Carter: “I don’t care that we don’t ‘need’ anymore just now. When I tell you to shove more bagels into the ovens, I expect you to shove more bagels into the oven.”*
****
h/t CJ Burch
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
- In The Mailbox: 12.23.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll truly IS a sad, embittered psychopath
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Hey, what’s that smell?
That is a strangely horrible thing he is wearing round his neck. One tug and his peanut could be severed from the Presidential neck.
Jeff, you know what truly amazes me about this guy is that he firmly believs that his views on the middle east are actually worth listening to. Sometimes you just need to go away………
He’s pretending he’s from Texas, furriskey.
OT: This is a red-letter day for Jeff. Duke University has been reclaimed for intentionalism!
They all do when it’s them behind the eight ball, Paul.
Funny how that works, isn’t it?
On the other hand, Taylor Marsh has called me “obtuse” for thinking the Fairness Doctrine a danger to free speech.
I commented on her site, but I also updated yesterday’s post so that her many, many readers and listeners can picture her in Spock ears.
Tragedy for whom? There used to be a difference between tragedy and travesty.
You know, if you say “obtuse” enough, it really sounds funny.
And I thought it was the Jews that liked killing carpenters, not the other way around.
And don’t get me started on Duke.
And welcome back Jeff.
Jeff:
I, for one, have never found you obtuse.
Occasionally 45°, but never obtuse
<rimshot>
OK, put up time. Pass the petition to abolish sports at Duke and I’ll listen to what these airheads have to say.
Duke wants to be the Harvard of the South. Harvard plays, but they might as well not bother.
Who the fuck is Taylor Marsh?
Great googly-moogly, she’s from Missouri! I’m horrified. Maybe the Stephens College thing explains it.
Good to see you blogging again. (Anything KdT thinks is worth reading, I’ll at least have a look at…)
Bless you, but 1.having lived in Georgia all my life and never set foot in a Safeway and 2. knowing what a really, really, really small place Plains, Georgia (7/2005 population: 614) is, I checked.
No Safeway in Plains. Heck, there’s nothing I recognize as a chain grocery in that little wide spot on U.S. Highway 280/Ga. Highway 27 in SW Georgia.
In fact, there appear to be two mom ‘n’ pop convenience-type stores in Plains. You’d have to drive 10 or 15 miles to the nearby Sumter County metropolis of Americus (population 16, 873) to find “Harvey’s Supermarket”.
‘Sides, “the head baker at ‘Harvey’s Supermarket’ in nearby Americus, GA” sounds even MORE podunk.)
Jimmah is from one of the two or three most prominent families in a town of less than a thousand people. Jimmmah has traveled the world and immensely broadened his horizons, but he is after all small-town gentry. He has projected the self-righteous, narrow-minded paternalism of the (relatively) wealthy, small-town land baron onto the world stage.
Granted, the self-righteous narrow-minded paternalism of Plains isn’t that different from the self-righteous narrow-minded paternalism of say, Beacon Hill. More dangerous, maybe, because people don’t always see it coming.
After all, John Kerry can hardly pretend to be from humble beginnings…
I didn’t do it, this time.
I’m just sayin’.
Link cleanup, aisle one!
I thought it was “abstruse”.
“Abstruse”, heh. Guess I learnded a new word hear at the Protein Wisdoms.
Sorry guys; I’ll use the “http://” script next time.
“Hey, Mr. Carter. Some Saudis are outside. They’re here to deliver your new oven.”
Carter the worst President ever? Jeff, perhaps before you demonstrate all your teaching genius and Latin phrases for us, you could re-read some history.
After all, I think most of your readers would allow “worst President of the last 35 years” or “of my lifetime”, but “ever”?
How could he be worse than the only man to ever resign it?
How he could be worse than Buchanan? Polk? John Adams? Coolidge? For God’s sake Hoover’s refusal to deal with the Depression had parts of the country (the Midwest and portions of Texas and Oklahoma) in near anarchy. Armed soldiers had to scare away crowds of veterans from Washington, D.C.
So, you don’t like Carter and malaise, but watch the insane adjectives. That list of goofballs was off the top of my head and didn’t even include the litany of wonderful Presidents of the Reconstruction period, who squandered the legacy of the Union victory, allowed Jim Crow laws, and gave oodles and oodles of free land to railroads and other utilities. The nameless, vanilla Presidents of that period didn’t have close to legacy or accomplishments of President Carter (at the very least he brokered the only lasting peace agreement in the Middle East; you know, the one that has prevented a general Arab-Israeli war for the last 30 years. That is something.)
Just sad
and all for a bagel joke
But Timmy, did all those other guys go to foreign lands and actively work against their successors policys?
Just asking.
Sucking up to a lying shit-weasel like Yasser Arafat doesn’t count as “peacemaking” in my book, Timmy me boy. More like appeasement.
And didn’t he get Mr. Sadat whacked by the Muzzie brotherhood?
Tim: Just can’t keep yourself from stinking up the joint, can you?
Uh-Oh…little timmyb is lecturing Jeff. Funny stuff.
Sad? I think it’s brilliant. But then I’m not one of those sanctimonious progressives who somehow cling to the notion that the Israelis haven’t been at war from, well, about 1947 on. Blowing up grannies and schoolkids in pizzarias aren’t actually acts of war, you see. Kidnapping Israeli soldiers? Nothing. Lobbing missiles from southern Lebanon? How can one decide?
Dipshit.
Nice arguments, guys. I provide a thesis, you provide snarky little insults and non sequiturs. Something tells me Hegel would be disappointed.
Robert Dallek has very accesible works on the subjects of Presidents. Plus, you guys could just ask George Will. History is not that hard.
I consider him the worst President ever. You are free to disagree, Timmy.
As to your thesis, what of it? Are you saying because you offered it we must accept it?
The true horror of Carter won’t be seen (hopefully) for many more years. And when it is, it’s likely to be imprinted in the skies in the shape of giant mushroom.
Actually, Tim, the point of the post is not whether or not Carter is the worst president ever. Who cares about your so-called ‘thesis’? It’s a feint away from the real thrust of Jeff’s post which is that Carter has no problem whatever throwing the Jews to the wolves. He’s a bitch for Saudi money and he’s on the side of the terrorists. Evidence abounds in the daily newspapers.
This is a new carpet, by the way
That means you find him acute. NTTAWWT.
Hey! Hey! I am secure with my maleness! No bulging biceps, buns of steel, or the exotic and quixotic possibilities of a Jooooo are going to divert me from my masculine imperatives.
The red pills, however…
Yes, Jeff, I’ve offered and you must comment on it. YOU MUST! I COMMAND IT!
Damn, I wish I had that command. I was, however impressed by your ability to respond to my quibbling about a minor point and blow it up into accusing Carter of….hell, I don’t know, but it has something to do with mushroom bagels. The man’s been out of power for 27 years! I’m pretty sure that we know his legacy.
Anyway, thanks for repeating your assertion. You convinced me.
You might want to talk to Kelly, because Kelly has a problem conflating all violence with war. All wars are violent, Kelly, all violence is not war. Terrorism against Israelis (and sometimes by Israelis) occurred prior to statehood and continues to this day. Wars, featuring nation states, happened in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973. Peace with Egypt, the strongest Arab nation, was signed in 1977 and there have been no wars since. Wars threaten the very existence of the Israeli state; whereas terrorism creates work for fence building contractors.
As for Sadat, unfortunately, he knew the price of signing the Accord, much like Yitzak Rabin knew the possible price of signing Oslo. Peace in the Middle East puts the peacemaker smack dab in the middle of some crazy people’s rage. Ask Jesus
Nope, still not convinced.
Carter is still running around presuming to speak on behalf of the US (to at least some degree). So his legacy is not set.
And I’m not the one who tried blowing up a minor point into something major. I think ahem was on to something, above. Take a peek.
Jimmah is anti-Semetic? Jimmah is in bed with the Saudis? Jimmah, the Peacenik, is in bed with the terrorists.
Help me out, ahem, just provide a list of everybody who is a terrorist sympathizer. Yesterday, it was the AP, the “mainstram media”, and the pretty much all lefties (who are a defeatist fifth column). Today, it’s a former President and US Navy veteran.
Rather than trickle out the traitors’ names, let’s just make a list.
<<hoping this happens, just for the comedy value>>
PS Anyway, I’m done defending Carter. After all he was the least successful past president of my post-1974 life.
TimmyB: I hate to say it but ahem’s right. This thread isn’t about Carter’s legacy, although watching it sink to sub basement depths is interesting, in a 5 car/7 dead turnpike pileup kind of way.
Are you really trying to say that because terrorism doesn’t rise to the level of “threaten the very existance” that that violence is strictly …what? Inconvenient? Annoying? Does the fact that the terrorists (Hamas, Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad, etc.) have all stated many times that they consider themselves at war with Israel render your argument moot or simply reflect their childish naivete? We are not dealing with the classical definition of Nation-State wars. We are in the midst of a different kind of war. The fact that this war doesn’t “threaten the very existance” of a country in the traditional tanks – through – the – capital way doen’t make it any less a war or any less of a threat.
I must admit, that was a cunning thesis. The best way to devalue the GWOT would be to continue to define war at such a high level that terrorism, in all of its forms and possibilities, is relegated to an entirely different category. The problem is that it also diminishes the imperatives for dealing with it. Perhaps we are back to the criminals in dishtowels idea?
This, in a nutshell, is what concerns me most about progressive/liberal attitudes towards terrorism. It’s just a little too much ostrich like for me.
Great. Timmah’s a regular Mo Dowd: all vagina and no charm.
So by your logic, W should be hailed for bringing peace to Iraq?
And what has that got to do with this post?
You were done before you started. 14 of his co-workers can’t be wrong.
So you admit he was the least successful president. Is that coming out of your vast store of post-1974 knowledge? That’s very magnanimous of you. Color me impressed.
Let me help you out here. Many of us who read this blog used to believe much as you do. Some of us are even old enough to have voted for Carter in the first place and lived to regret it. (Not me, guys!)
You don’t seem to recognize that people are capable of changing their opinions over the course of their lives. And they do so after serious consideration of contradictory ideas and with good will. You may, too. I doubt in 20 years you resemble the person you are now. If you’re lucky, you won’t.
The Jim Crow laws were not passed during Reconstruction. When they ask historians to rank Presidents, Adams and Polk usually come in just below the top 10. Also, Nietzsche was not Belgian and the message of Buddhism is not “every man for himself”. These are mistakes; I looked them up.
Damn! Time to find a new religion…..
The evidence does seem to be mounting, if this is to be believed.
1976–The Democrats could have nominated Scoop Jackson and we’d have all been the better for it–especially now. All that feeble angst from Carter and the rest of the “America is the problem” faction would never have happened.
Instead, Ted Kennedy thinks Iraq is Vietnam, Chris Dodd is running for President, and Jimmah is hawking books filled with fabrications (which, in all fairness, pretty much describes his entire world view). Sheesh.
Oh, and Timmy–as my memory was functioning during the entire Carter presidency it was hideous. Wall-to-wall (and I give Sadat the Camp David credit, not Carter).
Carter is a sanctimonious idiot and so is Timmy.
Here endeth my contribution to the Great Debate.
The US Geological Survey announced today that vast reserves of high-grade sanctimony have been discovered in rural Georgia.
Shit! How long before we are overrun with French miners, now?
“After all, maybe it’s just the slackjawed proles who, in between sucks on the duelling straws of their beer helmets, lap up the Neo-Con lies.”
Hey! I am NOT slackjawed!
the nerve..
That Pierce-Buchanan duet of the 1850s is hard to beat. They were pretty gawdawful ex-presidents, too, IIRC.
But Timmy must have fallen down the well a few too many times if he thinks that Coolidge belongs in the same company as Pierce, Buchanan, and Carter.
Nice one, B Moe.
No. That would be me.
And my beer helmet leaks.
BJ, I’m sorry I don’t go in for the degradation of language posited by the “Global War on Terrorism.” You can’t a military operation agaisnt a tactic. Sorry.
Next for Bush administration the fans, the President announces the Global War on Ambushes.
Kelly, next time just post “sory, you were right.” Cuts to the chase
You didn’t answer my question, timmy. If, as you posit above, peace is the absence of war, and war can only be waged by nation states, doesn’t it follow then that Bush has brought peace to Iraq?
I wish that you would explain this one. Degradation of language? Perhaps it’s a Timmy definition of terms that needs to be adopted by us fascists warmongers as the GWOT as “war” is merely for propaganda unsupported by the “threat.”
I accept your apology for this wayward opinion. Are you raising the bar on Terrorism to “tactics” above criminality or are they one in the same, both of which do not rise to the TimmyB level of “war?” Does this also include the military action in Afganistan or does this apply only to Iraq? By your definition we are not on a war footing in Afganistan. If it’s not a war, what is it? Conflict? Police Action? Nation building? Extended Security? Radical Safari? Please, feel free to pick a term that fits your world view.
Tactics is a word that defines the planning and execution of violence whether or not the conflict snuggles up against your historical war definition. Fighting an insurgency (in either country) involves dealing with the tactics of the combatants; ambushes, snipers, IED’s, suicide bombers, etc. The big difference between these insurgencies and, say, the Wolfpack in Germany is that they flow from several sources (Baathists, foreign terrorists, sectarian militias) all of whom, to various degrees, have the support of outside countries seeking to establish their own proxy adventures. It differs from Vietnam in that a nation state from the north decided to commit its military resources to eventually, take over the “insurgent” fight.
Perhaps you would be more comfortable with a solid declaration of war against Iran, as we have captured their combatants in Iraq. There’s your nation-state definition presented on a platter. Obviously we don’t want to do that at this time but that time may be coming. In the meantime I contend that the threat is easily justified as to meet a new, modern definition of a war, one in which the military is but one piece of the pie.
The times, they are a changin’…
Have to agree with you there, BJTexs. For a number of years I was actively engaged in a war on terror and that is most certainly where we stand at present with regard to the global threat of Islamism.
As it happens, there are tactics which can be deployed against terror just as there are tactics that can be deployed against armour.
I reckon when it comes to the degradation of language, young Timmy has a couple of laps on the rest of us. But I will put my mind to thinking up a tactic to counter his cunning.
furriskey;
I am honored that a military man would deign to comment on this civilian’s rant on tactics, so thanks! I’m still trying to come to grips with Timmy’s “intent” in attempting to declassify the “war” declaration in the GWOT by equating tactics with “conflict identity.” Even though I’m a civilian I think understand the difference between tactics and conflict.
If not to simply justify his opposition to Iraq then what’s his point, exactly?
As far as I can tell, he and Alphie have just the one aim in common, which is to be pointless.
“You can’t have a war against a tactic” is one of those things wannabe-clever people say in the mistaken belief that it’s clever. Rather like saying “The US is a republic, not a democracy”, or objecting to the use of “hopefully” to introduce a sentence.
Might I recommend the trusty bitchslap?
BJ – I think you forgot to close the this tag. pls include </rimshot> next time to add audio to your post.
Pablo – yes! you can
looks like this <bitchslap> insert copy </bitchslap>
though, I will say that some might find the sound 1) highly offensive, or worse, 2) erm… stimulating.
you’ll only hear it from those of the #1 persuasion, though. So, it’s entirely up to you.
TimmyB
What do you make of the fact that those who know Jimmy well, and who have served him over the years are abandoning him in droves due to what by all appearances is his rank anti-semitism? A mistake? Simple misunderstanding?
Not the worst, IMO, but certainly top 5. However, he certainly seems to be a bigot, or at least willing to act as the mouthpiece for bigotry.
Top 5 meaning worst 5.
Unlike the distinction between arguing one must not call a 1777 naval vessel “English”?
BJ, you know exactly waht I meant. Was Eric Rudolph a terrorist? Are we going to occupy North Carolina? The United Kingdom seems to have a problem with terrorism, are we invading Belfast?
Terrorism has been around since explosives were invented (and many historians would argue before, as state sponsored terrorism, i.e. the eradication of an entire city, goes back to the Assyrians). You can’t stop “terrorism”. You can stop Islamic wackos.
By your logic, we would be invading Cechnya to stop terrorists there.
Anyway, how far have we come from calling Carter worse than Nixon or Hoover or Grant? Pretty far. It was a minor point, but Jeff’s intransgience and the respect it garners him here should inspire to throw that hat in the ring for the 2008 nomination. that kind of stubborness is welcomed in Republican circles (yes, BJ, I generalized).
I can admit when I’m wrong. Are bloggers genetically programmed to never do that?
Yeah. It’s something, but, as usual, it ain’t what you think it is.
That particular agreement is possible only because, by treaty, we are required to place a battalion of US troops and two battalions of international forces, in between Israel and Egypt in addition to giving each of those contries a number of millions of dollars each year.
The effect is that Egypt can point to the MFO troops and explain to their Arab brethern that they don’t really get along with Israel and likewise, Israel has no need to actually get along with Egypt either.
The money, of course, has been grist for the human rights crowd’s mill for the intervening decades, never looking into the actual reason for the aid payments.
No. I do not count this an an accomplishment, any more than I’d consider bandaging a gangrenous limb a medical breakthrough.
Even if it were, the debacle (an actual debacle rather than a perceived one) code named Eagle Claw, more than wipes it out. Symptoms of the same disease–a band-aid solution to allow someone (Carter) to take credit for trying.
Redeploy the Troops!!!
I should hope so, what with all the practice you must have. You still haven’t answered my question.
RTO:
Not that life in Kandahar is the lap of luxury, but who would you have to piss of to get Sinai duty?
Yeesh!
TimmyB:
You really need to do better than above:
1) The FBI did “invade” sizable chunks of rural N.C. looking for the elusive Mr. Rudolph. We were pretty certain that he wasn’t looking to kill thousands of our with foreign help nor did he seem the suicide type. Besides, he was fairly incompetant as a terrorist compared to todays models.
2) No Irish terrorists threatened the US and, besides, the Brits took good care of them. Right furriskey? Our intervention was unnecessary.
3) Terrorism sponsored by Nation-States on a global scale with safe havens to operate and having access to ever increasingly powerful weapons with the will and the stated intent to use them is a relatively recent wrinkle, Timmy. Those pesky Islamists! Haven’t you been paying attention.
4) Chechnya: see answer number 2 and sub “Crazy Russians” for the Brits.
5) Islamic wackos who have sponsorship and haven will require that we step up against the nation states that harbor and or support them. Not all of those actions will involve overt military action, but some will. The choices are called “tactics” which are honed by developing “strategies.”
Lumping all of terrorism into one big crock pot in an attempt to paint my argument as simple minded is, well, bad “tactics.”
PS: I’m thinking that Peyton could crack granite with his butt cheeks right about now…
It gets better BJTexs, guess where most of RTO’s unit was deployed a couple years ago! RTO was in a different unit at the time, but came very close to going with them, til the Army lost his medical records. (I mean, we were getting ready to leave that weekend to drop him off when they called him Friday afternoon to let him know he wasn’t going anywhere til they found/he supplied his stuff) anyhoo, the 1/180th spent some time in the Sinai. yay! and RTO got to go to Kabul the next year instead.
Maggie: LOL! I’ll have to ask him what’s worse; being in Kabul or having the opportunity to be broiled and bored to death!
BJ, you’re crazy about politics, but you’re dead on about Manning. My Patriot friend send me an Oinion article “Manning Family announces Ninth Annual Super Bowl watching Party”. Funny stuff.
As for RTO, missing the forest for the trees (like there are any trees where you are?) in this argument. NPR had Karzi on the other day saying he hopes the Taliban bring it on with their “spring offensive”. Like the Taliban is the freakin Red Army c. 1944. Stay safe and keep the A-10’s close and the Afghans as far away as possible.
BMoe, not sure what your question was, but copy it for me and I’ll see what I can do
TimmyB: All things in football being equal, nothing beats having a quarterback whose greatest capability is being tough in the clutch. That is the legacy of Unitas, Namath, Elway, Starr, Stabler, Staubach, Montana, Bradshaw and is the millstone around the necks of Marino, Kelly and Tarkenton. Brady’s legacy is pretty much secured while there is some concern that Peyton is being measured for the chain. It’s interesting to note that if the Colts beat the Patriots in much the same fashion as they won their last two games, no improvement to Manning’s legacy will be forthcoming.
So you’re using an obscure version of Ebonics/ English wherein “crazy” means “prudent” and “sensible.” Right?
Here’s a link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/01/AR2006120101509.html
Foner is one of the finest American historians writing today. Ignore the Bush rhetoric and peep out the list.
this wikipedia list breaks the scholars down by political affiliation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents#Presidents_by_average_scholar_rank
My point is and remains, calling Jimmah the worst President ever (when the preceding elected gent had to resign due to felonious conduct) is a joke.
Go ahead and dislike his current politics, but check silliness at the door.
I win, I win, I win. [that is me taunting]
For the third time now:
If, as you posit above, peace is the absence of war, and war can only be waged by nation states, doesn’t it follow then that Bush has brought peace to Iraq?
And thanks for helping prove my theory that leftards are -tards because they can’t/won’t read.
More important question: why the fuck isn’t Kenny Stabler in Canton?
Jeffie: short answer … too hairy.
Timmy, what don’t you get about opinion?
I think you are retarded if you think Nixon was a worse pres than Carter.That is a subjective judgement, based on my ideas of what makes a president good/bad, and therefore cannot be attacked like I have a fact wrong. Nixon at least has some accomplishments for his legacy. His ability to open up China was a huge benifit for the country, and IMO set the stage for the downfall of the USSR, as well as beginning the slow process of modifying China to a more capitalistic system.
All Carter did was bring on the misery index, and in the middle east, as RTO said, (paraphrasing) screwed the pooch.
Get over yourself, that it’s your opinion doesn’t make it a fact.
By the way, Nixion resigned because he thought an impeachment would be bad for the country (if only Clinton would have realized that), he was not found guilty of anything.
rereading that, I now see that if Clinton had resigned, Gore might be president now, so maybe Clinton enduring the impeachment was best for the country.
SecProgg Translator: Rewriting history to fit my ideology is not that hard. Really! I do it all the time. Take this jem for example-
See! Its as simple as pie!
Thanks for the lesson Timmah.
Sure, Lee, everything is relative.
I remember why I didn’t answer you question. Because, like most of your questions, it’s bullshit. It’s a reductio absurdum of my explanation to Kelly.
Kelly and I were discussing Israel and the difference between nation states and war and criminals and terrorism and which is actually existentially threatening to the state.
You offer a silly comparison: I argue not all violence is war and you argue the absence of nation state war equals peace. Arguing with a fool is not what I came to do.
Obviously, Iraq is involved in a civil war, thus peace, how it is typically defined, does not exist in Iraq. If, however, you want to pervert my argument and declare peace is the absence of nation state war, I cannot disabuse you, since I am but a leftard who exists for you to stand outside an argument and offer Hannity-esque questions and obversations.
or not. there you go with the assertions again. perhaps we should go with “maybe, depending on who you talk to, Iraq is involved in a civil war.”
You argued:
That implies to me that an agreement which prevents a war, which you define thusly:
Any such agreement is apparently to you a peace agreement of some merit. Under those parameters one could consider Bush to have brought peace to Iraq, or:
nor Israel.
Timmy,
Well, possibly I am a fool (if I was, how would I know?)
I do, however, know who I am insulting.
I believe perhaps you are confusing me with B Moe.
I was responding to this:
Go ahead, admit you were wrong.
Game and second set to Mr Moe. New balls, please.
I’m arbor-optically challenged, but TimmyB doesn’t even know why I’m here.
Dude, we’re training the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police. Not letting them in close makes that mission pretty well impossible.
What have you got against Afghans anyway? These are some of the most courageous people I’ve ever had the good fortune to be associated with. The challenge in training these guys is not to get them to rush an enemy position, it’s restraining them to wait for the right time to rush it.
Did you miss the news? CNN muddled the story pretty badly, but hte basic facts are there. My base (Camp Phoenix) was attacked a couple of days ago. Outside the gate, an Afghan security guard (we call him Rambo) (we pay him for this service, because he’s been doing it since the US arrived, whether paid or not) realized a vehicle approaching the gate was a problem. Knowing that this was a VBIED, he rushed the car, smashed the window with the stick (he won’t carry a modern weapon) he carries and hauled the driver from the vehicle. An interpreter, waiting to pass through security, rushed in to assist, helping Rambo keep the driver’s hands appart where he was still trying to contact a pair of wires to detonate the car.
But you feel free to run these people down.
You know as much about Afghans as you do about Afghanistan’s arboreal status.
Karzai: Yes he wants the Taliban to bring it in the Spring offensive. That’s the best thing that could happen. We were all hoping that they’d make good on their promise to fight through the winter rather than going into con, and we cantonement as they usually do. There’s been some activity, but not much. No one expected the winter to be this rough, and we can operate freely in it. They can’t.
The Taliban are playing a game of Darwin Roulette with us here. The harder they fight the sooner we eradicate them.
Man RTO, someone should make a movie about that Rambo guy.
TimmyB: I think it would be advisable to lay off of Afghanistan as long as RTO is around. Snarky, inaccurate generalizations aren’t going to cut it when someone is actually, you know, there!
Be safe, RTO. Just remember; ya coulds been in the Sinai!
RTO knows Afghanistan because he’s been there a year and met a thousand Afghans? He should be awarded a doctorate in Central Asian studies.
Like all groups of people, there are good and bad Afghans. However, in the history of the world (as it is recorded from Thucydides down to Ahmad Rashid) the Afghans are crafty lot of people who don’t like foreigners (the kicked the hell out of Xerxes, they gave Alexander (the greatest warrior ever) fits, and when he died, they threw the Greeks out, they bothered the Persians and Indians and Chinese throughout history and gave us wonderful conquerors like Tamerlane (technically, he was Uzbek…pause, while BJ gets his encyclopedia to see where Uzbekistan is…but he made his bones in Afghanistan.
Fast forwarding to the 19th century, they allowed the English in twice and then kicked the crap out of them, so much so that United Kingdom decided Afghanistan and the neighboring territory in Pakistan wasn’t worth occupying and they ran away.
No one was stupid enough to mess with the Afghans or the Pushtuns of Pakistan (including the Pakistanis, who realized early on the Pushtuns were a state within a state) until 1979. The Russians arrived, installed a puppet government and then were thrown out by rebelling tribesmen, including many who had originally allied themselves with the Russians (see Dostum).
During the civil war that followed the warlords in Afghanistan, keeping with tradition, allied themselves to whomever the most powerful faction was, whether it was Hekmatyar and his artillery blasting of Baghdad or Ismail Khan and his war with Dostum.
When the ISI funded and created the Taliban, the dynamic changed as the Taliban marshaled the popular feelings of the Pashtun south with the guns and money of the Pakistanis. They swept through the country, chasing the warlords who wouldn’t switch sides before them.
Then we came along and RTO’s reliable allies switched sides again. Cash payments and guns and allowing them to grow poppies where they want inspired Dostum and Khan to back us until they regained power and re-established their fiefdoms.
This fine quote “The respected European think tank, the Senlis Council, reported last month that the Taliban is “taking back Afghanistan†and now controls much of the southern and eastern parts of the country. According to the report, “U.S. policies in Afghanistan have re-created the safe haven for terrorism that the 2001 invasion aimed to destroy.†The Taliban are as ruthless as ever, attacking civilians who refuse to support them and specifically targeting women working for relief groups. They are not alone, however. What the Bush administration labels “Taliban†also includes a growing coalition that consists of other clans of Pashtun warriors long renowned for their resistance to foreigners, as well as nationalist forces once backed by the United States during the 1980s in the war against the Communist regime in Kabul. Very few of the guerrillas confronting American and other NATO forces are foreigners or al-Qaeda. Virtually all of them are ordinary Afghans. Some identify with the Taliban, some do not. All see themselves as part of the longstanding tradition of resisting outside invaders, whether British, Soviets, or Americans.â€Â
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/3597
The Pashtuns around Kandahar and to the east are the very people who a) allowed bin Laden to escape Tora Bora (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0304/p01s03-wosc.html)
and have harbored ever since in Pakistan.
I’m glad you’re confident in the policemen you’ve trained. I note you’re a helluva lot more confident than the British C-in-C who just left Afghanistan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6032249.stm)
and me, the guy who has read history and been fascinated by Central Asia for a couple of decades.
I hope you’re right and the UN, NATO, the UK, and the Canadians are all wrong. As I said before “keep close to the A-10’s.” and for God’s sake do not look at any paintings by Lady Butler.
You were right about Afghans being great people. They are strong, stubborn, and fierce. Throughout history they haven’t taken to foreigners. I’m sure you’ve changed all that.
PS Jimmy Carter still not the worse President in history, although I note, since the posting of the articles regardign the worst presidents in history, there has been a deafening silence ont he issue (except for Lee’s witty “Oh, yeah?”)
Godspeed, RTO. Maybe you and BJ and Maggie can all hang out when you get back. Texas is big, but it can’t be than big
Polk and John Adams still ranked 10 and 11 according to your very own source; Jim Crow laws still not enacted during Reconstruction. Deafening silence, indeed.
IIRC, RTO is on his second tour in the ‘stan. What are your credentials, Timmah?
Oh, you’ve got book larnin’! Dat’s got to be a durn sight better than being a redneck warmongerer with his boots on the ground communing with those evil? honorable? terrorist? brown people.
Jimmy Carter is the reason we’re still at war with Islamism. Had he had the nads to protect America’s interests, this all would have been nipped in the bud, back in ‘79. He did absolutely nothing with any positive lasting impact, unless of course you’re Panamanian.
And your trumping credentials are….?
<chirp….chirp….chirp….>
However respected tehy may be, this paragraph is virtually devoid of correct statements.
You need better sources.
Then again, there is nothing to stop you travelling here yourself. There was a Seniors group, US and Canadian, that toured here while I was on my first trip here.
My cat was fascinated by the tin-foil icicles on the Christmas tree. She had no fucking idea what they were, but they still fascinated her.
Given the reading comprehension skills you have shown here, timmy, I doubt anyone will be particular impressed by the fact you have “read history”. Up until now, I have tried to be playfully antagonistic, as you have not shown any significant maliciousness, but dismissing RTO as you have is completely unacceptable as far as I am concerned. RTO has shown himself to be very intelligent, open-minded, and is puttiing his ass on the line for us. You, on the other hand, appear to be a pig-headed, semi-literate fool.
Fuck off.
For reading history, you didn’t learn much. The bigest reason I respond to your comments is your constant mangling of history. (Since you want credentials, I have got a BA in the subject.) T
Regarding hte ANP mission. We only just took on that job. Until about 3 months ago, ISAF was in charge of it and the Grmans in particualr were handling the training. I’d have thought that would be a great choice, but…. No. The present ANP do not fill me with any great confidence. But we turned the Afghan Militia and various Northern and Easter Alliance types into a professional army. That gives me confidence for the ANP in a year or two.
Pay attention. BJ isn’t from Texas. Maggie is my wife.
Nathan Miller, author of The Star-Spangled Men: America’s Ten Worst Presidents, ranks Carter number one among the worst. Miller wrote that ‘Electing Jimmy Carter President was as close as the American people have ever come to picking a name out of the phone book and giving him the job.’ I concur. Everyone old enough recalls the high inflation under Carter, and his foreign record was just as bad. Henry Kissinger summarized it this way: ‘The Carter administration has managed the extraordinary feat of having, at one and the same time, the worst relations with our allies, the worst relations with our adversaries, and the most serious upheavals in the developing world since the end of the Second World War.’”
See. I can cherry-pick articles, too.
It’s fun to watch the smackdowns when the newbies start wrangling outside their league.
I don’t like Adams (Alien and Sedition Acts), others are free to like him. I made no claim that he was the worst ever only he was worse than Carter. Meanwhile, Polk’s exciting trumped up war against Mexico is less than impressive. Again, I said he worse than Carter, not the worst. That distinction goes to the Nixon/Hoover tie.
From Wikipedia, “During the Reconstruction period of 1865-1876, federal law provided civil rights protection in the South for freedmenâ€â€the African-Americans who had formerly been slaves. Reconstruction ended at different dates (the latest 1877), and was followed in each Southern state by Redeemer governments that passed the Jim Crow laws to separate the races. In the Progressive Era the restrictions were formalized, and segregation was extended to the federal government by President Woodrow Wilson in 1913.”
Thanks for the exciting quibbling. I referred to the period of 1870-1890 as Reconstruction, when Reconstruction ended in 1876. I stand blissfully corrected – – something none of you would ever say (see Jamil Hussein)
Pablo, was Jimmy supposed to invade Iran in 1979? Is that your genius idea? Life isn’t a game of Risk. You just go around beating the hell out of people, because you don’t like them.
As to your larger point, The Islamic fundamentalism we fight today, Mr. President, err Pablo, (oops, I have trouble remembering the names of people who don’t know the difference between Shia and Sunni) is Saudi and Sunni. The Iranian Revolution was Shia and has been exported exactly once (to the Lebanese Shia). Try to keep the brown people straight, Pablo. Al Queda doesn’t like Shia and the Shia aren’t fond of the Sunnis. You think Iraq would have taught you that.
As to rto, you must be right because you’re there. Take a couple of unescorted hikes in the countryside come April and let me know how things are. In the meantime, you should tell David Richards and Robert Gates there is no need for more troops in the Pashtun region, because you trained some guys and gave one guy a nickname.
4000 years of history changed by one Texan who cares!
You’re better than Christ, rto. Christ saved humanity, but you’ve saved America. Thanks
Sarcasm is more effective when either subtle or abstract. I interpret these fumbling attempts at absurdity as sour-grapes and accept your capitulation and inability to reply to the issues.
I’m an Okie. I only live in Texas.
Failure to pay attention…again.
TW: Can Timmy even navigate the lower48?
That is way the hell over the line.
TimmyB: you’ve crossed the line from being a self important snarky but mildly amusing lefty commentator to insulting asshole. I’m very disappointed in you.
Since everyone else has long moved past the Jim Crow and Carter as Worst President topics, I’ll just skip your first three paragraphs.
Because that was the only other option? What crap! Instead, we have a Special Forces operation that was limited in scope by the pantywaists in Jimmah’s cabinet. Thus it was ill planned, undermanned and doomed to failure, which insured that any other options would be compromised. Don’t be such an ass as to suggest only one option when others might have worked better, including the entire process of dealing with what was essentially an act of war. Jimmah fumbled the ball from day one because he and his happy crew of clueless though that they could either negotiate their way out or come up with some clever, bloodless way to make the whole thing go away.
Bullshit! Most of the globally committed terrorists are wahabbi Sunni but not all are from Saudi Arabia. The offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood have contributed many bodies to the global effort and most of those are from Egypt or Jordan (or have you forgotten Zawahiri from Egypt.) Those are less wahabbi and more Qutb and Rashid Rasa (you can look it up.) Hezbullah has been making an effort to catch up. See here, and here, and here.
Your ignorance of radical Islamic Jihadists and both their history and current makeup is both shocking and alarming.
The rest of your little tantrum is just an insulting vent against a serving Army man in country who wouldn’t kowtow to your self proclaimed expert line on the country in which he has spent 2 tours. There is nothing more idiotic than an amateur “scholar” lecturing about 4000 year old history to those in country. Insulting and ignorant.
Being a Christian, I forgive you for insulting my
Savior, but you’re still an asshole for saying it and slandering RTO in the same sentance.
Uncharitably, I hope that Peyton Manning gets his butt seriously pounded on Sunday.
Now try to bring your Middle East knowledge up to the present day and stop quoting Alexander for cryin’ out loud.
Ignorant slut!
Forgot to say, I’m out. This will soon degenerate into name-calling and high school-esque taunts. We already have some hannity-esque ranting. I leave the field to you, as Kutuzov left Borodino to the French.
As opposed to over the line insults and religious slurs to serving soldiers.
Name calling moment repeated: Ignorant Slut.
Don’t let the door hit you on the ass…
Hey, guys!
So, what did I miss?