the unnatural attire is masculinity.


  252. Comment by Jeffersonian on 2/16 @ 2:35 am #

    This speculative bubble began, and ended, with government quotas, bright boy.

    America reached its quota on WASPy hicktarded Presidents, eh.

    Did you graduate magna cum laude from Harvard Law? Think Obama might’a stole you seat?

  253. You come to PW to read Jeff but you stay for the red-state-greaser grinding.

    I’m starting to buy some stocks. How can one resist all the $2-dollar blue chips in the going out of business bin?

    And don’t forget TRF; it’s lookin’ mighty cheap.

    Bye, capitalist wanna-beez.

  254. It was Nathan Lane, btw.

    In Birdcage.

    Learning to be a man.

  255. Careful, Abe, thor has been hit in the face thousands of times.

  256. Maybe if you threw a Nerf ball at me when I wasn’t looking and then turned and ran for your life maybe you’d hit me, Bmoe, just maybe, if you don’t throw like a girl, that is.

  257. The Fed must raise interst rates now (4% tomorrow and announce planns to make that 8% over the next 18 to 14 months depending on conditions) and help encourage people to save, not spend. This will also encourage consumers to back off the use of credit, which will prevent increasing the supply of long term loan obligations as well as stemming inflation now, rather than let it get wildly out of control first (at which point teh Fed WILL increase interest rates, but only as a reaction to a new crisis*). There will be time for buying later I’d think.

    *and maybe that’s the current plan

  258. Amazing. thor has a whole evening to himself in which to befoul another thread and in doing so rushes right past the same thing he’s missed countless times before.

    Which is how we got into this mess.

    As with the blind meya, that answer confounds thor because he never, ever asks the question. RTO hinted at it, thor, and you proceeded instead to pee on the walls again. Nicely done.

    The problem is a global addiction to credit. Credit has a cycle like most things, with money being alternately easy and dear. Money has been easy for so long though, through artificial manipulation of the markets predominately by governments, for so long, many believe that that is how it is supposed to be. Businesses have developed models that require it.

    I await thor’s next solo pissing contest. The champee’n of markets doesn’t understand monetary systems, RTO. I guess you can lead a dependent to “liquidity” but you can’t make her think: The problem, thoirre and meya, as I’ve been telling you, is systemic. You just don’t have the minds for it.

  259. “Comment by thor on 2/16 @ 2:37 am #

    Does anyone really think there’s a flag-pin-fuckin’ rethuglidum….”

    The yap dog reached the end of his leash.

    Pitiful, really.

  260. Think of the difference: from me->to bank->lent out.

    Yeah, that money just disappears once it’s “lent out”. None of it goes into capital investment or paying salaries.

    Stupid bint.

  261. I mean, what do you think happens to money that’s “lent out”? Do the borrowers b ury it in the back yard? Convert it into cash and burn it?

    The fact that you think the money just disappears after the first round of being “lent out” shows that you do, indeed, fail to understand the concept of fractional reserve banking.

    Kee-rist.

  262. Here’s a question for meya and thior: When money is a construct, and when every dollar put into circulation immediately becomes roughly ten more via fractional reserve, and when all those manufactured debt-dollars incur interest back to the Pressmaster, where does the interest payment come from?

    In other words, when ever dollar is a baseless unit and not a promise of money (in a sense anyone would agree to if they understood it) wouldn’t it be inevitable that the only way to keep the whole shebang going would be to inflate it?

    And if the only way to keep the whole shebang going was to inflate it, why not have it inflate itself by way of, oh I don’t know, bubbles?! And within bubbles (this is where thiore finally comes into it, flexing that peabrain and all) why not make up a bunch of stupid banking shit — they and it being extensions of a Federal Reserve that’s printing the worthless crap — that has to, in time (wait for it…wait for it) EXPLODE?!

    Whoa.

    You mean like…heroin? Withdrawl? The financial DT’s? So, like, we’re about one hundred trillion in debt and that’s before we attempt a bit of reindustrialization? Grab the banister, meya, and put your head down for a bit, girl; it’ll pass. Aside from all the white guilt, thiore really does have a use in life, even if it’s only throwing bottles at an obsolete Administration.

  263. “Maybe if you threw a Nerf ball at me when I wasn’t looking and then turned and ran for your life maybe you’d hit me, Bmoe, just maybe, if you don’t throw like a girl, that is.”

    C’mon now thor. We all know Nerfs ain’t the kind of balls that routinely hit you in the face. And you’ve had more of them touch your nose than a circus seal. But don’t worry, we understand your manly aspirations. We only wonder if you’re the cowboy, the construction worker or the leather biker in your Village People cover band.

  264. Credit isn’t the problem. Illiquidity and insolvency are.

    Ummm.

    That tree there is called “Illiquidity.” That one next to it is called “Insolvency.”

    The forrest they stand in is called “Credit.”

    Increased savings will help illiquidity.

    There’s an illustration of the difference between illiquid and insolvent here.

  265. I mean, what do you think happens to money that’s “lent out”?

    When it’s Porkulus, meya thinks it pulls a rabbit out of its hat big enough to cover not only the losses inherent to government spending it, but to cover the fact that being part of inevitable pricing feedback it’s a grossly, inherently lossy way to “jolt the economy” — meya loves her some of that press-talk. But it’s still capable of actually doubling back on itself, adroitly tapping monetary zero-state energy nobody else gets to so much as see, much less use, and then turn a profit, somehow, from multipliers — “multipliers”, you know, don’t work unless government does ‘em; how that bears out meya’s not saying but zero-state energy might explain it — that despite the fact it’s going to run up double it’s amount in interest.

    Unique in the whole Universe, O!bama’s going to inflict about two and a half trillion dollars in costs on the place — enumerated in only a trillion or so in government-spent fiat money — and it’s just guaranteed to produce that and more in returns.

    Witness the Magic Expanding Production, folks. It’s coming! Next: Electric cars without electricity! They never run flat because there are no batteries!

  266. America reached its quota on WASPy hicktarded Presidents, eh.

    Did you graduate magna cum laude from Harvard Law? Think Obama might’a stole you seat?

    Brilliant rebuttal, thor. Do you fling feces for an encore?

  267. moderated Socialism and regulated Capitalism

    i.e. Fascism

    It’s the Third Way!

  268. “Brilliant rebuttal, thor. Do you fling feces for an encore?”

    Naw, he draws a little mustache with it.

  269. I love it when people point to Obama’s education. It just reminds me that Bush had a better education, did better in school than the previous Democrat standard-bearers of Gore and Kerry, and achieved more in real-world terms than all three put together.

  270. N O’Brain — I really don’t think whor intends to draw that mustache. It just happens, much like a milk mustache.

  271. After sleeping on it I think the RNC or some conservative 527 group should do a series of TV commercials. Use the Citi Identity Theft ones as the template. The voice speaking would be Obama’s voice. Talking about all those wonderful things he bought in the Stimulus Bill. Then after a really egregious one he says something in this nature. “What, you think that’s too much? Not like I’m spending my own money anyways. (Laughter).

    Show people that their money is being spent on all this stuff they would never do themselves. Brand the Dem’s as the thieves they are.

  272. Guys, the primary transaction is what is lost in every discussion I attend about the housing bubble and the “collapse” of credit. This thread is no exception.

    In every case, two parties, a borrower and a lender, both fiduciary and bond-able, enacted a binding contract. What the debate should boil down to is, is one of these two parties trying to get out a mutual contract extra-legally? And why is one particular American political party assisting it?

    Common sense says, the best way to get everybody in, say, Chicago, into a home is for the market to drop so low that folks can buy one. But, because Democratic Mayoralties engineer scarcities in the housing market for many reasons, it is city government that is responsible for the housing market. The party that enacts increasingly strict environmental restrictions on residential construction (ex. wetlands conserv., “green” lumber mandates, hiring/safety permitting loads) and drives away excavation and manufacturing jobs is the party that should be called to task for low rates of home-ownership in its district.

    Not incidental, scarcity boosts RE-brokerage revenues, and the commissions-driven RE resale industry capitalizes on this, as well as on it’s paid influence with city government. The act of undertaking urban design, permitting new developments or setting aside parks, itself, generates artificial markets (such as Central Park’s prestigious region), that the well-informed can harness fir commission-mills.

    End story is, in search of ever-higher commissions, these RE Industry brokerages’ often initiate the state’s permitting and districting changes intentionally to exploit them, assisting in urban housing shortages. And I see their fingerprints all over the Fannie/Freddie/CRA/Lehman debacle.

    That’s why I think the housing provisions in the bill are designed in part to prop-up the real-estate markets in Democratic Mayoralties, and with it the RE-commissions mill.

    This, of course, makes certain Democratic Congressmen’s anti-foreclosure tirades look like cynical rhetorical cover. I hear you can buy a whole block in Detroit for $10 – that’s a lot of homes. But the 6% commission on that’d only be $0.60. And, Barney Franks has got to asking, what good is that to Century 21?

    How much cache does the RE Industry have with urban Dems? What does Mr. Pelosi do for a living?

  273. Be careful guys, we’re dealing with a vast superior intellect here.

  274. “[V]astly superior,” that is, right? :-)
    -Dr. Steve

  275. Something like that.

    Curse my inability to type and hold a mug at the same time.

  276. Wholly Shit was this a funny thread. Thor has a real talent, no question about it. A few of the wingnuts here arent totally juiced up on jesus (for a change) and can dish come clean hatred. I wonder what the total charitable output of all the posters here actually is ? Pretty minor I’d bet. Not a lot of tithes in this crowd of misanthropes.

    Y’all should get a feel for how nominal democracies (republics as if that makes a difference) generally fall into totalitarian states- usually a milterized right wing and a fractured left wing, exceptions being when the right wing is an addled monarch.

    Obama aint gonna be no dictator- left is too divided, he does not have the knack. Y’all will probably get one sooner or later, since thats what you clearly want. The wingers dont want to feed the poor (really poor) and the DFH’s wont abide by anyone lording it over anyone else. Only answer: a Furher baby !

  277. “Wholly shit” just about sums up your little rant.

  278. What’s a DFH?

  279. Baracky I think is supposed to just destroy our economy and then start the one world government process, Mr. Industry. The deal is for him to just do what the fuck he’s told and then get his useless ass out of the way I think.

  280. He does not have the knack is right. He knows at some point he has to pass the baton off to someone what can function without a teleprompter and has actual for real competencies.

  281. @Happyfeet he seems to have a knack for getting somewhere in life, hard for anyone not to admit that. World government would be an improvement- would at least limit the competition from slave labor states driving the value of American lives down toward zero or less than zero.

    @Dan Collins, give much to charity in the last few years ? I thought not.

  282. “@Captain”: this isn’t Twitter, you illiterate twit.

    ‘Hammered.

  283. oh look; aliteration ! How so witty you are @SB&P.

    see it’s the patios of the tubes, if you can follow linguistics and allusions beyond the first grade level of your little nom de plum.

  284. Oh, do list your charitable contributions, BCI. You know, for comparison.

    I’ll bet you’re right up there with Obama/Biden!

  285. @pablo, since 2005, approx. $25,000. Wish I could do more, but have to worry about the ass I’m riding on….

    Not counting my ACLU, Jimmy Carter Foundation, and Amnesty Intl. dues, naturally.

  286. BCI, apart from my volunteer work for Catholic Charities, not so much.

  287. see it’s the patios of the tubes

    I’ve heard the tubes have some very attractive patios; screened-in, even.

  288. Does BCI have a point?

  289. I think Mr. Industry is trying to deny that Baracky is just a big fat socialist loser, Carin. He’s gonna have to eventually find a more defensible argument I think.

  290. see it’s the patios of the tubes

    Hahahahah! Thanks for quoting that one, Slart.

    Captain (or, as you’d probably have it, “Captian”): it is neither the “patios” nor the “patois” of the tubes.

    The Internet has been around since 1983. Twitter and that Twitter convention has been around since 2007, which is probably about the same date that your parents started letting you use the net unsupervised.

    You can spare me any more of your illiterate yammerings, child. I won’t even see them unless someone else quotes them.

    But do feel free to share your intimate knowledge of net culture and technology. There might be a Downs kid on here who doesn’t know better.

  291. I’m also looking forward to being “milterized”. Sounds fun!

  292. TrollHammer: the loggia of the net.

  293. @ Dan, thats a winner ! Congrats, for real.

    @ happy, just not sure how a guy who rises to be ya know…President of the United States…is what YOU might call a loser……

    @Carin- yes, the point is this thread makes me laugh because the original notion that Obama is seeking a dictatorship because Rahm made the rather prosaic political point that a crisis can provide political opportunity (hardly a Reichstag fire if you ask me) was lost in some really fun, clean hating from a bunch of skilled haters, hence my focus on the actual charitable impules of these same folks…. after all, no man is an island, unto himself entire….

  294. Wasn’t that the name of that one dude on Adam-12? Martin Milter?

    Maybe it’s some kind of artificial breeding technology for aquaculture.

    Perhaps a specialized web filter to block (or, better, find) porn of the Yummy Mummy variety (portmanteau of “MILF” and “filter”). “Yeah, I added that new Milterize plugin to Firefox. No more 60 year old crack whores pretending to be horny housewives!”

    The sad thing is that these illiterate children, pig-ignorant of math, science, history, and economics, are invariably convinced that they’re freakin’ geniuses.

  295. BCI, I’m sure that you’re already proud of the transparency.

    I’m sure that you don’t think there was a problem about turning off the verification on the online donations.

    I’m sure that the 17 waivers (that I know of so far) for lobbyists in the lobby-free admin makes you proud.

    I’m sure that the funding of the ACORN people does, too.

    I’m sure that the way Obama is exposing corruption one nominee at a time has your backing.

    Captain, O! My Captain

  296. Aww now @SB&P won’t have to look at things that hurt his little eyes….such a handy tool! (unlike his father). Maybe he could have me banned, or zotted, or whatever the appropriate term is for not offending delicate little feelings?

    Aww the spelling cops are out too- guess that means they are smarter than little old me when I am speed typing….

  297. That’s because everyone’s been so tender regarding their self-esteem, SBP.

  298. @Dan saying he would have no lobbyists was plain stupid. You think I should defend everything he does ?

    You want to talk about corruption between the major parties? Really ?

    Your standard is zero mistakes and zero corruption ? Like the last “administration” ?

  299. Baracky can’t do a news conference without help, Mr. Industry. Loser. Also he has to borrow over a trillion dollars to create or maybe just manage not to lose 3 million jobs. Loser. He wants to herd black people back onto welfare. Loser. He tried to hand Iraq to al Qaeda. Loser. He plucked Arkansas wife and mother Hillary R. Clinton out of obscurity and put her stupid no-foreign policy experience-having hick ass at the head of the State Department. Loser. Joe Biden. Hah! Loser loser loser. Also he’s just sort of disgusting and smarmy and devoid of class I think.

  300. The (illiterate) Boy Stood on the Burning Book.

    Captain Mook won’t get either of those references.

  301. There’s your invitation, people.

  302. tu quoque, BCI? How predictable. How “look Bunnies!”

    snore

  303. BCI = Thor. Give away was when he opened the post praising himself.

    Funny, how Thor lost his marbles after being caught lying about the Jan sales increase. Go on boy, tell us about how smart you are buying stocks for $2. You’ll be bankrupt in less that 2 years. You don’t get it, this time its really different and what your hero doesn’t have the sense to realize is that sending good money after bad is not going to delay, sor reverse what must come. RTO was kind enough to clue you into the process. Whistle past the graveyard, son, its your own choice.

    Stupid thor. What did you do to deserve becoming Obama’s fluffer?

  304. BCI = Thor. Give away was when he opened the post praising himself.

    I don’t think so. Thor is literate.

  305. Careful, Darleen. “Captian” of Sophistry doesn’t even speak English. Let’s not strain that pitiful little knot of ganglia it uses in lieu of a brain by bringing Latin into the picture.

  306. Garçon! Could we get a new troll over here, please? I think this one is borked.

  307. I am not Thor or his sockpuppet.

    @happy, impressive graf, 100% wrong. nice trick. Lets see:

    Baracky can’t do a news conference without help. hmmm, was he wearing a wire ? The prompters retracted ya know, or was he using invisible ones that only he could see? Wrong.

    Also he has to borrow over a trillion dollars to create or maybe just manage not to lose 3 million jobs. Ahh recession started in Dec 2007, he has been president for three weeks. Wrong.

    He wants to herd black people back onto welfare. Ya, sure he does. Wrong.

    He tried to hand Iraq to al Qaeda. Yea, sure the Iraqi Shia want more Sunni control, from outside their own country yet. Wrong.

    He plucked Arkansas wife and mother Hillary R. Clinton out of obscurity? Really, does this even deserve a response?

    Joe Biden. Also he’s just sort of disgusting and smarmy and devoid of class I think. Yes, another loser who has risen to Vice President of the United States. Wrong.

    I’m no troll- I’m farther to the right than some of you folks on some issues, as befitting a facist-in-waiting.

    Thought you were not reading anymore of these @ SB&P ?

    Wimp+Pussy= Wussy

  308. I’m no troll- I’m farther to the right than some of you folks on some issues, as befitting a facist-in-waiting.

    thor! Because of the Libertarian!

  309. facist-in-waiting

    You’re a handmaiden of Botox Nancy Pelosi?

  310. Wrong isn’t a rebuttal, BCI, it is a statement of faith.

  311. incorrect: not correct; not in conformity with fact or truth; “an incorrect calculation”; “the report in the paper is wrong”; “your information is …

    contrary to conscience or morality or law; “it is wrong for the rich to take advantage of the poor”; “cheating is wrong”; “it is wrong to lie”

    improper: not appropriate for a purpose or occasion; “said all the wrong things”

    amiss(p): not functioning properly; “something is amiss”; “has gone completely haywire”; “something is wrong with the engine”

    based on or acting or judging in error; “it is wrong to think that way”
    not in accord with established usage or procedure; “the wrong medicine”; “the wrong way to shuck clams”; “it is incorrect for a policeman to accept gifts”

    ill-timed: badly timed; “an ill-timed intervention”; “you think my intrusion unseasonable”; “an untimely remark”; “it was the wrong moment for a joke”

    treat unjustly; do wrong to

    incorrectly: in an inaccurate manner; “he decided to reveal the details only after other sources had reported them

    incorrectly”; “she guessed wrong”

    And that’s Herr Pelosi to you @Darleen


  312. Comment by JHoward on 2/16 @ 7:18 am #

    I await thor’s next solo pissing contest. The champee’n of markets doesn’t understand monetary systems, RTO. I guess you can lead a dependent to “liquidity” but you can’t make her think: The problem, thoirre and meya, as I’ve been telling you, is systemic. You just don’t have the minds for it.

    No, it’s not systematic, not when the system can be adjusted and changed.

    I don’t care to discuss gold standard conspiracy theories, I really don’t. I prefer the here and now, which is a frame of reference you struggle with mightily with, I guess.


  313. Comment by Old Texas Turkey on 2/16 @ 3:05 pm #

    BCI = Thor. Give away was when he opened the post praising himself.

    Funny, how Thor lost his marbles after being caught lying about the Jan sales increase. Go on boy, tell us about how smart you are buying stocks for $2. You’ll be bankrupt in less that 2 years. You don’t get it, this time its really different and what your hero doesn’t have the sense to realize is that sending good money after bad is not going to delay, sor reverse what must come. RTO was kind enough to clue you into the process. Whistle past the graveyard, son, its your own choice.

    Stupid thor. What did you do to deserve becoming Obama’s fluffer?

    Hi stupid. Mind of I call you, oh, I dunno, Slap Johnson, because Old Texas Turkey is simply too goddamn stupid a nickname for me to bear.

    Well, Slap, there might be a slight difference in micro and macro economics, so much so that your homespun homilies such as “throwing good money after bad” really are more a sad revelation of your inability to recognize Federal monetary policy is not the same as taking them dollars out of a coffee can and countin’ ‘em proper on your kitchen table, which is covered with a checkered patterned plastic covering, no doubt.

    I like the market capitalization values of some of them there American companies, Slap, that’s what I likes to looks ats. The fact that them blue chipsters are around $2-per really is a comical aside to the reality you can only lose $2-dollars a share at this point.

  314. “Facist”.

    Heh. That one never fails to bring a smile.

    What the fuck is a “facist”? Someone who’s prejudiced against ugly people?

  315. 311. (TrollHammered)
    315. (TrollHammered)
    316. (TrollHammered)
    317. (TrollHammered)

    Snicker.

  316. No, it’s not systematic, not when the system can be adjusted and changed.

    lmfao.

  317. No, it’s not systematic, not when the system can be adjusted and changed.

    Oh? How so. How can the monetary system “be changed” financyal jeanie-us? Can it morph? Evolve? Perform slights-of-ha- oh, forget that one. Can it turn tricks? Wake up tomorrow a changed monetary system and stop drinking? Can it be saved and born again, never more to stray?

    How about you and I drop out of it entirely, us and 100mm of our fellows, with a certificate of deposit you print under threat to keep the damn thing honest? Possible? Can the Japanese drive over and get trucks of oranges out of this changeable monetary system by heading on over to Citigroup? Might it be blue tomorrow, and a nice pearlescent mauve a week later?

    Can Ben jack ‘er up to ten points…or down to, say, negative six? No? Can we ditch the T-bill by Sunday and leave all your offshore dependents hanging? Nope? Then how the hell can it “change”, thoirre? Will the IRS come knocking looking for any number you happen to propose come April?

    I don’t care to discuss gold standard conspiracy theories, I really don’t.

    Splendid. Keen. We don’t have to get into the gold trust then. Or the dollar running along side it.

    I prefer the here and now, which is a frame of reference you struggle with mightily with, I guess.

    I’ll just bet you do. I’ll have to as, see, it’s not quite siding with you. Ya rhetoric-bound imbecile. Just how many times can something be spelled out to you and you will yourself to miss it all over again, hor?

    The problem is systemic. It’s the system, stupid.

  318. You know, if I want to see a bunch of @whoevers, I’d pay attention to my Twitter account. Which I don’t. Because I think it’s kinda … stupid.

    Can this @guy just go talk-at all his followers on Twitter?

  319. Oh, but it’s part of the “patios” of the tubes, Carin!

    Captian Choas!!! haz spok3n!

  320. “Patios”, “facist”. Maybe I’ll de-Hammer him just to see if “burgeous” makes an appearance.

  321. Here’s the biggest giveaway, hor, and it’s public knowledge, just not yours: $500,000,000,000 in annual interest on the Debt. That and the fact the GDP’s expansion rate is not keeping up with the rate of debt growth, to say nothing, again, about inflation’s effect on said GDP. Cat. Bag. Out. Didn’t you have something to say smart about the GDP upthread?

    It’s really not all that difficult, hor: Garbage in, garbage out. “It’s almost worth the Great Depression to learn how little our big men know.” – Will Rogers.

    Oh, that’s gotta leave a mark.

  322. #

    Comment by Spies, Brigands, and Pirates on 2/16 @ 5:42 pm #

    311. (TrollHammered)
    315. (TrollHammered)
    316. (TrollHammered)
    317. (TrollHammered)

    Snicker.

    Look, the monkey covered his eyes and snickered. Next I’ll bet he let’s a chunk of poo fly.

  323. Everyone is just so delicate over here. A little @ sign to signify a response to a user is just sooo much to bear, especially with that man in the white house…..

    Very well then @Carin, I will go away, to return someday to this fetid swamp of hating tools when some other thread comes up to match the high comedy of Jeff’s deep thought about Rahm’s throw-away statement of political axiom.

    Until then my not friends !

  324. this fetid swamp of hating tools

    A turd by any other name wouldn’t be a turd, eh BCI? Don’t go hatin’ on the hatin’!

    Nice showing. Convincing, too.

  325. I’m thinking about using my stimulus check to buy a new hating tool.

    Or maybe a new set of earrings. That one has approval from the Highest AuthoriTAY.

  326. The thing is, Carin, is that in the Twitter context that @ convention actually serves a purpose (that’s how Twitter knows to that it’s a message for that person).

    In any other context, it just makes you look like a clueless poseur.

    I think Der Kapitan was afraid that someone would fail to notice that he’s an illiterate asshole.

  327. Don’t go away angry … just you know …

    Honestly, it’s amazing how irritating that little @ thing was.

  328. #

    Comment by JHoward on 2/16 @ 6:00 pm #

    Here’s the biggest giveaway, hor, and it’s public knowledge, just not yours: $500,000,000,000 in annual interest on the Debt. That and the fact the GDP’s expansion rate is not keeping up with the rate of debt growth, to say nothing, again, about inflation’s effect on said GDP. Cat. Bag. Out. Didn’t you have something to say smart about the GDP upthread?

    It’s really not all that difficult, hor: Garbage in, garbage out. “It’s almost worth the Great Depression to learn how little our big men know.” – Will Rogers.

    Oh, that’s gotta leave a mark.

    I have no idea what the crux of your “systematic” problematic is. And really, I don’t care. It’s really stupid, whatever your argument is, I’d assume. What the econ-crackpots post on the John Birch society website usually is. Taxe rates and sovereign debt and debt coverage expense are not easily related to fuckin’ GDP estimates, or, if it’s easier for you to understand hick-speak – no matter how many flying monkeys you count in the trees, it doesn’t mean you’re right, because the flying ones move around, a lot.

    Post a link to whatever crackpot you think has all the answers and I’ll read it when I have time.

    It’s my poker night, so like, see ya.

  329. Bye, hor. When your outgo outstrips your income, maybe then you’ll get it.

    Maybe. Zoom!

    BUT IT’S COMPLICATED!!!11!

  330. I have no idea what the crux of your “systematic” problematic is. And really, I don’t care.

    But you just can’t help pulling your little party dress up over your head and parading around the living room, huh?

    thor is a perfect example of why you never see referees on the NFL pre-game shows talking strategy. He might know most of the rules, but he don’t have a fucking clue how to play the game.


  331. Comment by Brave Captain of Industry on 2/16 @ 6:02 pm #

    Everyone is just so delicate over here. A little @ sign to signify a response to a user is just sooo much to bear, especially with that man in the white house…..

    Very well then @Carin, I will go away, to return someday to this fetid swamp of hating tools when some other thread comes up to match the high comedy of Jeff’s deep thought about Rahm’s throw-away statement of political axiom.

    Until then my not friends !

    Delicate and deranged is a difficult combo to manage.

    Thanks for stopping by. The extremist r-wing quackery usually plays on until midnight on most nights.

  332. When your outgo outstrips your income, maybe then you’ll get it.

    Maybe. Zoom!

    Nope, we just went over that a couple threads ago. Apparently if you know enough big, markety sounding words you don’t have to gross more than you spend. Only hicktards think otherwise.

  333. Comment by B Moe on 2/16 @ 6:24 pm #

    I have no idea what the crux of your “systematic” problematic is. And really, I don’t care.

    But you just can’t help pulling your little party dress up over your head and parading around the living room, huh?

    Don’t tell me you’re one of those flag-pin hicks who has his nieces pull up their dresses and then takes pictures? Stay away from the slumber parties, you pervert.

  334. Run along now, you are going to be late for poker night.

    Don’t forget your pennies!

  335. Super-Genius.

  336. The spirit of righteousness has befallen upon the crest of Barack Obama.

    And he’s still young enough to dance funky-like on Soul Train.

    And he’s quite the ventriloquist, too.

    Little Thor EchO!, roughly 3:20 in.

  337. Everyone is just so delicate over here. A little @ sign to signify a response to a user is just sooo much to bear, especially with that man in the white house…..

    Very well then @Carin, I will go away, to return someday to this fetid swamp of hating tools when some other thread comes up to match the high comedy of Jeff’s deep thought about Rahm’s throw-away statement of political axiom.

    Until then my not friends !

    Brava, Scarlett, you’ve got my vote.

  338. I like his rebuttal though. Just restate the original statement and say WRONG! I like that. I have to present to the board in two weeks and I’m going to employ this tactic. Top line volume down? WRONG! Trade spend too high? WRONG Missed NOPBT? WRONG!

    Yeah, that will work. Brave Captain of Industry indeed.

  339. #271
    Comment by Darleen on 2/16 @ 8:44 am #

    moderated Socialism and regulated Capitalism

    i.e. Fascism

    It’s the Third Way!

    It’s worked out so well. Oh. Wait! Nevermind. Choice is bad Darleen. We must have someone over us to tell us what our limited choices are. Why, you just can’t trust an individual to where his best interests lie.

  340. #

    Comment by Rusty on 2/16 @ 9:09 pm #

    #271
    Comment by Darleen on 2/16 @ 8:44 am #

    moderated Socialism and regulated Capitalism

    i.e. Fascism

    It’s the Third Way!

    It’s worked out so well. Oh. Wait! Nevermind. Choice is bad Darleen. We must have someone over us to tell us what our limited choices are. Why, you just can’t trust an individual to where his best interests lie.

    Ohnoes, wittle pwunked ass bwitch ew goes by wee nick Wusty gonna tell us about FASCISM, wikes wittle dyke-wero Warleen. Dwarwee wail’m stwories of hars thrice-flogged Wirish wousins, sump’tymes evans hars Waddy, eews wame waz Molly Joe, fwigures dat!

    Fuck off, faggot Rusty.

  341. Yep, sepaWation anxiety.

  342. When he gets drunk he likes to pretend he is Barney Frank. And fantasize about Larry Craig.

  343. Pingback: Nobrainer’s Think Tank » Nancy isn’t making any sense

  344. Super-duper Genius.

  345. I agree with many of the commenters above, especially with commenter David. Obamas reaction to this recession has been questionable at best. He is undoing much of the great work that Clinton put in place years ago. This is not the answer to the recession. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for life.

  346. Pingback: Patterico’s Pontifications » Today’s Links

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