Republican Lincoln Diaz-Balart, addressing a La Raza conference in South Florida last month, tells the radical separatist group, “It is important that we emphasize the Spanish language.â€Â
Because, you know, assimilation is a racist enterprise, and English is the language of the oppresser class.
Diaz-Balart’s pro-business, free-market stance is laudable. But the irony of his railing against totalitarianism while addressing La Raza and promoting the kind of multiculturalist pap that, of necessity, will ultimately engender divisiveness, appears lost on him.
It is one thing to be proud of one’s ethnic or cultural heritage, which of course includes the celebration of one’s “native” tongue. But it is another thing entirely to give cover to a cultural practice that works to keep communities divided.
English may not be the “official” language of the US, but its usage as an unofficial official language is an important (pragmatic) component of American culture, and one of the key components for an assimilationist model of social organization — a model that has proven most amenable to pluralism and opportunity-based egalitarianism.
Emphasizing the Spanish language might feel good — and there is nothing wrong with embracing what one believes to be his or her “heritage”; at the same time, however, if the emphasis of a “native” tongue other than English interferes with the project of assimilation, than such an emphasis is interfering with that part of the American social experiment that has shown itself to be most durable, and most successful as a precursor toward promoting individual freedom.
Which is not to say we couldn’t conceivably flip the variables and promote Spanish as our lingua franca: after all, once we cease using English as a common cultural indicator, it will cease to be a common cultural indicator, and will be replaced by whatever cultural indicator the culture adopts for such a purpose.
But the question is, why would we do so, when we have a history and infrastructure based around an established language that has served us quite well to this point?
Damn gringo.
Ay chingala!
SB: monarchy unarmed
Have these people no cultural pride? Spanish is the language of their conquerors. To speak Spanish is to honor the conquistadors and the original euro-imperialist oppressors from Spain.
If Mexico embraces English, I’d go along for the ride, but hugs really kind of suck when only one person is doing all the hugging.
I’ll give you one reason why Spanish doesn’t work all that well in the U.S. environment: it sux when it comes to technical terminology.
I once wrote a user manual in English, then had to translate it into Spanish. It about drove me nutz (casi me saca del quicio).
Even with the help of the native-speaking tech writers at wordreference.com, I was ready to send the project spinning out of the window. Spanish just doesn’t adapt well to English’s hard-biting, preposition adjectival, technical precision. Half the time, computer users in Spanish-speaking countries just use the English term anyway because they don’t translate into Spanish that well or there are a half-dozen different translations, depending if you’re in Mexico, Spain, or Argentina.
hard drive = disco duro or disco rÃÂgido
scroll down = n. desplazar la pantalla hacia abajo con el cursor, adj. nothing. No “scroll-down menu”
The fact that in English you can put a noun in front of another noun to create a new, compact term, e.g., face plant, is positively liberating, whereas in Spanish you have to string your adjectives off the end of your nouns with prepositional phrases. A pain, a mouthful, and not fun at all.
Though I’ll give credit where it’s due: if you put the suffix -azo after a noun, it creates another noun that means “a blow with that object,” e.g., combine zapato (shoe) with -azo and you get zapatazo, or a smack with a shoe.
Le di un zapatazo = I whacked him with my shoe.
TW: 1274 treason; um, not in this thread. Dumb machine.
Le di un galloazo?
dicentra – Thanks for the lesson. I am enamored with learning languages, and that was a new tip for me.
So, would cockslap be pengazo or peneazo? What would be the best way to translate mushroom bruise? ;-)
Le di un pengazo.
Pinche gabacho Latino-haters!
You won’t learn the language of our Aztec forefathers that founded this continent but you’ll eat the shit outta our carne asada burritos and rolled tacos won’t you ?
Pendejos.
Viva Raza ! – “Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada”
tw: value lvying… sure , at 3 for $2.00 I’ll take a dozen of the greasy bastardos..
Pinche gabacho – doesn’t that loosely translate to white asshole? In my experience, most assholes are not white, more like chocolate starfish. Just sayin’
At the end of the day, there is some truth to the idea that the Rs can’t be all about writing Hispanics out of their coalition. So what is the plan there? God I hate Castro. That’s all I got.
“Pinche gabacho” = “fucking white boy”
SB: accepting lottery
Excuse me, I need to go buy a lotto ticket…
Why don’t we have people assimilate to the new america, which has people that speak spanish and english? I mean, who among us really has a problem with Sabado Gigante?
When you look at the directions on your new whatsit, you’ll note that Spanish, and usually French if present, simply requires more words.
What’s truly sad about leaders in the Latino community promoting the Spanish language to the exclusion of English is the economic consequences: Don’t want to learn to speak fluent English? Fine. You’re doomed to changing sheets, cleaning the pool, and mowing lawns. Some leader, that.
I’m going to arrogantly assume the mantle of Absolute Moral Authority™ as the grandson of two sets of Portuguese immigrants.
What the frag is he talking about?
None of my Grandparents spoke English when they arrived in the early 1900’s. They settled in New Bedford, MA which had a substantial and growing Portuguese community. Gradually they all learned to communicate with the outside world (although one grandmother never quite got the hang of it, creating some interesting communication scenarios with her grandchildren.) Their children learned American English, listened to Big Band music, shopped with the Sears catalog, discovered Zoot suits and played soccer and baseball. My father was determined to be an American; so determined in fact that he got into a huge argument with a customs officer in Portugal who insisted, because of his last name, that he be passed as Portuguese. The flip side of that Americanization was that my siblings and I never learned the language. However we had wonderful family gatherings, bilingual, where we learned traditions and history, knowledge that I carry to this day. My grandmothers lived to see two of their grandchildren attend Ivy League schools.
At no time during this process were we or our relatives confined to our own communities nor were we exhorted to emphasize the Portuguese language. In fact, the least successful of my many cousins (Mom was the oldest of 16 children) were the ones who isolated themselves within the community.
If our Republican friend is promoting the idea of a permanant “Little Mexico” within the US, he is condemning many of his fellow citizens (or illegals) to self-selected second class citizenship.
I shall now remove the mantle of Absolute Moral Authority™ and give it back to Cindy Sheehan so that she can swat Pelosi upside the head.
Figuratively speaking, of course!
tw: sowing rules reaping regulations, harvesting Democrats
My God, all the anger out there about this stuff! Spanish is my first language. I love reading certain works of literature in Spanish, and I think it’s a beautiful language. But most of all, I enjoy the music, especially old-school salsa, Fania All Stars, El Gran Combo. For me, being able to be fully bilingual has made my life richer just because of the fact that I can appreciate art, literature, and different cultures, fully.
However, I completely agree that one of the most important things to keep social cohesion is the ability for that society to share a common language. In the U.S., that is American English. So I think it’s extremely important that people, no matter their native language, whether it be Cantonese, or French, or Spanish, try their best to learn English and embrace it. I fully understand why English-only speakers get frustrated while trying to conduct business in certain areas. I’ve seen it with my own eyes; if a person that “looks” as if she “should” know Spanish, is not able to speak the language, in certain communities and businesses she is looked at with suspicion and sometimes disdain; the same with any other English speakers. You should be able to go to any business in the U.S., no matter where it is, and expect to be attended to in English.
This has nothing to do with appreciating your native language (as JeffG mentions), but on understanding the importance of sharing a common language in order to maintain social cohesion. That’s just my two cents…
Depends. Do I have to watch it whether I want to or not? Will it be on PBS and therefore funded with my tax dollars?
If the answer to either of these questions is “No,” then I pronounce your strawman living-impaired.
(TW: important Athenians — okay, who’s picking the Turing phrases now? Alphie? Actus? Some threadjacking troll to be named later?
Question: is there any disagreement, ever, in which you do not see “anger”?
“Do I have to watch it whether I want to or not? ”
Am I talking about straw men or are you?
“Will it be on PBS and therefore funded with my tax dollars?”
I don’t think it will be Sabado Gigante (ever see it?) but I wouldn’t put it past PBS realizing it might be a good idea that people know Spanish.
“This has nothing to do with appreciating your native language (as JeffG mentions), but on understanding the importance of sharing a common language in order to maintain social cohesion.”
How hard would it be for there to be two common languages?
How hard would it be for there to be two common languages?
Twice as hard, I’d reckon.
———–
Question: is there any disagreement, ever, in which you do not see “anger�
———–
Rob, yes, when there isn’t any; like in this reply to you now. There is no anger, or “harsh” words expressed. If on the other hand, I reply with a “I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about”, then that’s a little more pointed, and could be interpreted at hostile language by a reasonable reader. Read the post starting from number one and let me know if you find the language and interaction civil, or vitriolic, at least in some of the postings. My statement about anger however wasn’t the point of my posting, as you could easily see by reading it. I hope that answers your questions, my friend.
“Twice as hard, I’d reckon.”
I think kids pick up two languages without too much trouble. And this way we wouldnt’ get up in arms when we hear people say our kids should know spanish . So we’d save all that wasted huffnpuff.
Yes, actually.
Goody for them. Not their job, though.
I have cousins in Canada. Ask them, get an earful.
“Goody for them. Not their job, though.”
They seem to teach spelling, math, science and other things. Why not other useful skills like bilingualness?
“I have cousins in Canada. Ask them, get an earful.”
I don’t think Canada’s two languages are common to them all.
Luis:
I’m not sure if you are refering to my post above when you refered to “anger.” I can state that there was no anger in that post; rather a mild annoyance and a great concern.
Luis, I lived the concept of not being able to understand people within my own family and in certain Portuguese quarters in New Bedford and Fall River, MA. My concern is with the word “emphasize.” I believe, based upon my first hand experience, that that is a terrible idea and will produce more long term harm than good. I also believe that it is a good thing for immigrant parents to raise their children as bilingual and to make the effort to become bilingual themsaelves.
That is ultimately one of the stepping stones to being an American. Pimping to La Raza by promoting Spanish is not the answer.
Oagen – What language is “common” to the US?
Luis – Methinks you see anger where it is actually our particular brand of off-beat irreverant humor.
Si, but you can bet your culo that it works for cursing!
English is OK if you can scream for 15 minutes straight without taking a breath like R. Lee Ermey, otherwise it’s kinda lame.
Ebonyics? Pfffftt.. SHiii.. They be workin so hard to keep it real and keep it fresh that I neva even knows when I been dis’d.. e.g. Baller (Bah’ lah) Insult or complement? See? WTF?
French… Please. They sound like fags.
No..If you want the language to hurl a stunning insult you gotta go with Spanish. Preferably Mexican Spanish.. (So you can use ‘Pinche’) Even if the recipient has no idea what you just said they know instinctively it’s nasty.
Guy 1: Fuck you, asshole!
Guy 2: Oh yeah? Well, chinga tu madre y chupame la polla, pinche pendejo!
QED
BJ – We are teaching our daughter Vietnamese, so she can communicate with her grandparents better. She also is learning Spanish in her kindergarten program, which we will continue through her schooling. I teach her Arabic here and there, and my aunt taught her to write her name in Farsi.
My in-laws arrived with 5 children, 2 adults, and 11 dollars US, and collectively, they may have known 10 words of English, if that. The parents still do not speak English well, but they understand it fine. They were insistent that the children (ages 3-10) learn English as soon as possible so they could succeed in their schooling, as they simply would not allow an opportunity like this to be wasted. Of the 5 kids, there are 2 internal medicine docs, 2 pharmacists, and a director of sales for a pharmaceutical company.
If everyone focused on education and success they way they did, that 10% of the country that is considered impoverished would have an average annual salary of $60,000+.
“Oagen – What language is “common†to the US?”
Some that i don’t understand.
Oagen – English is the common language, a common bond uniting us.
Rob, I agreed with you, in regards to the word “emphasize”. I think that what should be emphasized is the importance of learning English. I involved with the publication of a magazine here in the Bay Area that targets Hispanics. Here’s some excerpts of the Editor’s note I wrote for the June 2007 edition:
———————–
“One important thing for Hispanic community and business leaders is to continue to help new immigrants maximize all that energy and resourcefulness they bring with them by embracing values that make America a land of opportunity.”
“Even though there is no perfect political or social system, here in American people share certain ideals about what it takes to succeed. In fact, there are many examples of Latinos who started their lives here in very difficult circumstances and have risen and become very successful by working hard and believing in the America dream.”
“Here you can succeed by working hard, and getting an education. People are promoted and given opportunities and greater responsibilities based on merit, hard work, and initiative (not on who they know or the family they come from). It doesn’t matter what color you are, or if you are young, or older, or a man or a woman, if you can show you can make a positive contribution, you will get the chance to do so. When you sign a contract you can be assured that our legal system will uphold it based on the law, and that law is truly impartial. So if you have dreams, energy, and a desire to be successful in this country, you can do it. Is not easy, but at least the here people try to uphold the American ideals that say that you will succeed according to merit, performance, drive, and results, and that your property will be protected, and that we believe in the rule of law.”
“So again, let’s continue moving forward as Latinos, appreciating the best our cultures have to offer, but at the same time embracing the American ideals.”
———————–
—
Rob, I agreed with you, in regards to the word “emphasize .
—
BJTexs, this reply was meant for you. Anyway, I’m talking to Rob about this as well. Thanks for your note.
Not for lack of the government trying to make it so.
But if you’re going to limbo under that bar, what you’re really talking about then is not “two common languages,” but one language that is a bastardization of two pre-existing languages: “Spanglish.” Because that is what the result would be in a very short time.
And I’m pretty sure the bunch referenced in Jeff’s original post wouldn’t want that any more than you think any of us would.
Luis Mendoza – That was an excellent editorial. Too bad that many do not see the opportunities in the same light as you. Too many see race, sex, religion rather than the opportunities available to people willing to work for it.
“Not for lack of the government trying to make it so.”
I think that sort of is the real problem, and source of animosity. The idea of a language police. Rather than an aspiration to bilingualism,
“But if you’re going to limbo under that bar, what you’re really talking about then is not “two common languages,†but one language that is a bastardization of two pre-existing languages: “Spanglish.†Because that is what the result would be in a very short time.”
Sounds fine by me. Some tell me it already exists.
“Oagen – English is the common language, a common bond uniting us.”
Some more than others.
There is a Cuban family that lives down at the end of the cul-de-sac, and he always jokingly refers to people as maricon, and bugaron. Despite not knowing the precise translations, we always know what he means. He makes on hell of a mojito.
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#
Comment by JD on 8/14 @ 4:26 pm #
Luis Mendoza – That was an excellent editorial. Too bad that many do not see the opportunities in the same light as you. Too many see race, sex, religion rather than the opportunities available to people willing to work for it.
—————-
Thanks JD. I really believe in it. I usually talk to people and on the one hand acknowledge that different people deal with all kinds of issues, including discrimination, and other things, but at the end of the day is up to us (as individuals) to try to make the best of life, and focusing on blaming others for our fortunes is not going to get “you” anywhere. Yes, if there is an issue that needs to be addressed, address it, deal with it, resolve it, and then move to success. Now, a mild word for advocacy groups. At one level I understand that certain issues are so prevalent and entrenched that it engenders advocacy groups in order to push back and ascertain people’s rights, and sometimes hardball tactics have to be used. That in turns generate the anger of others. Let me put it this way… If a guy comes up to you and slaps you in the face, and your response is “please don’t slap me again”, and he does it again, and again, and your response is the same, then that’s what you’ll always get. But if one day the same guy comes and slaps you in the face, and all of the sudden you respond back with a 4×4, then people watching may say, “hey, that’s what too harsh a response.” In the controversial issues regarding La Raza, and Jessee Jackson, and Rev. Sharpton in that vein: they are the 4×4, and that’s one of the reasons they engender such anger. But that’s just my own humble observation.
The EU on the other hand decided there would be twenty-three official languages, $2 billion in translation costs, and a European Commissioner for Multilingualism. So whilst their naughty racist citizens use English as the lingua franca out of necessity, European members of parliament who can also speak English can sit in on parliamentary sessions conducted in twenty-three languages simultaneously.
And who wouldn’t want that?
If Jeff starts having theoretical conversations with Don Francisco, I’m going to worry.
Meanwhile, instead of Today and all that rot, I watch Cada DÃÂa on Telemundo. It’s no more incomprehensible, and the cast is better-looking.
Yes, Luis, admirable sentiments. But the lesson I come away with here is that Spanish is antithetical to scientific expression, and English is the lingua franca of real progress. I disagree. That’s pandering to the stereotype of the manana dude sitting under the palm tree.
I do think English should be the predominant language here, and I certainly oppose the flood of illegals into this country, but please, dismissisng a language is no way to address a larger social issue.
Then you did not read very carefully.
I re-read this thread and see nothing of the sort. Some pointed out the strengths of one language over another. Others pointed out some fun curse words. Nobody, but nobody, dismissed it.
I see the subtext as, “embrace the language, embrace the infestation.” I think it’s precisely backwards.
“Have these people no cultural pride? Spanish is the language of their conquerors. To speak Spanish is to honor the conquistadors and the original euro-imperialist oppressors from Spain.”
Yeah, “these people.” Way to win hearts and minds.
I would think a Republican businessman telling a bunch of Mexicans not to learn English would be looking to keep his labor costs low. From what I’ve read, bilingual education is responsible for hundreds of thousands of recent immigrant children to not learn much English. As far as I know, Luis, the main economic benefit of being bilingual in America today is you can boss a bunch of laborers. I suppose it would also be helpful for a border guard. Is either of those your life’s ambition, Luis?
But then what do I know? I’m a racist homophobic monolingual chickenhawk, according to the left.
I apologize Luis. That last was pretty angry. Maybe even too angry. I just get so damn tired of being called a racist homophobic monolingual chickenhawk by leftists. Can you ever forgive me?
I understand C# but I don’t speak it very well. Is that good enough?
What would it be like Luis if instead of just feeling you’re better than most everyone else you actually were better at something than most everyone else? What if that something you were better at was actually worth something to businesses large and small so that the government even imported 100,000 foreign workers every year so those businesses large and small didn’t have to pay you so much? What if that, Luis, would you ever be angry if that were the case? No, I guess you can’t relate, can you?
cynn – So, you just quit reading at that comment, distorted the meaning, and then used your interpretation to mischaracterize the entire thread.
Yo ,Ketc… Luis has put you on ignore. So, quit your pontificaing.
JD: I would really like to know where you think I misread. but more importantly where I went off the rails here. Please expound.
klrfz1: Actually, that was a snotty and reflexive thing for me to say. I’ll admit that I didn’t give you the courtesy of reading your responses, and I therefore violated my own law. Just so you know. I need to review a great deal of my internet response.
Ever hear of rhetorical, cynn? It’s like that.
Damn, I misspelled foreign. Should be furrin. Dang.
cynn – you came off the rails from comments 41-45. I believe that comment #3 is the one that set you off, but seemed like pretty obvious comedy to me. This has been one of the more light hearted threads where everyone seems to agree in a long time.
Some tendentiously human conspirators, Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Bayonet penultimate ™ vicious fascism Congratulations palatable fascist Christianity succinctly congratulated efficacious privileges nihilism characteristics amateurish ludicrous anti-Semitic serpentine turpentine succinct gorgeous subpoenaed
separately ally jeopardize withdrawal Ancient BLASPEHMY defence defense righteous testament receded politicizing coerce tenacious miscarriage predator misogynist misogyny competent grievance sentence restaurants rhetorical.
Oops, did I say that outloud?
JD. Yeah, I got set off, no doubt. No, I still sense a back-slap of Spanish, and I’m sick of the convenient bundling of a language in place of a culture. Just tired of it. Let’s just get it on in the open, and play the latino gut punch against the black whip kick, ’cause we’re all just waiting for the outcome.
Just please stop categorizing people according to their language. Yeah, that set me off.
I think the underlying point that not only the regular commenters, but Luis “The Pleasant Moonbat” Mendoza were making is that in order to partake of the great opportunity that is America, it kind of helps to learn the language.
sorry, I retract that. am in a very bad mood, but that’s no excuse, I know.
cynn – Since I had no idea what point you were trying to make, there is no need to retract it ;-) I just figured that in some cynn-type way, you were calling us racists.
JD: I admit that Luis’ genuflections and subservient feathered-hat-waving got on my last nerve. It finally boiled over into the Iraqi murder-is-my-name situation, and I lost it. I just could not reconcile the two. So, I’m going for the codpiece this Fall.
Comment by Swen Swenson on 8/14 @ 2:04 pm #
What’s truly sad about leaders in the Latino community promoting the Spanish language to the exclusion of English is the economic consequences: Don’t want to learn to speak fluent English? Fine. You’re doomed to changing sheets, cleaning the pool, and mowing lawns. Some leader, that.
This, of course, assumes that the ‘leaders’ have the good of their people at heart and not just the perpetuation of their ‘leadership’. This second outcome is the likely result of; and probably the real reason for such a stance.
TW: offence front there’s that damn fence again….
Hell, if we’re going to have an ‘official’ language let’s just skip right to Hebrew… the language of the Puppet Masters and The Great Worldwide Zionist Conspiracy… and be done with this pointless bickering..
tw: struggle desiring… yeah, I struggle with those too.
Is there some sort of secret statistic that says english-speaking hispanics send home less remittances than spanish-dominant hispanics? I bet Western Union knows.
Hey, Off Topic, but anyone know what time Chespirito comes on Telemundo these days.. ?
A guy in a bug suit.. Brilliant!
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Comment by cynn on 8/14 @ 7:10 pm #
Yes, Luis, admirable sentiments. But the lesson I come away with here is that Spanish is antithetical to scientific expression, and English is the lingua franca of real progress. I disagree. That’s pandering to the stereotype of the manana dude sitting under the palm tree.
I do think English should be the predominant language here, and I certainly oppose the flood of illegals into this country, but please, dismissisng a language is no way to address a larger social issue.
——————
Maybe my messages didn’t convey my entire view point on this. I’m not dismissing the language. I actually have a lot of respect, and admiration for it. When I read a book in Spanish, or listen to music, etc., being able to fully appreciate it is an experience that is hard describe. Also I don’t subscribe to the believe that any language is better than any other. I am just trying to be realistic by recognizing that in this country, English is the predominant language, and also that I do believe it is important for a society to share a common language.
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#
Comment by klrfz1 on 8/14 @ 8:26 pm #
I would think a Republican businessman telling a bunch of Mexicans not to learn English would be looking to keep his labor costs low. From what I’ve read, bilingual education is responsible for hundreds of thousands of recent immigrant children to not learn much English. As far as I know, Luis, the main economic benefit of being bilingual in America today is you can boss a bunch of laborers. I suppose it would also be helpful for a border guard. Is either of those your life’s ambition, Luis?
But then what do I know? I’m a racist homophobic monolingual chickenhawk, according to the left.
———————
I was just informed that this type of nonsense is just banter and is not to be taken seriously, so I’m relief now. I was beginning to thing it’s for real. Being able to communicate effectively in one language is great; in two languages, better; in three languages, even better. Any immigrant that comes to the U.S. would benefit greatly by embracing and learning English. If I moved to France, I would crack open those French language books, and audio tapes, CDs, school, whatever it took to learn the language.
See Cynn, Luis doesn’t ignore my “banter”. I’d like to know who “informed” him though.
Are you going to vote for Cindy Sheehan in the primary, Luis?
Luis:
I think you haved the right idea and I also thought your editorial was excellent.
cynn:
So sorry you are in a bad mood. It’s kind of ironic that this particular thread would set you off when the discussion has been pretty polite and respectful, with the usual twisty humor that has always characterized PW. Luis seems to be getting it and I’m hopeful that he will continue to engage and not be overwhelmed by bitterness and anger (like one recently “nuked” commentator.)
I’m not going to speak for anyone else. I would be the last person to suggest that Spanish be demonized and marginalized. I just don’t see the point to having it “emphasized.” Within the Mexican immigration community, Spanish is the de facto language spoken. How much more “emphasis” does Diaz-Balart think the Mexican community needs? I’ve always regretted my father’s “emphasis” on being so American that his children learning Portuguese was not a priority. All that we do and say and experience in language, culture and traditions still leads us to the final resting place of American Citizen. That is what I would like to see “emphasized;” a recognition that assimilation is not only a good and proper practice that maximises an immigrant’s economic opportunity (as has been the case for over 200 years) but also leaves plenty of room for cultural traditions in everyday personal life.
It’s not the language or the immigrant who’s being marginalized but the hard reality that “emphasis” on a non-native language creates more problems of opportunity than it solves. All of that goes double for “bi-lingual” emphasis, for which Canada is a poor model for the US.
The Latino Gut Punch Style?
The Black Whip Kick Style?
How bout the “White Nuts to your Fist Style”?
We are bleeding first, making us the victor.
Master Tang: Pay no attention to Wimp Lo, we purposely trained him wrong… as a joke.
Indeed, any emphasis is artificial and costly.
It is born of necessity for a nation to have a common language, and the globe in a globalized world.
… this is not to claim that English is superior.
… this is not to deny there are benefits from being multilingual, aside from communication, in terms of how to think about the world.
… this is not to support one language alone, for too much art and culture would be lost in translation.
Luis: Thanks for your useful input here; please keep it up. BJTexas, I don’t like veiled threats. If you want a banning, go for it. My point, Luis, is that I too believe English must be the predominant language in America. But imagine this: suppose hundreds of thousands of Iraqi nationals are repatriated here because of the disintegration of their country. Do we all have to have Iraqi interpreters on staff? Do we have to print government documents in Arabic or whatever? Are we required to accomodate these people by catering to them in their language?
Of course not. They need to assimilate. My only beef is that by targeting the language itself, and only that, and insisting on hegemony, doesn’t address the underlying problem that we are
culturally overwhelmed. “Emphasizing” any language is harmless in and of itself. As a city, we can have Greek appreciation days, where everyone is an honorary Greek and gets to oompah with the best of them. But eradicating a language does not get rid of the fundamental issue of what do we do with those who insist on speaking only that language, and then demanding social concessions that flow from such an artificial springboard.
In other words, I would suggest thwarting the invasion before it can make its language claims, because in our present social climate, that’s their leg up.
Luis,
Yep, and you’ll find that even if you’re not fluent, if you’re making an effort to communicate in the local language, the locals will generally be very accommodating in trying to help you along. Well, maybe not so much in France… But that was my experience in Germany. Walk into a place speaking nothing but English and you’ll get a lot of blank stares and “Ich verstehe nicht”. But bring even your worst Deutsche skills to bear and you’ll get the help you’re looking for, often in English with a German lesson on the side.
People respond to respect for and deference to the local culture.
?cynn?
Um, what? This is what I wrote:
Please re-read the above and tell where I either called for or even inferred that you should be banned. If you are making a connection between me acknowledging your own declaration that you were in a bad mood with Tbot’s descent into vile insults, please don’t! I was merely pointing out in my own goofy way the irony of you being upset by this thread, the content of which is pretty darn mild compared to others. Also, I treasure both Luis’ and your contribution to this forum. There was no veiled threat there nor would I ever make one as I have neither the inclination nor the authority to suggest or imply that anyone be banned.
Luis;
I really don’t have any significant disagreements with your position in immigration and language. I think that you have a sober, clear headed view of the issue and I very much appreciate you taking the time to flesh it out.
cynn:
Agreed! I would not have wanted some king of cultural fatwa against my relatives due to their speaking Portuguese. Assimilation is a broad based, natural process that we have been refining as a nation for over 200 years, not always with the most “liberal” of processes. Language is the foundation of that assimilation. From there the melding of cultures proceeds with an eye towards “I am an American, proud of my historical and cultural roots from Portugal. I celebrate membership in the great melting pot while continuing to celebrate my roots.”
I think you may be mixing up “language” with “culture.” Some of my happiest moments have been during the Portuguese Feast days in New Bedford, Ma. This country stands in a good place where immigrant cultures are celebrated. As you point out cultural events are great opportunities for people to experience the best of other countries (and you really haven’t lived until you’ve lined danced with the Greeks. AY-PAH!)
Let’s seek some middle ground here. My concern was not in eradicationg any language but in assuring that the idea of carving out permanant little language centers is a long term problem for the immigrant! Real economic opportunity comes from developing a fine contruct where the immigrant adapts to the host country, starting with the foundation of language skills and education, whilst retaining the essential cultural practices that identify the unique footprints of one’s heritage. This is a balancing act that can and has worked in this country; perhaps not perfectly but better than any other place in the world that you could care to raise up. Why would it be necessary to “emphasize” a call for immigrants to “emphasize” their native language? By the very nature of their condition that language is their heart and soul. My concern is that it provides a certain level of intellectual cover (God help me I’m channeling Caric!) for a cultural isolation which will, in the long run, self-restrict real economic opportunity. The balancing act requires more of the immigrant to come to the government than the government to come to the immigrant. That having been said, both have to be invested in promoting the assimilation construct.
It’s the difference between Mexico/Portugal/Italy in America and Mexican-Americans, Portuguese-Americans and Italian-Americans. Extended, it’s also why there is a real concern how the assimilation construct of Muslim Americans will proceed, they having some unique qualifiers depending upon country of origin and religious leanings.
But that is a discussion for another time.
tw: stituted blockade The Rio Grande Naval Flotilla????
“It’s not the language or the immigrant who’s being marginalized but the hard reality that “emphasis†on a non-native language creates more problems of opportunity than it solves.”
Shady divided loyalties of hte multilinguals!