WTF, I watch Battlestar Galactic, it’s a great show or at least I used to think it was. Last night was the season premeire and they seem to have decided to turn it into a bash America show. When I first started watching it seemed like a good parallel of what was going on in the world. Cylons attacked the humans for no real reasons, just some perceived wrongs, and there was no bargaining with them, it was the islamic convert or die (be killed) except the humans can’t convert to machines. So what the hell happened? In last nights episode they have switched roles with the humans (good guys?) as the muslims and cyclons (bad guys?) as America? The ‘insurgency’ was using and justifying suicide bombings and killing innocent civilians while the cylons were the occupiers that used torture and detention and the human cylon police as traitors. The stupid thing about their justifications for the suicide bombing made no sense whatsoever against the cylons because cylons don’t die! Why would killing machines that can regenerate do any good? I’ll give it an episode or two and see where it is going, but if things don’t change, battlestar will soon be on my no watch list.
posted by sherlock from bakerstreet
And the parts that weren’t parallels stuck out as non-parallels. The mass execution, for example.
Roslin seemed to think that suicide bombing was beyond the pale because of the suicide. Which is stupid. The problem with suicide bombing in real life is that it’s a tactic used to target civilians (also, the bombers may not always be volunteers, though that wasn’t an issue in this case).
A suicide bombing in the cyclon replication facility would be an honorable act. Of course, an air strike would be even better.
Well, the writers may have tried to draw parallels to our situation, but they certainly fell short. While true that Tigh, Anders, and Tyrol discussed bombing civilian targets, they never actually did it.
And you will recall that while the cylons are the ones resorting to torture this season, the humans were torturing cylons all during the last two seasons (not to mention shoving them out airlocks every chance they got).
As with the abortion episode, it appears that the writers want the BSG setting to be similar enough to our own to trigger our beliefs and prejudices while keeping it distinct enough to make their own conclusions.
I knew it, I knew it!
It sounded like there was nonsense of this sort when I read a review of the premier in the Houston Chronicle. Lotta claptrap from Olmos, too. I told my boyfriend that he might be watching it alone from now on.
Note also the smarmy tone of the reviewer, writing in the St. Petersburg Times. I can only think this is the St. Petersburg in Russia, since he says, in essence, “Wow! Did you know there’s a remake of Battlestar Galactic? And it not nearly as goofy as the original! Really!”
I always thought of the Cylons as being Republicans. I mean, they only believe in one god and are vocal about it, they are very anti-abortion pro-family, and most telling, all the really good looking chicks are Cylons.
For some reason my TiVo only recorded one of the last few episodes of last season last night, so I haven’t seen any of the new episodes yet.
So far the only message I’ve ever taken from this new version of BSG is, “War is hell.”
And I seem to remember having read that a Gen. William T. Sherman of the Union army already told us that years ago.
Well, only the “skinjobs” and the sentient attack ships reincarnate. The plain old toaster footsoldiers don’t.
That first original program lost it with me, when they had nuclear wastes blow the mood out of orbit.
Then the later drivel, when they had lights rimming the helmets of fighter pilots that would have killed their light vision, but that showed their tans marvelously, sunk me.
How about not trying to draw a direct parallel? There have been other occupations in history. There have been other insurgencies. The words and the situations used in BSG have resonance, but if you can let down your defensiveness, and not concentrate so hard on who’s side you’re supposed to be on, you may be able to enjoy the drama without feeling like it’s an attack on your political beliefs.
In particular, if you’re looking to Col. Tigh for moral guidance, you’re already frakked.
Except you don’t have to draw with the pointy part of the pencil – you’ve been told.
“Nothing is going the way we thought it would in Iraq,” said Olmos, who has spoken out on antiwar and pro-Latino themes in the past. “And in our world, we make you re-evaluate all the time who the good guys and the bad guys are. (Our heroes) are using suicide bombings to stay alive. So while you’re being entertained like crazy, it also makes you think.”
That leaves you having to use the eraser side of the pencil. You’ve got to pretend you are not seeing what was intended – make up your own story. Plus, you’ve got to pretend the story, as presented, is not warping young minds as you watch.
I had not seen the Olmos quote until I read it via Angie’s link just now. But Olmos was right, it did make me think while watching the show last night. It made me think that the show was trying to manipulate me. I took it personally. Then about an hour and a quarter in I turned it off.
Now, having read Olmos arrogantly proclaim himself a propagandist, I’m going to remove BSG from my TiVo’s Season Pass list.
Anyone know what the twat Olmos actually said rather than “(Our heroes)”? Cuz I’m thinking bad thoughts about what might have been obscured by those parentheses. Twat.
On more than one occasion during the first two seasons, I was afraid that Battlestar was turning into just another liberal slant symbolized, but in every case the show has brought it back around. No “side” of the story is perfect: there are flaws and doubt everywhere. We aren’t supposed to sympathize with Cylons, but we also aren’t suppose to sympathize with the frakkers who raped and tortured one.
Yes, it’s a politically involved show, but I think they try really hard not to slant it or make it an exact parallel. They are just taking issues that we are dealing with today and using them as story elements.
Thought I must say, the season 3 premiere did not ‘wow’ me as much as the previous 2 seasons have. We’ll see. I haven’t crossed it off yet.
Stephen:
You’re going to deny yourself something you love because one of the actors says it’s about something? Now, if the writers had said that, I’d be upset. Speaking of the writers, they’d said things like:
This accords with my perspective on it: contemporary issues are examined, but they’re done so for dramatic effect. Watching our guys decide in favor of suicide bombing has dramatic power. Doesn’t matter where you fall on the political spectrum, the drama’s there. Seems to me people are upset here because they believed it had all the “complexity” of a medieval allegory, when, in fact, it’s legitimately complex.
Also, as for sherlock’s comment about killing Cylons: the episode with “Scar” from last season indicated that while they can be rebirthed, they incur some real “psychological” damage with each addition incarnation. (That’s if the foot soldiers are reborn. I’ve always assumed they are, but I don’t think I’ve much in the way of evidence to back that up.)
O fer cryin’ out loud.
You cannot hear the words “insurgency” or “resistence” and immediately think contemporary Iraq parallel?? Ok, maybe just maybe the lefties have sensitized you to such idiocy but even the ending scene of two hundred people on canvas-covered trucks (wwii anyone?) led to be slaughtered at the edge of an empty quarry should signal to ANYONE that has followed BSG from the beginning that trying to pin specifics on this show is a fool’s errand. That one scene alone can bring up parallels to Nazi occupation…including a Vichy government (Gaius) and the resistance to THAT (talks of revenge on collaborators). BSG has always alluded to the 12 tribes and tossed out Diaspora hints.
my own review here
Well, only the “skinjobs†and the sentient attack ships reincarnate. The plain old toaster footsoldiers don’t
Yep. And there was the subtle hint, when Sharon on Galactica was chosen by Adama to go to Caprica that the footsoldiers aren’t even fully trusted by the humanoid Cylons.
Remember that the hubris of humans in relying on, and oppressing, the Cylons in the first place caused the original uprisings and wars.
Have we grown so used to having everything spoonfed or forcefed to us that we no longer expect film or literature to offer us stuff where WE have to bring our own values and judgments to the table?
Scott Eric Kaufman
Watching our guys decide in favor of suicide bombing has dramatic power.
What was more dramatic was that it was NOT an unanimous acceptance by any means. We see both human and Cylon leadership squabbling and debating among themselves over this.
Of course, if the resistance is blowing up toasters instead of skinjobs, I imagine the toasters are probably easier and cheaper to replace.
Seven of nine…Six of one…So, I take it that the reincarnating skinjobs means the Cylons brought another Resurrection Ship? And no doubt better defended than the first one?
They lost it with me in season 1. One word: frack. This is very bad writing. If you can’t say “fuck,” don’t replace it with a euphemism! Just drop all hint of the epithet and stop calling attention to the feeble attempt at pushing the envelope.
Brett
“Frack” is a leftover from the original BSG of the 70’s
And even that “euphemism” caused a lot of controversy 30 odd years ago (yeah, I’m that old)
I actually like that they’ve retained some of the old show, while fulfilling its promises and not devolving into a kind of horse opera with shiny objects.
I thought these episodes had some odd, uncharacteristic bits of sloppy/lazy writing, even setting aside the strained attempts at allegory where the parallels don’t line up right.
For instance:
– They’re taking the prisoners off to the countryside to shoot them? But… when the Cylons were debating this, the whole point seemed to be that they needed *public* executions!
– I was a little disappointed that the “mole” plots seem to have no twists to them. Gaeta’s secretly helping the resistance, and Mrs. Tigh is secretly working against it. And what you see is what you get, apparently. I thought there’d at least be a twist in one of those. Like Gaeta is actually just feeding the resistance what the Cylons want them to see, or (was half-expecting this, since Gaeta’s such an obvious “good guy”) that Baltar himself was helping the good guys. Or that Colonel Tigh knew *exactly* what his wife was up to. But no twists here.
Uh Walt, exploding nuclear waste and moons swinging yonder out of orbit is Space: 1999, not Galactica…
tw: are95. Are not!
Dammit, now I’m feeling cranky, not just tendentious and nitpicky.
I’m a longtime fan and have all the DVD’s for that matter. In fact, one’s playing in the background while I type (the season two ender). Politics aside, I have one thing to say about season three’s opener last night.
DULL.
Dragged on, too much talking, politics, you name it. Everything except some real plotmoving action. Arrrggggghhhh!
I guess none of you recognized the music.
This episode was just awful. Moore is using the old trick of reversing fortunes.
We sympathize with the humans so he puts them in the position of the insurgents and makes the Cylons the aggressors. What would you do in that situation? Would you fight the Cylons unmercifully? Would you be willing to indiscriminately kill collaborators? Would collateral damage be worth the advantage gained in proving your resolve?
We’re being asked to sympathize with a position we abhor.
It’s tasteless and the analogy doesn’t hold under scrutiny.
The least they could do is be subtle instead of smashing my balls with a bust of Dick Cheney.
I’ll continue to watch for this whole season but now I’m coming at it with the attitude of “FUCK THIS SHOW” rather than “FUCK, THIS SHOW ROCKS!”
2¢
It’s television. The people in the box very tiny compaered to us. It’s impossible to take anything they say seriously.
Well, though I haven’t seen it, I’ve read some about it, and I suspect the problem is that so much time has passed since Season 2’s end, they thought they needed to establish what’s happened in the meantime. Granted, the rule is “show, don’t tell”…
I would hope future eps will be less talky.
Hey Freecat, didn’t you already spend that 2¢ over at imao?
My only problem with the situation thus far is that we have absolutely no rationale for why the Cylons returned and simultaneously began military occupation and imprisonment of the humans.
If the intent of the Cylons was, as Caprica 6 and Sleeper Sharon insisted, to forge a new, peaceful relationship with humans, then the whole situation we are presented with at the end of Season 2, with the Cylons arriving with an armada of battleships and legions of killbots, makes no sense at all. Doing so is just such an obvious and epically stupid blunder that it’s not credible for the Cylons to be acting that way. That is to say, even if the writers weren’t intending to turn the whole show into a thinly veiled morality play, it’s nevertheless plain bad writing.
first of all, you piggybacked on the second part
of my post; that began with the amorality of the
Dexter series. If people had any historical memory; the allusions would clearly be to Vichy
France; with Bsltar, being the GQ version of Petain, the mass executions, the shifty French
bureacrats like Bosquet and Pellepoix, and their
SS liason; Alois Brunner, the current? guest of
Damascus’s Meridian hotel, and the trainer of their secret police. But no, they had to use
the Cylon Political Authority, suggest that the
human capos are the same as the murdered Iraqi
police and military cadets, I think I’ll go back
to watching Dr. Who, which is at least a little
more subtle about it’s biases
Per super-sleuth wRitErsbLock:
FULL DISCLOSURE: cross posted at IMAO
Cleansing!
Douche.
Man, am I the only person here that saw from the get-go what you’re all so shocked about now? BSG has been (very boring) drivel since the word “go.”
If y’all are interested in a sci-fi series where you start to sympathize for the bad guys, and you aren’t afraid to experiment a little, I recommend an anime called “Mobile Suit: Gundam” and the sequel “Zeta Gundam.” The original series is good, though there are some definitively “filler” episodes, and it is from 1979, so don’t expect the best animation you ever saw.
Old sci-fi is the best sci-fi.
I am normally suspicious of the political motives in film, seeing the pervasive liberal indoctrination of people in the industry. However, I had begun getting into this series, having bought all the DVDs of the previous seasons. This two-part anti-American rant side swiped my wife and I curse the producers for that. i suppose they think they are clever and, oh so much more intelligent for inserting this dirty little political analogy. Well, the my DVDs of all the previous seasons of the show now reside in the garbage bin. I intend to also work hard to see this trashy liberal propaganda series cancelled. if they have a right to “politicize” we have a right to fight back.