The DoJ has decertified Pinnacle’s Dragon Skin body armor, “a severe blow to Pinnacle’s campaign to have Dragon Skin fielded by the US Army,” notes Hot Air’s Byran Preston, “and put into service in combat”:
Pinnacle had previously used NIJ certification as evidence that Dragon Skin is of sufficient quality to be used in combat. That line of argument is now taken away. For the record, NIJ certification standards and Army certification standards are not identical, so that line of argument was always a bit of a red herring.
[…]
By placing pro-Dragon Skin stories on two programs that attract pro-military audiences [“Mail Call” and “Future Weapons”] and military family audiences and on one of the country’s premiere news networks, Pinnacle evidently sought to build a groundswell of support for Dragon Skin among those with the most at stake in the Army’s choice of body armor: military members and their families. NBC’s story in particular had a major effect, with hearings convened in Congress that turned the controversy into a political issue. Will NBC now follow-up with honest reporting and real testing, noting that DoJ has decertified Dragon Skin body armor? I’m not holding my breath.
Preston also notes that the tests, which were performed by Pinnacle personnel, didn’t meet Army standards, and were therefore nothing more than carefully orchestrated sales pitches packaged as “news.”
Additionally, what can we conclude by the decertification by the Department of Justice? Does this mean, as Ace asks, that Dragon Skin “doesn’t even satisfy the lesser requirements of law-enforcement armor?”
Delicious! Next we’ll be holding Congressional hearings to decide if soldiers are being put in harm’s way because the army refuses to provide the troops with Super Sugar Crisp — by far the “best” breakfast cereal on the market, no matter what the lousy military industrial complex claims about the benefits of Frosted Mini-Wheats or Kashi.
Now, I’m all for seeing my anchor people and show hosts in HD, but if I had to give that up for the promise that the money saved on production would be spent on actual fact checkers, well, I think I could do without counting the downy hairs on Katie Couric’s wrists and forearms.
But then, I’m also willing to buy generic cereal, which marks me as something of a cad.
Is there any topic whatsoever that the media is willing to handle in an even-handed manner?
Cinnamon Toast Cruch or Cream of Wheat
More of the same. Pinnacle cannily recognizes the “opportunity for a listening” provided by the notion that the Pentagon’s nickel-and-diming the troops to death. The consumers of that meme are too busy congratulating themselves on their sincere affection for the poor ignorant killbots, er, troops, to realize they’re being played.
There is a special place in hell for the types of people who would try to game the system by rigging up phony tests for body armor. I am less sure about the press types, not knowing if they are merely useful idiots or if, as in the past with NBC, they are in on it.
Education Guy – And you point is illustrative of how far the media has fallen. Even 10 years ago, it would not have occurred to me to question whether or not the media was a willing participant to a hoax.
Just as a historical reminder, the whole faked “exploding truck” fiasco occurred more than ten years ago.
A few years ago, at the height of the Dragonskin brouhaha a CHP friend of mine and I found ourselves on BML land, heavily armed, in possession of some Dragonskin body armor and an Interceptor backplate. Also present (in the name of objectivity) was an armadillo that refused to dance.
Several thousand rounds, a couple of red bulls, and a bottle and a half of Vladimir Vodka (for the armadillo, neither myself or the CHP officer were drinkers) we concluded that sometimes the Dragonskin armor stopped things the Interceptor plate didn’t, and sometimes the Interceptor plate stopped things the Dragonskin armor didn’t.
Our tests were far from scientific (think two guys standing around blasting away at targets while a sunglass wearing ‘dillo watches on and does screwdriver shots), but we had to conclude that the Dragonskin armor wasn’t bad. It wasn’t better. It was…different and really no worse than the Interceptor plate.
Both systems and plates stopped most of what we shot at it, and suffered repeated shots without cracking or failing.
Now, this really is the point of my post but as I was interrupted by work and so I’ve completely lost my transitional paragraph I’ll skip right to my point.
Dragonskin isn’t a terrible product but its getting a bad wrap because (as Jeff notes) the “emotional terrorism” on the part of its manufacture, Pinnacle Armor. They went over the top in marketing their product as better than, rather than marketing it as an alternative which is a flaw of the company and not of the armor itself.
No, there is no subject the media is willing to handle in an even handed manner because they are all ( on both sides of the divide) advertising guys. Their only advantage is that they have presented themselves to the world as something more than advertising shills. It’s our own damned fault for believing them. For forty years we have been a victim of the biggest ponzi shceme ever invented. Even bigger thant freaking oil for food. Yet some of us (most of us?) pretend that we haven’t been. It is to laugh…but mostly to keep from crying.
#6 Running from…
Our tests were far from scientific (think two guys standing around blasting away at targets while a sunglass wearing ‘dillo watches on and does screwdriver shots), but we had to conclude that the Dragonskin armor wasn’t bad. It wasn’t better. It was…different and really no worse than the Interceptor plate.
A friend of mine, who is not in the military or law enforcement but has several friends who are, sent me a link to an entry at a firearms enthusiast website* that reached the same conclusion, with somewhat more rigorous tests.
*With more than 13,000 emails to search through, I don’t feel much inclined to go looking for it at the moment.
I can’t speak directly to the DOJ certification standards, nor the relative worth of Dragonskin, but the NIJ standards have been controversial for quite some time.
Alot of the NIJ standard revolves around the backing material (BM)used and it’s blackface signature (BFS). BM refers to the stuff that is placed beneath the armor to simulate the wearer and the BFS is the amount of deformation of this backing material that is caused by the impact of a non-penetrating projectile.
The specified backing material is simple modelling clay. Which was apparently chosen for no better reason and no more forethought than it happen to be available at the time the standards were first devised. Alot of subsequent time and effort has been spent trying to justify this selection and relate its behavior to the human body.
Likewise the standards for blackface signature were pretty much pulled out of thin air with no significant verification of its relationship to actual human trauma. While these standards have undergone some revision they still remain a semi-educated guess at best and often may not reflect real life events.
None of this means that the standards are worthless, just that they have the ability to exclude products that may still be effective at stopping bullets and preventing or reducing injury.
Of course, the notion that the press might actually delve into any of this esoterica prior to sermonizing from the mount is absurd.
“Super Sugar Crisp  by far the “best†breakfast cereal on the market, no matter what the lousy military industrial complex claims about the benefits of Frosted Mini-Wheats or Kashi.”
I try to be civil on this site out of respect for the greater good and all but I gotta draw the line.
George Washington ate pancakes, with real syrup and butter, three slices of bacon and drank tea every freaking morning! In return, it empowered him with the ability to piss napalm, crap mortars and to stand next to mountains and chop them down with the edge of his hand. If it was good enough for George then I say get our boys some pancakes, with the real syrup and the real butter, not that Kraft quasi-butter shit, and half a damn pig and a gallon of Earl Grey and lets win this thing!
Quit dorking around with Frosted Mini-wheats. Geez.
Like you need fiber to crap in that heat.
TW: willful hundreds; Leonadis only brought 300 soldier, we brought more.
I’ll stick with the Interceptor for now, thanks.
x2 Strawberry Pop Tart, Alokozay Tea (or Green Beans Coffee) and out the door.
Heh.
Washington, Washington, six foot eight, weighs a fucking ton…
If the media tells us they need the Dragonskin, then I am fairly certain that the Interceptor is the one to go with.
Has anyone inquired of those in the media (who actually venture out of the Green Zone) what body armor they wear?
The most impervious kind of amror…denial.
Or to paraphrase Foghorn Leghorn, ” I don’t need armor. I have my blinders to keep me safe.”
The troops will have an aversion to wearing armor as hot and as heavy as Dragonskin.
Personally i think the generic has more flavor, or maybe it’s just more sugar, at half the price it’s a bargin.
I am glad you all think this is a “media argument” and that NBC is waging “emotional terrorism”.
If you look at it a little closer, you will find that the military apparatus that tested the Dragon Skin system has lied and skewed the argument at every turn.
Obviously it is NBC being evil. We should all side with the folks that gave us the M-16 (Never needs cleaning! Until it stops firing ion the middle of a firefight in Vietnam), the Bradley infantry fighting vehicle (14 billion dollars to make, one billion to fix the piece of garbage) the M-4, (Jams due to powdery sand getting into the firing chamber, like the stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan) and the list goes on and on…..
Most of the people at these military development bases go on to work for the companies that are producing the products they are testing. They have to wait a whole year after leaving to get that cushy job.
The most bandied around statistic is the Dragon Skin is 20 pounds heavier. Sure it is, if you add the side protection.
You know, where Iraqi snipers shoot our guys, on the side.
So before you jump on the MSM is evil bandwagon, look at who you are defending; corrupt government agents against the media…..
I for one welcome our new madly reciprocating troll.
TW anticipate vast quantities of nonsense from this one.
They killed John, man. And Bobby, and Martin, and John Lenon. Can’t you people see?
TW: Sambuka Tests: Okay. But if I’m grading them, he failed.
I haven’t been killed once since I started using Dragon Skin. Thumbs up!
For those who didn’t get the George Washington references.
Probably NSFW, btw.
Dennis – I have bet my life on Interceptor, and will agian do so. I would rather not have the Dragon Scales of Smaug or whatever NBC was pitching.
You see the “G” as being corrupt and accepting the inferiro – would you at least admit that NBC and the Dragon Skin folks could have an agenda/angle, etc? I have not seen much in my 22.5 years in the Army to convince me that NBC has my interest more at heart than the folks at DARPA, TACOM or Aberdeen Proving Gounds…
And that mistake, made 40 years ago was corrected and it’s been a fanstastic weapon.
And it’s one of the best pieces of equipment, overall, in the arsenal.
Just plain false.
Really? You have more falsities and fallacies you can spew?
Reminds me of a song …There were incidents and accidents…hints and allegations….
From what I’ve heard from folks who’ve tried Dragonscale is that it doesn’t hold up under field conditions. In particular, it delaminates in extreme hot weather. Not an issue if we were invading, say, Greenland, but I’m told it ges a bit warm in Iraq.
look at who you are defending; corrupt government agents against the media…..
Yes, by all means we should absolutely trust the profit driven group which doesn’t have to answer to the voters.
And which wouldn’t be putting their lives on the line with it.
Now that would be some quality TV.