April 16, 1962: Walter Cronkite takes over as CBS Evening News anchor, replacing Doug Edwards. Now, forty-five years later, American journalism still hasn’t managed to get the twin smells of pomposity and self-loathing out of the love seat.
A generation of Cambodians could not be reached for comment.
And that’s the way it is…
Or a generation of South Vietnamese for that matter…
That’s why it’s so cool that we have unbiased media watch dogs like Neal Gabler who took the MSM to task for forming an opinion on the Duke case early, then he took them to task for trying to canonize the Duke 3 when they were proclaimed innocent, because in Neal’s words, “they’re no saints”.
If I had a vagina and it was oozing and pungent, Neal Gabler would be the first thing I’d insert with a vigorous squeeze.
Surely you’re not talking about THE MOST TRUSTED MAN IN AMERICA(TM)?????????
Well at least we know that with today’s News Anchors, we won’t have to worry about them propagandizing us into abandoning any more brown people.
Wait….ummm, nevermind.
When the New York Times can fuck up Vonnegut’s obituary, you know what the state of journalism is.
A disgrace, if you can’t figure out what my italics mean.
Attempting to understand…so Cronkite was responsible for the US defeat in South Vietnam AND the Khmer Rouge? Wow!!!!!!!!! He was just a busy man. Any word on whether he is bin Laden? Is he the cause of the trouble we have in Iraq now?
I always knew there was one man to blame. I thought it Jimmy Carter, but not I know it was Uncle Walt. How dare he count the days of the Iranian hostage Crisis. He masterminded it! Damn hypocrite.
Hey—I was gone this past weekend—did we just substitute one thread-hijacker for another . . . ?
Life is an awful puzzle for you, isn’t it, timmy.
Keep trying, grasshopper. You’re not even close.
Sorry, Timmy. I take your point. He had no discernible effect on history at all. Journalists never do.
Makes it a rather (cough) thankless profession, now that I think about it.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Almost as puzzling as to why there is no right wing blog in Britain on which your wit could entertain Tories. I mean, your genius is singular to the United Kingdom, so you should keep it there.
Oh, Gary, I commented on Jeff’s post, so you may need to correct your comment. I got it, like I said, “Cronkite is the font from which all evil flows.”
It just surprised me, but then I remembered, I have never seen Walt and Osama together before. Cronkite is Dr. Evil!
Jeff’s word laser cuts right through the chaff. THANKS, JEFF. Now I know whom to blame for all the bad stuff.
timmah:
Every hastily disdainful mouse that maniacally painted the fantastic, hyperspatial youth assumably creates the metaphysical, possessive artichoke. The bee creates an incredibly resiniferous calculator. Besides, in an apparently unintended act, a cruel sniper rifle galloped on a T-bone steak, which was an event that turned out to be fatal to a super rich hokie.
You know what I mean?
Shit – this time around we didn’t even have time to put up the tote board, what with those young brits falling over themselves to get the best goody bag. You can’t just go out and buy vinyl wallets and Chinese Calendars in England. I heard that one of the Marines scored an excellent-to-mint condition “Lulu Scat: Don’t Step on Me” 8-track.
No, Jeff, you’re wrong. Cronkite personally disarmed the entire Marine Expeditionary Force that was supposed to land in Phnom Penh. In addition, he slapped each American Marine and said “Where do you think you’re going?”
All Americans are just sheep herded by Cronkite and Katie Couric. Explains why they supported the Iraq invasion and now don’t…oops
I got it now, Cronkite was not only a liberal, but, apparently, the driving force behind the Khmer Rouge from his secret bunker in Bangkok.
It’s good to know.
Pablo, clever as always. I assume the weather you’re having makes you more of a curmudgeon than normal? When that happens I just just keep myself warm remembering the look on Tom Brady’s face when he threw that game clinching interception in the AFC Championship. Just recalling it now makes me warm and cozy. You should try it.
Isn’t it a bit early in the day to be drinking, timmyb?
Let me help you out, Timmy, Water Cronkite’s temper tantrum at the time of the Tet Offensive. forced out Johnson, and caused approval of the
Vietnam War, to be invalidated. When Nixon followed up with the invasion of Cambodia, which
should have been done 5 years before; (much like
the surge now) causes another full bore conniption, which led to Kent State, made it possible for Prince Sihanouk, the silly sax
playing prince as the late Spaulding Gray
referred to him; whose indulgence of the Viet
Cong caused much of the subsequent problem.
forced the pull out of US forces out of all
of South East Asia, which allowed the Khmer
Rouge, led by Pol Pot: who arued in his Sorbonne dissertation that the Chinese were to soft in their approach to Maoist theory! to kill two to2-three million Cambodians, thanks a lot Walter.
to their sponsors in the China, that Kissinger
was so proud to reach out.
Monday, April 16, 2007, 9:22 AM: timmyb takes over as protein wisdom anchor, replacing Jeff Goldstein . AFC Championships, evil, hostages, . . . anyother off the thread comments?
Behead those who insult the leftists’ Gods of Propaganda!
Ever notice how some people go totally apeshit when you diss a liberal icon?
Like clockwork, Robert.
Speaking of which, when asked for comment, Noam Chomsky smiled, then slammed the door to his home, affectionately referred to as “the dacha”.
From Dr. Sanity, a great description of the reactionary, delusional left:
What a great description of timmy, actus, alphie, any number of others.
TIMMAH!
SB: straight – what’re the odds?
Despite what all of you old dudes think, I was like 11 when Cronkite retired. He is no icon to me. The suggestion that his tirade during Tet led to Johnson’s withdraw is a fantastically silly rendering of history. Cronkite wasn’t on the cutting edge, dunderhead, he was on the back of public opinion. He wasn’t on the college campuses, burning draft cards. Americans were.
I’ll stick with the original satirical point: the sore losers of history, rather than accept blame (see Robert McNamara) for being wrong, find a scapegoat and don’t seem to notice the iconic stupidity of blaming a news anchor for losing the Vietnam War, the Khmer Rouge’s unfortunate seizing of power, and blame his “successors” for losing the current unwinnable war.
Admit you were wrong and you might find peace. Bitterness…..the raison d’etre of Protein Wisdom.
Congratulations! You have managed to out-stupid alphie. I didn’t think it was possible.
Hey, N. O’Brain, not sure about Rove being a genius, but evil seems preety accurate. Read a paper today and find out how Karl, in violation of Federal law, deleted his official business emails from the RNC server, AFTER the RNC noted that its policy of deleting email after 30 days violated the law (if the emails were being used for official business). Undeterred, Karl began deleting his emails PERSONALLY. So much so, that he was the only person banned from doing so.
Not only violating Federal law, but willfully and brazenly.
Not sure where anyone projected ontop those facts and I can guarantee Jeff will not post on this subject (not really a way to spin this, so ignoring it will be more popular). All will get is
“Alberto Gonzalez resigned today and my armadillo notes it was because he was Hispanic and he can fire whomever he wants and Bill Clinton did it worse.”
That will certainly be entertaining.
Thank God we have you to tell us what is winnable and unwinnable timmy. Without you, and ‘ol Walter, we might be forced to listen to those with actual first hand military experience in Iraq and/or Afghanistan.
Now when we build the statue of your likeness giving the troops and Iraqis their well deserved ass fucking, would you like it with the polite reach around or without?
Who is the “you” who was wrong here, Timmy?
And where did I blame Cronkite for losing the war? He was just one of a number of contributing factors.
Yet you seem to be foaming all over your bib trying to turn the observation into a cartoon in which I blame Uncle Walt and his successors for all the evils of the world.
I do no such thing. I simply note that they aren’t really helping much.
Agree or don’t. But pay attention.
How did this timby dude get such a boner for Goldstein?
Oh look!
Everyone is out of step except for my timmy!
I think he goes off his meds occasionally. maybe he has the day off and he’s bored? anyway, I found this interesting:
so perhaps he was a larger contributing factor than some give him credit for? maybe you had to be there.
Posted by timmyb | permalink
on 04/16 at 11:21 AM
Can anyone tell me what that was about?
Cronkite was watched by roughly 1/3 of all Americans who owned a television, every night . Cronkite was public opinion.
Imagine, just for a second, if all of the millions of people who watch American Idol were instead watching the evening news. Now imagine if the anchor person decided to editorialize on the air that 9/11 was a hit job. Do you think that that might have an effect on public opinion vis-a-vis the responsibility for the 9/11 attacks? No matter how ill-informed the diatribe?
Cronkite was the voice of freakin’ GOD to millions of Americans. His opinions were unassailible and there was practically no alternative source of televised news. If you think that he had no effect on politicans perception of public opinion and their subsequent Vietnam policy, you’re mistaken. If you think that our pulling out of Viet Nam had no effect on the actions of the “unfortunate” Khmer Rouge, you are even more mistaken.
It’s not bitterness, it’s history.
Anyway, back to Uncle Walter.
Basically, he editorialized during a news broadcast (sooprise sooprise sooprise) that the Tet offensive was a huge loss for American and South Vietnamese arms.
He lied.
Does anyone remember that when the VC and NVA took over Hue, that they murdered over 6,000 inhabitants of that town?
Yeah, it’s so awful here that the Red Sox have only been able to manage a 6 run lead in the 5th. Dumbass.
Is that a FROGMARCH I hear?
It’s when your guy stuffs documents into his wiener pouch to prevent anyone from finding out that his administration was desperately trying to stay two steps ahead of the president’s balls, you go after the current administration for poor email ettiquette. It’s called a Berger Flip.
The number of victims cited in the wikipedia article is somewhat lower than the 6,000 i claimed above.
But not by much.
I was there. And unlike timmy, I was old enough to know a little of what was going on. I remember watching the news with my Parents, and Grandparents and Aunts and Uncles on weekends. The draft-card burning and antics on campus were the objects of derision and mirth among my elders, but the faces grew very somber when Mr. Cronkite began to turn. As usual, timmy has it exactly backwards.
To make it easier for you to interpret our dear little timmah’s arguments, I’ve made a multiple choice, easy to read, pre-determined response list.
I wasn’t alive, didn’t experience Cronkite or Vietnam, but I doubt your take because:
a) it doesn’t match what I have heard or been taught by my teachers who either protested the Vietnam War or wished they had. We all know that Nixon was evil, caused & lost Vietnam.
b) you’re evil & stupid & so is Bu$hco! Karl Rove is evil, just GOOGLE IT!!!
c) BUSH LIED & PEOPLE DIED… FOR OIL!!!
d) all real conservatives are named alphie
Cronkite’s over-blown & factually inaccurate reporting of the Tet Offensive had no ill bearing on public opinion regarding the Vietnam War, because:
a) Karl Rove deleted e-mails & is EVIL! Read a paper after you GOOGLE IT!!!
b) NEOCONS are mindless robots that are stupid & dumb, dumb, dumb!
c) there was NO Exit Plan, stupid wingers, that’s why the Democratically controlled Congress revoke all funding for Vietnam.
d) alphie said so
How the media reports has no effect on public perception & if they are wrong, who cares, because usually it just Dumb NEOCONS hurt & as far as I’m concerned they’re EVIL, Stupid & deserve whatever they get. Just ask:
a) Karl Rove or Dick Cheney who intentionally outed & sought the destruction of Mrs. Plame & her
lyingtruthful husband, though no one was convicted of it.b) the Duke LaCrosse Team
c) Richard Jewell
d) any of the numerous Clinton accusers
Can one really be that old and still be that stupid and ignorant?
What—Cronkite retired yesterday?
Geezer,
you seemed to have pulled it off effortlessly
Man, why didn’t Karl just use Hillary’s shredder or pick Sandy B.’s brain on some top-tier hiding spots? Then it would simply be an accident or just plain sloppy.
Now…back to Uncle Walt.
Yo dudes! I was like so not born when Booth offed Honest Abe, but I heard it was like totally intense. I guess FOX News was like “Booth is a bad guy” and shit like that. Not cool.
Lost my cookies
And Cronkite did all that from a bunker in Bangkok as he master-minded the Khmer Rouge? I remember seeing a you tub out-take of Uncle Walt barking orders in Cambodian right before a 1971 broadcast.
If you all remember Jeff’s post, Cronkite is somehow responsible for a generation lost in Cambodia. And, while is entertaining to listen to Boomers <sigh> again argue about Vietnam, the issue is how that Communist mastermind Walter Cronkite held Gerald Ford at gunpoint while Ford ordered division after division of US relief forces back to the barracks.
HE WAS ALL POWERFUL.
Protein Wisdom, where it’s always 2003, Republicans are always right, and a fifth column is the only thing holding America back from winning its foreign adventures.
It’s like counter-history.
Care to diagram that particular sentence, Timmah!? Assuming you can find it, which should be an interesting effort of its own.
We don’t really have to remember it timmy, it is still right up there at the top of the thread. And I would like you to point out that particular sentence also.
You are being deliberately obtuse and ignoring the argument. You’re a troll, a bad one. If you don’t get the joke, say so.
Every (good) history of the Vietnam war will mention Cronkite’s editorial comment as a turning point for public opinion. Why you can’t understand that fact, or choose to ignore it, says reams about you, and nothing about Jeff’s wit.
Discount You Tub at your own peril, LMC.
Lost, B Moe, and Pablo: it’s not my fault you cannot read.
“A generation of Cambodians couldn’t be reached for comment.” Gee, that seems to imply that Cronkite hobbled a US response to the Khmer Rouge or enabled the Khmer Rouge. It is such a godawful, ridiculous thing to imply, that only here in bizarro world could it go without passing by the regulars. Care to comment on how Walt did that?
I mean, I’ve already learned from Jeff that “CRONKITE WAS ALL-POWERFUL”
Lost, I forgot briefly, and then was reminded as you people bored me with it, that discussions of Vietnam don’t go anywhere on this blog. For 40 years you have convinced yourself, but for the weakness of a) the American media (damn Jane Fonda), b) the American Left (damn Walter Cronkite), or c) those pussies in Washington (damn Lyndon Johnson), or some combination of the above.
So, Lost, I have learned not to argue with PW folk, because your Vietnam experience is an integral part of your political views for your entire political life. So, you can prattle on about ‘Nam and how Uncle Walt stabbed you in the back, but, since you are unreachable, I will abstain.
timmy, no snark intended, but you are an idiot.
B Moe, no snark intended, but you’re an ass
See how that works. Not exactly clever on your part, but I’m not surprised, as you’re not clever.
Wow, I did it twice
Walter Cronkite lied about Tet. He was a damned liar. No wonder he’s one of timmyb’s hero’s.
I already did. When you read my previous comment – again – you should understand.
I say should because you really should, but you won’t, because you simply don’t want to. I can’t make you.
You’re typical of the Jeff gets here. You start an argument and refuse to acknowledge any counter argument. You will persist in repeating the same thing, over and over until the regulars start to hurl invective at you.
I think you like it.
You have decided to pretend you don’t understand what Jeff implied with his comment by reducing it to the absurd. It’s making you look foolish.
And I wasn’t in Vietnam.
If you don’t like it here, timmy, you can always skidaddle.
I wasn’t trying to be clever, I was making a point. Here, let me show you how this works, you said this:
Presuming to lecture those of us who were old enough to remember about what happened. I, and others, explained to you that your assertions were quite ridiculous. The protesting, draft-card burning “hippies” were a fringe novelty to the vast majority of Americans. The fact that they like to tell you now how important they were then doesn’t make it so. They were largely laughed at. Cronkite was the most respected newsman in America however, he was taken very seriously by adult Americans. When he declared TET a loss and the war unwinnable it was a devastating blow to the American pysche. He didn’t cause anything single-handedly, and Jeff isn’t implying that to anyone with a fucking brain, but he did have a profound effect on history. That is just the way it is.
If you don’t understand something this obvious, you are an idiot.
..does not equal…
That’s nothing more than your read, you projecting moron. There’s about 15 leaps of logic you need to make to draw that conclusion, but if that’s where it takes you, you need to examine that. Personally, I’d like to print out the 15 billion words written on intentionalism here, fold them until they’re nice and pointy, and then cram them up your ignorant ass.
Is that clear enough for your comprehension without addition?
TimmyB using logic?
Mr. Spock just called, and he was furious at the implication.
timmy likes it here so much, he changed his name to enhance his credibility.
Tragically, a plank by any other name would be as thick.
Actually, Furriskey, you thick-headed 80 year old dolt, I was ASKED by Kelly to change my name. She said people like you, who fellate John Bolton, take offense to the name and it’s sounded childish. I said, of course, that Pablo, B Moe and the like aren’t interested in arguments, but preaching to the <shrinking> choir and a name change wouldn’t interest them. Nonetheless, at her suggestion I changed my name.
Having conversed with you before, it’s not a shock to me that you imagine things, but you can always verify it on the search engine if you want.
Oh, and Keff, how would I notice your wit and wisdom if I didn’t read. You already taught me how powerful Cronkite is/was (you and B Moe and his assertion that his house is America). I await the PW feature (maybe Vic Dave Hanson could do it for Pajamas itself…oooooh the big time) on how Walter and Osama are in cahoots.
The Iraq war is winding down, righties, and you do need to see if your “the Press lost Vietnam” story will work in Iraq. Test marketing (Jamil Hussein, John McCain’s “we can walk anywhere”, Mike Pence’s “it’s like a summer market in Indiana”) isn’t going well.
Here’s a try: it didn’t work, because like Vietnam, it was the product of arrogance and bad thinking. Seems obvious to me, but then I can make the leap from “a generation of Cambodians couldn’t be reached….to Walter Cronkite SOMEHOW caused that.”
Maybe it was the whiskey talking?
Lost,
The US sent more troops to Vietnam after Tet, reacing the apogee of 500,000 by the end of 1968.
The Vietcong, as an organized fighting force, were no longer a factor and Ho and General Giap used NVA forces and local guerrillas.
By the end of the year Nixon was elected and determined TO LEAVE Vietnam. That wasn’t Walter Cronkite, that was Tricky Dick. Negotiations began in 1969 with the Americans ordered to agree to terms that did not appear to be defeat.
Cronkite, despite being a liberal, Communist(?), evil, fifth column member, was essentially correct. Under the rules the US government placed on its armed forces, victory was impossible. Either you invaded North Vietnam and toppled Ho Chi Minh, risking war with China and Russia or you left. The Vietnamese had been fighting for 30 years for their independence, the people of the South were tired of foreign occupation and refused to support the South Vietnamese state (check out the general effectiveness of ARVN troops).
In case you don’t remember Eisenhower and the Diem government refused to conduct the mandated 1956 referendum on unification. Eisenhower’s notes from cabinet meetings indicate Ho and friends would garner 80%. http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch26.htm
It was just a tragic silliness from the start, Lost, and it’s the reason you can’t argue with people about it. It’s completely emotional. Ask John Kerry.
That’s why I was trying to restrict my comments to the foolishness of “a generation of Cambodians”. Thanks for your time
Let me ask you a question, emotions aside.
Do you think that the media had no effect whatsoever on the public perception of the Vietnam war?
You are giving the impression that you don’t. If that’s the case, and I don’t know if it is, that would explain a lot.
Gen Westmoreland, Lyndon Johnson <i>and<> Nixon would disagree with you if that is the case.
You wouldn’t be alone in your stance, there are some people out there who propose that the pessimistic tone of media reports were reflective of the opinions of the policymakers, not of the media itself.
These people also argue that the government’s attitude toward war was too optimistic and that the media reports were more realistic, so they tend to contradict themselves.
And I didn’t know Cronkite was a Communist, thanks for the info, I had heard he was a Episcopalian.
Episcopal/Communist?
Difference?
None.
Confirmed acolyte no more.
Timmy – You sound like a History Major with bad proffs. Read another book and block Wikipedia. You’ll not feel better, but you’ll sound better.
Who’s Kelly? Your babysitter?
“fellate John Bolton….childish…”
Oh dear, timmy. Have we been staying up too late again? Beddy-bies before six for you, youngster.
Well that was very obedient of you, timmy. Is she awfully strict?
Verify what? I said you had changed your name so that you could keep delighting us with your “superior” insights.
You have admitted it.
What a cross-patch you are, timmy.
Hahahaha! Jeff mistyped 1692!