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From the one-eyed man, in ahem’s post, below:
“the terrorists want the Democrats to win and they’ve said as much, loserâ€Â
Uh, no. The war in Iraq was a godsend to Al Qaeda: it is the best recruitment tool they could have dreamed of. Terrorism has flourished in the past six years, with attacks here, England, Spain, Bali, and elsewhere. There was no Al Qaeda presence in Iraq until we invaded, and now (according to Bush) the country is filled with them.
Besides the catastrophic bungling of Iraq, what other gifts has the administration given to terrorists? Well, we invaded Afghanistan, then ignored it to invade Iraq, and now the Taliban controls most of the country outside Kabul. We’ve alienated our allies and made their cooperation much harder to obtain. We’ve even put instructions on how to make a nuclear bomb on the Internet.
The Clinton administration recognized the threat with Al Qaeda posed and went after them, despite obstruction from the GOP (which cut funding on the Omnibus anti-terrorism bill and prevented the administration from tracking down terrorists’ financial assets). The Bush administration shut down the task force to find bin Laden, who is alive and well.
You can whine all you want about Democrats, but the fact is that the current administration has been the gift which keeps on giving to terrorists. To quote Ronald Reagan: facts are stubborn things. You might want to learn the facts before making your inane announcements
fiskhus Jim:
Given your comments above, it’s very clear that you do not possess the personal courage and integrity required of all citizens of our Great republic. Instead, it seems, you’d prefer to do away with freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and freedom of religion. It is also clear that, like the ancient Hebrews who rejected God’s Judges, you’d rather not live under a government of law; you’d rather have a king you could obey without having to think too much.
You are a disgrace to this country. But then, most Republicans are failed Americans, failed Christians and disgraceful human beings.
david (poor david):
For those of you who are new to the PW cesspool, this is a very sad, pathetic, and rapidly shrinking island of paranoid delusion and eliminationist fantasy. Please do not expect engagement or coherence, you will be disappointed. Oh, yeah. They will swear at you (a lot) and call you names (I think they think it’s funny, or insulting, or something).
Still waiting for that substantive post, david. Your chance to dazzle us with your brilliance.
And if that’s not enough motivation, we’ve got this brilliant Bill Whittle post.
Hypothetical question: Were the nation’s mentally ill—the pathologically dishonest, the delusional, the morally schizophrenic—and the nation’s opportunists—the cheats, the thieves, the willful dependents—to gather into a political party, which would it be?
The perpetual party of Democrat revisionism, fear, intolerance, envy, greed, sloth, and arrogance?
So in other words, as one-eye and Jim and poor david show us, even when you’re completely whacked you still need a home.
The Democrats: Leaving a light on for all of God’s children.
(Even the bigots and racists.)
With what, a cigar?
My thoughts exactly. How did they go “after” Al Queda?
Ah. You know what’s cool? They even included the swearing part. I feel proud!
TW: note to new PW’ers– you WILL be abused here. At ease!
And not in a bad way, I might add.
Abuse for all!
TW: You just needed to say that, didn’t you?
Clinton didn’t even bother to visit the WTC after the 1993 attack.
Good gawd. Where to start?
Just who the fuck are these “allies” you cite? Name one. What “cooperation” are you talking about? “We’ve” put nuclear bomb instrux on the net? Really? Couldn’t this info been obtainable from, oh, about a dozen different, non-US, sources?
I, for one, was not brutally abused as a newcomer to PW. Did I miss something? Darn.
Steyn’s book could not be more timely. I wish I could say that his awesome writing made his topic matter less depressing but I can’t. We truly are America Alone. What’s worse is that damn near half of this country is on the other side as well.
I am smert and you are poopy.
If the Red State politicians were really worried about terrorist attacks…they’d implement some decent port security to protect us poor Blue Staters.
What I find most shocking about liberals like those Jeff has illuminated for our amusement and disgust, is that some of them are not on hallucinogenic drugs. It’s simply hard to imagine than any being with 46 chromosomes could actually believe the things these people say.
– On this day of the “shuckin’ and skinnin’” of ‘Merica, Let all of us among the LLK of the Colbalt Blue Meson Jars, give thanks to our creator, that he has given us fine sites like PW, where we can assemble in a show of good faith and mutual understanding, to kick the living crap out of the fucktwit trolls of the party of perpetually paranoid ‘Merica haters. All this, and the well drinks are only a buck. what’s not to like?
– perform little monkey, perform…..
Same here.
Well, Mona did try to slap me once, but I could tell her heart wasn’t in it and it would never last.
Show some of us dumb hicks out west a Red State with a coastline and then we’ll talk.
’Cuz, y’know–searching millions of cargo containers a day is way more smart and cost effective than killing a couple hundred terrorists once!
Just like enforcing the no-fly zone in perpetuity and starving Iraqi kids forever is way more righteous and moral than shooting the actual bad guys….
I’ve got your digital waterboarding right here!
Maybe we could hire the Chinese Expeditionary Force to inspect the other containers on their way over.
– this whole “inspect all the containers….inspect all the containers”, is just item 6 on the carping list of the Left. Most of them wouldn’t know a shipping container if it fell on them. But it sounds good. Actually it’s a complete bullshit whine. Most containers are already inspected for contraband of all stripes, let alone maschine parts, which are ALWAYS inspected. But wait. It’s even more feckless than that. Almost everyone with any experience in the security/weapons world absolutely reject’s the idea that a terrorist org gets it’s hands on a nuke, and is going to be willing to stick it in a container, whence it is sealed and out of their control UNTIL it is realeased after quarenteen in the US port of destination. tey’re just not going to take that chance. Period.
– What they will do possibly, is ship the individual parts over the border by truck, but the Left hasn’t heard about that one yet, so they haven’t starting ankle biting on the border thing. In addition, they’d be stepping on their own crank to really back border enforcement, because you know, that would cut off that yearly flow of new illegal alien Dem voters.
So, given that we’ve been in Iraq for just 3 years, what does this tell us?
1. The one eyed man needs some work on his spin
2. Wesley Clark is a goddamned moron because of Iraq.
“[The] war in Iraq was a godsend to Al Qaeda…”
– Out of the estimated original 20 to 25 thousand Jiahadists/Wahhabist lunitics, the DoJ estimates that roughly 20,000 have already been sent to their 72 virgins, and 18 out of the 21 main leaders are now wearing sirt suits. If that’s a godsend, more amd faster please.
– This Lefturd screed that “we’ve” created Terroists is about the most assinine garbage they’ve come up with yet. EVERYTHING you do in any conflict, the enemy will try to use to rally their side. To not understand this so badly they use it as a talking point, just shows you how lost they’d be in trying to deal with this threat. Maybe toss a few missles at an aspirin factory maybe, or as Zell put it: “the Dems say they don’t want to use the normal tools or weapons to fight the WOT. what are they going to do, throw spitballs at them”
Gray: Are you that asswipe from Germany? Or are you another asswipe?
I’m going to say this once: read Claudia Rossett’s series on Iraq’s Oil-For-Food scandal in the UN. Then go and sodomize youself.
And consider yourself lucky. I’m feeling good tonight.
If the Red State politicians were really worried about terrorist attacks they’d transport all you useful Blue State idiots to the South Pole and nuke it from orbit.
Hmmm,
The DoJ claims we’ve managed to kill 25,000 terrorists so far in the “war” on them.
Way high, but let’s go with it.
We’ve also spent about $2.5 trillion on “defense” since the start of the “war.”
I reckon that’s $100,000,000 per terrorist killed.
That’s 100 million dollars per terrorist killed.
Considering they signed up for a few hundred bucks…
Enjoy the pork while it lasts, y’all.
Let’s hope the audit team get elected today…
Ahem, you might want to recalibrate the sarcasm detector and re-examine that post.
Leftist contradiction number #187549: Complain about how much collateral damage the US inflicts. Wait for the US to spend time and money so that military operations cause less collateral damage. Then complain about all the money spent on defense. Further complicate matters by continuing to complain about the collateral damage.
Leftist contradiction number #236081: Complain about the US measuring success in war by body bags. When the US military spends time and money on reconstruction and nation building, measure war as a summation of body bags.
The DoJ claims we’ve managed to kill 25,000 terrorists so far in the “war†on them.
Way high, but let’s go with it.
– Actually monkypoo it’s rather low. We killed more than that in Afghanistan alone. Might be twice that, but the Taliban always drag as many bodies off the battlefield, because they simply can’t afford an accurate body count. Hard enough getting people to throw their bodies into a wood chipper as it is.
– Now back up simian-simpleton, and plug in the biggest part of the cost, the reconstruction in Iraq, and you might be onto something. I know watching all those dollars you could be doling out to welfare slackers is driving you nutz, but try a little harder. you’re nothing if not consistant. consistantly fucked up.
Civilis – quite.
The “bodycount” I helped add was an “assist” on two guys who had just launched x3, 107mm rockets at my base.
On the other hand, I had $1,000,000 in CERP funds at my disposal and built schools, bridges, dug a whole bunch of deep wells and irrigation wells. Distributed clothes, medical supplies, school supplies, food…but I am sure that all adds up to “expensive failure”
Um, we in EUCOM knew that in 1997…
The Taliban ain’t “terrorists,” BBh.
They’re insurgents…
If the DoJ is counting them…we may actually have spent over $1 billion for every terrorist we’ve killed so far.
Yee-haw!
Monky: You’re so fucking stupid, you’re a waste of time.
Yee haw!!
There’s monkyboy, again. Just nuke ‘em, monky. Hell, those things are just losing potency in their silos. Why not, right?
– When the Taliban decided to join al Qaeda, with Jihadi training camps, ect, they became the same thing. Who do you think we’re fighting in Afghanistan still monkeyass, the Afghan boyscouts.
– First you make an assinine non-workable stupid comparison, then you retreat by trying to pick hairs about definitions. If it’s shooting at us in the WOT, it’s an insurgent, thug, terrorist, fuckhead. we’ll killed a hell of a lot of them. Many more than 25,000. I’m sure they only wished your idiotic comments were true.
– and BTW monkeyshit… It will be interseting to see how much longer they can keep biting it at the consistant kill ratios we’ve seen, most recently in Lebanon, where they’re even worse than Iraq. In Afghanistan it’s got to be somewhere up around 300 or 400 to 1 or higher. Many many thousands were dusted in the Afghan war early on without one US loss, other than a random accident here and there. No movement can sustain that sort of loss rate for an extended period, even the Muslim nutbags.
Victory is easy when you use pretend numbers, BBh.
Looks like we’ve got a couple of Vietnam style victories goin’.
Yee-haw!
Yee-haw!
and a Yee-haw! for the triumph in Lebanon for good measure…
The Taliban aren’t primitive and evil either, monkyprick, just misunderstood. Torture and murder as a way of life are just alternative.
So anyway, how would you run the world when your boyz get in, you sorry ‘tard? I’m so all about solutions … and I hear J. Effing K. has a Planâ„¢.
– Speaking of “pretend”, you can keep typing your idiotarian bullshit monkey, until the keys fall off. Maybe that will slow the slaughter of your brother Fascists. You think?
– It would really be amazing to hear just one Dem answer the question of what they would do. I watched talking head after talking head from the Dem camp on TV, all day today, being asked the same question. Not a single one said anything to answer the question. The answer is always the stock “Well Bush’s stay the course isn’t working”.
– The idea that because things are tough in any war, is a basis to switch to a party that has no alternatives, but just keeps mumbling the same tired words over and over, is the height of idiocy. What’s the point. Cut and run is not an answer. The assinine idea of “redeployment” to Okanawa, where we can guard the coconuts, is even more rediculous.
– Face it monkeyputz, you’ve got nothing.
– Hey monkycrap…..Tennessee voters are 85% to 15% for the state Constitution change to define marraige as “between a man and a woman”, one of each. Nows your chance to cuss out all those southern red neck homphobes…. go to it….
I think most Americans only consider people who would attack America itself as “terrorist,” BBh.
If you need to label every peasant with a $10 assault rifle a “terrorist” to make it look like we’re accomplishing something over there in Asia…well, seems like old times.
I think the Democrats plan is pretty simple…pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq now…and actually defend America.
Oh, and capture or kill Osama bin Laden…
If the filthy leftists (YEE-HAW!) hate america and especially Americans (YEE-HAW!) so badly, how come they want to run America (YEE-HAW?)
You’re joking, right, Gray? What do you think of Noodle’s quote?
monky–
Please explain what turning Afghanistan over to the Taliban and Iraq over to Sunni-Shia Iranian/Syrian proxy war is going to do for American defense, and further how pulling out is going to make it possible to invade Pakistan to kill bin Laden, who may already be dead. Then explain to me how you fadge killing bin Laden when presently he seems not to be much of a direct threat with your views on capital punishment.
Hey, have you ever noticed what an idiot you are?
The filth leftists want to run america so they can make it unamerican?
No, they want to run America all right . . . into the ground. Because they detest America, and its inherent stupidity, because it disagrees with them, every day and every way, in the way it gets up in the morning and goes out to work its ass off.
Are you saying al Qeada is no longer a threat to the U.S., Dan?
Al Qaeda is still a threat to America.
Moreso than ever with their willing accomplices in the media and the filthy leftist quislings on this very blog.
Honestly, I don’t think they hate america, I think they have daddy problems. America is just some kind of proxy for daddy and the fanatical Mohammedans are a stand-in for their anger as a teenager.
I think they hope that Al Qaeda stands up to america like they never stood up to daddy could as teenagers.
It’s not a political view, it’s a personal problem.
Really, the only difference between a pacifist and a traitor is that a traitor may not also be a coward as well!
Is al-Qaeda Osama bin Laden, who may already be dead, monky? Did you bother to read the links about Saddam’s terrorist ties? Of course not. Monky knows better.
Tell me about the Democrat plan to sort it all out, monky. They apparently would rather do it here on American soil. Poor bluestaters. Dumbasses.
Primatlad does the 80’s:
It was all a waste! We wasted trillions on defense under Reagan, and didn’t (officially) kill a single member of either red horde waiting to descend on the West to slaughter and pillage! That money should have been spent elsewhere, because everyone knows massive domestic entitlement programs are just what us true conservatives long for!
From a “How to Lie With Statistics” perspective, at least, it is educational. Lump routine defense spending in with supplimentary defense spending and any foreign aid that could be deemed vaguely relevant, and use that total to provide a base for your arguments over the cost of war. Meanwhile forget conveniently the costs associated with the silly liberal isolationist alternative du jour, which we assume can be paid for with happy thoughts.
We did have a ‘peace dividend’ until it crashed blew up our ship, our embassies and crashed into the WTC and Pentagon.
You know what’s kind of funny? Monky’s right about the blue states. In aggregate, they make more money than the red ones. BUT, the median income in the blue states is actually lower than in the red states, though the distribution of income is much more pronounced, the state and local taxes are higher, of course, and the blue states get a larger percentage back of what they pay into the federal coffers than the red states do. On average, they also spend considerably more per capita on government within their states than do red staters.
Thanks for that. I don’t agree with Monky half the time, but I applaud your acknowlegement of his facts, with which I usually agree.
– Well Dan, it only stands to reason. They’re just too busy to have time for any “silly” war on terror.
– Then there’s all that important “work” of bad mouthing the military. The military that lets them go on breathing.
– The classic “shillyfaust” of the priggish elite. Have your cake and eat it too, so you can fancy yourself oh soooooooooo intelligent. Kerry knew, and ment, exactly what he was saying.
– Now if someone could just think of a way to get them to bath…..
…So let me take a flying guess, the blue states are more populous? Didn’t see the source material.
I had always thought this was obvious, but now I have to ask: who are these “terrorists” we are battling? Same as the “insurgents?”
What distinguishes them, if anything? And, yes, I am yanking your chain(s) a bit.
Yep, Cynn, they’re the same thing. It’s just that an infuriating number of people are too wussy to call a terrorist a terrorist.
And “civilians” are terrorists, too, Ror?
For counting purposes, at least?
I had always thought this was obvious, but now I have to ask: who are these “terrorists†we are battling? Same as the “insurgents?â€Â
Near as I can tell:
The ‘insurgents’ are the ones who blow up the uneducated stuck in Iraq–and conservatives.
The ‘terrorists’ are the ones who blow up and kill ‘blue staters’.
And “civilians†are terrorists, too, Ror?
– That one is up for grabs monkeycrap…. what would you call the 12 year old kids they strap explosives on and send them to the store?…
– You’d probably favor “freedom fighters”, but that category is taken for all the other list of terrorist names you try to evade with, so it could be a tough call for you….
That was a serious question. Do you really think they are the same? Or is there room for manipulation?
I answered seriously:
The ‘insurgents’ are the ones who blow up the uneducated stuck in Iraq–and conservatives.
The ‘terrorists’ are the ones who blow up and kill ‘blue staters’.
Fortunately, now that the dems are in charge of the House and soon The Senate, they will all be called ‘terrorists’
There will now be only sweetness and light. No more bad news….
The war on TERROR is as good as won!
Why are labels so fucking important? If someone is shooting at yopu, or tring to blow you up, along with themselves, or as they’ve done many times, trying to use civilians as shields, what difference does it make what you call them. Unless you’re a ankle bitter, looking for demonizing material. then “names” would make sense.
Gray, I don’t grasp your arguement. I suspect you are using clever semantics.
No I’m not!
I’m telling you what will be reported.
As far as what the reality is, let your own bias be your guide.
No more bad news will be reported–now that the dems are in charge, Iraq will be reported to be as big a success as Bosnia!
– Damn….someone must have left one of the “orbs of confusion” running……
Labels are currency, my friend. It’s the difference between “gook” and vietnamese, “beaner” and mexican, “trailer trash” and my relatives.
Our perception of our enemies and even our friends is powerfully defined by epithets. We remember those long after all other relationships are gone. Labels are fucking important.
– Yes….especially when you’re from the cult of the great tolorance, and spend all your waking moments worrying about them, and saying them a lot in clever “covering” posts, that seem to have a point. And when you have an agenda. that too.
The ‘whatchacallems’ are going to lay down their arms and embrace us as brothers now that the leftists are in charge of the House and Senate.
Everybody will love us now–heck, we even have a female Speaker of the House. The Muslims along with leftists everywhere will applaud that.
I look forward to the headlines in Le Monde and The Guardian tomorrow: “A Bright Day for the World!”
OUCH!! I’ve been outed by the coven of repug spooks who claim to specialize in all that! (You know, they’re crazed and all…)
Although on second thought, Big Bingo Hunter could be speaking in tongues.
– Heh…. wondered how long you would take, getting around to your usual religious slur. thought you were going to dissapoint us all for a minute there…..but you never fail to make the hat trick…. race warfare/class warfare/religion bigotry….The cult of the great unwashed has it all.
If David finds this place a cesspool—which is ludicrous on its face—why does he insist on hanging around?
I, for one, certainly wouldn’t lose any sleep if he’d stop using my bandwidth while insulting me and my readers.
– They’re used to cesspools and fevor swamps….. must seem just like home….
Is there some secret channel I’m not tuned into? Why is david an issue right now? Is it RSS? If so, sorry for the irrelevance.
cynn – You have to understand. We Rethugs are feeling a little down tonight, because you probably aren’t going to take the Senate, so we won’t get to see you fuck that up too. And we were so hoping…..
No crowing here. We seriously have to get our shit together. We had damn well better do right by everyone, or we’re no damn good. (I’m not even certain of any race outcome.)
We need to get a damn plan, skip the nasty comuppance shit, get over ourselves, do some research, get smart, and not be afraid to bring smart repubs into the loop. If we are in fact lucky enough to win some power back, we need to act fast and smart.
Will we do that? Maybe on TV.
– Ok…. and so it begins….Allen’s people say the Networks have transposed the raw count and it should be just the opposite that they’re showing…… Here we go……
BECAUSE OF THE STRATEGERY!
OK, I’ve been working late (a romping 14 hour day today) and crashing about, and it’s not only too late, but I’m much too tired to go read through the whole thing. Is there any single point in contention or statement so stupid that I can just focus on that bit, and save myself the trouble of wading through all the stupid?
TW: If you hear anything, let me know.
It’s 5:30am, EST. Not having slept very well (which I never do on election night, regardless of the outcome) I’ve settled in with a strong cup of Sumatran Reserve and the trusty notebook. It’s time to unburden some of my pin wheeling thought fragments and try to make some sense of it all.
It’s clear that the Senate will join the House as Dem controlled. While this doesn’t please me, it doesn’t depress me either. Rather than gnashing teeth (can’t do that, I have to get a crown today) or rending clothes, my imperative is to muse on the message that the voters are trying to send, the real message. I’ve never forgotten that after 2004 Al Franken said that red state voters “must be stupid,†which, ironically, instantly called to account his own lack of brain power. I think that rather than engaging in a collective mea culpa or random poo flinging that some reflection as to the how and why is called for.
Yesterday was so much fun, catapulting digital cows and hurling “farts in your general direction†at the infestation of shrieking lefties that had swarmed over ahem’s post. After reading some of the sanctimonious, arrogant and superior crap that graced our pages, I finally understand the base of John Kerry’s support. There really are sycophants of the french man who either consider themselves elitists or embrace smug elitism as a political manifesto. If I were to believe that these represented the core majority of Dem’s then today would truly be a black veil experience.
The much denigrated exit polls were pretty much on track this time and there was a little nugget in them that bears notice. Amongst voters nationwide, concerns for corruption were trending in the top three issues, along with Iraq and the economy. In a dark, twisted, masochistic way, this is a good thing. I don’t consider it either wise or prudent that voters ignored a strong economy and expressed doubt about something as important as Iraq. The fact that voters were willing, in many cases, to push both of those issues aside and speak loudly on corruption is heartening, even if, personally, the results are not. I have said it before and I will proclaim it again; Republicans have only themselves to blame for this result, most egregiously for abandoning party principles on fiscal restraint and for their stunning inability to gerrymander a cohesive immigration policy. All members of Congress had best be paying attention. Republicans will have to fight the battle against rolling back the Tax Cut and holding the line of fiscal matters. Lobbying reform should be a priority which, coupled with the Porkbusters initiative, could help all citizens gain a measure of confidence in the scruples of our elected officials. Yea, yea, I know and Jeannine Garafalo is going to have Charlton Heston’s love child. A guy can dream big dreams.
On the flip side, the Dem’s have their own challenges. The obvious one is actually elucidating a plan for the next 2 years. I think that the bigger challenges lie both in what they don’t do and in what they have to resolve. We’ve all read that Conyers already has the impeachment papers drawn up. We’ve also read that both Pelosi and Reid have said that they are not interested in getting involved in that kind of feces circus. I’ve no doubt that there will be hearings designed to both illuminate the public and embarrass administration officials. Such is life with a hostile Congress. I’m counting on the collective political acumen of Pelosi/Reid et al to recognize that an extended public flogging of the president would serve no purpose in wartime and would damage the Dem’s in 2008. While that sort of self inflicted wound might serve our collective political purposes I’d rather not experience the complete gridlock while we are trying to prosecute the GWOT.
That having been said, the Dem’s other challenge revolved around those very leftward harpies that scream for the blood of Republicans every day. Having seen for myself how puffed and bloated they are with their own importance I’m convinced that the Kos/Huffpo/DU/Firedog crowd is going to attempt to lay claim to being the lever of success. This is a potential silver bullet for Dem’s as they navigate their way into their newly won position of influence. Again, if political acumen and a hard understanding of voters’ attitudes wins out, the party leadership will clearly understand the need to not develop legislative priorities based upon the digital wailing of the kiddie brigades. My gut feeling is that the Dem’s victories are mainly a combination of some values voters staying home and independents and some Republican voters protesting corruption and the war by moving to Dem candidates. Those voters, I suspect, will have very little tolerance for a witch-hunting Congress that doesn’t aggressively address both corruption and the war plan. Dem’s will have to figure out how to keep the keening blood lust Kossies at bay and that won’t be easy heading into 2008. One way would be to aggressively flagellate them with the pale corpse of Ned Lamonte. Give the job to Lieberman which might go along way to healing some throbbing scars.
These are all just random, caffeine fueled light flickers early in the morning. I suspect that ahem will be jumping on me and BBh, 6Gun and others will have something to say. Chins up and let’s get it on!
Dan, a “david” got tossed out by Austin Bay for rudeness and being O-T, about the same time a “david” showed up here.
Coincidence?
Thanks, Mikey. I’ll go have a look at some of its handiwork.
BJ….no piling on. Now the loud mouths will get their chance to see what it’s been like, listening to all the carping, and ankle biting for the past 6 years. Looking forward to payback time. Every cloud has a silver lining. They wanted it, now they’ve got it. Bon appitite’ to the moonbats….*chuckle* …. file under “be careful what you wish for”
It was in the John Kerry post from last weekend.
A sample of “dave’s” handiwork:
Very charming. I don’t know if “dave” and “david” are the same, but the attitude is much the same. A final one:
A very persuasive speaker with a firm grip on substantive issues, don’t you say?