Allow me to paraphrase Jim Moran’s (D-VA) latest attempt to pigeonhole the party of Abraham: “It’s not that I think all Jews are sneaky Zionist fifth-columnists using their outsized wealth to run a shadow government — relying both on their near-total control of the media and their ability to buy politicians to assume clandestine control of US foreign policy. Just, you know, the rich, sneaky, fifth-columny ones with all the media ties and political connections.
“The rest I think are just swell!
“And before you go calling me an anti-Semite, you should know that I once owned a 1956 Topp’s Sandy Koufax in near-mint condition — and that I absolutely adored Streisand in What’s Up, Doc? — which, I think you’ll find, was also directed by a Heeb…”
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(via Extreme Mortman; h/t CJ Burch. See also, Colbert King)
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update: “A New Strain of Anti-Semitism is Spreading”.
On the plus side, maybe Troy Tulowitzki will beat out Ryan Braun for NL rookie of the year after all.
So the glass, it is half full!
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(Related reading: Rene Girard’s Scapegoat.)
Interesting how Moran takes up the “mainstream US Jewish opinion” meme he thinks excuses his disturbing remarks about that other Jewish organization that is pro-Israel. It’s kinda like Kosskiddies and MoveOn declaring themselves the new center.
Note that WaPo describes Tikkun as merely: “a California-based Jewish magazine.”
Tikkun is a LEFTIST-PROGRESSIVE magazine and Michael Lerner, as its editor, has allowed very specific anti-Israel articles to be published.
You sure Tulowitzki isn’t just a big, dumb Polack?
Moran? Moran? That’s a funny name for a Puerto Rican.
Braun is the Jew, Craig.
And it’s such a good German name, too.
Umm, yeah. Sensing a pattern here. Wait! Wait… it’s coming to me…
I’ll never forgive my parents for not letting me in on the Conspiracy.
Jew bastards.
“(AIPAC) is “the most powerful lobby and has pushed this war from the beginning. I don’t think they represent the mainstream of American Jewish thinking at all, but because they are so well organized, and their members are extraordinarily powerful  most of them are quite wealthy  they have been able to exert power.—
Is this a falsehood? Then detail the errors. Otherwise;
“Methinks, Thou dost protest too muchâ€Â.
oh, somebody didn’t read the links….
It’s a question of context. Look at the history of such comments and who made them, and look at Moran’s past associations and comments. I’m sure that being a nuanced liberal, you’re aware that something can be factually correct and still carry certain implications. Which means that you’re just being alphie. Which is kind of sad.
Just like a Jew.
Two words, Leo: George Soros.
“still carry certain implications.”
Criticising those within a certain race or ethnicity need not recoil the critique itself if is has substance. Those with the temerity to suggest all such criticisms must have their source in racism should make their bricks without straw and see if such hold their shape.
In any agenda driven issue, the question should always be asked;
“Who stands to gain by the action/inaction?”
Comment by Semanticleo on 9/15 @ 11:40
“Is this a falsehood? Then detail the errors. Otherwise;”
Yes it is. AARP is America’s most powerful lobbying group. Here. Let me show you the door.
Come on, that’s two obtuse comments in a row. Where did I say that all such criticisms must have their source in racism? Who’s protesting too much, now?
“Who’s protesting too much, now?”
I assumed you meant anti-semtism when you said implications…..
So, what ARE the implications?
For those who believe that Moran is not expressing an anti-Semitic sentiment, we need only examine what he is saying, not the many similar examples of his attempts to smear AIPAC.
Let’s analyze Moran’s beliefs in his own words:
“Moran said the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is “the most powerful lobby and has pushed this war from the beginning.’â€Â
Well, as it has been revealed, the Israeli government did not consider Iraq to be their biggest enemy. That honor was reserved for Iran, currently developing a nuclear weapon. In fact, Israel opposed the attack on Iraq because they believed it would distract America from Iran. So, no, AIPAC has not pushed this war from the beginning. Some people commonly referred to as “neo-conservatives†and generally assumed to be limited to Jews, have been proponents of this war, but to conflate their views with either AIPAC or with Israel is simply not true. However, if you are of the opinion that a large group of wealthy Jews are directing American foreign policy, this whole thing makes sense. In the same way that “Mein Kampf†makes sense.
“I don’t think they represent the mainstream of American Jewish thinking at all, but because they are so well organized, and their members are extraordinarily powerful  most of them are quite wealthy  they have been able to exert power.â€Â
And here we have again the paranoid claim that wealthy Jews are directing American foreign policy. The assumption is that American foreign policy under Bush would have been different if Bush were not under the influence of AIPAC. That George Bush would be agreeing with that French diplomat that called Israel “that shitty little country.â€Â
Now Jim Moran may have information about the hidden agenda of AIPAC that only he is aware of, but if you go to AIPAC’s website http://aipac.org/about_AIPAC/default.asp you will find exactly NO references to the war in Iraq. That’s right: zip, zero, nada, NO references to support for the war in Iraq. Isn’t it amazing that this supposed cheerleader for American involvement in Iraq should not trumpet that support? Why not Jim, or anyone else who wants to claim that Jim Moran is not spouting nonsense, and anti-Semitic nonsense at that.
Did you stay up really late last night, or something? Of course anti-semitism is the implication. But you claimed I said all such criticisms stem from racism when I said no such thing. In fact, if you’ll go back and actually read what I wrote, I specifically said the context in which such statements are made must be evaluated.
Do you deny that those statements have, historically, often been made to impugn the patriotism if Jews and imply that they’re more loyal to Israel than the United States? And given Moran’s history, do think it’s injustified to raise that question?
Or unjustified.
“Do you deny that those statements have, historically, often been made to impugn the patriotism if Jews”
“Jim Moran’s (D-VA) latest attempt to pigeonhole the party of Abraham:”
Does AIPAC represent the Jewish race? No, it represents Israel.
No attempt was made in any of the links, (with the exception of ‘wealth’ and other terms which might incite the paranoid) to ‘pidgeon-hole’ the Jews in this country. At least, nothing I saw indicated such.
Israel is a Nation with national interests. Those interests are not necessarily the interests of American Jews and I see no suggestion otherwise.
I think the speech was plagiarized from Jimmy Carter.
Maybe academics will cringe at that more than the anti semitism
Ok, if you’re going to continue to deliberately miss the point and argue irrelevant tangents, I give up. As I said, there’s a certain troll here who does that fine all on his own, and I don’t bother with him either. Most of the time.
“if you’re going to continue to deliberately miss the point”
It’s fairly easy to miss a point that is vague and ephemeral, but
if it’s your wish to remain so, sobeit.
Let’s leave the Sobeits out of this.
I said, “Good day,” madam.
hmmmm, but then that’s coming from some jooooos themselves… but feel free to search their site and find their Iraq position. my connection is wonky today and I didn’t feel like spending more than 15 minutes on it. or maybe it’s some secret email list only those “New York money people” get.
Semanticleo, dolt:
Re: Your original “question.”
If you had read, well, anything, you would have observed that it has already been pointed out that neither is AIPAC by any means the most powerful lobby, unless of course you’re just counting Jooooos, nor have they “pushed this war from the beginning.”
Which basically just puts the last candle on Moron’s anti-semitic cake. Or have you just not noticed that this isn’t the first time he’s pulled this crap? Pattern recognition is an important skill.
CraigC, you should know better than to engage Semanticleo. And before you call my a hypocrite, be aware that while it LOOKS like I’m engaging Semanticleo, I’m actually just pointing and laughing. Nuance.
[…] is a comment to Jeff’s post here about a Democratic Senator’s concerns about Jewish influence, and how that influence, […]
I DEMAND SOMEBODY GIVE THAT MINION PIE!
You can just call me “Craig,” and I’ll just call you…..I’ll just call you…..”Merovign.”
And that is so wrong on so many levels it would boggle the mind if such a statement came from any reasonably educated fellow
then there’s Cleo
McGehee:
Pie.
Craig:
I’ve been called worse, more often than not. :)
Of course AIPAC represents the interests of Israel. It says so right on its website: “America’s Pro-Israel Lobby.” The Jewish race itself would be tangential. Jews aren’t the only ones living in Israel; get off the race-baiting crap, which you are trying to inflame, not Moran. Israel justly deserves criticism, and so do its drumbeaters.
Where did all teh nuance go cynn? Here’s a fun game. Go to a little coffee shop in Cairo. Bring your own coffee. Tell your new friends that the lobby in Amerikkka that works for Israel started the Iraq war and is allowed to do so secretly because it controls the media. I’d bet not a one of them brings up teh Joooos, but just maybe I could be wrong about that, and that your new friends actually would draw inspiration from your words. After that you could all go shopping for vests.
Jews aren’t the only ones living in Israel, true. But, strangely, not too many Jews live in Gaza.
I don’t believe that AIPAC started the war, nor do I believe it controls the media. It is a powerful lobby, but it has every right to exist, just as Israel, which is an important ally of ours.
Just thought it funny that in one breath PWers decry the stifling of open debate because of the PC privileging of one voice over another, while in the the next breath seeking to marginalize those who would dare question the motives of a nation’s lobby as joo-haters. Really kills the chitchat at keggers, you know.
I think this guy addresses your point pretty well, cynn.
and from the comments there…
You can’t predicate “open debate” on an acceptance of the sort of insinuations Moran makes. Those insinuations actually, and calculatedly, retard debate.
…while in the the next breath seeking to marginalize those who would dare question the motives of a nation’s lobby as joo-haters.
No, we’re trying to marginalize this guy as a particularly transparent Joo-hater, and I have a really hard time believing that you don’t understand that, especially since your argument (taking a specific accusation and saying it’s invalid because it shows a general prejudice) is such a common tactic of the Left.
– cynn – The truth is the entire Islamic world should thank Allah that the Jewish state is neither blood thirsty nor aggressive. Because were they, the WOT could be over in a matter of a month. Think about it.
The whole bizarre contention that “you can’t criticize Israel” rings about the same as the moonbatical claim of Gillian Anderson that “There’s no free speech anymore,” followed of course by a diarrheal torrent of free speech.
Criticism of Israel isn’t absent, it’s constant. Cowed acceptance of anti-semitic blather is what’s absent.
Go ahead and criticize Israel. Just don’t expect everyone to bow and call you “master” in the process.
Haven’t we had this argument about “stifling the debate” before? Criticism isn’t censorship, no matter how many words you use to try to make it so. We aren’t censoring Moron, for crying out loud, we’re just pointing out that he’s an idiot.
Personally, given the amount of shit Israel takes, in terms of criticism, and threats, and in terms of CONSTANT LETHAL ATTACKS by their psycho neighbors, I’m not particularly interested in petty whining about how they’re not willing to keep wiping the asses of the people who are trying to kill them, or that they (God forbid) advocate for their own survival.
No, criticism is not censorship; that is light years away from my point. I am not trying to make it so, and I will not fall into the right-wing flytrap. Moran may or may not be an idiot. He’ll stand or fall on his own. I really don’t care, and don’t have a dog in this fight. Pre-emptively trying to shut him down, and using the same breast-clutching horror that you routinely decry the left uses to quarantine anyone who tries to speak out, is dismissive.
For me, this issue is not whether AIPAC and other pro-Israeli lobbies are run by hook-nosed, skulking, conspiring, wealthy, backstabbing joos or not. Moran is simply raising a question, and the posse springs into action to corner him.
The last time he was “simply raising a question,” he got his ass kicked out of the Congressional leadership. By Democrats. The image of Pelosi clutching her breasts in horror is probably a fairly apt one though. Good point.
Again, since you failed to address my point and simply repeated your assertion, we’re not trying to “pre-emptively shut him down,” we’re making comments based on this specific situation, and his specific history. No one here has said that’s it’s never all right to criticize Israel.
– I notice you failed to respond to my assertion cynn, so I’ll make the same point another way. Site a single case in the entire short history of the modern Israel state when they aggressed without provocation, and usually very serious provocation at that.
– And no, I’m not a blind advocate for Israel.
Big Bang: First of all, what did the big bang sound like? To respond, I can’t cite a case where Israel agressively militarily attacks a surrounding nation. But how is that relevant. Also, Craig, if you can make an independant case that this Moran is truly anti-semitic, I’ll review your argument and go from there.
Oh, for pete’s sake. It’s already been made. It’s called the original post. Did you even read the links? What do you want, video of Moran dancing around a bonfire of burning dreidels chanting “Death to the Jooooos?”
I’m starting to think Friday and Saturday nights are not good times to engage Cynn.
Sorry, I don’t see anti-semitic there. I see an old man with a big mouth spouting some unfortunate remarks around a pro-Israeli lobby. I would recommend you not dilute the anti-Jewish/anti-semitic appellation, because then you have lost control of it.
McGehee: you got stiffed too?
– cynn – To answer your first question, there was no audible “bang” as such, assuming for the sake of argument there could be an organism extant at the time that would be able to “hear” phenomena in the form of physio-mechanical vibrations. In order to transmit sound you need a medium such as a molecular/atom based gas, or atmosphere in common terms, in oder to “sense” said energy vibrations.
– Shorter answer. No gassie, no bangie, and a good thing too, because the vibrations from such an event would give you a very big booboo, instantly distroying the atoms in your ear drum (actually your entire being) right down to the quarks. It took something like 3 minutes for the embryonic universe to cool down sufficiently to even start to form hydrogen atoms, the simplest element.
– As to the “why” my question is pertinent, one of the elements assumed in the majority of “Israel must be bad somehow” screeds is the concept of moral equivalency. You’ve heard of it I’m sure. Except in this case it rests on even shakier ground than usual because it usually stems from “Those damn Jews are so much better at things they have an unfair advantage over the poor Islamists” types of “feelings”, rather than any reasonable moral code.
– I tend to try to stay away from feelings when an ethnic groups very existant is being threatened for no damn reason at all, save a self-appointed claim.
You’re apparently seeing a comma in my observation, between the 14th and 15th words. There isn’t one.
Hydrogen is a simple element but it’s still one of my favorite ones. It knows how to form some nearly unbreakable alliances, and to treat them with respect.
– Yes Feets, which in turn leads to the common saw – “When the Universe gives you hydrocarbons, make lemons.”
McGehee: you’ve got a lotta time on your hands. Use it wisely.
Bib bang: You and me both; whew, dodged that one!
Sorry, I should have said, use THEM wisely. Snap.
Cynn —
If you are defending Moran out of ignorance, then you do have a dog in this fight — and it’s the wrong one.
If you know of his history and are defending him in anyway, you most definitely have a dog in this fight, and it’s a German Shepard.
No one has tried to shut Moran down. In fact, I like it when he lets the mask slip. Because it serves as a reminder that to his ilk Jews will be tolerated should they know their place and makeup their part of the liberal coalition. Those who don’t? Part of the vast conspiracy to control US foreign policy through a powerful lobby, shady dealings, control of the media, control of international banking, etc.
Just ask Wesley Clark.
If you haven’t yet done so, do your research on Moran. Or just keep on yapping — but don’t be surprised if a little bit of Moran’s stink sticks to you.
OK, if you say so, Moran is a filthy pig. Your say-so is good enough. I don’t need to research this racist sicko; your word is gold. It’s now Moran’s responsibility to clear his name. Like how it alwayss works!!!
cynn,
Now that is just being lazy. Try harder.
Starting to dawn on you you might have backed the wrong horse here, cynn?
Because if so, the proper response is not to compound the error by trying to dismiss those who gave you the tip on the right horse in the first place.
Just send candy or flowers.
Cynn, there are times when you can be insightful, interesting, engaging and in fact a delight to behold (in writing, anyway).
This is not one of those times.
I suspect it’s Gin, but I could be wrong.
In any case, I’m more than content to let you bang your head against the imaginary Wall Of Oppression that you’ve imputed upon us. Hopefully when you’re “feeling better” you can look back on this conversation and understand exactly where you went wrong.
WRT “don’t need to research,” as I always say and sometimes observe, “don’t know nothin’, don’t say nothin’.”
You know, I’m starting to suspect that the lot of you (cynn and Cleo excepted, of course) are a bunch of Joooooos or Joooooo-lovers. C’mon, fess up–how much are those New York Money Men paying you all to smear the Right Honorable Rep. Moran for speaking truth to hook-nosed, shadowy Zionist Occupation Government power?
Feets. You’re a frickein’ hoot.
Cynn. The only thing missing from Moran’s ‘analysis’ was a cartoon of a bearded hook-nosed jew with a giant moneybag in his fist. As a matter of fact he pretty much used the discription Dr. Goerbbles used in the 1930s.
Like I said: Friday and Saturday nights.
Right now, though, it’s time for Johnny Cash to sing a little tune written by Kris Kristofferson. Right, Cynn? (Notice the comma.)
No, there’s no wall of oppression to blame. shine on you crazy diamond.
I’m not sure what you guys want. Just guessing.
“I see an old man with a big mouth spouting some unfortunate remarks…”
I want to know why you think the remarks were unfortunate?
AIPAC expenditures.
For some reason, I can’t get the AARP expenditures to post in a view like that, but for reference, in 2004 their expenditures were $8M, and in 2000 their expenditures were $4M. One might say they’re ramping up. Oddly, their odd-year expenditures were, in 2005, $36M, and in 2003, $20M. Still, many times larger than AIPAC. AARP, though, isn’t even close to the largest. AMA is at least twice as big. For those disinclined to clickee the linkee, AIPAC is around $1M a year; nowhere near enough to, say, engineer an elaborate deception of male Arabs hijacking airplanes and running them into skyscrapers.
Cynn called me a diamond! I think I’m going to go and frolick for a while.
Sans Gin, of course. You could get accident that way… drinking and frolicking don’t mix.