Iran? I’m against it. You?*
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
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Not in principle. It’s just, you know . . . (a little slow).
I never had any like or dislile for a Flock of Seagulls.
Iran? Isn’t that between Iraq and the hard place (Afstan)?
Iranians killing Americans? Please. It’s Bush who is killing Americans. Just ask Rosie.
Iran a little when I was younger. Then my knees gave out.
I raaaaan, I ran so far away … What a horrific song. Blech.
Yea but answer me this.
Was there any sign of nuclear components in any of that ordinance?
Huh? HUH?
Now you ‘thugs know what this means, right? It means … um … ah … well … BUSH LIED, IRAQIS DIED!!!
Wow, that works for everything…
The Iranians were our friends until Bush squandered their goodwill.
but it was always funny, JD, when the DJ inevitably said “I ran from a flock of seagulls…”
Who are you wanna nuke, Jeff?
Those crazy Iranians, always getting caught supplying something to someone….
I’m pro. Or at least I was.
You, me, Jon Voigt. Dude learned SOMETHING during the filming of “Deliverance,” obviously. And it wasn’t that Ned Beatty made the worst career move of all time, either!
Sorry – I know it’s not an open thread – I just couldn’t resist the potential for Angelina Jolie comments and “Deliverance” jokes. It’s that kind of day.
Richard Miniter and I do not agree on politics, but he has a habit of writing books and appearing on local talk shows to push them. He also has a habit of responding courteously to serious e-mails written by people who don’t agree with him. Further, he will carry on said electronic conversation for almost a week (he’s a lot nicer than Jeff after you’ve been banned, but I’m doubting Mr. Miniter has ever had the distinct pleasure of being stalked by crazy people before). After “speaking” with me on two different occasions, he even e-vited me to his Washington Christmas party (can you imagine?? I hope he has a new assistant by now).
I do respect his decency and his knowledge, so my question after watching the video is “so what?” The money given to Iraqi insurgent groups apparently comes from Saudi Arabia for the Sunnis and Iran for the Shia. Both sides use those funds to purchase weapons which kill Americans and each other. In the early going of this war, the insurgents were able to use money and arms they stashed before the war or looted after it and they had willing recruits from Sunni Arab countries.
From what I can glean, they are not hurting for cash and surely there are enough cynics here at PW to know that when you wave a dollar through an arms market, someone is going to bite. These weapons will come from Iran or Pakistan (through Saudi Arabia or Iran), or China (through the Russians and Iranians). Embargoes on these things never seem to work, ask the Bosnians.
So, what is the American military supposed to do to stop what is surely a torrent of arms coming into anarchy, err, Iraq? Maybe this question should be delivered to Mr. Miniter, as he is quite capable of giving his reasons and policy objectives, but I thought I would pose it here too. Jeff, you’re a well-read guy, how do we stop this?
See, I can’t see a way. That border is huge and rugged in the North and down South (in the Shia regions) it’s almost non-existent, i.e. people walk back and forth over it at will). This ain’t the Ho Chi Minh trail after all, this is 1300+ miles.
By the way, I’m not fond of the Iranians either. I abhor theocrats (see personal disgust with America’s evangelical right-wing). I just don’t see what all this rhetoric toward them accomplishes. Since they are causing trouble in Iraq, seems to me there are ways to persuade them without resorting to “you’re a big jerk.” Feels good; accomplishes nothing.
Iranian money has been tracked to both Shia and Sunni groups.
Nice try, though.
Ahh, Christmas – favorite holiday of America’s evangelical right wing. What will you wear timby? How about a campy Satan outfit with the Baby Jesus at the end of your pitchfork.
………ooh, then you can light your farts and tell joo jokes. Sounds like an evening.
<blockquote>By the way, I’m not fond of the Iranians either. I abhor theocrats (see personal disgust with America’s evangelical right-wing). I just don’t see what all this rhetoric toward them accomplishes. Since they are causing trouble in Iraq, seems to me there are ways to persuade them without resorting to “you’re a big jerk.†Feels good; accomplishes nothing.<blockquote>
The rhetoric toward American evangelical right wing?
I agree, it accomplishes nothing, but the ritual does appear to be perceived as cathartic.
Plus you say you have no ideas at all on how to persuade the Iranians to do anything, but you are sure there must be some way, somewhere. Thanks.
Isn’t “hey, you guy’s are being jerks” one of the first steps in diplomatic confrontation?
The Democrats have us locked into an all carrot no stick approach with Iran. Iran will continue with impunity (literally).
timmyb:
DUCK!
The Iranians have the most reasons to destabalize Iraq. The Saudis are operating as idealogues on the one hand and simpering little sheeple on the other, hoping against hope to buy off the radicals and avoid a massive attack on their big, fat royal seats of power. Iranians are in it for pure ideology just as they are in Lebanon. I know (and have been saying for years) that the Saudis are not our friends and never will be but their ambitions do not so directly threaten our interests as the Shia Theocracy in Iran.
As far as what to do? I don’t know for sure. That reckoning will come sometime soon and diplomacy is not the answer. We’ve seen, time and again, that the Iranian Theocracy’s idea of diplomacy is rooted on the Quranic notion that you negotiate until strong enough to attack. Perhaps a more aggresive and public stance with Iranians captured in Iraq and a more hard hitting public relations campaign with the evidence. I’m holding my council on this for a bit.
In the meantime, you:
I suppose I would be considered in many circles as a Right-wing Evangelical. If so, you just compared me to an Iranian Ayatollah or a follower like Achmadinnerjacket. Perhaps you would take a minute and consider how insulting and patently unfair that is to me or just about any Evangelical not named Eric Rudolph.
I’m pretty sure you’re not against me. You haven’t lampooned me so far.
<snif>
Why, the UN, of course. They’ll take care of it. They’ll pass some resolutions, and if Iran ignores them, they’ll take decisive action. </sarcasm>
I am SO against Iran. Yo, Prez! Finish up with Iraq & start the pincer movement on Persia already! Yes, yes, I know: not logistically feasible at the moment. Sigh.
“Whatever it is, I’m against it!”
— Groucho (Horse Feathers, I think)
Hmm, that’s funny. Becuase we LOVE you.
See you in line for the 2008 Elections!!!
I wish to retract my suggestion to ask Rosie about Bush killing Americans, not Iranians.
Instead, go ask timmyb.
I just don’t see what all this rhetoric toward them accomplishes. Since they are causing trouble in Iraq, seems to me there are ways to persuade them without resorting to “you’re a big jerk.â€Â
For example … ?
Does this pablum taste good to you, timmy?
I knew a Persian Jew once. That’s what you call Jews from Iran. She lived in Sherman Oaks, which is where Jennifer Aniston was born. She drove a very nice car, and she was kind to me.
Wankers!
Oh, and don’t miss Taheri’s piece. He says the Ahmadinejad government’s economic plan is a martyrdom operation.
By the way, I’m not fond of the Iranians either. I abhor theocrats (see personal disgust with America’s evangelical right-wing). I just don’t see what all this rhetoric toward them accomplishes. Since they are causing trouble in Iraq, seems to me there are ways to persuade them without resorting to “you’re a big jerk.†Feels good; accomplishes nothing.
Because unlike America’s evangelical right-wing, they’re unalterably opposed to liberal democracy, and will happily kill everyone in Iraq and Iran rather than accept it. They’re not going to be “persuaded” out of that, any more than Kim Jong Il is going to be “persuaded” to hold elections, or Carter was going to “persuade” the Soviet to leave Afghanistan or disarm their military.
Rhetoric does accomplish things. Reagan called the Soviets “evil empire,” which we know from their memos caused the Kremlin great consternation. Soon they realized no one was buying what they were selling anymore, and their empire of repression, poverty and death fell apart overnight, much to everyone’s surprise.
As will Tehran’s, inshallah.
Fortunately, you are not on the staff of one of the MNDs, becuase that sounds suspiciously like “it’s hard, I don’t have an instant answer, therefore it cannot be done”.
The best way to do it is as we have started to – roll up the receivers/distributors of said weapons, and work backward from there. It’s not like they are just being kicked off the back of a truck and everyone runs up to grab some and aim them at the nearest Coalition soldier or vehicle. The Iraqis are the ones who are giving us the best information on who is receiving them and then using or distributing them.
See the entire transcript of Teleconference between Gen. David Petraeus, MNF-I commander, and Associated Press reporters, May 8, 2007
So Mahmoud, how goes Bandar Abbas? God forbid anything should happen to it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
Sorry BJ, couldn’t help it. I do so love the fact timmy is such a proponent of diplomacy while he spastically insults half the board.
I bought my college car from a Persian Jew. He said he got out while the getting was good. And that car lasted me 10 years of primary driving averaging 27 mpg with no major money-pit failures and 4 years of backup driving (when my newer car was getting oil changes, when my parents were in town and would drive my new car) until finally a sensor went that would cost several times the blue book value to replace.
I donated it to Kars for Kids, which as it turns out is owned by a Torah education for tots program.
I’ve probably mentioned this before but:
My niece converted and married an Iranian Jew from an extended and extensive family. They are some of my favorite people and speak often about being appalled at the current conditions in their homeland.
BTW: Completely integrated into American society, hard working, hard playing and generally successful. Their woman are powerful and honored, true partners in the families’ endeavors.
BMoe;
Yea, I know. He is trying to engage but for some reason just can’t help making some comparison that several of us will find insulting. I suspect he will be back angrily defending himself and denying the obvious. Or … he may apologise.
These uncertainties give life it’s spioe…
I love the set up: this is all hush hush! this is an explosive interview conducted under harsh scrutiny because they don’t want to let this shocking news come out! And then the interview confirms what everyone already knows: Iranian arms are found in Iraq.
So, the military guy confirms that the Iranian weapons are Iranian, can’t say how they got there, suggests that the weapons are just like those on the open market, and then what? Nothing. Why? Because the information is just too shocking, and Pajamasmedia is a subsidiary of MSMCo and there are stock options to think about? What?
Watching the piece, I had an image of Rosie touring the evidence room of a Washington DC police station. A handy police spokesman would point out the serial numbers and mention how many of the guns came from Georgia and Virginia. Rosie would then ask about the gun markets in those states, the police spokesman would dutifully answer, and the results would be what?
Gun control in Iraq will work there about as well as it works here.
*I abhor theocrats (see personal disgust with America’s evangelical right-wing).*
I do not think theocrat means what you think it means.
Of course it doesn’t. A Theocracy is dedicated to to a government, first and foremost, run on religious principles with religious “professionals” intimately involved in its operation.
There are plently of “right wing evangelicals” who put great stock on certain social issues but there are very, very few who have a vision of a Christian USA run by “professional” Christians. Asking a government to recognise and honor its traditional, religious roots is a long way from a a Theocracy.
Nuance, the other white meat…
Holy shit… most American evangelicals know by simple observation that at times they can’t even run their own churches, much less the US government…. their religion is based on an acknowledgement of their own shortcomings after all
Timmah…debunked again.
Jon, I kind of agree with your sentiment on gun control, however as Major John mentioned, it has to be a priority. A big priority, because they can and are reducing the flow. The spigot just will never completely stop.