From Reuters:
A North Korean missile launched on Wednesday was aimed at an area of the ocean close to Hawaii, a Japanese newspaper reported on Friday.
Experts estimated the Taepodong-2 ballistic missile to have a range of up to 6,000 km, putting Alaska within its reach. Wednesday’s launch apparently failed shortly after take-off and the missile landed in the sea between the Korean peninsula and Japan, a few hundred kilometres from the launch pad.
But data from U.S. and Japanese Aegis radar-equipped destroyers and surveillance aircraft on the missile’s angle of take-off and altitude indicated that it was heading for waters near Hawaii, the Sankei Shimbun reported, citing multiple sources in the United States and Japan.
North Korea may have targeted Hawaii to show the United States that it was capable of landing a missile there, or because it is home to the headquarters of the U.S. Pacific fleet, the paper said.
An alternative explanation might be that a missile could accidentally hit land if fired towards Alaska, the report said.
Oh well, no biggie, eh, Jimmy? Just so long as you keep building those cheap houses for a select few unfortunates, Americans will likely forgive you your history of idiotic international “initiatives.”
Right up until tourists surfing Oahu’s North Shore are turned into irradiated plankton, that is. At which point, I believe you will have officially worn out your welcome as a former statesman.
Luckily, Castro or the PLO will take you in, no questions asked.
(h/t Dave Price)
At what point do we throw in the towel and say to hell with getting international support and go this one alone? It’s clear that Russia and China are going to rebuff us, not because they’re anti-U.S. but because they have their own interests to contend with (as does S. Korea).
I’ll leave it to other, smarter commenters to offer an answer, but I have less faith in N. Korea than I do with Iran. Thoughts?
I think the NorKs may have been trying to pioneer the use of the world’s first operational cyborg guidance system, building on research that shows a pigeon brain can fly an airplane in simulation.
Trouble is, the Norks are using homing pigeons from Pyongyang. So, it isn’t that the missile test failed so much as, they had to use the auto-destruct when they noticed that the missile was turning around.
We need to sabotage those auto-destruct thingies, is my guess.
I gotta admit, the prior news on the norks left me unmoved. This kinda changes things. State of the art brinksmanship?
I figure that’s more due to the afterbody of the missile having the writing on it saying “Made in China”, and the targeting system having graffiti on it saying “Lenin WAS God”.
Showdown : Why China Wants War with the United States
Showdown : Why China Wants War with the United States
404
TW I don’t know what happened.
As I commented over at Ace’s:
Look, no one knows where the thing was aimed. You can predict where a missle will impact, but only if you know 3 things:
The course
The missles trajectory (or angle it is traveling through the air)
The missles speed- so you know how high it will go
You don’t know the missle’s speed until the final stage burns out, because it is accelerating right up till that time.
After 40 seconds, they don’t know if it was aimed at Japan, Hawaii, or that crappy Dodge Neon I’ve got in the driveway up on blocks.
Dont’ sweat it. Someone is pushing their own agenda or doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Going it alone is ineffective as long as South Korea and China prop up the government and give it food, money, etc… which gives them more time.
It would be about as effective as the Iraq embargo that so many countries ignored.
If dem gooks attack Hawaii, I say we should nuke ‘em all! Remember Hiroshima, you slanty-eyed mofos!
We will MICROWAVE you mofos if you look at us the wrong way!
Bring it on, gooks! Bring it ephing on!
Bomb, bomb, bomb,
Bomb, bomb, Pyong…
Please don’t take this the wrong way….but if everyone who lurked in the comments section of this blog drank the kool-aid RIGHT NOW…..the country and the world would be better places.
Just my two sense.
From the interview Stephen M tried to link. (Let’s see if I can get it to work)
This is something that I have been considering, is China using the NorKs as a bargaining chip to try to get Taiwan? If we assume China continues on the path to a free market economy and eventually free society, would Taiwan be a fair trade for a unified Korea?
We’re pragmatists, Deb. I think if push came to shove, we’d rather just shoot you, then watch a “700 Club” marathon and enjoy some honeybaked ham.
Jeff,
I thought Joooos didn’t eat Honeybaked ham?
And Deb, I have enough sense to know it’s my two cents.
Thanx for replying, Jeff. I’d rather shoot you too – as I said elsewhere, if I woke up tomorrow and learned that someone else had shot you and your “tyke” it wouldn’t slow me down one iota. You aren’t “human” to me. I get the feeling the feeling’s mutual.
I thought it would be fun, seeing as you’ve allowed all kinds of gross conversation about me and my body parts, to talk about your “tyke” some. Is it a girl? A boy? How old? I really want to devote some verbal attention to your tyke, the way your buddies have devoted verbal attention to me. I want to know what types of orifices your “tyke” has, how big they are, etc. before I start my shpiel.
So if you could just tell me the AGE and SEX of your “tyke,” I’d be stoked!
Thanx!
Couldn’t China be playing the long game here? Until 1910 or so they saw the Korean peninsula as a sort of vassal state – could Beijing be playing Kim’s enabler, hoping to speed up the collapse of North Korea, in turn triggering a flood of refugees across the 39th Parallel and engendering the kind of chaos where they would be well-placed to step in and assume control?
Show us your tits! For beads!
He’s a two year old boy. Do you really want to say things about a two year old boy? In a public forum?
You really should limit your attentions to me.
Incidentally, I haven’t “allowed” anyone’s comments about you anymore than I’ve “allowed” your comments about me or my readers. I allow comments on my site. I don’t control the commenters, as your postings should make clear.
Once again, in case she missed it-
I’m sure you can get a job as a dog-walker.
And geez, that should have been 38th Parallel, not 39th. Sorry.
And having seen the statement from Deb after I made my first post, I can only just shake my head in bewilderment and disgust.
Jeff, in all seriousness, I think this borders on cyberstalking.
Ooh. Two year old boy. Sounds hot. You live in Colorado, I see. Hope no one Jon-Benets your baby.
Are you still married to the woman you humped to produce the toddler?
You know, I think I’d rather nuke Deb than NK.I mean, there are innocent people in NK. Deb here is telling us she(?) would relish the death of a two year old child. Bet that will impress the tenure committee.
Well, after that 10:30 post, I’d be afraid she want to molest my dogs.
So that’s right out.
tw: how, as in how could you be so fucking repulsive?
Deb, time to get a shot of seraquil.
Seriously.
TW: The good doctor is not well.
Jeff, I’d check the IP addy from those postings.
Just to be sure it’s not a sock puppet.
If it isn’t, all bets are off. I got your 6.
N.O., I’m sure your fears are not entirely unfounded.
TW: line. Deb has definitely crossed it.
Or as Freud once said, “Sometimes a cigar is a big fucking sack of pyschosis and snakes.”
Yup. No longer funny. A woman in definite need of severe help, probably of the heavy medication type. What a train wreck.
Jorg, my guess is that she’s bipolar in the midst of a manic episode.
Still no excuse.
I’ll get an honorary psych PhD out of this yet.
Frisch? She’s an adjunct instructor who’ll be working in Wal-Mart within the month.
Never should have brought my kid into this, Deb. Big mistake.
That was an extremely dangerous move on their parts. If the missle had managed to hit Hawaii, even by accident, we’d be at war this moment.
South Korea is in the right position to help, but it isn’t motivated to help because they fear internal destabilzation if North Korea falls. So I guess we’re all going to stand around and pray for a miracle. I guess that’s our policy in the Pacific: get down on your knees and pray.
You first.
I think I see where you are going here JG, but damn.
TW: as in hear the footsteps.
Wow.
It was the cowbell reference! I knew it!
Well, if you don’t write them, Jeff, I will.
TW: Back, as in we got yours
Jeff: Never should have brought my kid into this, Deb. Big mistake.
Oooh. I am one scared troll, Jeffy boy. You tolerated your pissants making disgusting comments about my body but now that I’ve dragged your pathetic progeny into the picture, your panties are in a knot. Just as I suspected.
Now you are threatening my livelihood, making veiled threats about Wal-Mart.
I reiterate: If some nutcase kidnapped your child tomorrow and did to her what was done to your fellow Coloradan, Jon-Benet Ramsey, I wouldn’t give a damn.
I feel bad about all the Iraqis and American soldiers who have died for a lie. I wouldn’t cry a single tear if your offspring were offed tomorrow.
This infuriates you and makes you want to retaliate by threatening my livelihood.
I say, Jeffy boy, bring it on. Show us all what your are made of, you pathetic, failed scholar, writer, intellectual. This is your intellectual claim to fame – this fourth rate den of blathering.
Protein Wisdom=Lipid Stupidity.
Got neurons, you stupid mofo?
Jerrold Post, that guy who’s such a pioneer in the field of political psychology, profiled Kim (sorry, don’t have the link) and pronounced him a “malignant narcissist.” If we assume that to be accurate, it’s difficult to see him taking any action that would endanger his status or standing (little as it is) in the international community. I just can’t see what Kim Jong Il feels that he has to gain from this exercise, and even less how Beijing benefits from letting him run loose, unless it’s either a ploy to get their hands on Taiwan, as B. Moe suggested, or a desire to re-assert control over the Korean peninsula.
I’m threatening your livelihood because you are an unstable fuck that shouldn’t be around other humans, Debbie.
And it ain’t a threat. You’re done. Bank on it.
Deb, you’re acting disgusting. You have to stop drinking or get back on your meds or whatever is necessary. Call your therapist tonight. You’re ill and shouldn’t be posting in a public forum.
Apparently, he’s got more than you do.
You’ll make a fine greeter.
Sorry, I was trying to bring the thread back on-topic, and assumed Deb would have the decency to simply shut up after Jeff gave her a clear warning. I didn’t see that she had posted something even more obscene and threatening in the interval. More the fool me for not checking first.
It’s 9:03 where I am (Eugene, OR) and I predicted you would ban me by 9:00.
My understanding is that you haven’t banned me, but you are threatening my livelihood. That is, Jeffy boy, you have threatened to “tell on me” to someone that you perceive to be “my boss.” That’s actually more sissified than banning, if you think about it.
So, Jeffy boy, could you clarify what you have done or intend to do to try to derail my livelihood and send me off to work at Wal-Mart? Could you come out of the closet and say what you have done or intend to do, you pathetic little tattle-tale, neutered, rightwing a-hole?
Give your pathetic progeny (I sure hope that mofo got good genes from his mama!) a big fat tongue-filled kiss from me! LOTS AND LOTS OF SALIVA from Auntie MOONBAT, if you don’t mind!
Somehow, Jeffy boy, I think you get off on the possibility of Frenching your pathetic progeny, even if it is a boy. You seem like a VERY, VERY sick mofo to me, bro.
Certainly the 12-year-old isn’t claiming RIGHTEOUS FURY ™ now, is she? Well, I guess she wants to rewrite the narrative so that she is the victim here. Good for her. Proves that she has an IQ in at least the 90s.
It is kinda cute though, in a sort of rabid chiuahuahua… uh… chiwahah… hah… rabid little dog kinda way.
But enough about the mewlings of the child…
I don’t know enough about the geopolitical interests in the NK and SK areas. I was hoping someone like Ric Locke or our esteemed host would carry on a discussion that would continue to illuminate what everyone in that area wants and hopefully I could learn something…
My whole family got a laugh out of that one, Pablo.
Pot, meet kettle.
Kettle, meet Unemployment Office.
TW: This is better than great.
I think the peninsula is beyond their grasp, the South has tasted freedom for too long, I can’t see it happening. I think China is too far down the slippery slope to a relatively free market and free country, to try to turn back down would be devastating economically. International trade seems to be an addiction none can kick. Rather than a nasty ass fight against a tough little opponent in South Korea, why not let South Korea have Kim in return for us looking the other way regarding Taiwan. It is a win for everybody but the Taiwanese, and hell some of them would like to go back.
Marcus:
Pot, meet kettle.
Kettle, meet Unemployment Office.
TW: This is better than great.
Sounds interesting. What are you talking about, Marcus?
Moe – you’ve got a point there re the desire of some Taiwanese to re-unite with the PROC. Perhaps they could try (with the able assistance of the US) to negotiate the same sort of special “Semi-Autonomous Zone” status that Hong Kong got? And yeah, I know, that isn’t necessarily working out so well for them, but it might be the best they could hope for from Beijing. Hu Jintao is the real wild card in this – I still can’t tell how much of a Party hardliner he might be, and everything I’ve read suggests that he can be a pragmatist when it suits him.
Just . . . wow.
I don’t think she’s acting.
Ooooo!! The banshee turns her rabid attention away from our intrepid host to little ol’ me!
Master Tang,
No idea what you are getting at in your wordy blather. What’s yer point?
I think this place is a cesspool of morons, imbeciles and a-holes. You are the only thing that makes me question this assessment (and maybe Danny boy). Is there ANY reason for me to question my assessment that this place is a cesspool full of stupid a-holes?
Thanx, mister chinx!
Master Tang,
Since it is unlikely that we will be able to have Kim undergo a battery of psychological tests to get an actual diagnosis, how can his unknown mental state affect our reaction to him? Whether he’s really nuts or just acting nuts doesn’t make a difference in the end as far as I can see.
China remains the lever on NK – they can cut off his fuel or reduce the amount furnished as they wish. Perhaps it’s time to take a look at their “most favored nation” status. There is nothing they furnish that India cannot.
Deb, repeat 3x while clicking your heels together:
“Haldol is my friend.”
TW: problems.
No kidding.
This has got to be a put-on. No one is that stupid!
TW: The lights are on, but no one’s home!
You are a sad, bitter piece of fruit, SWP.
Get some help. Perhaps a tenured member of the faculty at the University of Oregon could help you with a referral.
She has to try and rewrite the narrative, since she is such a complete failure that she couldn’t even get herself banned as she bragged she could—despite the increasingly hysterical and vile posts.
For a “Decision Scientist”, she doesn’t make very good decisions.
Please do not ban her Jeff…..
Let’s just let her dangle/hang for awhile…..
oooh,stoo. I feel so bad when I read how little u think of me.
where’s da man! i ain’t got all night!
jeffy boy, it looks to me like it is 9 twenty two and i ain’t banned yet!
got cajones, hombre?
One of these spews it’s gonna occur to our deranged friend that perhaps that IP anonymizer was a good idea after all…
I see your point, Rick – the only reason I give any credence to Post is that his profile of Saddam seemed bang-on, and it’s hard to dispute the notion that Kim is some type of narcissistic personality. It’s more a question of trying to gauge what he thinks he gains from his recent activities, since a narcissist would only act in self-interest, yet it’s difficult to see what self-interest is being served here.
Several of you have some extensive experience with matters Korean, and could likely put this in a better perspective than I.
Deb,
When Jeff eventually does get around to banning you, please tell all your Birkenstock sistren that it took vile statements about a two-year-old kid to accomplish it.
That should make you and the sistren proud. Very proud.
I think BMoe, Tang, Rick and OHNOES deserve a round of applause for staying on-topic in the midst of all this moonbat ugliness.
Wishbone:
She will be proud. It’s not the reason for her banning that’s important. No, only being banned matters. That way, she’s been wronged, not the child she’s making sick comments about. After all, he’s not human to her.
Deb, I’m serious. You sound unhinged. This has gone beyond the point of customary blog-comment shennanigans and is in the land of ugly. If anything, you are threatening your own livelihood with every word you write. You really need help. I write this in all sincerity. Stop now.
On topic:
Anyone else get the feeling that Kim Jon-Il is not calling the shots anymore? From the news accounts I’ve read, his diplomats in many cases did not know the tests were coming either.
The North Korean military seems to be calling the shots completely. Not good.
If you knew what a freak magnet I was in real life you would understand my aversion to poking that thing with a stick. I don’t need to go looking for trouble, dude.
Eugene, OR? Not according to Whois.
TW: whois stalking whom?
Wow, talk about stuck on stupid.
At least we know who was the one who started the whole thing with Thersites. Sort of fits the MO.
I thought you might have learned from your experience stalking prof Bainbridge. Well, he was way too nice.
Deb, deb, deb. baaad mistake, really bad one. I can’t believe how far you went out to be in that sort of a problem.
I can’t believe you would do something so stupid and so actionable. Well, a burned bridge too far this time.
Anyway, I forwarded to thread to the FBI Internet crime hotline and to The oregon state police.
Apparently Oregon has some statues that you might have to answer to
ORS 163.684 Encouraging Child Sex Abuse I;
ORS 163.686 Encouraging Child Sex Abuse II;
Hey Deb, maybe it doesn’t apply, but not my problem is it?
Enjoy your visit with humorless government employees.
I feel ya, B, I feel ya.
Wishbone – seems like the BBC (or was it the Guardian?) alleged something like that a few months back. Wasn’t there talk of severe in-fighting within Kim’s inner circle as well? I even seem to remember one account of an alleged shoot-out between two of Kim’s relatives and their respective factions.
Is this perhaps about warding the rest of the world away while matters are resolved in Pyongyang? Certainly, if Beijing knew that (and who’s better placed to know than them?) then that might explain some of the “enabling” they’ve been doing.
I think Kim is still in charge, and from where he sits, he thinks he did the right thing to achieve his short term goals. Remember, the last time he shot a long range missle, the US started bilateral negotiations, gave him food aid, fuel oil and 2 nuclear reactors. Hell, I’d shoot a couple of shots every year or two.
Problem is, Capt. Joe, her Whois data shows her in a state that isn’t Oregon.
TW: what state stays on Standard Time when the rest of the country goes to Daylight Savings Time
Vinnie: Arizona.
Bingo!
It looks like it’s time to start a new tradition: ignore the loonie. It seems to have worked with the Retarded Telephone Pole, so let’s try it out.
Master Tang,
I don’t think anyone knows what Kim wants or whether he even knows what he wants. If he’s a true malignant narcissist then there are some North Korean families who don’t have rice winners today. Post’s analysis of Hussein is interesting and convinceing but having (he thought) purchased the French, Germans and Russians indicate that he had a capability for reaching for support that was not delusional at all. He overestimated their actual value – much as they do with themselves.
If China will not put additional pressure on Kim (or if he doesn’t respond to the pressure) then what is wrong with the status quo? He pounds the table with his chubby little fist and we stare at him blankly while covering our mouths as we yawn. He’s already running the Albania of eastern Asia.
TW mean – It’s mean to stare at roadkill.
dingdingding right answer, Marcus!
And I’ll apologize right now for being so OT the post, but Deb’s comments about Jeff’s kid really pissed me right the fuck off.
It seems like China thinks it’s in its best interest to tie us up by making us handle the problem without their assistance. I suspect if they wanted Kim to shut up today, he would shut up today. Maybe it’s all sock-puppetry and China is really in control behind the scenes.
tw: power. Damn! This thing is good.
Capt. Joe: Anyway, I forwarded to thread to the FBI Internet crime hotline and to The oregon state police.
Apparently Oregon has some statues that you might have to answer to
ORS 163.684 Encouraging Child Sex Abuse I;
ORS 163.686 Encouraging Child Sex Abuse II;
Hey Deb, maybe it doesn’t apply, but not my problem is it?
Enjoy your visit with humorless government employees.
—-
Oooh, Joe. You are very tough with people you think might inflict physical harm on others. I gotta say, I admire the fucking HELL out of that man, though I ain’t too thrilled with this particular instantiation of your proclivities.
I guess I should be prepared for a visit from the FBI and/or the Oregon police with respect for my proclivities regarding:
ORS 163.684 Encouraging Child Sex Abuse I;
ORS 163.686 Encouraging Child Sex Abuse II;
I am SHAKING, I tell you, SHAKING!!! in my boots at the prosect at an FBI and/or state police trooper tromping down my driveway to see if I was a threat to the progeny of the pissant name of Jeff “pissant” Goldstein of the pathetic, neutered, sissified, state of Colorado. I don’t give a rat’s ass whether the pissant’s progeny live or die, but I have no intention of snuffing the mofo’s chillen myself.
My point was just that the rapist/murderer/ lingo that Jeffy boy allowed among his pathetic little commenters was EQUIVALENT to the threat I made against the pissant’s progeny.
Get it?
Doubt it.
Fine with me.
Vinnie—read a few posts on her blog.
She works in Arizona. Got fired in Oregon. Has to commute back and forth every few months, because her home is still in OR.
I infer that the whois data was generated while she was still working.
Yeah Rick,
But North Korea doesn’t have a cool ex-monarch named “Zog.”
I prefer to think of the DPRK as the Zimbabwe of Asia, but that ruins referring to Zibabwe as the North Korea of Africa. Chicken and egg, you know?
Ooh, Phil, you da man! You do empirical research!
You guys are just so on top of things, so together, that I must be CRAZY to think I could win a pissing battle against Jeffy boy and Y’all!
i.m. crazee
Well-said, Rick. I have this nagging feeling if we knew the whole story behind that train explosion that came so near to accounting for Kim a while back, we’d have a real Road-of-Damascus moment here regarding the calculus of Beijing and Pyongyang in this matter.
I guess this might even embarass the SK government to reconsider their lick-spittle policy of looking the other way, sending danegeld up north and generally closing their eyes and telling themselves everything is OK. Then again, maybe not. Bah.
Back on the subject of North Korea, the fact is that there is only 1 external force that has any influence on the Norks – China.
In case of a war, the Norks could level Seoul, with it’s 10 million people. So we can’t threaten them, and neither can South Korea (even if they wanted to, which, temperamentally, they don’t). Japan doesn’t have the military power. Sanctions won’t work, because the Norks are already isolated. As for the UN, well, forget I mentioned it.
If China wants Kim to fall, he will. If not, he won’t. The only other possibility is internal problems, which would probably replace Kim with someone just as bad.
ahem
Another way of looking at it involves imagining that North Korea is off the table. What else do we need help with from China? If they solve the problem they get a pat on the head but are left with no bargaining chips. That’s why the progress being made with India has a greater importance than is generally recognized.
Shift some consumer goods production to the Indians and China is going to get a bit queasy. That’s also why it would probably be wise to revisit China’s MFN status. Soft power is like hard power in the sense that if it is never used its value diminishes.
Master Tang,
That train explosion is very interesting – as is this misfire. The Norks just can’t buy any luck.
What are the odds, I wonder, of Japan being motivated to develop a nuclear capability all of a sudden? Plus, there were all those “hot pads” there during the Cold War, so I’m given to understand.
I just worry that all the parties outside North Korea think that events there can be managed. The place is kooky even by commie standards.
It’s like Taleb’s “black swan” analysis of 9/11–we might not even be in the same book much less the same page of what to expect.
Rick: That makes sense. Plus, because of the past British influence and the fact the Indians speak English, we would potentially have a much stronger relationship with India.
Is this a given? Or is it a possibility the North’s Army would fold like Saddam’s at the first sign of adversity? How much of an advantage does American training and equipment give to the South’s Army? Everybody talks about how many troops Kim has suited up, but how many of them can play when the whistle blows?
India is a relatively stable democracy – that doesn’t hurt either.
B Moe,
The problem is that the north has artillery already in range of Seoul and can pretty much decapitate the SK govt without even crossing the line. The NK’s would swiftly end up on the defensive, but the terrain would be much more suitable than what you saw in Iraq.
B Moe,
I forget the number, 10,000 or 20,000 DPRK artillery tubes of all types within distance of Seoul; I defer on the exact number to my more learned colleagues. That’s a hell of a volley. The counterstrike would be equally devastating, but the damage would be done.
As I said above, my worry is that because things in the North are almost always structured in a 2+2 = 5 manner, anything is possible and we’re counting on rationality.
Given how friendly Iran and NK have gotten, I’m sure this was a sortie of some sort to accomplish a few things
— just general jackassery
— returning much-needed attention
— hopes of kicking of another round of concessions and resource grabs (i.e., extortion)
— a live test of machinery and the reactions to it
All of which the mullahs are watching very carefully.
Steve,
I’m sorry, but were you talking about the NorKs or Deb?
Lemme’ see if I got this straight…
The little retard can’t drive his Dong any farther than the Sea of Japan, and we’re ‘sposed to believe he aced 11 holes?…Really?
How many Mulligans does he get?
Heh. Lopingdong-2.
I find ignoring trolls works best no matter what the topic. Have we really devolved to threatening each other and each others kin and jobs. That’s like saying “I’m gonna tell my mommy!”
I know Im a bit late coming into all this… but – um – this Deb bitch is one sick effin puppy. And THAT is an insult to all puppies everywhere… sorry doggies….