Gun shopping, you say? Sure, why the hell not. Weather’s nice.
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Recent Comments
- In The Mailbox: 02.28.23 (Afternoon Edition) : The Other McCain on Hey, longtime pw readers…
- In The Mailbox: 12.23.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll truly IS a sad, embittered psychopath
- Danger on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
- Danger on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
- In The Mailbox: 07.18.22 : The Other McCain on Patrick J. Carroll might be a psychopath
Is that in your Wish List, Jeff?
I’m a troll watcher,
I’m a troll watcher,
Watching trolls stroll by,
My, my, my . . .
I’m partial to my Ruger P-89.
Glad PW seems to be back up.
I recommend a 12 gauge shotgun for home defense. Hard to miss with it.
Glad you’re back!
What– didja have to turn the lights out as you left?
Welcome back, Jeff! Any news to relate, re: She-Who-Must-Be-Straitjacketed-and-Sedated…?
TW: many. As in “____ e-mails sent out to various interested parties, this morning.”
The site’s been up and down all day – coincidence, or DDOSed by Deb and friends?
And threatening Satchel is one thing, but if she starts spewing her filth about the armadillo, well, it won’t be pretty.
The rules of gun shopping are actually quite simple:
1. Don’t buy pretty… buy effective.
2. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for.
3. Buy the biggest caliber you can reliably control.
4. Don’t go complicated, go simple. Simple is good… simple is your friend.
5. You must aim with ANY weapon.
6. Get as much professional training as you can get your hands on.
7. Reread rule number six. Remember that you are the weapon… the gun is merely a tool.
Other commenters will undoubtedly have their own caveats to add.
TW: sight “Picture.” Well, we’ll leave the sight picture discussion for the thread on technique.
I prefer something simple, semi-automatic myself. Take it down to the range and get comfy with it.
i wuv my ruger and my browning, but i have always craved a mossberger 12 gauge.
i will be very jealous if you get one.
the uber-cool thing about a shotgun (aside from the crazydelicious sound it makes chambering a round) is that we could go hunting together for spruce grouse or pheasants.
Glocks are simple and very trouble-free.
Pull trigger, gun fires. No hammer or single-action dance to worry about. I bought mine because that’s what the cops carry. I figured they probably knew more about it than me. Seems to have been a good choice. I’d recommend .40SW or .45 caliber.
For a small gun you can carry in your pocket, the Kel-Tec P-32 and P-38T could be good choices.
Don’t forget, you have lots of ammo choices.
– FMJ (full metal jacket): penetrates more, transfers less energy to target. Cheaper, best for target practice at the range.
– Hollowpoint: transfers much more energy, lots of stopping power, better for concealed-carry.
As for home protection, both of these are capable of penetrating walls, and you should avoid putting rounds into rooms other than the one in which you are shooting. For home use, I recommend frangiable rounds, which essentially disintegrate when they hit the target. They transfer nearly 100% of their energy to the target for superior stopping power, yet they will not penetrate sheetrock walls (certainly much less than the other types) and eliminate ricochet hazards too. They are much more expensive, but you really only need to buy one magazine’s worth and just keep it in the weapon only when you are at home. They make really messy wounds too, almost like a shotgun once past the point of entry, which is a plus.
TW: meeting: say hello to my little friend.
For ease of use in home defense, a tactical (short barrel, pistol grip) 12-gauge pump shotgun is a great choice. It is short enough to still be easy to manipulate around doors and hallways, and the greater spread from the short barrel means that your aim can be a little off and the shot is still effective (important, because in a potential situation in which you have to use the weapon, your adrenaline will probably affect your aim unless you have specific training for this). Avoid using 00-Buck shells, they penetrate walls too much. Game loads have much less wall penetration and will still put an intruder on the ground.
Shotguns also make a very menacing sound when you rack a shell into the chamber, which might discourage an intruder, but that isn’t something to count on.
Don’t forget the little woman, if she’s game. It’s sort of romantic to go shooting wth your husband, I can testify.
Not true. With a shotgun you just POINT. I have a “home defense weapon set up for the woman of the house, a 20 gauge shotgun loaded with rock salt, all she as to do is point in the general direction of the intruder and…guaranteed pain with no gult complex about taking a life. Me…I have a Ruger .44 revolver..I have no such worries about the lowlife that would enter my home.
The Glock 19, the PERFECT pistol for almost every occasion.
Welcome back, by the way.
Heh.
Do what I did. Start collecting firearms, and become a really serious “dog” person.
My children are way beyond needing my ‘protection’, as a rule, but if anyone threatened my grandchildren in that manner, I might well go on a little expedition and do some “urban hunting”.
Probably not…..but the chance exists always. And if they want you, you really need to be able to say “Come get Some.”
Big, territorial dogs. And firearms. Or even small and loud territorial dogs. Just don’t forget the firearms. I leave your choice of model and caliber to your own discretion, unless you ask for advice. I’ve got plenty, but personal weapons are like spouses. It’s all a matter of taste. I don’t criticise yours, and you don’t criticize mine. As long as you have one, or several, that is.
Lord bless, and stay safe, Sir!
Don’t forget the little woman, if she’s game.
No one remembers Red Skelton any more.
Glocks blow, and nothing says ‘LOVE!’ like a .45. Buy a damn Peacemaker. Even if you miss, you set them on fire. And Liberals are usually COVERED in some sort of oil. Though trust me, Astroglide doesn’t burn worth crap.
I find a T-Ball bat to be adequate for most simpletons. It is not too big of a leap from ‘retarded’ to ‘coma’. And then you can stuff GI Joes and stuff up their butt to freak out the X-Ray techs.
Shotguns are extremely effective. As somebody who often sees the immediate terminal ballistic effects of them, shotguns are probably the most lethal short-range weapon the average civilian can own. I must, however, address the following point.
With a shotgun you just POINT
Negative. You should aim with ANY standard small arm. Even a shotgun is not an area-of-effect weapon (unless you’re referring to the deafening blast it creates inside a structure… your ears will ring for days).
Here’s the rule of thumb with a standard buckshot load: a standard 18” barrel shotgun with an improved cylinder choke will spread slightly more than one inch for every yard of range. Even in a long hallway in a large home, you’re unlikely to be more than 15-30 feet from an intruder. Also consider that most bedrooms are 12-15 feet across, giving your shotgun a spread of five inches max across a standard room.
At that range, a shotgun is absolutely devastating… but you must hit your target.
Don’t get in the habit of not aiming… there’s a reason why even “tactical” and pistol-grip shotguns have sights.
Jeff, you know you can drop by and borrow something whenever you want.
Low bore axis, fast trigger reset, no unnecessary “safeties” to hinder operation, and good reliability are some of what makes Glocks popular. Calibers to suit any taste as well, but it always boils down to what you want to do with the firearm.
I had a Ruger GP-100 I really liked once. Nothing more idiot proof than a revolver, and you can shoot .38’s or .357’s through it as floats your boat.
This is my choice, for home and field.
Let me add to the chorus recommending a shotgun. A nice, simple pump-action doesn’t require much training, is simple to use even in the dark, and has an ‘intimidation’ capability that few guns can match.
Some will scoff at intimidation and worry only about stopping power, but trust me: You want to do everything in your power to avoid firing at anyone. Even if it’s a totally legal shoot, you still have to live with yourself afterwards. Take a good concealed-carry class if they’re offered in your state. They usually do a great job of explaining when and where you can use deadly force.
And welcome back, we missed ya. If for whatever reason it’s necessary, let us know if we need to hit the tip jar. Switching hosts alone probably justifies a little blegging.
TW: makes. A shotgun makes a godawful noise when fired in a narrow hallway.
I agree with the 12ga recommendation for home defense:
– the sound of chambering a shell will get a goblins attention.
– hard for a child to handle so less chance of an accident.
– high probability of causing a goblin to be d.r.t. (dead right there).
Home alarm system first, then purchase the gun and a safe simultaneously.
Remington 870 12 gauge pump in right or left hand configuration to suit your situation. No limit to the accessories. You may want to add a Surefire light on the forend.
Above all, BA/UU/R as they say. Buy Ammo, Use Up, Repeat. Join a gun club, get some lessons, and enjoy yourself.
So let me get this straight: an obviously terribly sad and pathetic professor of psychology makes some inexcusable comments over the internet and you feel the need to buy a gun?
Packing a gun to defend yourself against psychology professors – you’re one tough guy.
Good move. Let us know what you get. We want pictuures!
Gun shopping isn’t so easy for me here in New Jersey, so I have to live vicariously.
You simply don’t have the requisite experience with this site, Franky.
You’re embarrassing yourself and you don’t even know it. Kudos!
ooh.. let me play!
Home defense: Winchester 1300 Defender, 18” barrel, 12ga. loaded with 00 (The 870 has more accessories, but the Defender just felt better for me.)
Post Katrina shit-hits-the-fan home defense: Winchester 94 Trapper, .357. This gun gets my vote for several reasons.
It can be used for almost any activity; hunting, self-defense, medium range protection, etc.
Short barrel gives you more control and not a complicated gun to handle, can easily fit in the car or in a backpack (albeit sticking out) and can be brought into action quickly from these positions.
Looks like grandpas wall mounted plinker. This is important. In a Katrina situation it doesn’t matter if you have a shiny bad mofo M4 carbine wrapped around your shoulder if the authorities take it away because it looks too scary. And if the authorities ask to confiscate your weapon, the wise thing to do is to give it up. Its not nearly as likely that a rogue cop will see the lever gun as a major urban threat, yet you will never feel undergunned with it. Grant it, the .44 is probably a better choice, but the versatility of being able to use the .38 sp and the .357, to me, is a bonus.
Ruger GP100: same as the 94 lever-gun above. Easy to handle, solid construction, wont fail when you need it, doesn’t look scary, but you won’t be undergunned with this on your hip.
Put them all together and this makes a good combo protection kit for the house or if you need to throw in the back of the SUV if you need to take off in a jiffy. You need only pack two kinds of ammo (12 ga. and .38 sp or 12 ga. and .357) and the ammo for the Trapper and the Ruger can be interchanged. Use the Defender to protect home base, and pack up the Trapper and Ruger if you need to venture.
Of course, you should also have: First aid kit, foodstuffs, car emergency kit, etc. And by all means, stock up on the M4s, SKS’s, Mausers, etc. But if we need to leave the farm for some reason, lugging an SKS will surely attact more attention from the authorities than the Trapper.
If you’re going to own only one weapon a pistol is better than a shotgun. It at least leaves open the option of taking it to the mall when shopping. I’d avoid the stockless pistol grip shotguns; you’ll notice that almost all military and police shotguns have stocks, unless they’re used for something specialized like shooting off locks. And you do need to aim shotguns; the shot column is only a couple inches wide at indoor distances.
The glocks are inexpensive and reliable. You pull the trigger and they go bang. If you’re into the whole Eurotrash scene the Sig 2XX series pistols are excellent, and if anything even more foolproof than the Glocks. .40 is a good compromise between caliber and magazine capacity.
Get a good flashlight, like a Surefire, at the same time. Most bad things seem to happen at night, and the Surefires are so bright they can temporarily blind the other guy. And get some training and practice. In a stressful situation you will fall back on muscle memory and training.
I’ll second what the others say about a 12ga shoutgun for home defense, but stay away from 00 buck. A better defense round is something like #4 buckshot (not #4 shot). Double-ought will penetrate much more wall diameter.
We have a Mossberg 590 with heat shield and some nice trigger/action-smoothing by a local smithy; whole thing was $350–very nice and compact.
Jeff,
I can only imagine what Ms. Frisch’s neighbors with small children would think if they knew what type of mind and intentions she has. I hope you are pressing charges, because her name needs to start popping up in the national sex offenders listings.
Perhaps the biggest red flag I have is your Denial of Service attacks. This means she and her techie minions, whoever they are, went from merely throwing (horrifying) words around to actually taking aggressive action. This means she means business, and that she’s not just blowing off steam like some intemperate drunk. When you have someone making Jon Binet comments who actively starts messing around with you, you’re entering scary stalker and molester territory. Somehow, she needs to be kept far away from children, and far, far away from you and your family.
I have no legal training, but there must be some way to legally compel her.
Oooboy! Wish I’d got here earlier, but:
1) Shotguns are always good. I wish that “don’t have to aim” urban legend would die, though, all it takes is a large piece of paper and a shooting range to disprove it, but it’s back the next day! At any reasonable range for defensive shooting, the shot pattern will be no larger than your open hand, unless there is something very, very wrong with your gun. Remember also that a shot spread out the size of a whole hallway isn’t going to do much damage compared to the same shot in an area the size of your fist.
I love my Mossberg 590, but be aware that the safety is not only different from other shotguns, but different from just about any gun. It’s easy to miss if you practice with other guns a lot.
Oh, and Sharpshooter: If the 590 is “compact,” I’d like to see something big! It’s the longest gun I have, it’s huge (4 feet long)! But that’s what you get when you want a 9-shot 12-guage. Unless you got a “Cruiser,” and I always wondered why they called that thing a “590” (500 series 9-shot), since it only holds 5 rounds.
In any case, for most situations I don’t recommend a pistol-grip 12-gauge. Backup hunting gun? Sure. Home defense? Not so much.
Have a look at Winchester’s “Marine” model shotguns if your gun is likely to sit for a long time between outings – they’re designed for use around saltwater. The old ones are stainless steel, some newer ones have a flat black coating.
Most pump-action shotguns cost $200-250, the 590 and Winchester Marine models are about $350.
2) Glocks – like ‘em a lot. One thing people often fail to mention is that the polymer frame dampens the recoil impulse, or at least slows it down, so shooting a large-frame .45 Glock feels a lot like shooting a .22. Heck, my 10mm Glock has less recoil than my 9mm Taurus.
Definitely always test-fire a weapon before buying it. Some people’s hands work better with some guns than others – I can’t stand Smiths or Rugers because they don’t sit right, though the Ruger P90 (45) is about one of the best deals ever – cheap and basically indestructible (was designed for a much more powerful round).
I’m a 10mm partisan, but I admit you can’t buy it everywhere. In my mind it combines the best qualities of the .357 Magnum (best percentage stopper ever) with the .45 ACP (heavier bullet and great selection of guns). Be aware that many 10mm loads are “downgraded” to 40 S&W standards, 450 ftlbs or so. A “proper” 10mm has 650-700 ftlbs muzzle energy.
There are specialty loads available over 1000 ftlbs energy.
3) When people ask me which home defense gun they should get, I say 12-gauge. When they ask me what the BEST home defense gun is, I say AR-15.
That’s controversial, but tests show HP 223 ammo is if anything LESS likely to overpenetrate than 12-gauge, and the AR has several advantages, like capacity, range, and MUCH lower recoil. Unfortunately, it also costs 6 times as much.
When they ask, “What should I get if I don’t want training?” I say “A dog.”
Super-Mega Kudos to TheNewGuy : Professional Training, and lots of it. If I could choose one person to back me up, and my two choices were a Navy SEAL with a ruger 10/22 and an untrained random person with a Minimi, I’d chose the SEAL, every time.
Now, you don’t have to get THAT much training, but your skill is probably 90% of the “weapon system.”
Front Sight is good. American Small Arms Academy in Arizona, Cirillo’s in Florida, Lethal Force Institute in New Hampster, Gunsite is still rumored to be good… there are many more – there are some in Colorado but I’m not familiar with them.
Here’s a list…
For home defense, a Mossberg Persuader. I figure if they make it past the English Shepherd, the Bulldog and the shotgun, I may as well just climb out a window and run.
Don’t forget the little woman, if she’s game. It’s sort of romantic to go shooting wth your husband, I can testify.
<blockquote>
When I was dating my wife in the early 70’s, we went shooting a lot. She learned quickly and soon could out shoot me with her .22 rifle. Then we got married. She took the words “till death do you part” literly! When I step out of line, she gives me choices, .44, .45, head or gut. It’s been a very peacfull and quiet 33 years. I start each day with a “Yes dear, it will never happen again.” and all is well.
P.S. I am VERY partial to my old Colt .45 ACP.
Always, always, always. treat every firearm as if it is loaded.Never assume.Ever…………….Ever.
Get qualified instruction.
Personally I prefer a Brownin Citori Lightweight. Or A Winchester 101 pigeon grade for home defense.Both in 12 ga. With 2 3/4 duck loads.
Anybody can shoot a home invader, but not everyone can do it with style.
Still. Nothing gets a persons attention faster than the sound of a round being jacked in the chamber of a 12 ga. pump.
Jeff,
Just found out about your unhinged “guest”, Dr. Frisch. I’m over here on Monaco Pky near Cherry Creek Dr. N. if you ever need assistance. I can get there much faster than the Denver PD.
I would like to offer you some range time at CRC on the thousand yard range. This would be free, professional training in long-range precision marksmanship. I have a couple of match-grade .308’s and manage to crank out enough match ammo to keep me and a guest happy. Of course, the kind of skill I’m describing isn’t much use for CQB, but the principles are the same. You’ll learn to control breathing, manage the effects of pulse, position – and generally just have a good time while learning how to keep it in the 10-ring at 1000. I’m going on an FTX next weekend, but any time after that works for me.
Rick
El Jefe,
Any personal defense strategy should take into account the likely offender. In this case, a female psychology professor with a thing for little boys. So instead of a gun, consider putting industrial quantities of LSD into a jello mold created in the image of a young Macaulay Culkin’s face and leaving it out by the front door. You should be able to bundle her into the trunk of her 1983 Saab 900 pretty easily at that point.
Regards,
Fred
The Mossberg is a good choice, I also recommend the Colt Defender .45 model 90 with the three inch barrel very accurate out to 15 yards with practice and it is a very safe weapon for ammo I would go with 2inch 12 guage buckshot and Federal Hydrashock steel jacketed hollow points in 180 grain both these loads will turn the target into hamburger but not go through walls if fired in the home and if you can get a concealed carry permit the Defender is very easy to conceal.
John Browning was a genius. One of the best minds of the 20th century. That is all you need to know.
One other thing you need to know is the reason that so many police carry double action autos, (like Glocks) is because many PD’s prohibit single action autos. Now, that is all you need to know.
Frankie:
Packing a gun to defend yourself against psychology professors – you’re one tough guy.
Me:
So this particular female psych professor is a Bunny Wabbit Of Peace, blissfully romping in meadows, conversing with unicorns? Negative. She has discovered her inner loon, as have her DDOS-initiating co-conspirators. You want tough? How about seeing the world as it is, not as you wish it to be.
He’s two years old.
Enough said. Now. shut. the. fuck. up.
I can’t stand Smiths or Rugers because they don’t sit right, though the Ruger P90 (45) is about one of the best deals ever – cheap and basically indestructible (was designed for a much more powerful round).
I’m a 10mm partisan, but I admit you can’t buy it everywhere. In my mind it combines the best qualities of the .357 Magnum (best percentage stopper ever) with the .45 ACP (heavier bullet and great selection of guns). Be aware that many 10mm loads are “downgraded†to 40 S&W standards, 450 ftlbs or so. A “proper†10mm has 650-700 ftlbs muzzle energy.
My goblin gun is a Ruger P90, loaded with eight rounds of 230-grain Federal Hydra-Shok goodness. I’ve put 2,000-plus rounds through it since last August with no malfunctions—just the slide locking back the first time I took it out because I was limp-wristing it. I have since discovered the 1911 and it’s become my favorite platform, but for a good non-1911 .45-caliber sidearm, you can hardly beat the Ruger P90. Incidentally, I heard it was designed for the 10mm round, but after the 10 didn’t take off they decided to make a P-Series .45ACP out of it.
I have heard many good things about the 10mm, too; one day in the not-too-distant future I’d like to get one, preferably a Kimber Eclipse Custom II.
I’d like to have seen the 10mm take off, myself. I’ve heard many people call the .40S&W the .”40 Short & Weak.” And compared to a properly loaded 10mm, it certainly looks that way too, even if it is quite a potent round in its own right.
As I mentioned previously, the 1911 .45 is my fav. Just for a little history, the few police and state agencies that carried it in decades past had a hard time getting past the look of the hammer back on a live round. They fielded many complaints, and carrying the weapon with the hammer down on an empty chamber made it useless in a quick confrontation. Any well trained user of the 1911 feels perfectly safe having the weapon carried in level 3 status. As for the average homeowner, the hammer down on a loaded chamber is an acceptable way to store the weapon and have it at the ready very quickly. A good book to read though out of print for some time is Bill Jordan’s “No second place winner”. When he road the boarder on horse back for the Texas Rangers he liked the S&W Mod. 19 in .357. Its a good read from a man that lived to tell about surviving several up close and personal gunfights.