At least it’s a collective one.
James Wolcott is best signed by one of those special synechdoches, in which a hole represents a whole. You cannot expect James Wolcott to go to Gleen’s blog and find out why he’s a faggot stupid. Oh, no.  The important thing is that we continue to try to spin some strange psychodynamic theory to explain why some people don’t agree with us, or our sensibilities. And the reason must necessarily be that they are psychically flawed.
By the way, James, you’re a douchebag.
Wow, look at you, Dan. You’re a regular twat magnet.
C’mon Dan, elevate the conversation and call Wolcott a poopy-pants.
That’ll show him right good!
Yeah, right, coming from someone with a ‘net handle of “DonkeyKong.”
“synechdoches” That’s a good one. Hope you did’t give yourself a nosebleed coming up with that.
Buck-up blog-warriors, and ride to the sound, typing, whatever of the conjugated poopy talk.
These clowns can’t even risk actually linking to your piece – might enable their readers to draw a different conclusion.
Don’t want to link to someone? Don’t talk about them. Doing otherwise makes you a certifiable douchebag.
Now lefties are baiting, “What’s the matter? Are you afraid to insert anything in your ass?” They all must have just come from the Folsom Street Fair with all these masochistic taunts.
Dan, keep attracting trolls. One of these days we might get one that can actually form a coherent argument.
Until then, we can expect more “LOL WINGNUTS” over and over again.
But it keeps things interesting.
The important thing is that we continue to try to spin some strange psychodynamic theory to explain why some people don’t agree with us, or our sensibilities.And the reason must necessarily be that they are psychically flawed
I think the word you’re looking for is “psychologically”, unless your powers of extra sensory perception are indeed flawed.
Also, thanks for the most unintentionally hilarious set of “essays” I’ve read in a long while…
If you play it backwards at high speed, it sounds like a dial tone.
Donkey Kong–
It’s interesting that you respond that way. I wonder, can you explain to me exactly how it is again that Piss Christ or Elephant Shit Mother of God is art, but overstricken faggot in response to Gleen’s reference to the blasphemy of the Mo-Toons (some of which were as spurious as Tawana Brawley) is simply beyond the pale? I seem to have forgotten.
I know he is. But what are you.
Wait. I know he is. But does what he think you are.
Wait-
I don’t understand the onion bulb thing. I mean, that’s the same thing as what normal people mean when they say “onion.” It’s not like I would mistake Dan for a shallot.
No, I think psychically is more apt, but look it up, if you don’t believe me. And your bizarre love-hate relationship with Papa Freud is interesting in its own psychological right, don’t you think? But then, you are all vaginal retentives.
He’s nostalgic for the Soviet Union, hf.
St. Basil’s, all that.
I got it. Btw, I didn’t know Vanity Fair had a website. OMG!!! They have a Kennedys archive!11!! Later, losers.
Maybe you’re supposed to stick it up your ass.
Now, now, hf–maybe James can have Hitch explain it to him.
to prove your masculine courage that is.
I was just kidding. I just went to smoke a cigarette.
It is a seriously odd flourish, that onion bulb. Maybe it’s cause they can be dormant for a long time? But that doesn’t make sense to call Dan dormant, really. Dormant is more like Georgie Geyer. If that doesn’t work, mishu’s idea is as good as any.
Say it’s not true, Dan! Say you didn’t mention teh butseks!
I’m afraid it’s true, Slart: he’s a practicing moron.
What? Wolcott claims he’s NOT a douchebag?
It’s very, very sad to see how deeply in denial the man is.
Well, it’s spelled: synecdoche.
A form of metonymy.
I’ll go now.
Jonah Goldberg several years ago had the best take I’ve ever seen on Wolcott. Jonah said that Wolcott’s writing comes across as if he were trying to become the fifth girl on “Sex and the City.”
Here I am still trying to figure out what the fuck a gnomic conceit is, and then you go and send my already addled self over to a James Walcott post with “bootylicious” in the title. While he seems a bit large for a gnome, he does share enough (garden) gnomic traits for the ensuing mental images to do my psyche considerable damage. I am going to go see if I can drink enough to get that out of my mind.
I had a riff on James trying to crash the opening banquet for the PJM sendoff, but I’ll be damned if I can find it anywhere.
If someone else can, let me know.
Onions have layers.
And when you hurt them, they make you cry.
That’s you in an
onion skinnutshell, Dan. I’ve never seen your essence so succinctly represented.Bravo! Author!
Donkey Kong–
It’s interesting that you respond that way. I wonder, can you explain to me exactly how it is again that Piss Christ or Elephant Shit Mother of God is art, but overstricken faggot in response to Gleen’s reference to the blasphemy of the Mo-Toons (some of which were as spurious as Tawana Brawley) is simply beyond the pale? I seem to have forgotten.
Let me help, both are free speech.
Both are slumming for shock value, “te he, I said somthing shocking, look at me!” Glenn quotes multiple examples on the right of this in his post. The right does it more often to stir up fear and fuel political careers.
To counter on the left, when have you read about liberal bloggers, media types constantly refering to “Piss Christ?” unless it’s being defended on free speech grounds.
This concept is called proportionality.
It’s a big word Dan, so keep your distance and look at it through protective glasses before going to the dictionary to look it up.
Glenn is just a badass like that. But I think you meant “cites,” dictionary boy.
Oh snap, happyfeet!
You are one serious bitch!
No Mas!
“The right does it more often to stir up fear and fuel political careers.”
Aw, look — it slavishly parrots the unsupportable self-stroking conclusions that its master concocts. It thinks it’s people!
As the local representative of the tendency (sort of), I guess I’m obligated to point out that no one who’s talking about Dan is talking about Dan.
The Freudoid nonsense Wolcott quotes has no discernible relation to anything Dan (or Freud) has ever said; the only “hole” there is the nonexistence of the “people like Dan Collins” so diagnosed, an absence on which Dan’s name is thereby stamped, as if naming the ghost will, by a miracle of false metonymy, make whoever-that-moron-is’s “America [become] filled with” such people.
(Which it absolutely will, in his readers’ minds, and probably his own, but that’s something else.)
I was just trying to help, DonkeyKong. I think it’s cool that you’re bilingual though.
Dan – I must commend you. We have not seen a troll swarm like this in quite some time. Playing whack-a-troll is fun now and again, and the likes of Chuckles, Blue Texan aka instaputz, steve, and Donkey Kong make it that much more enjoyable.
Breaks up the circle jerk, doesnt it JD.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that!
DonkeyKong’s dictionary:
Circle Jerk – people who disagree with me
Circle Jerk: Narcissistic wank-fest for chickenhawk douches.
Close OHNOES!, very close.
Sometimes I go all day without using an exclamation point.
ut oh, someone isn’t familiar with the regulars….. where’d Major John go?
or your orthopedic shoes.
Does veteran status count? If so, I’d like to be the first to tell DK that he’s a douchebag. And Wolcott is a tub of mentally deficient goo.
Donkey buggerer – At least be entertaining. Or original.
*yawn* Oh, did DonkeyKong wander into here? Must be bored or feel an urge to spread Teh Narrative, or just annoy people.
Obviously he feels “safe” enough to try flinging the “chickenhawk” slur here, apparently he wasn’t stupid enough to try it at, oh, Milblogs or similar. Who’s next? Jadegold?
It’s the cruel taunts that are most hurtful.
Donkey buggerer? nothing freudian there JD.
Bet your a wide-stance kinda guy.
So which hornets’ nest did y’all crack open this time?
Shawn, you have to refer to it as a hornets nest buggerer, or douche-nest buggerer, or maybe a douche hornet buggerer.
Otherwise they won’t pay any attention to you. And that would be a tragedy.
DK, did you say proportionality in relation to my post, even after I’d mentioned the Mo-Toon background to Gleen’s post? WTF?
Wait, is the guy who wrote of circle jerks as “Narcissistic wank-fest for chickenhawk douches” fretting over the level of discourse?
Why, I can hardly blame him, given how much he’s aided in elevating it.
I just want to commend DonkeyKong for bravely, some might say suicidally, taking on all comers at PW. Deftly and contemptuously batting away the slung barbs and returning fire with unadulterated mockery: it’s like Audie Murphy or Alvin York.
DK should get a medal. What a hero.
Donkey Kong – Freudian? Is that the best you’ve got? For a bunch of people that appear to be overcome with the vapors at Dan’s not faggot post, and uber-concerned with the feelings of teh ghey, why is it that you are the first to accuse somebody of being teh ghey in a negative connotation?
NuanceMan, it feels like a bloggo-sphere group hug. Compassion with the conservatism.
Mo-Toon Dan?, is that like a You-hoo chocolate drink.
Apparently Dan has skewered some favorite columnist of DKs. Like all lower primates, when frustrated, it flings shit.
Yeah. So much for the homophobia.
You have a really challenging time with getting brands right, Donkey. Does your mom still do all the shopping?
Obviously he feels “safe†enough to try flinging the “chickenhawk†slur here, apparently he wasn’t stupid enough to try it at, oh, Milblogs or similar. Who’s next? Jadegold?
Because if I did try the “chickenhawk” slur you’ll…you..you would..uh, flood my email with penis pump spam?
C’mon Chesty, once more into the breach. Did Harry Reid knot his tie in a way that is disrespectful of the troops.
::piling on a bit late::
No Mas!
Try again, mijo, it’s:
¡No más!
Dan – lemme get this straight, so to speak… all you said was the guy was a faggot, right? Oh, I thought so. What, is he ashamed of being a faggot? I mean, what’s wrong with being a faggot… I mean if’n yer gay an’ all?
Penis-pump spam. I’m sure that’s all those apostates have to worry about. On the other hand, Fox News? Evil.
Enoch, that pretty much sums it up. Because it’s so hateful to say faggot when Iranian homosexuals are being murdered. What was I thinking?
::and again::
Bet your a wide-stance kinda guy.
you’re
you’ll…you..you would..uh, flood
The ellipsis consists of three dots.
a hornets nest
a hornets’ nest
“te he, I said somthing shocking
tee hee
when have you read about liberal bloggers, media types constantly refering to “Piss Christ?†unless it’s being defended on free speech grounds.
Question mark at the end of the question, please.
doesnt it JD.
doesn’t it, JD?
Look, it’s all I got. Lacking a Y chromosome, I don’t have the anatomy for this kind of contest.
Yoo-hoo, also. That just really bugs me.
Fox News IS a penis pump, Dan.
Dennis Perrin…Donkey Kong…strangely enough, both writers are fascinated by ‘gay-oriented rhetoric’, so much so as to use it every chance they get.
Dan, I wonder what synapse-train you caused to fire in that Dennis/Kong brain, to compel it’s recalling of fun times with relatives and banana oil? Some slippery slope of misfiring neurons you’ve enabled.
Good for you!
Dan- you silly rabbit! didn’t you hear Ameniwhateverthefuckhisnameis… you know, the guy with the Miami Vice suit… say faggotry isn’t a phenom in Iram? Good God man! We have no reason not to take his word for it… it’s not like he works for BlackwaterHaliBushCheney! His word is his bond! What do you hate little brown men in small suits too? Hater!!!!!
When I’m calling You-hoo-hoo-hooooooo
At least dicentra is totally with the “anal” aspect of the thread.
‘Course, being such a big prick and all already, I’m sure you get your news from MSNBC.
But it’s all good man, because there’s a big pussy in the other thread I could set you up with.
Assuming you roll that way. NTTAWWT.
Oh…oh…I am slain. Dan you bastard!
MSNBC!
Well, I bet you get your teeth cleaned at Home Depot!
There, I said it.
Look… if Walcott sucks a cock, who cares? More tail for me! I mean… if’n yer into chicks er whatever…
Yeah, Kong, but where does he get his drain cleaned, if you know what I mean?
Me? Naw, I just eat a lot of carpet.
Only you know what you mean Elihu…if you know what I mean (wink,wink,nudge,nudge.say no more.)
Shag, pile, or berber?
Astroturf?
Enoch, I’ve heard he does in fact like pussies.
google it people!
You eat carpet Dan? Try pussy.
Pore some dick juice on it so it’s familiar.
No, I think psychically is more apt, but look it up, if you don’t believe me.
See, here is the thing – I don’t need to, since I know what the word means. But as a service to you, I’ll look it up:
So what you’re saying is, James Wolcott thinks your psychic abilities are flawed. Like, you’re having trouble astrally projecting yourself, or reading his mind.
And your bizarre love-hate relationship with Papa Freud is interesting in its own psychological right, don’t you think? But then, you are all vaginal retentives.
Uh, sure.
DK – look man… all I wants to do is like, you know, like drum circle or whatever… and if it turns into something more, you and I can blame it on Mother Earth er whatever… I mean not like I’m all gay er whatever… but this is a little odd… I have this sensation unlike any I have ever felt before… but as long as that doesn’t make me gay er things and stuff, I’m cool like that… no one has to know.
Yes I know, it’s spelled pour.
Are you happy now?
Uh. Just how “familiar” do you like your pussy, DK?
Gay hippies, drum circle?, are you blogging from 1978, Enoch?
Kaktastrophe, you are still wrong. You only know the pop definition of psychic. Why don’t you look up the Greek word, psyche?
dude, if you could keep it a bit… erm… discreet… shit, man, don’t blow my cover with all of these homophobes! I mean Dan called the guy a faggot! What next… is he gonna start calling folks pole-smokers? Where does it end er whatever and things?
Kong’s familiar pussy?
Black, satanic and tight, just the way I like it.
Dan – Greeks are gay!
Oh, good. I was hoping this wasn’t going to get all Oedipal.
Seemed appropriate given the psychic, ESP, New Age stuff.
I’m sure Mr. Perrin agrees.
Kaktastrophe, you are still wrong. You only know the pop definition of psychic. Why don’t you look up the Greek word, psyche?
See, I don’t need to do that either. Psyche is in the root of psychology, and the derivation you were looking for is still “psychologically”. It has nothing to do with the word you used.
Dan – Oprah has nothing to do with this… dude, yer like so,,, i dunno, like condescendingness or whatevrer… i know my rights, fucker!
“. Because it’s so hateful to say faggot when Iranian homosexuals are being murdered. What was I thinking?”
Next, you take on the defense black africans in sudan when talking about Clarence Thomas, or women in afghanistan while referring to michelle malkin? This is some newfound perspective i’m getting here.
adj. also psy·chi·cal (-k-kl)
1. Of, relating to, affecting, or influenced by the human mind or psyche; mental: psychic trauma; psychic energy.
Kak (may I call you Kak?)–You simply do not know what you are talking about. You have your head so far up your ass that you think you’re Miss Cleo.
andy–You continue to make an ass of yourself, because you continue not to consider what it is that Greenwald said, and why I react to THAT the way I do. You want to truncate the argument at the point where I typed “faggot.” Which is NEVER, EVER acceptable. Insult and mock Christians: acceptable. Mo-Toons? BLASPHEMY!
“You want to truncate the argument at the point where I typed “faggot.—
No no. I get to the point you’re making. Thats why i referenced women in afghanistan and black africans in sudan.
What would you say to a Jewish person in the 30’s who said “The [people who have political views I disagree with] are silly being afraid of the Nazi boogeyman.” Or to the black person in the early 20th century who said “The [people who have political views I disagree with] are silly being afraid of the KKK boogeyman.” I might say “What the fuck, are you fucking crazy?” Dan Collins said “Hey Stupid” and highlighted the insanity of this position with a reference to a slur (stricken-through). To Ahmandinejad, a homosexual who exists is one he hasn’t gotten around to having executed.
Shhhhhhhh. You are not all that.
Kong’s Banana Buddy?
Good stuff, Serr8d. Good stuff, indeed. These trolls are fun.
Maggie,
I don’t know how Tim Burton got that past Hollywood… but I likes it!
I have to say, Dan, I’m with Wolcott on this one. Does anyone seriously doubt that liberals have less anxiety about being fucked in the ass?
heh, I likes it too, but I was actually thinking Nelson Eddy.
way back when we got our first dvd player… um, christmas gift I think.. that was one of the movies RTO gave me. Who doesn’t dream of vaporizing Congress?
DonkeyKong: don’t you think it’s about time you updated your bad psychological theory to something a bit more recent? I mean, there are literally dozens of them to choose from!
Maggie,
More than vaporizing Congress, I’m surprised no one in Tinseltown figured out that Mars Attacks completely rips on Lefty modes of thought in general.
Dan – A minor point of contention. I think that douchenozzle is a more precise term in this instance.
oh, they were probably lulled to indifference by the “peaceful” solution.
DonkeyKong is living proof that projection isn’t just for movie theaters.
Oh, and speaking as an active-duty veteran who deployed to the Middle East last year, your “chickenhawk” slur is a sad as the rest of intellectually and emotionally stunted philosophy. Because as we all know, you wouldn’t enlist in the armed forces if the nation’s capital itself was nuked. So please spare us your 2003-era insults and try to come up with something more original.
Finally, a right-wing blogger that speaks the truth and says what he really thinks. It is no wonder you are so attracted to Mr. Greenwald, he was probably the first left-wing blogger to do the same thing. I hope that the folks at Redstate, Townhall and Ace of Spades are watching the precedent you are setting. It is time for the right-wing to cut the crap and say what they really think.
Uh, mark, have you ever actually read Ace’s blog, especially where he posts on the Gleens? Not exactly a tea party.
Let me ask you if you know what the phrase “Like a Viking” means. If you don’t know, it would lead me to believe that you don’t really know shit about righty blogs.
GOOD DAY, SIR!
I wouldn’t say I’ve got anxiety so much as a case of Do Not Want.
Ditto for most body piercings; not so much phobic as, possibly, that they’re pretty much for other people.
markwilliams, Gleens are one of those bloggers who isn’t afraid to say what they just made up. Gleens aren’t cutting the crap, they’re mass producing it.
kak,
Psyche is in the root of psychology, and the derivation you were looking for is still “psychologicallyâ€Â.
Of course you realize that “-ology” indicates “the study of”. Further, that two similar but different words have a common derivation means exactly nothing here.
Mark, are you going from posting to posting on this blog and pasting the same thing over and over again?
Maggie,
I am way late – but I get so BORED by the chickenhawk stuff from the likes of DK, that I hardly bother to respond anymore. Have him call me when he is ready to join up – I’ll try and get the G-RAP referral…
Major, we all are, but ever so often I get REALLY bored and poke them with a stick.
and it seems mark was so proud of his comment he’s copied it and is pasting it in multiple posts. I guess no one should miss his cluelessness. Bless his heart….
May I raise my hand and point out that I have absolutely no idea what is going on here currently?
I’m still trying to figure out the “onion bulb” connotation, but then James “Vanity Fair(y)” Wolcott always struck me as a pretender to the literary throne of Oscar Wilde.
He’s already captured the pretentiousness, and is hard by the title of “Most Self-Absorbed Faggot”….
If Walcott were to say “shining shimmering sissors”, would it sound like steam escaping? NTTAWWT…..
Because as we all know, you wouldn’t enlist in the armed forces if the nation’s capital itself was nuked.
Isnt the threat of a “terrorist nuke” the long standing scare tactic on the right. If you were honest you would confess to praying that it will happen soon.
The American people must pay for not being as “patriotic” as you.
If this is a real threat, where are the volunteers? Where is a draft?
This is World War 3, or 4 or whatever. Should’nt we be committing the weight of our nation to this fight.
Has W even ASKED his two daughters to serve.
Your suggestion of signing this person or that is as stunted as saying Nancy Pelosi should drive a tofu powered wind-car to work or Arnold Shwarzenegger should give up his Hummer.
That argument is stunted. Is this the Great Battle of Mankind, or not. Big problems require big solutions. How bout liberty bonds, or freedom bonds. The fact is that hasnt even occurred to you.
All I see in the Middle East is a super-sized Lebanon. Not a conventional conflict we can have much control over.
If you guys had any testicles, you would advocate total mobilization.
Not snarky blog-circle jerks.
DK – When do you plan on volunteering to be a human shield? After Rachel, I understand that there is at least one opening available.
Hey, I thought there ought to be war bonds. The volunteers? That’s what our military is.
“A disease that is at first hard to diagnose but easy to treat, later it becomes easy to diagnose but impossible to treat.”
That goes both for the WOT and issues such as domestic surveillance. But at this point, I’m inclined to say that the latter is more likely to arise in a more socialistic state, the kind of which many on the left advocate.
Who was it who joined hands and railed against nukes back when Reagan was President?
Do you not remember Nena, DonkeyKong? Christ, they’re signature song is the left’s ANTHEM — the irony, the pathos, the devestation, the poignant emblem reminding us of the simple times / child-like innocence of the days before the war machine sprang to life on flimsy pretexts. And to think, it all could have been prevented if only we had just said no to nukes.
Sigh.
FAIL SAFE, BABY!
They are really tied into this whole chicken-hawk meme. So, I think it is only appropriate that we refer to Donkey Kong as CHICKEN-CATERPILLAR SPEED BUMP from now on.
Donkey Kong: Let me teach you the fundamentals of good editing.
See those 2 dozen or so sentences you wrote above. Allow me to edit them down to the essential thought you are trying to convey.
CHICKENHAWKS!!!!!
See how easy that was? Thus the 2 minutes I spent reading that big pile of chest thumping slobber could have been spent on more productive measures, like trimming my nose hairs or arranging for that homicidal midget clown to visit JD. (DING DONG!) Instead, that’s 2 minutes wasted when one little word would have done just fine.
Of course, either way, you are still tagged as a
faggotloser imbecile. Have a nice day!n00b.
{Sigh} Donkeykong is like the energizer bunny. He just keeps going and going. Of course, the energizer bunny is productive, unlike our little friend here. So, this guy thinks anyone who doesn’t serve in the military, but agrees with military intervention, is a chickenhawk. So, he’s against the Iraq war. Got it. He’s about 4.5 years too late, but I’m guessing he is perpetually late on a lot of things. I’m also assuming his opinion is that jihadis are a criminal problem. No place for the military…evah! But I’m also guessing that he thinks that this administration has destroyed our civil liberties, too. Just once and for all, I would love for one of these dumb fucks to explain, first, if they think there is a problem with radical islamists at all and secondly, if there is, what in the hell would they do about it.
Hey, I thought there ought to be war bonds. The volunteers? That’s what our military is.
Dan if you want to confront Iran, and be ready for any other trhreat as well as our current commitments, a volunteer force won’t cut it.
In every other conflict we have had we’ve had a draft. This way we can make good on our policy, no matter how long the conflicy is our how far it spreads.
I just don’t see another option. because there is none.
When all is said and done, this is the only question that eally matter’s
Obstreperous Infidel, your wrong on every count. Pat yourself on the head. I notice alot of posters don’t really engage in argument, you just rant at a cartoon “liberal” that lives in your head.
A losing battle for sure.
Having our force in Iraq has worked. You may not see it, but I do. They’ve been drawn there, and killed there, and, just as importantly, lost the propaganda battle there. And so, my friend, have you.
Monkey Boy – If that is the way you see things, you need to open your good eye.
The first Gulf War, Operation Just Cause…just to name a couple.
Chicken-Caterpillar Speed Bump – Our military has decided that an all volunteer army is the optimal means of operation for them. Unless you happen to know better than them, I will defer to their expertise. The only people suggestion a draft are you on the Left. Shouldn’t you be fleeing to France sometime soon? Your inability to see solutions does not mean that there are no solutions. Frankly, it does not mean that there is a problem requiring a solution. But, assuming arguendo that there is a problem, your inability to see a solution speaks more to your lack of problem solving.
Who, other than the Left in their narrative, is calling for us to invade Iran?
You’ll pardon us if we don’t take your opinion as revealed truth now, N’Kay? We have, like real military guys who write on this blog who absolutely do not want a draft. Their opinion may have more weight than your opinion, despite your utterly uncalled inflated opinion of your infallibility.
Preen much?
Would you like to to tell us about your military service? Please, I’m sure that wishbone, Major John and RTO would be wiggling in anticipation to hear your revealed truth opinions. Of course the fact that you can’t spell or punctuate and that you think every sentence should be its own unique and special paragraph may tarnish your all knowing image.
But, hey! wishbone is in Iraq so I’m sure he’d like to hear your shining insight into military policy! Do tell!
(
faggotTool!)Donkey, you can buy a savings bond if you want. I started a small draft on my account when we went to war. I didn’t need a Democrat to tell me to sacrifice. In November when they pay interest I’ll get to see how much money I lost. Frankly, I don’t know what this accomplishes really, just doing my part is all.
and don’t forget my and Major John’s favorite, Kosovo! we still have troops there, even without a draft or bonds. hmmmmm. anyway, love how DK says it’s a stupid argument, but um, I do beleive he was the one to introduce it.
happyfeet, individuals don’t go to war, a nation goes to war. We have done that in every war we have been in. Have we been wrong all this time. Is the current commitment working?
Doing your part is fine, but is it enough.
You answer your own question at the bottom of your post.
When it comes to happy, I think we are having a coversation.
When comes to JD, BJTex, etc I’m just punching the clown.
Maggie, you can’t tell the difference between Kosovo and Iraq.
That’s just pathetic. But I’m sure you hear that alot.
uh, you said, any military conflict, and we’ve named a few, so of course it’s time to name call and change the subject. Did you serve in the 90’s?
Wait! Wait! Maybe DK is right. Institute the draft! Ration rubber and steel and nylon. Yes! Come on, maggie, give up those stockings for the good old U. S. of A. Don’t forget to put those little blinkers on your headlights at night. Loose lips sink ships! Round up all of the musselmen and put ’em in camps! Shore watchers, we need shore watchers in case the jihadists sneak up in 2 man submersibles. Rubber! Tires! Malaysia is muslim! Turn in your rubbers, er, rubber products!
WHAT ABOUT LATEX?!?!?!
While we borrow certyain analogies from WWII DK would like us to drive it like 25 year old RV. Live in the present, DK!
faggotIdiot!Chicken-Caterpillar Speed Bump
Did you just mis-type, or are you brain-poundingly stupid.
BTW – Since I hate clowns, feel free to punch them.
JD, those C-130’s get kinda breezy. maybe that’s what he meant.
Maggie – Must be, but you are attributing meaning to his statement that cannot be construed from the language used at this time, nor in the past. Maybe he intended to say something else, but just communicated poorly.
How is RTO, by the way. Have not seen his moniker around recently.
DonkeyKong, then answer the questions. They were assumptions based on your continued moronic comments. You have proven to be that “cartoon liberal” Prove us wrong. Waddya think, gameboy?
Did you just mis-type, or are you brain-poundingly stupid.
Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam.
Yes, you could cite the Mexican War or the Indian Wars as an example of not having a draft.
But you would cite that to win an argument on snark. You really are a greasy motherless pissant arent you JD?
Bet you were slapped alot when you were a toehead.
I think the current commitment is working, DK. I’ve made decisions that I would not normally make in peacetime. My coworkers are confused cause they think I’m a a pro-war environmentalist. But if I were to criticize people for not doing their part, which is not really my way, I sure don’t get a sense that asking liberals to sacrifice for the war would be a very productive thing to do. (I live in a liberal-rich environment, or a rich-liberal environment – either way.)
What made a big impression on me was in the wake of Katrina, when the people who know were GENUINELY scared with respect to oil/gas supply, so much so that Bush made a televised appeal for conservation. NPR only relayed the appeal with a snarky invocation of Jimmy Carter’s sweater, and then dropped the conservation message before that 24-hr news cycle was even over.
What they did not do was generate any programming with respect to encouraging conservation or talking about things people could do to help. I think they would have been quite happy really to see a supply chain meltdown, and I think this suggests that if an appeal were made for “shared sacrifice” with respect to the war, liberals would organize and encourage behaviors designed to actually thwart the success of such an appeal. But there’s plenty to do to help if one is of a mind to.
he’s fine, just been avoiding the interwebs… for his health. (actually, he’s masquerading as one of the “roots” here.) he’s also taking a lot of time to organize communications for the Texas branch of Vets for Freedom.
anyway, I generally try to give folks the benefit of the doubt. ;D not nearlly as much as BJTexs, but I try.
maggie: BWAAA HAHA! Sweet!
I’m thinking that it will be 45 minutes after eternity when DK acknowledges that he misspoke about the “every conflict/draft” meme. But I’m feeling charitable today (and he has offered to punch JD’s hated clowns) so I’ll help the young tyke out.
You see there, DK, if you had said “In every other worldwide conflict we’ve had we’ve had a draft,” you would have been marginally more correct, although your sentence structure would still suck. However, one of our astute military minds would start talking to you about “force projection” and “asymetrical warfare,” at which point you would be forced to curl into the fetal position and start sucking your thumb.
So admit your error, recognise when you’re (as opposed to your) in over your head and take a powder, kiddo.
We could also cite Bosnia, and the first Gulf War. But apparently they are not authentic in your view. If you meant that we could ignore certain wars because they did not fit with The Narrative, you should have stated “In every other conflict we have had we’ve had a draft” in a different manner.
As is, you were just wrong.
maggie – Now we have confirmed his intent, and he is trying to show that he was right by disqualifying any answer that proves him wrong.
I see, I was confused. I wonder what he calls those things that the military was deployed for after Vietnam. Did he just come out of a 30 year coma? is that what it is?
Maggie: I don’t think he’s out of the coma yet, judging by above…
DK – by this I mean that under Bush’s economic policies, there is a fairly large degree to which the market is being allowed to function without interference, and therefore resource allocation is about as efficient as can be hoped for.
The GDP growth and near-full employment we’ve seen reflects an economy in which policies that ask for “shared sacrifice” were likely to have been counterproductive, and I think for the most part people’s choices were their own to make.
either that or it just struck me that maybe there’s a certain casualty level that must be met before it’s considered a “military conflict”
anyhoo, back to the salt mines. I’m only here two days a week, you’d think I could stay focuse…. oh shiney!
Bosnia and the Gulf were conventional, largely air wars dipshit.
How does the current war in Iraq compare to those conflicts.
Mom: SLAP!
JD: WHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right happyfeat, 9 billion dollars disappears in Iraq, very efficient resource allocation.
To this day, Bosnia is not sovereign:
Drafts are anachronisms in an age when an American brigade has more firepower and lethality than a World War II field army.
Here’s the complication as demonstrated in Iraq: The U.S. military can take apart any nation-state on the globe at the rivets in a matter of weeks in a conventional conflict. The hard part comes afterward. The willfull historical ignorance of those who think fully functioning polities and economies spring from defeated countries like Athena from Zeus’ head is myopic and dangerous.
Positive outcomes take effort, patience, treasure, and leadership. they do not require drafts and “shared sacrifice” dressed up as more entitlement spending.
BTW DK; The vast majority of Civil War soldiers were volunteers, not draftees. From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States
I’ve bolded the important info as you have shown a persistant habit of ignoring facts to focus on your divine pronouncements.
So to recap:
Mexican War, Civil War, Spanish American War, Gulf War One, Kosovo, Somalia, Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraqi Freedom.
Geez, DK, other than the above you were right on the ball!!
Of course, we could also move forward into a comparison of current tactics vs previous global conflict tactics and how the modern nature of asymetrical warfare affects troop placement and ground tactics but I’m concerned your wittle, wittle head might explode!!!
One step at a time.
I see, I was confused. I wonder what he calls those things that the military was deployed for after Vietnam. Did he just come out of a 30 year coma? is that what it is?
Yes Maggie, the Invasion of Panama and the War in Iraq are the same.
Exactly the same.
You nailed me good kazoo-brain
Are helping to establish a democracy and deposing a dictator suitable criteria for instituting a draft?
Nine billion divided by thirteen trillion is the number you are looking for, DK. It’s likely to be kind of underwhelming, cause of the math part.
BJTexs, the Union would not have won the war without conscription.
Yes, No.
The rest of the wars you cite were short and limited, like the bus you take to school.
Guess I’m not that cavalier about 9 billion of this countries tax dollars happy, especially when it goes to shiite and sunni militias. Silly me.
And DK–$9 billion is statistical noise in a $13+ trillion economy.
Just because it fell between the cracks does not mean it was not spent.
Have you checked Congressman Jefferson’s freezer?
We were talking in the context of the economy, DK. These $9 billion dollars to not indict the efficiency of resource allocation in George Bush’s America. It’s more a question of congressional oversight really with respect to fiscal controls. They should get on that.
“Guess I’m not that cavalier about 9 billion of this countries tax dollars happy, especially when it goes to shiite and sunni militias.”
I had to pull you over, sir. You were speeding at 180 mph without a helmet and no facts.
Thanks for demonstrating the dangers of wild-ass assertions to the youngsters, though.
DK: 2% would not have made the difference so yes, the Union would still have won the war even without the draft.
As to the other conflicts being limited, you didn’t make that distiction in your original blowhard pronouncement. You obviously don’t know what the hell you are talking about but think you do, a lethal combination. I already gave you an out above but you chose to fire the snark.
So now talk about the tactical differences between the GWOT and those challenges faced with the technology at hand in the other conflicts. I’ll even give you the Civil War, which won’t help you. Now no pronouncements or insults! Give us an analysis as to how current and previous tactical situations as well as economic considerations would be positively or negatively impacted by the institution of a draft today as opposed to the real impact of the draft in those previous conflicts. I’m suren that wishbone, sitting at his terminal in Iraq, will be waiting with bated breath for your indepth reasoning. Unless you are only capable of the drive by snark.
Now is the time to show that you are a serious commentator as opposed to a puffed up cartoon insult comic. Go for it!
Why were fiscal controls placed on this money 4 years into the war. Why did’t the “fiscally responsible” republicans do their job?
Response: (insert Ted Kennedy joke here)
I dunno. Upstairs they finally got Java Monster AND those crazy good sweet rolls, so don’t harsh my Good Day.
I will recycle the can.
BJTex, I’m sure your a fountain of wisdom in the Circuit City breakroom so let me break it down for you.
The Iraqi government cannot or will not function. Members of the goverment are loyal to outside militias. Because of this we handle police, and military duties. We do this in a hostile neighborhood with dual loyalties.
And your saying we can do this with 120-160,000 men, most of whom do not speak the language.
A fucking monkey could figure out that the current policy won’t work unless we had an additional 200,000 to 300,000 men and a commitment of at least ten years, plus the luck of nothing else happening.
Fuck are you stupid!
BZZZZZST! I’m sorry, we weren’t talking about the current mission in Iraq. We were discussing your spewed assertion about a modern draft. You changed the subject and refused to support your (as opposed to you’re) contention. Thus it would be you are are stupid, not mention arrogant, clueless and possessing the writing skills of a retarded 8 year old.
It’s “you are” or “you’re” stupid, genius.
But hey, thanks for playing. Keep up the bold pronouncements with no supporting data and we’ll just assume you are a parody sockpuppet. Probably JD as he has a special talent for moronic progressive military policy wonk wannabees.
He’s all yours, wishbone. I’ve got a baseball game to watch!
Damn – President Bush should have quit listening to the military and the Generals a long time ago, and just listened to the Chicken-Capterpillar Speed Bump. He knows things that everyone else does not.
Every has a different meaning to idiots.
That was no sock puppet, BJ. That is bona fide stupid on public display.
DK,
Your reality and what I see here differ greatly. Reference my note above about expecting a democracy to spring from a country where the civil institutions were ground into the dust by a murderous, venal tyrant.
Brave people (civilian and military) are trying to help this broken country heal every day in every province in every conceivable area. The learning curve in this endeavor has been steep, but we are making progress. I hate to deflate your rant, but that is the truth of the situation.
No one that I know says its hopeless, neither do they discount the outcome of an ill-advised retreat.
I answered your question BJ. You can stop running up and down the field with the goal posts and go home.
JD: My favorite part is the spewing of bona fide stupid whilst screaming at all who engage how stupid they are. I couldn’t help but notice: all pronouncements, no links, no sources, assertion of experience, military or otherwise.
I MAKE MY OWN POLICY, FOOLS! YOU ALL ARE TEH STOOPID IF YOU DON’T AGREE WITH ME!!!
Man, it’s like fourth grade all over again. I’m beginning to miss actus.
Gotta go, Phils getting pounded by the Rocs.
no, no, see that’s YOU running up and down the field with the goalposts, while the rest of us watch. EVERY!!!! IT DOESN’T MEAN ALL THINGS!!!!
This is your statement. I bolded it, put it in italics, and quoted it for you. Despite the numerous examples showing you to be completely full of shit, you continue to maintain that you are in some way right? Aggressive ignorance.
I apologize to all human shields, and speed bumps out there. Comparing a Monkey that jumps over rolling barrels to you was an insult of the highest order.
wishbone, I can’t respond to you because your insane.
NSN Report for this Year 2007
The Baghdad Security Plan is failing to meet its security targets partly due to a lack of Iraqi Security Forces. As of June, three months after the start of the Baghdad Security Plan, American and Iraqi forces controlled less than one-third of the city’s neighborhoods, far short of the initial goal. Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks said that while military planners had expected to make greater gains that have not been possible in large part because Iraqi police and army units ― which were expected to handle basic security tasks like manning checkpoints and conducting patrols ― have not provided all the forces promised, and in some cases have performed poorly. [NY Times, 6/4/07]
The number of available-for-duty security forces (including police) is only about one-half to two-thirds of the 330,000 Iraqis that is cited by the military. The discrepancy is due to the fact that many troops have gone AWOL, quit the military, or are on leave. [DOD, 6/07]
Good Lord, it is dense. Now he knows better than wishbone.
JD, you sound like some asshole lawyer that get’s up in court and proclaims the getaway car wasnt “white” it was “eggshell”, ha!
Put that in italics, print it out and tape it to your fridge.
and it’s using citations from before the “security plan” was in full force. oh well, can’t be workin’ now.
So, you were wrong. Admit it. We all make mistakes. I certainly do. Hell, I thought you might rationally discuss something. BBBBBBBBZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTT. Wrong. I thought that at some point in time, Democrats would put security and national interest ahead of petty partisan politics. Wrong again.
“As of June”
Calendar check. I’m watching baseball playoffs.
It ain’t June.
Try again.
But you just did.
All these young Marines here in the IZ who routinely tell me they’d rather be out in Anbar–they’re insane, too, right, DK?
The USAID people getting schools built?
All those folks working with the Ministry of Electricity who have turned the corner on power generation?
And obviously General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker are crazy like me, too.
I’ll be sure to tell them both. Your assessment will be noted, DK. And then we’ll get back to work.
wishbone vs reality
NSN Iraq Progress Report 2007
In late May and early June, Baghdad suffered severe power and water shortages of up to 23 hours per day. Baghdad’s water pumping stations require electricity and currently, more than 8 of the 12 supply lines are down.
With average highs topping 110ËšF in July and August the situation has the potential to get even worse. Meanwhile, Baghdadis are forced to find their own water supply. Neighborhood co-ops are purchasing and running their own fuel-driven generators. Those who can afford to try and dig wells in their backyard, an expensive operation which also seriously affects the water table. [NSN Staff Interviews. Institute for War & Peace Reporting, 6/8/07]
Baghdad is still averaging only 5.6 hours of electricity per day. This number represents only 20% of prewar production levels. The Bush Administration’s Coalition Provisional Authority initially targeted 6,000 megawatts per day by June of 2004 and made the creation of a stable Iraqi electrical and water infrastructure a top priority. Iraq is still 40% below those levels.
The average amount of electricity generated nationally in May (The last full month of reporting) was only 3,722 megawatts, a 6% drop-off from prewar levels. This, despite an effort to distribute electricity more equitably on a national level. [Brookings Institution, 7/9/07]
Not enough potable water exists in Iraq. According to the International Red Cross, “both the quantity and quality of drinking water in Iraq remain insufficient despite limited improvement…water is often contaminated, owing to the poor repair of sewage and water-supply networks and the discharge of untreated sewage into rivers, which are the main source of drinking water.†[Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, 4/30/07]
and it’s using citations from before the “security plan†was in full force. oh well, can’t be workin’ now.
Yes maggie, the tooth fairy is coming. She knows where you live now that the “security plan” is in place.
DK, where are you at this very moment? Wishbone, same question.
Dude. That’s Rand Beers‘ phony think tank you are getting facts from. That’s just sick.
Wishbone is there. So is Ardolino. His latest on the Fallujah force here.
DonkeyKong, meanwhile, is hanging out in the comments of a web site he clearly despises calling “wingers” chickenhawks, all while hiding behind the name of an 80s video game.
Maybe I was wrong about irony being dead.
Irony can get an extra life at 7,500 points.
In my office near Lake Merritt, Oakland, CA. Just closed some big deals so I’m letting off some steam in my typical unhealthy way.
Congratulations on closing your big deals.
Remember to flush after you’ve tossed in the soiled wad of TP, k?
Are you the hall monitor Jeff?
While wishbone, the guy you insist doesn’t know shit about Iraq, is in Iraq.
You’re (see how that’s spelled?) a real fucking moron, you know that?
Thanks happy. Beats pouring concrete and laying brick. You can catch a fastball with your bare hands and hardly feel it though.
Oh he’s in Iraq so he knows all about Iraq. Are we talking about small unit tactics fuckhead. No we are not.
On that he has me beat.
Anything else is even steven, Asshole
Oakland is that place where you fly into and the terminal does not have air conditioning in the middle of summer, and that Your Muslim Bakery outfit that kills people sells you things in the terminals. I got a fish sandwich from Yusef I remember. It’s probably the closest thing to Iraq in North America, is all I’m saying.
Well, that or Detroit.
I can’t believe you said that to wishbone. That’s just … not at all cool.
You got a fish sandwich from a crackpot pedophile. In all my years here I would never set foot in one of those places.
happy if you want to read some thing on that, go to http://www.eastbayexpress.com. They an extensive series by Chris Thompson on the bakery.
Kind of the best Shield season never filmed.
Fool, you’ve got stale reports from IWPR, which is to say the media, wishbone has his boots on the ground, and you think you’re just as competent he is to address the reality of the situation? I think not. Where is your chickenhawk bullshit now, you pathetic tool?
Come on, roll some more of that out, nitwit.
happy, I was responding to Pablo.
This article Donkey was talking about really does look like a good read:
DK can say whatever he wants, gang.
A few facts (from the WaPo of all places):
ELECTRICITY:
_Prewar nationwide: 3,958 megawatts. Hours per day (estimated): four to eight.
_Sept. 18, 2007, nationwide: 5,045 megawatts. Hours per day: 11.7.
_Prewar Baghdad: 2,500 megawatts. Hours per day (estimated): 16-24.
_Sept. 18, 2007, Baghdad: Megawatts not available. Hours per day: 7.5.
I would tell DK to plot a trend from his Holy Grail July numbers, but that would be “insane.” As would any assertion that the surge is working, right, DK?
For the record–I’m in the IZ. Jeff knows who I am and what I do. I don’t go beyond that.
In Oakland?!? Imagine that.
wishbone, do you want to be in Iraq for the next ten years. Command kids that you saw in middleschool or grade school when you first deployed? Same thing, differet year. Lose Afghanistan because we can’t filfull our commitments there?
I don’t.
oh, sorry, but it’s also Be Nice To Pablo Day too here at PW.
Gee Donkey, I was in Germany 40 years after that war ended. Had a great time, too. We’ve still got guys doing the same today, 20 years later.
What commitments are we unable to fill in Afghanistan? Do you want us to be there in 10 years?
My only point is that getting Iraq statistics from Rand Beers is like getting illegal immigration statistics from Pat Buchanan. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Anybody shoot at you in Germany, Pablo?
I need Major John here to once again reiterate the media-driven idiocy that Afghansitan is being “lost” because of Iraq. Anytime three Taliban get together, they die. Losers suicide bomb. Ask Hamas.
The United States won’t have 160,000 troops in Iraq in ten years, DK. Unless we pull a Murtha. And then we will be here with 400,000 in the middle of a general regional war, the parameters of which I don’t even think a Cray supercomputer could even begin to model. And in that event, you’ll probably get your draft wish.
You don’t seem to get what the Iraqis are beginning to grasp: We don’t want to stay one day past the day the job is done. the job is difficult, not impossible and that is another point that you don’t get.
“Anybody shoot at you in Germany, Pablo?”
It wasn’t because the Commies didn’t have the plans to do so, DK.
It was because we were there.
It’s called “deterrence.”
wishbone, did the eight year Iran-Iraq War spread across the region. How bout the fourteen year Lebanon Civil War. Or the Algerian Civil War. Nope. None did. That’s a bogeyman. If we stay, the conflict get’s pushed out beyond Iraq. Al-Queda was created by the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. They feed on a foreign presence. The only recent War that became a regional conflict was Vietnam. We stayed too long.
C’mon with the “stay til the job is done.” That’s as empty headed a slogan as “No Blood for Oil.”
Better safe than sorry, I say. And also I don’t think Iran is trustworthy. We need to keep troops over there to keep an eye on them. It’s just better to err on the side of caution.
Now that’s some offensive speech.
But more importantly, it’s sub-moronic speach. In that it presumes that no one serving in Iraq has any knolwedge or experience above and beyond that of squad level tactics.
All those squads operating in and about Iraq? Apparently in DK’s feeble mind they operate totally independent of any command or support structure.
Platoons? No
Companies? No
Battalions? Hardly
Who needs or uses S-2s or S-5s? Oh wait, I think we have at least one of those (or a former one) as a regular commenter.
Any guesses how long it takes DK to google s-2 and s-5?
That’s not what I’m saying. Reread the post. Pablo claimed that any soldier in Iraq has unimpeachable knowledge. I’m saying beyond his job as a soldier, we all have access to the same info, more or less.
The decisions as to what to do next in Iraq are the property of every american. Or they damn well should be.
Clear.
Not even close, DK. I cna’t tell you how many times I read reports of events I’d been part of that bore no resemblance to what happened.
You are not getting the same info.
OK RTO, give me an example.
“Stay til the job is done” isn’t a slogan. It’s, more and more, a plea from those of us who take our jobs seriously.
Helmand and Kandahar Provinces, about this time last year. Reports in the NYT on line said that US troops stationed at Kandahar Air Field and regional FOBs were not allowed to go outside the camp because of the rising violence in the South.
I read that on returning to KAF from a town called Garmser, a trip that took us completely across both provinces. Except for the minor firefight in Garmser itself (the reason for the mission) the entire trip was punctuated by the smiling waving Afghans all along the way.
10 years? You think too small, DK. It’ll be 20 years minimum and probably closer to 40. Why? Because that’s how long it takes to do what we’ve set out to do.
There’s only one way to do it faster; kill everyone above the age of 10, move in colonists, and raise the rest as our own. It’s been a thousand years or so since that was an acceptble route to take though.
As for losing? What lose? The only way we can lose is to quit. So long as we don’t quit, it is impossible for us not to prevail.
“wishbone, did the eight year Iran-Iraq War spread across the region. How bout the fourteen year Lebanon Civil War. Or the Algerian Civil War. Nope. None did. That’s a bogeyman. If we stay, the conflict get’s pushed out beyond Iraq. Al-Queda was created by the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. They feed on a foreign presence. The only recent War that became a regional conflict was Vietnam. We stayed too long.”
I’m down with DK’s analysis. He’s got a fucking brilliant military mind. He doesn’t see a solution – can’t be one. Damn straight. Al – Queda fueled by foreign presence, whatever they say man. Regional conflicts, don’t want none of those. Those pissant other ones are OK as long as we don’t have a direct interest in them. God, I love that guy.
Did your trip sink up timewise with the NYT report of violence. Reports out of war zones can be spotty. I always take that kind of news with a grain of salt.
Smiling Afghans, I totally believe you. They are our Cold War breathren, we owe them. Doubt you’d see the same in Southern Iraq.
As far as finishing the job, Iraq is not our country. 200 years ago the French Army helped us win our Independence. When that was done, the French wanted first dibs on trade.
We signed a trade treaty with the same British we had just fought. The French began to lean on us and we threatened them with war.
We need to remember that nations want to decide their own futures.
10 years? You think too small, DK. It’ll be 20 years minimum and probably closer to 40. Why? Because that’s how long it takes to do what we’ve set out to do.
And what is it we’ve set out to do RTO. Don’t be shy.
US Conflits with no draft:
War for Independence
Shay’s Rebellion
Ohio Indian Conflicts
Whiskey Rebellion
American-French Quasi-War
Fries’ Rebellion
Gabriel’s Rebellion
Tripolitan War
War of 1812
Creek War
Seminole Wars
Vesey’s Rebellion
Various Indian Wars
Fredonian Rebellion
Turner’s Rebellion
Murrel’s Uprising
Texan War of Independence
Dorr’s Rebellion
Archive War
Bear Flag Revolt
Mexican War
Utah War
Brown’s Raids
Quantrill’s Raids
Anderson’s Raid
Samona Civil Wars
Spanish-American War
Philippine Insurrections
Moro Wars
Panamanian Revolution
Nicaraguan Civil Wars
Hatian Revolt
Villa’s Raids
Lebanese Civil Wars
(another) Nicaraguan Civil War
Grenada Invasion
Gulf War
Panama Invasion
Yugoslavian Civil Wars
It synchs better than using reports from 5 months ago to support an argument.
The NYT story was published the day we returned from our mission. What more synching do you need?
Deciding their own future? So you agree that comments from Harry Pelosi and Nancy Reid that al-Maliki should be replaced (not to mention “benchmarks” imposed by a US Congress that is incapable of meeting any given set of benchmarks of its own) are irresponsible and smack of imperialism. Real imperialism; not the usual Progerssive definition of “use of the military by a Republican.”
How do you not know what we’ve set out to do?
To help Iraq develop a sustainable democratic form of government. No one in history has done it in less than 20 years.
We also owe the Iraqis for inciting them to revolt in 1992 and then not helping when they did. Somehow, there are people who are actually willing to repeat that on a far worse and larger scale.
I said I was refering to the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam, smartass.
Of the conflicts you listed, which one is an apples to apples comparison to Iraq.
I’d have to say, none.
however Shay’s Rebellion, that one was a corker.
So you agree that comments from Harry Pelosi and Nancy Reid that al-Maliki should be replaced.
No, I don’t. Replaced Diem in Vietnam, that worked out well.
None of the Nicraguan or Haiti intervnetions compares? I’d suggest that you are simply ignorant of those efforts. Look to Haiti, in fact, for a (wildly optomistic) best case outcome in Iraq if we quit.
Why don’t the Yugolsavian Civil Wars compare favorably? Intensity? Give me a break.
And of course you cherrypick the only conflicts where we had conscription. Not real honest.
Perhaps you’d be good enough to draw the strong paralles you see between Irag and any of the conflicts on your list.
Also, you should please note that you said “every other conflict.” I simply accepted your words. Perhos you should try to be more clear.
BWAH HA HA HAAAAAA…. which of those is an “apples to apples” comparison to Iraq? but we’ve never had a conflict without a draft. or bonds. you forgot that one. and you’ll keep moving the goalposts and calling names. yay!
You really think so?
And you’re willing to go on the record as supportive of Imperialist tactics like that?
Hell, I can’t even type good and I’m more understandable than you, apparently.
Your kinda slow RTO, I was being sarcastic
How are we going to occupy Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 or 40 years without a draft or any allies.
Maybe maggie and her tooth fairy “security plan” can help, yay!
Considering that NATO is already in charge of most of Afghanistan, it might be easier than you think. and there’s also the training of native forces to eventually handle most security, but then we’re going to get into HOW LONG it takes to train a competent (fill in the blank/level of soldier/officer/security person) and trolls generally aren’t up for that.
DK, you don’t communicate well enough to attempt sarcasm.
No allies? Were the Brits, French, Dutch, Canadians, Estonians, Croatians, Poles, Spaniards, Portugese, Jordanians, Turks, Italins, Greeks, Norwegians, Albanians, Australians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Danes, Kiwis, Mongolians, Macedonians, Lithuanians, Swedes, Slovaks, Slovenes, Koreans, Danes, Nepalese, Hungarians, Germans and Lativians that I saw, lived and worked with just figments of my imagination.
RTO, who are our next biggest allies in Iraq, and how many troops do they have. How many non-U.S. allies do we have. Quit playing games and learn to talk straight.
maggie seez everything is going to be superduper. We don’t need to plan ahead, heroin poppy fields will turn into lollypop fields, yay!
Maggie, you have four stars written all over you. Step aside Petreaus.
actually, i’ve just read what his advisers have to say, not hard to do really.
You go first. we’ve been waiting….
course there’s also the small matter that Petreaus is the commander of IRAQI forces and not Afghanistan. but whatever, I’m coasting at this point.
Zing! you got me mag, yay!
w007!!!
Sorry, I mean Adm William Fallon.
Around 17,000 in theater. I’m sure you’re all exercised about 1,000 Brits leaving (of which half already have, which doesn’t keep PM Brown uing the original figure to make is sound like more) and perhaps (doubtfully, but perhaps) you even know that North Korea is projected to draw down another 1200 or so. You alomst certainly arent’ aware that Georgia will increase it’s deployments, keeping the total non-US troop level at about the same level.
And of course, you are unaware that it’s all a big multinational rotation going on to accomplish just that. It’s a plan and cooperation between allies.
BTW, you and so many Progs are so keen to quit, have any of you consuolted with our allies to see what they think about it? Bill Richardson and Dennis Kucinich, for examples, seem willing to chop all of them in the neck to run away. What’s that kind of disregard do for our standing internationally and the state of our alliances.
FWIW, there are presently 21 other nations represented in Iraq.
Alright, back in your cages, gotta go.
North Korea…
dur. South Korea obviously.
but wait! you forgot to declare victory!
Filtered through the Prog-o-lator: “Too…many…informed…opinions and…facts. Must…withdraw!”
North Korea is an ally? RTO, check the skunk date on your Jim Beam. You are posting like you are high on PCP.
No you win mag. Spit in your hand and make a wish. Then open it. It’s your special present. yay!
so, who needs the last word?
– DonkeyDong. Clue up: Using a video game handle is not a real good choice when you’re conversing with adults. Log it under “Aw shit”.
Donkey Kong,
Why don’t you quote where I said that, douchebag?
I checked out after the Rockies/Phils–it was getting late here. Where to start?
A. I do not have unimpeachable knowledge. I do have a great deal more knowledge than DK. Seen daily, if not hourly.
B. DK, at least give the appearance of being consistent. No one in the military or diplomatic sides of the house in Iraq nor the President wishes to remove Maliki. That suggestion finds its source in the vaunted chambers of congress. Therefore, your Diem comparison makes no sense.
In addition, Vietnam was lost because the United States packed up and left–not because of Diem’s removal. At RTO said above, that’s the only way we “lose” in Iraq.
C. Ah, the regional war is a “bogeyman.” Lebanon borders two countries–and Israel and Syria did fight in Lebanon, repeatedly even, during the course of the Civil War there.
The Iran/Iraq War was a stalemate because neither side had effective military leadership. You also might recall that it ended in 1988–when the Cold War was still on. The U.S. and Soviets did many things during the Cold War to keep things in many places from getting out of hand.
Now? No Soviet Union. Iran’s proxies Hamas and Hezbollah hide behind the UN and the media. Proliferation of missile technology to Iran and Syria. Naked nuclear ambitions are on display. Donkey Kong seems to be unable to give Tehran credit for meaning what it says and how that ties in with the proliferation issue.
I don’t think the Mid-East is an area where one waves off possibilities with flawed historical analysis and an unwillingness to confront perhaps the greatest tidal forces of human history: Seemingly insignificant events and/or unforeseen outliers drive great waves of change.
Example: A frustrated artist with Oedpial issues becomes leader of an entire industrialized nation. The beginnings of his persecution of a minority group results in the brightest minds in that group emigrating. Those emigres carry the secret for weapons so powerful that their new home is able to stare down its main rival until the internal contradictions of the rival bring about its collapse.
So, appeasing the mullahs, equating Iranian possession of the bomb with the Israeli arsenal, and pooh poohing scenarios based on nothing more than wishful thinking and Bush Derangement Syndrome are elements of a policy that only makes the world MORE uncertain. Some may take comfort in that. I do not.
Writes DonkeyKong, after spending two days trotting out the chickenhawk argument:
Were irony not dead, that’d be funny, I think.
Though not funny ha ha; more like funny wry smile and a rub of the chin, then knock back a bit of Lagavulin 16 year before reading the latest Buckley column..
OK wishbone, Pay close attention.
DK, at least give the appearance of being consistent. No one in the military or diplomatic sides of the house in Iraq nor the President wishes to remove Maliki. That suggestion finds its source in the vaunted chambers of congress. Therefore, your Diem comparison makes no sense.
Honestly, we have no way of knowing this. But to think the administration is happy with the Maliki government is a stretch. Any party member in congress rarely think for themselves. This drum beat is comig from somewhere.
Ah, the regional war is a “bogeyman.†Lebanon borders two countries–and Israel and Syria did fight in Lebanon, repeatedly even, during the course of the Civil War there.
Yes, both Syria and Israel got involved in the Civil War. A good case can be made that they prolonged it. But the War did not spill out to other countries in the region despite it’s fourteen year length.
The Iran/Iraq War was a stalemate because neither side had effective military leadership. You also might recall that it ended in 1988–when the Cold War was still on. The U.S. and Soviets did many things during the Cold War to keep things in many places from getting out of hand.
No not quite. During the eight year war, both sides fought ww1 style trench warfare. Brutal shit. However, they never bombed each others oil facilities. Now if they wanted to do that during the course of the war, there would be nothing us or the soviets could do.
Everything after that section of your post is you arguing with the liberal that lives inside your head. So that guy can adress the rest of your post.
Good exchange wishbone. Good stuff.
You do understand, DK, that to condescend to someone, you sorta have to have the stature to condescend to them in the first place?
Heavy sigh.
“Honestly, we have no way of knowing this. But to think the administration is happy with the Maliki government is a stretch.”
Yeah, we do. The President said so and the Secretary of State and the Ambassador and General Petraeus. And there is a wide policy gulf between “Let’s throw a coup!” and being “happy” with someone.
I said: Iraq and Iran had ineffectual military leadership during their war. DK said: “During the eight year war, both sides fought ww1 style trench warfare. Brutal shit. However, they never bombed each others oil facilities.”
If that was supposed to be a refutation, try again.
And let’s remember that your point was the war did not result in a general war and then you point out the inability of the Soviets or ourselves to stop an action within the confines of the bilateral war.
One more time, try again.
As for the exchange in my head–I said: “I don’t think the Mid-East is an area where one waves off possibilities with flawed historical analysis and an unwillingness to confront perhaps the greatest tidal forces of human history: Seemingly insignificant events and/or unforeseen outliers drive great waves of change.”
Please correct me if I am wrong in believing that your assumptions are that the Iraq policy is failed, we should withdraw, and the aftermath will just work itself out with little or no fallout.