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Substantive Discourse and the loyal opposition

Seems jreid at the ReidBlog isn’t particularly interested in the latest FBI terror arrests—though she is quite interested in those who are:

Here we go. The FBI blow-torch raid and arrests of the Karate Seven down here in South “Flaw-duh” has launched the right wing crazy boat online.

[….] Guys. Take a deep breath. Liberty City is not Peshwar. It’s the hood, man. These are probably some militant brothas working out and doing marshal arts and fancying themseelves revolutionaries. The idea that they had a serious plot going, or that they had any conceivable ties—familial or otherwise—to actual terrorists, is laughable. Prediction: this will go the way of the dirty bomber and the two yokels who were supposed to blow up electrical transformers in South Florida but wound up trying to buy a couple of AK-47s with a bad credit card.

…Because really, the idea that a bunch of ‘hood negroes are capable of more than watching old Jim Kelly movies and playing pretend revolutionary?  That’s just crazy talk!  The black man is naturally lazy and shiftless, you see—and so his threats are idle ones, even when they come dressed in starched white Karate gear and tied up nicely with a cloth blackbelt bow.

Alas, what J Reid seemed to miss, in her eagerness to brush this off as insignificant, is that the group of “brothas” had no real ties to al Qaeda because the part of al Qaeda was played by undercover federal agents. Does that mean the silly “brothas” didn’t pose a threat?  Well, thankfully, that’s now a moot question.  But here’s the latest from CNN, which lays out the case from the perspective of law enforcement:

A federal indictment against seven men revealed Friday details of what the government said was a plan to “kill all the devils we can” by blowing up Chicago’s Sears Tower.

The “jihad” was intended to be “as good or greater than 9/11,” beginning with destruction of the 110-story tower and FBI buildings, according to court documents obtained Friday by CNN.

Meh. Maybe Reid is right. They were probably no more dangerous than, say, Timmy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.  Even less so, in fact—their being ‘hood negroes and all; presumably it’s hard to bring down the Sears Tower when you’re drunk on 40 oz. Colt 45s.

Still, in her next dismissal of this whole ridiculous war on terror (and the federal law enforcement idiots pretending to fight it), Reid might want to rethink using dirty bomb suspect Jose Padilla as an example of some low level (bean-eater?) patsy playing revolutionary.  Or maybe she just needs to alert Townhouse that it’s time to update the talking points database.

At any rate, Reid can be forgiven.  After all, she has her marching orders.  And when the Kossacks tell you to play the race angle, you play the race angle!  You know—for the unified message and the people-powered movement and all that.  Besides, when the moon is in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligns with Mars, that means blacks are being unfairly targeted by the Man.  Or that the Fifth Dimension is doing a reunion tour, I’m not sure which.  The stars, they can be quite coy at times.

Meanwhile, in other reality-based news, the Huffington Post in its daily brief blares the following headline in 50 pt font:  “Bank Data Secretly Reviewed By Bush Admin. Without Warrants Or Subpoenas…”

Warrants?  Subpoenas?  These people are joking, right?  Does the IRS need subpoenas? 

And isn’t the whole point made moot by the fact that we’re doing monitoring outside the country? 

Ankle Biting Pundits ask:

Can anyone tell me why this program is a matter of public interest? The monitoring is done overseas, and does not involve monitoring purely domestic transactions (although I wouldn’t see the problem if it did). An outside auditor was hired to safeguard against abuses, and under International Emergency Economic Powers Act, the President had the “investigate, regulate or prohibit” foreign transactions in responding to “an unusual and extraordinary threat.”

I can answer that. 

Scandal-mongering is all that’s left to folks like the Huffington crowd, who (ironically) have even taken to banning their own whistleblowers, even as they celebrate those who leak classified information on legal programs meant to protect us from real threats (Hambali, the mastermind of the Bali bombings, was nabbed using this program, for instance).

And all because they are petulant children who desire power above all else—and will do anything they can to regain it.  If that means creating a constant atmosphere of scandal and hoping to pin it to the President, well, than that’s what they’ll do.

National security?  Feh.  What are the chances of getting killed in a terror attack, anyway?  And besides—even should we be attacked again, they have that base covered:  Bush didn’t shore up the ports, and his illegal war in Iraq created the terrorists who now wish to do us harm.

It’s all a rhetorical game.  Unless you find yourself forced forced to choose between burning to death or jumping from the smoldering remains of a tall building, I mean…

****

update:  I’m not sure what astrological configuration prompted it, but Kos and the Townhouse crew have handed down the official people-powered talking points on yesterday’s terror arrests:

Kudos to law enforcement officials for discovering the alleged plot before it could be implemented. Yet today’s news from Afghanistan and Florida reminds us that terrorists are thriving in nations where we prematurely declared victory, and they are thriving among us on our own soil as well. Stubbornly remaining in the quicksands of Iraq will not protect us from terrorists here and abroad. And no spin from from the Vice-President can conceal that sad fact.

Translation:  “There is no way to fight terrorism, so let’s see if we can’t get Mark Warner elected.  Whaddya say?  Who’s up for a donation?”

Wonder if the Reid Report got the email…

(h/t LGF, who points out that CAIR is already asking for protection against the backlash from all us potential wingnut Ayrab stompers)

****

update 2:  Showy notes JReid is a she.  Post adjusted to conform to conventional standards of gendered pronoun usage.

89 Replies to “Substantive Discourse and the loyal opposition”

  1. Seems to me this strongly suggests that it is not just a happy accident that there haven’t been any further attacks on US soil since 9/11, the Jeep Jihadi, etc., notwithstanding.

    Turing Word: again, as in, never again.

  2. jdm says:

    “The Karate Seven”…

    I like that. A fun and funny name – cuz like, geez, man, chill, they was jus’ funnin’ ya all.

  3. Mark says:

    Yet today’s news from Afghanistan and Florida reminds us that terrorists are thriving in nations where we prematurely declared victory

    Since when did we invade Florida, or is this some lingering bitterness from the 2000 election?

    IF GORE WOULD HAVE WON, TERRORISTS WOULD NOT BE PLOTTING IN FLORIDA!!!!

  4. mojo says:

    “CAIR worried about anti-muj backlash from next Tuesday’s bombing” is it?

    That shit never gets old, man.

  5. Vercingetorix says:

    Its the backlash, man, or was it the backwash…whatever.

  6. Mikey NTH says:

    We prematurely declared victory in Florida?  When was that, 1865?

    “There is no terrorism, it is all made up by the BusHitler, and if an attack does occur it is Chimpy’s fault.”

    No, no cognitive dissonance there at all.

  7. Major John says:

    If I hadn’t played my last rugby match 9 months ago, I would swear that I had suffered a concussion recently.  There is just no way I can be reading what I think I am reading.

    Pleasepleaseplease tell me this is an elborate parody – Jeff G., Burge and Ott (maybe with help from Frank J and Bill) whipped up while quaffing a few Belgian ales.  Please.

    I so want a, um, sane political opposition in this country.

  8. Big E says:

    Let’s start a pool.  I’ve got 12:15pm CST today for when Sadly!Noshit or some other retarblog pulls some quotes from this post out of context and uses them to accuse Jeff of racism. 

    The winner doesn’t get shit (at least from me) but he/she will have the same general sense of accomplishment one gets when you close your eyes, throw a dart at the dartboard and hit a bullseye.

  9. Crank says:

    Jeff, as Abe Lincoln would put it, I need to find out what variety of paste you eat so I can send a jar to everyone on my blogroll.

  10. Kirk says:

    Yet today’s news from Afghanistan and Florida reminds us that terrorists are thriving in nations where we prematurely declared victory, and they are thriving among us on our own soil as well. Stubbornly remaining in the quicksands of Iraq will not protect us from terrorists here and abroad.

    Maybe it is just me, but I think it quite odd that the left has chosen yesterday’s news item of a broken domestic terrorist cell in which to propose that we aren’t being protected from domestic terrorist cells.

  11. Showy says:

    Quick tip, Jeff.  JReid is a she, not a he.

  12. Idfaciam says:

    Maybe it is just me, but I think it quite odd that the left has chosen yesterday’s news item of a broken domestic terrorist cell in which to propose that we aren’t being protected from domestic terrorist cells.

    It’s a tard thing—you wouldn’t understand.

  13. nobody importatn says:

    Ah, the soft bigotry of low expectations.

  14. Brian says:

    Quick tip, Jeff.  JReid is a she, not a he.

    Can Jeff get a pass on this one, since the Kossack-network bloggers tend to be asexual?

  15. tongueboy says:

    Stubbornly remaining in the quicksands of Iraq will not protect us from terrorists here and abroad. And no spin from from the Vice-President can conceal that sad fact.

    Let me see if I have this straight: either there are no terrorists in Iraq or Iraq is a moon colony. Or maybe an orbiting wildlife refuge sans Bruce Dern. This chick is tardlarious.

  16. tanstaafl says:

    <i>Prediction: this will go the way of the dirty bomber

    José converted to Islam, left his “wifeperson” (in Fla. as a matter of fact), went to Egypt and married a good Islamic girl (had 2 boys), travelled to Pakistan/points east for some training.  Wound up nabbed in…Chicago ?…coming home to pay a visit to “mom” (sure)…

  17. Jeff Goldstein says:

    Showy —

    Noted and corrected.

  18. McGehee says:

    It’s a tard thing—you wouldn’t understand.

    I’m sure Mr. Mxyzptlk can help with that.

  19. Lo Ping Wong says:

    “If that means creating a constant atmosphere of scandal and hoping to pin it to the President, well, than that’s what they’ll do.”

    What does that remind me of? Geez, I can’t think of it right now, but MAN that’s familiar. Oh well, it’ll come to me GOT IT!  Congressional republicans during the entire eight year presidency of Bill Clinton is what that reminds me of. Henry Cisneros, Whitewater, “Travelgate,” {snicker} Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, Juanita Broaderick {snicker}. Yeah, good times, good times.

  20. Rob B. says:

    Miami? The NBA finals were just there, why attack Chicago when you had a world wide audience built in in you’re own city?

    Retards.

  21. Lo Ping Wong: after all, it’s not like there was anything to the accusations that dogged Henry Cisneros or Bill Clinton.  But, believe it or not, most of us didn’t regard them as good times.

    Turing Word: fire, as in (knowing Jeff’s love of all things Joel), we didn’t start the fire.

  22. cynn says:

    These guys really don’t sound like the brightest bulbs. They had to ask for boots and uniforms?!  What respectable homegrown terrorist doesn’t go to alqaeda.com first thing and order their own, complete with embroidered baseball cap?  But seriously, I wonder how they hooked up with this undercover operative.

  23. Lo Ping Wong says:

    Excellent point. One would think, if those allegations were ture, there might have been at least one indictment during those eight years. No one in the Clinton administration was ever indicted, so it does seem more likely that those “scandals” were concocted to impede the president.

  24. Lo Ping Wong says:

    ’ture’ = true

  25. Lo Ping Wong says:

    “most of us didn’t regard them as good times”

    Yes, peace and prosperity are so boring. War and deficits are better.

  26. There is just no way I can be reading what I think I am reading.

    Sigh, if only.  The left is crazier than a bunch of shithouse rats anymore.

    Question is, just how dangerous can they become?  We already have the NYTimes doing its very damndest to get us all killed…

    tw: trouble.  That’s putting it mildly…

  27. Lo Ping Wong says:

    “We already have the NYTimes doing its very damndest to get us all killed…”

    You’re high. Rational people can’t really believe that crap, right?

  28. Bald Eagle says:

    Quick tip, Jeff.  Kos is a he/she, not a he.

  29. Lo Ping Wong says:

    “but Kos and the Townhouse crew have handed down the official people-powered talking points on yesterday’s terror arrests”

    LOL! Good one. The left gets its marching orders from Markos like the right gets their talking points from the Republican party. Oh. Sorry. That part’s not a joke.

  30. Neville Chamberlain says:

    Yes, peace and prosperity are so boring. War and deficits are better.

    I couldn’t agree more.

  31. ahem says:

    lo:

    One critical error you’re making here is assuming that the only people who hated Clinton were the Republicans. I voted for Clinton–may lightening strike me–and I grew to despise him for turning out to be such a dishonorable human being.

    I don’t have to completely agree with my president–frankly, I used to believe the parties balanced each other out pretty nicely over the years (with a couple exceptions)–but I do have to respect him. You’d think that for 4 years, Clinton could operate like an honorable man for the sake of the office, but he’s too much in thrall to his own personality defects. And he’s an absolute liar, which I fell for.

    Oh, and I voted for Gore, too. But I could live with Bush who, it turns out, appears to have been the right man for the job. I proudly voted for him last time. He’s going to emerge as on of the finest presidents in our history.

    Over the last few years, I’ve been studying the real philosophical bases of the parties, have cast off my naivete, and have come to realize that the old liberal Dems have relinquished the field to the marxists. So now I’m a Republican, which is the only party now offering shelter to those with a traditional liberal bent.

    cynn: you ought to see the AQ team jacket: there’s no opening for a head!

  32. Karl says:

    Funny that Lo Ping Wong mentioned Henry Cisneros, because he was a member of the Clinton Administration and was indicted and convicted.  So was Webb Hubbell.  Mike Espy was indicted but acquitted.  So there’s three off the top of my head.  But facts aren’t really a strong suit with the Los of the world.

  33. Merovign says:

    Lo Ping Wong has an amazing skill – it carries its echo chamber with it everywhere it goes!

    Ya know, it could save time by posting all its talking points in one post.

    Though I thought the “marching orders” post was particularly ironic.

  34. JohnAnnArbor says:

    Excellent point. One would think, if those allegations were ture, there might have been at least one indictment during those eight years. No one in the Clinton administration was ever indicted, so it does seem more likely that those “scandals” were concocted to impede the president.

    Webb Hubbell wasn’t just INDICTED, he was JAILED during the administration.

  35. Karl says:

    And then there was that guy who was impeached and disbarred… what was his name again?

  36. Don’t you see?  When we fight terrorism with war, it’s wrong because we should be using police work and intelligence.  When we use police work and intelligence it’s wrong because we’re violating civil rights and being racist!

    Why don’t these people just come out and say “don’t fight terrorism, we like them” for crying out loud.

  37. mojo says:

    Shouldn’t it be “Wong Lo Ping?”

    Ai ya, hwai luh!

  38. tanstaafl says:

    Don’t you see?  When we fight terrorism with war, it’s wrong because we should be using police work and intelligence.  When we use police work and intelligence it’s wrong because we’re violating civil rights and being racist!

    Why don’t these people just come out and say “don’t fight terrorism, we like them” for crying out loud.

    And the truth shall set you free wink

  39. oblomov says:

    Brilliant essay, Jeff.

    Turing word: too, as in:

    “I, Markos, will get you, Chimpy, and your little dog too!!”

  40. Lo Ping Wong says:

    “Webb Hubbell wasn’t just INDICTED, he was JAILED during the administration.”

    Yes, Dr. Von Braun? And which position did Hubbell occupy in the Clinton Administration, hmmmmmm?

  41. capt joe says:

    That’s because Lo Ping gets the Kos radio talking points thru his teeth.  That and Armstrongs daily astrology reports and stock tips off course.

  42. The_Real_JeffS says:

    “Lo Ping Wong” is a fine blogname, but it is awfully close to “Lo Ping Wrong

    Coincidence?  I think not.

  43. nobody important says:

    And just who do you think those devils are?

    Why, you, white boy!

    Sounds like a hate crime to me.

  44. McGehee says:

    It’s a tard thing—you wouldn’t understand.

    I’m sure Mr. Mxyzptlk can help with that.

    Posted by McGehee | permalink

    on 06/23 at 11:54 AM

    Or, y’know, somebody.

    Posted by Lo Ping Wong | permalink

    on 06/23 at 11:59 AM

    Bingo!

  45. Karl says:

    Or maybe she just needs to alert Townhouse that it’s time to update the talking points database.

    Nah, the partisan jornalists from the Townhouse were at the press conference this morning, to judge by the questions, which all tended to be different renditions of “How is this a big deal?” and “Why do they hate us?”

  46. Lo Ping Wong says:

    “Shouldn’t it be “Wong Lo Ping?”

    Maybe so, but it originates from my online gaming days, when Low Ping was the most important thing.

    “Henry Cisneros, because he was a member of the Clinton Administration and was indicted and convicted”

    But Cisneros resigned 11 months before he was indicted.

    Espy resigned and was indicted FOUR YEARS later. Webb Hubbell never served the Clinton administration in any capacity. Unlike Bush, no member of the Clinton administration was indicted.

  47. Hitch Dawg says:

    Ya crazy crackers,

    Don’t you know them brothas was only practicing their parts for that new Spike Lee Joint remake movie called the Mohammed 7? Where 7 righteous brothas protect the hood from the white devils insisting on perp’tratin’ the rights of the black man and keepin’ a brotha down! Everyone knows that bombing the Sears Tower is street slang for baking cookies an’ expressin’ their man love, you Broke Back hatin’ Mothas. Hell, the brotha’s were forced to work at night and live in a warehouse because of Haliburton and the fact that the Diebold corporation stole the ‘lection from Gore and forced all who are keeping it real, unda’grund like. Leave it to the man to start pros’cutin’ any black man trying to get his, yaknow watcha ‘msayin? Don’t hate the playas.

    Peace Dawgs I’m y’out

    Chip “Hitch Dawg” Hitchens Fargo, ND

  48. Lo Ping Wong says:

    I was wrong about Hubbell:

    Hubbell was appointed as associate attorney general; he was generally considered the third most powerful person in the Justice Department.

    But he plead guilty to crimes committed BEFORE he was a member of the Clinton administration. By all counts, the Clinton administration has been more ethical than Bush’s.

  49. The_Real_JeffS says:

    Yes, Dr. Von Braun? And which position did Hubbell occupy in the Clinton Administration, hmmmmmm?

    Webb Hubbell was appointed to the Justice Department as an associate attorney general, but resigned in 1994.

    I can’t find if Clinton appointed him or not, but he had a close working relationship with Hillary Clinton prior to Bill Clinton’s election in 1992.

    Facts.  Don’t they just suck, Lo Ping Wrong?

  50. PMain says:

    no member of the Clinton administration was indicted.

    Neither was Rove, Bush or Rumsfield, so they aren’t guilty as well, right Lo Ping Wong?

  51. The_Real_JeffS says:

    My bad, Lo Ping, you caught that one about Hubbell.

    But I see you are claiming that anyone who committed crimes before joining the Clintons in Washington, or resigned before being indicted.

    Which means past associations of low character aren’t a problem for any Administration?  Or if that you resign, the Administration is clear of any wrong doing?

    Just asking.

  52. Lo Ping Wong says:

    No, I’m part of the reality based community. I like facts, and the fact is, no Clinton administration appointee was ever indicted for crimes committed in office. Unlike the Bush admin.

  53. The_Real_JeffS says:

    But I see you are claiming that anyone who committed crimes before joining the Clintons in Washington, or resigned before being indicted clears the Clinton Administration of any taint of corruption.

    My bad—omitted the bolded text.

  54. Lo Ping Wong says:

    “But I see you are claiming that anyone who committed crimes before joining the Clintons in Washington, or resigned before being indicted.’

    My point is, the Clinton administration was probed relentlessly for eight years, and they came up with three guys, two of whom did something wrong before they ever worked for the President, and the other guy was acquitted. By the standards we operated on 10 years ago, the Clinton administration was more ethical than the one in office now.

  55. The_Real_JeffS says:

    I like facts, and the fact is, no Clinton administration appointee was ever indicted for crimes committed in office. Unlike the Bush admin.

    Maybe, if you squint really hard, and ignore the fact that people who were in the Clinton Administrsation at one time or another were indicted and CONVICTED of various crimes.  As opposed to merely indicted for crimes that may not have happened.  Or were simply indicted in the press and blogosphere.

    But that’s OK, we can deal with that.  The reality is, there’s no scandal in indicting a bunch of people for terrorism.

    Even if they do live in the ‘hood.

  56. Old Dad says:

    Lo Ping,

    Indicted or impeached, disbarred, and fined?

  57. Phil Smith says:

    What does any of this bullshit have to do with the morons in Florida?

    Jesus, Ping Pong comes in and tosses out a childish tu quoque and completely derails the thread.  Focus, dammit.

  58. The_Real_JeffS says:

    By the standards we operated on 10 years ago, the Clinton administration was more ethical than the one in office now.

    Perhaps.  On the other hand, who changed those standards (if changed they were)?  A President who was impeached and disbarred for lying under oath, maybe?

  59. Well, maybe the jury’s still out on Sandy Berger and whatever else he may have stuffed down his pants, with the purest intentions, of course.

    For you self-proclaimed “reality-based” folks, the absence of an indictment is not evidence of of the absence of indictable offenses. My guess is that Janet Reno was rather slow about bringing any action against anyone in the Clinton administration while they were in the Clinton administration, but your mileage may vary.

    And while we’re at it, let’s not mention Billy Dale, or the “lost” FBI records, or Waco, or Vicki Weaver, or …

    Turing Word: society, as in, I blame society for the rampant moronism we are witnessing today.

  60. The_Real_JeffS says:

    Jesus, Ping Pong comes in and tosses out a childish tu quoque and completely derails the thread.  Focus, dammit.

    True, Phil.  Wrong Lo Ping probably doesn’t like the fact that the corrupt Bush Administration might have actually found terrorists in the United States.

    You know—it makes Bush look effective, or even (whisper it)…..right.

  61. rwilymz says:

    Not to mention, Wong, but Clinton’s travails with his sad trail of jilted conquests and near-conquests was not the doing of the Republicans.  G.H.W.Bush and Dole [et al] did not hire bimbos to follow Clinton around, coerce him into compromising positions, and slap lawsuits on him.

    Big Bill did that all on his own.  And, as with Nixon trying to dodge complicity in his administration’s de rigeuer sneakiness, it ain’t the action, it’s the cover-up.  So-o-o-o-o much would have been avoided if he’d dropped “not” from his legacy quote:

    “I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky!”

    Please stop rationalizing.  Folks who can’t admit uncomfortable truth when it bites their own subjective asses are difficult to believe when the shoe’s on the other foot.

  62. Kevin B says:

    “We already have the NYTimes doing its very damndest to get us all killed…”

    You’re high. Rational people can’t really believe that crap, right?

    Yeah, the NYT was just pissed cos the checks from the Saudi “charity” were held up.

  63. MarkD says:

    To try to jack this thread back on course, what’s with the CAIR statement? 

    Real muslims wouldn’t attack innocent people?  You can’t hit back?

    I will pretend to care as soon as they begin loudly condemning the radicals in their midst.  Until then, I won’t even try to fake it. 

    TW:  groups – one I can live without.

  64. Showy says:

    No, I’m part of the reality based community.

    Holy crap, I didn’t realize people actually referred to themselves as that, I thought it was merely a term of mockery in the center-right blogs.

  65. Slartibartfast says:

    Actually, I think it’s based in mathematics.  Those in the reality-based community creep closer and closer to reality, and just when they think they’ve gotten there, they’re reset to zero.

  66. Karl says:

    Well, we’ve changed the standard back.  Now Scooter Libby can be charged with lying to a grand jury, because Bush is the President now.

    But Mark D is right.  Lo has been shown to have gotten the point on indictment wrong, had to correct on Webb Hubbell and ignores all other incovenient facts.  Not the least of which is that, ethics aside, Bill C admitted on tape that he could have had bin Laden three times and took a pass.  So let’s get the thread back on track.

    As far as the emerging Townhouse talking point that this was not a big deal is concerned, I actually aggre, despite the fact that I live near the Sears Tower.  And if we stop a few folks with boxcutters from boarding planes, it’s just arresting a few dopes with boxcutters.  That’s what pre-emption is—stopping things before they ripen into big attacks.

  67. Slartibartfast: I think you’re right about it being mathematics related, but it’s kind of like what happens as mass approaches the speed of light.  The denominator is the square root of 1 minus the reality-based factor squared.  The closer they get to unity the denser they become.

    Turing Word: hard, as in, this physics stuff is hard.

  68. B Moe says:

    Anyone who can try to use Clinton and ethical in the same sentence after the quite public raping of Elian Gonzales is an amoral partisan scumbag unworthy of engaging.  The fact that there were no indictments or disbarments over that abortion of the judicial system is proof of how deep the corruption truly was in that administration.

  69. tongueboy says:

    What does that remind me of? Geez, I can’t think of it right now, but MAN that’s familiar. Oh well, it’ll come to me GOT IT!  Congressional republicans during the entire eight year presidency of Bill Clinton is what that reminds me of. Henry Cisneros, Whitewater, “Travelgate,” {snicker} Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, Juanita Broaderick {snicker}. Yeah, good times, good times.

    Time for some more thread derailing…President Bush may have many faults but I’ve not heard that misogyny is one of them. You may draw your own conclusion as to whether I am referring to President Clinton, Mr. Wong, or both….

  70. narciso79 says:

    On the Afghan and Florida parallel; well they “were both thefts by crazy cowboys; James Monroe, 1819, Dubya 2001;” Seriously, There was even a tome by one of the seemingly saner CIA

    ‘dissidents” Joseph Burkolder Smith entitled Madison’s War or some such title, about the Effort; making broad allusions to Chile and the Bay of Pigs. These people are just slightly crazier than the Esquire boys, who chose to showcase Suleiman Faris; aka Hamza aka John Walker Lindh, in their men of theyear issue; What Scott Petersen and O.J. weren’t available

  71. B Moe says:

    …the Esquire boys, who chose to showcase Suleiman Faris; aka Hamza aka John Walker Lindh, in their men of theyear issue…

    I saw that piece, I made it to the paragraph that started with the sentence: “John Walker Lindh is a better man than you.”

    It only took two words to tell the editors what I thought of that.

  72. Karl says:

    Here are some of the questions asked at the press conference:

    QUESTION: What can you tell us about the cooperating informants, the one who posed as an al Qaeda representative? How was he known to the members of the plot?

    QUESTION: I guess the key question becomes, we know that the FBI and law enforcement is trying to be proactive, in front of these types of things. But exactly who was doing the initiating here I guess is the question. Did they request these materials, or did the informant initiate that part of this alleged plot?

    QUESTION: Well, a logical follow-up to that then is, why would a group of men of seemingly different ethnic backgrounds—I’m not the names expert or whatever on this—why would they get together? What do they have against the United States? Why would they pledge allegiance to al Qaeda?

    QUESTION: The charges mostly surround providing material support to al Qaeda. It looks like these guys were actually asking for material support form what they thought was al Qaeda. These guys couldn’t buy boots on their own? They don’t sound like very sophisticated or, you know, effective operators.

    QUESTION: May I ask you a question about the charging decision? As a legal matter, and following up on one of my colleague’s questions, they’re charged with providing material support for a terrorist organization, namely, al Qaeda, even though there was no actual connection to al Qaeda. Can you explain a little bit the basis of that charge if there was no connection to al Qaeda?

    QUESTION: I’m just curious about this meeting that occurred on December 16th, the initial meeting. Was that prompted by the informant or was it prompted by Batiste?

    Shorter MSM:

    “Will you reveal sources and methods?”

    “So, did you entrap these guys?”

    “So, what’s the big deal?”

    “Why do they hate us?”

    As is often the case, you learn more from the questions than from the answers.

  73. Excellent point. One would think, if those allegations were ture, there might have been at least one indictment during those eight years. No one in the Clinton administration was ever indicted, so it does seem more likely that those “scandals” were concocted to impede the president.

    Uh, say what?

    You really think we’ve got short enough memories you think we’re going to buy that?

  74. Miami? The NBA finals were just there, why attack Chicago when you had a world wide audience built in in you’re own city?

    The largest erection in the US.

    Penis envy.

    Edifice complex.

  75. Rational people can’t really believe that crap, right?

    You’ll never know.

  76. The media’s usual handling of this kind of case reminds me of one of the best quotes I’ve read in the last 10 years, from Ace:

    “Is it just me, or is your first reaction after turning on the news and hearing someone say ‘We must try harder to understand Islam’ to wonder, ‘Oh God, what did they blow up now?’”

    I see deflection is one of the dearest tactics of the left still.  Sad, but what do they have left?  “I know I’m wrong but… uh, Bush LIed!!!!!1!!”

    Like children you take a toy away from.

  77. klrfz1 says:

    Hey Lo Ping Wong,

    Jessie Macbeth!

    tw: went

    Lo Ping Wong never went there.

  78. Big E says:

    The latest from Reidblog in response to a being asked for her comprehensive plan for fighting terrorism.

    OK Ross, here’s my plan: brace yourself because it’s really complex … ignore the cranks practicing kick boxing and playing commando in the hood, stop wiretapping the entire customer base of AT&T and BellSouth mining for god knows what, quit sending Mueller to Larry King Live, and go after al-Qaida … in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I know that’s a lot for you to handle.

    … OMG but I’m still rolling over these guys supposedly being secretly tied to Middle Easterners and Puerto Rican terrorists. That’s funny stuff. I love right wingers.

    JReid | 06.23.06 – 6:22 pm | #

    Pure gold leftist nonsense.  I also greatly enjoy the haughty, superior tone which assumes great mental accumen on her part while she simultaneously writes some of the stupidest shit I ever read.

  79. narciso79 says:

    God allmighty, how do you think we do this; we intercept financial transaction data like with

    “Hambali” (side note: what kind of a pompous

    !@#!#@$#@$$% would name himself after one of

    the leading religious schools; would we have

    someone calling themselves Baptist or Pres

    byterian: Or you take over a financial

    institution, as they did with the Gordon Gekko

    of jihadi finance; UAE’s Paracha Wazir (and the

    UAE did turn him over to that) We don’t traipsing

    through the design district in Peshawar; shooting

    up shopkeepers willy nilly; because as was said in

    another context;” You’re liable to bounce off a

    supernova or crash into a black hole”. Of course

    thanks to Lichtblau,Risen, et al; we’ll be blind

    as a bat; although small conselation; the “OLd

    Grey Lady” might be an ashen memory, along with

    a large part of the Upper East Side of Manhattan

  80. kinda purple says:

    She’s absolutely f-ing brilliant.  Let’s just take over Pakistan.

    Sure, let’s withdraw, err, uh, redeploy all our national security resources currently investigating homegrown and other potential terrorist threats so that they can help de-stablize an Islamic nuclear power whose government and military are filled with Islamofascists itching to take over and just waiting for someone to light the fuse.

    Way to think things through, Einstein.

  81. docob says:

    Jeff, as Abe Lincoln would put it, I need to find out what variety of paste you eat so I can send a jar to everyone on my blogroll.

    Beautiful!!!

    grin

  82. NCVOL says:

    I believe the Huffington Post headline is wrong.  Even the NYT story itself says that subpoenas were used by the Treasury Department to get the financial records from SWIFT. 

    And WRT the comparative ethical nature of the Bush vs. Clinton administrations, as judged by the number of indictments while in office, it seems to me that for the Bush admin you have a vice presidential aide indicted for perjury, and with the Clinton admin you have the President himself impeached for perjury.  How this makes the Clinton administration more ethical than the Bush one is beyond me.

  83. Jon Swift says:

    Anyone who remembers Madonna wannabes of the 1980s knows that wannabe terrorists can be just as dangerous as the real thing.

  84. Squatch says:

    Good garsh, Jeff. If you’re gonna have trolls, at least have good ones… Lo Ding Dong? Notsomuch. I’ve seen Kostards break off a good one better than this guy. That’s not sayin’ a whole lot…

    TW: coming. Uh…. heheheheheheh….

  85. Dr. Zirus says:

    Anyone care to wager about the composition of the jury for the Florida 7? How many JReids will be sitting on it?

    They’ll walk. They were set up by the Man you see.

  86. MayBee says:

    last month’s meme: Stop racial profiling! It unfairly targets brown people, and not all terrorists are middle easterners!

    todays meme: these guys couldn’t possibly be terrorists! They aren’t even brown middle easterners!

  87. McGehee says:

    I want to thank Drew Ping Wong for coming to the rescue to try to help us all understand the “tard thing,” what with Mr. Mxyzptlk MIA and all.

  88. Rusty says:

    ” My administration will be the most ethical adminstrastion ever to occupy the White House”

    William Jefferson Clinton 1992

    LOL. Oh my. LOL That never gets old.

    Sorry. Go on back to what you were doing.

  89. McGehee says:

    I guess “is” isn’t the only word he had trouble defining.  wink

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